I'm a bit surprised no one has yet to mention the fact Susan Golding is the chair for Phase II of the MLPA implementation. That fact alone would stop most sane & self-respecting citizens from giving the MLPA any credence...
I'm a bit surprised no one has yet to mention the fact Susan Golding is the chair for Phase II of the MLPA implementation. That fact alone would stop most sane & self-respecting citizens from giving the MLPA any credence...
You mentioned viable population....I was simply addressing that.
The point is I was just adding to the conversation and agreeing with you on the fact that the ESA needs to be updated. You didnt miss anything. Sounds like I did.
But for the record. ANY species going extinct is a tragedy. All species have intrinsic value. To lose any is a huge loss in itself.
"intrinsic value"
Thats were I disagree. Does a cockroach or termite have intrinsic value? What you consider value I, and many others, (maybe even the majority of the population ) may consider pests.
Biologist can write reports all they want, come up with all those foo foo names but it dosn't change the fact that this is a weed that serves little or no purpose. No one would mis it if it was gone.
To stop, hinder, or restrict maintenance of a flood control channel is insane for a population of ten weeds or anything else for that matter. Are those 10 weeds worth the lives of thousands of people down stream? or do humans have any instrisnic value? Protecting weeds is just a small example of what is wrong with the ESA.
Unless you had the exact parameters to do the research & did the research yourself how could you possibly stand by the bold underlined statement?
All this information that you're throwing about being a marine biologist that knows his info inside and out is making me dizzy and probably many of the guys on here too. Why don't you go ahead and scan your PHD certificate in Marine Biology then post it here so all us skeptics can at least begin to think that you know your stuff & possibly help the phantom cause you are pursuing!
They can move those 10 weeds into my backyard if it's going to open up a thousand new jobs. I'm sure the weeds would thrive with the rest of thousand back there.
Breeze, listen to me, and Ill use small words to make sure you understand: Someone insinuated that I didnt know what I was talking about. I simply provided my credentials in education....which apparently you missed as I never said I was a marine biologist. I do, however, hold an M.S. in Conservation Biology and now I am doing PhD work in the same field. Which happens to make me qualified to discuss this thread while a hater like yourself was probably not even in the same state.
Terry C disagrees with what has intrinsic value. I can understand that. At least I can respect that even if I dont agree with him. You, on the other hand, are looking to discredit me without bieng armed with any facts at all. My data comes from published, peer reviewed, scientific journals. Journals that you must subscribe to in order to access, so do yourself a favor and dont bother to ask what they are.
Im trying to make this a positive thread. You seem to be upset because you dont understand some of the terminology Im using. Thats not my fault. Your making it difficult. If you dont have anything constructive to say. Just leave. If you have anything mean to say to me, please do it by P.M.
One more thing. Dont you EVER change my font size in a quote from me again in an attempt to make me look like Im yelling. Thats cowardly and stupid. Did you think I didnt notice?
Now go mow your backyard.
Kthxbye
Last edited by Stormcrow; 05-16-2008 at 07:20 PM.
Yes, I do believe that a termite and a cockroach have intrinsic value. We all might think, myself included, that both species are pests, which they are. However, neither of us understand the depth of evolution in its entirety and both termites and cockroaches fill a niche in their ecosystems on a level that we may not completely grasp. I would never be so arrogant as to think that because I have to use Raid from time to time that Earth would be better off without cockroaches and termites.
Stormcrow...I will always disagree with that argument. I do realize some species effect the ecosystem more than others. Species that are listed as endangered have minimal effect on the ecosystem. In other words, the effects on the ecosystem has already occurred or has ran its coarse.
The divide is what to do or how to handle it. To invoke a general closure of a area or restrict activity or development for an infinite amount of time lacks common sense in most cases.
Most of the time, in the biological report, it list a whole host of reasons that may have contributed to the species degradation. That same list of reasons may not have contributed to the species degradation as well.
The closure of public or State land should never be left up to a agency that dose not answer to the electorate. All public closures should be required to pass a standards test prior to closure for the protection of a species.
This standards test should be required to have legislative approval and mandated funding to restore the species to a sustainable number that can survive the historical activity that occurs in the area.
If this can not be accomplished or the legislature does not list or fund the recovery then the species and its habitat should not warrant any further protection or restricted use.
The legislature should be responsible for closures not an agencies administrators that might fall prey to outside influences or favor a special interest agenda. Keep in mind these species and there habitats do not belong to any agency, any biologist, any enviromentalist group, or a off road group. They belong to the people. Agencies do not answer to the people...the legislature does.