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Thread: Bataan Death March at Irvine Lake

  1. #1

    Default Bataan Death March at Irvine Lake

    Before I talk about the trip, I want to explain what a Bataan Death March is all about. (I've lost several Cheeseburger bets in recent weeks about what that means) I thought everybody knew what a Bataan Death March is. Boy was I wrong on that one. (let me explain) Right after Pearl Harbor the Japanese invaded the Philippines and was meet by 100,000 American and Philippine troops. They retreated back to the Bataan Peninsula and fought a defensive battle for months. They were awaiting reinforcements from the United States that never came! So they eventually had to surrender. The Japanese marched 70,000 troops 50 miles to prison camps. If you couldn't make the walk in the blazing heat with no water. The Japanese shot you or bayoneted you to death! 20,000 troops died on this journey! So any physical task or long hike that is very vigorous, can be called an Bataan Death march! (the other term that came out of the battle was, "I shall return" but that's for another day's History lesson) Coach Phil Jackson of the Lakers used that expression all the time. (Bataan Death March) So I thought it was a term everybody should know what it means! Nope only 1 of my friends knew what the meaning was when I asked them about it. Everyone who has fished Irvine Lake since they reopened last year, knows you have to walk to your fishing spots. Many of my friends "Whine" about the walk! It's usually 3/4 of a mile walk to get to a good spot! It's a pretty flat walk so it's no big deal to me! I am 61 and a Big guy and carry 3 fishing poles, a net, a chair on my back and a Home Depot orange bucket full of everything else I need, so what's the problem? Lol My friends are older, so I should cut them some slack! (not really, but I do need to be P/C about it!) Lol

    I went fishing on Friday Jan 8 dubious if they really had stocked the lake with trout. (as told by my post in the Local park section of FNN) After 2 hours of fishing, not much was caught! So I assumed they didn't stock the lake. When along comes the Ranger doing Rangerly things. So I asked him, "did they stock the Lake???" (not much was being caught, so it didn't look like they did) He swore up and down that they did stock the lake! So I had to ask him if he previously worked for the Trump administration or some Right Wing News outlet! (where Lying is just the way they do business!) So he didn't really want to answer that question, so I came up with my own answer to the poor fishing. Oxygen deprived trout! I know for a fact the trout truck had problems this week and they are double stocking the lake this up coming week. (maybe they did stock sickly trout) So it also answer's that strange sound I kept hearing in the wind that day. "Air Air" it must have been coming from the trout that day! Lol So I just bailed on the whole thing and went catfishing in the back. As I was walking out of there, I saw an average on only 1 trout on anyone's stringer. (so it wasn't just me who had bad fishing) I got no love on the Catfish in the back! (tough day for sure) However, a friend of mine had gone off in a new direction that day and got some Catfish bites. (that's all I got from him) So on Sunday I was going somewhere I've never been to before. (on foot at least)

    I literally had to find my way to this spot! I had to go around water traps in and out to finally get there and this was the down hill way. On the way out, I had to climb 3 hills to finally make my way back to my vehicle. I timed myself and it took 40 minutes to get back to the parking lot. I did make a quick bathroom break and stopped to catch my breath a couple of times. (any other spot I've fished at Irvine lake is less then an 20 minute walk) When I finally got there I had to ask myself this question. Was it worth the extra walking time? Heck YA! It wasn't that I set the world on fire there! I only caught 3 trout and 1 stocker Catfish and I did miss some other bites. Plus it took me half the day to figure the spot out! Also every fish besides maybe Crappie live there. I saw Carp jumping all day and it's an known Bass area, besides I proved you could catch trout and catfish there! So why is it, that the better fishing spots are always the ones that take the most effort to get to them? Lol

    Since I haven't heard from my friend since Mid day Friday. (that's not like him) I was looking for Ravens on the way back! (Ravens will circle around something Dead) Lol I didn't see any Ravens circling, so that was a good sign! But when I got to the boat ramp and looked back at the West shore and how close and flat walking the Boat Docks really is from the parking lot. The next time one of my friends "Whines" about how far the boat docks are from the car. I'm going to tell them how Lucky they are, "I'm not taking them on an Batann Death March" to get to our fishing spot. Lol
    Last edited by etucker1959; 01-11-2021 at 03:18 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by etucker1959 View Post
    I thought everybody knew what a Bataan Death March is. Boy was I wrong on that one.
    Me too! I though everyone knew about that one.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by etucker1959 View Post
    I thought everybody knew what a Bataan Death March is.
    You give people waaaaaaaaay too much credit, eTucks. The average person can't find Japan or the Philippines on a map.....

  4. #4

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    A little off the subject, but I served with a fella in Nam who's Dad was taken POW at Bataan. Dad was a POW until war ended. When Allen got orders his dad tried to get him refuse to go to Nam. Told his son the USA would not support him.

  5. #5

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    Great knowledge of history! I know of the "I shall return," by Douglas McArthur. World War II was indescribable. There were so many horrible things that you cannot fathom a human being can do to another human being.

    Not fishing related but did you know about Plaza Cuartel in Palawan, Philippines. About 150 American soldiers were burnt alive by Japanese soldiers. Just thinking about it now gave me goosebumps. They were really really bad back then.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaddFish View Post
    Great knowledge of history! I know of the "I shall return," by Douglas McArthur. World War II was indescribable. There were so many horrible things that you cannot fathom a human being can do to another human being.

    Not fishing related but did you know about Plaza Cuartel in Palawan, Philippines. About 150 American soldiers were burnt alive by Japanese soldiers. Just thinking about it now gave me goosebumps. They were really really bad back then.
    What the Japanese did to the civilians of Manila as McArthur was closing in was beyond horrible! (the Japanese killed 100,000 for no reason!) My father was an WW2 veteran and a History professor. (it's his birthday today and he's 95!) I disagree with him about should the Americans have come back and liberated the Philippines! It was unnecessary from a strategic standpoint! The Philippines would have been liberated anyway by the surrender of Japan! All those Pilipino lives would have been saved, just for General MacArthur could say, "I have returned!"
    Last edited by etucker1959; Yesterday at 12:09 PM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by etucker1959 View Post
    What the Japanese did to the civilians of Manila as McArthur was closing in was beyond horrible! (the Japanese killed 100,000 for no reason!) My father was an WW2 veteran and a History professor. (it's his birthday today and he's 95!) I disagree with him about should the Americans have come back and liberated the Philippines! It was unnecessary from a strategic standpoint! The Philippines would have been liberated anyway by the surrender of Japan! All those Pilipino lives would have been saved, just for General MacArthur could say, "I have returned!"
    Happy birthday sir! I always look up to WW2 veterans for they have witnessed something "I ran out of words to describe." You sure had a lot of stories growing up. Do you say they deserved the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

    When you hear the stories, you're like "What? No way!" How could they have done such a thing, over what? You can't say power? I mean, if I was one of the Japs, why would I slaughter another human being for someone's ideology? I couldn't even hurt a fly! Hurting and killing another human being is horrible. PERIOD.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by etucker1959 View Post
    My father was an WW2 veteran and a History professor. (it's his birthday today and he's 95!)
    Happy Bdday to your pops, Etucks. Some eyes have seen a lot more than others have, and I'm sure he's one of them.

  9. #9

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    MaddFish, I am a very peaceful person too, and I will give you my answer to your question. it is a definite "no" from me. The United States unnecessarily targeted civilians in Japan (perhaps out of vengeance), not only with two atomic bombs, but even before that while bombing the Tokyo area. I am sure that this was meant to terrorize the Japanese population (speaking of terrorism), and hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians were killed in these attacks. Plus, there was what happened in Okinawa, when much of the civilian population lost their lives. Our former next door neighbors (now passed on but they lived to be in their 90s) were from Okinawa, but escaped their before WWII came there, by becoming pineapple pickers in Hawaii (and later moving to California). They were nice people.

    My father went to Japan and Korea in the aftermath of WWII, and eventually wrote poetry that he published (fairly well known actually among local poetry circles), much of which describes the pitiful conditions that he saw. He told me that he was the original "I hate the army guy." My father was a very special human being, and he had compassion for those people. I was his number one fishing buddy too, while growing up, and I always think of him when I go fishing.

    The Japanese military committed many atrocities, mostly to other Asians such as the Chinese and Koreans. They (the Japanese military, not the civilians) certainly are to blame for that, but I do not think that the intentional killing of Japanese civilians by U.S. military was needed or something that should have been done. There is no excuse no matter who does it.

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