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Thread: Shame worked in Alabama

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    Default Shame worked in Alabama

    Shame worked in Alabama
    By Tom Nichols December 18

    Even as his overall approval ratings continue to erode, President Trump remains popular among a swath of Republican voters for whom he can do no wrong — including his endorsement of the now-vanquished Roy Moore, an accused child molester who nearly became a U.S. senator from Alabama.

    This raises an important question: How should conservative critics of the administration approach those people who, a year in, remain unshakably attached to an administration plumbing such moral depths? Should we engage and try to understand these voters, or should we shame and scold in an effort to reawaken some moral sense in a party that once proclaimed itself the defender of patriotic and family values?

    Personally, I am in the “shame and scold” camp. The “engage and understand” approach is based on the deeply flawed assumption that these voters don’t know what they are doing. It is a kind of “root causes” explanation, in which Trump’s supporters are good people who are merely expressing a yawp of anger at a globalized world that has left them behind.

    [...]

    These voters are, indeed, angry. And their feelings are not entirely unreasonable: They fear — rightly — that much of the culture of political correctness is aimed at squelching their participation in public life. And, yes, they have legitimate concerns about globalization and changes that have both improved their standard of living and put many of them out of work.

    But if these were really the issues at the bedrock of Trump’s support, more of these voters would care about values and policy than actually do. The same people who blasted the Clintons — again, rightly — for sex, lies and elitist corruption are rallying behind a cast of characters in Washington who make the “swamps” of previous administrations look like experiments in good government. In their world, Michael Flynn is a hero and Robert S. Mueller III the enemy. The FBI is worse than the KGB.

    None of this is rational, and it cannot be remedied with reasonable argument. These are the politics of resentment. Although inevitably poisonous, resentment feels good. It gives meaning to a life in turmoil. It allows voters to dismiss facts at will. It’s a great rationale for staying put and staying mad. It gives focus to an otherwise inchoate rage. Why is your life less than you want it to be? It’s all Don Lemon’s fault.

    The only response to such irrational and even hateful politics is to bypass pointless arguments and instead try to rouse a sense of basic decency. Are you arguing that black families were better off under slavery? Shame on you. Do you really believe America is no better than Russia? Shame on you.

    [...]

    Shaming and scolding, obviously, are not the only answer to our dysfunctional politics. Conservatives who oppose the politics of people such as Moore and Bannon will have to make a better case than disgust. Nonetheless, if sensible conservatives want to reclaim the GOP, they need to stop responding to small-minded, un-American resentments that have nothing to do with politics or government and everything to do with crackpot notions of social revenge. They can begin by returning three important words to our national lexicon: Shame on you.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...340_story.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaPo
    The only response to such irrational and even hateful politics is to bypass pointless arguments and instead try to rouse a sense of basic decency. Are you arguing that black families were better off under slavery? Shame on you. Do you really believe America is no better than Russia? Shame on you.
    Are you arguing that current Confederate Flag waving isn't underlyingly racist? Shame on you.

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    F all the politics. Go Fishing !

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    Quote Originally Posted by tpfishnfool View Post
    F all the politics. Go Fishing !

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    Quote Originally Posted by tpfishnfool View Post
    F all the politics. Go Fishing !
    Kinda hard to go fishing on lands that were once public and now are owned by Exxon.

    But yeah, eff all the politics. Politics and fishing are completely separate, once said a wise man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
    Kinda hard to go fishing on lands that were once public and now are owned by Exxon.

    But yeah, eff all the politics. Politics and fishing are completely separate, once said a wise man.
    Maybe he's hoping the pollution from drilling and mining will kill the fish. Then he can just walk along and pick them up. Have a reeeeeal nice limit photo for the fishing posts section

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    Maybe he's hoping the pollution from drilling and mining will kill the fish. Then he can just walk along and pick them up. Have a reeeeeal nice limit photo for the fishing posts section
    I don't really think it's that.

    What I have noticed is that the people who are not concerned about these changing legislations moving public lands to private entities, may be the same individuals who perhaps may not visit these national monuments, let alone leave their usual local bodies of water in which they fish in. Our pay lakes are still gonna be there regardless of what legislation goes down, so there is no impact to many of those who fish these areas, including our city parks.

    (Although, I'm sure there would be some vociferous opposition if let's say, Castaic and Pyramid were going to be converted to the new Lake Mathews and no longer allowing fisherman access; I think somehow there would be a thread that gets created that suddenly connects politics and fishing.)

    People only get involved when it affects them and only them. Everyone else can eat cake. And that's the underlying problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
    I don't really think it's that.

    What I have noticed is that the people who are not concerned about these changing legislations moving public lands to private entities, may be the same individuals who perhaps may not visit these national monuments, let alone leave their usual local bodies of water in which they fish in. Our pay lakes are still gonna be there regardless of what legislation goes down, so there is no impact to many of those who fish these areas, including our city parks.

    (Although, I'm sure there would be some vociferous opposition if let's say, Castaic and Pyramid were going to be converted to the new Lake Mathews and no longer allowing fisherman access; I think somehow there would be a thread that gets created that suddenly connects politics and fishing.)

    People only get involved when it affects them and only them. Everyone else can eat cake. And that's the underlying problem.
    True dat 100%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    True dat 100%
    "Sequoias? Pshaw. Who cares about that tree...I can't even spell Sequoias....

    ...OH, you're taking SARL away, I need to contact my local politician."

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    None of this is rational, and it cannot be remedied with reasonable argument. These are the politics of resentment. Although inevitably poisonous, resentment feels good. It gives meaning to a life in turmoil. It allows voters to dismiss facts at will. It’s a great rationale for staying put and staying mad. It gives focus to an otherwise inchoate rage.
    Roy Moore files complaint to block Alabama Senate result
    By Madison Park and Keith Allen, CNN
    Updated 4:10 AM ET, Thu December 28, 2017

    (CNN) Roy Moore filed an election complaint on Wednesday, alleging potential voter fraud in Alabama's special election and urged a delay in certifying the results.

    Moore, a Republican, has refused to concede after losing the Senate race on Dec. 12 to Democrat Doug Jones by more than 20,000 votes.

    Alabama Secretary of State John Merrill is slated to certify the special election results Thursday. But the Moore campaign launched a last-minute court battle to stop state officials from certifying Jones as the winner, saying it should be delayed until a "thorough investigation of potential election fraud," according to his press release.

    CNN reached out to the Alabama Secretary of State's office for comment on whether Moore's filing would affect the process.

    Previously, Merrill has said it is "highly unlikely" that Jones would not be certified as the winner of the election.

    Moore and his campaign filed a complaint in the Circuit Court of Montgomery, Alabama, listing several allegations and called for "a new special election."

    His complaint alleges that out-of-state residents had been allowed to vote and that election fraud experts had concluded through statistical analyses that fraud had taken place. One of the election experts Moore cites is Richard Charnin, who also posts about JFK conspiracy theories and the murder of DNC staffer, Seth Rich.

    Moore's complaint also alleged "anomalous" higher voter turnout in Jefferson County, in which census data shows 43% of the population is black. He called the county's 47% voter turnout as "highly unusual" and questioned the integrity of its election results.

    Jones is the first Democrat in a generation to win a Senate seat in Alabama, beating Moore amid a firestorm of allegations that the GOP candidate had sexually abused teens.

    In his election complaint, Moore stated that he took a polygraph test over the sexual misconduct allegations made against him by Leigh Corfman, Beverly Nelson and Tina Johnson. Moore says that he took the polygraph test after the December 12 election, according to his affidavit, included in the complaint.

    In the affidavit Moore states, "the results of the examination reflected that I did not know, nor had I ever had any sexual contact with any of these individuals."

    He called the allegations "false and malicious attacks on my character."

    In a press release, Moore implored supporters to call state officials to delay certifying the results.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/28/politi...int/index.html

    Shaming and scolding, obviously, are not the only answer to our dysfunctional politics. Conservatives who oppose the politics of people such as Moore and Bannon will have to make a better case than disgust. Nonetheless, if sensible conservatives want to reclaim the GOP, they need to stop responding to small-minded, un-American resentments that have nothing to do with politics or government and everything to do with crackpot notions of social revenge. They can begin by returning three important words to our national lexicon: Shame on you.
    Last edited by Lady Quagga; 12-28-2017 at 10:32 AM. Reason: Link added.

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