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Thread: National Park Fee Increase?

  1. #11


    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    What the Republicans are calling "tax reform" would actually be named "tax cuts for the rich" if they were being honest.
    It's actually tax reform and a tax cut for the rich if they could get their evil plan across. Here's what I mean, they really want to cut 5 trillion in tax's for the rich and corporations. But they have to offset 3.5 trillion of it by eliminating other deductions. (tax reform) They are also willing to increase the National debt by 1.5 trillion. So much for being the party of fiscal conservationism!!

  2. #12


    Quote Originally Posted by seal View Post
    Yea and the left never takes extra money out of peoples wallets. Please see California's newest gas tax for example. Left can rape everybody's wallet and it's ok. I think many of you need a little mirror time. I understand the concerns but don't get the lack of self reflection.
    So you consider a gas tax to repair roads the same as a tax cut to give the wealthiest people on the planet a tax break while increasing our national debt? Not to mention the vindictive di(k is taking away the tax write off for state taxes to punish California and New York. That gives me, Mr Working middle class a significant increase, not to mention screwing everyone on their 401K plans which is all the majority of the middle class have to retire on. They want you as poor and desperate as possible to weaken resistance and turn this into a third world country with extremely rich and everyone else poor and desperate so they can go back to slave labor conditions. SO THEY CAN MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY! Trickle down is a BS fallacy. When the cup is full from the overrun, they get a bowl, when the bowls full, they get a bucket, when the buckets full, they get a larger tank, etc etc etc. It NEVER makes it to the working class. Their reasoning is "hey, be glad you have a job (job creators). Now shut up and get back to work or I'll replace you with someone that will work for even less""

  3. #13


    This thread went from silly straight to stupid.

  4. #14


    Quote Originally Posted by CHUCKY View Post
    This thread went from silly straight to stupid.
    I had the same thought. I had it before too. Is this person for real or is he/she acting this way for show?

  5. #15


    It's interesting that this thread morph into talking about tax's (which is a very current event) and then drew some criticism. The fact that it drew criticism say's a lot about how Republicans win elections and chose to govern. Republican's exploit the hatred some people have of Democrats. (for whatever reason I don't know) Then pull the wool over people eyes. Lie to them and then enact whatever policy's they see fit, regardless of what their constitutes want or is in their best interest!! If you don't believe that, look how the Obama Care Repeal & Replace played out. Trump said, "we going to have great Health Care for everyone." Then their evil plans came out!! (Trump himself called it mean) Tens of millions would lose their Health Insurance and their plans had an approval rating of 17%. They were 1 vote shy of passing it for now!!! Their going to pull the same crap with Tax reform. So if you think that's a dumb topic to talk about, so be it!!!
    Last edited by etucker1959; 11-02-2017 at 04:20 AM.

  6. #16


    Quote Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
    The ole "The left does it too!" argument.

    I have a better proposal.

    Instead of taxing everyone who drives/consumes gasoline, you give the rich a tax break.

    With the extra revenue, they can pave California's highways and roads for us.
    This is not an ole "left does it too" argument it is a reality that continues to be ignored by those that buy into everything "their" side puts out. It amazes me how easily this states population ignores the continually escalating taxation by their party of choice and instead puts all the focus on the under taxed rich argument. It's not that I don't agree that their are too many loopholes for the rich to escape from taxes, I do, but I at this point think their own party is causing as much if not more cash flow concerns for them by over taxation. Just amazes me the blinders that some have on.

    Question? Let's say the tax laws change drastically and the rich loose most of their loopholes and the other holy grail the minimum wages go up to $15 bucks the economy grows and all is peachy everybody's happy right? Do you then believe the powers that be will cut taxes for the people of this state or do you believe they will see an opportunity to raise taxes further because of the new cash flow? I know the answer and I'd bet you do too.
    Last edited by seal; 11-02-2017 at 08:45 AM.

  7. #17


    After review of the rest of this thread I realized I slipped and forgot how worthless it is to try and have an honest discussion in this section. I might be slow but I think I get it now, enjoy your toy boys and girl no more "silly" or "stupid" posts from this moderate.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Thooget of Humilityland


    Quote Originally Posted by seal View Post
    After review of the rest of this thread I realized I slipped and forgot how worthless it is to try and have an honest discussion in this section. I might be slow but I think I get it now, enjoy your toy boys and girl no more "silly" or "stupid" posts from this moderate.
    You know, if you showed any type of consistency with your 'moderate' views a few years back, I'd find this post commendable.

    But yeah...the "Post History" function on this site is very telling.

    Have fun on Facebook.

    And remember kids! I'm also a moderate!*

    *Offer only valid when a Republican is in power.

  9. #19


    Quote Originally Posted by seal View Post
    After review of the rest of this thread I realized I slipped and forgot how worthless it is to try and have an honest discussion in this section. I might be slow but I think I get it now, enjoy your toy boys and girl no more "silly" or "stupid" posts from this moderate.
    I think it's safe to say that, based on your posting record, you're not a moderate.

    I think it's also safe to say that your "honest discussion" isn't really concerned about complete honesty.

    No more silly or stupid posts from you? I won't hold my breath.

    California Leads U.S. Economy, Away From Trump
    Whatever the president says, this state does the opposite. It's working.
    By Matthew A. Winkler
    May 10, 2017, 2:00 AM PDT

    To justify his executive orders nullifying policies protecting people from climate change, hazardous working conditions and persecution because of their religion or citizenship status, President Donald Trump during a Feb. 16 press conference said: "To be honest, I inherited a mess. It's a mess. Jobs are pouring out of the country." He later told the Conservative Political Action Conference that regulations are "crushing our economy."

    That's a claim worth exploring. Look at California, which is one-eighth of the U.S. population with 39 million people and one-seventh of the nation's gross domestic product of $2.3 trillion. Far from being a mess, California's economy is bigger than ever, rivaling the U.K. as No. 5 in the world, when figures for 2016 are officially tabulated.

    California is the chief reason America is the only developed economy to achieve record GDP growth since the financial crisis of 2008 and ensuing global recession, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Much of the U.S. growth can be traced to California laws promoting clean energy, government accountability and protections for undocumented people. Governor Jerry Brown, now in his fourth term, considers immigrants a major reason for the state's success: "39 percent of us are Latino and the majority are from Mexico," he said in a March 2 interview in his Sacramento office.

    In the stock and bond markets, where investors show no allegiance to political parties, California has outperformed the rest of the U.S. the past five years, especially since the Nov. 9 election, when Trump became the fifth person to win the Electoral College and lose the popular vote. California's creditworthiness keeps getting better, measured by the declining premium global investors must pay to ensure against depreciation of the state's debt obligations. That premium has diminished more than for any other state since 2012, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. California, whose voters favored Hillary Clinton two to one, outperformed Treasury bonds since the November election. Texas, which is the second-largest state in population and which supported Trump, became cheaper compared to Treasuries and California in the market for state and local debt since the November election. Investors see security in the state with more protections for immigrants and more regulations.

    California's borrowing cost is 0.15 percentage points lower than the average for states and municipalities and has declined to just 0.24 percentage points more than the U.S. pays on its debt, down from 1.97 percentage points in 2013.

    At the same time, bonds sold by California's municipalities produced a total return of 2.3 percent since November, outperforming the benchmark for the U.S., according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The growing popularity of bonds sold by California issuers is a consequence of the state's more rigorous regulation of the market, specifically legislation signed by Brown last year, creating greater transparency and accountability for issuers of California debt.

    No state or country has created as many laws discouraging fossil fuels and carbon while promoting clean energy. That convergence of policy and voter preference is paying off in the stock market.

    California is home to 20 of the 130 companies in North America and South America that meet the standard classification of clean energy. These 20 companies produced a total return of 45 percent during the past 12 months, beating the clean energy benchmark's 13 percent, the S&P 500's 19 percent and the S&P 500 Energy Index's 6 percent.

    California clean energy companies reported annual revenue growth of 26 percent, almost three times the benchmark, and they turned more revenue into profit with an average gross margin of 46 percent, compared to 41 percent for the benchmark. California companies also spent 13 percent of their revenue on research and development compared to 8 percent for the benchmark. Jobs at clean energy companies in California increased 14 percent last year, double the average rate for the industry. Analysts surveyed by Bloomberg say these 20 stocks will gain only 1 percent during the next 12 months, because they achieved their target valuations much sooner than predicted. Tesla Inc., the Palo Alto-based manufacturer of electric vehicles, appreciated 60 percent since Trump's election and is now worth more than $50 billion, greater than Ford Motor Co.'s $45 billion market capitalization and almost as much as General Motors Co.

    "We have a goal of a million and a half electric vehicles by 2025 and that's quite a steep curve to get there," Brown said in the interview in March. "No matter what Trump says, China, the world, the academies of science and all the major countries have all recognized climate change. Certainly, businesses acknowledge they have to make these investments. California is well on its way."

    Technology driving the clean energy boom is the reason California companies lead most of their peers in U.S. The 467 California-based firms in the Russell 3000 Index produced a total return of 185 percent since 2012, easily surpassing the 94 percent for the index, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Analysts also are more bullish on companies in California than the rest of the U.S., predicting a 12-month average total return 12 percent (income plus appreciation) versus 9 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

    Behind such a favorable outlook is the diversity of the California economy, which grew $42.3 billion during the first three quarters last year. That's almost as much as the next two fastest-growing states, New York and Florida, combined.

    California's revenue from agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting totaled $39 billion in 2015, plus $279 billion from manufacturing. The trailing 12-month revenue from California technology companies is $720 billion, or 54 percent of the U.S. industry, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

    The capitalist juggernaut that is California helps explain why the state's per capita income increased 9.5 percent since 2015, the most of any state and the most since 2012, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Far from losing jobs overseas, California keeps creating them with an unemployment rate declining to 4.9 percent from 5.7 percent in 2016, faster than the national average.

    None of this is lost on the residents of California. They are proudly enacting policies in opposition to Trump's. The legislature became the first to vote to become a sanctuary state, and supported raising gas taxes and vehicle registration fees to improve infrastructure. While Trump gets the lowest approval of any new president after 100 days and the Republican Congress does worse, the politics of California are the opposite. A recent University of California Berkeley Institute of Government Studies poll found 57 percent of California's registered voters approve of the legislature's job performance. Brown gets 61 percent approval.

    If that's a "mess," Trump could only hope for more of it.

  10. #20


    Incidentally, thanks to all of you who turned this into yet another partisan political discussion.

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