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Thread: Las Vegas Massacre

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    Fine, Lady Quagga, if you want to stand with the rednecks you like to make fun of, on the wrong side of history.
    Is this the "colonial musket" argument? If not, do you care to elaborate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    There is no legitimate reason for people to have automatic or semi-automatic guns; thus, they should be outlawed.
    "Legitimate" reason? Is this the "hunting use" argument? Once again, do you care to elaborate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    If gun dealers report their sales to police, why aren't they noticing when a person stockpiles large numbers of high powered weapons? There must be something missing in the translation.
    Because at this time, there is no law against collecting a large number of firearms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    P.S. Have you ever known anyone who was killed by gunfire?
    As a matter of fact, I have.

    And not that it has any bearing on the current topic, I might add that my own father was shot and nearly died from his injuries. He never completely recovered from it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
    Quagga did shoot a rat once.
    Now DS, you saw the vid. It was clearly a plank.

    Rats require bats. I only shoot snakes.

  3. #23
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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Quagga View Post
    Now DS, you saw the vid. It was clearly a plank.

    Rats require bats. I only shoot snakes.
    I dunno yo....you messed up that rat good.

  5. #25

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    Sure, first of all, I find it strange that you seem to be defending personal gun arsenals at the same time as you are criticizing the violence that gun culture produces, Lady Quagga.

    What are the basic elements that people want in life? They want happiness, security, and freedom. The Declaration and Constitution talk about these things. However, I consider no document perfect, and these were written over 200 years ago, when life was much different and humanity's knowledge base much less.

    The crucial questions are:

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us happy? NO! Quite the opposite.

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us more free? NO! Quite the opposite.

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us more secure i.e. safe? NO! Quite the opposite.

    It is long past time for reasonable gun regulation to reduce the influence of gun culture, which is hurting America and Americans.

    This is not anti-hunting. The weapons used in hunting are not what we are talking about. In that sense, yes, I do consider hunting a legitimate use of rifles. "Protection" may also be a legitimate use of guns, but not when the apparent use of such weapons would only be instigating violence against people.

    As far as muskets are concerned, I really don't know what you mean, but in the Constitution, the authors were referring to citizen soldiers with muskets, not career soldiers with drones and nuclear bombs. The argument about protecting the citizens from a tyrannical government, I am afraid (not that you made that argument but it is one that I see from libertarian and conservative types), has gone down the drain, because if our government really wanted to kill us, they could and there is nothing that citizens could do about it with measly guns. Thus, it is imperative that government represent us and our interests, that it care about us, and that we participate in it and make it be "our government." As part of being "our government," I think we need gun control reforms, along with many other reforms.

    That it is legal to own a bunch of guns is one of the things that needs to be addressed. Legal or not, it seems to me that a person who is accumulating a large arsenal should be noted and checked upon, if not outright stopped from owning so many lethal weapons. Again, as I said, that should be a huge red flag.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    Sure, first of all, I find it strange that you seem to be defending personal gun arsenals at the same time as you are criticizing the violence that gun culture produces, Lady Quagga.

    What are the basic elements that people want in life? They want happiness, security, and freedom. The Declaration and Constitution talk about these things. However, I consider no document perfect, and these were written over 200 years ago, when life was much different and humanity's knowledge base much less.

    The crucial questions are:

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us happy? NO! Quite the opposite.

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us more free? NO! Quite the opposite.

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us more secure i.e. safe? NO! Quite the opposite.

    It is long past time for reasonable gun regulation to reduce the influence of gun culture, which is hurting America and Americans.

    This is not anti-hunting. The weapons used in hunting are not what we are talking about. In that sense, yes, I do consider hunting a legitimate use of rifles. "Protection" may also be a legitimate use of guns, but not when the apparent use of such weapons would only be instigating violence against people.

    As far as muskets are concerned, I really don't know what you mean, but in the Constitution, the authors were referring to citizen soldiers with muskets, not career soldiers with drones and nuclear bombs. The argument about protecting the citizens from a tyrannical government, I am afraid (not that you made that argument but it is one that I see from libertarian and conservative types), has gone down the drain, because if our government really wanted to kill us, they could and there is nothing that citizens could do about it with measly guns. Thus, it is imperative that government represent us and our interests, that it care about us, and that we participate in it and make it be "our government." As part of being "our government," I think we need gun control reforms, along with many other reforms.

    That it is legal to own a bunch of guns is one of the things that needs to be addressed. Legal or not, it seems to me that a person who is accumulating a large arsenal should be noted and checked upon, if not outright stopped from owning so many lethal weapons. Again, as I said, that should be a huge red flag.
    I wish Tucky's posts were like this.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Quagga View Post
    I have no problem banning bump stocks or any other type of trigger actuator device.

    So, now you want to ban Belt Loops and Pockets ? You want us to use suspenders ?
    You might get a ban on Bump Fire stocks BUT you'll never Ban Belt loops or pockets !





  8. #28

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    Natural Lefty… I sent you a PM..

  9. #29

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    Thank you, Jeff. I answered your message. ;)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    Sure, first of all, I find it strange that you seem to be defending personal gun arsenals at the same time as you are criticizing the violence that gun culture produces, Lady Quagga.
    As an enthusiast who has owned a collection of firearms (both historical and modern), I always find derogatory connotations like "arsenal" and "gun culture" amusing.

    Being a gun owner and expressing grief and anger over a tragedy like this are not mutually exclusive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    What are the basic elements that people want in life? They want happiness, security, and freedom. The Declaration and Constitution talk about these things. However, I consider no document perfect, and these were written over 200 years ago, when life was much different and humanity's knowledge base much less.
    Agreed - and I have no problem adapting the Constitution or the U.S. Code to accommodate the changes in modern society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    The crucial questions are:

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us happy? NO! Quite the opposite.

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us more free? NO! Quite the opposite.

    Does knowing that people around us may have their own personal gun arsenals make us more secure i.e. safe? NO! Quite the opposite.
    These questions and your answers to them make certain assumptions. While your happiness or sense of freedom & safety may be influenced by the other people's gun ownership, doesn't automatically make it true for me or anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    It is long past time for reasonable gun regulation to reduce the influence of gun culture, which is hurting America and Americans.
    I'd argue that there are other social factors which play just as much (if not more) a part in crime and violence than guns. That's not to say that there's no room for tighter regulation (I believe there is), but demonizing guns (or gun enthusiasts) will not prevent psychopaths like Paddock (or other "lesser" criminals) from engaging in violence against others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    This is not anti-hunting. The weapons used in hunting are not what we are talking about. In that sense, yes, I do consider hunting a legitimate use of rifles. "Protection" may also be a legitimate use of guns, but not when the apparent use of such weapons would only be instigating violence against people.
    The use of a weapon instigates violence against people? Or did you mean ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    As far as muskets are concerned, I really don't know what you mean, but in the Constitution, the authors were referring to citizen soldiers with muskets, not career soldiers with drones and nuclear bombs. The argument about protecting the citizens from a tyrannical government, I am afraid (not that you made that argument but it is one that I see from libertarian and conservative types), has gone down the drain, because if our government really wanted to kill us, they could and there is nothing that citizens could do about it with measly guns. Thus, it is imperative that government represent us and our interests, that it care about us, and that we participate in it and make it be "our government." As part of being "our government," I think we need gun control reforms, along with many other reforms.
    Ugh, I won't argue the legitimacy of an citizen militia, which is a another can of worms altogether. I will point out one thing you mentioned - the subject of drones and nukes. In the grand scheme of things, neither has made much of an impact in our overseas conflicts, against enemy combatants using little more than small arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Lefty View Post
    That it is legal to own a bunch of guns is one of the things that needs to be addressed. Legal or not, it seems to me that a person who is accumulating a large arsenal should be noted and checked upon, if not outright stopped from owning so many lethal weapons. Again, as I said, that should be a huge red flag.
    I think this is fair. I think we need a much more thorough review of potential gun owners, and would consider reasonable checks on existing gun owners to ensure they are a) compliant with local gun laws, and b) haven't had changes in their criminal/mental status which would precluded them from ownership.

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