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Thread: Republicans have some "Splaning" to do about Hurricane Harvey!!!

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Quagga View Post
    (Alas, this thread quickly turned from a political diatribe into a debate on global warming.)
    I wonder who could've caused this, with their analysis that hurricanes are hitting our coast now because of 'climate change.'

    Do I get a guess or is the answer obvious?

    The worst part is that the rebuttals always occur against the lowest hanging fruit.

  2. #52

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    I am very happy to see Chucky mention buying an electric car, even if that isn't really a serious proposal. ;) Perhaps we are making progress.

    What you said is correct, Seal, about not really being able to definitively tie a specific weather event to climate change. However, the overall picture is more complicated than that. There are numerous climate scientists on record as saying that Harvey was PROBABLY increased in severity by global warming, perhaps by 30%, which makes a huge difference in the storm's impact.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by etucker1959 View Post
    No way we are in a "NATURAL CYCLE!!!!" I'll put up in my defense, "The Thousands of Doctorate Degrees and Noble Peace Prizes winning scientist as my expert witness's!!!! What do you got Seal????????????????
    I think there is something to what Seal is saying, that it's a 'natural cycle', BUT only with the understanding that it does absolutely appear to be accelerating at a scary pace that matches scientific data collected for hundreds of years.

  4. #54

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    Someone brought up Mr. Hansen former head of NASA. He has made predictions about rising sea levels attribute to Global Warming, that are much more dire then what is predicted now. If he is only half right, kiss Florida good bye and Beach front property in Cal will be much different then it is today. The point I'm trying to make is History isn't going to be very kind to the climate deniers that we have today. Same as the opposition to Civil Rights! Nobody in public praises those Civil Rights deniers, except for the kind of people who marched in Virginia last month.
    Last edited by etucker1959; 09-07-2017 at 09:43 PM.

  5. #55

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    From what I understand, Eric, a considerable amount of sea level rise is already baked into the cake. This may be sobering and most people won't want to believe it, but we should be thinking about abandoning low lying coastal cities in the coming decades and planning for relocation to higher ground. And that is if Dr. Hanson is only half right.

    There are multiple natural cycles too, but I haven't seen any one that predicts this would be a period of warming, certainly not at the present rate. In fact, I think I saw that there is a 26 year cycle, and the last I heard, we should have been cooling but instead were having a series of warmest years on record. There is also a longer term cycle though, and events such as volcanic eruptions can affect the climate as well.
    Last edited by Natural Lefty; 09-07-2017 at 10:37 PM.

  6. #56

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    All this over a very simple concept. We have no freaking idea at this point the impact, if any, that humans are having on any one event. That is as simple as it gets and is accurate as it gets. Nobody at this point in time, climatologist, meteorologist or even LQ can answer that question. We simply do not have the understanding to definitively say whether an event is natural or human caused. This also comes down to another simple concept, no matter what we have done as humans to affect earth we do not have more power over weather than mother nature. So arrogant are we that we believe our power is that strong. Yes we can agree on potential future or current impacts that we are responsible for but at this point I don't believe man created this hurricane nor do I believe that man has done enough to intensify a hurricane significantly. Let's not go too far because once you jump off that cliff your credibility declines and the masses will become deaf to the big picture and that picture being we have to take care of this planet better!

    You cry wolf enough eventually you will be ignored.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by seal View Post
    ...nor do I believe that man has done enough to intensify a hurricane significantly.
    I completely agree.

    I believe the 3 degree jump in water temps in the Atlantic is causing the intensification of this year's hurricane season.

  8. #58

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    Yes, and the 3 degree jump in water temps was caused by a school of cavorting, warm blooded tuna, not by human fuel burning activity adding to the atmosphere's CO2 levels over the centuries. LOL

    Climate scientists are in almost complete agreement that global warming is increasing the intensity of storms -- not creating them, but intensifying them. This is not a linear thinking, either or issue, as in humans did or did not create the storms. This is an issue of how inadvertent human influence on the environment is affecting existing storms.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...rricane-harvey

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by seal View Post
    All this over a very simple concept. We have no freaking idea at this point the impact, if any, that humans are having on any one event. That is as simple as it gets and is accurate as it gets. Nobody at this point in time, climatologist, meteorologist or even LQ can answer that question. We simply do not have the understanding to definitively say whether an event is natural or human caused.
    And I never argued otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by seal View Post
    This also comes down to another simple concept, no matter what we have done as humans to affect earth we do not have more power over weather than mother nature. So arrogant are we that we believe our power is that strong.
    If you were referring to overall Geoscience, you'd be correct. But when it comes to climate change (not weather as you stated), you'd be incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by seal View Post
    Yes we can agree on potential future or current impacts that we are responsible for but at this point I don't believe man created this hurricane nor do I believe that man has done enough to intensify a hurricane significantly.
    You've combined two arguments here.

    No, I don't believe humans are "responsible" for this singular event. However, it's already been demonstrated that the intensity of the event can in part be attributed to an increase in ocean temperatures, in which humans - through climate change - play a chief role.

    Quote Originally Posted by seal View Post
    Let's not go too far because once you jump off that cliff your credibility declines and the masses will become deaf to the big picture and that picture being we have to take care of this planet better!

    You cry wolf enough eventually you will be ignored.
    Seal, there are skeptics, and there are deniers.

    In general, I have no problem with skeptics. I may not necessarily agree with them, but as part of the scientific process, they are invaluable, as they demand an examination of a particular issue from all sides, thus confirming (or eliminating) other possibilities and allowing us to view the nature of our universe in general, and our Earth (in this case) in particular.

    What I despise are the deniers, who think only in absolutes, with little or no scientific reasoning, motivated (or even worse, manipulated) by little more than politico-economic reasons. When partisanship and wealth become the primary factors in a person's view on environmental issues (as it does for most people in this country when it comes to denying climate change), no progress can be made towards correct the problem. Don't believe me? Look up Clair Patterson and his fight against lead poisoning, and tell me the same tactics aren't being used to debunk global warming.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUCKY View Post
    guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
    Why is this the typical response once your claims are shut down by real statistics.

    Are you going to respond to any of the claims that were used to shoot down all your points?

    Or are you gonna use one of Etuck's responses to respond to? (Thanks, eTuck, the FNN piņata)

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