Santa Ana River South Fork?

[carpanglerdude]

He fishes the same waters as I do, and he is on point when he mentions that the water is fine at his secret spots and I have caught some pretty decent sized fish in what are skinny waters around that stretch. It does require strapping up the hiking boots and dodging snakes, but they are still there.

There are so many natural springs in that area that you need to know where you are in order to find them. 100 yard down or up and you may not even see a stream. And these springs come out COLD. I've seen waterfalls in September during a low snow pack.

Regardless, I hope he does keep a tight lip on things. It's hard when its a source of income.

I've communicated with him many times. He has tightened up readily available on the creeks he fishes and I applaud him for that. We have fished many of the same creeks, and he has several really neat spots that aren't ever mentioned here.

While we are on the topic...anyone ever hear of the San Gorgonio Cutthroat? Supposedly was present up until the 1950s, but hasn't been seen since. I've seen a few reports of odd looking rainbows caught way back in the hills, wonder if they are still out there. Would make a heck of a fun camping/backpacking trips to look for these, although probably would be dissapointed

[DarkShadow]

...anyone ever hear of the San Gorgonio Cutthroat? Supposedly was present up until the 1950s...

Unfortunately, the "San Gorgonio" never existed.

It was just your run of the mill lahontan cutthroat that the DFG planted in the headwaters of the SA and never documented it well.

When Jordan and Grinnell went up there and 'discovered' the species, they forgot to check if any agency had done any stocking, and sure enough, since documentation was sketchy, he thought he had a new trout on his hands.

Years later, DFG revealed the early stocking of cutts up there, which didn't flourish whatsoever. The "San Gorgonio Trout" was stricken down as an actual species.

I'll find the documentation when I have a moment. It's quite an interesting read.

(Also interesting is the fact that a little 'unnamed stream' was stocked with pure Paiute Cutthroats taken from their native tributaries and then re-stocked. So technically, some little 'unnamed' stream in SB can hold ancestors of what is considered the rarest trout in North America. Which got me to thinking...how many other 'unnamed' streams are stocked with pure strains of fish from elsewhere that the DFG wants to have as an emergency stocking source of some native species and they don't tell anybody? I know there is a particular stream up there that contains a population of some very 'red banded' species of rainbow that look nothing like the wild rainbows that inhabit the adjacent tributaries, and there are man made and natural barriers that will isolate the species and prevent hybridization.)

[carpanglerdude]

Unfortunately, the "San Gorgonio" never existed.

It was just your run of the mill lahontan cutthroat that the DFG planted in the headwaters of the SA and never documented it well.

When Jordan and Grinnell went up there and 'discovered' the species, they forgot to check if any agency had done any stocking, and sure enough, since documentation was sketchy, he thought he had a new trout on his hands.

Years later, DFG revealed the early stocking of cutts up there, which didn't flourish whatsoever. The "San Gorgonio Trout" was stricken down as an actual species.

I'll find the documentation when I have a moment. It's quite an interesting read.

(Also interesting is the fact that a little 'unnamed stream' was stocked with pure Paiute Cutthroats taken from their native tributaries and then re-stocked. So technically, some little 'unnamed' stream in SB can hold ancestors of what is considered the rarest trout in North America. Which got me to thinking...how many other 'unnamed' streams are stocked with pure strains of fish from elsewhere that the DFG wants to have as an emergency stocking source of some native species and they don't tell anybody? I know there is a particular stream up there that contains a population of some very 'red banded' species of rainbow that look nothing like the wild rainbows that inhabit the adjacent tributaries, and there are man made and natural barriers that will isolate the species and prevent hybridization.)

Thanks for sharing, that is interesting! I found some documents suggesting the first stocking of the cutthroats was back in the 1800s. Who knew folks were stocking these creeks back then?

Good read: http://www.nativefishlab.net/library/textpdf/18176.pdf

" It is obvious
from the records of plants in tributaries of the Santa Ana River and
in nearby streams that cutthroat trout fry were planted in most, if
not all, streams of the higher parts of the San Bernardino Mountains."

Salmo clarki evermanni is just a cutthroat then. Still would like to find one

[DarkShadow]

Salmo clarki evermanni is just a cutthroat then.

Pretty much. (Although don't try to tell the people who still believe, sometimes they get defensive, as if they've been searching for a mythical creature all their lives and it would shatter them if it turns out to be just a Lahontan)

Fish stocking has been happening for quite a while. These stocks are what set the tone for the hybridization of most of our native species in California, since unabated stockings continued well after the 20th century. Now we are realizing we effed up, and are trying to find genetically pure fish in the most furthest reaches.

Still would like to find one

Try the Truckee!

*

Also, pick up this book:

Trout and Salmon of North America Hardcover – by Dr Robert J. Behnke (Author), Joe Tomelleri (Illustrator)

It is the Bible to us that chase native fish.