Selling Our Nation's Forests?

[City Dad]

So just how much Guberment ownership of land is enough or too much.

coincidence that all of the red areas occur in prime Bigfoot habitat????

[DarkShadow]

What is wrong with the proposed bill? Private people/corporations owning land with a natural resource, or perceived one. Ducks Unlimited is a great example of private lands ownership compared to public lands ownership. Does Corona lakes abuse it's resource? Do you truly believe the Federal government manages that land efficiently?

You honestly believe that the majority of the land is going to be taken over and managed by groups like Duck and Trout Unlimited, because obviously they have deeper pockets than major corporations? If you had a bidding war between Ducks Unlimited and Exxon-Mobil, you honestly think Ducks Unlimited is going to win?

Before I go any farther, we need to have a basic understanding of economics.

You are correct, feel free to answer the question above before we go any further.

So just how much Guberment ownership of land is enough or too much.

Fixed your map for you, Devore.



No wonder you're moving to South Carolina! Lots of white there.^

[Lipripper93561]

This map should make liberals cry.........just look at all that tax revenue that is lost.
Geo-Spatial analysis is my money maker, so those of you in San Bernardino.....below are your numbers. By the way SB is the largest county in the USA.

Total Acres is San Bernardino County 12,910,482 Acres
Federal Managed Lands 8,529,662 Acres

Forest Service 544,405 Acres
Wilderness Areas 2,358,812 Acres
Area of Environmental Concern 1,598,933 Acres
National Parks 1,891,137

I'm all for the privatization of the above areas besides the military bases.
We pay fees to the Forest service
We can only step foot into the wilderness areas, no vehicles...so pretty much off limits
ACEC, no vehicles, and off limits
National Parks.....pay fees to visit and park......why not privatize and create some competition.

[Lipripper93561]

You honestly believe that the majority of the land is going to be taken over and managed by groups like Duck and Trout Unlimited, because obviously they have deeper pockets than major corporations? If you had a bidding war between Ducks Unlimited and Exxon-Mobil, you honestly think Ducks Unlimited is going to win?



You are correct, feel free to answer the question above before we go any further.

Let's take the emotional aspect out of your argument, and talk facts only please. Do I feel that Exxon/Mobile will pay a higher price for wetland habitat than Ducks Unlimited will?
I strongly believe that Ducks Unlimited will pay a much higher price.
Do I feel that Ducks Unlimited would pay a higher price for the North Slope tar sands? Absolutely........in the oil business, there is much more money in a lease, than in a purchase.
Please fill us in on what areas/parks you are afraid (bad word, but just can't think of a better one right now) that Exon would purchase and outright trash or eliminate access to?



Fixed your map for you, Devore.



No wonder you're moving to South Carolina! Lots of white there.^

To a certain extent I can see the case you have put before us. But your "feelings" on corporations are just that...feelings...not facts. Corporations consist of people, just like the feds consists of people, why do you "trust" one segment of the population and not the other. What have the feds done to earn your trust whereas corporations have only broken your trust? Do you strongly feel that our national parks are effectively managed? Did you trust the Federal government last time you filled up.......or did you trust Exon/Mobile/BP/etc to fuel your vehicle? In this for lack of better terms "age of the stupid" we distrust Corporations, but these are the same corporations that have caused us great benefit. For a good read, look at the market conditions that Standard Oil emerged from. Standard Oil met a consumer demand, not a government demand, thus great profit was created. IF you have such distrust of corporations.....why do you engage the corporate world. (iphones, transportation, electricity, food,) these are all products of corporations....but of course they are all evil and out for their own good, not the benefit of the seller consumer relationship.

[DarkShadow]

To a certain extent I can see the case you have put before us. But your "feelings" on corporations are just that...feelings...not facts. Corporations consist of people, just like the feds consists of people, why do you "trust" one segment of the population and not the other. What have the feds done to earn your trust whereas corporations have only broken your trust? Do you strongly feel that our national parks are effectively managed? Did you trust the Federal government last time you filled up.......or did you trust Exon/Mobile/BP/etc to fuel your vehicle? In this for lack of better terms "age of the stupid" we distrust Corporations, but these are the same corporations that have caused us great benefit. For a good read, look at the market conditions that Standard Oil emerged from. Standard Oil met a consumer demand, not a government demand, thus great profit was created. IF you have such distrust of corporations.....why do you engage the corporate world. (iphones, transportation, electricity, food,) these are all products of corporations....but of course they are all evil and out for their own good, not the benefit of the seller consumer relationship.

Never did I say that corporations are evil. Everybody knows that corporations are out to profit, and make their shareholders profit as well, a gift for investing in the company.

Many a times on this site does one person give their opinion about a specific situation, and the Hawgz of the world assume that you must be against everything that is against your plight.

Does Exxon Mobile do good? Sure, it provides us the gasoline that we need to get to work everyday.

Can Exxon Mobile also do bad, in this case, buying up public land so that their profit margin is increased, and having the legal ability to keep people out? Sure, it also does too.

So because I'm against the private corporations selling out ordinary citizens like you and me because they want their profit margin increased, reducing the areas where we can fish, hunt, hike and enjoy doesn't mean that I'm against all corporations and pretend to not see the good they do provide to our society. But at the same time, just because a corporation aids in the daily sustenance for every day living, doesn't mean I give them a carte blanche for extending their influence elsewhere.

[Brent]

Never did I say that corporations are evil. Everybody knows that corporations are out to profit, and make their shareholders profit as well, a gift for investing in the company.

Many a times on this site does one person give their opinion about a specific situation, and the Hawgz of the world assume that you must be against everything that is against your plight.

Does Exxon Mobile do good? Sure, it provides us the gasoline that we need to get to work everyday.

Can Exxon Mobile also do bad, in this case, buying up public land so that their profit margin is increased, and having the legal ability to keep people out? Sure, it also does too.

So because I'm against the private corporations selling out ordinary citizens like you and me because they want their profit margin increased, reducing the areas where we can fish, hunt, hike and enjoy doesn't mean that I'm against all corporations and pretend to not see the good they do provide to our society. But at the same time, just because a corporation aids in the daily sustenance for every day living, doesn't mean I give them a carte blanche for extending their influence elsewhere.

Dark,

When are you announcing your run against Hillary and the rest of the a$$clowns? haha
You'd get my vote, but I'm not sure too many people would get on board the common sense party.
People love to hate too much. They need to feel it's us against them or good vs. evil. I just can't wrap my head around how stupid people can be in the name of their 'party' affiliations.
It's easier to follow what your told and keep your head in the sand than look at the whole thing as one big freaking problem. Which is exactly what it is.

[Lady Quagga]

Dark,

When are you announcing your run against Hillary and the rest of the a$$clowns? haha
You'd get my vote, but I'm not sure too many people would get on board the common sense party.
People love to hate too much. They need to feel it's us against them or good vs. evil. I just can't wrap my head around how stupid people can be in the name of their 'party' affiliations.
It's easier to follow what your told and keep your head in the sand than look at the whole thing as one big freaking problem. Which is exactly what it is.

Brent, every issue in this country - be it social, economic, scientific, etc. - has become politically polarized. The idea that an issue could and should transcend this self-destructive partisanship is anathema to these political extremists. There is no place in their world for a "third side", or even for mutual agreement based on rational argument and compromise. They likely see any opposing or dissenting view as "evil extremism", because how else can they establish themselves as being on the side of righteousness? A sad state indeed.

[DarkShadow]

Brent, every issue in this country - be it social, economic, scientific, etc. - has become politically polarized. The idea that an issue could and should transcend this self-destructive partisanship is anathema to these political extremists. There is no place in their world for a "third side", or even for mutual agreement based on rational argument and compromise. They likely see any opposing or dissenting view as "evil extremism", because how else can they establish themselves as being on the side of righteousness? A sad state indeed.

Psycho cyber stalker.

[Lady Quagga]

Psycho cyber stalker.

You been taking lessons from Hawggy?

Speaking of Hawgz, I wonder if they got to him yet?

[DarkShadow]

Speaking of Hawgz, I wonder if they got to him yet?

Hey Hawgz, they get at you yet?