New State Health Advisory: don't eat bass, carp, and large brown trout

[dkinla]

well, I don't think too many ppl eat LMB anyways... at least I don't.

This new advisory kinda bums me out... I always look forward to eating a tasty striper on that rare chance I actually catch a couple... oh well...

A lot of the fish I catch while surf fishing are released too... there are also recommendations on the amount/servings of perch, some croakers, etc. that one should eat... especially in the "red" zone of Santa Monica bay/Malibu areas.

Sad... maybe the only thing "safe" to eat are those rockfish from 200 feet down way out there near the Channel Islands

[DMS]

well, I don't think too many ppl eat LMB anyways... at least I don't.

This new advisory kinda bums me out... I always look forward to eating a tasty striper on that rare chance I actually catch a couple... oh well...

A lot of the fish I catch while surf fishing are released too... there are also recommendations on the amount/servings of perch, some croakers, etc. that one should eat... especially in the "red" zone of Santa Monica bay/Malibu areas.

Sad... maybe the only thing "safe" to eat are those rockfish from 200 feet down way out there near the Channel Islands

I don't think you are allowed to fish for rockfish at 200 feet anymore.

[dkinla]

Sorry for my erroneous statement... I don't have much deep sea fishing knowledge... So someone here can state what is the maximum depth that is allowed now for rockfishing.

[Thisfool]

WOW i learned a lot from this thread thought i was gunna read about a suggestion about what i shouldn't eat out of concern for my health, instead i learned climate change is a lie and Obama hates fishing.

[DMS]

Sorry for my erroneous statement... I don't have much deep sea fishing knowledge... So someone here can state what is the maximum depth that is allowed now for rockfishing.

Lol I still can't figure this out as they seem to change it faster than they can print the reg books and with the closures who knows.... I think the fish are safe to eat one foot deeper than we are allowed to fish. Oh also the unicorns are safe to eat from the same place that all those giant brown trout are stacked up.

[dkinla]

WOW i learned a lot from this thread thought i was gunna read about a suggestion about what i shouldn't eat out of concern for my health, instead i learned climate change is a lie and Obama hates fishing.

My thoughts exactly... I was interested in what some of the more knowledgeable FNNers here might have to say about this study and the advisory recommendations after reviewing some of the data... But I suppose the government just wasted a lot of money on another useless study. I'm just gonna keep fishin and have a good time with my dad and the Mrs., but I don't think I'll ever look at a striped bass the same way after this study... *sigh*

I think these are pretty STRONG recommendations they are making... That women of child bearing age and young children should NOT have any servings of these fish. Although not specified... I can only assume that striped bass would fall into the top of the food chain in our lakes/reservoirs... And likely... The same recs would apply to them under the "bass" category. I don't have kids yet... But this is definitely some "food" for thought.

[seal]

It's amazing that society still exists with all the crap that can kill ya out there. People are paid to do study's, if nothing every came out of the study's those same people would not receive their research money, there is an incentive to find stuff no matter how trivial and you can find stuff in every study you do.

I am a skeptic at the core, don't trust um, don't trust their motives, don't trust their study's, don't trust their message.

Oh and I just can't stop eating LMB's, damn yummy fish stripers suck!

[cutbait]

It's amazing that society still exists with all the crap that can kill ya out there. People are paid to do study's, if nothing every came out of the study's those same people would not receive their research money, there is an incentive to find stuff no matter how trivial and you can find stuff in every study you do.

I am a skeptic at the core, don't trust um, don't trust their motives, don't trust their study's, don't trust their message.

Oh and I just can't stop eating LMB's, damn yummy fish stripers suck!

I'm with Seal

MsG, preservatives in your canned foods, sodium, that oil in potato chips can't (forgot the name) Olestra?, sugars, soda's, cholesterol, trans fats..


Lots of stuff are going to cause our demise, I don't know of one local story of a fishermani going tests up or even sick from eating local fish

I do however see a bunch of fat azzez from the above mentioned and that IS taking years off your life.

[dkinla]

hey everyone,

I hope you guys aren't taking what I'm saying the wrong way... I'm just stating some concerns I have after I read the advisory and read over some of the pages of the full report. Up until I read this report, I just assumed the waters that feed into Pyramid, Castaic, Silverwood, etc. were pretty clean considering they are supplied via the California aqueduct, and they are essential our reservoirs that supply the people of Southern California. Since I returned to SoCal about 3 years ago after being away for a long, long time in medical school, residency, fellowship, etc., etc. I just felt pretty "safe" eating the striped bass from our local waters when I get a chance to actually catch one or two... which isn't that often anyways. I really didn't put much concern at all into the eating these tasty stripers. I often would take a striper or two over to my parents so they could cook up some spicy striper stew.

Anyways, I guess I'm just a little more concerned since I don't have any kids yet, and will hopefully have that happen soon... Once I got into surf fishing here, I was aware of the fish eating guidelines the OEHHS (Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment) based on the level of PCBs found in different species of fish as recommended here (click on the following link): http://www.oehha.ca.gov/fish/so_cal/socal061709.html

I usually catch/release the barred surf perch, YFC, Corbinas, etc. of the surf fishing zone, but occasionally, will eat one or two with my parents... you all may have seen some of my Jalama beach posts that I've made the past couple years. The older generations don't really care or believe any of these recommendations anyways... as my dad would often say... "the ocean here is way cleaner than Korea" (in Korean of course). But, as for me and my wife, we might eat the occasional perch or a fish that wouldn't make it alive if it were released...

back to this new study about the freshwater bass, carp, and brown trout... I don't really care about the carp and brown trout because who eats these fish anyways?? I can only imagine what goes on with the people who catch/eat those carp from the LA River all the time... but anyways, when the data from the study reveals that certain species of fish were found to contain xxx parts per billion of mercury... that is a little concerning. Now some of you will say, well, just about everything out there is contaminated with something... yes, that is true... mercury is found in off-shore tuna, etc., but I'm just saying that this is a little concerning to me in terms of the health implications it might have on younger women, young children, and the developing fetus in-utero.

I took a few minutes last Friday and actually spoke to one of the lead scientists/authors on this study.. his name is Robert K. Brodberg (Ph.D.). You can actually talk to him (or anyone else on the study I'm sure if you look them up here: http://calepa.ca.gov/StaffDirectory/default.asp?BDO=6

He was really friendly to talk to.. very knowledgeable in his field... and very talkative. I asked him what he thought about the striped bass population and why they were not included in this study. He basically said the striped bass wasn't really taken into consideration in this particular study because of the way the study was designed and something about not having enough resources to actually catch striped bass in addition to the other fish that were taken for sampling. I mentioned to him that they really should consider sampling striped bass in any future studies such as this one since striped bass are so popular in SoCal. He understood that striped bass were a very popular fish to eat, and I said well I can direct you to fishing forums that can obviously support the notion that a lot of people eat striped bass, including me when I get the chance. I told him that LMB are popular fish for the bass angling community, but they are often caught for the sport of it, and often released by most anglers. He also stated that he has been to some striper fishing clubs up in the bay area, and that he also enjoys the fishing aspect of catching, and eating the occasional striper.

Anyhow, a couple of other obvious things that came from my conversation with him:
--it's not that the water itself is contaminated, it really is the sediment that contains the mercury, and as everything else in the food chain, it works its way up and gets concentrated in the apex predators/species at the top of the food chain, especially fish that eat other little fish. He felt comfortable in stating that striped bass would probably have at least the same levels of mercury found in the other bass species (LMB, smallmouth, spotted bass).
--the bigger the fish, the higher the mercury content... he stated smaller schoolie size stripers were likely to contain less mercury than the much bigger models obviously
--he didn't have the site-specific data (such as in Pyramid Lake, Castaic, etc.) with him at the time of the conversation.

For those of you interested, and especially those of you who have some greater knowledge/degrees in environmental toxicology/etc., feel free to call him, or anyone else listed on the study. I was surprised that you could easily contact one of them. I don't have much knowledge or a degree in what these scientists/Ph.Ds are involved in.

Now, when I take a step back and look at some of the data, it is pretty amazing that their recommendation for "no consumption" in sensitive groups (meaning women of child-bearing age and children 1-17) was based on fish having a threshold of ONLY 440 parts per billion... that's basically 0.000044% level of mercury for it to be potentially deleterious the neurological development of a fetus or a young child.

I did a little more research online...

Mercury has 3 forms ( elemental mercury, inorganic salts, and organic mercury)... but organic mercury, in the form of methylmercury, is the form of mercury that most frequently causes adverse neurological problems since approximately 90% of the ingested mercury can be absorbed into the bloodstream through the GI (gastrointestinal) tract. The developing fetus' brain is especially sensitive to methylmercury. Organic mercury (especially methylmercury) are concentrated in the food chain. Fish from contaminated waters are most often implicated. Interestingly, industrial mercury pollution is dumped in the inorganic form, but small aquatic organisms and vegetation in the waters can convert it to the more harmful methylmercury. So, in the food chain, fish eat contaminated vegetation/organisms, and the mercury becomes more and more concentrated in the fish. Quite shockingly, fish PROTEIN binds more than 90% of the consumed methylmercury so tightly, than even cooking the fish (deep frying, boiling, baking, pan-frying) cannot remove it from the meat

Babies exposed to methylmercury in-utero are most susceptible. In addition, mercury was also discovered in the breast milk of mothers, continuing the babies' expsoure to mercury even after birth. Some of the known potential complications of mercury exposure to developing babies include low birth weight, seizure disorders, developmental delay, visual loss, hearing loss, etc. Mercury has high lipid solubility, meaning it can easily concentrate in the brain, kidney, liver, and skin.

Long term studies may also indicate the even "prenatal exposure at LOW concentrations can cause subtle, but detectable, decrements in the areas of motor function, language, and memory." There are some known studies I found on-line such as the study that looked at prenatal exposure through maternal consumption of predominantly fish/whale meat among children in the Faroe Islands that demonstrated impaired development .

Since the fetal brain is most susceptible to mercury exposure, the EPA reduced the allowable intake of methylmercury from 0.5 mcg (micrograms) to 0.1 mcg of mercury per kilogram per day. The FDA has recommended that pregnant women, breastfeeding mothers, and young children avoid eating fish with a high mercury content (> 1 ppm, here it's only 1 part per million, not parts per billion like the new study), such as in shark, swordfish, and king mackerel. This also includes tuna (mercury content between 0.5ppm and 1.5 ppm). This translates into a weekly consumption of 1 can of tuna for an adult. Mercury levels in freshwater fish vary, but, in general, bass/pike/walleye have high levels of mercury and should be eaten in moderation.

Well, at least to me... the potential for harm is certainly real and out there in our environment unfortunately. Will someone who has been eating a bunch of striper tacos every day for the past 30 years develop signs of chronic mercury toxicity someday??? who knows....

but I'm sure no government agency will ever do a study in which they compare pregnant women who eat 7 striped bass/week to pregnant women who do not, and see what the long-term follow-up will be on these women and their children. No government agency would sponsor a study that looked at young kids who eat whatever number of servings a month of bass/carp/brown trout compared to young kids that do not... and see if they start to show some signs of chronic mercury toxicity over the course of their lives..

well, I just went on a long, long post here just to communicate what my thoughts were after I read the story/report... and how that makes me feel about consuming some of the fish we catch from our local waters. I really do enjoy fishing with my family... and will probably continue to enjoy a tasty striper or two... but as for the Mrs. when she might be pregnant... hmmm... maybe not. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how certain drugs, chemicals, etc. can lead to horrible conditions like fetal alcohol syndrome, cocaine-dependent babies, etc.

I don't think the study will really have an impact on older folks and guys here... and it seems like most of my fellow FNNers here either don't care or believe anything this study has to say. And besides, even if something were to start happening to you or me when we get much older after consuming a bunch of mercury or PCB contaminated fish over our lifetime, we'll just say it's because we're getting old or blame it on the wife

sure there are lots of things out there that are bad for you... everything can kill you... or lead to one's earlier demise... high cholesterol leading to heart disease, high salt intake leading to hypertension and stroke/CV disease, etc. etc., the list goes on and on... I guess what you do with the information out there is up to everyone... there are some great things that have come out of evidence-based medicine over the past century... and perhaps one should take some of what this particular study recommends... with at least just a single grain of salt, if none at all....

[DockRat]

I can only imagine what goes on with the people who catch/eat those carp from the LA River all the time...

The snaggers in Long Beach sell there Carp to local Filipinos.
Then they feed there children.

Lots of FNNers eat those tasty Salton Sea Tilapia that is fed from the New River that comes from Mexico and is the most polluted river in N America.