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View Poll Results: Guns or no Guns

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  • Pro Firearms

    40 93.02%
  • Anti Guns

    3 6.98%
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Thread: Here come the anti gun people.......

  1. #51
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    Crockett Keller, Texas Gun Store Owner, Offers Teachers Discount After Newtown Shooting
    Posted: 12/17/2012 3:43 pm EST | Updated: 12/17/2012 6:27 pm EST

    Business NewsOne outspoken Texas gun store owner is offering local teachers a 10 percent discount to attend his concealed carry handgun classes in light of the Newtown, Conn., tragedy.

    "I was stunned, but not necessarily shocked, when I heard what happened [in Newtown]," said Crockett Keller, who owns Keller's Riverside Store in Mason, Texas. "I thought, 'There we go again, another gun-free zone.' What would have happened had there been a teacher with a handgun or a principal with some sort of defense training?"

    Politicians have been promising to crack down on guns after 20-year-old Adam Lanza murdered 26 people -- including 20 children -- at Sandy Hook Elementary on Friday. On Sunday, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) announced plans to introduce a bill that would ban assault weapons, and on Monday even staunch political supporters of the National Rifle Association were adjusting their tones.

    But Keller disagrees -- fewer guns won't make for a safer society, he said. "The solution is not to take away our guns," Keller said. "Personal safety is everyone's responsibility, and if we're armed we can be forces of good in the world even when the police aren't present." Keller said his customers are stocking up in fear of new legislation curbing gun ownership.

    According to Keller, human nature will always contain a violent streak, with or without guns. "It's better for the righteous law-abiding people to be armed and win over the criminals," he said. After announcing the discount for teachers this weekend, Keller said he hasn't had any teachers enroll in his class -- yet.

    Not all gun store owners think arming more people is the solution. Chris Watson, the general manager of a gun store in northeast Georgia, said he would personally turn away anyone who came into his store this week trying to stock up in fear of new gun control legislation spurred by the Newtown tragedy. "Now's not the moment to think about yourself when 20 kids are dead," said Watson.

    This isn't the first time Keller has made the news: last year, the Texan attracted attention for an ad that aired on a country music station saying his shop would not offer concealed carry handgun classes to the following categories of people: "socialist liberal and/or voted for the current campaigner-in-chief" or "non-Christian Arab or Muslim."


    Keller doesn't oppose liberals entirely -- "I'm happy to have a polite discussion and agree to disagree," he said -- but he noted that he attributes certain social problems like mass shootings to the rise of progressive beliefs. "One of the factors to blame for this situation [in Newtown] is the atheist movement," Keller said. "God has been taken out of our culture. The current generation can't distinguish between good and evil."Keller said he intended the ad's comments to be humorous. "I wrote the ad myself and thought it didn't have enough pizazz, so I thought I'd take a jab at some of my liberal acquaintances," he said. "Then it blew up. All of the sudden my colloquial ad wasn't colloquial any longer." Keller now sells t-shirts printed with some of the ad's text at his store, along with the new and used rifles, machine guns and silencers he offers to buyers who meet the legal requirements for gun ownership.

    "When I was a young student in public school, we prayed regularly," said Keller, now 66. "Schools should provide a moral compass to people who can't get it at home."

    Keller's comments echo those of some conservative politicians in response to the shooting. In an interview with Fox News on Friday, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee linked the tragedy to the fact that Americans have

    "systematically removed God from our schools." Huckabee added, "Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?"




    http://www.huffingto...tml?ir=Business

  2. #52
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    Why is this not in the news ?
    DR



    Another mass shooting; gunman opens fire in San Antonio: UPDATE
    8:35 AM EST 12/17/2012 by Terry Shropshire1,725 Views SHARE


    Police and media report that two people were shot late Sunday when a gunman opened fire at the Santikos Mayan Palace 14 movie theater Sunday night in San Antonio, sending panicked moviegoers rushing to exits and ducking for cover. It is also causing frazzled nerves of citizens nationwide who have yet to come to grips with the unimaginable shooting tragedy perpetrated at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., and the theater shooting deaths in suburban Denver.

    Jesus Manuel Garcia, 19, an employee at the China Garden restaurant, apparently became upset Sunday night after his girlfriend broke up with him, reports the San Antonio Express-News.

    Here is an account of the story, according to mysanantonio.com, that took place after Garcia became heartbroken over being let go by his girlfriend:

    He lashed out by sending her a message saying he planned to go to the restaurant and “shoot somebody,” said Bexar County sheriff’s Sgt. Raymond Pollard.

    Pollard said the woman called to warn restaurant employees, but by the time she saw his message, Garcia was already outside the China Garden firing a Glock 23 at the front door about 9:25 p.m.

    Garcia went inside, chased people out the back door, and followed one employee as he ran toward the theater, apparently because he was the easiest target, Pollard said.

    “He was chasing him, shooting in the air and at other cars,” Pollard said.

    He said that when a San Antonio police officer heard the gunshots and pulled into the theater’s parking lot, Garcia shot out his patrol car’s windshield.

    Garcia then pursued the employee into the theater, firing more shots when he reached the lobby, Pollard said.

    One of the shots struck a patron in the back, but the bullet did not strike any vital organs and the man was released from San Antonio Military Medical Center later Sunday night.

    Bexar County sheriff’s Sgt. Lisa Castellano, who was working off-duty as a security guard at the Mayan Palace, chased the gunman toward the back of the theater. The 13-year department veteran cornered him after he ran into a men’s restroom, shooting him several times and taking his gun, Pollard said.

    Armando Olguin, an off-duty San Antonio Independent School District police officer, restrained him using the sergeant’s handcuffs, Pollard said.

    Garcia was rushed to SAMMC, where he was in stable condition in the intensive care unit Monday.

    One witness, Tara Grace, was in line to get drinks when she heard the firecracker-like sounds ring out and instinctively ran into the bathroom and locked herself in a stall with five other moviegoers.

    “We thought we were going to die,” she said.

    A person at the scene, an employee from a different location of the restaurant, said the gunman initially may have targeted a co-worker before making his way to the theater, though Antu could not confirm a motive immediately.

    The shooting immediately sparked fears of the bloodbath in July that killed 12 people and injured 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.

    Cassandra Castillo, whose son is a projectionist at the theater, was frantic as she waited outside the theater for her son.

    “It brings back memories of the other theater shooting, and the elementary school shooting,” she said. “You only think the worst.”

  3. #53
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    Um, GOOD guy with a gun takes down a BAD guy with a gun. Yip no news here, move on.

  4. #54
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    Aussie Gun Ban = Fail.


  5. #55
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    Chicago: 446 school age children shot so far this year
    with strongest gun laws in country – media silent

    By Clash Daily / 19 December 2012 / 7 Comments

    The cesspool known as Chicago probably has the toughest gun laws in the country, yet despite all the shootings, murders, and bloodshed, you never hear a peep about this from the corrupt state run media. In Chicago, there have been 446 school age children shot in leftist utopia run by Rahm Emanuel and that produced Obama, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan, etc. 62 school aged children have actually been killed by crazed nuts in Chicago so far this year with almost two weeks to go. So why isn’t this news worthy? Is it because it would embarrass those anti second amendment nuts who brag about Chicago’s tough gun laws? Is it because most of the kids who were shot and killed were minorities? Or is it because the corrupt media doesn’t want to show Chicago in a bad light?

    THE LIST OF MURDERED SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN 2012
    18 YEARS OLD- 15

    17 YEARS OLD- 16

    16 YEARS OLD- 16

    15 YEARS OLD- 6

    14 YEARS OLD- 4

    13 YEARS OLD- 2

    12 YEARS OLD- 1

    7 YEARS OLD- 1

    6 YEARS OLD- 1

    446 School Age Children Shot in Chicago so Far This Year
    THE LIST OF SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN SHOT IN 2012

    18 year old- 110

    17 year old- 99

    16 year old- 89

    15 year old- 62

    14 year old- 39

    13 year old- 21

    12 year old- 10

    11 year old- 2

    10 year old- 3

    9 year old- 1

    7 year old- 3

    6 year old- 2

    5 year old- 1

    4 year old- 1

    3 year old- 1

    1 year old- 2

    Read more at fireandreamitchell.com


    Read more: http://clashdaily.co.../#ixzz2Fb8qTqEM

  6. #56
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    Here are the facts the MSM does not want to print or tell ya:

    Gun Crimes In the United States - Just the Facts

    James M. Woodward - Dec. 2012


    In 2011, Homicide was only 16th in leading causes of death in the US, Suicide is the 10th in the nation (http://goo.gl/vQqEj). You are far more likely to lose someone if they pick up a cigarette (438/day, http://goo.gl/iJQRU or (135/day, http://goo.gl/po24U) for those who inhale secondhand smoke, or even if they step into a car (95/day, http://goo.gl/8RgVI).


    It’s times like these that I feel it’s important to remind people of the facts about gun related crimes. The media likes to take an aggressive stance against certain types of weapons because it’s a sensationalist topic that will sell. However, there is much that is not presented which leaves their representation of statistics with a great bias.


    2009:

    Number of firearm homicides: 11,493 (3.7 incidents per 100,000 - http://goo.gl/vQqEj) - CDC/DoVS

    Number of firearm murders: 9,146 (2.98 incidents per 100,000 - http://goo.gl/AE0dq) - FBI

    Number of suicide firearm deaths: 18,735 (6.1 incidents per 100,000 - http://goo.gl/vQqEj - 2.04x times the number of murders)


    2010:

    Number of firearm homicides: 11,015 (3.6 incidents per 100,000 - http://goo.gl/bu0bt) - CDC/DoVS

    Number of firearm murders: 8,775 (2.84 incidents per 100,000 - http://goo.gl/AE0dq) - FBI

    Number of suicide firearm deaths: 19,308 (6.3 incidents per 100,000 - http://goo.gl/bu0bt - 2.20x times the number of murders)


    2011:

    Number of firearm homicides: 11,101 (3.6 / 100,000 - http://goo.gl/8RgVI) - CDC/DoVS

    Number of firearm murders: 8,583 (2.75 / 100,000 - http://goo.gl/AE0dq) - FBI

    Number of suicide firearm deaths: 19,766 (6.3/100,000 - http://goo.gl/8RgVI - 2.30x times the number of murders)

    The difference between the homicides and murders implies a higher accidental death rate. Murders still declined.


    Homicides and suicide firearm deaths are two statistics that are often reported together to increase the shock value of the firearm death rate. Firearm murders are on a decline (as reported by the FBI, Bureau of Justice, etc.) yet suicides are on the rise. It’s a distinction that should be made as they just don’t qualify as the same coverage (http://goo.gl/zqJuA) and reporting them as such is a misrepresentation of the overall statistics.


    The statistics (in brief demonstrated here) shows there is a larger problem with suicide rate in the country. However, I feel the confines of this paper are not suitable for the mental health discussion as it could be had by itself. Lastly, If someone needs help (1-800-273-8255) they should have a way to get it, but that doesn’t mean that everyone will seek assistance.


    Contrary to popular belief, the most common weapon used is not an assault rifle. In fact, the 2011 FBI murder report (http://goo.gl/LcT8v) details 12,664 murders, 6,220 (49%) of them were committed with handguns, knives totalled up to 1,694 (13.3%) and fists accounted for yet another 3.9%. Rifles came in in absolute last with 323 murders (2.5%), excluding unknown weapons. This is further backed up by California's 2009 report which explicitly lists the bullets used by frequency (http://goo.gl/RYG0e). The most common were the 9mm handgun round at more than double the use of the 2nd place round, the .22 rifle (or occasionally handgun) round. Traditional assault rifle rounds (7.62mm & .223”) were in last place for usage. On the same Justice Bureau website (http://goo.gl/qccOz) we read; “During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun, and about 2%, a military-style semiautomatic gun." These statistics align with the FBI's 2.5% rifle usage rate in it’s 2011 "About Gun Crime in the U.S" report, mentioned above (http://goo.gl/XpFiF).


    Quoting the Justice Bureau's webpage once again, (http://goo.gl/qccOz); "Firearm-related crime has plummeted since 1993" and a 1997 prison survey highlights the fact that illegal firearm sources most often come from “family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source” 80% of the time, contrary to common media misrepresentation that Gun Shows contribute many firearms, which were only listed as 2% of the response.


    Another statistic rarely mentioned is the ratio at which gun crime occurs to gun ownership. In the United States, there are estimated to be 270 Million firearms, both licit and illicit, in the hands of private citizens (http://goo.gl/i2ifW). Compared to the number of weapons used in a murder (See: FBI Report 2011) that occurred last year is 0.003178%. That’s 3.17 per 100,000. Previous years (citing the same page), show that this is a continued decrease from each prior year:

    2006:5.70, 2007:5.61, 2008:5.35, 2009:4.96, 2010:4.6

    Verifying this information, the FBI Murder statistics show a steady decline every year starting at 10,150 in 2005 (beginning of the report) and ending at 8,583 reports in 2011: http://goo.gl/P5D5q


    All these statistics demonstrate that attention grabbing issues are nothing more than distractions from the real problem; Handgun and gang violence that the press has long since moved past. In this FBI spreadsheet on gang activity it is apparent that handgun usage is on the rise, and hasn’t seen a drop in gang related homicide activity, (raw numbers: http://goo.gl/OxvrZ, chart: http://goo.gl/ZR5ih). We mostly see high publicity events that grab media attention, while the majority of gun violence is statistically carried out with illegally obtained handguns not assault weapons, (and not in schools) however those more common issues don't garner press attention. A fine example, is that the death toll from all mass shootings (30 over 13 years) since Columbine (273, http://goo.gl/J2oMJ) are surpassed by drive-by shooting deaths in Los Angeles, in a single year (275, http://goo.gl/qYSQJ).


    I do not seek to trivialize the horrific nature of the mass shootings that have occurred in our society but to suggest alternate means of handling their occurrence. As a society, we (and particularly the press) often have knee jerk reactions to extremist situations when there are much, much larger problems occurring, (daily even) that aren't pushed at us with such tenacity. As such I'll side with Roger Ebert and his recent article. If we stop placing the killers in the limelight, perhaps they won't be frequent. We shouldn't remember and glorify the names of those that stormed Columbine yet forget the victims; http://goo.gl/6UmOg

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew95 View Post
    This is why I don't feel too bad when I hear about a cop getting killed on the news. However I have to say I am furious when I hear about a cop killing/beating an innocent person, like you hear about quite often.
    Just read this entire thread and only learned one new thing... andrew95, you truly are a DUMB**** and people like YOU are why I have a hard time visiting this section anymore!!! Of course, 95 probably stands for the year you were born so you're just a young know-it-all PUNK that can't help it anyway!!!

    Guns are not the problem, it's the crazy and criminally insane F****S that get their hands on them and kill innocent people!!! Why the F*** can't they just put a bullet in their own heads?! Oh I know why, because they're F*****G COWARDS!!!! 2nd Ammendment Rights will stand the test of time... Thank you Fore-Fathers!!!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawgStalker View Post
    Just read this entire thread and only learned one new thing... andrew95, you truly are a DUMB**** and people like YOU are why I have a hard time visiting this section anymore!!! Of course, 95 probably stands for the year you were born so you're just a young know-it-all PUNK that can't help it anyway!!!

    Guns are not the problem, it's the crazy and criminally insane F****S that get their hands on them and kill innocent people!!! Why the F*** can't they just put a bullet in their own heads?! Oh I know why, because they're F*****G COWARDS!!!! 2nd Ammendment Rights will stand the test of time... Thank you Fore-Fathers!!!
    Well said HS...

    A few things need to be clear. First, the Founders of this nation did not put the 2nd Amendment in place to protect deer hunting. Second, the Bill of Rights is not a list of rights granted us by the government. The rights listed exist sans government. This document points them out lest the people in government forget. Third, when you hear that this is a republic and not a democracy that is not merely rhetoric. There is a stark difference between the two forms of governance. In a Constitutional Republic, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and may not be altered by a mere vote of the government. The majority does not have the power to remove rights from the minority…and some rights are unalienable, meaning they are not in the purview of governments.

    The 2nd Amendment is there to insure the other ones are not usurped. It is there to make certain that any government we elect doesn’t become tyrannical or dictatorial. It is not there for hunters or even self-defense of our home from crime. It is there to provide protection from government seeking to take away freedom and liberty from the people. The Bill of Rights in its entirety will be protected by whatever means become necessary. That there are forces within our nation who have decided that our rights no longer serve them is immaterial to the existence of my right to bear arms. This is not a debate.

    I am not interested in the give and take of opinions about basic rights. Another's opinion of my basic rights doesn’t matter to me. You don’t have a say in whether I have free speech or the right of self-determination. It was a violent revolution that put the government out of the “granting rights” business. It will take another such action to change that.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by HawgZWylde View Post
    Well said HS...

    A few things need to be clear. First, the Founders of this nation did not put the 2nd Amendment in place to protect deer hunting. Second, the Bill of Rights is not a list of rights granted us by the government. The rights listed exist sans government. This document points them out lest the people in government forget. Third, when you hear that this is a republic and not a democracy that is not merely rhetoric. There is a stark difference between the two forms of governance. In a Constitutional Republic, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and may not be altered by a mere vote of the government. The majority does not have the power to remove rights from the minority…and some rights are unalienable, meaning they are not in the purview of governments.

    The 2nd Amendment is there to insure the other ones are not usurped. It is there to make certain that any government we elect doesn’t become tyrannical or dictatorial. It is not there for hunters or even self-defense of our home from crime. It is there to provide protection from government seeking to take away freedom and liberty from the people. The Bill of Rights in its entirety will be protected by whatever means become necessary. That there are forces within our nation who have decided that our rights no longer serve them is immaterial to the existence of my right to bear arms. This is not a debate.

    I am not interested in the give and take of opinions about basic rights. Another's opinion of my basic rights doesn’t matter to me. You don’t have a say in whether I have free speech or the right of self-determination. It was a violent revolution that put the government out of the “granting rights” business. It will take another such action to change that.
    Think back to prohibition or slavery. The ability to change the Constitution is written into it by the founders. Saying what you believe has nothing whatsoever to do with our ability to change the Constitution. Most would argue that slavery always is and was "unconstitutional". Yet it was written into the Constitution by the founders. The founders understood that times change and sometimes necessitate changes to the Constitution. That's why it's written as it is...

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcuser View Post
    Think back to prohibition or slavery. The ability to change the Constitution is written into it by the founders. Saying what you believe has nothing whatsoever to do with our ability to change the Constitution. Most would argue that slavery always is and was "unconstitutional". Yet it was written into the Constitution by the founders. The founders understood that times change and sometimes necessitate changes to the Constitution. That's why it's written as it is...
    Article V of the Constitution spells out the processes by which amendments can be proposed and ratified.

    To Propose Amendments

    In the U.S. Congress, both the House of Representatives and the Senate approve by a two-thirds supermajority vote, a joint resolution amending the Constitution. Amendments so approved do not require the signature of the President of the United States and are sent directly to the states for ratification.

    Two-thirds of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments. (This method has never been used.)

    To Ratify Amendments

    Three-fourths of the state legislatures approve it, or

    Ratifying conventions in three-fourths of the states approve it. This method has been used only once -- to ratify the 21st Amendment -- repealing Prohibition.

    This, pcuser, will never legitimately happen regarding the second amendment. You will never disarm law abiding Americans. I know your ideology requires it's civilians to be fully submissive to it's government rulers, and that my friend, will never happen in America. Your use of prohibition and slavery is absolutely ridiculous, apples and oranges really, and has nothing to do with civilian Americans of all cultures having absolute control over it's government and not the other way around. As a matter of fact, prohibition is a great example of just that, worked out great didn't it? Now how do you suppose it would work out regarding a civilians right to protect his life and freedoms against an armed gang or a tyrannical, totalitarian government? Are you going to be one of those people going door to door and demanding their firearms? I didn't think so.

    I assure you the founders would never agree to disarming the American people. Revisionist much user?

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