Prop 30

[DEVOREFLYER]

Well I guess all libs ain't sheep after all. Well I'll be damned. Nice that you can think for yourself quagga. I'll be damned.

[Lady Quagga]

Why are you voting no on numbers 30 and 38, Lady Quagga? I would expect you to vote yes on 30, at least, given how you are standing up for liberals on this site. I heard that 38 would tax people with incomes as low as $7000 for educational funding, so I not sure how I will vote on that one.

Anyone who has bothered to read my opinions knows that I do not identify myself as a conservative or a liberal.

In my opinion, Prop. 30 should have been written as two separate initiatives - but that's beside the point. At best, it postpones what really needs to happen - which is a thorough examination and overhaul of the state's budget.

I am a strong supporter of public schools and educators. I believe we need a serious reform of our state's public education system. Prop. 38 throws money at the problem without any sort of reform.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Wow, quagga I am still in agreement with ya on this, imagine that. What a shock, just shocked.

[City Dad]

Education is for suckers!!! Right now LAUSD has class sizes up around 30 per room - LET'S shoot for 50!!! Kids are small, they'll fit..

[Lady Quagga]

Education is for suckers!!! Right now LAUSD has class sizes up around 30 per room - LET'S shoot for 50!!! Kids are small, they'll fit..

Damn you CD, next you'll be trying to steal my classroom bleachers idea....

[DockRat]

PROP 30

TEMPORARY TAXES TO FUND EDUCATION.
GUARANTEED LOCAL PUBLIC SAFETY FUNDING.
INITIATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.
SUMMARY
Put on the Ballot by Petition Signatures

Increases taxes on earnings over $250,000 for seven years and sales taxes by ¼ cent for four years, to fund schools. Guarantees public safety realignment funding. Fiscal Impact: Increased state tax revenues through 2018–19, averaging about $6 billion annually over the next few years. Revenues available for funding state budget. In 2012–13, planned spending reductions, primarily to education programs, would not occur.
WHAT YOUR VOTE MEANS

YES A YES vote on this measure means: The state would increase personal income taxes on high-income taxpayers for seven years and sales taxes for four years. The new tax revenues would be available to fund programs in the state budget.

NO A NO vote on this measure means: The state would not increase personal income taxes or sales taxes. State spending reductions, primarily to education programs, would take effect in 2012–13.
ARGUMENTS

PRO After years of cuts to schools and public safety, it’s time to take a stand. Prop. 30 asks the wealthiest to temporarily pay more to prevent deep school cuts, provide billions in new education funding, guarantee local public safety and help balance the state budget. Learn more at YesOnProp30.com.

CON NO on 30—$50 billion in higher sales and income taxes, but no guarantee of additional money for schools. Prop. 30 doesn’t reform schools, pensions or cut waste and bureaucracy. We’ll never know where the money really goes. Educators, small businesses and taxpayer groups say NO on 30.

[etucker1959]

PROP 30

TEMPORARY TAXES TO FUND EDUCATION.
GUARANTEED LOCAL PUBLIC SAFETY FUNDING.
INITIATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.
SUMMARY
Put on the Ballot by Petition Signatures

Increases taxes on earnings over $250,000 for seven years and sales taxes by ¼ cent for four years, to fund schools. Guarantees public safety realignment funding. Fiscal Impact: Increased state tax revenues through 2018–19, averaging about $6 billion annually over the next few years. Revenues available for funding state budget. In 2012–13, planned spending reductions, primarily to education programs, would not occur.
WHAT YOUR VOTE MEANS

YES A YES vote on this measure means: The state would increase personal income taxes on high-income taxpayers for seven years and sales taxes for four years. The new tax revenues would be available to fund programs in the state budget.

NO A NO vote on this measure means: The state would not increase personal income taxes or sales taxes. State spending reductions, primarily to education programs, would take effect in 2012–13.
ARGUMENTS

PRO After years of cuts to schools and public safety, it’s time to take a stand. Prop. 30 asks the wealthiest to temporarily pay more to prevent deep school cuts, provide billions in new education funding, guarantee local public safety and help balance the state budget. Learn more at YesOnProp30.com.

CON NO on 30—$50 billion in higher sales and income taxes, but no guarantee of additional money for schools. Prop. 30 doesn’t reform schools, pensions or cut waste and bureaucracy. We’ll never know where the money really goes. Educators, small businesses and taxpayer groups say NO on 30.

Good job DocRat!!!!! Read it for yourself, which arugment makes more sense to you the reader.

[etucker1959]

Etucker, actually, I heard a lady go over the propositions on a liberal radio station, and she only recommended voting yes on about half of them. I haven't been over them that thoroughly yet myself, but her analysis seemed reasonable and she is the head of a liberal group. I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or what with your previous reply.

Devore Flyer, one of the problems with your post, you suggested yourself when you said that private schools recruit high school athletes and pay their tuitions. There actually isn't much difference in performance between private and public schools, and what there is, is attributable to the fact that private schools are able to attract a higher caliber of students in the first place. Thus, it's the students, not the teachers. As any teacher can tell you, anybody can get great results with a room full of Harvard students, but the challenge is to teach something worthwhile to kids who aren't into school, whose parents aren't into school and aren't well educate themselves.

Second, "bad teachers" are rare. Teachers are doing a better job under the circumstances than you give them credit for, and they certainly aren't paid very well to do their job, regardless of the relative ranking of California teachers (where the cost of living is higher than in most places). The educational curriculum has changed over time; it must evolve to keep up with technology and society. I would say that is a kind of reform. There are also many researchers studying what teaching techniques work, and working on implementing them. Thus, I find vague references to "reform" of the educational system particularly unimpressive. What we really need is a major change in our culture. We need to value education the way that Asians do, rather than derogating it the way that too many Americans do. Then, our schools would get excellent results. But without adequate funding, they can never improve. Do you really expect that schools will do better with less money?

And yes, Skyler, money is the problem. It is directly traceable to Prop. 13, and several documentaries and invstigative articles have done so. Ever since Prop. 13 passed, funding for schools has diminished, and consequently, California's public schools have deteriorated.

I was being sarcastic, because most tight wad Republicans vote no on everything if it cost them one single dime. By the way nice response!!!!!

[City Dad]

!@#$%^&* you CD, next you'll be trying to steal my classroom bleachers idea....

Good thinkers think... great thinkers steal.

Ever see "Waiting for Superman"? I think it's almost as informative on the subject of public education as this thread.

If anyone is sincerely interested in the topic of our failing school system check it out (sorry, no nudity.)

[Skyler]

Why is it that our scores were so great back in the 80's, when all we had was a teacher and some text books? We didn't have half the funding then under Reagan. Yet our literacy rates were higher, drop out rates lower, and overall test scores were better. It's not money that makes a kid learn. It is a genuine desire to learn. Throw all the money you want at the situation. It won't matter when you are letting an xbox raise your kid.