Who are you going to vote for?

[pcuser]

I'll tell you where I got the number. I was watching a political discusion on TV over the weekend and the experts quoted that figure. So doing simple math of the size of PENN and the other states with voter ID laws, I would say it's safe to say were talking millions of voters would be affected. Now here is the 64,000 dollar question, WITH THE VOTER ID LAW HOW MANY FRAUDLENT VOTERS WOULD YOU STOP. I still have not heard any estimates at all (WHY) I'm guessing because the number would be so low in comparison to the amount of people disfranchised even the republicans would be EMBARRASSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you see no numbers because it's really hard to find instances of real voter fraud. As you say, there's little to be gained by in person voter fraud. So it rarely happens. Certainly not to the point of being remotely relevant. I actually have heard numbers a few times and they were absurdly low, especially in relation to the total votes cast. They probable were cast by outlyers.

[etucker1959]

Originally Posted by etucker1959
conservatives by nature are the ones who always live in fear.
lmao

I know you might not like the following and might not believe it, but I will put it out there anyway. I also won't site my sources as it comes from multiple disciplines and would be time consuming and complex to follow. That isn't a knock. It is hard for anyone not involved in the research to follow in detail. Also, there is no judgement about this. It just is what it is. The fields this data comes from are neuroscience, genetics, and epigenetics, among others. There is also carryover from other research areas as is often the case in cutting edge science. Scientists have found genes and gene expressions that predispose people with this gene set to be generally fearful with no specific focus. They have also started mapping circuits in the brain that cause generalized anxiety. The gene set mentioned above also tends to be found in self identified conservatives and Republicans. Again, this isn't a knock against anybody. It's just descriptive of differences in groups. I'm sure there will be things that might be uncomfortable for other groups, including self identified progressives and Democrats. This research is moving forward quickly for several important reasons, including but not limited to health care. If one wants to find a good overview of much of this research, a good place to start would be to watch the program Through The Wormhole narrated by Morgan Freeman. It presents cutting edge research results in whatever field it is covering in a given program.

I read what you said and I agree with you, but I will put it in simplier terms. I read two articules on the same subject, one in the LA times and the other one on my Yahoo start page. Both articules said about the same thing, conservatives are born that way by the size of their (I can't spell the scientific part of the brain) but it's the part that controls fear and anxiety. If you don't believe that think about what conservatives believe in. Big military (why) we fear people in other countrys. Large police forces (why) we fear each other. Long prison sentences (why) they already proven to me their dangerous. Lots of prisons (why) because we need a place to house the people we fear. Guns (why) we need to protect ourselves from the people we fear. Capital punishment (why) we need to kill the people we fear. Do you know the U.S. has more people in Jail and prison then any other country in the world. (why) because we have too many conservatives.

[pcuser]

A political discussion on TV on what channel? And who were the experts?

Guessing is not fact based...

Simply because one doesn't recall specific names of experts doesn't mean he is making stuff up. Usually, the experts are people out of the public eye and aren't household names. That doesn't make them any less credible. Now, if you are saying etucker1959 is lying. That's a different discussion perhaps not worthy of this board.

[pcuser]

And sometimes people ignore the painfully obvious; keep their heads in the sand, ears plugged, and chanting loudly so they can't hear what's being said. So what's your point?

Well, assume I'm really wearing earplugs, have my head in the sand, and I'm chanting. That still doesn't change the science I'm writing about. The most you can say is the science doesn't pan out the way it seems to be heading. That doesn't make it false reporting. Also, since the result appears in results from different studies from different fields actually makes it more likely to be real. Time will tell...

[HawgZWylde]

Simply because one doesn't recall specific names of experts doesn't mean he is making stuff up. Usually, the experts are people out of the public eye and aren't household names. That doesn't make them any less credible. Now, if you are saying etucker1959 is lying. That's a different discussion perhaps not worthy of this board.

I didn't say he was lying. And he didn't say he couldn't recall anything, he hasn't responded yet. I just want to know what TV channel he was watching and who the so called "experts" are for credibility purposes. He is the one who said he is guessing...

[Lady Quagga]

I have this weird feeling that if you were on a enviornmentalist forum(if i spelled that right) you would look like just as much of an idiot as you claim the lefts on this forum to be. Im just saying a subject on a forum like this is going to always be in the rights favor because theres obviously going to be more rights.

Absolutely. The right-leaning members of this forum are validated by their peers. It doesn't make their opinions any more (or less) valid. Facts and statistics may support their argument, but likewise don't make their opinions any more (or less) valid. Visit a liberal forum, and you would see the exact same circumstances - and the same rules would apply.

I read what you said and I agree with you, but I will put it in simplier terms. I read two articules on the same subject, one in the LA times and the other one on my Yahoo start page. Both articules said about the same thing, conservatives are born that way by the size of their (I can't spell the scientific part of the brain) but it's the part that controls fear and anxiety.

I don't know if I agree with this. I don't know how much nature versus nurture defines one's politics, but I lean away from any theory of political predisposition. However, I will agree that a great deal of American politics is FUD-based. The majority of people in this country will being going about their lives in the same way - tomorrow, a year from now, and four years from now. The political make-up of Washington will have little significant bearing on their immediate condition. So how do you rouse an otherwise indifferent populace into action? Why, you tell them tales of woe, of course!

[HawgZWylde]

The Communist Takeover Of America
45 Declared Goals
Current Communist Goals
January 10, 1963

Prepare to be shocked at the goals that have already been reached since the Communist goals were written and presented in 1963. Fifty seven years later, we have people in our government at all levels who are ardently trying to implement and complete the remaining items. These attempts at transforming our nation are in full swing and are being recognized and exposed. Others are under the radar and have remained closeted. Take a long look at this list and see how many are in the process of being pushed through as bills or are recognizable now. Many were exposed within the first year of this administration i.e., rewriting educational literature and reinterpreting history in school books.

Obama was elected on a couple words, hope and change. If citizens had known that his change meant establishing, implementing, and installing communist goals and destroying our way of life, they wouldn’t have voted for Obama. If voters fully understood what the Progressives /Communists had in mind, do you think Obama would be the squatter in the White House now?

“Progressive” was the term communists used after the McCarthy era (1945 – 1960), and it is still used today. If you will remember Hillary Clinton identified herself as a “Modern Progressive.” This should give Hilliary supporters pause when they wonder why she took the Secretary of State position within this administration.

According to Wiki, “The Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) is the largest caucus within the Democratic caucus in the United States Congress with 82 Declared Progressives including 79 voting Representatives, 2 non-voting delegates (Donna Christensen Virgin Islands and Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of Columbia), and 1 Senator (Bernie Sanders, Vermont).” They work to advance progressive issues and positions.

This group was founded in 1991 by five members of the House. They said they were “organized around the principles of social and economic justice, a non-discriminatory society, and national priorities which represent the interests of all people, not just the wealthy and powerful.”

According to its website, the CPC advocates “universal access to affordable, high quality healthcare, fair trade agreements, living wage laws, the right of all workers to organize into labor unions and engage in collective bargaining, the abolition of significant portions of the USA Patriot Act, the legalization of same-sex marriage, strict campaign finance reform laws, a complete pullout from the war in Iraq, a crackdown on corporate welfare and influence, an increase in income tax rates on the wealthy, tax cuts for the poor, and an increase in welfare spending by the federal government.”

Additionally, when the Soviet Union collapsed, many of the former communists became environmentalists, and they are found in the Green Movement now associated with the scam artist, Al Gore, and most recently Van Jones, Obama’s “Green Jobs” czar, who left the White House in the dark of the night. There are many connections between the communists and the environmental/green movement. It is my understanding that the environmental movement was founded by members of the United Nations.

Who are Obama’s Communists?

A few Progressives are easily recognized such as Ed Markey (MA) and Henry Waxman (CA), who co-authored the Cap and Trade bill. Barney Frank is presently trying to pass the universal voting bill. Barney was most responsible for allowing the meltdown of Frannie and Freddie. The outspoken and brash Alan Grayson (FL) who stated in front of Congress that Republicans “wanted people to die” and that is why they were not supporting the Healthcare bill. Neil Abercrombie (HI) recently announced his resignation to run for governor of Hawaii. He was a friend of Barack Obama Sr. Jan Schakowsky (IL) is married to Robert Creamer who wrote the Healthcare bible while in prison and who claimed he was helping the poor when he embezzeled monies. Dennis Kucinich (OH) is often seen sparing with FOX anchors.

Of the 42 Congressional Black Caucus members, 31 are members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. A few of the better known members are: Barbara Lee (CA), Maxine Waters (CA), Bobby Rush (IL), and Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL). John Conyers (MI) made the statements that it was the “powers that be” that stopped the investigation of ACORN, and his wife was recently convicted of felonies. Charlie Rangle (NY-Harlem) is on the Judicial Review’s Most Corrupt Policitican’s list. Donald Payne (NJ), Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX- Houston), and Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-Dallas) are some other members.

Nancy Pelosi (CA) left the Progressive Caucus when she was elected House Minority Leader. Hilda Solis became the Secretary of Labor in 2009. I didn’t see a listing for Harry Reid, but his actions say he is totally in tune with the Progressives. He is most likely undeclared.

With the election of Scott Brown to the Senate, universal health care or socialized medicine will be stopped. This has been one of the major goals of the Progressives, and was the pivot point of their agenda.

To complete the transformation of our nation, the Progressives needed to take over health care and destroy our economy. The outrage and protesting shown by the Tea Parties and the voters in New Jersey, Virginia, and Massachusetts are saving us from the fate of a communist takeover. It is our vigilance and close attention to these enemies that must continue. Their goal is and will remain the takeover of the USA. We will not let it happen. These are chilling if they are compared to events during the last year. There is no question as to why the public was ignored and bills and activities were handled at warp speed without regard to the public’s choices. There is no question as to why there were backroom deals and secret meetings. There is no question as to why they always dropped bomb shell news on Fridays. There is no question as to the agenda of this administration. Once you have reviewed these goals, you will understand. There will only be one question left to answer, Why? Just Why.
45 Communist Goals to Take Over the USA

Remarks of Hon. A. S. Herlong, Jr. of Florida in the House of Representatives on Thursday, January 10, 1963.

Mr. HERLONG: Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America. At Mrs. Nordman’s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen: A list of 45 goals that found their way down the halls of our great Capitol back in 1963.

“The Naked Communist”

by Cleon Skousen

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war. [Note: change this to nuclear war to update it.]

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a One-World Government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a “religious crutch.”

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities (1938–1975) .

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use “united force” to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

[HawgStalker]

I read what you said and I agree with you, but I will put it in simplier terms. I read two articules on the same subject, one in the LA times and the other one on my Yahoo start page. Both articules said about the same thing, conservatives are born that way by the size of their (I can't spell the scientific part of the brain) but it's the part that controls fear and anxiety. If you don't believe that think about what conservatives believe in. Big military (why) we fear people in other countrys. Large police forces (why) we fear each other. Long prison sentences (why) they already proven to me their dangerous. Lots of prisons (why) because we need a place to house the people we fear. Guns (why) we need to protect ourselves from the people we fear. Capital punishment (why) we need to kill the people we fear. Do you know the U.S. has more people in Jail and prison then any other country in the world. (why) because we have too many conservatives.

Yeah.... It couldn't be because of the amount of crime we have in this country moron!!!! Oh and because most of the people that commit those crimes that end up in those prisons are "liberals"! If you catch my drift?! You truly are an IDIOT but that's okay... You can't help it! It's that small part of your brain that controls your thought process!!!

[pcuser]

I read what you said and I agree with you, but I will put it in simplier terms. I read two articules on the same subject, one in the LA times and the other one on my Yahoo start page. Both articules said about the same thing, conservatives are born that way by the size of their (I can't spell the scientific part of the brain) but it's the part that controls fear and anxiety. If you don't believe that think about what conservatives believe in. Big military (why) we fear people in other countrys. Large police forces (why) we fear each other. Long prison sentences (why) they already proven to me their dangerous. Lots of prisons (why) because we need a place to house the people we fear. Guns (why) we need to protect ourselves from the people we fear. Capital punishment (why) we need to kill the people we fear. Do you know the U.S. has more people in Jail and prison then any other country in the world. (why) because we have too many conservatives.

I think the region you refer to is the amygdalae. It's where fear conditioning occurs, hence the results.

[pcuser]

Absolutely. The right-leaning members of this forum are validated by their peers. It doesn't make their opinions any more (or less) valid. Facts and statistics may support their argument, but likewise don't make their opinions any more (or less) valid. Visit a liberal forum, and you would see the exact same circumstances - and the same rules would apply.



I don't know if I agree with this. I don't know how much nature versus nurture defines one's politics, but I lean away from any theory of political predisposition. However, I will agree that a great deal of American politics is FUD-based. The majority of people in this country will being going about their lives in the same way - tomorrow, a year from now, and four years from now. The political make-up of Washington will have little significant bearing on their immediate condition. So how do you rouse an otherwise indifferent populace into action? Why, you tell them tales of woe, of course!

The science that's coming out of research is finding surprising results regarding nature vs. nurture. We may be uncomfortable with the idea that we have very limited control of reactions we thought were under our control, though that doesn't make the science any less valid. Besides, one result of this research will likely find ways to take better control over our lives and our actions. That will probably be a good thing (IMHO).