If you are talking about a "Ninja" run I think your advice is pretty dumb. There are patrols all over that lake, this guy is talking about legal fishing and the responses are targeted towards helping him catch fish legally.Originally Posted by sponger_2
Last edited by seal; 05-03-2012 at 11:33 AM.
Just pull out your pocket lawyer, he he he...
California Fish and Game Code 5943 (a):
(a) The owner of a dam shall accord to the public for the
purpose of fishing, the right of access to the waters impounded by
the dam during the open season for the taking of fish in the stream
or river, subject to the regulations of the commission.
The streams that they dammed up to make that lake traditionally held fish, so this code technically applies. Probably not worth arguing it with a patrol officer, but you would have a good case in court, and the case would set precedent. Get to know the statutes, guys. Some of them are in our favor, he he.
The problem with that argument is that you have to trespass on private property in order to get to the water. Nothing in the Fish and Game Code, or Title 14 allows the public to trespass on private property. And before you mention the "Village" area, it is also private property.
An example of legal access to state waters would be the Seven Oaks Dam. While the dam itself is private property, the land behind it is public (USFS), thus access through public land to reach state waters is legal. That just doesn't exist at Lake Arrowhead. So unless you plan to parachute from a plain, I'd suggest you don't trespass and fish there...unless you enjoy arguing with ALA officers or the San Bernardino Sheriff's. I'm not trying to be an A-hole here, just trying to inform you that to me...it ain't worth it!
You are on a roll today!
There was actually a lawsuit regarding the above access issues a few years back. An individual tried boating into Canyon Lake, got arrested when he refused to leave, took it to court. I think it ended up with an out of court settlement.
It does seem odd that an entire community can hold claim to a public lake. I can understand how a small HOA might build a pond in the middle of their neighborhood, but public water should be...gasp...public water with access.
Cool then I say we open her on up and destroy it like all the other "public lakes"!
I would think considering how long Lake Arowhead has been private that these issues have been washed out in court long ago, but hey it's tough for me to get access and I'd like to play more often in the water so somebody go for it and let us know how it turns out.
Sounds to me like it is a HOA type lake. Spring Valley Lake is the same I believe in Victorville and is a fairly large lake, don't think size matters (well at least I've been told that).
From the Lake Arrowhead website-
As Lake Arrowhead is a private lake owned by the homeowners of Arrowhead Woods, visitors who are not guests of property owners have very limited use of the lake*.
Last edited by seal; 05-03-2012 at 01:25 PM.
ALL natural rivers and streams are public domain and classified as waters of the state below the high water line. Just because you own the land around them, doesn't mean you have a legal right to stop angler access below the high water line. By damming up a stream and creating a lake you essentially raise the high water line. Additionally, lake arrowhead was planted with DFG fish, including grass carp back when it was fishable. Grass carp have a lifespan of up to 50 years. Which also brings the following into play:
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
"Section 25. The people shall have the right to fish upon and from
the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof, excepting
upon lands set aside for fish hatcheries, and no land owned by the
State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the
people the absolute right to fish thereupon; and no law shall ever be
passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public
lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water
containing fish that have been planted therein by the State;
provided, that the legislature may by statute, provide for the season
when and the conditions under which the different species of fish
may be taken."
We have already established that the streambeds that were inundated are public lands. And the state constitution provides that "no land owned by the State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the people the absolute right to fish thereupon."
Seems to me there are plenty of ways to handle it, he he he.
Exactly. They settled the case to keep it quiet and prevent further case law from setting precedent. Though I don't think the streams that they dammed to make that lake traditionally held fish, so that may null F&G 5943.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the monopoly of lake rights for the homeowners of Lake Arrowhead. What I'm pointing out is that nothing in the Fish and Game Code, or Title 14- Code of Regulations, or the State Constitution gives the public the right to trespass on private property. That's life. You needn't refer me to the Fish and Game Code anymore, as I fully understand how it reads.
If someone trespasses on private property at Arrowhead to reach the state waters, they may or may not be in for a rude awakening. Depends if an ALA employee contacts you and asks for verification that you live there or are a guest. If not, they'll ask you to leave. If you refuse, they'll simply call SBSO.
Put yourself in their shoes. If you owned a lakefront house, and saw someone with a float-tube and fishing rods walking across your property to get to the water what would you do? What would your response be when they said, "The Fish and Game Code says I can fish in state waters, so I'm using your property for access." I think we know the answer to that one.
PS-Good luck finding grass carp in that lake. And all the fish at Arrowhead were once stocked by the DFG -way back before it became privatized. It doesn't change things.
By the way, you answered your own scenario when you cited the California Constitution; did you notice where it says you can fish upon "public lands"? The part that states "no law shall ever be
passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public
lands within this State for the purpose of fishing". Just trying to keep you out of trouble ;)
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