That really boils down to you. It's personal preference really. The Z-Axis is the old XP which is the model I am currently using and I love it. Really you need to pull on the blank and see if it's right for you, that is the only way. Also you could fish with it if you know someone that has one but good luck finding someone with a Sage wrapped for spinning especially if it's not someone that I know. Haven't seen too many of those guysOriginally Posted by blackberg
Mini Jigging Rod
All right many things I have stated have been taken out of context. First of all noodle rods are very sensitive IMHO, which is subjective. My graphite Rainshadow RX7 3 wt is extremely sensitive. It is a true noodle rod for 2lb test line. Yes because it is 43 million modulus GRAPHITE, it is more sensitive than fiberglass.
Someone corroborated my earlier statement that a light tipped fiberglass rod such as a Kencor gives superior action to the light 1/64-1/32 minijigs, which some people still don’t believe because they have different fishing styles. Now personally I definitely feel that Kencor and other noodle rods are sensitive, which is subjective because everyone has different feel.
What is not subjective is the fact that some weaves of fiberglass are less sensitive than some lays or weaves of graphite. Not to mention the fact that there are different resins and curing processes which will affect the weight and hence sensitivity of the rod itself. So if you really want to get technical then some grades of graphite are too stiff and NOT more sensitive than some weaves of fiberglass. Think about the oscillation of the rod in relation to destructive interference of the wave and lack of density being offset by the increased impulse of the load from the force.
The variations lie in the many subtle differences that affect performance. Most rod builders do not heat pressurize or vacuum bag their epoxy covered guide stems, feet. Modern carbon fiber builders, compress the medium to squeeze out the extra epoxy from the weave. This lightens the load and reduces dampening through excess material. The strength relies on the resin hardening and reinforcing the fabric, be it fiberglass or graphite.
Now that brings up another point of what we are feeling essentially. It is not like the electrical system of the human body’s nervous system. Instead vibrations need to oscillate in a waveform at their maximum rate of frequency, resonate. Now vibrations travel differently in a relationship with their environment. So the density of the medium of the rod will affect the transmission of the wave across or through it. The oscillation of the medium itself will also affect constructive and destructive interference of the waves. In other words the end of the line as well as the shaking rod loading and unloading as a force is transmitted through the line and exerted to the rod via the guides. The feel will then be transmitted to the grip and to a small and insignificant extent the reel seat via the line connected to the reel. Everything affects each other in a system because they are all connected.
Such things as EVA foam are going to dampen the vibrations more than cork. If you really want to get sensitive then just get the lightest guides, Ti. Acid wrap or spiral wrap the guides to balance the load from the line to the guides. (Some people feel spiral wrapped guides affect casting and feel in a negative manner.) Use minimal thread and compress all of the epoxy out. FORGET the grips and reel seat. Just use a thin shim for the reel and wrap it and the handle. All of the EXTRAS just adds weight and deadens the feel. After all everything I have said has been in relation to 2LB TEST and not anything higher like 3lb test. Of course this is subjective because of all of the different densities and diameters of the different lines used nowadays. People keep just thinking about diameter and limpness. But limpness is also in relation to density. That will affect the ability to cast a light object.
The density of the line affects the swing weight. It is kind of like the playground question of which is harder to lift 200lbs of lead or 200lbs of feathers. Now the smartass quickly snaps they are the same weight so only a fool would choose the lead. Of course compressed feathers will be harder to lift than those packed loosely with plenty of loft. Now the weight lifters always knew that lead weights were harder to lift than sand filled vinyl weights. The density and air resistance affect their movement through the 14.7lbs of atmospheric pressure already exerted upon us.
Now absolute feel like anything else is just one factor among numerous variables that always need to be considered. Simple things like the dynamics of casting a light object a far distance involve more than just factoring in the reel size, line used, size & weight of the jig in relation to drag and action of the rod. We need to also catch fish and to do this we need to work the right areas of water, which from the shore means a longer rod. Not to mention crosswinds and the resistance of the line.
Now some basic things to understand about the human body are that one can enhance anyone of their senses through training and acclimation. Muscle (string filament) memory and the hippocampus help encode new skills into our long-term memory. This is why ergonomics, casting and fishing style come in to play. A good rod builder won’t just ask for your specs they will analyze your casting style not to mention the exact reel your going to use to ensure longer casts.
Now grips actually do help IMHO and are worth their weight. A long Tennessee handle is very useful when handling big fish. The ability to adjust the position of the reel on the handle allows flexibility. The long handle also provides greater dexterity when following big fish in awkward situations off hand. My friend once had to follow a big brown in Parker Lake through a hole in a sunken log. The long handle allowed better maneuvering of the 9ft rod through the log and still land the fish. The human fingernail is actually designed to help provide backing to increase sensitivity to our fingertips. There are also more nerves allowing greater feel at our fingertips. This makes the right grip size a very important relationship that foam can generally cover at the price of weight. It is like shooting a handgun. If it does not point well for your hand and style of shooting then you are better off getting one that does. Feel is important. Too small or large can really affect your relationship with your rod. Think of it like a short shifter to a sloppy loose stock shifter. The take up, play and feel are a huge advancement.
It is hard to accomplish everything and make the perfect all around anything. There are tradeoffs to consider. You could choose a nice rod builder like Sage and GLoomis. Those are some awesome rods for a lot of money. However my BPS WM 11ft rod, which is IM6 GRAPHITE $45, will out cast them ALL with comparable backbones with similar action tips. The sacrifice is the weight and sensitivity. My Batson Rainshadow also imparts great action for a $60 blank. I cannot lie and say it feels as good as a $300 blank from the other brands. Especially because it has no backbone compared to the other two. It was designed primarily to cast a light minijig and impart great action. For the purposes being served it is sufficient and a much better buy. Just to clarify GLoomis just got greedy and are not going to sell their blanks to the public. If anyone knows of a source for the new blanks and not old stock that would be a great find.
Someone mentioned that a longer rod does not affect casting distance. Well it is true that just because the rod is longer does not mean it will cast further. We must understand the relationship between the action of the rod in regards to load, line test and weight of the lure used. If you have a shorter rod with a heavy fast action and a heavy jig then you will be able to outcast a longer rod with a lighter action and a jig that is too heavy for the rod. However if the action, line and the lure weights were equal, then the longer rod WILL outcast the shorter rod. It is basic physics and trigonometry. The height gives you that distance. It will also change the angle of the jig being worked. Look at spey rods and surf rods. The longer rod helps you work more water from SHORE. In a boat or a float tube the length can become an issue.
As far as the feel issues about the action of the rod in relation to jig fishing. I generally prefer a faster action rod for jig fishing 8lb test and up. I like the solid feel and less stretch from the heavier line and rod. However for jig fishing 2lb test, and casting minijigs, there is a lot of stretch. A longer and whippier rod will take much LESS force to load it than a heavier action rod. The load at impulse will be less. Hence the BETTER sensitivity with a light tip on 2LB TEST line. The IMPULSE, contact time, is increased because more of the rod will have to be loaded to feel the micro vibrations that travel along it. The heavier action rod will need more force to exert any load on the rod, move it. It is here where the length of the rod clearly aids in sensitivity, casting and action imparted to a minijig. Look at all of the Steelhead and Salmon rods. It is not just about distance.
Good example would be the Daiwa Heartland. OK rod with plenty of backbone, but HORRIBLE tip. It still is too fast for minijigs. It cannot cast as far as a whippy noodle rod. The action is ok, but nothing to suggest for the price. In the end if money is no object have GLoomis make you a nice spinning rod with a 4-5wt GLX blank or an Orvis Helios. The Helios doesn’t have the power of the GLoomis or the Sage, but it has a load to swing weight advantage and is lighter than either two. For the purposes of a backcountry spinning 2lb minijig rod it is a great option.
Waterbound,
Wow. Your post reminds me a bit of a gentleman named Emory Harris. I'm going to have to reread your post when I have more time. Lots of good stuff to digest. The only thing I may take issue is your statement that longer will cast further. I think it's actually a parabolic relationship. There's a point of diminishing return as rods get longer, and then finally a point of negative return as it gets too long. The question is where. I think the lighter the jig, the shorter the point of crossover from gain to loss of distance. Your illustration of spey and surf rods may not apply directly here due to the different lure weight.
Your post intrigues me. Would love to meet up with you sometime if you are close by.
UL
Waterbound your gift of wording is absolutely awesome! While on some of what you have said I agree a lot of the other stuff I have to agree to disagree. Longer rods with a 1/32nds ounce jig don't cast farther. I understand simple physics (though it's been a long time since I was in school and I could be completely wrong) and such and that is also why I disagree. Much testing has been done to clarify an optimal range in length for casting a 1/32nds ounce jig. In the findings of the individual I know that has done the testing 7.5' is the optimal range. Once you get above that you don't gain much if anything at all. Now if you want to say that the rod is longer and reaches out over the water another 3.5' (assuming your rod is 11' like you stated) then your jig is obviously going to land about 3.5 farther because of the rod length and if you are exerting more force for one then another it is also going to travel farther but if you casted with the same amount of force and were to measure from tip to landing you would gain very little if anything at all with the longer rod.
Also from personal experience fishing with whippy rods such as Kencor (I have owned 3) I have to completely disagree that they (whippy loose rods) are anywhere even close to being sensitive. The looser the action of a rod is the less sensitivity it has. Faster action rods are for the most part always going to be more sensitive (without getting too technical about it) then slower action rods period. You absolutely sacrifice action on your jig for sensitivity no doubt about it but you can feel almost everything with a fast action rod where you miss a lot of bites with a rod like a Kencor. Guys have stopped fishing with those rods just because they aren't sensitive and they are missing bites.
I was also looking around at weights of blanks for the Helios and the Sage Z-Axis and the Z-Axis beats the Helios everytime if you are just comparing blank weights of equal height and line weight rating. Here is a comparison:
Helios 4wt. 4 piece 8'6" weighs in at 2 1/8th ounces
Sage Z-Axis 4wt. 4 piece 8'6" weighs in at 1 3/16ths ounces almost an ounce difference and the Z-Axis aren't even the lightest blanks made by Sage. The TXL series is supremely light with a 7' 4wt 3 piece weighing in at a measly 5/8ths of an ounce! They also have the same rod in 7'10" weighing in at only 1 ounce. Talk about light!!!
Like I said I can agree to disagree and to each his own.
AngryAgent, are you quoting the weight per specs by the manufacturer or actually weighing it yourself? I find manufacturers ratings to be often grossly inaccurate which is why I asked. The 7' 10" is the completed rod or just the blank?
UL
Respectfully, I think the flyfishing community would disagree with you about your theory that longer rods does not equate to further casting distance. I have a 8 ft 3wt (brand unk? it's very old) and 9.5 3wt....I can assure you that with the same line (I think I have floating - neutral on both) and tippet, I can cast a 22 dry pattern much further on my 9.5 3wt.
It's all about how the rod loads....and while yes, while I agree hypothetically that a ridiculous 15 ft 3wt flyrod might not cast further than a 9.5 fter with a light lure, I would think a similarly built minijig 7.5fter and 9fter would have different casting abilities, all things being the same.
While I'm no minijig master at all, it's been my personal experience that for SoCal in particular, and fishing the local water holes they call "lakes" out here, distance is NOT a factor. It's about the action, hence the cult of Kencor enthusiasts. It's tough to give the smooth hopping action on a fast action all graphite rod, IMO.
In any event, good discussion from all here....again, just my opinion. LOL.
2 cents....
It is just the blank weight for each individual blank..
Sansou, sounds logical but I would say that a jigging rod works differently from a fly rod putting out fly line. And 1/32 or 1/64 jigs also is a different dynamics from fly line. There are other factors too goes into the equation such as line drag.
UL
I didn't want to try and explain it any further. I have been witness to the testing myself and have seen the results. You can lead a horse to water....
I think many good points were made by everyone. A lot of things were clearly explained in a comprehensive manner.
Length in regards to casting distance is not a constant progression. The longer the rod the more force will be needed to move the extra weight. There is a point where the length will adversely affect casting distance. Otherwise the 20ft rods would be more common with modern materials, but they are not.
Another good point was brought up about the load of a rod. A rod will only transfer as much energy as it was designed to load and rebound. Extra force will not make a difference in the amount of force transferred.
In regards to blank weights. I have found different data. The Orvis Helios 8’6” 4wt is 1 1/8oz. The Sage Z-Axis 8’6” 4wt is 1 3/16oz. Maybe I have wrong data on the blanks. It just appears to me that Orvis is lighter in that specific rod class.
http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Cata...4Pa38Ta38Qah90
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote