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Thread: The Invasion of the 800-pound pinnipeds

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    On a Big Dirt Hill
    Posts
    877

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    I think everything is illegal.
    Except paying tax's

  2. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one_leg View Post
    I would think that a set of those things that pop your tires when you drive into the exit in a parking lot woulod keep them at bay. That can't be illegal, can it?
    People down in Newport were putting all kinds of things on the boat steps and sail boats to keep the sea lions off - barbed wire, and something else that was really sharp. They got in a heep of trouble. You also get in a heep of trouble if you allow the sea lions to get on your boat.

    This is one of the critters that eye balled me when I glided by down in Newport....three or four others were trailing behind me in the water.

    For a while they used high powered water to get them off of the boats...

    The sea lion situation in Newport is getting pretty bad. especially in August and September.
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lakewood / Long Beach, CA (originally from NJ)
    Posts
    213

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    Sky, Jikser , et all

    Quote Originally Posted by sky View Post
    No I asked. Neither are cattle prodders. You can't even hit it with your paddle. (legally :rolleyes:)
    Part 1: Mr Cardoro ?
    I don't know Mr Joe Cardoro and am not really sure what organization he actually represents. However since his title of "Coordinator of the California Marine Mammal Stranding Network" seems like his agenda or focus would be to protect the sea lions and not your safety.

    I am not trying to be disrespectful towards him just clearly state the facts as I see them.
    of course maybe Im just wrong

    Part 2: The law
    Sea Lions as part of the original post are protected by FEDERAL LAW.
    We should examine that. NOAA has a site directly dedicated to California Sea Lions.
    What does it say
    Heres is the Q & A from NOAA
    http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/Marine-Mamma...-Pinnipeds.cfm

    Within it you can find a pdf called "potential deterrance methods"

    Found at
    http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/Marine-Mamma...-Pinnipeds.pdf

    Clearly states for property owners to include vessels at anchor
    cattle prods - OK
    sling shots - OK ( even gives a picture)
    However if a sea lion was climbing aboard a 800lb sea lion was attempting to board a kayak rated for only 350lbs I would think that would be considered protection of property as opposed to "just fishing"

    My 2 cents and how I see it



  4. #14

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    Mike,

    thanks for the info..that means i get to keep my wrist-rocket in the yak after all, given only to use when necessary and I can't freeze paintballs no mo.. :)

    Wil

  5. #15

    Default

    Wow, that's really interesting. I specifically asked about a cattle prod and a sling shot. I was told that a pellet from a sling shot could break the skin, and possibly damage an eye.

    (See Photo JPEG I copied from a PDF on the NOOA site. You still can be held liable, "regardless of the method you may be subject to prosecution should a marine mammal be seriously injured or killed. To reduce the risk of causing "serious injury" to an animal, deterrence methods should be chosen that avoid penetration or tearing of skin, or rupture of an eye.")

    A pellet used in a sling shot can go right through an aluminum can. You can't tear the skin.... They are contradicting themselves.

    When I called a cattle prod manufacturer he told me a cattle prod isn't water proof, and advised not using it while on the water. And between my fishing pole, and paddle, I didn't have an extra set of hands to use my sling shot....

    The reality is, the chances are when you are going to encounter a problematic sea lion, you are going to be caught off guard 90% of the time. You're not going to have time to load a sling shot. The second problem is, you can't shoot at a sea lion that is away from you with a sling shot. In order for it to be considered protecting yourself it has to be grabbing hold of you, or trying to climb onto your kayak, and as I said earlier, if one of the sea lions I have seen in Long Beach, Huntington Harbor, and Newport Harbor tries to climb on board your kayak, you'll probably sink.

    Another loop hole is on the NOOA site, it fails to mention anything about protecting yourself - only your property, ad fishing gear, and catch in which you have to be actively fishing to use.

    There's lots of loop holes...

    "The presence of Endangered Species Act-listed species in some areas may advise against the use of certain methods. Please consult with local authorities to determine if such prohibitions exist in your area, or if ESA-listed species may be encountered."

    Mr Joe Cardoro is located in Long Beach and he was the person with whom I was directed to speak to in regards to what methods I could use to deter a sea lion.

    Q. May I deter a Pacific harbor seal or California seal lion that is hauled out on a beach or breakwater, or is swimming in an area where I want to fish?
    A. The MMPA does not allow private citizens to deter marine mammals from undeveloped property (e.g., a beach) or public property (e.g., a breakwater). Private citizens may deter only Pacific harbor seals and California seal lions that are exhibiting problem behavior resulting in, or that could result in, damage to private property, fishing gear or catch.

    Something is really wrong here...Doesn't say anything about it that critter wants to do damage to me - which I feel my life is much more valuable than my fishing gear, or catch...etc.

    Q. What deterrence methods for Pacific harbor seals and California seal lions are available to the public?

    A. NOAA Fisheries Service is developing formal guidelines and regulations for safely and legally deterring marine mammals. That guidance is not yet available, so in the interim, the agency is providing this advice for deterring Pacific harbor seals and California seal lions. See potential deterrence methods (PDF 48KB).

    Then in closing it puts a little footnote....see attachment. They got you by the ying yang no matter how you want to look at it.
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  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    14,400

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky View Post

    Then in closing it puts a little footnote....see attachment. They got you by the ying yang no matter how you want to look at it.
    That is one jury I'd actually like to serve on.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Phelan CA
    Posts
    15

    Default It works and is easy...

    Had the same prob at Catalina when we'd go to the Isthumus for the weekend. The "locals" would dock themselves on our dingy when we were moored, and if threatened by something (perhaps a shark, etc) while out and about, they'd try and jump in.

    ALWAYS keep at least 2 of those canned-airhorns with ya. As soon as ya see them (or, hopefully not to late as they board your "island"), BLAST THEM with it.

    I haven't had this experience with a Yak yet, but with the ding, we'd get up in the morning and sometimes find a lil' sea lion lumbering/sunning/snoozing. I'd get down on the back steps of the sailboat and pull it toward the boat while hallering and be ignored. That was chance #1. After that, here comes the canned horn.

    Ka-Ching!

    However, I'd hate to think of having an 800 lb# critter suddenly trying to "beach" out of sheer panic, on my 9' Hobie. (Of course, by the time you realize what's going on...:shock:)

    I thought about that which is why I bought a couple of the canned horns and will always keep one tethered/handy. The Ocean Gods would not want me to end up hysterical.

    No.

    Not good. (I'd have to reverse the earth's rotation as a result, and that'll just mess things up for everyone).

    It's the Italian Woman in me - what can I say? :rofl:


    Ang

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lakewood / Long Beach, CA (originally from NJ)
    Posts
    213

    Default

    I think the following would be a good rule of thumb

    1. Use common sense
    2. Do not intentionally provoke
    3. Use the least harmful methods available to deter

    deter - to discourage or restrain from acting or proceeding

    4. If personally attacked, the laws really aren't gonna matter at that point

    Really if this thing is gnawing on your leg or foot is anyone gonna give a rat's @$$ about the approved deterance methods ?

    If your being attacked then the deterence did not work and thus should be declared open season on the attacking sea lion

  9. #19

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    Newport Beach city received a report that a rogue sea lion tipped over a mother and her child in their kayak.

    Some boat owners have also strung barricades made of wire and milk carton around their crafts, while others place upside-down lawn chairs on their swim steps, said Harbor Patrol Lt. Erin Giudice. The Harbor Patrol sprays the sea lions with fire hoses but they reboard the boats within minutes, she said.

  10. #20

    Default Sea Lion issues

    I've been following this thread with a great deal of interest. This Sunday I fished out of 15th street on my kayak and two other guys set off in float tubes. In the early morning I saw no sign of SL but in the afternoon these monsters were everywhere in that derelict boat mooring opposite the peninsula. They were mostly on old barges or mastless cats and trimarans and one boat was practically sunk by four of them.

    My biggest concern is with guys on float tubes. Has anyone had a run in with one of these things on a float tube??? Sounds to me that Fish and Game should really move on this issue as there is a very real and present danger that one of many recreational kayakers or float tubers will one day be attacked. The mother and child incident might just be the very beginning of a problem about to occur. I noticed that the SL are not intimidated in the slightest by our presence.............an come right up to the yak. I only noticed them in that boat mooring area and nowhere else in the bay....wonder why??

    Overall, a scary situation.
    Yellowfin.....

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