Senate passes GOP tax reform bill

[Lady Quagga]

GOP TAX BILL PASSES SENATE

An overhaul of the tax system succeeds with 51 votes. It was still being written hours earlier -- and needs to be reconciled with the House version.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politics/tax-reform-vote-latest/index.html

Aaaaaand the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round......

[Natural Lefty]

And the only reason the Republicans are doing this tax bill, apparently, is to further enrich their wealthy benefactors so that they will get more campaign donations from them. Hopefully, this will all backfire on the Republicans. According to FiveThirtyEight, this is the only tax bill in history which has a net disapproval rating. In fact, it is more unpopular than previous tax increases were. People are starting to see through their agenda.

Their only justification for it, government budget-wise, is trickle down economics, which depends on the Laffer Curve, developed by Arthur Laffer. (What a Laffer.) This curve says that lowering taxes can stimulate the economy so much that it increases government revenue. However, not only do we know that money transfers to the wealthy increase wealth and power disparities, and fail to trickle down to the general public, but also, in actual studies, the optimum effective tax rate under the Laffer Curve is around 70%, maybe even a little higher. The effective tax rate in the United States, prior to this bill which lowers it still further, was 29.8%, including all taxes (local, state, federal and fees), which obviously is FAR lower already that the Laffer Curve evidence would advocate. But Republicans have never seen a tax that they like, and continue to play tax rate limbo, trying to see how low they can go before they whole system collapses. I suspect we are about to find out, as even Goldman Sachs is warning that the low tax rates in the U.S. are threatening to cause national debt levels to reach unsustainable levels.

Further, the Congressional Budget office did an analysis in 2006, I think it was, which found that a 10% decrease in the tax rate would result in transfers of wealth to the rich, ultimately to be paid for by other Americans. Plus, to top it off, the best job growth rates are found when the top tier tax rates are between 85% -90%. In short, the entire thing is a rich person's scam on the rest of us.

[etucker1959]

And the only reason the Republicans are doing this tax bill, apparently, is to further enrich their wealthy benefactors so that they will get more campaign donations from them. Hopefully, this will all backfire on the Republicans. According to FiveThirtyEight, this is the only tax bill in history which has a net disapproval rating. In fact, it is more unpopular than previous tax increases were. People are starting to see through their agenda.

Their only justification for it, government budget-wise, is trickle down economics, which depends on the Laffer Curve, developed by Arthur Laffer. (What a Laffer.) This curve says that lowering taxes can stimulate the economy so much that it increases government revenue. However, not only do we know that money transfers to the wealthy increase wealth and power disparities, and fail to trickle down to the general public, but also, in actual studies, the optimum effective tax rate under the Laffer Curve is around 70%, maybe even a little higher. The effective tax rate in the United States, prior to this bill which lowers it still further, was 29.8%, including all taxes (local, state, federal and fees), which obviously is FAR lower already that the Laffer Curve evidence would advocate. But Republicans have never seen a tax that they like, and continue to play tax rate limbo, trying to see how low they can go before they whole system collapses. I suspect we are about to find out, as even Goldman Sachs is warning that the low tax rates in the U.S. are threatening to cause national debt levels to reach unsustainable levels.

Further, the Congressional Budget office did an analysis in 2006, I think it was, which found that a 10% decrease in the tax rate would result in transfers of wealth to the rich, ultimately to be paid for by other Americans. Plus, to top it off, the best job growth rates are found when the top tier tax rates are between 85% -90%. In short, the entire thing is a rich person's scam on the rest of us.

The big question is will the voters in 2018 see this and throw the bums out. (as in flipping the House of Representatives)

[Natural Lefty]

Yes indeed it is, Eric. If the results of recent polls and elections that have been held this year are any indication. it appears that conditions are very favorable for Democrats now as people wise up and revolt against these Republicans who serve the super rich rather than the public.

Republicans have already been taking a shellacking in November's elections that were held in a few states, as well as special elections.

[DarkShadow]

Where are all the fiscal conservatives at, throw your hands in the sky!!

https://m.popkey.co/605144/mpm0X.gif

Oh wait, they're too busy ignoring the bit about the $1,000,000,000,000.00+ this will add to the national debt that they, and their government reps, pretend to be concerned about.

They're probably on Facebook still clicking on Russian bought ads and using the #LockHerUp hashtag.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/wgntapl2aygcnf3pqtwx.jpg

[CHUCKY]

GOP TAX BILL PASSES SENATE

An overhaul of the tax system succeeds with 51 votes. It was still being written hours earlier -- and needs to be reconciled with the House version.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politics/tax-reform-vote-latest/index.html

Aaaaaand the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round......

Oh noooo!! Go to your safe space now. You will be ok.

[DarkShadow]

Oh noooo!! Go to your safe space now. You will be ok.

Deflection much?

Anything to add Chucky in regards to the topic at hand? Or anything in general?

Or are you waiting for your pundits to release their talking points to your fellow parrots before squawking?

[etucker1959]

Oh noooo!! Go to your safe space now. You will be ok.

We will be ok??? Anyone who is a Home owner should say, "you did what to the value of my home!!!" Because of the $500,000 limit of the mortgage interest deduction in the tax plan. The effect will be an 5% decrease of the value of peoples homes Nation wide as predicted by many experts. Places like California might see a loss of as much as an 10% decrease in the value of your home.

I just went by one of the streets I was going to target for my Real Estate Marketing. I couldn't believe it, 3 houses out of 22 had for sale coming soon signs in front of the house. Some people are already panicking and wanting to sell quick before the prices start to drop!!!

[Natural Lefty]

Dark Shadow, you actually were three zeroes short in the amount of additional national debt caused by this bill. It's 1,000,000,000,000 which is a trillion dollars. That is a one and 12 zeroes. You only put nine zeroes after the one, which is a billion dollars. Mind boggling, isn't it?

[Brent]

Oh noooo!! Go to your safe space now. You will be ok.

Chucky, Chucky, Chucky
You're going to have to do waaaaaaaay better than that.

[DarkShadow]

Chucky, Chucky, Chucky
You're going to have to do waaaaaaaay better than that.

Yeah, I'm also waiting for Chucky to actually respond to the actual tax bill that got passed.

Something tells me he's looking at the new tax bill much how people look at PowerBait colors at Walmart right before they decide to buy a specific color.

https://m.popkey.co/6b8613/wrxg_f-maxage-0.gif

[steelhead]

You are Dreaming, prices are not going to drop, homes are selling for higher than listing price due to low inventory and rabid buyers



We will be ok??? Anyone who is a Home owner should say, "you did what to the value of my home!!!" Because of the $500,000 limit of the mortgage interest deduction in the tax plan. The effect will be an 5% decrease of the value of peoples homes Nation wide as predicted by many experts. Places like California might see a loss of as much as an 10% decrease in the value of your home.

I just went by one of the streets I was going to target for my Real Estate Marketing. I couldn't believe it, 3 houses out of 22 had for sale coming soon signs in front of the house. Some people are already panicking and wanting to sell quick before the prices start to drop!!!

[steelhead]

Projected to over 10 years, how much did we add to the deficit over the last 8 years?



Dark Shadow, you actually were three zeroes short in the amount of additional national debt caused by this bill. It's 1,000,000,000,000 which is a trillion dollars. That is a one and 12 zeroes. You only put nine zeroes after the one, which is a billion dollars. Mind boggling, isn't it?

[Natural Lefty]

It's a lot, a mind boggling amount, but the one trillion dollars from the current bill is in addition to the usual budget deficits which continue unabated. It is an extra 1 trillion dollars, rather than working on reducing the national debt.

[etucker1959]

You are Dreaming, prices are not going to drop, homes are selling for higher than listing price due to low inventory and rabid buyers

Time will tell!! But let's use a little logic now. First time buyers already can't afford an SFR with the total amount of interest being deductible. (what happens when it caps out at $500,000) It will also put an de incentive to upgrading your resident. (you know when you sell your $500,000 house and buy an $800,000 house) You won't be able to deduct $300,000 of the mortgage interest on your new loan. So what happens to those $750,000 or more homes??? They go down in value and pushes everything else down with it. So who is buying these houses now??? Simple answer, "Investor's." But with a likely drop in housing prices. Real Estate in California won't look like such a good investment anymore. Where will these investors now put their money???? Let's see, what investment looks even more attractive now with lower corporate tax's and de regulation. Even you Steelhead should now the answer to this!!!! THE STOCK MARKET!!!! DUH!!!!!! Watch money move away from Real Estate and into the Stock Market!!! Putting those 2 things together and not being able to deduct SALT Tax's. You will see a drop in housing prices predicted by the experts. Thinking of selling before the prices get soft???? Give me a shout!!! lol

[Brent]

Time will tell!! But let's use a little logic now. First time buyers already can't afford an SFR with the total amount of interest being deductible. (what happens when it caps out at $500,000) It will also put an de incentive to upgrading your resident. (you know when you sell your $500,000 house and buy an $800,000 house) You won't be able to deduct $300,000 of the mortgage interest on your new loan. So what happens to those $750,000 or more homes??? They go down in value and pushes everything else down with it. So who is buying these houses now??? Simple answer, "Investor's." But with a likely drop in housing prices. Real Estate in California won't look like such a good investment anymore. Where will these investors now put their money???? Let's see, what investment looks even more attractive now with lower corporate tax's and de regulation. Even you Steelhead should now the answer to this!!!! THE STOCK MARKET!!!! DUH!!!!!! Watch money move away from Real Estate and into the Stock Market!!! Putting those 2 things together and not being able to deduct SALT Tax's. You will see a drop in housing prices predicted by the experts. Thinking of selling before the prices get soft???? Give me a shout!!! lol

How many people outside of their work supplied 401K that make under $75K annually actually own stocks? Any stock market gains won't help the lower income people at all. It has been proven that the money never ever ever 'trickles down'. They did not get to be billionaires by giving other people their money. All it's doing is creating an even bigger gap in the wealth distribution, but I guess some people are fine with the money going to billionaires and not to people that need help. I think they believe these billionaires actually give a damn about them. SMDH

[Natural Lefty]

We have stocks because I inherited some from my parents. We sold the oil stocks and stuff I didn't like such as McDonalds, etc. and bought a bunch of "green" mutual funds (solar energy, wind farms, organic food, etc.). Well, the other day we needed to put some money into our main bank account, so we went to the place with the stocks to withdraw some cash. Meanwhile, the financial advisor wanted to talk to us. He said that my stocks were doing even better than the market as a whole, for one thing, so we must be doing something right, and that's even with this anti-environment administration. Then he suggested selling a bit of the mutual fund and buying some of one particular stock, and I said okay. He said specifically, that the tax scam tax plan will NOT help the economy, but stock investors (i.e. rich people) are pleased with the corporate tax cut and will boost the stock market for a little while, after which even the lower corporate tax rates won't further help the stock market. He said it is a temporary boost. So basically, the financial advisor confirmed what you said, Eric and Brent.

What you said about why house prices are likely to fall makes sense too, Eric. ;)