Voting

[pcuser]

So, who are you voting for in November?

[Theos]

The Most qualified.

[Ifishtoolittle]

The Most qualified.

Lol.

But I want that wall! Everybody knows our problems lie in those illegals taking all those farm worker jobs in the valley.

[TroutOnly]

.they are a problem , it doesnt touch everybody......ive been in the flooring install buisness for 41 yrs , im licensed bonded and insured and i have to compete against illegal people who work for half the money..........really.......ive seen it all across the construction industry....wages driven down and backwards and ppeoples standard of living destroyed.....if i didnt have my govt work where you have to pass extensive background checks to work at drone bases,airforce bases,govt sites , army and marine bases and other govt buildings.......i'll take a successfull buisness man over a successfull crimminal any day ,even if i dont agree with everything he says.......

[Theos]

Lol.

But I want that wall! Everybody knows our problems lie in those illegals taking all those farm worker jobs in the valley.

That's a popular myth but everyone knows the infection is systemic, hell I wish they were confined to the valley...

[Theos]

.they are a problem , it doesnt touch everybody......ive been in the flooring install buisness for 41 yrs , im licensed bonded and insured and i have to compete against illegal people who work for half the money..........really.......ive seen it all across the construction industry....wages driven down and backwards and ppeoples standard of living destroyed.....if i didnt have my govt work where you have to pass extensive background checks to work at drone bases,airforce bases,govt sites , army and marine bases and other govt buildings.......i'll take a successfull buisness man over a successfull crimminal any day ,even if i dont agree with everything he says.......

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Ifishtoolittle]

That's a popular myth but everyone knows the infection is systemic, hell I wish they were confined to the valley...

Yes. What peeves me the most is that people are torn between voting out of fear instead of candidates that they truly believe in.

[Theos]

Yes. What peeves me the most is that people are torn between voting out of fear instead of candidates that they truly believe in.

Noting is scarier than a bold face liar that is above the law.

[Brent]

Noting is scarier than a bold face liar that is above the law.
Except a man with the mentality of a 5 year old silver spoon fed brat that incites fear and violence everywhere he goes and with everything he says.
Hillary sucks, but I don't think we'd survive 4 years of Trump. Everyone keeps saying he's a "successful" businessman. Apparently their perception of successful is waaaay different than mine.
Multiple bankruptcies, leaving millions owed to contractors and a fraud trial coming for his "University" doesn't sound any better than Hillary to me.
At least she won't try to nuke Europe like he would over a tweet insulting his precious first lady.
The hypocrisy on both sides this election cycle is terrifying. I can't even laugh anymore because it's literally scary as hell. The outcome either way could be devastating.

[TroutOnly]

.........america first..............

[DockRat]

I'm voting Trump. Even if you hate Republicans or Trump, try thinking about the future for the USA.
#1 Any chance at fixing the economy and debt ballon will not happen with Hillary. Trump says he will deregulate and make it easier for small business.
#2 Supreme court judges. If you like guns or fishing then having a bunch of Libs will not be good for sportsmen.
#3 Refugees. Hillary will bring many in. Look at Germany or France and see how it worked out.

Hillary is so dirty. That Clinton foundation is a scam. She has no record to run on.
Brent, with over 500 businesses any businessman will have some failures.
Drop a Nuke ? Cmon Brent.
Sure he is a loud mouth and said some stupid stuff, but I'd still roll the dice with him.

[DockRat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqbDBRWb63s

[DockRat]

No press conference in 10 months ? Can she handle the debate with Trump ?
It will be very interesting, can't wait.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azUpfzDNxpw

[DockRat]

So, who are you voting for in November?

So, PCUSER. Who are you voting for ?

[DockRat]

The Most qualified.

People like to avoid a direct question. Why is that ?


Theos, Who are you voting for ?

[DEVOREFLYER]

It is stunning but not surprising how little those that are left leaning know about business or finance. Trump filed for corporate bankruptcy four times out of being involved in over 100s of businesses. And each of those bankruptcies was filed under Chapter 11 Bankruptcy law a reorganization of debt to the creditors. And not under Chapter 13 Bankruptcy where you fold your tent and walk away leaving the creditors holding the bag. Three of the four were for gambling operations during the 1990’s when every casino took big losses due to the economy and Indian gaming expanding. Las Vegas and Atlantic City were the only place to gamble legally until Indian gaming emerged. Everyone took a hit, and many filed Chapter 13 Trump did not. In fact Trump even sold his yacht and Trump airlines to help satisfy the debt on one bankruptcy.
And for those that think the pResident has done a sterling job and Hillary is the answer I suggest you look at these nine charts from the Federal Reserve. Somebody needs to right the ship and Hillary isn’t the one.

48992

[TroutOnly]

.............bengazi...........dead ex-seals .........thank you hillary..........

[DEVOREFLYER]

Reason enough pcuser.............works for me.....

48993

[DockRat]

Another fire in Devore, 10 acres and growing. Lookout DevoreFlyer .

[DEVOREFLYER]

We are on watch and 20 acres 0% containment.......night flying aircraft have been requested per FD.

[John Harper]

It is stunning but not surprising how little those that are left leaning know about business or finance. Trump filed for corporate bankruptcy four times out of being involved in over 100s of businesses. And each of those bankruptcies was filed under Chapter 11 Bankruptcy law a reorganization of debt to the creditors. And not under Chapter 13 Bankruptcy where you fold your tent and walk away leaving the creditors holding the bag. Three of the four were for gambling operations during the 1990’s when every casino took big losses due to the economy and Indian gaming expanding. Las Vegas and Atlantic City were the only place to gamble legally until Indian gaming emerged. Everyone took a hit, and many filed Chapter 13 Trump did not. In fact Trump even sold his yacht and Trump airlines to help satisfy the debt on one bankruptcy.
And for those that think the pResident has done a sterling job and Hillary is the answer I suggest you look at these nine charts from the Federal Reserve. Somebody needs to right the ship and Hillary isn’t the one.

48992

I'll give it to you, Dev, I really can't come up with a "magic bullet" to solve any of these 9 issues in four, or even eight, years. Please pick any one of these charts and give me your solution to the problem, and also think about the potential consequences, intended or unintended. I'd really like to hear your thoughts, as I do respect your opinions. I may lean left with little business or finance knowledge (MBA Finance, USC), but my mind is always open to well thought out ideas and policies. I'm NOT here to defend the status quo, I totally agree things need to change direction in a lot of areas. Just want to hear your well reasoned ideas to solve any one of these issues.

Or, let's take each issue one at a time. I'd love to hear your ideas on a practical and implementable solution, or even a realistic path to solution, in some cases, is fine with me. I know you are an intelligent, thinking man. I don't need Fox News talking points or cut/paste bullshit. I want your own realistic proposals and how to implement them.

I think student loan debt is a building storm that will hurt our future economy, affecting home ownership, new small business entrepreneurs, and middle class net wealth accumulation, exacerbating the problem of global wealth concentration at the very top. Want to start there? You go first. Let's try to solve it! That issue alone influences at least another two of your charts, maybe four of nine in reality. Charts don't solve problems, ideas do.

I really hope your property is okay. Good luck. I know you're well prepared.

John

P.S. to pcuser: As far as voting, all I really want for Xmas is for my beloved POS Congressman, Darrel Issa, to finally be defeated. He's running ads lately (first time ever) so he must be running scared. What a jerk. Look up his criminal arrest record compared to Hillary. Brandishing a weapon at an employee? Seriously? So don't poo-poo me with this "Hillary should be arrested" bullshit, bring the charges or STFU. Most people never have been, or likely will ever be arrested, including me. What's Issa's excuse? Arrested twice? What?

As far as Presidential voting. Hiring a novice, seemingly erratic longshoreman to captain our Nuclear Aircraft Carrier of State (NACS) is a big risk IMO. At least Hillary has extensive knowledge and understanding of how the NACS reasonably operates, and has served several years, in many areas of command, aboard that carrier. There's only two choices for captain now, who would you hire? Oh Captain, My Captain!

I'm going with the person who has the most "sea time" and deployment experience. We need a steady hand at the helm.

Would you loan your boat to Donald Trump? Didn't think so.

[pcuser]

Reason enough pcuser.............works for me.....

48993

Ignorance has always lead you before. Why not now???

[DEVOREFLYER]

Ignorance has always lead you before. Why not now???

Go back to hitting your bong.....

[DEVOREFLYER]

Here is a start John.

College isn’t for everyone and many that have debt had no business going to college. Some only went to the college they chose because family or friends went there. Many took majors that had few job opportunities. Most did not graduate in four years driving up their debt or were not in the top of their class. It’s tough to pay off debt any debt when you can’t find a good paying job or any job for that matter. A robust economy would do wonders for those with a marketable degree, the others not so much. Life really is about the choices you make, you don’t reward people for making bad choices.

My grandson graduated from the University of Arkansas last year with no debt. He lived at home and commuted to school daily. He finished in four and half years due to changing his major and just started grad school to get a Masters in Geophysical Technology. As I said he lived at home and still does, he also worked as a parking valet at the Indian Casino and was on the dean’s list every semester and being of Native American heritage received some scholarship money and graduated with a 3.8 GPA.

Community College, State College and vocational/tech schools are great choices at much less cost. If you have hired a plumber, electrician or mechanic you should know that these jobs pay well. Not everyone needs a college degree to get a good paying job.

I do not believe in outright forgiving student debt, everyone needs to have some “skin in the game”. Working off some debt by performing pro bono work is something I could get behind or adjusting the interest rate ot trems of the debt. Examples could be a Med School grad putting time in at a free clinic, a law grad doing free legal aid, etc. I think you get the idea and none of this became a problem until the economy went to Hades in a hand basket, refer back to the charts. Any debt is never a problem if you can make the payments. Try asking the lender for your home or car for forgiveness and let me know how that worked out for ya. Or better yet an ex wife for missed child support or alimony.

[John Harper]

Here is a start John.

College isn’t for everyone and many that have debt had no business going to college.

Community College, State College and vocational/tech schools are great choices at much less cost. If you have hired a plumber, electrician or mechanic you should know that these jobs pay well. Not everyone needs a college degree to get a good paying job.

I do not believe in outright forgiving student debt, everyone needs to have some “skin in the game”. Working off some debt by performing pro bono work is something I could get behind or adjusting the interest rate or terms of the debt. Examples could be a Med School grad putting time in at a free clinic, a law grad doing free legal aid, etc. I think you get the idea and none of this became a problem until the economy went to Hades in a hand basket, refer back to the charts. Any debt is never a problem if you can make the payments.

I agree with all of these statements. I think student loan interest rates should be set as low as possible, like long term government debt. It's supposed to be an investment in the future in order to foster greater returns. Like new business ventures, housing demand, cars, boats, Christmas gifts, prosperity. The American Dream. Consumerism.
Of course, this lofty goal needs full accountability.

I guess the Great Recession was actually more dramatic than we realized locally, being such a larger economy than the 1930's. More reason to invest in infrastructure, creating middle class skilled working jobs. Renewable energy with permanent jobs for maintenance and upgrades, etc. Too bad we continue to spend so much on the smoldering remains of our Middle East debacle, when we could easily spend that money to renew our infrastructure and give a real middle class level assistance. Our economy runs on consumers more than investors on a local and even national scale in some markets.

Borrowing to invest in infrastructure at virtually zero interest rate is a no brainer. Only Congress can make this happen. Don't blame Obama because 535 dickheads can't get their act together and compromise like adults. The Republicans are in charge of both houses. A huge money multiplier and boost to the domestic economy, from tire shops to strip bars. Do you think our entire national debt is not already financed at the same (virtually) zero rates? What's the debt service on a zero interest loan? I remember close to 20% market interest rates under the Carter/Reagan stagflation/oil crisis years. Stocks now back at record highs, home values recovered, interest rates low, no death count of soldiers, Detroit producing awesome cars. What's so terrible? I keep hearing such doom and gloom from some folks. Prove it. I can't believe we're on the eve of destruction. Are we not still the most wealthy and powerful nation ever to exist?

We spend $1 million a shot destroying stuff (creating potholes) in other countries, but won't spend $1 million to repair potholes in our own local roads (also supporting the local food truck that serves the work crew, and their families). Go figure. I think I read the Iraq disaster could have just been an air drop of $100,000 cash to each an every Iraqi citizen. Imagine if we gave even $10,000 to each of our own our citizens, along with prudent financial advice on how to use it best. Talk about a rocket launch of our economy. How many entrepreneurs could have been launched? Families saved? Wealth created? For what? Dead towelheads. Even if some of our citizens blew their money, so what? How much wealth (or happiness) has a bomb ever created?

John

[Brent]

I'm voting Trump. Even if you hate Republicans or Trump, try thinking about the future for the USA.
#1 Any chance at fixing the economy and debt ballon will not happen with Hillary. Trump says he will deregulate and make it easier for small business.
#2 Supreme court judges. If you like guns or fishing then having a bunch of Libs will not be good for sportsmen.
#3 Refugees. Hillary will bring many in. Look at Germany or France and see how it worked out.

Hillary is so dirty. That Clinton foundation is a scam. She has no record to run on.
Brent, with over 500 businesses any businessman will have some failures.
Drop a Nuke ? Cmon Brent.
Sure he is a loud mouth and said some stupid stuff, but I'd still roll the dice with him.

DR
The economy. Trump has ZERO track record and you can't just build stuff and not pay for it and file bankruptcy when POTUS. I'll take four more years of still being employed vs. the risk of a WW3 because a spoiled brat felt insulted in a tweet. He has no self control at all and knows nothing. Everything he says is a lie or he changes his mind. He's said absolutely nothing about how he's going to "Make America Great Again". Ask any black person when exactly was America great for them. We aren't even close solving those issues. We elected a black president and the first thing the republicans did was say that their only concern was to make sure he doesn't get re-elected. They couldn't even do that right. Don't get me wrong. I cannot stand Hillary either, but as a person with a rational thinking brain, there's no way I can believe that Trump as the most powerful man in world is a good idea. It's terrifying to tell you the truth.
So far as the Supreme Court. I have a major problem with religion in politics. Period. We don't need a theocracy. (American Taliban)
Loud mouth and rolling dice is absolute insanity in these times. Our entire planet is set to go off like a roman candle and he will be a gasoline covered flare in a fireworks factory.
This is not the time to be rolling dice with our planet and our kids future.

[DEVOREFLYER]

John I really think you are smarter than what you said about Obama and the Congress. That 800 billion in stimulus was for shovel ready jobs that weren’t shovel ready and would have been better served investing in enterprise zones and low interest business startup loans. As for the interest rate it is at historical lows and any increase that would be put in place as a wedge against inflation would crush the interest on the debt. And the current low rate leaves no safety valve to protect against recession recovery. While the Fed lowered interest rates to stimulate the economy the pResident with the blessing of a gutless congress has doubled the debt.

The stock market is a bubble waiting to pop. In the late 1960’s I had an insurance and broker’s license and worked at Dean Whitter and learned just enough about the stock market to be dangerous. Companies have been on a stock buying buy back thus inflating share prices and earnings by doing so. The public has been forced into the market because of the hunt for return/yield with interest being so low. Look at the underlying numbers, earnings and balance sheets suck. And the trading volume has also been at a low for some time.

The economy is a train wreck looking for a place to happen. We are approaching an inversion in the bond market and the last four times that happened we had a recession. The Baltic Dry Exchange (Bulk Oceanic Cargo of raw material) is down, Container Cargo (finished goods) is down with a carrier with 8% of total capacity in bankruptcy, Transportation Index is down, Purchasing Managers Index is down. All of which portend a short, intermediate and long term down turn in the world economy and also here. The Eurozone and a number of countries have gone to negative interest rates and it isn’t changing things for them.

I forgot to mention the “Credit Bubble” that is also looming. Credit card debt is at historical highs and a good friend that is a real estate broker in San Marino has told me that buyer debt is preventing a large number of his buyers from qualifying for loans on the multi million dollar homes he specializes in. The son of another friend is an executive in a national title company and says every state that they have an office in is down from last year with the exception of Oregon.

None of which give me the "Warm and Fuzzies".

[John Harper]

John I really think you are smarter than what you said about Obama and the Congress. That 800 billion in stimulus was for shovel ready jobs that weren’t shovel ready and would have been better served investing in enterprise zones and low interest business startup loans. As for the interest rate it is at historical lows and any increase that would be put in place as a wedge against inflation would crush the interest on the debt. And the current low rate leaves no safety valve to protect against recession recovery. While the Fed lowered interest rates to stimulate the economy the pResident with the blessing of a gutless congress has doubled the debt.

The stock market is a bubble waiting to pop. In the late 1960’s I had an insurance and broker’s license and worked at Dean Whitter and learned just enough about the stock market to be dangerous. Companies have been on a stock buying buy back thus inflating share prices and earnings by doing so. The public has been forced into the market because of the hunt for return/yield with interest being so low. Look at the underlying numbers, earnings and balance sheets suck. And the trading volume has also been at a low for some time.

The economy is a train wreck looking for a place to happen. We are approaching an inversion in the bond market and the last four times that happened we had a recession. The Baltic Dry Exchange (Bulk Oceanic Cargo of raw material) is down, Container Cargo (finished goods) is down with a carrier with 8% of total capacity in bankruptcy, Transportation Index is down, Purchasing Managers Index is down. All of which portend a short, intermediate and long term down turn in the world economy and also here. The Eurozone and a number of countries have gone to negative interest rates and it isn’t changing things for them.

I forgot to mention the “Credit Bubble” that is also looming. Credit card debt is at historical highs and a good friend that is a real estate broker in San Marino has told me that buyer debt is preventing a large number of his buyers from qualifying for loans on the multi million dollar homes he specializes in. The son of another friend is an executive in a national title company and says every state that they have an office in is down from last year with the exception of Oregon.

None of which give me the "Warm and Fuzzies".

Come on Dev, I asked for ideas to move forward. We are where we are. It's taken a lot of Republicans and Democrats to get us here. I want your ideas, not whining about Obama, or how it was in the late 60's. Keynesian policy giving way to monetarist policy, gold standard, oil embargoes, etc. I grew up then and I studied it. Looking backward does nothing. Bitching about things without ideas does nothing either. I want to hear your ideas.

I was hoping for some ideas to reverse your "9 Charts of Doom". How about getting money into housing, construction bonds, etc. Like I said, we are where we are. Where should we go from here? I'm all ears.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

Each and every one of those charts can be turned around with just one word "JOBS".

Trump has spoken on what he would do to turn things around and you can go back four years on this site and some of them I spoke about. One of which is allowing Corporate earnings from off shore operations to be allowed to be repatriated back to the US at favorable tax rates or no tax if invested back into the economy within a short period. It is estimated that the total amount is somewhere between 2 and 4 trillion dollars and would be the biggest stimulus ever at no taxpayer expense. Tell me why we haven't done this already and it could be done immediately.

Second open all of our natural resources to exploration and production. We could be a net exporter of energy and lower energy costs benefit consumers and business alike.

Take a percentage of federal land and unused federal properties and sell on the open market to pay down debt.

Wages gained by employment or the under employed translate into taxable income and also remove people from the government teat (welfare, section 8, food stamps, medicare etc) both of which decrease the debt and add to the economy.

Regulatory reform and tax reform to aid business growth.

Your housing comment is a joke I hope. I spent the last 17 years involved in the housing and commercial building industry as an owner of a property inspection and consulting company. The scope of work that our multi inspector company did ranged from expert witness work in construction defects, property inspections for buyers, sellers and property management company's and lenders and risk management inspections of commercial shopping centers and large housing projects. In talking to past clients there is no reason for the construction business to be down. Interest rates are low, appraisals of property is favorable and lenders have lowered standards. The reasons it ain't happening is incomes have shrunken and people are not confident in the economy and many are out of work or underemployed. I dare you to take a drive into any lower to middle income neighborhood during the day and count the cars parked in driveways and curbside. Multi family's living in a home, commercial vehicles parked at home, people home and not working, they all don't work the night shift.

[Ssortasober]

As I rent an apartment for the first time since 1999, and as I have owned a house since y2k. I struggle to put my boy through UCI, he will not inherit the financial difficulties of student debt as long as I can help.
I've owned a few houses and a few boats. I have none of those things anymore. News flash on FNN, if you make over 40k a year you don't qualify for financial aid anymore. I'll do whatever it takes to make sure my kids aren't burdened by student debt. The older generation got houses and student debt for less. Significantly. Hence the attitude of I got mine. Thump your chest you got in at a great time. Screw anybody else. I'm independent. It's a generational thing, I don't conform anymore.
It appears I have to hold my nose n vote if only for my kids. Regardless of what a dying political party's affiliate has to say.
It is gonna b interesting

[John Harper]

Each and every one of those charts can be turned around with just one word "JOBS".

Who has the power to pass a comprehensive jobs bill? Who has the power to sell federal land? Who can pass a tax reform package? What a about a comprehensive infrastructure and renewable energy program?

Congress can act on any and all of these issues. Why have they not? Couldn't possibly be that "black man in the White House" they irrationally hate so much? Or, is it? How's that empty Supreme Court vacancy coming along? Seems Congress has no problem crippling our branches of government for no good reason.

I hear a lot of talk about rolling back regulations. Most seem to infer that environmental regulations are restraining our economy. What specific regulation(s) is holding us back? Clean air, clean water, clean soil. We can't have a good economy and a healthy environment at the same time? I was not aware that they were mutually exclusive goals. You wanna be able to dump mercury, lead, and arsenic in the groundwater? Like so many toxic streams in Colorado and Wyoming? You want filthy air like Beijing?
Shall we make lead based paints again, just so we can give lead miners more jobs? How about producing more dioxin and PCBs to shore up chemical plant employment?

If the Republicans had not spent eight years acting like Obama was some foreign, Kenyan, Muslim impostor and even grudgingly accepted his Presidency, we might not be in the shape we are.

Just got back from Yuma. Between Ocotillo and El Centro is a huge windfarm as well as a large solar power array. Those infrastructure type projects require skilled workers, and create permanent employment in terms of operations, maintenance, and upgrading. It can be done, we just need the will to do it.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

John I need you to read this obituary of the company I worked for in management for 22 years. And then I will tell you why they failed with the help of the government or rather the lack of help.

Central Falls, R.I., Textile Mill Prepares to Close

Providence Journal (Providence, RI) | June 03, 2001
Byline: Lynn Arditi

Back when noise and light filled the sprawling brick buildings on Roosevelt Avenue, it was hard to believe Elizabeth Webbing Mills would ever die. Machines roared, floorboards trembled and generations of workers, many of them immigrants who spoke barely a word of English, stitched together new lives in Rhode Island’s textile industry.

They ran the machines that wove, wound and dyed the nylon, polyester and polypropylene threads into webbing for seat belts, luggage straps and dog collars. The jobs, back when they started out, paid less than $5 an hour, but there was always overtime and the promise of a raise.

“I remember going home and saying, ‘Mom, look! I got my first paycheck!,’” recalls Nella Fonseca, who began working at the mill as a winder when she was 19. She worked her way up to manager of the processing department. To Fonseca and others like her, the mill looked as solid as the bricks it was made of.

But all around, the graves of textile mills were being dug.

America’s industrial revolution, born just down the road at Samuel Slater’s factory in 1793, had long since left Rhode Island behind. The decline of the state’s textile industry picked up speed after World War II. Mill owners, drawn by cheap labor, headed south and later overseas. By 1980, just two years before Fonseca came to work at Elizabeth Webbing, textile jobs in Rhode Island had fallen to 12,282 – less than half the 28,100 recorded just 20 years earlier, according to the state Department of Labor and Training.

Just 1 in 10 textile jobs remain from what there were 50 years ago; about 6,400 jobs in all as of last year.

Today, most of the mills are small, specialty shops; fewer than two dozen employ more than 100, state data show. Elizabeth Webbing, with 280 people working in 22 buildings, was one of the exceptions. On Friday, the mill's winding machines will stop, the final production workers will be let go, and a business that started 72 years ago will end.

In the weeks to come, what remains of the red, blue, green and yellow webbing will be loaded into cardboard boxes and trucked away to customers. The buildings and machines will be sold to the highest bidders. “The handwriting on the wall has been there 100 years,” says Scott Molloy, professor of labor and industrial relations at the Schmidt Labor Research Center at the University of Rhode Island. “Now we’re just seeing the final death throes.”

For a long time, it seemed that Elizabeth Webbing would be one of the survivors. Its owners had decided, like others in the state, to specialize in straps, belts and other “narrow fabrics.” Such specialization was the only way many Rhode Island mills stayed in business after World War II.

To strengthen its position in those specialty markets, Elizabeth Webbing also invested in new technology to improve productivity. The strategy seemed to be working. In 1991, the company’s president and chief executive officer, Eliot Lifland, stood at the loading dock behind the former Health-tex plant on Roosevelt Avenue and spoke with emotion about realizing his dream of building a “showcase of state-of-the-art technology.”

The company celebrated the opening of the vacant former Health-tex plant across Roosevelt Avenue where it would build a new production center. Lifland, who had taken over the mill from his father, had reason to be proud. The Lifland family had built the company from a tiny mill with sales of about $200,000 to $300,000 a year in 1960, to a sprawling complex with 400 employees and sales of about $70 million by 1990.

And it was growing.

In 1994, Elizabeth Webbing acquired California Webbing Industries Inc., a $9-million narrow-fabric manufacturer in Los Angeles. A year later, it bought new, more modern equipment to extrude the polypropylene thread – a soft but resilient synthetic fiber – the mill used for nearly half of the products it produced.

In 1995, the company boasted 600 employees and sales of about $103 million, according to Lifland. Then, at the end of 1996, Lifland says, problems hit. In retrospect, the company tried to get too big “and didn’t do it the right way,” Lifland says.

The company suffered “significant losses” in 1997 and 1998, according to an executive summary provided by the company. Lifland was asked to step down as CEO in 1997, and the company was turned over to professional managers. In February 1999, George S. West, a graduate of Harvard Business School and an experienced “turn-around manager,” was hired as president and CEO to try to rescue the company. The effort failed.

On March 30, 2000, a year after West arrived, the company filed for protection from its creditors in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Providence under Chapter 11 of the federal bankruptcy laws. The plan, outlined in court documents, was to sell the company’s Unitex division, which distributed industrial awning, sign and marine textile fabrics. Then West could focus on reorganizing the Elizabeth Webbing Mills.

The company sold Unitex last May, and West set out to try to find a buyer for the mill. In January, with the bankruptcy case still pending, the company signed a purchase agreement for the mill with Dimeling Schreiber and Park, a private investment partnership based in Philadelphia. But Dimeling backed out and the deal, which was scheduled to close on Friday, March 16, fell through.

The following Tuesday, with no buyer in sight, West resigned. The next day, the company’s chairman of the board of directors, Robert Wickey, did the same. With the top executives gone and no buyer, Elizabeth Webbing asked the court to convert its Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing to a Chapter 7, which paved the way for liquidation. Peter J. Furness, the company’s lawyer, says there was nothing else he could do.

Since then, Matthew J. McGowan, the court-appointed receiver for the company, has been trying to find a buyer for the mill, but has been unsuccessful. So McGowan is preparing to sell the building and its equipment, which the city values at more than $2 million. The cavernous maze of buildings, linked by underground tunnels, is being shut down one room at a time: weaving, warping, dyeing, processing.

Every Friday for weeks now, it has been a funeral procession of good-byes. Tears, hugs and promises to stay in touch. Nella Fonseca began saying her good-byes two Fridays ago. The hardest part was leaving people like Irene Almeida. She worked at the Number 6 winding machine. At 53, she had given almost half her life to the mill. It was Almeida’s last day, and tears spilled from behind her glasses.

“One of the best cutters,” Fonseca said as she watched her work.

The looms had already stopped running; their metal frames stood like empty jungle-gyms in the darkened room. The only noise was the clanging of tractor-trailers barrelling along Roosevelt Avenue. “It’s like something is missing,” said Czeslawa “Cindy” Bies, an immigrant from Poland who, 23 years ago, followed her parents into a job at the mill. “Like you lost your best friend.”

At 3 o’clock, the shift over, Bies, Almeida and the others stuffed plastic grocery bags with their belongings and lined up at the computerized time clock to punch out. Alipio Bernardo. Fernando Pereira. Manuel Matos. Maria Trinidade. Connie Saraiva. Irene Almeida. Cindy Bies. Nella Fonseca.

“Bye.”

“Bye.”

“Bye Anna.”

“Good luck.”

[John Harper]

Then, at the end of 1996, Lifland says, problems hit. In retrospect, the company tried to get too big “and didn’t do it the right way,” Lifland says.

I don't see government involved in the reason for failure. Lifland himself says it was management mistakes. Lots of companies fail due to over expansion. Usually cash flow issues start the decline.

Unless you think protectionism is a way to grow the economy and expand our markets. Also, what about these folks opening another kind of business? Craft breweries are booming down here in San Diego. Ballast Point just sold for a billion dollars. Buggy whip manufacturers are no longer around, and no one misses them anymore. People just need to look around for opportunity, it's still out there.

Small niche eateries, taco/food trucks, catering businesses, event planning, coffee bars, pet care businesses, day care businesses, fishing guides, etc. Granted, these are all "service" industry businesses, but they can also be successfully run by individuals.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

Being an insider I will tell you the mistakes that were made. Several of the 22 buildings were a hardware manufacturing facility. Basically it was a metal foundry casting parts, another building a stamping mill stamping out metal parts and then the plating building. The plating building did chrome, nickel, brass, cad and zinc plating of finished hardware and parts. There also several other hardware companies in the area doing the same thing and were competitors.

The EPA was cracking down on heavy metals and Elliot decided it would be a good thing (good for the environment and the company’s image) to build a new high tech state of the art plating line. Several millions of dollars were spent on building the new line and exceeding the EPA’s guidelines. The competition however did not make such an investment and sent their parts to Mexico to be plated (thanks to NAFTA). Thus avoiding the EPA and paying no duty on the finished parts when they came back. Millions spent and no competitive advantage in fact quite the opposite.

Then the EPA banned the use of several chemicals used in the dying and treatment of yarn for color fastness and rot. Napthol and Mercury were two of the chemicals used along with others that were banned. Once again Elliot spent millions building a new dye line and treatment in one of the buildings. Also other chemicals were sourced at a much higher cost to replace the ones that were banned. I forgot to mention that the replacement chemicals did not perform as well as the ones that were banned causing customer complaints and claims. All the while once again the competition sent raw material to Mexico (thanks NAFTA) to be dyed and treated with the same chemicals that were banned. While Elliot could have done the same he did not and lost market share of those products, he believed in “Made in the USA” as his father was an immigrant and loved this country.

Being the largest user of polypropylene filament Elliot decided to invest in an extruder and extrude his own filament. Once again a large investment was made in the equipment a very large investment. Running extruding filament requires a lot of energy in the form of electricity in fact the whole company used tremendous amounts of electricity and electricity in Rhode Island was not cheap.
Being both and environment friendly CEO and looking for a cheaper source of energy Elliot looked into hydro power as the main plant was on a river. Two years worth of environmental impact studies at a cost of several hundred thousand dollars and to the dismay of the tree huggers that picketed the hydroplant it was approved. Two more years and two million dollars later the hydro electric dam and power plant was completed and ready to run. Then a glitch, you see the state would not allow the direct hook up from the plant to the mill it had to be hooked up to the local power grid and then be feed back. No big deal except under state law due to the utilities lobbying over the year we were now a power provider and had to sell all the power generated to the utility at a wholesale price and then buy it back at retail. All of a sudden the energy saving were not as great as planned and millions were spent for the utilities benefit and not ours.

At the same time imports from Asia were affecting the profit margin along with a mill that had been established in Los Angeles. Close to 40% of production was shipped and used west of the Rockies and was a significant market. In an attempt to stop the loss of market share and increase production and lower cost, once again by making an investment of many millions in new weaving looms. The Asians had the highest speed and capacity looms and new technology in the world and Elliot bought new looms from Asia and at the same time bought out the west coast competitor.

With no tariffs to slow down the ever increasing flood of product from Asia, shrinking profit margins and a high debt to service it was only a matter of time before the lights got turned off.

In hind sight Elliot should have done as his competitors had done and sent product to Mexico for plating, dying, treatment and finishing. He already had 10 distribution centers across the US and should have slowly started to import product from Asia and backed away from the domestic manufacturing end. He still had a great group in the R & D department and was known to be way ahead of the competition in innovation. But Elliot was stubborn and his belief in “Made in America” was his downfall. But then again I imagine in the back of his head he wondered what he was going to do with those 22 buildings he owned and the 600+ employees that had spent a lifetime working for him and his father before him.

I spent 22 years working for Elliot and I remember when I was hired I was told by the general manage I could make more money working for the competition. But no one could match the benefits provided and if you showed your worth and loyalty you would be treated like family and bonuses would be more than generous based on performance.

[John Harper]

On the topic of selling our federal lands to retire some of the $20 trillion debt. The entire continental United States, if sold, would net $23 trillion. Federal lands account for only $1.8 trillion. I was surprised at these numbers. 47% of all Federal Land is used by agriculture, 92% of Nebraska Federal Land devoted to agriculture. Naturally, our beautiful and precious State of California is the most valued piece of real estate at $3.9 trillion valuation. One state worth almost 20% of all the rest, amazing.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/04/22/how-much-is-the-u-s-worth-economist-values-the-land-alone-at-23-trillion/

I understand some of the difficulties adapting to environmental regulations. Look at the mine spill in Colorado recently. The mining company is long gone, but it's toxic legacy still haunts us. Plating operations are extremely hazardous by nature. Mercury has been a well known danger for centuries, some, like dioxin, was thought completely harmless to humans. Called Agent Orange in Vietnam, and discarded as byproduct in Love Canal, NY. We all know how "harmless" it was now. It's kind of a moral decision, do we want to be good stewards of our heritage, or have a fire sale even though our business is still a powerful "going concern" and logically should be well into the next century. Hell, we're gonna have the B-52 around for 100 years, why worry.

Maybe I'm just more optimistic in the real wealth of our people, our beautiful country, and our freedom to change things when required. Seeing those wind turbines and solar arrays showed me long term clean domestically generated power, skilled permanent workforces, revenue streams due to the product that can retire construction debt. Looked pretty good to me. Some industries die, others survive, and still others are born. Look at all the solar gadgets we have already integrated into daily life. It's already happening, you just have to look for it.

Look at how quickly we all adapted to using our own grocery bags, that still amazes me. Almost everyone just got on board, now it's just a habit, and everyone has them. You want change? You got it. Done. I'm sure some bag manufacturers took a hit, but don't we already know these "convenience" bags have a serious environmental impact much more than the fractional pennies they cost to make?

I do agree that there was probably dumping as well as cheap labor involved in the demise of the textile industries. I am pleased to see no mention of unions being the reason for closing this company. It was not mentioned in your personal statement, nor the obituary for Webb Textiles. I worked for Kaypro Computers in Solana Beach, an early player in the PC industry. It was often plagued with bad family management decisions and while a strong brand for a while, eventually declined and disappeared altogether. It happens.

An excellent read, thank you for taking the time to share.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

While at various times the business was plagued with union plantes/shills the company paid much better than the union and had significantly better benefits as a tribute to Elliot in taking care of the employees which he thought of as family and votes by employees always was not in favor of the union.

I am a firm believer of a "Level Playing Field". The field could have been leveled by the government easily. First if mercury, napthol and the other chemicals banned by the EPA were also banned from products imported containing the same chemicals the field could have been leveled. If a real tariff instead of a lower rate "Value Added" tariff, that would have also lowered the playing field. If the government had allowed an accelerated amortization of capital improvements or government backed lower financing rates cash flow and servicing the debt would have made the business prosper. Lower taxes and or tax credits for doing what is right certainly would have helped also.

Issac Newton was correct in that" Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". To often decisions made by the rookies in DC in the attempt to make things better only succeed in making them worse.

Kaiser Steel is a classic example, the EPA and the AQMD was all over Kaiser Steel for pollution emissions. Kaiser spent 100s of millions to meet the ever increasing standards and when they met the standards they were to only find they had been raised yet again. Kaiser Steel closed putting thousands out of work and crushing the economy in the Inland Empire for years, 100s of support businesses also closed as did trucking companies. Now many years later the old facility is now a rolling mill and the original steel making equipment was bought at a great discount to value and shipped to China. The other irony is that the plate that the rolling mill uses is bought from China made with the same equipment that was originally here. To bad we don't have ability to enforce the same pollution/emission rules to China that Kaiser had to live by. That might level the playing field. This is the level playing field that Trump is talking about.

On another subject we had a major contract with the US Government for a military spec cotton duck that we filled for years. With mills closing in the south we were down to one source for this material. We tried for years to convince the government to spec a synthetic material we made that was not only less costly but out performed the cotton product in every way. Nope the government knew better, so we looked for an offshore source. We had a contact in India that could make the product for us. It wasn't long before I was on my way to check out the textile mill.

Much to my horror the mill was right out of the movie Slum Dog Millionaires. A 100,000 sq ft corrugated tin roof (that you could see daylite through) building with a dirt floor with hand looms manned by hundreds children hand weaving fabric. While I was there early in the morning they were serving breakfast to the child workers. What appeared to be some kind of rice porridge with raisins turned out to be a fetid rice gruel with what appeared to be raisins to be in fact fly's. We elected not to buy fabric from that source and I did not eat breakfast with the staff.

Most people have no clue what poverty really is and the poorest in the USA would be considered upper middle class if not wealthy in much of the third world. The left is on a terror for a $15 an hour minimum wage where $15 a day, a week or a month would be earth shaking in much of the would we have to compete against. Not to mention those countries have no benefits, sick leave, paid vacation, social security or retirement, you don't work you don't eat, even fly infested rice gruel. This is much of what we are expected to compete against in the world market today. I have worked and traveled in 38 states and 8 foreign countries during my past working career and I know how well we have it.

[John Harper]

Dev,

I agree. I would consider the "level playing field" to be more the issue of "fair trade" in some areas over complete "free trade." Although, I'm pretty sure most trade agreements do take into account certain "native" industries in each country. Mexican trucks into the US under NAFTA comes to mind. Forced to meet our highway safety standards after a lengthy battle, as I recall.

Unfortunately, not enough an issue for me to ever consider Mr. Trump. I'll hire a allegedly evil female Pirate Captain (Hillary Sparrow?) to sail my ship over an allegedly wealthy, boastful Snake Oil salesman (of currently unproven wealth) any day. At least one of them knows how to sail, which is about all I want for my country this year.

BTW, tell me why you don't care about Trump's income sources and tax returns? The audit excuse is bullshit. Everyone sure examines Hillary's, Bill's, and the CGI. You're gonna vote for him without knowing anything about his income/debt/charity? That's a leap of faith my friend. Even Mitt Romney showed his, and no one cared he only paid 13% overall. Just showing them was what Americans expect. We love people that make money, we all want to be them. And we all hate taxes, it's that Boston Harbor thing. That's 'Murica in a nutshell. And guns, of course.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

Your kidding right. NAFTA and Mexican trucks while being forced to meet safety rules should have been a no brainier "Don't lives matter" lol, how about meeting pollution rules that US trucks have to meet or maybe requiring them to fill up at our side of the border so we can use some of that fuel tax to pay for the roads on our side they are using. Just a suggestion.

Tell me once again how the Clinton's left the White House claiming to be broke and have now amassed over $150 million in wealth. It's not from practicing as a trial lawyer as Bill lost his law license over perjuring himself, you do remember that don't you.

Common business sense would tell me that Trump made his money by leverage, capital gains, appreciation and using every tax angle in the book afforded to business. All legal of course or the IRS would of had a field day. I also think that much of his income comes from licensing and branding of his name. For a pure tax standpoint and leverage deal lets assume that he builds/develops a property with leveraged money as almost everyone does. He now licensees that property to a company with his name on it under a triple net lease with a lease payment or percent of income as rent, which ever is greater and common in the commercial leasing business. He can now take that long term lease to a lender and once again leverage it into another property or development. Now lets say he finds a distributor of a line of products with an established market and offers them the right to private label a product or products under his brand name, again this is common business practice and he has made no investment and has only lent it his name. I would guess many of his brand products are such. I wouldn't be surprised if in some of his businesses he is only the property owner and landlord. I would rather settle for a income cash stream and rent payment than actually having to run the business in it any day. My gut tells me that unlike the Clinton's his charity gave more than the 10% the Clinton Foundation paid out. I also am certain none of the income to the charity came nowhere near the amount the Clinton's gave to their own charity nor did he take any monies from foreign interests or lobbying firms.

I am further certain that a significant amount of his wealth is paper wealth such as yours and mine. While my home, other assets and investments have a stated book value if they were to be sold on the open market they might actually sell for less, depending on the timing it could be much less than the book valve. If I recall a lot of people had significant paper losses when the stock market and housing market took a dive, the only ones hurt were the ones that had to liquidate those assets.

Just for giggles how about we do some horse trading. Lets trade Trumps financial records for Hillary's health records or Obama's college records. LMAO like that gonna happen.

[John Harper]

I have no quibble how Trump makes his money, especially in the real estate business, there's so many ways. It's just a bit odd his refusal, considering every single Presidential candidate for 50 years has had no issue releasing theirs. What about past tax returns, that are not under audit?

How many politicians make lots of money after leaving office? Dick Cheney didn't work in the oilfields to become head of Halliburton. I wonder how much he made on the Iraq debacle. I'd wager way more than $150 million, and still counting.

I've read that the Clinton Foundation does a hell of a lot of good work around the world. Donations are primary way of funding foundations. I'm sure prominent Republicans have foundations of their own. Aren't GHW Bush and the hated Bill Clinton (Snidely Whiplash) teamed up on some charitable projects?

I'd take your wager. I'm confident Obama's school transcripts would show a superior student. I'm sure Hillary's medical records would show her well within the range considered "healthy" for a woman her age.

That's what Vice Presidents are for in worst case scenario, remember Sarah Palin? Hiring an unknown quantity at the top is a whole different issue. Would you loan Trump your boat? If you did not know he had any money or insurance? Or, told you he did, but wouldn't prove it?

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

John here is something you can watch and it's free. Get back to me with your thoughts after you watch it and we will talk some more.

http://www.breitbart.com/clinton-cash-movie/

You can also watch it on Youtube.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Here’s the real deal John. My bet is you will not take the time to watch nor would I expect you to read the book “Clinton Cash” that has been out many months before the film and on the best seller list for some time.

But this I can tell you for a fact. If as much as a sentence in the book or a single minute of the movie was not truthful the Clintons would have sued for defamation and won.

After 17 years as a litigation consultant and court approved expert witness it would be a slam dunk to prove if anything was false. Trust me the author knows this and more importantly so does the publisher as he would also be named in the suit.
In a defamation suit the plaintiffs (the Clintons) would have to prove the claims made were false and the burden of proof is shifted to them and not the defendant as in other civil trials. While damages are often difficult to prove there is an exception. In a libel action, unless the plaintiff is a public official or public figure, the plaintiff does not need to prove financial damages. The common law has made a policy determination that the publication of defamatory statements in a transmittable, affixed form that is capable of widespread and simple dissemination will certainly cause damage and therefore damage to one's reputation or character is enough for a court to impose damages.

Under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Title V, Rules 25-37:
• Rule 26. Duty to Disclose; General Provisions Governing Discovery
• Rule 27. Depositions to Perpetuate Testimony
• Rule 28. Persons Before Whom Depositions May Be Taken
• Rule 29. Stipulations About Discovery Procedure
• Rule 30. Depositions by Oral Examination
• Rule 31. Depositions by Written Questions
• Rule 32. Using Depositions in Court Proceedings
• Rule 33. Interrogatories to Parties
• Rule 34. Producing Documents, Electronically Stored Information, and Tangible Things, or Entering onto Land, for Inspection and Other Purposes
• Rule 35. Physical and Mental Examinations
• Rule 36. Requests for Admission
• Rule 37. Failure to Make Disclosures or to Cooperate in Discovery; Sanctions

The Clinton's (although Bill lost his license due to committing perjury) are both lawyers and know they would be found out and proven to be the frauds and the crooks they are.

Ladies and gentlemen of the court I rest my case.

[John Harper]

My friend, we only have two choices. Anger, bitterness, and looking backward never solved a thing. At least we both care. And care enough to vote. Our most important civic duty!

If you have a case against Hillary, take it to court or find someone that will. Lot's of folks have tried. Either she's good, or you're all fools chasing fool's gold. I'll take the latter. Habeus Corpus, bring the charges, or go home. I was originally persuaded by the "ancient aliens" theory as a kid after reading Van Danikens books in the 1970's. We all grow up. I still style my hair like the guy on History Channel, so cool. Better than a mullet.

As a Democrat, I naturally have many "deceased, but still voting" or "illiterate" proletariat relatives living with me that have given me their (fraudulent) absentee ballots and (defrauded) SS checks! Vote early, vote often! I have about twenty absentee ballots coming to my address alone. Issa is going down! It's a huge Democrat conspiracy! We're all doing it.

John

[pcuser]

My friend, we only have two choices. Anger and bitterness never solved a thing.

At least we care enough. And care enough to vote. Our most important civic duty!

As a Democrat, I naturally have many "deceased" or "illiterate" relatives that have given me their proxy votes (and SS checks). Vote early, vote often! I have about twenty absentee ballots coming to my address alone. Issa is going down! It's a huge Democrat conspiracy!!!!

John

Same here...

[DEVOREFLYER]

I would love to take them to court but you obviously don't know how the legal system works or how costly it is.

First one must have "Standing" which is a verifiable loss or harm. It cant be something in the future but must have already occurred, future harm if egregious enough could only get the action stayed and the evidence would have to be overwhelming a very high bar to attain.

The very smallest of civil claims can cost a minimum of $40,000 before getting to trial. And lawyers can't take the case on contingency and no lawyer could afford to take the case pro bono.

Oh an I guess I won the bet and you didn't watch the film. "Eyes wide shut" eh. And I would further bet your the kind of guy that when a life threatening diagnosis made by you doctor doesn't seek a second opinion either.

And for what it's worth the investigative reporter/author found and resourced all of the info about the Clinton Foundation from publicly available sources. I am sure the the Clinton followers are just as capable in uncovering such on the Trump Foundation, I wonder why they haven't. Only two answers possible are one there is nothing to be found incriminating or they are to stupid to find anything, my guess is the first. The DNC certainly has enough money to hire the best to find the dirt don't they.

Trump has been in the public eye for well over 30+ years and in the digital age everything is recorded history and isn't hard to find if you know how to do it. I was doing legal research before the internet it's just easier now and the pay is better. Every candidate does opposition research on their opponent and if Trumps 16 opponents had found anything they certainly would have used it against him in the primary. Are you telling the Bush machine with it contacts and money and Bush being the presumptive nominee couldn't find anything. Well I guess they couldn't or they would certainly would have used it as there was no love for Trump by Bush.

In my lifetime every elected President was a professional politician/lawyer except four. A General, a peanut farmer, an actor. And maybe five if you count a community organizer as he had no authored legislation in either the state or US Senate and voted present most of the time. Seeing as how the US Government is really the largest business in the world and certainly the largest employer in the US I think a President might just be a good fit. History has showen that the the vast majority of politicians haven't exactly done a very good job.

[John Harper]

Same here...

I just rented some P.O. Boxes in my voting district. How many dead relatives can I stuff in there? Thank goodness for ancestry.com. And absentee ballots!!!!

John

[John Harper]

I would love to take them to court but you obviously don't know how the legal system works or how costly it is.

First one must have "Standing" which is a verifiable loss or harm. It cant be something in the future but must have already occurred, future harm if egregious enough could only get the action stayed and the evidence would have to be overwhelming a very high bar to attain.

The very smallest of civil claims can cost a minimum of $40,000 before getting to trial. And lawyers can't take the case on contingency and no lawyer could afford to take the case pro bono.

You take me for a fool? I know exactly what "standing" is and why you don't have it. I thought you would show a little respect, as I've shown you. Showing off for the gang?

I've never sued, been sued, or been arrested. Legal system costs are obviously something you are more familiar with.

Please don't talk down to me. You will never have the right. Who the hell are you? You are pretty presumptuous about other's backgrounds. You'd be surprised.

If you can't convince me in a few words, why watch a movie. I got better things to do.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

This was your quote "If you have a case against Hillary, take it to court or find someone that will. Lot's of folks have tried. Either she's good, or you're all fools chasing fool's gold. I'll take the latter. Habeus Corpus, bring the charges, or go home. I was originally persuaded by the "ancient aliens" theory as a kid after reading Van Danikens books in the 1970's. We all grow up. I still style my hair like the guy on History Channel, so cool. Better than a mullet."

Who's playing games you or me, you brought the above up and I responded. I have always been open to an opposing opinion and then by nature looked for fact as was required in my vocation. To often in life that which is presented as fact turns out to be false or fiction. Facts always outweighs opinion and the most credible witness even. Facts are facts and are unchangeable regardless how bad we want them to be otherwise. Life is like a ballgame, you win some, you lose some and you get a few rain outs.

Like I said "Eyes Wide Closed". I always look both ways before crossing the street and much the same can be said in my life I don't take something for fact just because one side said it.

And while you were a kid in the 1970's I was a 30 something adult with a family to support. I also grew up before the advent of taking mind altering drugs and unicorns and rainbows became popular. Totally different perspective on life between us and the world I would guess.

[etucker1959]

I would love to take them to court but you obviously don't know how the legal system works or how costly it is.

First one must have "Standing" which is a verifiable loss or harm. It cant be something in the future but must have already occurred, future harm if egregious enough could only get the action stayed and the evidence would have to be overwhelming a very high bar to attain.

The very smallest of civil claims can cost a minimum of $40,000 before getting to trial. And lawyers can't take the case on contingency and no lawyer could afford to take the case pro bono.

Oh an I guess I won the bet and you didn't watch the film. "Eyes wide shut" eh. And I would further bet your the kind of guy that when a life threatening diagnosis made by you doctor doesn't seek a second opinion either.

And for what it's worth the investigative reporter/author found and resourced all of the info about the Clinton Foundation from publicly available sources. I am sure the the Clinton followers are just as capable in uncovering such on the Trump Foundation, I wonder why they haven't. Only two answers possible are one there is nothing to be found incriminating or they are to stupid to find anything, my guess is the first. The DNC certainly has enough money to hire the best to find the dirt don't they.

Trump has been in the public eye for well over 30+ years and in the digital age everything is recorded history and isn't hard to find if you know how to do it. I was doing legal research before the internet it's just easier now and the pay is better. Every candidate does opposition research on their opponent and if Trumps 16 opponents had found anything they certainly would have used it against him in the primary. Are you telling the Bush machine with it contacts and money and Bush being the presumptive nominee couldn't find anything. Well I guess they couldn't or they would certainly would have used it as there was no love for Trump by Bush.

In my lifetime every elected President was a professional politician/lawyer except four. A General, a peanut farmer, an actor. And maybe five if you count a community organizer as he had no authored legislation in either the state or US Senate and voted present most of the time. Seeing as how the US Government is really the largest business in the world and certainly the largest employer in the US I think a President might just be a good fit. History has showen that the the vast majority of politicians haven't exactly done a very good job.

You and John were having such a good time I didn't want to butt in!!!!! However, your first statement of this comment made me fall out of my chair. Then I couldn't stop laughing!!!!! You mention how costly the legal system can be. With all the Billionaire Republicans out there financing their favorite candidates. If their was a ghost of a chance to take the Clinton's to court to prove ANY wrong doings they committed. The lack of MONEY could never be used as an excuse for not taking them to court. It's too easy for some deep pocketed individual to form some shill organization and sue the crap out of the Clinton's!!!!!

[DockRat]

DR
The economy. Trump has ZERO track record and you can't just build stuff and not pay for it and file bankruptcy when POTUS. I'll take four more years of still being employed vs. the risk of a WW3 because a spoiled brat felt insulted in a tweet. He has no self control at all and knows nothing. Everything he says is a lie or he changes his mind. He's said absolutely nothing about how he's going to "Make America Great Again". Ask any black person when exactly was America great for them. We aren't even close solving those issues. We elected a black president and the first thing the republicans did was say that their only concern was to make sure he doesn't get re-elected. They couldn't even do that right. Don't get me wrong. I cannot stand Hillary either, but as a person with a rational thinking brain, there's no way I can believe that Trump as the most powerful man in world is a good idea. It's terrifying to tell you the truth.
So far as the Supreme Court. I have a major problem with religion in politics. Period. We don't need a theocracy. (American Taliban)
Loud mouth and rolling dice is absolute insanity in these times. Our entire planet is set to go off like a roman candle and he will be a gasoline covered flare in a fireworks factory.
This is not the time to be rolling dice with our planet and our kids future.

Your funny Brent, Zero track record ? :LOL: He had had upwards of 500 companies, and a few failed. Pretty much normal for a businessman who has many pans in the fryer.
He is a bit of a wild card but look at the other option, Hillary :Shocked:. Where is her track record ? :Rolls Eyes:
Would you want Hillary bringing in Hundreds of thousand refugees ? What would she do for the economy.

Look at the last seven years, divided country, HUGE Debt, record aid getting dished out. Good thing you have a job because Uncle Sam needs more of your taxes.
Have you watched Clinton Cash ? Harper is scared to watch it, how about you?
Not a big Trump fan but the choice is pretty obvious if you have a job or assets.

"This is not the time to be rolling dice with our planet and our kids future"
A little paranoid ? Do you honestly the he wants to start WWIII ? :Rolls Eyes:

The country needs a businessman, he wants to go after all the crappy trade deals and slam these countries with some tariffs.

Why is Hillary hiding from the press, doesn't want a meltdown ?
Check out this Doctors idea about Hillary having Parkinsons, I think he is on to something.

[DockRat]

Does Hillary Have Parkinson's Disease ?
This Doctor explains the facts about her history on her video appearances that appear to be Parkinsons.
His explanation video was made before her 4 min coughing on tape from this last weekend.
Hillary says it is allergies, even though these spats have happened at different times of the year?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr1IDQ2V1eM

[John Harper]

And while you were a kid in the 1970's I was a 30 something adult with a family to support. I also grew up before the advent of taking mind altering drugs and unicorns and rainbows became popular. Totally different perspective on life between us and the world I would guess.

There you go, talking down again.

You do understand that my vote counts just as much as yours?

Good Day, Sir!

John

[John Harper]

Harper is scared to watch it

Please don't give up you're day job, comedy is not your schtick.

I have read several reviews of the book, "Clinton Cash". The author is not exactly an "unbiased" reporter based on previous publications, and it appears there are quite a few factual errors, mentioned in all reviews. It's only about 250 pages, so I probably can find a couple hours to waste some afternoon. I always love a good conspiracy story. Seems like a thin book to carry such a big bang.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

There you go, talking down again.

You do understand that my vote counts just as much as yours?

Good Day, Sir!

John

Actually my vote cancels out your vote.....Checkmate.....:Envious:

[DEVOREFLYER]

John if you haven’t bailed I took the time to explore the original question of Student debt. My original answer of interest rate reduction and terms along with my original statement of choices people make seem to be a major factor in the debt issue.

I will post a few links for your review.

In looking at the links the average debt is just below $29,000 as an average. This does not seem to be a huge debt if you have a job. The average 6% interest and 10 year term could certainly be adjusted to assist in handling the debt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/average-student-debt_us_562f766de4b0c66bae595a2c

Looking at another site I was surprised to see the top 10 Colleges for student debt lacking the names of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech and USC all known for very high tuition.

The 10 listed were mostly small private colleges with Liberal Arts Majors in the majority. Another interesting fact was the low number of students graduating in four years. Shocking because they were not majoring in quantum physics, engineering or medicine it was freaking liberal arts. Further shocking was how low the colleges generally rated, they were far from top tier. It defies common sense that someone would go to a college with a high tuition and take a major that affords low economic opportunity and then complain about the debt load. It’s all about the choices you make in life.

Click on any of these colleges and follow the numbers.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2016-06-21/10-colleges-where-grads-owe-the-most

[John Harper]

John if you haven’t bailed I took the time to explore the original question of Student debt. My original answer of interest rate reduction and terms along with my original statement of choices people make seem to be a major factor in the debt issue.

I will post a few links for your review.

In looking at the links the average debt is just below $29,000 as an average. This does not seem to be a huge debt if you have a job. The average 6% interest and 10 year term could certainly be adjusted to assist in handling the debt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/average-student-debt_us_562f766de4b0c66bae595a2c

Looking at another site I was surprised to see the top 10 Colleges for student debt lacking the names of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech and USC all known for very high tuition.

The 10 listed were mostly small private colleges with Liberal Arts Majors in the majority. Another interesting fact was the low number of students graduating in four years. Shocking because they were not majoring in quantum physics, engineering or medicine it was freaking liberal arts. Further shocking was how low the colleges generally rated, they were far from top tier. It defies common sense that someone would go to a college with a high tuition and take a major that affords low economic opportunity and then complain about the debt load. It’s all about the choices you make in life.

Click on any of these colleges and follow the numbers.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2016-06-21/10-colleges-where-grads-owe-the-most

Yes, lots of the top schools have such large endowments they can actually offer a great education tuition free. Thanks for the link! I believe Harvard, Stanford, and USC are well on their way to having these programs in place. I got through UCSD and my sister through SDSU in four years. Not sure when this "five year" degree norm took over. I've heard finding classes makes it very difficult today at a lot of schools.

BTW, I actually got a full scholarship to the USC MBA program (thanks UCSD!) back in the 1980's. I always wondered if they saw the name "Harper" on my application and figured I was African-American.

Perhaps some "debt forgiveness" for successfully completing a degree, based on GPA? Better grades, less debt?

I think some of the "for profit" colleges take financial advantage of students as well should be severely scrutinized. National, Phoenix, all seem pretty shady.

Ah, but in the end, Kalifornia will definitely hand all her electoral votes to Kaptain Hillary Sparrow! The tattered Black Flag of Klinton will fly above the White House once again. Chaos in the streets will ensue. Humanity as we all currently know it will end.

Liberal gun owners (like me) will police the streets. Take free stuff from us, or die, scum!

Peace, baby.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

Liberal Gun owner LMAO. You won't be for long if Hillary gets in. But then you only need a shot gun like Biden says eh. It's gonna be tough fighting off the hoard and being legal with the lead free ban. I don't seem to be able to find rifled slugs or 00 Buck in lead free, you got a source.

If I wear both of these at the same time will ya consider me part of your liberal gun owner group and take me in.
49009

[John Harper]

Liberal Gun owner LMAO. You won't be for long if Hillary gets in. But then you only need a shot gun like Biden says eh. It's gonna be tough fighting off the hoard and being legal with the lead free ban. I don't seem to be able to find rifled slugs or 00 Buck in lead free, you got a source.

If I wear both of these at the same time will ya consider me part of your liberal gun owner group and take me in.
49009

A fat butch lesbian astride a gelded unicorn, clutching an old BAR , across a rainbow background is our new battle flag!

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

A fat butch lesbian astride a gelded unicorn, clutching an old BAR , across a rainbow background is our new battle flag!

John

LMAO

Reminds me when I was a partner in one of my first businesses manufacturing outdoor aports equipment. Browning arms company was a client we did private labeling for. Visiting the headquarters in Mountain Green, UT I was given the royal tour. In the basement of the building that the engineers called the library was at least one each of every firearm John Browning and the company ever designed or built. Many were one of a kind that never went to market, breath taking to someone that liked firearms. Oh and did I say they also had an underground firing range and I got to fire a number of guns of my choosing for giggles and a BAR was one of them. I regret to this day on not taking advantage of the vendor discount afforded and not buying all the Belgium made Browning's I could afford. Would have made one of my better investments for sure.

[John Harper]

LMAO

Reminds me when I was a partner in one of my first businesses manufacturing outdoor aports equipment. Browning arms company was a client we did private labeling for. Visiting the headquarters in Mountain Green, UT I was given the royal tour. In the basement of the building that the engineers called the library was at least one each of every firearm John Browning and the company ever designed or built. Many were one of a kind that never went to market, breath taking to someone that liked firearms. Oh and did I say they also had an underground firing range and I got to fire a number of guns of my choosing for giggles and a BAR was one of them. I regret to this day on not taking advantage of the vendor discount afforded and not buying all the Belgium made Browning's I could afford. Would have made one of my better investments for sure.

I have an old Browning Double Auto of my dad's. Came with two barrels and leather case, which I still have.

Wow, this thread is ending up like "Mr. Rogers Neighborhood." Maybe there is hope.

John

[etucker1959]

Liberal Gun owner LMAO. You won't be for long if Hillary gets in. But then you only need a shot gun like Biden says eh. It's gonna be tough fighting off the hoard and being legal with the lead free ban. I don't seem to be able to find rifled slugs or 00 Buck in lead free, you got a source.

If I wear both of these at the same time will ya consider me part of your liberal gun owner group and take me in.
49009

Another prediction!!!! Hilary is now going to take away our guns!!!! I thought Obama was suppose to do that in his first term. Then when he didn't do that, he was FOR SURE going to do it in his 2nd term. Well did he?????? HELL NO!!!!! Now the Conservatives are doubling down with Hilary. Dev in court when a witness get's discredited, like all the Conservatives predictions with Obama on guns. Rational people just say to those individuals, "go sit in the corner while the adults in the room try to work things out!!!"

[John Harper]

Another prediction!!!! Hilary is now going to take away our guns!!!! I thought Obama was suppose to do that in his first term. Then when he didn't do that, he was FOR SURE going to do it in his 2nd term. Well did he?????? HELL NO!!!!!

I'm not so worried about First Komrad Madame Klinton as I am the Kalifornia Xentral Kommitee, aka, the State Legislature.

From what I just heard, my 30 round M1 Carbine mags may soon be (or already?) no longer legal, even though they have been in the family since the 1940's? No more grandfather rules? I got no problem with 10 shot for new mags (seems reasonable), but original equipment and pre-law mags? 30 rounds is not the issue, devaluing personal property without compensation is. Should they not purchase them from me? Or a small registration fee to possess, like $5 per magazine?

Isn't that an ex post facto law? Isn't that an unlawful "takings" of property without compensation? (That's what a high price lawyer dove hunting buddy of mine says) I have standing, because this law affects me directly. Where's Judicial Watch when I need them? ACLU, my Constitutional rights are being quashed! No Justice, No Peace!

I'm definitely voting this issue for my local representative choice. Gun owner and liberal in this case.

John

[DarkShadow]

LOL, John. Quit rattling the cages. The monkeys have been known to throw their own filth in defense of not being as wise as the people staring at them, wondering how on earth they've survived for so long.

Plus, I'm more concerned about Obama taking our Internet. First our healthcare, then our guns, now my porn!?!

http://rickwells.us/obama-stealing-internet-americans-soros/

[John Harper]

LOL, John. Quit rattling the cages. The monkeys have been known to throw their own filth in defense of not being as wise as the people staring at them, wondering how on earth they've survived for so long.

Plus, I'm more concerned about Obama taking our Internet. First our healthcare, then our guns, now my porn!?!

http://rickwells.us/obama-stealing-internet-americans-soros/

Feces can be very cathartic. We all had a group hug and it's wonderful. Cookies and milk next, yum.

I read your recent flyfishing adventures, well done. Sounds like quite a trip.

John

[DEVOREFLYER]

I'm not so worried about First Komrad Madame Klinton as I am the Kalifornia Xentral Kommitee, aka, the State Legislature.

From what I just heard, my 30 round M1 Carbine mags may soon be (or already?) no longer legal, even though they have been in the family since the 1940's? No more grandfather rules? I got no problem with 10 shot for new mags (seems reasonable), but original equipment and pre-law mags? 30 rounds is not the issue, devaluing personal property without compensation is. Should they not purchase them from me? Or a small registration fee to possess, like $5 per magazine?

Isn't that an ex post facto law? Isn't that an unlawful "takings" of property without compensation? (That's what a high price lawyer dove hunting buddy of mine says) I have standing, because this law affects me directly. Where's Judicial Watch when I need them? ACLU, my Constitutional rights are being quashed! No Justice, No Peace!

I'm definitely voting this issue for my local representative choice. Gun owner and liberal in this case.

John


Your a little late to the party John if you had been an NRA member you would of heard of this before the legislature was voted on it and before Brown signed it into law. It was not the only anti gun law Brown signed but one of many. I wrote, faxed, e-mail and phoned my legislator (gun friendly guy and a no vote) and the Governor to no avail as did many many other gun owners. There is now a petition drive to veto the laws and you can sign it at your local gun dealer or Turners. I have already signed it. Also on the ballot is a similar far reaching anti gun ballot initiative you should vote against. It's the liberal way that that you can't eat an elephant (gun control) at once you do it in small bites. Nibble, nibble, nibble until it is all gone. If you happen to own an evil black rifle you will have to register it and can not sell it, gift or will it to anyone in the state. Your heirs would have to sell it to a gun store or surrender it to the authorities. Wanna guess how much you would get from a gun dealer under the law that was passed 10-35% of fair value would be my guess. Nibble, nibble, nibble.

https://www.vetogunmageddon.org/petition-locator/

There was one gun bill Brown vetoed. It was reinstating the theft of a firearm from a misdemeanor to a felony that occurred when SB47 passed and reduced the felony charge several years ago. You can't make this stuff up.

[John Harper]

Your a little late to the party John if you had been an NRA member you would of heard of this before the legislature was voted on it and before Brown signed it into law. It was not the only anti gun law Brown signed but one of many. I wrote, faxed, e-mail and phoned my legislator (gun friendly guy and a no vote) and the Governor to no avail as did many many other gun owners. There is now a petition drive to veto the laws and you can sign it at your local gun dealer or Turners. I have already signed it. Also on the ballot is a similar far reaching anti gun ballot initiative you should vote against. It's the liberal way that that you can't eat an elephant (gun control) at once you do it in small bites. Nibble, nibble, nibble until it is all gone. If you happen to own an evil black rifle you will have to register it and can not sell it, gift or will it to anyone in the state. Your heirs would have to sell it to a gun store or surrender it to the authorities. Wanna guess how much you would get from a gun dealer under the law that was passed 10-35% of fair value would be my guess. Nibble, nibble, nibble.

There was one gun bill Brown vetoed. It was reinstating the theft of a firearm from a misdemeanor to a felony that occurred when SB47 passed and reduced the felony charge several years ago. You can't make this stuff up.

I'll definitely sign the petition. I heard you could not pass on ANY firearms to family. I'm glad this is not true, another "takings" issue. They had something like this in the 1980's as I recall. I'm surprised I have not read about this in the LA Times or my Guns and Ammo magazine, they're pretty tight with the NRA. I used to be a member, but we can debate that another time.

I don't have a black rifle, grew up shooting a .222 Remington at ground squirrels. A couple carbines and an SKS is about it.

I've kinda always thought some kind of "qualification" ought to take place to purchase a certain "class" of firearm. Like a motorcycle license, class 3, racing license, etc. You can own a firearm, but it's a single shot/bolt rifle (or revolver), then you must qualify for more complicated weaponry (semi auto pistols or rifles). Maybe an instructional course for a "class" license. I think States could conceivably regulate that way. Safe and sane it seems. No doubt gun manufacturers would hate it

I'm not sure how/if this conflicts with the right of self defense, but it was just my idea about a way to keep unskilled amateurs from killing themselves or other family members, which is where it happens most the time. Especially semi auto pistols. Cleaning accidents and accidental discharges are way too common.

John

[DarkShadow]

I read your recent flyfishing adventures, well done. Sounds like quite a trip.

Any fleeting moment spent outside of the circus that life has become as of late was good, especially if it involves a fly rod.

But, while I do enjoy the wilderness, getting back to #TacoTrucksOnEveryCorner was good too. Nothing like a belly full of El Pastor and Asada after a long day, while at the same time you are contributing to our economy by supporting a small business owner.

[DEVOREFLYER]

This law is not any different than one that was passed to make illegal Ivory. Current California law allows the purchase and sale of ivory imported prior to 1977, which has created a parallel illegal market and made the law nearly impossible to enforce. AB 96 fixes this by eliminating the pre-1977 loophole in California's ivory law and banning the sale, offer for sale, possession with intent to sell and importation with intent to sell of elephant, mammoth, narwhal, whale, walrus and hippo ivory, along with rhinoceros horn. It also increases penalties for traffickers to up to roughly $50,000 and/or one year in prison. The bill contains limited exceptions for antique musical instruments that have proper documentation showing they're old and antique objects comprised of less than 5 percent ivory, as the vast majority of the illegal ivory trade involves objects made entirely or almost entirely of ivory. Scientific and educational institutions will also continue to be able to buy and sell ivory with certain restrictions.

AB 96 will become effective July 1, 2016. After that, hopefully we'll be able to walk around places like San Francisco's Wharf and Chinatown without the gruesome sight of carved ivory tusks in the store windows. In the meantime, we'll be assessing opportunities for similar legislation in other states. On the federal level, we'll also be encouraging the U.S. Fish and Wildlife to strengthen its proposed rule on the interstate ivory trade and ensuring that it doesn't bend to the wishes of the National Rifle Association and weaken these planned regulations.

The passing of this law means that several pistols I had with Ivory grips and a Chinese statue I inherited over 40 years ago that came from my great uncles estate and harvested over a 100 years before I inherited can not be sold. I have since moved those items out of state to my son in Texas and can no longer enjoy them.

My great uncle and his wife were both wealthy and used their wealth to benefit society while they were the 1% of their time. His wife was a leader in women's rights.

Olaf N. Guldlin, who emigrated to the United States one year later than
Unger, was a graduate of Bergen's Technical College and a student at the
Munich Polytechnicum. He lived in Fort Wayne, Indiana, from 1884 until
his death in 1932. In 1888 he formed with two other men a partnership of
consulting gas engineers; two years later it was incorporated, after
changes in partners, under the name Western Gas Construction Company,
with Guldlin as president and general manager. In 1917 the Koppers
Company of Pittsburgh took a five-year lease on the firm; they purchased
it in 1922 and Guldlin retired as president but continued as a member of
the board of directors. Despite his business and managerial experience,
Guldlin's chief work was technical. He designed and patented about 50
devices, including a gas condenser, a coal-treating apparatus, an ammonia
washer, and numerous governors and valves for use in the gas industry. He
won a grand prize at the Louisiana Purchase Exposition in St. Louis,
1904, in recognition of his inventions and developments. At the San
Francisco Panama-Pacific Exposition in 1917, Guldlin was honored with a
gold medal on the recommendation of the American Gas Institute. He
retired in 1922. {41}

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/0731412.pdf

http://historycenterfw.blogspot.com/2011/03/addie-bleekman-guldlin-notable-reformer.html

[John Harper]

This law is not any different than one that was passed to make illegal Ivory. Current California law allows the purchase and sale of ivory imported prior to 1977, which has created a parallel illegal market and made the law nearly impossible to enforce. AB 96 fixes this by eliminating the pre-1977 loophole in California's ivory law and banning the sale, offer for sale, possession with intent to sell and importation with intent to sell of elephant, mammoth, narwhal, whale, walrus and hippo ivory, along with rhinoceros horn. It also increases penalties for traffickers to up to roughly $50,000 and/or one year in prison. The bill contains limited exceptions for antique musical instruments that have proper documentation showing they're old and antique objects comprised of less than 5 percent ivory, as the vast majority of the illegal ivory trade involves objects made entirely or almost entirely of ivory. Scientific and educational institutions will also continue to be able to buy and sell ivory with certain restrictions.

AB 96 will become effective July 1, 2016. After that, hopefully we'll be able to walk around places like San Francisco's Wharf and Chinatown without the gruesome sight of carved ivory tusks in the store windows. In the meantime, we'll be assessing opportunities for similar legislation in other states. On the federal level, we'll also be encouraging the U.S. Fish and Wildlife to strengthen its proposed rule on the interstate ivory trade and ensuring that it doesn't bend to the wishes of the National Rifle Association and weaken these planned regulations.

The passing of this law means that several pistols I had with Ivory grips and a Chinese statue I inherited over 40 years ago that came from my great uncles estate and harvested over a 100 years before I inherited can not be sold. I have since moved those items out of state to my son in Texas and can no longer enjoy them.

That's a tough one. With gun regulations, you can always undo what you've done with one bill and enough votes. They can stamp out AR's and magazines till the sun burns out.

When the last whale/elephant/rhinoceros/tiger is gone, what do we tell our children? That the pursuit and worship of vanity and virility are more important than the most majestic gifts of our natural heritage? I sometimes think this is what Jesus Christ was really cautioning us about.

John

[CHUCKY]

I'm voting for trump. Im tired of the government control over everything. All the regulations are killing jobs. It's time for a change.

[Theos]

I'm not so worried about First Komrad Madame Klinton as I am the Kalifornia Xentral Kommitee, aka, the State Legislature.

From what I just heard, my 30 round M1 Carbine mags may soon be (or already?) no longer legal, even though they have been in the family since the 1940's? No more grandfather rules? I got no problem with 10 shot for new mags (seems reasonable), but original equipment and pre-law mags? 30 rounds is not the issue, devaluing personal property without compensation is. Should they not purchase them from me? Or a small registration fee to possess, like $5 per magazine?

Isn't that an ex post facto law? Isn't that an unlawful "takings" of property without compensation? (That's what a high price lawyer dove hunting buddy of mine says) I have standing, because this law affects me directly. Where's Judicial Watch when I need them? ACLU, my Constitutional rights are being quashed! No Justice, No Peace!

I'm definitely voting this issue for my local representative choice. Gun owner and liberal in this case.

John

If you can shoot you don't need 30 rounds.

[Theos]

I'm not so worried about First Komrad Madame Klinton as I am the Kalifornia Xentral Kommitee, aka, the State Legislature.

From what I just heard, my 30 round M1 Carbine mags may soon be (or already?) no longer legal, even though they have been in the family since the 1940's? No more grandfather rules? I got no problem with 10 shot for new mags (seems reasonable), but original equipment and pre-law mags? 30 rounds is not the issue, devaluing personal property without compensation is. Should they not purchase them from me? Or a small registration fee to possess, like $5 per magazine?

Isn't that an ex post facto law? Isn't that an unlawful "takings" of property without compensation? (That's what a high price lawyer dove hunting buddy of mine says) I have standing, because this law affects me directly. Where's Judicial Watch when I need them? ACLU, my Constitutional rights are being quashed! No Justice, No Peace!

I'm definitely voting this issue for my local representative choice. Gun owner and liberal in this case.

John

Hide your **** and keep it gangster...

[DarkShadow]

Hillary fainted.

I will not vote for a candidate who has correctable health issues. I mean what's next?! Electing a president who has polio!?

The nerve.

[Lady Quagga]

Hillary fainted.

I will not vote for a candidate who has correctable health issues. I mean what's next?! Electing a president who has polio!?

The nerve.

Hey, at least this is the first time Republicans have cared about a woman's health in, well, forever.

Progress.

[DockRat]

Hey, at least this is the first time I care about Republicans.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/randallrussell/Blog/Dees/dollar_dees.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/randallrussell/media/Blog/Dees/dollar_dees.jpg.html)

[DEVOREFLYER]

Breaking news..........

49068

[etucker1959]

Breaking news..........

49068

I don't know how anyone can pick on Hillary when the alternative is clearly "INSANE!!!" Unlike the Donald or the Conseratives on this board I can site facts to back up my statements. Example the Donald is now saying "Clinton" was the one who claimed that Obama was born in Kenya and not in the USA. Come on!!!!! Everyone who was paying attention knows Trump was the one who leading the parade on the birther movement. For him to now say, "it's wasn't me" but was my opponent who was saying those things. Is clearly someone who doesn't have a grasp of reality!!!!

You "FOOLS" on here are willing to vote for a "CRAZY MAN" and give him the ability to start a war with someone or nothing. What the F is wrong with you people???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????

You know Dev this isn't funny anymore to pick on the Liberals when the stakes are so high!!!!! This Ahole you are going to vote for may F up the whole world!!!!!!!!! Are you willing to take that chance?????

After dealing with that other guy, it was pointed out all it takes is Trump and his 1 hand picked crony who is there just to verify the President is the President (Secretary of Defense) to launch a nuclear strike at anyone!!!!!!!

Here is another vetted Trump statement, "I know more then the Generals!!!!!" Doesn't this sound like someone who is crazy enough to use nuclear weapons against someone?????? If Trump was stupid enough to launch a nuclear weapon against North Korea for example. There goes South Korea and maybe Japan. What then do you think the Chinese would do if nuclear weapons were going off all around them???? What about against Iran???? Don't you think it's plausible if Iran had a secret nuclear weapon, they would retaliate against Israel with it??? What do you think the Israelis would do????? Did you ever consider that just might cause the whole neighborhood to go up in flames.

Is your blind hatred of the other side clouded your judgement so much????? You would even vote for a crazy man for President as long as he had the Republican party next to his name??????

Keep making fun of the Liberals, at least if they win you'll probably still wake up in the morning with the world still intact!!!!!!!!

[hookdfisherman]

.



I don't know how anyone can pick on Hillary when the alternative is clearly "INSANE!!!" Unlike the Donald or the Conseratives on this board I can site facts to back up my statements. Example the Donald is now saying "Clinton" was the one who claimed that Obama was born in Kenya and not in the USA. Come on!!!!! Everyone who was paying attention knows Trump was the one who leading the parade on the birther movement. For him to now say, "it's wasn't me" but was my opponent who was saying those things. Is clearly someone who doesn't have a grasp of reality!!!!

You "FOOLS" on here are willing to vote for a "CRAZY MAN" and give him the ability to start a war with someone or nothing. What the F is wrong with you people???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????

You know Dev this isn't funny anymore to pick on the Liberals when the stakes are so high!!!!! This Ahole you are going to vote for may F up the whole world!!!!!!!!! Are you willing to take that chance?????

After dealing with that other guy, it was pointed out all it takes is Trump and his 1 hand picked crony who is there just to verify the President is the President (Secretary of Defense) to launch a nuclear strike at anyone!!!!!!!

Here is another vetted Trump statement, "I know more then the Generals!!!!!" Doesn't this sound like someone who is crazy enough to use nuclear weapons against someone?????? If Trump was stupid enough to launch a nuclear weapon against North Korea for example. There goes South Korea and maybe Japan. What then do you think the Chinese would do if nuclear weapons were going off all around them???? What about against Iran???? Don't you think it's plausible if Iran had a secret nuclear weapon, they would retaliate against Israel for example. What do you think the Israelis would do????? Did you ever consider that just might cause the whole neighborhood to go up in flames.

Is your blind hatred of the other side clouded your judgement so much????? You would even vote for a crazy man for President as long as he had the Republican party next to his name??????

Keep making fun of the Liberals, at least if they win you'll probably still wake up in the morning with the world still intact!!!!!!!!



was this ever debunked?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLGItF-Y8Uc



.

[DarkShadow]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/exclusive-george-hw-bush-to-vote-for-hillary-228395

GW going senile?

[hookdfisherman]

.



.






was this ever debunked?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLGItF-Y8Uc



.







is this true?




Miss Universe Alicia Machado accused of threatening to kill judge in late '90s

.

[pcuser]

Any comments after the third debate? Or will you all keep us in suspense until after the election?

[HawgZWylde]

Any comments after the third debate? Or will you all keep us in suspense until after the election?

I'm waiting for algore's expert advice to come out on clinton news network...

[hookdfisherman]

.




well well well



.

[DEVOREFLYER]

New HilLIARy logo.........

49176

[Lady Quagga]

New HilLIARy logo.........

49176

No, not really....

....except for you sex-craved folks....

[hookdfisherman]

.


*****news flash*****















cliton just flipped her boat, it happened overnight in the ocean, she was spotted around noon the following day.



did she and her crew have their life vests on?



we'll find out in about a week...




.

[Brent]

.they are a problem , it doesnt touch everybody......ive been in the flooring install buisness for 41 yrs , im licensed bonded and insured and i have to compete against illegal people who work for half the money..........really.......ive seen it all across the construction industry....wages driven down and backwards and ppeoples standard of living destroyed.....if i didnt have my govt work where you have to pass extensive background checks to work at drone bases,airforce bases,govt sites , army and marine bases and other govt buildings.......i'll take a successfull buisness man over a successfull crimminal any day ,even if i dont agree with everything he says.......

That's a double edged sword. The Republicans want to bust the unions which keep pay and benifits up and the Democrats are typically pro union. So you have to go with your particular situation I guess.

[Brent]

.............bengazi...........dead ex-seals .........thank you hillary..........

You don't go back into Republican history (GW/Chaney) so I guess that doesn't count? They all (politicians) have dead soldiers on their hands and to focus on four of them is ridiculous when there's been tens of thousands killed for money and power in the Middle East since Bush invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

[hookdfisherman]

.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9gB1tE3Avw





lol












































any of you losers swayed yet?






.