DFW's answer as to why there have been no catfish stockings Locally (LA/OC)

[georatm2011]

*this explains a few things, let me know what you guys think

My name is Brian Young. I am the coordinator for the California Department of Fish and Wildlife’s (Department), Fishing in the City Program (FIC), servicing Los Angeles and Orange counties, and alternately the rest of the South Coast Region (SCR) [Coastal counties from Santa Barbara to San Diego]. Thank you for your interest in the Department’s urban fish stocking efforts. I have been asked to better explain the Department’s channel catfish (catfish) stocking efforts, within SCR, as there has been much confusion over the matter in recent years.

In the interest of full disclosure, I may repeat some information that you have already been given, but it is important to understand how everything fits together. As you have already been informed the Department has, for many years, stocked catfish in many urban lakes within SCR. Though I cannot speak definitively about catfish stocking prior to August 2005, I can say with near absolute certainty that from August 2005 thru June 2013, up to 31 lakes within the counties of Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego were stocked once a month during the catfish delivery season (annually from May – November). What most people do not know is that the Department does not have any warm water fish hatcheries from which to produce catfish, and therefore must purchase, on contract, all the catfish that it stocks within the state. In SCR the responsibility for scheduling and paying for these plants rests with FIC, and at one point we were spending over $300,000 a year for catfish purchases.

This would not have been possible if it were not for grant funds the Department receives from the Federal Government through the Sport Fish Restoration Act (SFRA). As FIC is 100 percent grant funded through SFRA, no license money is used to purchase catfish for delivery to the urban lakes in SCR. What this also means is, like all grants, the granter gets to have a say in how the funds are spent. Since FIC is, at its heart, an Aquatic Education program (AE), and the underlying grant is for AE purposes, the grant administrators, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) has the right to review, and if they feel it is necessary, require FIC to make changes to the program.

At the end of 2012/2013 fiscal year the Service notified the Department that AE grant funds used for stocking fish must have an identifiable education component; and further cited that the current stocking policy used by FIC statewide did not fully meet this requirement. It is for this reason that catfish planting has been scaled back to its current levels.

As for your suggestion about finding additional funding, SCR FIC continues to look for alternate funding sources, but locating an extra $200,000 in annual funding is not a small task, and if we look at FIC statewide the number soars to more than $500,000 annually. FIC is also looking at updating education protocols to meet the Service’s requirements.

I hope this sheds some light on your questions and concerns. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me using the information below, or e-Mail me at

[mx4life]

Seems like a crock. So like...

kids that don't like school and want to go fish, and have no fish to go catch anymore. Because the funds for fish are being used for education that they don't care for..... Just go do drugs and join gangs. Easier then finding fish now a days.

Where's are license money really going? Lol.

[etucker1959]

*this explains a few things, let me know what you guys think

My name is Brian Young. I am the coordinator for the California Department of Fish and Wildlife’s (Department), Fishing in the City Program (FIC), servicing Los Angeles and Orange counties, and alternately the rest of the South Coast Region (SCR) [Coastal counties from Santa Barbara to San Diego]. Thank you for your interest in the Department’s urban fish stocking efforts. I have been asked to better explain the Department’s channel catfish (catfish) stocking efforts, within SCR, as there has been much confusion over the matter in recent years.

In the interest of full disclosure, I may repeat some information that you have already been given, but it is important to understand how everything fits together. As you have already been informed the Department has, for many years, stocked catfish in many urban lakes within SCR. Though I cannot speak definitively about catfish stocking prior to August 2005, I can say with near absolute certainty that from August 2005 thru June 2013, up to 31 lakes within the counties of Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego were stocked once a month during the catfish delivery season (annually from May – November). What most people do not know is that the Department does not have any warm water fish hatcheries from which to produce catfish, and therefore must purchase, on contract, all the catfish that it stocks within the state. In SCR the responsibility for scheduling and paying for these plants rests with FIC, and at one point we were spending over $300,000 a year for catfish purchases.

This would not have been possible if it were not for grant funds the Department receives from the Federal Government through the Sport Fish Restoration Act (SFRA). As FIC is 100 percent grant funded through SFRA, no license money is used to purchase catfish for delivery to the urban lakes in SCR. What this also means is, like all grants, the granter gets to have a say in how the funds are spent. Since FIC is, at its heart, an Aquatic Education program (AE), and the underlying grant is for AE purposes, the grant administrators, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) has the right to review, and if they feel it is necessary, require FIC to make changes to the program.

At the end of 2012/2013 fiscal year the Service notified the Department that AE grant funds used for stocking fish must have an identifiable education component; and further cited that the current stocking policy used by FIC statewide did not fully meet this requirement. It is for this reason that catfish planting has been scaled back to its current levels.

As for your suggestion about finding additional funding, SCR FIC continues to look for alternate funding sources, but locating an extra $200,000 in annual funding is not a small task, and if we look at FIC statewide the number soars to more than $500,000 annually. FIC is also looking at updating education protocols to meet the Service’s requirements.

I hope this sheds some light on your questions and concerns. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me using the information below, or e-Mail me at
What a bunch of Horse Manure!!!!!! The DFG has a budget of $400 million dollars a year and they can't find, allocate, or raise $500,000 for an urban Catfish program!!!!
As I said in many previous post, "THE DFG IS ONLY INTERESTED IN ENFORCEMENT!!!!" Not angler enhancement!!!!! They do do some scientific study's on things, but if there are no sportsmen left "WHO CARES!!!!!!!"

[etucker1959]

What a bunch of Horse Manure!!!!!! The DFG has a budget of $400 million dollars a year and they can't find, allocate, or raise $500,000 for an urban Catfish program!!!!
As I said in many previous post, "THE DFG IS ONLY INTERESTED IN ENFORCEMENT!!!!" Not angler enhancement!!!!! They do do some scientific study's on things, but if there are no sportsmen left "WHO CARES!!!!!!!" A side not, I calculated the program only cost less then $500,000 a year in previous posts I made on this subject, this guy confirmed my numbers were correct!!!!

[seal]

The Feds don't want us fishing or hunting, see current administration. They are attempting to either close down or re-purpose their fish hatcheries to threatened species rehabilitation, see Willow Beach, Mead hatchery etc...

They are getting away with it and will continue to do it because within their constituents is a large group of extreme environmentalists. Vote them back in and you will continue to see them head in this direction, taking funding away from anything that has to do with pro fishing or hunting. Combine the federal anti fishing and hunting stance with California's politics and you have a recipe for an extreme impact on this states fishing access and enhancements across the board.

Some have their head in the sand and cannot see this coming, too late it's already here.

[DarkShadow]

Remember back in the day, when conservation in conjunction with a lower population, would ensure that constant supplemental stockings didn't need to occur in our local city park lakes?

Heck, I used to fish Echo Park before the recurring stockings and the "Fishing in the City" program was started, and the lake seemed to have plenty of everything without the need of bi-monthly stocks by the DFG.

Fact of the matter is, when the stockings started, the fishery at Echo began going downhill in a hurry. Funny how it worked out.

[seal]

Remember back in the day, when conservation in conjunction with a lower population, would ensure that constant supplemental stockings didn't need to occur in our local city park lakes?

Heck, I used to fish Echo Park before the recurring stockings and the "Fishing in the City" program was started, and the lake seemed to have plenty of everything without the need of bi-monthly stocks by the DFG.

Fact of the matter is, when the stockings started, the fishery at Echo began going downhill in a hurry. Funny how it worked out.

Yes but has the number of individuals participating in fishing at Echo increased? Do you think that's a true statement? Those of us that like to fish for species other than stocked trout and catfish can certainly understand your point but I think the bigger picture is that thru not just funding loss that has affected planting but also almost a bigger impact now and in the future will be closed areas (MLPA's, closing portions of the Sierra's and other areas because of "endangered species" etc...).

I am not a political zombie and certainly see the problems on both sides of the fence from a political perspective but without a stronger more unified voice within the sporting community this crap is going to escalate and by the time we call them on it it will be too late!

[DEVOREFLYER]

The "Good Old Days" of fishing are over in this state. As a teen I could fish Lytle Creek, Bear Creek, Mill Creek and the upper Santa Ana river and get a limit in an hour or two and rarely see another fisherman much less an empty Corona or dirty diaper. Quality fish at Big Bear, Lake Gregory, Jenks lake, trophy Browns at Silverwood and Kokanee Salmon at Lake Arrowhead. Hell a 5 lb Large Mouth at Evans lake was not unusual and a 100 fish day fishing the Sierras was not unusual if you knew what you were doing. An easy limit of Dove before school started and another limit after school was out and home before dark. And don't even ask about all the Quail in the foothills and Band Tailed Pigeons in the mountains. Those days are gone in California and are never coming back never, it's all downhill from here.

[smokehound]

Yep. Catfish are raised by private hatcheries. the cities pay for the stocking of catfish.

The imperial catfish hatchery is generally the company that stocks the kitties here, they make rounds to Irvine and other pay lakes as well, to stock their bigger cats.


You can still catch the occasional silver cats in all our lakes.

[georgia_brown]

Yep. Catfish are raised by private hatcheries. the cities pay for the stocking of catfish.

The imperial catfish hatchery is generally the company that stocks the kitties here, they make rounds to Irvine and other pay lakes as well, to stock their bigger cats.


You can still catch the occasional silver cats in all our lakes.

So all these local ponds get stocked catfish? Tri Cities, Laguna Lake, etc? I just took back a catfish rod to walmart because I didn't think there was any catfish fishing unless you were rich and could afford to pay to get into Irvine Lake and SARL.

[etucker1959]

So all these local ponds get stocked catfish? Tri Cities, Laguna Lake, etc? I just took back a catfish rod to walmart because I didn't think there was any catfish fishing unless you were rich and could afford to pay to get into Irvine Lake and SARL.
The key to fishing the local lakes is to follow the kids Catfish derby's. There is still a couple of them coming up including the Grand daddy of them all. Trumpets please, "The Knabe catch" in La Mirada lake. This one was so good last year, that I fished and caught catfish every trip for 3 months straight. (I am the king of that lake so your success may vary) lol

[castle]

The county park lakes are a little cheaper than Irvine for the catfish. Try Yucaipa, it was last stocked for the Labor day holiday.

[smokehound]

also Dont forget that stocked catfish are capable of breeding, unlike trout!

I catch big kitties at various park lakes all the time, even in the dead of winter. They sure do love powerbait.

[etucker1959]

also Dont forget that stocked catfish are capable of breeding, unlike trout!

I catch big kitties at various park lakes all the time, even in the dead of winter. They sure do love powerbait.
Very true statement about the breeding!!! I still quite haven't figured out why certain ponds they will breed in and others they won't. Craig park in Brea is a small dirty little pond, but man do the catfish breed in that!!!!!

[FSHNLIC]

Spot on Seal


The Feds don't want us fishing or hunting, see current administration. They are attempting to either close down or re-purpose their fish hatcheries to threatened species rehabilitation, see Willow Beach, Mead hatchery etc...

They are getting away with it and will continue to do it because within their constituents is a large group of extreme environmentalists. Vote them back in and you will continue to see them head in this direction, taking funding away from anything that has to do with pro fishing or hunting. Combine the federal anti fishing and hunting stance with California's politics and you have a recipe for an extreme impact on this states fishing access and enhancements across the board.

Some have their head in the sand and cannot see this coming, too late it's already here.

[georatm2011]

If the Republican party wasn't so awful with their social issues message i might consider voting republican but as it stands I won't switch my party just for more fish and hunting.


The Feds don't want us fishing or hunting, see current administration. They are attempting to either close down or re-purpose their fish hatcheries to threatened species rehabilitation, see Willow Beach, Mead hatchery etc...

They are getting away with it and will continue to do it because within their constituents is a large group of extreme environmentalists. Vote them back in and you will continue to see them head in this direction, taking funding away from anything that has to do with pro fishing or hunting. Combine the federal anti fishing and hunting stance with California's politics and you have a recipe for an extreme impact on this states fishing access and enhancements across the board.

Some have their head in the sand and cannot see this coming, too late it's already here.

[Theos]

If the Republican party wasn't so awful with their social issues message i might consider voting republican but as it stands I won't switch my party just for more fish and hunting.

Ignore the messengers, vote on the issues, at some point political correctness has to end for the good of everyone.

[Theos]

The "Good Old Days" of fishing are over in this state. As a teen I could fish Lytle Creek, Bear Creek, Mill Creek and the upper Santa Ana river and get a limit in an hour or two and rarely see another fisherman much less an empty Corona or dirty diaper. Quality fish at Big Bear, Lake Gregory, Jenks lake, trophy Browns at Silverwood and Kokanee Salmon at Lake Arrowhead. Hell a 5 lb Large Mouth at Evans lake was not unusual and a 100 fish day fishing the Sierras was not unusual if you knew what you were doing. An easy limit of Dove before school started and another limit after school was out and home before dark. And don't even ask about all the Quail in the foothills and Band Tailed Pigeons in the mountains. Those days are gone in California and are never coming back never, it's all downhill from here.

You are most correct on all levels not just fishing and hunting.

[seal]

If the Republican party wasn't so awful with their social issues message i might consider voting republican but as it stands I won't switch my party just for more fish and hunting.

Republican or Democrat doesn't matter who's in charge if one party has complete control no good can come of it. This state is the extreme and best example of that concept.

[etucker1959]

Republican or Democrat doesn't matter who's in charge if one party has complete control no good can come of it. This state is the extreme and best example of that concept.
I could agree with your statement!!!! The problem is, "you can't have one party batxxxx crazy and refusing to compromise on most issues." Here in our state a number of years back, Governor Moonbeam needed some Republican votes for a budget. (this was before the super majority) So he asked them, "what do you want????" Their answer was, "they didn't know what they wanted!!" Maybe some Republicans in this state should take up the cause of the sportsman. If they were potty trained, "I'd consider voting for them!!!"

[smokehound]

There are big cats in Laguna lake. Lots of them too. Laguna is different than other park lakes.. in addition to bubblers, they also have water jets that produce a strong current- which channel catfish thrive in. While they can still breed in the other lakes without the jets, the current helps the eggs survive better, and the deep cover and abundant rockpiles give them more shelter to brood in. The bad part about laguna is they'll lock you into the park if you ignore them when they tell you it's closing time, and you'll have to hop the fence, or crawl through the hole in the fence.

[georatm2011]

Which are are the cats at, by the dam or near the big open back area? Thanks man

There are big cats in Laguna lake. Lots of them too. Laguna is different than other park lakes.. in addition to bubblers, they also have water jets that produce a strong current- which channel catfish thrive in. While they can still breed in the other lakes without the jets, the current helps the eggs survive better, and the deep cover and abundant rockpiles give them more shelter to brood in. The bad part about laguna is they'll lock you into the park if you ignore them when they tell you it's closing time, and you'll have to hop the fence, or crawl through the hole in the fence.

[etucker1959]

Which are are the cats at, by the dam or near the big open back area? Thanks man
I'll see if Smokehound cares to recommend any particular spots, actually there is quite a few that hold catfish. But I will say this, "you can't go wrong fishing shrimp on the bottom there." Also these things really turn on at night, unfortunately you don't get a whole lot of time to fish after the sun goes down before they kick you out!!!!

[smokehound]

I dont feel too comfortable sharing the best spots publicly PM me and I'll share.. large roving bands of poachers work that lake hard tossing out live bluegill, fortunately they don't understand the lake well at all.

[Nuoc Mam]

That lake isn't that big so it'll be pretty easy and quick to find where the hot spots are for the kitties. Agree with smokehound, bunch of poachers, used to fish there a lot for trout. 1 year had it dialed in for catching trout. Basically every cast resulted in a fish. Locals got mad and all but funny part was that everything was released and I even offered what I was using to them but they refused lol.

[etucker1959]

If you were interested in fishing right before dark and into the night. I'll give you my best spot in the lake. (just pm me!!!)