Well its Been Nice

[gogreeenz4]

I hope this article is wrong but looks like 4.15.2015 is the doom day for diamond......

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/mar/17/outdoors-diamond-valley-lake-hemet/

[DEVOREFLYER]

Well that sucks!!!!!!! So much for those stored precast concrete ramps they were going to add to keep it open.........

The question begs "How low will it go"???????

[Pete Marino]

yep we've seen this coming since September.. Im glad they were able to stay open as long as they did.. At least we get to fish it for another several weeks.. Hopefully it wont be closed too long...

Pete

[gogreeenz4]

bummed the NBW on the 19th isn't going to fly..... Hopefully we can fish it soon and it takes some pressure of the fish and have that wide open bite it once had! trying to find positives here hahahaha

Brady

[HuskerRod]

Ohhh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...and I was gonna buy a 6-month yearly pass this weekend. Dang itttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gogreeenz4]

that's my other question will they dig into there shallow pockets and refund the annual pass holders??

[Webfoot]

Sorry to hear of this. Does anyone know if launching of kayaks will be allowed after 4/15?

[gogreeenz4]

read the link..... but yes they should be allowed

[Riverdale]

Was there yesterday and they said 3 feet of launch ramp left, seemed like more but oh well,and they would be doing a draw down this week,sooo... I think April 15 is wishful thinking.The plastics bite was on, a lot of fish swimming in 4-8 feet of water, the reaction bite not so good yet!Cheers!

[chompot]

I will launch from the dirt if they would let me.

In regards to the annual pass holders... I would assume that is a risk you take and might be in the contract, but not sure because I don't have one.

[HawgZWylde]

Well that sucks!!!!!!! So much for those stored precast concrete ramps they were going to add to keep it open.........

The question begs "How low will it go"???????

The water has to go down before they can add them, if they add them. That's what they told me months ago. They aren't doing it to keep it open, it's so they can reopen it sooner once the water comes in.

NOAA said Cali has about a year's worth of water left. If the drought persists past that, DVL won't be the only dry lake in the area. Ready to go to South Carolina yet Dev?

[cutbait]

We need a catastrophic failure in water storage to

A. WAKE UP CALIFORNIA ON WATER USAGE

B. CALIfORNIA TO REALIZE IT'S CURRENT WATER STORAGE IS INSUFFICIENT

C. EQUALIZE THE POWER THE ENVIROS HAVE ON WATER CAPACITY AND IT'S USAGE..

(Assuming it ever does rain and snow again)


it's not what you want to hear but they are realities

[Cadillyak]

Open the lake to us sit on top yakkers.

[TroutOnly]

just like last time................

[Baja1ab]

Just when it was about to get poppin. I think the fish are in on it...

[Riverdale]

We need a catastrophic failure in water storage to

A. WAKE UP CALIFORNIA ON WATER USAGE

B. CALIfORNIA TO REALIZE IT'S CURRENT WATER STORAGE IS INSUFFICIENT

C. EQUALIZE THE POWER THE ENVIROS HAVE ON WATER CAPACITY AND IT'S USAGE..

(Assuming it ever does rain and snow again)


it's not what you want to hear but they are realities California farms use 80 percent of the water available,this state is a desert the farms need to move to a state or country that can support that type of activity,ya I know we are the worlds bread basket ,its time for someone else to be the bread basket,almonds,alfalfa and rice take the most water all three of those crops and can go else where.Jobs????Save nor cal and all cal fishing jobs 1st!!!!!!!

[Surfnsnowboard3]

California farms use 80 percent of the water available,this state is a desert the farms need to move to a state or country that can support that type of activity,ya I know we are the worlds bread basket ,its time for someone else to be the bread basket,almonds,alfalfa and rice take the most water all three of those crops and can go else where.Jobs????Save nor cal and all cal fishing jobs 1st!!!!!!!

Most idiotic statement I've read on here in a while.

[cutbait]

Most idiotic statement I've read on here in a while.

Agreed SNSB....

Nor cal jobs and all fishing are all vastly important to anyone else's.... among other faults in the arguement

[P.A.W.]

Since the drought is limited to just the southern half of the state I think we should reconsider spending 60 BILLION on high speed rail. For much less money we could revamp the whole water delivery system and recoup a bunch of the water being dumped back into the Pacific Ocean north of us..... and save the smelt in the process.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Interesting times a coming. Water rationing, higher fees and fines, neighbors snitching on violators. Agriculture industry crippled, agricultural workers, agricultural support companies and agricultural supported communities decimated. Recreation and tourist businesses and communities that depend on water sport visitors harmed. BLM and forest areas closed due to high fire hazard and just wait until the Santa Ana winds blow after a hot, dry summer. Hydroelectric generated electricity reduced and compounded by the closing of San Onofre. Wildlife intrusion into developed areas due to loss of water and forage. But the Smelt will be saved. Interesting times indeed.

[etucker1959]

I'm the KING of making idiotic statement, so let me make one. I read this last night, it takes 660 gallons of water to make hamburger from 1 cow!!!!!!

[shinbob]

I'm the KING of making idiotic statement, so let me make one. I read this last night, it takes 660 gallons of water to make hamburger from 1 cow!!!!!!

It also takes 30 gallons of water to make 1 glass of beer, and 63 gallons for 1 glass of wine.

I'll give up burgers when you all give up beer and wine!

[DEVOREFLYER]

I'm the KING of making idiotic statement, so let me make one. I read this last night, it takes 660 gallons of water to make hamburger from 1 cow!!!!!!

We already knew you were an idiot, your tellin' us nothing new. You can have your Tofu USDA Prime beef charred rare rules in my house (1 1/2" thick Tomahawk Ribeye or baseball cut Filet Mignon). If you have to eat hamburger you should try it made with 50/50 95% lean hamburger and Hot Italian Sausage. I grind my own and on a Pretzel Bacon Bagel bun or Onion roll it's the bomb.

[shinbob]

And it is a good point that agriculture takes up 70-80% of all water used in the state. Almonds alone use up 3.4 million acre-feet of water. And well over half of the almonds grown in CA is exported overseas.

To put that in perspective, the total water capacity of DVL, Castaic, Pyramid, Piru, Casitas, Cachuma, Silverood, and Perris combined is 2 million acre-feet of water.

In other words, the water used JUST for almonds that are EXPORTED is enough to fill all of the major Southern California reservoirs, with plenty left over.

[BassinPLS]

Since the drought is limited to just the southern half of the state I think we should reconsider spending 60 BILLION on high speed rail. For much less money we could revamp the whole water delivery system and recoup a bunch of the water being dumped back into the Pacific Ocean north of us..... and save the smelt in the process.

P.A.W.,

This is an excellent suggestion and a very logical solution: Solves water shortage problems during drought periods, puts people back to work, provides for long term stability for the farmers, fisherman and people in general. Unfortunately "Governor Moonbeam" has taken too much money from the High Speed Rail proponents and has been smoking too much of his wacky weed to turn back now.

I think a voter initiative is called for to overturn his folly, (the High Speed Rail, which it won't be), and provide a common sense solution for the situation!

:Dead Horse:

[HawgZWylde]

I'm the KING of making idiotic statement, so let me make one. I read this last night, it takes 660 gallons of water to make hamburger from 1 cow!!!!!!

Lol, yup. I'm convinced you are a direct relative of Joe Biden...

[cutbait]

And it is a good point that agriculture takes up 70-80% of all water used in the state. Almonds alone use up 3.4 million acre-feet of water. And well over half of the almonds grown in CA is exported overseas.

To put that in perspective, the total water capacity of DVL, Castaic, Pyramid, Piru, Casitas, Cachuma, Silverood, and Perris combined is 2 million acre-feet of water.

In other words, the water used JUST for almonds that are EXPORTED is enough to fill all of the major Southern California reservoirs, with plenty left over.

One small problem your leaving out of your theory is DVL, Castaic, etc doesn't contribute billion dollars of economy to the state and its buainess like Almonds do

Kind of hard thing to argue logic of that just to be able to fish

[shinbob]

One small problem your leaving out of your theory is DVL, Castaic, etc doesn't contribute billion dollars of economy to the state and its buainess like Almonds do

Kind of hard thing to argue logic of that just to be able to fish

No doubt, almonds bring in billions of dollars to the state, $11 billiion or so each year, and certainly is worth far more than recreational freshwater fishing. But there has to be a balance between the two. We can't sell out ALL our resources just for profit. And $11 billion is still only 0.5% of the total California industrial output.

And not picking on just almonds, I know that's an important crop to folks in the central valley, and lots of mom and pop farms grow them to supplement their income. It bothers me that people seem to focus on lawns and pools (I don't have either) as the problem, and lose sight of the perspective of overall water use in the state. Residential outdoor water usage is about 5%, vs. agriculture water use at over 70%. We could let all lawns go brown, and all pools go empty, and it would barely make a dent in the water situation.

http://i.imgur.com/zOswICX.jpg

[DarkShadow]

No doubt, almonds bring in billions of dollars to the state, $11 billiion or so each year, and certainly is worth far more than recreational freshwater fishing. But there has to be a balance between the two. We can't sell out ALL our resources just for profit. And $11 billion is still only 0.5% of the total California industrial output.

And not picking on just almonds, I know that's an important crop to folks in the central valley, and lots of mom and pop farms grow them to supplement their income. It bothers me that people seem to focus on lawns and pools (I don't have either) as the problem, and lose sight of the perspective of overall water use in the state. Residential outdoor water usage is about 5%, vs. agriculture water use at over 70%. We could let all lawns go brown, and all pools go empty, and it would barely make a dent in the water situation.

http://i.imgur.com/zOswICX.jpg

Excellent info, and well thought out arguments.

[cutbait]

Cal ag is 44.7 billion... largest by far.

as I stated earlier it's all of Californias problem.

The population of So cal is growing exponentially and I personally feel there should be a moritorium on fallow land turned into ag.


As I said earlier.. water storage is the problem. We need more reservoirs to capture the rain and snow in wet years period!.

From booming city growth to Ag usage to conservation.. the water is there and flowing into the ocean we just need to capture more of it and be more responsibe on its usage




Facts are facts

[Riverdale]

Since the drought is limited to just the southern half of the state I think we should reconsider spending 60 BILLION on high speed rail. For much less money we could revamp the whole water delivery system and recoup a bunch of the water being dumped back into the Pacific Ocean north of us..... and save the smelt in the process. The whole state is in a drought,follow the water trail backup the state,where does it come from? The Delta has been turned into a mud puddle.That high speed rail will never be built they don't have the money never will.Yes my statement may have been idiotic but facts tell the truth about farming.Ca population has doubled in the last 40 years as well,our gov has done nothing to protect this resource,yes I was born here and I have the right to make all the idiotic statements about My state that I feel.

[Catch 'n' Release]

All that Bad Karma coming back on the boaters who have no respect for shore fishermen. Now you're all back to bank pounding

[etucker1959]

Most idiotic statement I've read on here in a while.
Care to give your arguments??????

[DarkShadow]

Now you're all back to bank pounding

Or slumming it and renting the tin cans they call rentals.

Oh how I miss dragging a 50 pound deep cycle 400 feet down the launch ramp.

At least the DVL Marina might start making some money charging people for scratched up props again.

[P.A.W.]

The whole state is in a drought,follow the water trail backup the state,where does it come from? The Delta has been turned into a mud puddle.That high speed rail will never be built they don't have the money never will.Yes my statement may have been idiotic but facts tell the truth about farming.Ca population has doubled in the last 40 years as well,our gov has done nothing to protect this resource,yes I was born here and I have the right to make all the idiotic statements about My state that I feel.

Well, according to the San Jose Mercury News you are wrong. http://www.mercurynews.com/drought/ci_27494057/california-drought-divide-emerging-northern-california-getting-much
They did have a shortfall last season but are well past normal this year. Management is the key here. Storage, delivery, all of it helps. Ending farming may work but I'm not too fond of the unintended results it may have.

[Stormcrow]

All that Bad Karma coming back on the boaters who have no respect for shore fishermen. Now you're all back to bank pounding


You Mad Bro?

[HawgZWylde]

You Mad Bro?

Cracks me up the envy some harbor. Looks like The next NBW is a no go bro. I got your text last night when my son text me. I must've been in a dead zone when you text me on Sunday. I saw on Monday that things weren't looking good. They had pulled about a foot and a half of water out in a week. This sucks big time...

[HuskerRod]

Or slumming it and renting the tin cans they call rentals.

Oh how I miss dragging a 50 pound deep cycle 400 feet down the launch ramp.

At least the DVL Marina might start making some money charging people for scratched up props again.

Just for old times sake I was looking at rental prices today. Looks they have expanded the selection to three different bass boat outifits to choose from and two different outfitted pontoon boats. Prices range from $80 to $260 dollars a day. The cheapest bass boat has a 20 horse motor, no electronics, no trolling motor, and no livewell. So not much different then the deluxe boats back in the day that had all those features, but they didn't work. Plus shadow, maybe you and Miguel can get a discounted rate on that boat with the ripped open front end you cruised by in from a few years back or the one the guys took off road 20 feet up onto the bank.

[Riverdale]

Well, according to the San Jose Mercury News you are wrong. http://www.mercurynews.com/drought/ci_27494057/california-drought-divide-emerging-northern-california-getting-much
They did have a shortfall last season but are well past normal this year. Management is the key here. Storage, delivery, all of it helps. Ending farming may work but I'm not too fond of the unintended results it may have. Shasta and Oroville are up from last years levels but not back to norm.Snow pack is the real indicator here .Farming will never leave, just adjustments to some crops may help.Where did all that water go???Is it coming down the canal to our lakes??Does not seem to be.Our water does come from there,the water we get as rain fall does not fill our lakes that much.Management ,storage and delivery will have to change I agree.Cheers!

[Surfnsnowboard3]

California farms use 80 percent of the water available,this state is a desert the farms need to move to a state or country that can support that type of activity,ya I know we are the worlds bread basket ,its time for someone else to be the bread basket,almonds,alfalfa and rice take the most water all three of those crops and can go else where.Jobs????Save nor cal and all cal fishing jobs 1st!!!!!!!


Care to give your arguments??????

When somebody says "...the farms need to move to a state or country...." in their argument of water usage, THAT'S IDIOTIC. Hell he even admitted it was an idiotic statement on his next post.

[DEVOREFLYER]

When the large storms with flooding in Nor Cal happened several months ago the Sacramento river was running 8 feet above normal. Do ya think they could have run the big pumps full bore and sent some water south? Hell no as the pumps were down for maintenance. All that water went out the delta into the ocean but the Smelt were happy...... Jack wads....

[HuskerRod]

Well I guess we know now when the big one hits the cockroaches......and now the smelt will be happy.

I think I just need to pack a duffle bag, hookup my boat, and get the hell out of here. Anybody looking for a nice house in the shadows of the west dam at DVL? Ill even throw in a DVL year pass with a solid 11 months still left on it..heheheheehe

[etucker1959]

When somebody says "...the farms need to move to a state or country...." in their argument of water usage, THAT'S IDIOTIC. Hell he even admitted it was an idiotic statement on his next post.
If not the farms, what about the cattle????? I hunted for over 30 years on private cattle ranches all through the Rocky Mountain states. You know what they all had in common?????? Was all the CRP land they all had!!!! The land the government pays them NOT TO USE!!!!!! If they already have the land and water, well you guy's can connect the dots!!!!!

[Stormcrow]

Cracks me up the envy some harbor. Looks like The next NBW is a no go bro. I got your text last night when my son text me. I must've been in a dead zone when you text me on Sunday. I saw on Monday that things weren't looking good. They had pulled about a foot and a half of water out in a week. This sucks big time...

no worries brother...call me when you get a free minute

[DEVOREFLYER]

If not the farms, what about the cattle?????

Here is how I like my Cattle etucker aka Frenchy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiX-fHUrUD0

[seal]

Somebody brought up snow pack, it's not good.

NORTH
Data For: 16-Mar-2015
Number of Stations Reporting 31
Average snow water equivalent 3.0"
Percent of April 1 Average 10%
Percent of normal for this date 10%

CENTRAL
Data For: 16-Mar-2015
Number of Stations Reporting 44
Average snow water equivalent 4.2"
Percent of April 1 Average 14%
Percent of normal for this date 14%

SOUTH
Data For: 16-Mar-2015
Number of Stations Reporting 29
Average snow water equivalent 4.1"
Percent of April 1 Average 15%
Percent of normal for this date 16%

STATEWIDE SUMMARY
Data For: 16-Mar-2015
Number of Stations Reporting 104
Average snow water equivalent 3.8"
Percent of April 1 Average 13%
Percent of normal for this date 13%

[DarkShadow]

Somebody brought up snow pack, it's not good.

Somebody also brought up buiilding large impoundments to capture the water.

If you don't have any water to fill such impoundments, does building these large impoundments make any fiscal sense, especially in the desert that we live in?

i.e, "You want us to build lakes in the desert?"

[HawgZWylde]

Somebody also brought up buiilding large impoundments to capture the water.

If you don't have any water to fill such impoundments, does building these large impoundments make any fiscal sense, especially in the desert that we live in?

i.e, "You want us to build lakes in the desert?"


Should have had them already. They could/would have possibly lessened the drought's impact. But would it not be prudent to build and fill them for when the next drought hits?

[cutbait]

Somebody also brought up buiilding large impoundments to capture the water.

If you don't have any water to fill such impoundments, does building these large impoundments make any fiscal sense, especially in the desert that we live in?

i.e, "You want us to build lakes in the desert?"

Ever heard of "inline reservoirs" reservoira one after another for the ones who don't understand the reservoirs will not be built "in the desert"

[cutbait]

Should have had them already. They could/would have possibly lessened the drought's impact. But would it not be prudent to build and fill them for when the next drought hits?

Too much logic and sense Hawgz..... thus is California

[DarkShadow]

Ever heard of "inline reservoirs" reservoira one after another for the ones who don't understand the reservoirs will not be built "in the desert"

Kinda like the system we have today?

I mean, I get your points, because having 10 reservoirs that are 10% filled is better than 5 reservoirs that are 10% filled. But at what cost?

Screw conserving water, let's just build more reservoirs to hold the water that we eventually misappropriate. That is certainly a solution....

Why not just build a few hundred desalination plants! Maybe a few thousand. That way we have water whenever we want it.

[etucker1959]

Too much logic and sense Hawgz..... thus is California
Not really, even though this is Commifornia all the governors (even the Demorats) other then the Browns really were a bunch of tight wads!!!

[etucker1959]

Kinda like the system we have today?

I mean, I get your points, because having 10 reservoirs that are 10% filled is better than 5 reservoirs that are 10% filled. But at what cost?

Screw conserving water, let's just build more reservoirs to hold the water that we eventually misappropriate. That is certainly a solution....

Why not just build a few hundred desalination plants! Maybe a few thousand. That way we have water whenever we want it.

When the Mega drought hits!!!! (this is nothing) At least that what some scientist say!!!! We will be forced to build them regardless of the cost. Try floating that idea NOW and watch the tight wads of both party's immediately start belly aching about the cost.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Ever heard of "inline reservoirs" reservoira one after another for the ones who don't understand the reservoirs will not be built "in the desert"

Like these lakes in South Carolina that are all man made. The three daisy chained together in the upper left corner of the state have over 1300 miles of shoreline. Most of those lakes are over 50 miles long.

http://i.imgur.com/ydv9VAH.jpg

[chompot]

Like these lakes in South Carolina that are all man made. The three daisy chained together in the upper left corner of the state have over 1300 miles of shoreline. Most of those lakes are over 50 miles long.


Yup.... Well that state does not have granola eaters trying to save the Eastern Mississippi Meadow Fly.

[JAG107]

When you think about it, it's really stupid that with all of our coastline, we only have one desal plant in the works in Carlsbad (that I know of). Meanwhile, we get to watch the news tell us in one story about how we're going to be out of water in a year, then in the next story, show footage of our elected officials breaking ground with golden shovels on a super train that will go from, where, Fresno to Modesto?

[HawgZWylde]

When you think about it, it's really stupid that with all of our coastline, we only have one desal plant in the works in Carlsbad (that I know of). Meanwhile, we get to watch the news tell us in one story about how we're going to be out of water in a year, then in the next story, show footage of our elected officials breaking ground with golden shovels on a super train that will go from, where, Fresno to Modesto?

Cambria is building one...
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/invoking-californias-drought-oceanside-town-quickly-builds-long-desired-desalination-plant-287408551.html

[cutbait]

Kinda like the system we have today?

I mean, I get your points, because having 10 reservoirs that are 10% filled is better than 5 reservoirs that are 10% filled. But at what cost?

Screw conserving water, let's just build more reservoirs to hold the water that we eventually misappropriate. That is certainly a solution....

Why not just build a few hundred desalination plants! Maybe a few thousand. That way we have water whenever we want it.

Don't throw me on the anti conservation side. far too much waste. Your trying to put words in my mouth dispute me saying in precious posts we need to be more responsible

[HawgZWylde]

When the Mega drought hits!!!! (this is nothing) At least that what some scientist say!!!! We will be forced to build them regardless of the cost. Try floating that idea NOW and watch the tight wads of both party's immediately start belly aching about the cost.

Pssst, it's the eco's tucky. Do you have any idea how much it costs for decades of environmental impact studies and all the sure to come lawsuits filed by environmentalist groups?

[etucker1959]

Pssst, it's the eco's tucky. Do you have any idea how much it costs for decades of environmental impact studies and all the sure to come lawsuits filed by environmentalist groups?
Psst we are talking about water!!!!! If it get's bad enough, think WAR TIME Action!!!! Do you think in WW2 they waded thru all the BS before they did anything. Nope they just went ahead and did it!!!!!!

[Stormcrow]

They wont be building De-sal plants all over the coastline anytime soon....Its terribly energy INefficient. It goes against everything that California purports itself to be in this liberal whack-job state. The answer is to put money into new and existing infrastructure to channel, move, and capture what rain we do get. With global climate changing, California may actually see MORE rain, especially during the monsoon summers that we now seem to get and LESS snowpack. That rain water needs to be captured and stored efficiently.

There is your common sense answer....

[shinbob]

They wont be building De-sal plants all over the coastline anytime soon....Its terribly energy INefficient. It goes against everything that California purports itself to be in this liberal whack-job state. The answer is to put money into new and existing infrastructure to channel, move, and capture what rain we do get. With global climate changing, California may actually see MORE rain, especially during the monsoon summers that we now seem to get and LESS snowpack. That rain water needs to be captured and stored efficiently.

There is your common sense answer....

Desalination is terribly expensive. The Carlsbad plant produces water at a cost of nearly $3000 per acre-foot. To give a sense of scale to that, Castaic holds 287,000 acre-feet, so to fill Castaic with desalinated water (purely an example, no one would do this of course) would cost nearly a billion dollars. Billion!

However, in this drought the price of water is climbing rapidly, as much as $2000 per acre foot. So we may not be that far off from making it worthwhile.

More reservoirs might help. As it turns out, more often than not we actually get below average rainfall. This is due to the fact that the average level is driven by years in which we get far more than usual rainfall, shown in the spikes below:

http://i.imgur.com/Ddu6m6d.jpg

If we could capture all the water in those spikes and store it for later, then that might help out when we are below the line. But building reservoirs is not cheap or easy, for various reasons.

[Stormcrow]

Desalination is terribly expensive. The Carlsbad plant produces water at a cost of nearly $3000 per acre-foot. To give a sense of scale to that, Castaic holds 287,000 acre-feet, so to fill Castaic with desalinated water (purely an example, no one would do this of course) would cost nearly a billion dollars. Billion!

However, in this drought the price of water is climbing rapidly, as much as $2000 per acre foot. So we may not be that far off from making it worthwhile.

More reservoirs might help. As it turns out, more often than not we actually get below average rainfall. This is due to the fact that the average level is driven by years in which we get far more than usual rainfall, shown in the spikes below:

http://i.imgur.com/Ddu6m6d.jpg

If we could capture all the water in those spikes and store it for later, then that might help out when we are below the line. But building reservoirs is not cheap or easy, for various reasons.

Yes thats exactly what I am saying...invest money in infrastructure to capture that rain. The type of rain we get in California is slowly changing over time; More warm monsoonal rain compared to cold snow storms. It would benefit us to capture and channel that rain to existing and new reservoirs.

This state wastes run-off because we have historically looked to the snowpack in the sierras to provide water during the summer months. That is all changing now. Its a shame that well over 10 inches of rain falls in northern cali and that water is wasted running out of the Delta. While, at the same time, the Colorado River actually runs DRY and never makes it to the ocean.

[Dsrt Tortise]

Once again we boaters of Southern California are FUC#ED over again.That's about all I have to say. No sugar excuses or bullshit dialogue to add on to the conversation which is all excuses to begin with.

Dsrt Tortise :Twisted::mad::Angry::Explode::Argument:

[etucker1959]

They wont be building De-sal plants all over the coastline anytime soon....Its terribly energy INefficient. It goes against everything that California purports itself to be in this liberal whack-job state. The answer is to put money into new and existing infrastructure to channel, move, and capture what rain we do get. With global climate changing, California may actually see MORE rain, especially during the monsoon summers that we now seem to get and LESS snowpack. That rain water needs to be captured and stored efficiently.

There is your common sense answer....

WHAT YOU ARE ADMITTING THAT GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL!!!!!!!! Alert the press, "HELL JUST FROZE OVER!!!!!!" lol

[etucker1959]

Desalination is terribly expensive. The Carlsbad plant produces water at a cost of nearly $3000 per acre-foot. To give a sense of scale to that, Castaic holds 287,000 acre-feet, so to fill Castaic with desalinated water (purely an example, no one would do this of course) would cost nearly a billion dollars. Billion!

However, in this drought the price of water is climbing rapidly, as much as $2000 per acre foot. So we may not be that far off from making it worthwhile.

More reservoirs might help. As it turns out, more often than not we actually get below average rainfall. This is due to the fact that the average level is driven by years in which we get far more than usual rainfall, shown in the spikes below:

http://i.imgur.com/Ddu6m6d.jpg

If we could capture all the water in those spikes and store it for later, then that might help out when we are below the line. But building reservoirs is not cheap or easy, for various reasons.
People should stop thinking like a bunch of "TIGHT WADS!!!!!!!" If that's what it cost to desalinate water and we don't have another good alternative, "PAY IT!!!!!" We all pay "WHATEVER" the price of Gasoline is, so water might just end up being the same way too. We are lucky as DS said, we do have a last resort option here in CA, "THE PACIFIC OCEAN!!!!" I don't ever see that running out, if anything the sea levels will be rising with the melting Glaciers of Antarctica!!!!

[DarkShadow]

So no desalination plants?

I thought everyone was rooting for desalination plants?

Fine, then let's build more reservoirs. That'll fix it.

Or, we can change our geography and get the same rainfall that South Carolina gets. That'll fix it too!

[DEVOREFLYER]

Read and weep.

http://www.newsweek.com/why-californians-are-starved-water-314867?piano_d=1

[BentRod]

They wont be building De-sal plants all over the coastline anytime soon....Its terribly energy INefficient. It goes against everything that California purports itself to be in this liberal whack-job state. The answer is to put money into new and existing infrastructure to channel, move, and capture what rain we do get. With global climate changing, California may actually see MORE rain, especially during the monsoon summers that we now seem to get and LESS snowpack. That rain water needs to be captured and stored efficiently.

There is your common sense answer.... We should have been capturing water years ago!

[DarkShadow]

Read and weep.

http://www.newsweek.com/why-californians-are-starved-water-314867?piano_d=1

Devo,

While I appreciate the links, I appreciate more your analysis of the actual article.

What do you say to what was written?

Because when I look at the last line, "they make it a desert, and call it liberal," it questions my new found elucidation that perhaps building reservoirs in a desert may not be as intelligent as one thinks.

[etucker1959]

Read and weep.

http://www.newsweek.com/why-californians-are-starved-water-314867?piano_d=1
You couldn't find an article a little less bias!!!!! If you only listen to the teachings of Jim Jones, (metaphorically speaking) how do you think anybody but another follower will pay any attention to what you say!!!! We are talking about WATER, not what side of the politically fence to pass blame on.

[etucker1959]

We should have been capturing water years ago!
Try to sell that!!!!! People are cheap by nature, they only pony up when they have too!!!!! Not when the water was flowing fairly consistent in the past!!!

[DEVOREFLYER]

You couldn't find an article a little less bias!!!!! If you only listen to the teachings of Jim Jones, (metaphorically speaking) how do you think anybody but another follower will pay any attention to what you say!!!! We are talking about WATER, not what side of the politically fence to pass blame on.

In a court of law two terms come to mind, “Joint and several liability” and “Contributory negligence.”

Joint and several liability is when more than one party to the action has liability for their action(s). Contributory negligence is the amount each party contributed to the action and thus determines their percentage of monetary damages to pay from the total judgement against them.

Both political parties over the year are unquestionably guilty of “Joint and several liability” in a host of things including our water problem when action to prevent or minimize it was ignored or stopped. I am sure if all the facts were laid out to an impartial jury they would find overwhelmingly that while both parties are guilty one party has far more liability than the other. Sadly politicians are immune from being sued for being incompetent or stupid.

[cutbait]

So? How about cutbaits plan of pumping the Mississippi into the Colorado and gravity down and pumping back up to socal?



You heard it here first... invasives, quagga or not

[DEVOREFLYER]

So? How about cutbaits plan of pumping the Mississippi into the Colorado and gravity down and pumping back up to socal?



You heard it here first... invasives, quagga or not

Have them send some of those crazy jumpin' Carp also, that would be fun to watch with the lake lice duckin' and thumpin'.....lol

[etucker1959]

In a court of law two terms come to mind, “Joint and several liability” and “Contributory negligence.”

Joint and several liability is when more than one party to the action has liability for their action(s). Contributory negligence is the amount each party contributed to the action and thus determines their percentage of monetary damages to pay from the total judgement against them.

Both political parties over the year are unquestionably guilty of “Joint and several liability” in a host of things including our water problem when action to prevent or minimize it was ignored or stopped. I am sure if all the facts were laid out to an impartial jury they would find overwhelmingly that while both parties are guilty one party has far more liability than the other. Sadly politicians are immune from being sued for being incompetent or stupid.
Actually I couldn't agree more!!!!

[cutbait]

Have them send some of those crazy jumpin' Carp also, that would be fun to watch with the lake lice duckin' and thumpin'.....lol

Ok those guys with 70 mph basscats... I mean ba$$ boats

[DEVOREFLYER]

Those Carp would never catch me, Mud Hens however don't have a chance.

[Stormcrow]

WHAT YOU ARE ADMITTING THAT GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL!!!!!!!! Alert the press, "HELL JUST FROZE OVER!!!!!!" lol

HAHAHA are you new??? I am a biologist, of course I believe global climate change is real!! My historical contention has always been that the fossil record has shown us that the Earth has slowly cycled through warmer and cooler periods over the course of its existence. I do not subscribe to the liberal wack-job version of global warming.

[DarkShadow]

So? How about cutbaits plan of pumping the Mississippi into the Colorado and gravity down and pumping back up to socal?

You heard it here first... invasives, quagga or not

Our water districts would have to buy the water from there. If it's cheap, I'm all for it. Is there a current cross connection between the Mississippi and the Colorado? Or will we have to shell out more money to build a duct of sorts for the connection?

But, doesn't the northwest traditionally get a lot of rain? How about focusing our efforts there since it's closer, and doesn't have Da Quagga yet? Let's Owens Valley them and take their water!

[Riverdale]

People should stop thinking like a bunch of "TIGHT WADS!!!!!!!" If that's what it cost to desalinate water and we don't have another good alternative, "PAY IT!!!!!" We all pay "WHATEVER" the price of Gasoline is, so water might just end up being the same way too. We are lucky as DS said, we do have a last resort option here in CA, "THE PACIFIC OCEAN!!!!" I don't ever see that running out, if anything the sea levels will be rising with the melting Glaciers of Antarctica!!!!
Celsium 134 !!!!The disaster at Fukajima is not over yet,They can only add water to the mess that is flowing into the pacific.Radiation levels will increase until something is done there.So Desal and De radiation plants as well LOL

[DarkShadow]

Celsium 134 !!!!The disaster at Fukajima is not over yet,They can only add water to the mess that is flowing into the pacific.Radiation levels will increase until something is done there.So Desal and De radiation plants as well LOL

Then we'll install anti radiation mechanisms to the desalination plants!

(I like this method of solving the problem, you don't have to even think about costs before blurting out answers)

[Brent]

HAHAHA are you new??? I am a biologist, of course I believe global climate change is real!! My historical contention has always been that the fossil record has shown us that the Earth has slowly cycled through warmer and cooler periods over the course of its existence. I do not subscribe to the liberal wack-job version of global warming.

Somewhere between the sky is falling and nothing's wrong lies the truth. Bottom line. All politicians on both the nut job right and wacko left are full of crap and could care less about any of us.

[SurfCityUSA]

Get water from the Columbia!

Desal is expensive and would only produce enough for cities and nobody wants it on there beach. I know, I live in HB!!!
Building more reservoirs is great but you have to hope the rain returns
Conservation is a joke since 80% of the water is for agriculture.

I like the Mississippi idea but I think the Columbia is better.

Divert or pump the water through eastern Oregon, then down through Nevada on the east side of the Sierras and make Death Valley into a huge fresh water lake. OK I know a Death Valley lake may not be best but think of the agriculture that could be done in Oregon and Nevada. Good competition for the San Joaquin.

There are a fair number of articles on this if you Google
http://www.capitalpress.com/article/20140306/ARTICLE/140309927

[HawgZWylde]

HAHAHA are you new??? I am a biologist, of course I believe global climate change is real!! My historical contention has always been that the fossil record has shown us that the Earth has slowly cycled through warmer and cooler periods over the course of its existence. I do not subscribe to the liberal wack-job version of global warming.


I do not subscribe to the liberal wack-job version of global warming.

Neither does this guy;
http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2015/03/20/why-i-am-climate-change-skeptic

[DEVOREFLYER]

Visit this site and see just how wacko the Eco Nazis are. Restore Hetch Hechy and San Francisco is out of water and power, ya it would serve them right, ya can't fix stupid...

http://www.hetchhetchy.org/

[HawgZWylde]

Visit this site and see just how wacko the Eco Nazis are. Restore Hetch Hechy and San Francisco is out of water and power, ya it would serve them right, ya can't fix stupid...

http://www.hetchhetchy.org/

Same goes for Lake Powell;

http://www.ajelp.com/comments/defending-environmentalists-punching-bag-lake-powell/

[chompot]

Same goes for Lake Powell;

http://www.ajelp.com/comments/defending-environmentalists-punching-bag-lake-powell/

Gosh they are idiots. I hope none of them ever use water at their homes. Seeing them, they usually do look pretty dirty.

[DrePSP]

from the columbia? Oregonians HATE californians! They'll tell you to go pound sand, which we will have plenty of soon.
Have you been to Oregon and fished on the columbia, especially on the eastern side?
They don't have water to waste with this years poor snow pack and low rain fall.
Someone mentioned shasta, you drive by there lately? it is LOW my friend. From what it used to be.
No one mentions personal responsibility on here when it comes to less water usage. Car washes, green lawns, shorter showers or turn the water off while you lather up. What ever, it will never happen. Californians think they deserve everything and live in La La land.

[JAG107]

I seriously doubt some shorter showers and browner lawns are going to have much of an impact when we have sprinklers running WHILE ITS RAINING along all of the freeways, we're dumping 80% of our water to raise McBurgers and almonds, and we have to keep the golf courses green above all else! It's a joke. Have you ever visited a construction site, where BY LAW they are required to drive around in a water truck and dump thousands of gallons of water on the dirt just to keep the dust down? If the government was really concerned about water conservation, they would start at the top and lead by example: Do we REALLY have to eat almonds and drink wine to survive? Do we HAVE to play golf? Do we really need water parks and fountains in front of city hall to entertain us? When it gets really serious, hopefully these types of things will be impacted before household rationing becomes a mandate.

[DrePSP]

But rich folk need to play golf and don't care, sprinklers on while raining or most of the water running down driveways anoys the hell out of me.
I'm just saying we need to be part of the solution as well. Not just blame everyone.

[DarkShadow]

...we're dumping 80% of our water to raise McBurgers and almonds

I think somebody else mentioned that 80% goes to agriculture, and when someone else mentioned perhaps not eating so many cows or perhaps not growing so many crops that require a disproportionate amount of water for the revenue they bring, they got ridiculed.

In any case, here's a good read:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/02/american-aqueduct-the-great-california-water-saga/284009/

[Riverdale]

Great read Shadow,I learned to fish on the delta,an amazing place,even caught Salmon from the bank at that Clifton Court Fore bay ,Really shows how intertwined our water is!
Thanks for posting it!!

[shinbob]

I think somebody else mentioned that 80% goes to agriculture, and when someone else mentioned perhaps not eating so many cows or perhaps not growing so many crops that require a disproportionate amount of water for the revenue they bring, they got ridiculed.


I wouldn't mind it as much if all that water was used for agriculture for all of our needs -- we require food after all, and California grows the best crops in the nation. I do take issue, though, with how much water is basically being exported overseas via crops. Literally hundreds of billions of gallons of water are sent to China, UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc...

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26124989

The United Arab Emirates realized that it is a tremendous waste of water to grow alfalfa in the desert, and does not allow farmers to do so. So where do they get their alfalfa? The California desert, i.e. the Imperial Valley. They pour 5 feet of water per year onto their land to grow crops in the freaking 110 degree heat, and more than 50% of the alfalfa is exported.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140123-colorado-river-water-alfalfa-hay-farming-export-asia/

Have you seen aerial photos of the Imperial Valley? Check out google maps sometime. This is just one section, the right half is how the land should look, and the left half shows how it does look after all that water has been used:

http://i.imgur.com/AxzH77I.jpg

Of course, some people will shout about all the JOBS! that are being generated, but really, jobs for whom? Think about it. Are you going to harvest crops when it's 105+ degrees out there, all day, for minimum wage or less, and no benefits or job security? I'd rather work at Starbucks. Well, okay, maybe not Starbucks...