Bullet Ban

[hookdfisherman]

.


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-to-ban-bullets-by-executive-action-threatens-top-selling-ar-15-rifle/article/2560750?utm_campaign=Fox%20News&utm_source=foxnews.com&utm_medium=feed


.

[cutbait]

No big deal. Other bullet types out there


Having said that, give em an inch and they take a mile.

It's just one more step they've made to a gun ban

[DEVOREFLYER]

Back door attempt to ban guns. First the EPA with the lead ban on hunting and fishing that was beaten back except California passed a lead ammo ban. What's the water temp Frogs???

XM855 does not meet the legal definition of AP ammo:

"Denise Brown of BATFE’s Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, has published a text titled “ATF FRAMEWORK FOR DETERMINING WHETHER CERTAIN PROJECTILES ARE “PRIMARILY INTENDED FOR SPORTING PURPOSES” WITHIN THE MEANING OF 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (C)”:

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...g_purposes.pdf

This text calls for comments on how to prohibit civilian ownership and transfer of U.S. Army specification M855 5.56x45mm cartridges. This is the current U.S. Army service round for M16 rifles and M4 carbines, and a popular civilian round for a wide variety of rifles as well.

This BATFE text is a brazen attempt to to circumvent the posting and commenting requirements of the Administrative Procedure Act of 1946. The Administrative Procedure Act of 1946 requires posting of most new Federal regulations in the Federal Register followed by a comment period before implementation. The regulation dictating BATFE’s M855 ban were not posted, nor was there a comment period. BATFE is referencing the ban of M855 cartridges as a foregone conclusion in Denise Brown’s text.

As you will see in the letter presented below, this proposed ban will spill over to other 5.56x45mm and .223 Remington cartridges very quickly. You can bet your last round of M193 specification 5.56mm ammunition that BATFE will come back almost immediately with a prohibition on civilian transfer of M193 specification 5.56x45mm ammunition – using the 25% bullet jacket weight criteria of 18 USC 921 (a) (17) (B) (ii) – if they prevail in this M855 fight. The bullet jacket of the M193 projectile weighs 17.5 grains nominal, well above the 13.75 grain threshold which will be established for 55 grain projectiles if BATFE’s M855 prohibition prevails.

It is highly unlikely that ammunition manufacturers will be able to produce 55 grain bulleted 5.56x45mm ammunition with 13.75 grain maximum weight bullet jackets which will function safely at 60 k chamber pressures in 7 inch twist barrels. So all AR owners are at risk here, and possibly .223 Remington varmint shooters as well if .223 Remington ammunition with 13.75 grain maximum weight bullet jackets doesn’t function safely at 60 k chamber pressures in 12 inch twist barrels.
We do have a legal case here if we can flood BATFE with comments on Denise Brown’s devious sophistry. Here is the comment letter our reader John D. sent to BATFE:

M855 Cartridge Prohibition Beyond BATFE Statutory Authority

BATFE does not have any statutory authority to prohibit civilian distribution or possession of U.S. Army M855 specification ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (B), regardless of any ‘sporting purpose’ determination. Nor does BATFE have any statutory authority to prohibit civilian distribution or possession of NATO STANAG 4172 specification cartridges under 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (B), again regardless of any ‘sporting purpose’ determination. The statutory language supposedly authorizing a prohibition, cited by Denise Brown on Page 3 of the BATFE text titled “ATF FRAMEWORK FOR DETERMINING WHETHER CERTAIN PROJECTILES ARE “PRIMARILY INTENDED FOR SPORTING PURPOSES” WITHIN THE MEANING OF 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (C)”, reads:

(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means –

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

I have highlighted the words ‘constructed entirely’ for a reason which will become clear.

The projectile specified in M855 specification ammunition, U.S. Army TACOM ARDEC Drawing 9342869, has a combined steel and lead metal core. 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (B) (i) applies only to projectile cores:

….constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium….

The core of the M855 projectile is not constructed entirely of steel, nor is the steel in the core of the M855 projectile combined with “tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium”. Rather, the steel in the projectile core of TACOM ARDEC Drawing 9342869 bullet is at the front of a lead metal component. These two components together, both within the projectile jacket, constitute the M855 projectile core. You can confirm this combination by reviewing U.S. Army TACOM ARDEC Drawing 9349656, which establishes the engineering requirements for the M855 projectile core.

Please note the English language definition of the adverb ‘entirely’, as taken from Merriam-Webster:

Definition of ENTIRELY

1 : to the full or entire extent : completely <I agree entirely> <you are entirely welcome>
2 : to the exclusion of others : solely <entirely by my own efforts>

By any correct reading of the English language, the core of the M855 projectile is not constructed entirely of steel, or a combination of steel with any of the other metals specified in 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (B) (i).

18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (B) (ii) applies only to projectiles larger than .22 caliber, designed and intended for a handgun, so the jacket weight percentage of the .22 caliber M855 projectile is not legally relevant to a determination of its status as ‘armor piercing ammunition’. Also MIL-C-63989C (AR), the U.S. Army specification covering M855 cartridges, does not mention handguns. Further, the gas port pressure requirements established in Section 3.10.3 of MIL-C-63989C (AR) constructively exclude the ‘AR Type handguns’ cited in Denise Brown’s text as an application for M855 cartridges.

Before an 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (C)’ sporting purposes’ exemption can be considered, BATFE must establish that M855 projectiles are indeed subject to armored piercing ammunition regulation under 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (B). BATFE has not made this case, nor can BATFE make this case without abusing the clear statutory language.

Please withdraw Denise Brown’s “ATF FRAMEWORK FOR DETERMINING WHETHER CERTAIN PROJECTILES ARE “PRIMARILY INTENDED FOR SPORTING PURPOSES” WITHIN THE MEANING OF 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) (C)” and terminate any further efforts to prohibit civilian possession or distribution of M855 projectiles or cartridges. Please extend all of these comments to cover any and all cartridges conforming to NATO STANAG 4172, which are functionally and constructively identical to U.S. Army M855 cartridges."
__________________
"A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require, that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military supplies." - George Washington, 1790

[ZugBug1313]

Is anyone really surprised. The American idiots elected him not once but twice. What was the first thing he did in office was go on the world apology tour saying we were sorry for being Americans. Then if he cannot get what he wants, he passes an executive action. A prime example is what he did with the illegal aliens invading our county. Now we have probably 30 million new citizens that will suckle up to the trough for all kinds of freebees. If you thought Social Security had problems wait till this group ponies up to the trough. Think it won't happen, it's discrimination if you do. I'm not going to get into the sacking of our Embassy and the raping of our ambassador and dragging him through the street. All the while blaming it on a stupid video. So I say reap the seeds you have sown to all you morons that elected him. Or better yet to all you that don't even vote. So go ahead and ban the ammo and whatever else.

[fish hunt]

I would rather be shot with ball ammo than a hunting round any day

[hookdfisherman]

.




I would rather be shot with ball ammo than a hunting round any day



yeah but who'll have the ball ammo and who'll have the high powered rounds?

Oops nevermind.


.

[cutbait]

"Ball ammo"




My high school nickname

[DEVOREFLYER]

"Ball ammo"




My high school nickname

Don't tell LQ she will want in on the action.......:Shocked:

[Stinkbait]

Since the ATF isn't and doesn't have to go by its own definition of armor piercing, the issue is what's stopping them from doing the same, calling lead armor piercing since most rifle ammo will penetrate most police low level body armor.

[cutbait]

Look at the brightside fellas... Atleast we still have some freedoms left.

Imagine what our kids and grandkids are going to be dealing with as these progressives keep chipping away

[old pudd fisher]

Look at the brightside fellas... Atleast we still have some freedoms left.

Imagine what our kids and grandkids are going to be dealing with as these progressives keep chipping away

Yeah and their kids and grandkids, can you even Imagine what the world be like even a hundred years from now.

[cutbait]

Chinese will have invaded and bred a stronger race with our females by then

[DEVOREFLYER]

Imagine what our kids and grandkids are going to be dealing with as these progressives keep chipping away

And they would be correct in blaming us for letting it happen......how much hotter does the water got to get Frogs?????

[cutbait]

And they would be correct in blaming us for letting it happen......how much hotter does the water got to get Frogs?????

Americans don't fight for these convictions anymore. They've been programmed already.


Tyranny and stories of it don't inspire us anymore. Instead TMZ and Bruce Jenner on the iPad at Starbucks on the free wifi draw our attention.

I know what your saying but unless it's an all out gun ban, there will be no revolution

[Lady Quagga]

From the NRA-ILA

Stop ATF's Ammo Ban: Urge Your U.S. Representative to Sign Congressional Letter to ATF on Proposed Ammo Ban

As NRA has been reporting since the night the news broke (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150213/batfe-to-ban-common-ar-15-ammo), the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) is moving to infringe upon the rights of law-abiding gun owners with a drastic reinterpretation of a nearly 30-year-old law regulating so-called “armor piercing” ammunition. So draconian is BATFE’s new “Framework” that it would prohibit the manufacturing, importation, and sale of M855 ball ammunition, one of the most popular cartridges for the most popular rifle in America, the AR-15. Not coincidentally, the AR-15 is among the firearms the Obama Administration has unsuccessfully sought to outlaw. If they can’t ban the pie, so the thinking apparently goes, they might at least get the apples.

In an effort to thwart BATFE's attempted action, NRA has worked with U.S. Representative Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.), Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, to draft a letter to BATFE expressing the lawmakers' opposition to the proposed Framework.

According to the letter, “The idea that Congress intended [the ‘armor piercing’ ammunition law] to ban one of the preeminent rifle cartridges in use by Americans for legitimate purposes is preposterous.” It goes on to state that the law “should be construed in accordance with the American tradition of lawful firearms ownership, as protected by the Second Amendment.” This includes due consideration of “the many legitimate uses Americans make of their firearms including target practice, hunting, organized and casual competition, training and skills development, and instructional activities.“ The letter concludes with several pointed questions for the B. Todd Jones, BATFE’s director, including why the agency bypassed the Administrative Procedures Act in proposing such a radical change to its prior interpretation and enforcement of the law.

NRA will also be submitting its own detailed comments to BATFE in opposition to the ban and is continuing to work with Members of Congress on legislation that will put a stop to this abuse.

In the meantime, gun owners and other affected members of the public must act now to help ensure BATFE does not get away with this attempt to deprive Americans of ammunition for their favorite rifle and to squeeze ammunition markets between converging bans on both lead and non-lead ammunition. BATFE is accepting comments on their proposed ban and will consider all comments received on or before March 16, 2015.

Please be sure to submit your respectful comments in opposition to the ban. For more detailed information on the proposed ban and how you can submit your comments to BATFE, please click this link (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150218/your-action-urgently-needed-to-prevent-batfe-from-banning-common-rifle-ammunition).

Finally, please contact your U.S. Representative and urge him or her to sign Rep. Goodlatte's letter and to oppose BATFE's proposed "armor piercing" ammunition Framework. To contact them by phone, call the Congressional Switchboard at (202) 224-3121 or CLICK HERE TO WRITE YOUR LAWMAKERS (https://www.nraila.org/take-action/write-your-lawmakers/ask-your-lawmakers-sign-the-letter-to-the-batfe/).

[DEVOREFLYER]

Your wasting your time writing the cake was baked last year.
The ATF already put this in regulations last year without public comment. It is already regulation and has been since 2014. So they are done and won't change anything so writing them is pointless. Congress can and should spank them for this. that's the arrow I am putting all my wood behind. You go ahead and write the ATF and they'll ignore you. Waste your time. I won't waste mine.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761

[HawgZWylde]

Your wasting your time writing the cake was baked last year.
The ATF already put this in regulations last year without public comment. It is already regulation and has been since 2014. So they are done and won't change anything so writing them is pointless. Congress can and should spank them for this. that's the arrow I am putting all my wood behind. You go ahead and write the ATF and they'll ignore you. Waste your time. I won't waste mine.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761


You go ahead and write the ATF and they'll ignore you.

Par for the course for the federal government these days. Our founders warned us about this very thing happening...

[Lady Quagga]

Your wasting your time writing the cake was baked last year.
The ATF already put this in regulations last year without public comment. It is already regulation and has been since 2014. So they are done and won't change anything so writing them is pointless. Congress can and should spank them for this. that's the arrow I am putting all my wood behind. You go ahead and write the ATF and they'll ignore you. Waste your time. I won't waste mine.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761

The framework is not finalized, and in spite of that idiotic article, a ban on M855 ammunition has not yet been implemented and does not exist.

When you disseminate crap like this, you do a disservice to all responsible and law-abiding gun owners.

[fishinone]

http://thehill.com/regulation/pending-regs/235216-atf-shelves-proposed-bullet-ban

They heard and ducked!

[Lady Quagga]

From the AP wire:

Feds Abandon Plan to Ban Popular Rifle Ammo
WASHINGTON — Mar 10, 2015, 3:07 PM ET
By ALICIA A. CALDWELL Associated Press

Amid an onslaught of criticism, the Obama administration has dropped plans to ban a popular type of rifle ammunition that can pierce a police officer's protective vest if fired from a handgun, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Tuesday.

More than 80,000 people have commented on the proposal to ban certain types of 5.56 mm, or .223 caliber, ammunition since the agency announced its proposal last month. An ATF spokeswoman, Ginger Colbrun, said the vast majority of comments were critical of the proposal.

Objections also came from 291 members of Congress — majorities of both the House and Senate.

The ATF had proposed banning some types of ammunition used in the popular AR-15-style rifles. The rule change would have affected only "M855 green tip" or "SS109" rounds with certain types of metal core projectiles.

In a letter to ATF Director B. Todd Jones last month, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., objected to the plan. On Tuesday, he applauded the reversal, saying he was "pleased that the Obama administration has abandoned its attack on the Second Amendment."

Armor-piercing handgun ammunition has been banned since 1986 as a way to protect police officers under the federal Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act. The rifle bullets considered under the ban were long thought to be considered exempt because they were used for "sporting purposes," such as target shooting.

Colbrun said ATF proposed ending the exemption in part because of the advent of AR-style pistols that can fire the rounds. Such guns did not exist when the armor-piercing ammunition law was passed.

She said the legislation also did not define "sporting purposes," which has led to more than 30 requests for exemptions in recent years.

Without a new framework to determine which armor-piercing ammunition is strictly for sporting purposes, Colbrun said, those exemption requests cannot be processed.