California Taking Steps To Ban Common Fishing Weights And Gear

[fishinglakes.com]

California Taking Steps To Ban Common Fishing Weights And Gear
SPECIAL TO WESTERN OUTDOOR NEWS
Published: Sep 17, 2014

SACRAMENTO — The California Department of Toxic Substance Control (DTSC) released its draft Priority Product Work Plan, a program of the California Green Chemistry Initiative last Friday, targeting all common fishing weights and gear with lead, zinc and copper.

Given the plan profound impact on the fishing community, the California Sportfishing League has launched a major online petition to have fishing gear delisted from the draft Work Plan.

The draft work plan is the first release of Governor Jerry Brown’s Green Chemistry Initiative. The DTSC plan identifies seven product types, including fishing weights and gear that contain metals such as lead, zinc and copper. The new regulations could ban the manufacturing, distribution and sale of popular fishing gear.

“Existing state regulations have already contributed to a significant decline in fishing participation,” said David Dickerson, president of the California Sportfishing League “Additional regulations, will not only encourage fishing gear manufactures to flee California to business friendly states, it will have a substantial impact on California’s economy and jobs, when fishing is no longer an accessible and affordable source of recreation for millions of anglers.”

Concerns associated with banning common fishing gear are shared by regulatory and industry experts.

“The proposed regulations will increase the likelihood that manufactures, sellers and retailers of fishing weights and gear will be subjected to costly and onerous regulations, and potential fines,” said Maureen Gorsen, an environmental attorney at Alston & Bird, LLP and former director of DTSC. “The result could be a wide range of enforcement options requiring restrictions or bans on sale, product reformulation, additional environmental impact studies, development of disposal programs or funding for fundamental research and development. The bottom line is that the cost of manufacturing fishing gear will increase significantly and these costs will be passed on to consumers.”

The Virginia-based national organization American Sportfishing Association, (ASA) which has analyzed product bans in the past, concluded that non-lead fishing tackle products require significant and costly changes to the industry, alternatives may not be available and most do not perform as well. Depending on the alternative metal and current prevailing raw material costs, the cost of fishing gear could increase 10 to 20 fold. ASA also notes that in 2010, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agencies denied petitions to ban lead weights, stating that lead fishing gear did not pose unreasonable risk of injury to health or the environment.

Given that DTSC just released its priority list this past Friday and will close public comments a mere four weeks later, CSL believes the public has not had sufficient time to fully analyze the proposed regulations on manufactures, retailers and the broader fishing community. DTSC has announced workshops for Sept. 25 in Sacramento, and Sept. 29 in Cypress, before closing the public comment period on Oct. 13.

“Given that fishing does not impose unreasonable impacts on habitat and wildlife, it is remarkable that fishing gear was included in DTSC’s first draft and with little public notice,” said Dickerson. “As a result, the recreational fishing community, and the industries dependent on its growth, have only weeks to respond to an initiative that will have a profound and costly impact on California tourism and jobs, and possibly, deny millions of Californians and tourists access to recreational fishing. Given the lack of analysis and sufficient time for public input, fishing gear regulations should be delisted from the State’s plan.”

In response to the proposed regulations, CSL has launch a major online petition drive to have fishing gear delisted from DTSC’s draft Priority Product Work Plan. Anglers, manufacturers, retailers and small business owners can join the coalition at www.sportfishingconservation.org or by Facebook.

[Vinh]

Thanks for the heads up. Maybe they should ban the people littering and contaminating our waterways. I admit lead isn't perfect but in comparsion to the trash and chemicals being dumped by inconsiderate people is at least 100000 timesfold compared to the lost weight and sinkers in the water

[inthroughtheocean]

Thanks for the heads up. Maybe they should ban the people littering and contaminating our waterways. I admit lead isn't perfect but in comparsion to the trash and chemicals being dumped by inconsiderate people is at least 100000 timesfold compared to the lost weight and sinkers in the water

Littering etc is illegal......

I think I'm ok with this ban.

[Egster]

This feels like adding insult to injury. It's not like we're loosing those weights and hooks on purpose, damn it.

[HawgZWylde]

Why do I get the feeling that this will somehow affect ammunition as well? And Fishing Lakes, just wait and see what the EPA has in it's pipeline for everything water.

This state is a political joke...

[HawgZWylde]

Littering etc is illegal......

I think I'm ok with this ban.


You're ok with this ban??? Why?

[goodguy]

Why do I get the feeling that this will somehow affect ammunition as well? And Fishing Lakes, just wait and see what the EPA has in it's pipeline for everything water.

This state is a political joke...

You're behind the ball. This has already happened...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/11/california-bans-lead-from-hunting-ammunition/2969497/

California is first state to ban lead in hunting ammo
Michael Winter, USA TODAY 9:20 p.m. EDT October 11, 2013Less-toxic bullets and shot will be required by July 2019 in bid to protect wildlife, the environment and hunters' health.
By July 2019, California hunters will be required to use lead-free ammunition. In a move to protect wildlife and the environment, California on Friday became the first state to ban lead in hunting ammunition.

The measure, signed into law by Gov. Jerry Brown, phases out lead bullets and shot by July 2019, with regulations due by July 2015.

"Lead poses a danger to wildlife. This danger has been known for a long time," Brown wrote in a signing message, noting that a leading conservation wrote about lead poisoning in 1984. The federal government banned lead ammunition from waterfowl hunting in 1991.

The measure expands an earlier ban on lead hunting ammunition in California condor habitat. The new law covers all wildlife, including "game mammals, game birds, nongame birds and nongame mammals" such as coyotes.

"The risks to California's incredibly diverse wildlife are many," Brown wrote. "We must manage our state's wildlife for the use and enjoyment of all Californians. It is time to begin this transition and provide hunters with ammunition that will allow them to continue the conservation heritage of California."

Brown noted changes to the legislation that "better protect the hunting community," including authorizing the state's Fish & Wildlife director to suspend the ban if the federal government outlaws nonlead ammunition because it can pierce armor.

Supporters also said the ban would protect the health of hunters and their families.

"Switching to nontoxic lead ammunition will save the lives of eagles, condors and thousands of other birds every year – and, importantly, will keep hunters and their families from being exposed to toxic lead," the Center for Biological Diversity said in a statement.

But the organization representing state game wardens had urged Brown to veto the lead ban.

"California Game Wardens are on the front line enforcing the ban on lead ammunition for most hunting in condor range. But there is insufficient data to justify such a drastic action across the entire state," the association's leadership wrote in a letter to the governor.

The bill was one of 11 gun-regulation measures the Democratic governor signed.

But Brown vetoed seven other firearms bills introduced in response to the Connecticut school massacre last December. The most controversial sought to ban the manufacture, sale and importation of semiautomatic combat-style rifles with detachable magazines.

"I don't believe that this bill's blanket ban on semiautomatic rifles would reduce criminal activity or enhance public safety enough to warrant this infringement on gun owners' rights," Brown wrote in veto message. He said the bill applied to "low-capacity rifles that are commonly used for hunting, firearms training and marksmanship practice, as well as some historical and collectible firearms."

The measure would have also required current owners to register their weapons and would have prohibited them from selling or transferring them.

Noting that gun violence had killed more than 1,100 Californians since the the Sandy Hook Elementary School mass shooting, Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg, a Democrat representing Sacramento, said he sponsored "because I believe aggressive action is precisely what's needed to reduce the carnage in our communities, and to counter the equally aggressive action by the gun industry which is intent on exploiting loopholes in our existing ban on assault weapons."

Brown also rejected legislation to allow Oakland to draft stricter gun regulations and to let San Francisco and San Mateo County supervisors ban gun shows.

[Vinh]

We have been using lead weights for decades without a problem. Secondly a lot of the reservoirs where the water is stored as drinking water does not ban using lead weights but it does ban littering and people jumping into the water. Why? Because the lead has a minuscule impact in a body of water unless its puddle.. Either way the cities have filters to filter out lead here is one example. http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/disease/lead.html. Another thing to consider is why does the DFG have warning on consumtion of fish with mercury and pcbs but not lead.

Here is another article by the EPA. It said lead poisoning usually comes faulty pipes. It does not cite the drinking water coming from whatever source e.g Lake Cachuma.http://water.epa.gov/drink/info/lead/basicinformation.cfm.

Here is the water quality results from Lake Cachuma . I don't see lead in there but the other heavy metals are there

http://www.usbr.gov/mp/nepa/documentShow.cfm?Doc_ID=5618

[inthroughtheocean]

You're ok with this ban??? Why?

Why not? It won't effect me/ I'm not going to be the one loosing money from it. I see it as only effecting fishing product companies (which is a HUGE industry). To me it sounds like its basically gonna force the companies to change the types of materials they use in their products (to more environmentally sound products). Because if they don't change they will loose a ton of money and business. I think its naive to think we're not going to be able to have certain weights and lures anymore. It's a business. They need to make money. They need to have their product sold. During the 70's when lead was outlawed in gasoline did it stop us from getting gas?

[goodguy]

The price difference between lead vs. alternative materials is pretty decent. Check out lead free ammo vs. lead ammo. If you want to pay almost double $ for your weights then fine. I think it BS!

[DarkShadow]

That's interesting. Yellowstone National Park has banned all lead items from their waterways. I had to make sure my lead based nymphs were made out of Tungsten.

That state must be a political joke as well.

[Vinh]

That's interesting. Yellowstone National Park has banned all lead items from their waterways. I had to make sure my lead based nymphs were made out of Tungsten.

That state must be a political joke as well.

Where are your sources. Just because you say its true doesn't mean its true unless there is proof. If it is true remember there is a difference between a state park and federal"national" park. I am guessing the ban came to effect when your friend Obambii came into office

[DarkShadow]

Where are your sources. Just because you say its true doesn't mean its true unless there is proof.

http://home.nps.gov/applications/release/Detail.cfm?ID=855

You dumb, or acting dumb?

Shouldn't you be out looking for Latinos?


And Yellowstone National Park has had restrictions on lead fishing tackle for years to protect native species and their habitats.

So no, it wasn't enacted when Obama came into office.

Now go run along back to the kids table and let the grown ups have a discussion.

[Vinh]

The article is dated n 2009 nice try. Shouldn't you be looking for your manlove lady q

[Lady Quagga]

The article is dated n 2009 nice try. Shouldn't you be looking for your manlove lady q

Did your dads have any children that lived?

You asked for sources/proof that Yellowstone had banned lead use, and you were provided with exactly that. So the point to your retort (that the NPS release was from 2009) is what exactly?

You know DS, I think Vinh's problem is that he's been sucking on his fishing weights a little too long. It could explain his sensitivity to this issue......not to mention his inability to communicate intelligently.

[HawgZWylde]

It isn't just weights that will be banned, it's everything made of lead i.e. all types of jigs, spinnerbaits, chatterbaits, swimbaits with lead balancing weights in them, weighted hooks with belly weights, punchbaits, suspending crankbaits, lead weight strips for cranks and jerkbaits, downrigger weights(imagine how much those will cost if made of tungsten) umbrella rigs, Alabama rigs, leadcore line and on and on. The costs of manufacturing, supplying and buying would go up exponentially. Some, maybe a bunch will pull out of the Cali market due to the higher costs of materials and tooling. This is a very bad bill and if it passes is going to cost us dearly like everything else in this liberal controlled effed up state...

[HawgZWylde]

Did your dads have any children that lived?

You asked for sources/proof that Yellowstone had banned lead use, and you were provided with exactly that. So the point to your retort (that the NPS release was from 2009) is what exactly?

You know DS, I think Vinh's problem is that he's been sucking on his fishing weights a little too long. It could explain his sensitivity to this issue......not to mention his inability to communicate intelligently.

Hey slimebrain, he pointed out that the ban took place under the Obozo regime and he was correct. STFW, Yellowstone NATIONAL park is a federal controlled entity and has nothing to do with state law so your little cheerleader DS was wrong.

Your abuse of other posters here is proof you are a psycho-path and a cyber stalker too boot.

And yes DS, Cali is one politically F'd up state unlike Wyoming, Montana and Idaho...

[inthroughtheocean]

In case people aren't aware, Ca isn't the first state to outlaw lead. Other states include Vermont, New Hampshire, New York, Massachusetts, Washington, Maine, and Connecticut. Not to mention lead use is banned in Great Britain, Denmark, and national parks in Canada.

http://www.pca.state.mn.us/index.php/living-green/living-green-citizen/household-hazardous-waste/nontoxic-tackle-lets-get-the-lead-out.html
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Fishing/get_the_lead_out.htm
http://www.vtfishandwildlife.com/library/factsheets/fishing/Get_the_lead_out/Lead_Sinker_Law_Poster.pdf
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7908.html
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/bills_126th/billtexts/SP026801.asp

[HawgZWylde]

In case people aren't aware, Ca isn't the first state to outlaw lead. Other states include Vermont, New Hampshire, New York, Massachusetts, Washington, Maine, and Connecticut. Not to mention lead use is banned in Great Britain, Denmark, and national parks in Canada.

http://www.pca.state.mn.us/index.php/living-green/living-green-citizen/household-hazardous-waste/nontoxic-tackle-lets-get-the-lead-out.html
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Fishing/get_the_lead_out.htm
http://www.vtfishandwildlife.com/library/factsheets/fishing/Get_the_lead_out/Lead_Sinker_Law_Poster.pdf
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7908.html
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/bills_126th/billtexts/SP026801.asp

And so what? Many studies have proven that lead tackle causes no harm so why add yet more expense to an already financially overburdened populace? And geez, funny how it just so happens that all the states you listed are "controlled and ruled by leftist lunatics". And your attitude in your last post where you state "it doesn't affect me so I don't care", is classic me me me and screw everyone else, real nice...

[gwurzel]

When this happened in the UK, all the tackle prices shot up - big. Used to be able to buy a range of lead split shot for around the 3 pound mark - that went up to 5 pound (approx $7.50 using 1.5 as the exchange rate) - at the same time, all the other tackle took a big rise in prices as the manufacturers tried to recoup their reconfiguring costs from everyone/anyone buying their gear. Quite frankly, it sucked big time.

Wurz

[HawgZWylde]

When this happened in the UK, all the tackle prices shot up - big. Used to be able to buy a range of lead split shot for around the 3 pound mark - that went up to 5 pound (approx $7.50 using 1.5 as the exchange rate) - at the same time, all the other tackle took a big rise in prices as the manufacturers tried to recoup their reconfiguring costs from everyone/anyone buying their gear. Quite frankly, it sucked big time.

Wurz

Sad how time and again the proof is in the pudding that these types of policies destroy the economy one segment at a time yet those who wish to impose these policies continue to do it time and again. Where is the common sense Wurz?

[inthroughtheocean]

"it doesn't affect me so I don't care", is classic me me me and screw everyone else, real nice...

And then I continued by saying how effects big tackle companies. I was referring to big companies. That was obvious.





P.S. My opinion isn't made up on this subject. Though usually it is the consumers that drive an industry and without business I think companies would be forced to decrease their prices and ways. Though I'm still trying to figure out how this would play out.

[gwurzel]

Don't think common sense comes into it to be honest Hawgz - from my perception, Special Interest Groups and Politicians seem to be to close to each other (its the same in the UK). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for protecting the environment for future generations to enjoy as much as we do - just some of the regulations forced down peoples throats irk me.

I dont mind paying for the privilege of my particular choice of sport, but I object vigorously to paying out of the nose for it (I'm cheap, sue me).

Wurz

[HawgZWylde]

Don't think common sense comes into it to be honest Hawgz - from my perception, Special Interest Groups and Politicians seem to be to close to each other (its the same in the UK). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for protecting the environment for future generations to enjoy as much as we do - just some of the regulations forced down peoples throats irk me.

I dont mind paying for the privilege of my particular choice of sport, but I object vigorously to paying out of the nose for it (I'm cheap, sue me).

Wurz

Indeed Wurz, that's the difference between good sound conservation policies and extreme environmentalism. And you are correct, special interests are what are guiding these unsound policies and not common sense...

[HawgZWylde]

And then I continued by saying how effects big tackle companies. I was referring to big companies. That was obvious.





P.S. My opinion isn't made up on this subject. Though usually it is the consumers that drive an industry and without business I think companies would be forced to decrease their prices and ways. Though I'm still trying to figure out how this would play out.

If it affects them negatively, it's affects us negatively as well. And many Americans, and especially Californians are already struggling just to make ends meet. Many companies in the industry are struggling and there's not much of a profit margin to take yet another hit by an overbearing government. Once again, unproven policy is being forced upon the people...

[seal]

This is only a continuation of an attempt by the greenies to eliminate or minimize fishing and hunting in this state. I am not normally a conspiracy kind of a guy but if you keep adding up all the changes that have already occurred with all the proposed changes it is obvious (land grabs, MLPA's etc...), at least to me, that they either don't give a damn about outdoorsmen or they hate us and are doing their best at getting rid of us.

It is beyond time that we fight back! Changes going on at my local lake are directly attributable to a manager that could care less about the fishermen and is focusing more on bringing in more of the summer type tourism (I know a little off topic but I'm currently real pissed about that situation and I believe it is related).

Yes I think we could survive this lead ban, I know it wouldn't stop me from purchasing gear, but what it potentially will impact is new fishermen (cost impacts, fishing use to be cheap), the less of us around the easier it will be to go forward with their master plan. One step at a time, if they just take little chunks out of us our power will be diminished and they will win!

[DarkShadow]

Hey slimebrain, he pointed out that the ban took place under the Obozo regime and he was correct. STFW, Yellowstone NATIONAL park is a federal controlled entity and has nothing to do with state law so your little cheerleader DS was wrong.

Hawgz,

My link was to show Cousin VinnyH that Yellowstone had outlawed the use of lead tackle. And perhaps you also missed the part that said


And Yellowstone National Park has had restrictions on lead fishing tackle for years to protect native species and their habitats.

Reading comprehension, much?

Doing a bit more sleuthing, it seems the ban for lead sinkers for the park came in 1995:


1995 - Fish and Wildlife Service bans use of lead sinkers in National Wildlife Refuges where there is reasonable likelihood of an adverse impact on trumpeter swans or common loons. These include Red Rock Lakes NWR in Lima, Montana, National Elk NWR in Jackson, Wyoming, Seney NWR in Seney, Michigan as well as Yellowstone National Park.

So unless "OBummer" was in office in 1995, both you and your apprentice are incorrect in your assertion that his administration had ANYTHING to do the ban of lead in Yellowstone. Then again, coming from someone who blames Obama for the paper cut they received earlier in the week, it doesn't surprise me that you suffer from selective reading and selective understanding.

AND, if you want to get political, because I'm sure you'll get your riled response ready to go once you see the year 1995 (and throw a Lewinski joke for good measure), perhaps we should begin talking about the piece of legislation that actually created the slippery slope, and that was the unprecedented FEDERAL ban on lead shot for waterfowl hunting in all 50 states, which as you know, was devised in 1986 with phased implementation through 1991. I wonder who was in office during that time?

[Vinh]

Where is your source and in 1995 Slick Willy Clinton gave you some and at the same time enacted the ban. Its a federal thing like I said. Your first source was misleading and we interpret it that way now where is your second source. Youre supposed to cite the quote. You big Dummy

[Vinh]

Hey Homie/Uncle Dark Shadow,

I did some sleuthing and look in 1995 it is banned from all national wildlife reserves. So it is not just Wyoming
http://www.loon.org/loon-lead-legislative-history.php



Hawgz,

My link was to show Cousin VinnyH that Yellowstone had outlawed the use of lead tackle. And perhaps you also missed the part that said



Reading comprehension, much?

Doing a bit more sleuthing, it seems the ban for lead sinkers for the park came in 1995:



So unless "OBummer" was in office in 1995, both you and your apprentice are incorrect in your assertion that his administration had ANYTHING to do the ban of lead in Yellowstone. Then again, coming from someone who blames Obama for the paper cut they received earlier in the week, it doesn't surprise me that you suffer from selective reading and selective understanding.

AND, if you want to get political, because I'm sure you'll get your riled response ready to go once you see the year 1995 (and throw a Lewinski joke for good measure), perhaps we should begin talking about the piece of legislation that actually created the slippery slope, and that was the unprecedented FEDERAL ban on lead shot for waterfowl hunting in all 50 states, which as you know, was devised in 1986 with phased implementation through 1991. I wonder who was in office during that time?

[HawgZWylde]

Where is your source and in 1995 Slick Willy Clinton gave you some and at the same time enacted the ban. Its a federal thing like I said. Your first source was misleading and we interpret it that way now where is your second source. Youre supposed to cite the quote. You big Dummy

That was my point as well Vinh. And now Cali policy is mimicking federal policy, or since Obozo said it, "the rest of the nation will follow California's lead". You beat me to it re:Blue dress Billy. But he also fails to consider the 1986 congressional majority. Congress makes the laws, unless you're Obozo of course, and a president can sign or veto. If there is enough of a one party majority in congress, said legislation(laws) can be veto proof. Don't ya just love they way leftists spin and resort to ridicule?

[Vinh]

Well said Hawg. When people turn to ridicule, insults, and etc that means they don't have anything else good to say and they will either try to change the subject or attack someone to discredit a person. I also believe its an attempt from Obambii to try to stimulate the economy buy making people blinge buy. For example ammo now especially for .22 and .223 is out of stock because of all the proposed gun bans and all. Now its lead sinkers. I wonder whats next.They are hypocrites they have the secret service armed with all the "illegal guns" to protect them but they want to ban the citizens from owning guns. I wonder why. I believe his buddy Leland Lee is being charged for gun running hypocrites.

[gwurzel]

As a bit of background information for the ban in the UK - lead split shot was banned due to duck hunters - bear with me - it was found that wild fowl were ingesting lead shot in large quantities while feeding. The reaction was to ban it completely, sadly, split shot was included in that ban. Research found that the amount of split shot versus the lead shot was minimal, but the ban remains. The increase in cost affected pretty much every single piece of equipment you bought - rods/reels/floats/flies/bait - everything. The cost increase wasn't minimal, it was around 60% - not an insignificant amount in any currency. There were other reasons as well, but the main reason was for the wild fowl.

Wurz

Seal, that would not surprise me in any way shape or form. A friend in the UK is an environmentalist - we had a discussion about the amount of fish in the sea - her response, all fishing (commercial and recreational) should be banned - talk about overkill.

[Lady Quagga]

Where is your source and in 1995 Slick Willy Clinton gave you some and at the same time enacted the ban. Its a federal thing like I said. Your first source was misleading and we interpret it that way now where is your second source. Youre supposed to cite the quote. You big Dummy

DarkShadow's first source contained no ambiguity. It stated right at the beginning: “Our goal is to eliminate the use of lead ammunition and lead fishing tackle in parks by the end of 2010”. It more than supported DS's statement that "Yellowstone National Park has banned all lead items from their waterways." That was the main point of his post. You deciding to go off on a tangent didn't change that point.

And now we see you asking for more sources? You couldn't recognize a source if it sat on your face and farted the Battle Hymn of the Republic.


Hey Homie/Uncle Dark Shadow,

I did some sleuthing and look in 1995 it is banned from all national wildlife reserves. So it is not just Wyoming
http://www.loon.org/loon-lead-legislative-history.php

You are referring to the banning of "the use of lead sinkers in National Wildlife Refuges where there is reasonable likelihood of an adverse impact on trumpeter swans or common loons". The same source you link to mentions "Lead shot banned in waterfowl hunting in all 50 states (enacted in 1986 for phased implementation by 1991)". So what's your point?


That was my point as well Vinh. And now Cali policy is mimicking federal policy, or since Obozo said it, "the rest of the nation will follow California's lead". You beat me to it re:Blue dress Billy. But he also fails to consider the 1986 congressional majority. Congress makes the laws, unless you're Obozo, and a president can sign or veto. If there is enough of a one party majority, said legislation(laws) can be veto proof. Don't ya just love they way leftists spin and resort to ridicule?

Ah, we see the Numbnuts Argument Flowchart™ in effect:

http://s22.postimg.org/pnilwvq3l/flowchart.png

Too bad you didn't do your research. Turns out, the program enacted in 1986 was to implement and enforce three separate federal acts which had previously banned lead shot. Whatever the motivation, the laws were already on the books, and it was the executive branch which implemented the program to enforce them.


Well said Hawg. When people turn to ridicule, insults, and etc that means they don't have anything else good to say and they will either try to change the subject or attack someone to discredit a person. I also believe its an attempt from Obambii to try to stimulate the economy buy making people blinge buy. For example ammo now especially for .22 and .223 is out of stock because of all the proposed gun bans and all. Now its lead sinkers. I wonder whats next.They are hypocrites they have the secret service armed with all the "illegal guns" to protect them but they want to ban the citizens from owning guns. I wonder why. I believe his buddy Leland Lee is being charged for gun running hypocrites.

I see you are taking a few pages from your white knight Hawggy's playbook. You turned to ridicule, insults and attacks, and then tried to change the subject. Only to accuse others of doing the same - classic Hawggy hypocrisy. Demanding (not to mention wantonly failing to comprehend) sources for claims, then turning around and making an outrageous statement regarding "binge buying" with no proof whatsoever to support it. Classic Hawggy hypocrisy. With all the deflection of your own in the above post, I'm amazed you didn't start accusing others of deflecting, a la classic Hawggy hypocrisy.

[HawgZWylde]

DarkShadow's first source contained no ambiguity. It stated right at the beginning: “Our goal is to eliminate the use of lead ammunition and lead fishing tackle in parks by the end of 2010,” It more than supported DS's statement that "Yellowstone National Park has banned all lead items from their waterways." That the main point of his post. You deciding to go off on a tangent didn't change that point.

And now we see you asking for more sources? You couldn't recognize a source if it sat on your face and farted the Battle Hymn of the Republic.



The ban you are referring to banning "the use of lead sinkers in National Wildlife Refuges where there is reasonable likelihood of an adverse impact on trumpeter swans or common loons". The same source you link to mentions "Lead shot banned in waterfowl hunting in all 50 states (enacted in 1986 for phased implementation by 1991)". So what's your point?



Ah, we see the Numbnuts Argument Flowchart™ in effect:

http://s22.postimg.org/pnilwvq3l/flowchart.png

Too bad you didn't do your research. Turns out, the program enacted in 1986 was to implement and enforce three separate federal acts which had previously banned lead shot. Whatever the motivation, the laws were already on the books, and it was the executive branch which implemented the program to enforce them.



I see you are taking a few pages from your white knight Hawggy's playbook. You turned to ridicule, insults and attacks, and then tried to change the subject. Classic Hawggy hypocrisy. Demanding (not to mention wantonly failing to comprehend) sources for claims, then turning around and making an outrageous statement regarding "binge buying" with no proof whatsoever to support it. Classic Hawggy hypocrisy. With all the deflection of your own in the above post, I'm amazed you didn't start accusing others of deflecting, a la classic Hawggy hypocrisy.

Lol, STFW. How does any of your redundant bee ess change the fact that this lead ban is bogus and will end up costing us a hell of a lot more money? That's my point and Vinh's point as well. The rest of your post is just more psycho-path driven drivel. Boy you love cyber stalking and trolling don't you...

[Goofy4fish]

I have to agree that the lead content must be miniscule, compared to the oil leaks from some boats and the oil film caused by 2 cycle motors.
I think what really drives this is the stocks in Titanium weight companies, that are owned by politicians.
What's next, a ban on plastic floats or bobbers

[Lady Quagga]

How does any of your redundant bee ess change the fact that this lead ban is bogus and will end up costing us a hell of a lot more money? That's my point and Vinh's point as well. The rest of your post is just more psycho-path driven drivel. Boy you love cyber stalking and trolling don't you...

Ah yes, classic Hawggy dismissal. EDIT: And not that you noticed (what with your limited reading skills and all), but Vinh never made that point in any of his posts.


How does any of your redundant bee ess change the fact that this lead ban is bogus and will end up costing us a hell of a lot more money?

Personally, I support current and proposed bans on lead ammunition (for hunting) and certain lead tackle. Lead toxicity in both humans and animals has long been studied, and its effects are not in dispute. There is no safe amount of lead exposure. Now, when I use lead ammunition or tackle like lead split shot, I do my best to minimize my exposure - including most certainly washing my hands thoroughly after shooting or angling. It's a risk to myself I fully acknowledge and try to mitigate.

The argument$ again$t a lead ban$ are invariably economic one$, thu$ revealing their true motivation$. It comes down to greedy bastards more concerned with their profit/loss columns than anything else, and other greedy bastards concerned about having to spend more for a package of sinkers. Reformulation will result in high initial costs, yet in the long run the market will adjust, just as it has for every other consumer product in which lead was eliminated. (Gasoline, the subject of the greatest controversy in the U.S. regarding consumer lead pollution, ultimately suffered an increase of only pennies to the dollar per gallon for unleaded gas.)


The rest of your post is just more psycho-path driven drivel. Boy you love cyber stalking and trolling don't you...

And yet here you are, catching flies with more of your inane mouthbreathing.

[inthroughtheocean]

What's next? Ca banning plastic bags in grocery store? ........ Oh, wait.

[HawgZWylde]

What's next? Ca banning plastic bags in grocery store? ........ Oh, wait.

Soft plastics...

[seal]

Soft plastics...

Yup all they need as an excuse is to open up a few lmb's out of Diamond Valley and out pops several senko's.

[Lady Quagga]

Yup all they need as an excuse is to open up a few lmb's out of Diamond Valley and out pops several senko's.

Come on seal! Senkos are cheap, easy meals! So what if they are nutritionally questionable? Hey - it's what keeps McDonalds in business! :Dancing Banana:

"A McSenko with extra Smelly Jelly......mmmmmm......"

[HawgZWylde]

Yup all they need as an excuse is to open up a few lmb's out of Diamond Valley and out pops several senko's.

http://www.bassmaster.com/news/soft-plastics-banned#

Actually seal, I've caught tons of LMB's at DVL and very few had soft plastic in them. But senko's do seem to be what was in the ones that did spit up soft plastic baits. I personally don't throw senkos...

[seal]

http://www.bassmaster.com/news/soft-plastics-banned#

Actually seal, I've caught tons of LMB's at DVL and very few had soft plastic in them. But senko's do seem to be what was in the ones that did spit up soft plastic baits. I personally don't throw senkos...

Figures some whacked out legislator would suggest banning them, no surprise from me.

Lot's of mini jig manufacturers out there would be out of business then. Good or bad thing? I'm on the fence, lol.

Since I don't keep and gut LMB's I wouldn't know if they actually digest them or not but have seen them burp up plastics before. Still go to the weightless senko on occasion, great bait.

[HawgZWylde]

Figures some whacked out legislator would suggest banning them, no surprise from me.

Lot's of mini jig manufacturers out there would be out of business then. Good or bad thing? I'm on the fence, lol.

Since I don't keep and gut LMB's I wouldn't know if they actually digest them or not but have seen them burp up plastics before. Still go to the weightless senko on occasion, great bait.

Yes, it's a good bait and does indeed catch fish but it's so painfully slow. Of all the soft plastics out there, the senko does seem to be the ones I see on the bottom the most. It's so freaking hard to keep those things on the hook, even with a ring on it...

[seal]

Yes, it's a good bait and does indeed catch fish but it's so painfully slow. Of all the soft plastics out there, the senko does seem to be the ones I see on the bottom the most. It's so freaking hard to keep those things on the hook, even with a ring on it...

I use the Owner hooks with the keepers/twistlocks on them, helps a bit.

[HawgZWylde]

I use the Owner hooks with the keepers/twistlocks on them, helps a bit.

Flylining them hooked like that does keep them on better. It's when they're wacky rigged that they come off at the slightest snag, or bite that doesn't hook up...

[superbigfish]

I'm absolutely fine with the ban on lead weights. Off course they are other more important things the government should regulate. For ex., some moron that keeps bartering tattoo services for goods on craigslist