Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?

[Coleyounger]

Interesting article: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace

"While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk."

Maps and remainder of the article at the link above.

This is going to be a conspiracy theorists dream when you consider the other things that have occurred. I am not into conspiracy theories but something does smell considering that in this region 3 planes have been shot down just this past week...So why did this plane fly over that region?

[DarkShadow]

...So why did this plane fly over that region?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/9189283.jpg

[Coleyounger]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/9189283.jpg

LOL...

"Earlier, when we commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"

The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.

It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as the BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.

It also means that any hope of actually working with facts instead of emotional appeals, and getting to the bottom of the Malaysian airline tragedy, resides in what may be recorded by the black box, whose location right now is now exactly clear. From the Independent:"

See full article here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/ukraines-security-service-has-confiscated-air-traffic-control-recordings-malaysian-j

[DarkShadow]

LOL...

"Earlier, when we commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"

The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.

It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as the BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.

It also means that any hope of actually working with facts instead of emotional appeals, and getting to the bottom of the Malaysian airline tragedy, resides in what may be recorded by the black box, whose location right now is now exactly clear. From the Independent:"

See full article here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/ukraines-security-service-has-confiscated-air-traffic-control-recordings-malaysian-j

Last I heard is that we have radio communication from the Russian militants saying they shot down an airliner, which was made during the time the plane was lost.

I think this is yet another instance where a militant force pulled the trigger on a SAM that hit a target that was not supposed to have been hit. Seems much like the KAL007 flight of 1983.

Sometimes, Occam's Razor does come into play.

•

But I'd rather blame Bigfoot or aliens.

[Coleyounger]

Last I heard is that we have radio communication from the Russian militants saying they shot down an airliner, which was made during the time the plane was lost.

I think this is yet another instance where a militant force pulled the trigger on a SAM that hit a target that was not supposed to have been hit. Seems much like the KAL007 flight of 1983.

Sometimes, Occam's Razor does come into play.

•

But I'd rather blame Bigfoot or aliens.

I have no doubt that the rebel / separatists shot it down. The question is why, after 3 aircraft were shot down in the same region this last week, did;

1) air traffic controllers in Ukraine allow a commercial passenger jet to fly over that region? and; 2) Why did the route deviate from the previous 10 or so flights with the same departure / arrival destination?

To me this doesn't pass the smell test and is something the MSM isn't questioning....I am a skeptic and I question everything in this manner...who has the biggest stake to gain and who has the biggest stake to lose? For Occam's Razor to apply it has to be tested. If there is unanswered questions the theory fails.

Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet..why? Why not just release the tapes directly to news media? Are they being edited or doctored? Ukraine and the U.S. has the biggest stake to gain...If this video has any truth to it, then the U.S. is not dealing with moral people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw&list=UUEHsSWvrGVSIA63OV3J6vhA

[DarkShadow]

If there is unanswered questions the theory fails.

I think Occam's Razor is based on the fact that that in situations like this, it is expected that people will have hundreds of unanswered questions, which is why the basic tenet is based on what 'most likely happened' and not based on 'what ifs," i.e. "hundreds of unanswered questions." The fact that there will be hundreds if not thousands unanswered questions such as "How are you sure Bigfoot wasn't involved," lends more weight to why the theory exists.


Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet..why? Why not just release the tapes directly to news media?

I believe that if a disaster like this occurred on US soil, the LAST thing Air Traffic Control wants to do is release these tapes to our main stream media before an analysis is made. The answer to your question is that ANY country would have confiscated these recordings for review before giving them to TMZ. It's funny how something that is considered status quo in our country can be construed as "suspicious" in any other land mass except ours.

It's akin to asking, "Why did the FBI and CIA confiscate all recordings of the Kennedy assassination before they were made public to the media?"

I'm sure my first answer wouldn't be, "so they could be edited and/or doctored because there was a conspiracy in place."

(Although there are a few members of the Tin Foil Hat club here that would love to run with this thread.)

[Coleyounger]

I think Occam's Razor is based on the fact that that in situations like this, it is expected that people will have hundreds of unanswered questions, which is why the basic tenet is based on what 'most likely happened' and not based on 'what ifs," i.e. "hundreds of unanswered questions." The fact that there will be hundreds if not thousands unanswered questions such as "How are you sure Bigfoot wasn't involved," lends more weight to why the theory exists.



I believe that if a disaster like this occurred on US soil, the LAST thing Air Traffic Control wants to do is release these tapes to our main stream media before an analysis is made. The answer to your question is that ANY country would have confiscated these recordings for review before giving them to TMZ. It's funny how something that is considered status quo in our country can be construed as "suspicious" in any other land mass except ours.

It's akin to asking, "Why did the FBI and CIA confiscate all recordings of the Kennedy assassination before they were made public to the media?"

I'm sure my first answer wouldn't be, "so they could be edited and/or doctored because there was a conspiracy in place."

(Although there are a few members of the Tin Foil Hat club here that would love to run with this thread.)

Occam's Razor states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. I am not putting forth a hypothesis or assumptions. I am asking a couple simple questions the media seems to be purposely avoiding...Air traffic control tapes are different than black box recordings. I would like to know if Ukraine's air traffic controllers guided the flight to this area. Just listening to the tape conversation between the pilot and traffic control should be able to answer this. Further, I am sure there is a record of the flight plan in Amsterdam. Did the flight deviate from the initial plan?

Shooting down aircraft in a war zone is SOP and three aircraft were shot down in this region in the prior 3 days (2 cargo and 1 fighter). Civilians do get killed in war zones and usually, this is not a war crime. It becomes a crime if criminal negligence is involved otherwise, it is considered collateral damage. You are suggesting a conspiracy, I am not. I am suggesting a criminal act may have occurred. This has to be based on facts / evidence that may or may not be contained in the tapes. To suggest a government or government agency needs to listen and decide if the tapes should be released is a argument that needn't occur if the truth is being sought. The fact is the plane was shot down. The evidence point to the rebels doing it. The question as to why this plain was flying over a war zone has not been answered. Did the Ukrainian air traffic controllers commit criminal negligence and if so, was there others involved? What are the circumstances surrounding it? Was it human era on the controllers part? This part of an investigation is simple and easy to put to rest by releasing the tapes. This would have quelled any tin hat conspiracy. If there is nothing to hide, then hide nothing..

[seal]

Most likely flight path was based on cost savings. They probably calculated that nothing would happen and fuel savings would deliver a more profitable flight. I think coincidences are quite often just reality of rolling the dice and the dice coming back to bite you. Bad pilot performance may have cost the other tragedy this one might be just stupidity and greed, two accidents reflecting possibly on a poorly run airline.

That's my first guess, second is Sasquatch. If anything is capable of taking down a plane it's Squatch.

I have to add that it is a very sad situation and Putin is a total ahole.

[Coleyounger]

Most likely flight path was based on cost savings. They probably calculated that nothing would happen and fuel savings would deliver a more profitable flight. I think coincidences are quite often just reality of rolling the dice and the dice coming back to bite you. Bad pilot performance may have cost the other tragedy this one might be just stupidity and greed, two accidents reflecting possibly on a poorly run airline.

That's my first guess, second is Sasquatch. If anything is capable of taking down a plane it's Squatch.

I have to add that it is a very sad situation and Putin is a total ahole.

I am under the impression this is a regular route and I would agree with you if it wasn't for the simple fact that the previous ten flights this plane took for that route was flown south of the war zone. See: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace

I would also think insurance carriers would have requested planes to avoid this airspace.

To me, this points to criminal negligence or one huge error. As far as Putin, yes he is an ahole but he is acting no different than the U.S. has done in the past. We have funded and supported many government overthrows. It is just another example of political special interest.

[DockRat]

MSNBC Dumbass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URF2uOD5nhE