Lake Gregory changes

[seal]

Well here we go! The management team from Diamond Valley looks like it's taking over the concession at lake Gregory. I mentioned this once before in a thread and that I thought daily fishing fees would start when they took over since they like to charge for about everything at DVL. Well looks like I was unfortunately correct.

This is really going to piss off a bunch of locals!!!!!

Here's a link to the whole article and also an excerpt from it.

"A Fishing Access Pass fee will be collected to be used for specific expenditures, including cost of stocked fish, public education regarding the fishery, related subjects and the administrative cost for managing the program."

http://rotwnews.com/2013/12/16/lake-gregory-management-contract-on-board-of-supervisors-agenda/

[Whiteleather]

Damn......that really sucks. Any idea how much the fee is going to be? I didn't see it listed in the article. I was just up at Gregory fishing on Saturday and it was great fishing. Caught and released approximately 15-20 Browns between my buddy and me.

Going back to your article. The sad thing is that DFW is going to be stocking even less fish starting in 2014 so we will have to pay to fish a lake that will be stocked less than in years past when it was free to fish.

Also talked to a DFW guy taking data down regarding the fish and he indicated that after the first of the year, they are going to stop planting the brown trout :Sad:

[jaggerbub]

Sad day for Gegory...

[Troutin Man]

This totally sucks. Now the locals will have to pay to fish too?! That's crazy. Some people moved up there to enjoy the mountains and to fish the lake. Now they will be charged.

What is this world coming to?

[CraigH]

Looks like the business plan also includes charging for parking at the free beach (I think this is the one with the brick / concrete wall that is currently free?) and the ball field.

Concession Parking and Entrance Fee Collection

DEPARTMENT rate authority includes collecting a parking fee, which we will begin to collect. Upon award begin
public information campaign and establish timeline for implementation in the first season of operation including
validation program and locals annual parking pass.

1. North Beach Parking and Entrance Gate (parking by combination hand collection, pay station and season
pass decal). (WE SHALL EVALUATE FENCING CHANGES FOR NORTH BEACH PARKING).

2. South Beach Parking and Entrance Gate (parking by combination hand collection, pay station and season
pass decal)

3. San Moritz Lodge Parking and Entrance Gate (parking will be free to little league during season and to
seniors attending Leisure Shores or Nutrition Program. Parking will be paid by hand collection and
controlled for events.

I couldn't get the links in the article Seal posted to work, but hopefully this one does. Look at item number 68 for all the details ...

http://cob-sire.sbcounty.gov/sirepub/pubmtgframe.aspx?meetid=2442&doctype=AGENDA

[seal]

Looks like the business plan also includes charging for parking at the free beach (I think this is the one with the brick / concrete wall that is currently free?) and the ball field.

Concession Parking and Entrance Fee Collection

DEPARTMENT rate authority includes collecting a parking fee, which we will begin to collect. Upon award begin
public information campaign and establish timeline for implementation in the first season of operation including
validation program and locals annual parking pass.

1. North Beach Parking and Entrance Gate (parking by combination hand collection, pay station and season
pass decal). (WE SHALL EVALUATE FENCING CHANGES FOR NORTH BEACH PARKING).

2. South Beach Parking and Entrance Gate (parking by combination hand collection, pay station and season
pass decal)

3. San Moritz Lodge Parking and Entrance Gate (parking will be free to little league during season and to
seniors attending Leisure Shores or Nutrition Program. Parking will be paid by hand collection and
controlled for events.

I couldn't get the links in the article Seal posted to work, but hopefully this one does. Look at item number 68 for all the details ...

http://cob-sire.sbcounty.gov/sirepub/pubmtgframe.aspx?meetid=2442&doctype=AGENDA

Thanks for this link! Sounds like they are going to try and appease some of the locals with the "locals annual parking permit" but it doesn't say if there will be a cost involved, probably will be.

Remember you can't even go for a walk at DVL without paying the piper, as soon as I saw that the management team from there was involved it was pretty much the nail in the coffin.

But there are a lot of hijinks played at that lake and it's been getting worse the last couple years, so if there's a positive maybe there will be a little better control of that element.

[Trout Daddy]

See below from the document. They are trying to make it sustainable. There is fee's involved the County cannot manage anything right including their Fire Dept.......


Lake*Gregory*Strain*for*Trout*Pens.**We*will*make* contact*with*Tim*Alpers,*a*close*friend*of*the*bus iness,*
and*he*will*be*asked*about*developing*a*strain*of* Alpers’*Browns*for*Lake*Gregory.**His*name*would*b ring*
great*attention*to*the*lake*among*anglers*and*crea te*a*singular*reputation*for*the*lake.**
*
3. New*Rentals.**We*will*test*market*the*rental*of*fu lly*outfitted*float*tubes*for*the*angling*visitors *familiar*
with*that*form*or*fishing*and*will*conduct*demonst ration*programs*for*fishing*technique*and*will*als o*
promote*the*stocking*of*trophy*sizes*if*available* from*CDFW*or*private*hatchery*sources.**Trophy*cat ch*
and*release*will*be*encouraged.

[seal]

See below from the document. They are trying to make it sustainable. There is fee's involved the County cannot manage anything right including their Fire Dept.......


Lake*Gregory*Strain*for*Trout*Pens.**We*will*make* contact*with*Tim*Alpers,*a*close*friend*of*the*bus iness,*
and*he*will*be*asked*about*developing*a*strain*of* Alpers’*Browns*for*Lake*Gregory.**His*name*would*b ring*
great*attention*to*the*lake*among*anglers*and*crea te*a*singular*reputation*for*the*lake.**
*
3. New*Rentals.**We*will*test*market*the*rental*of*fu lly*outfitted*float*tubes*for*the*angling*visitors *familiar*
with*that*form*or*fishing*and*will*conduct*demonst ration*programs*for*fishing*technique*and*will*als o*
promote*the*stocking*of*trophy*sizes*if*available* from*CDFW*or*private*hatchery*sources.**Trophy*cat ch*
and*release*will*be*encouraged.

For me these changes won't be all that big of a deal. I fish Gregory regularly with friends that live up there but not enough to worry about having to pay an entrance fee. But the people I know that live in Crestline that like to walk the lake and fish it more often than I are not going to be happy! I'm really surprised this hasn't been talked about locally. I'm spreading the word up there now just cause they need to know. I don't think the reality of the situation has settled in quite yet.

[Trout Daddy]

It costs money to run the lake. The Co has NO MONEY to run much of anything these days. The option is to sub out. The folks that are interested are capitalists therefore fees are arranged. Does it suck to lose a "free" lake? Hell yes it does, however if they make changes that make a fee worth while than it should be okay. The baseball fields alone can make that area a ton of money with tournaments......

[seal]

It costs money to run the lake. The Co has NO MONEY to run much of anything these days. The option is to sub out. The folks that are interested are capitalists therefore fees are arranged. Does it suck to lose a "free" lake? Hell yes it does, however if they make changes that make a fee worth while than it should be okay. The baseball fields alone can make that area a ton of money with tournaments......

It is a positive to those that don't live there. It is being sold as a positive to those that live there. If I lived there I'd be very concerned, as friends of mine that do live there and are now becoming aware of the changes are.

Here's the business plan. Note annual parking fees of $45.00 for local residents, that is only for local residents. Expect similar to greater price structures that the regional parks currently charge, that would be my guess as the price point for fishing. Probably in the $12-15 per day range, lower than Irvine, SARL etc.. but still substantial. I have not found the detail yet on what they will be charging daily use or fisherman, my assumption they will start out lower and every year raise prices, that's just based on track records. Also note that a California fishing license will still be required, so you have to pay to fish and have a license, that is becoming the norm. at many lakes.

Note the inclusion of many of the same individuals from DVL, even Quinn in the mix (not saying that's a negative just an example). If you think that DVL is a well run facility and facilities are nice then you are going to probably like what they do at Gregory.

http://cob-sire.sbcounty.gov/sirepub/cache/2/glv5lnqctvhugk4lamzihe13/174788712182013100622398.PDF

[jaggerbub]

I've been looking at buying a cabin around crestline for a while now, but this new change at Gregory changes everything for me. I've enjoyed fishing that lake in the past few years and the idea of buying a cabin up there was so appealing. Not so much anymore with this new business plan...

[seal]

I've been looking at buying a cabin around crestline for a while now, but this new change at Gregory changes everything for me. I've enjoyed fishing that lake in the past few years and the idea of buying a cabin up there was so appealing. Not so much anymore with this new business plan...

My problem is I envision a "pay to fish" type atmosphere right in their backyard. Very sad that the locals will no longer be able to just walk to the lake and toss a line out for a couple hours. For that matter I'm bummed I can't go visit friends and just play for a couple hours without being hit with a daily fishing permit, still trying to figure out what our license fees are actually going for these days!

[HawgZWylde]

"still trying to figure out what our license fees are actually going for these days!"

No brainer seal, government labor costs rather than services. Instead of pay and pension reductions like the rest of us in the private sector have suffered, they cut the services the fees were originally meant for. Higher taxes, higher fees, less services, less stockers, less access. Won't get any better until the folks realize they're being taken for dupes. And here in one party cali, don't expect that any time soon, if ever. Hell, the gov and other gov workers just got raises...

[MexicanPistachio]

I've been looking at buying a cabin around crestline for a while now, but this new change at Gregory changes everything for me. I've enjoyed fishing that lake in the past few years and the idea of buying a cabin up there was so appealing. Not so much anymore with this new business plan...

It does suck losing a free fishing lake but sucks even more when my (and every other sb county resident) tax money goes to a sinking ship. I know gregory is not the only entity that loses money but losing over half a million dollars so locals can fish for free is bs. I went from buying the season boat pass and renting a battery to going once last season due lack of stocking. If they stock lassens and browns from alpers everyone will profit. For one reason or another the county never made gregory reach it's full potential, maybe this company will.

[etucker1959]

My problem is I envision a "pay to fish" type atmosphere right in their backyard. Very sad that the locals will no longer be able to just walk to the lake and toss a line out for a couple hours. For that matter I'm bummed I can't go visit friends and just play for a couple hours without being hit with a daily fishing permit, still trying to figure out what our license fees are actually going for these days!

Boy Seal, you asked so many good questions I don't know where to start or finish. However I'll do my best!!!!! lol First question, where does your fishing license money go??????? A lot of places, but the DFW can't live on just license fees only. They get a lot of additional revenue from many sources, but how it's spent is where you can have a great big debate. You know me, I LIKE TAX'S!!!!!!!! The problem is most people DON'T, however they want their cake and eat it too!!!!! They like free fishing lakes like Gregory, but who is going to pay for them is the big question.To be totally fair, the benefit principle taxation concept is the least objectionably. Which is, those who use the lake are the ones who should pay for the lake. Remember that's not my best solution, but it is the fairest one!!!!!!

[goodguy]

It's gonna be a pain in the A** for them to patrol and enforce this. The lake is easily accessable from roads all around the lake. This is sad.... One of the few free lakes we have in southern ca that's worth fishing..

[seal]

There is a group that love to jig up the big fish, they are going to love it. That minority does not = a positive for the mountain community.

Coming from 2 different places on this one, those that love to go jig up big trout and compete in "tournaments" and those that just enjoy using their licenses to put in a couple hours of fishing at their local lake, I can see why some really like the proposed business plan. Irvine, SARL, Corona etc.. are not set in the middle of a community with cabins/houses almost on the water. The noise, loud music, trash, cussing, drinking and other stuff that some bring with them when they visit I'm afraid will bother the locals that enjoy leisurely strolls around the lake.

The end result is a + for some and a possible - for those that are actually living in the neighborhood, but that is only my opinion and I hope I'm wrong for the communities sake.

PS - Last 2 years have been better than years past at Gregory, but not as many big fish as years past if that is your gauge. The loss of money's have to do with private stockings to try and compete with pay to fish lakes without actually bringing in any substantial revenue to cover expenses. There are other operating costs also beyond the fishing side of things of course.

[seal]

It's gonna be a pain in the A** for them to patrol and enforce this. The lake is easily accessable from roads all around the lake. This is sad.... One of the few free lakes we have in southern ca that's worth fishing..

Can you say poaching? This proposal was passed unanimously by the supervisors, hope they were right!

[MexicanPistachio]

I was at DVL today and they were talking about Gregory. Its not only fishing that they are wanting to improve. They want to add cabins, improved swimming area and other family activities. More people that go up should equal more money into the community. I think the market, Camp Switzerland and restaurants will see more traffic and money. I think "jiggers" and bait fisherman will get along, after all its a big lake.

Last week I was "jigging" when an older man came up to me and said snagging is not allowed. I kept my cool and then watched this "sportsman" take his limit of trout to his truck, casted both poles out and then used his sling shot to try and hit the cormorants. My point is every group and their fair share of good and bad. I'm sure the poor locals has both too. Btw Caltip sometimes works!

[seal]

I was at DVL today and they were talking about Gregory. Its not only fishing that they are wanting to improve. They want to add cabins, improved swimming area and other family activities. More people that go up should equal more money into the community. I think the market, Camp Switzerland and restaurants will see more traffic and money. I think "jiggers" and bait fisherman will get along, after all its a big lake.

Last week I was "jigging" when an older man came up to me and said snagging is not allowed. I kept my cool and then watched this "sportsman" take his limit of trout to his truck, casted both poles out and then used his sling shot to try and hit the cormorants. My point is every group and their fair share of good and bad. I'm sure the poor locals has both too. Btw Caltip sometimes works!

Diamond Valley is a funny place to mention when it comes to this subject. DVL was the biggest bait and switch ever, promised the moon when it came to the facilities and delivered the bare minimum. Hope Gregory doesn't have the same outcome.

The "jiggers" have been at it at Gregory recently when the browns were stacked up at the ball field, and that was just for the little brownies.

[QB7940]

Really bummed out by this change. I'm glad if this change adds to the economy of crestline, but to be a little selfish I love being able to sneak up to Gregory and fish this mountain lake get away, even if its just for the small crappie that roam the weed lines. The fact that I didn't have to pay made it so much more organic feeling. No adventure pass needed, just you going fishing not catching. Not looking forward to the pay lake atmosphere that will happen here.

[Bass Boy 14]

For me personally, this is horrible! Me and my dad went up there all the time, and have caught a ton of trout up there. For anyone who has seen my posts, you know I loved to fish the tournaments they held. My dad and I don't have the money to go up there and pay $12-$15 every time plus parking fees. I won't be going there anymore, and I believe many others are right there with me. Maybe they'll go bankrupt from the depletion of people going there. Anyways, just wanted to add my input.

[Trout Daddy]

Here is the bottom line on this change. 1. The county cannot afford to maintain the lake any longer. 2. Crestline is the Muscoy of the mountains (argue all u want on this but its the truth). 3. The lake either gets "left alone" or maintained by a private contractor. 4. There is money to be made there with stocking fish, offering other recreational opportunities, using the baseball fields for tournaments, and adding amenities. 5. Fee's will be affordable. It's not going to be a $28 dollar fishing pass, you will still have to have a fishing license. 6. Jiggers or bait and wait, they all have select assholes who go to the lakes and do their part to ruin the sport for the rest of us. 7. We live in Southern California for crying out loud. If you were a avid sportsman you would have moved long ago like most of my family and friends who were did. 8. At the end of the day, $ talks and bullshit walks. This company is a for profit organization. If the "locals" cared so much about the lake they would have found a way to do something to prevent this from happening. The fact that they don't know this is happening but everyone has known that doesn't live there is odd.

I have fished Gregory occasionally. I also fish other lakes in the area. Look at what is left, NOTHING. The only free lakes are Arrowbear, Jackson Lake, and Big Bear Lake. Other than that you are gonna pay. My dad told me when he moved to Montana, there is price to pay to live in So Cal no matter what you are talking about.......Believe That!

[etucker1959]

I'm surprised nobody but me is connecting the dots on what's happening at lake Gregory. It's a classic example of political philosophy, if you understand what it means to be a Conservative, you should be applauding what's happening at Lake Gregory. To keep Lake Gregory open and free, somebody is going to have to pay for it. So you got two CHOICES, raise someones tax's (HELL NO SAY'S THE GOOD CONSERVATIVES) or do what their doing. It's as simple as that!!!!! lol

[Gio Perez]

It is a positive to those that don't live there. It is being sold as a positive to those that live there. If I lived there I'd be very concerned, as friends of mine that do live there and are now becoming aware of the changes are.

Here's the business plan. Note annual parking fees of $45.00 for local residents, that is only for local residents. Expect similar to greater price structures that the regional parks currently charge, that would be my guess as the price point for fishing. Probably in the $12-15 per day range, lower than Irvine, SARL etc.. but still substantial. I have not found the detail yet on what they will be charging daily use or fisherman, my assumption they will start out lower and every year raise prices, that's just based on track records. Also note that a California fishing license will still be required, so you have to pay to fish and have a license, that is becoming the norm. at many lakes.

Note the inclusion of many of the same individuals from DVL, even Quinn in the mix (not saying that's a negative just an example). If you think that DVL is a well run facility and facilities are nice then you are going to probably like what they do at Gregory.

http://cob-sire.sbcounty.gov/sirepub/cache/2/glv5lnqctvhugk4lamzihe13/174788712182013100622398.PDF

Well, it does kind of suck, but, you can't get something for nothing, so it makes sense you have to pay now. C.A. is in a bad financial state, nobody wants to pay taxes, yet everyone wants services? You can't get something for nothing, someone has to pay.

[castle]

Gregory is one of my best fishing places.I don't plan on fishing there anymore either if people have to pay a 15 or 20 dollar fee to fish. They will fence it all off anyways and the place will start to look ghetto.

[seal]

Here is the bottom line on this change. 1. The county cannot afford to maintain the lake any longer. 2. Crestline is the Muscoy of the mountains (argue all u want on this but its the truth). 3. The lake either gets "left alone" or maintained by a private contractor. 4. There is money to be made there with stocking fish, offering other recreational opportunities, using the baseball fields for tournaments, and adding amenities. 5. Fee's will be affordable. It's not going to be a $28 dollar fishing pass, you will still have to have a fishing license. 6. Jiggers or bait and wait, they all have select assholes who go to the lakes and do their part to ruin the sport for the rest of us. 7. We live in Southern California for crying out loud. If you were a avid sportsman you would have moved long ago like most of my family and friends who were did. 8. At the end of the day, $ talks and bullshit walks. This company is a for profit organization. If the "locals" cared so much about the lake they would have found a way to do something to prevent this from happening. The fact that they don't know this is happening but everyone has known that doesn't live there is odd.

I have fished Gregory occasionally. I also fish other lakes in the area. Look at what is left, NOTHING. The only free lakes are Arrowbear, Jackson Lake, and Big Bear Lake. Other than that you are gonna pay. My dad told me when he moved to Montana, there is price to pay to live in So Cal no matter what you are talking about.......Believe That!

The locals are probably unaware of how these changes will affect the environment around the lake. The locals have for years tried to clean up and maintain the area, on their own when needed.

The fact that there are only a few "free" lakes left makes this all the more bothersome. I believe that some like the atmosphere, fishing opportunities etc.. that a pay to fish lake provides and I believe that is where you are coming from. That's cool but there are some of us left that miss and will fight for the days where we could just go dangle a line for some pan sized trout without having to pay a fee on top of our license costs.

By the way I am very aware of most stuff that occurs up in the San Bernardino mountain areas, this one was a suprise to me and others that I know of that live there, but the way it's being hyped unless you are a local that likes to dangle a line often the impact is probably hard to see, in fact it may appear to be a good thing to most locals and possibly it will be for them, lets hope.

No matter what is written or talked about this is a loss for some of us. To the community the end result is still TBD.

[seal]

Well, it does kind of suck, but, you can't get something for nothing, so it makes sense you have to pay now. C.A. is in a bad financial state, nobody wants to pay taxes, yet everyone wants services? You can't get something for nothing, someone has to pay.

You asked "what can you do"? About all that is left is beotching and moaning on FNN. The deal is done.

[etucker1959]

The locals are probably unaware of how these changes will affect the environment around the lake. The locals have for years tried to clean up and maintain the area, on their own when needed.

The fact that there are only a few "free" lakes left makes this all the more bothersome. I believe that some like the atmosphere, fishing opportunities etc.. that a pay to fish lake provides and I believe that is where you are coming from. That's cool but there are some of us left that miss and will fight for the days where we could just go dangle a line for some pan sized trout without having to pay a fee on top of our license costs.

By the way I am very aware of most stuff that occurs up in the San Bernardino mountain areas, this one was a suprise to me and others that I know of that live there, but the way it's being hyped unless you are a local that likes to dangle a line often the impact is probably hard to see, in fact it may appear to be a good thing to most locals and possibly it will be for them, lets hope.

No matter what is written or talked about this is a loss for some of us. To the community the end result is still TBD.

Seal that was very well written and I feel for the locals. I personally believe there should be good fishing opportunities for all California residents, regardless of their pocket books. This coming from a guy and his fishing partner who just spent almost a $100 to catch some planted trout yesterday. I realize not everyone can afford to do that, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some state lakes that allow other people the same opportunity. There I go again, talking like a some kind of collective Liberal. Which we all know is VERY BAD!!!!!! lol

[seal]

Seal that was very well written and I feel for the locals. I personally believe there should be good fishing opportunities for all California residents, regardless of their pocket books. This coming from a guy and his fishing partner who just spent almost a $100 to catch some planted trout yesterday. I realize not everyone can afford to do that, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some state lakes that allow other people the same opportunity. There I go again, talking like a some kind of collective Liberal. Which we all know is VERY BAD!!!!!! lol

Here's the deal, I can afford to spend the money but that's not really the point. I have a bit of connection on that mountain and am a little protective of it so my perspective is a little different. But don't think if they start a trophy brown program up there like is being discussed that I won't be up there tossing fly's around from my float tube! I'm just not a fan of combat fishing that occurs at the pay to fish lakes but as long as you can get away from the shoreline you can usually avoid that insanity.

To me this isn't about taxes, politics or whatever it's about trying to hold onto something that is very rare in the So Cal area, the benefits for a trophy trout lake do not outweigh my desire to keep around those lakes that are still "free".

[etucker1959]

Here's the deal, I can afford to spend the money but that's not really the point. I have a bit of connection on that mountain and am a little protective of it so my perspective is a little different. But don't think if they start a trophy brown program up there like is being discussed that I won't be up there tossing fly's around from my float tube! I'm just not a fan of combat fishing that occurs at the pay to fish lakes but as long as you can get away from the shoreline you can usually avoid that insanity.

To me this isn't about taxes, politics or whatever it's about trying to hold onto something that is very rare in the So Cal area, the benefits for a trophy trout lake do not outweigh my desire to keep around those lakes that are still "free".

I can understand your feelings about being a local, but there is that other user group of people that use lake Gregory. The non locals and many of them have expressed their feelings on this thread.

[phishin phool]

As someone who fishes Corona and other pay lakes during the winter I REALLY look forward to fishing Gregory and Jenks between Sierra trips during the summer getting away from the combat fishing season and enjoying the peace the mountains give without the crowds. I sincerely hope this change doesn't change the charm of Gregory and turn it into a pay lake environment. It is still early so lets not get too worked up yet. Seal, please keep us posted on whats happening up there.