View Full Version : Maybe Rumou'rs maybe Not ??
Ok guys Guys maybe this is Just a Rumour....maybe Not
at the dock in Lake Perris today I chatted with a couple guys who were just off the lake from Fishing. They both claim to be Maintenance workers at DVL.
They claim DVL or the water Company is making big money Selling water at this point and that in 3 years time the Lake will be closed to the public just like lake Matthews.
Supposed to be really Hush Hush but they have had Meetings about the future of public access.
In the meeting they claim the public access is bring in no money for the lake and they are better off just selling off the water.
Now is it all Bass Fisherman Baloney ?? or is it Possible ?
If it is Baloney Great....if it is possible this is not good for The Fishermen
I have no idea how to check it out or confirm any of it
Now don't go off Deep end .... It is something worth Investigating to Prove it is just a bad Rumour
Tom
Grand plan is coming together? This was a bait and switch from the beginning. Wouldn't surprise me, would be easy to justify, just not enough public use not enough revenue right? But the reason for low revenue is the lack of facilities and no real effort to draw in more of the public by giving them what was promised. I know all the die hard fisherman like it being a fishing only lake but it could also be the lakes downfall.
Hope it's not true.
Grand plan is coming together? This was a bait and switch from the beginning. Wouldn't surprise me, would be easy to justify, just not enough public use not enough revenue right? But the reason for low revenue is the lack of facilities and no real effort to draw in more of the public by giving them what was promised. I know all the die hard fisherman like it being a fishing only lake but it could also be the lakes downfall.
Hope it's not true.
I hope it is Just Rumour
I would think there are people on this fishing board that might be able to find the truth
the guys did claim there was not enough revenue from the fishermen to warrant keeping it open to the public
if it is just a rumour it is a pretty good One
GdHkSet1
10-30-2013, 08:58 PM
I'm surprised they haven't shut it down already, I have no gripes-yea I'll miss it if it closes but dam it until that day comes I'll try to fish it as much as I can and as hard as I can, and when they lock the gate, I'll be at Skinner or Perris. Fish on.
cutbait
10-30-2013, 11:29 PM
Some facts.
Diamond Valley water is not being "sold".
Every municiple water dist is nonprofit.
The lake was built to store allocated water, by definition every drop in the lake has already been promised or allocated to be delivered.
One thing is correct, lake recreation is more of a hassle to the owner than any monetary gain. Count your blessing, its private property and you guys are lucky to have the access.
Having said that my feelings are all bodies of state or federal or local govt.should be made available to the public
Some facts.
Diamond Valley water is not being "sold".
Every municiple water dist is nonprofit.
The lake was built to store allocated water, by definition every drop in the lake has already been promised or allocated to be delivered.
One thing is correct, lake recreation is more of a hassle to the owner than any monetary gain. Count your blessing, its private property and you guys are lucky to have the access.
Having said that my feelings are all bodies of state or federal or local govt.should be made available to the public
Not Arguing with you at all...
The home work I have done this morning
Reservoir Owner: Metropolitan Water District of Southern California
Print page
No water restrictions despite dry year
By David DowneynoonMay 3, 2013
Despite an exceptionally dry winter, both locally and in distant mountain ranges that capture our water supply as snow, Southwest County residents won't be squeezed by watering restrictions during the long, hot summer ahead, local officials say.
That's largely because a huge amount sits in storage. Nearby Diamond Valley Lake, for example, is 84 percent full, said Armando Acuna, a spokesman for Metropolitan Water District in Los Angeles.
"We’re in great shape," Acuna said in a telephone interview Monday. "In fact, we have more water stored than at any time in our history.”
Metropolitan has a total of 3.3 million acre-feet in lakes and underground reservoirs, or twice as much as in 2009 and 13 times as much as in 1980, said Deven Upadhyay, a water resources manager at Metropolitan.
That is despite the state enduring its driest January-February-March in recorded history ---- during what is usually the wettest season of the year, Acuna said.
Upadhyay said storage is in such good shape there should be plenty water in 2014, too, if the state is hit with another dry year.
Metropolitan is a giant wholesaler that pipes water in from the Colorado River and Northern California, and distributes it to Southern California communities through regional agencies such as Eastern Municipal Water District and Western Municipal Water District in Riverside County. Those 26 regional agencies sell directly to customers and deliver to other agencies that in turn sell.
Because of tight supplies during the last drought, those providers' allocations were cut between the middle of 2009 and 2011, Upadhyay said.
Depending on who you purchase from, your provider gets 60 percent to 80 percent from outside the region.
With the abundant storage today, Elsinore Valley Municipal Water District won't limit the amount its customers may use or restrict them to watering certain days of the week this summer, said district spokesman Greg Morrison.
So this tells us they Do sell water ......as does this article
By: Page Editor
Published October 21, 2013, in More
All told, the various post-2003 programs have helped safeguard emergency reserves stored in Diamond Valley Lake while keeping taps on throughout Southern California.
Maureen Stapleton, general manager of the county water authority, said the battles over the transfer have been worthwhile. Without it, the region would have no sizable source of water other than what it buys from Metropolitan.
The Imperial water is guaranteed safe from drought-driven delivery reductions from Metropolitan, she said.
“We would be working with a less diverse water portfolio, which means we would have a less reliable supply,” Stapleton said.
That hit home in the last drought between July 2009 and April 2011. That’s when Metropolitan scaled back sales to the water authority by about 13 percent. The authority, thanks to its Imperial Valley deals, was able to limit its reductions to member agencies to 8 percent.
But the cushion doesn’t come cheap, especially in the San Diego region. The water authority this year is expected to pay $54 million to the Imperial Irrigation District for just the water. Another $45.3 million in delivery charges will go to metropolitan.
So they do sell the water to other districts and Farmers??
Is it really possible that the sportsmen are more of a hassle without enough revenue to be worth it?
Some facts.
Diamond Valley water is not being "sold".
Every municiple water dist is nonprofit.
The lake was built to store allocated water, by definition every drop in the lake has already been promised or allocated to be delivered.
One thing is correct, lake recreation is more of a hassle to the owner than any monetary gain. Count your blessing, its private property and you guys are lucky to have the access.
Having said that my feelings are all bodies of state or federal or local govt.should be made available to the public
Really Cutbait? I am no expert but did they not need tax dollars to build? Did they not sell a bill of goods to the public promising many recreation activities which they only delivered a piece of crap tackle shop, some crappy rentals (maybe a couple nice ones), a crapper that is well crappy, a museum nobody uses and maybe a few floating outhouses, oh they did extend the launch ramp right?
I don't recall all that was promised but I believe it was being sold as the "jewell" and many other water activities and camping etc. were promised which would have brought in necessary boaters and use to warrant the lake staying open.
I'm glad you agree all water should be open, even the ones you get to fish, lol!
cutbait
10-31-2013, 10:24 AM
Really Cutbait? I am no expert but did they not need tax dollars to build? Did they not sell a bill of goods to the public promising many recreation activities which they only delivered a piece of crap tackle shop, some crappy rentals (maybe a couple nice ones), a crapper that is well crappy, a museum nobody uses and maybe a few floating outhouses, oh they did extend the launch ramp right?
I don't recall all that was promised but I believe it was being sold as the "jewell" and many other water activities and camping etc. were promised which would have brought in necessary boaters and use to warrant the lake staying open.
I'm glad you agree all water should be open, even the ones you get to fish, lol!
What does everything you have to say here relate to "selling" water?
You make a great case of potential lies "if" they close, but none of this challenges the owners selling water charge
I reread your reply and see your point about tax dollars and promises.
Two things.
Wouldn't have been the first time a gov't agency lied to you right?
Second, your point is moot because technically and very factually the lake is open and at this point remains open
What does everything you have to say here relate to "selling" water?
Second, your point is moot because technically and very factually the lake is open and at this point remains open
Confused maybe you worded you're response wrong but absolutely nothing I said really had to do with selling water, I'm just still bitter I guess that what was promised was not just not delivered it wasn't even CLOSE to what was promised.
Not really moot because my main premise is that the lake was a bait and switch, no matter if they stay open or not that reality still exists, in my mind.
cutbait
10-31-2013, 10:42 AM
Not Arguing with you at all...
?
And I am not arguing with you.
Facts are All Water Districts are local gov't agencies. They are prohibited from turning a profit!
Your hung up on this word "sell"... Water districts exchange water all the time.
Water takes a lot of energy to move if it is not fed by gravity, even if gravity fed, maintenance and upkeep of EVERY delivery system is necessary.
Pumps, pipeline, weed control, so on and so on. One water district or entity will pass this cost onto the next.
Water dist A gets 1 acre foot from the state for 45 dollars, stores it and moves it on to water district B for 54 dollars. To the uninformed that looks like a profit of 10 dollars right? and this is where the confusion is. It took that water district 10 dollars to operate.
Another example.
Water district has an operating budget of 10 million, okay? water costs are 8 million to purchase from the state or fed. 2 million would then be to operate.
Now say that water district has an excess of water such as MWD with Diamond valley, it then "sells" {which is really transfers} that water to another water dist. and turns a profit {they way you think of it}. That profit {the way you think of it} goes back into to budget to keep its rates lower, or in some cases tax rebates to the property owners.
There is not some grand billionaire Buffet type getting richer by the selling of water regarding water districts.
Those are the farmers not farming property and selling off water rights {which is another story altogether and not related to DVL}
cutbait
10-31-2013, 10:45 AM
Confused maybe you worded you're response wrong but absolutely nothing I said really had to do with selling water, I'm just still bitter I guess that what was promised was not just not delivered it wasn't even CLOSE to what was promised.
Not really moot because my main premise is that the lake was a bait and switch, no matter if they stay open or not that reality still exists, in my mind.
Seal, come on... we both know how govt' promises work out? Your not surprised are you
Worded my reply badly? Id be surprised if it wasn't typing on this little phone only able to look one sentence back for reference, and my memory is about that
I am not going to argue anything....But i did post article where Metropolitan water district does sell the water That is for sure
about the rest we have no idea yet
this thread is about ........can anyone find out of they really plan on closing the lake to the public?
No reason for anyone to have their panties in a bunch....why is it so hard to stay on topic ?
Confused maybe you worded you're response wrong but absolutely nothing I said really had to do with selling water, I'm just still bitter I guess that what was promised was not just not delivered it wasn't even CLOSE to what was promised.
Not really moot because my main premise is that the lake was a bait and switch, no matter if they stay open or not that reality still exists, in my mind.
I am not going to argue anything....But i did post article where Metropolitan water district does sell the water That is for sure
about the rest we have no idea yet
this thread is about ........can anyone find out of they really plan on closing the lake to the public?
No reason for anyone to have their panties in a bunch....why is it so hard to stay on topic ?
Huh? My response was to Cutbait. My initial post I think was pertinent to the discussion but I don't have the answer only an inkling that what you were told may have some reality to it based on past history of how DVL has been sold to us and what we now have. The lack of revenue is potentially their weapon for unplugging public access which has a direct correlation with how they manage public access to the lake. Very related!
cutbait
10-31-2013, 10:58 AM
Tom? this whole discussion is on topic?
Follow along..
You posted two articles by journalists in the non water world. They too are confused and use the word "sell"...
I'm trying to bring you out of that mindset.
It is directly related to shutting down DVL, please follow along
Stormcrow
10-31-2013, 12:54 PM
Hey guys...I think many of you are over analyzing this. It is just a rumor. DVL is not going anywhere, they are NOT going to close it. This, for several reasons. the first two are simple enough and more than enough to justify keeping it open:
Closing it would be political suicide (if you know how DVL came into being then you know what I am talking about)
There is no significant gain in closing it. There is more than enough water currently.... (If we have severe drought for another 10 years maybe this can be re-addressed)
Simple as that. If you are crunching numbers, you have too much time on your hands :-) Go fishing!
Hey guys...I think many of you are over analyzing this. It is just a rumor. DVL is not going anywhere, they are NOT going to close it. This, for several reasons. the first two are simple enough and more than enough to justify keeping it open:
Closing it would be political suicide (if you know how DVL came into being then you know what I am talking about)
There is no significant gain in closing it. There is more than enough water currently.... (If we have severe drought for another 10 years maybe this can be re-addressed)
Simple as that. If you are crunching numbers, you have too much time on your hands :-) Go fishing!
Yes and then there is the potential lawsuits if they closed it down I'm quite certain there would be hell to pay! But they might just be that dumb.
Stormcrow
10-31-2013, 01:11 PM
Yes and then there is the potential lawsuits if they closed it down I'm quite certain there would be hell to pay! But they might just be that dumb.
Yep, the lawsuits would be numerous and legit. Closing DVL would affect home and business values for miles around.
Sorry Seal My apologies to you Sir...
That was meant for Cutbait
Huh? My response was to Cutbait. My initial post I think was pertinent to the discussion but I don't have the answer only an inkling that what you were told may have some reality to it based on past history of how DVL has been sold to us and what we now have. The lack of revenue is potentially their weapon for unplugging public access which has a direct correlation with how they manage public access to the lake. Very related!
Sorry Seal My apologies to you Sir...
That was meant for Cutbait
No problem Tom!
Dsrt Tortise
10-31-2013, 09:55 PM
Confused maybe you worded you're response wrong but absolutely nothing I said really had to do with selling water, I'm just still bitter I guess that what was promised was not just not delivered it wasn't even CLOSE to what was promised.
Not really moot because my main premise is that the lake was a bait and switch, no matter if they stay open or not that reality still exists, in my mind.
Dude you are hitting the nail right on its head and driving home your point carefully. The promises that were made to the people of the Hemet-San Jacinto Valleys were never even started to be carried out. This has been a true example of putting the spin on to the people:Confused: and hoping that they will die off before anyone pushes to get these items finished. Dsrt Tortise:Big Grin::Big Grin:
SurfCityUSA
11-02-2013, 09:41 AM
They both claim to be Maintenance workers at DVL.
OK here is my logic on this one. If two "maintenance workers" have heard something, then all the levels of supervisors, management up the food chain know something or have heard something. Certainly this could not be kept quiet. Someone else would have discussed this somewhere or to someone. Maybe even the press. But a Google search does not show anything.
This rumor is the maintenance workers opinion and not based on any facts or facts of rumor from MWD.
IMHO.
Surf
chompot
11-04-2013, 08:18 PM
This same question in different forms has appeared a few times over the years and the discussion is always the same....
1. Cutbait is dead on in terms of how utilities in CA operate. I have a little idea I happen to work for the largest in the state.
2. DVL is water for the people MWD serves, not the fisherman that fish on it's surface. I know we like to think they are, but they are NOT keeping that water there so we can catch fishies.
3. California politicians could care less about sportsman in this state. MLPA and the new statewide lead ammo ban are just 2 of the many recent examples. The sportsman voting voice is terrible here as well. Other than the small percentage of die-hards, very few pay attention to current legislation attacking our rights to hunt and fish.
4. Although a rumor now, do not be surprised to have to fight to keep DVL open in the future. Haiwee reservoir is another reservoir we lost, oh yeah, also owned and operated by another municipality.
Do not get me wrong, I think all of these closed waterways should be open (I would love to target big smallies in Haiwee), especially if funded by public dollars. Unfortunately in CA we have to take these places to fish as a blessing and a privilege and that is unfortunate. :(
cutbait
11-04-2013, 08:23 PM
This same question in different forms has appeared a few times over the years and the discussion is always the same....
1. Cutbait is dead on in terms of how utilities in CA operate. I have a little idea I happen to work for the largest in the state.
2. DVL is water for the people MWD serves, not the fisherman that fish on it's surface. I know we like to think they are, but they are NOT keeping that water there so we can catch fishies.
3. California politicians could care less about sportsman in this state. MLPA and the new statewide lead ammo ban are just 2 of the many recent examples. The sportsman voting voice is terrible here as well. Other than the small percentage of die-hards, very few pay attention to current legislation attacking our rights to hunt and fish.
4. Although a rumor now, do not be surprised to have to fight to keep DVL open in the future. Haiwee reservoir is another reservoir we lost, oh yeah, also owned and operated by another municipality.
Do not get me wrong, I think all of these closed waterways should be open (I would love to target big smallies in Haiwee), especially if funded by public dollars. Unfortunately in CA we have to take these places to fish as a blessing and a privilege and that is unfortunate. :(
Stay on topic please!
JigStop
11-06-2013, 10:01 AM
What the hell? Have you ever heard of the City of Bell? They made a huge profit. Who are you joking. Not all "die-hard" type fishermen are idiots. By the way, I think the tone of your posts are very condescending. The lake needs a fish dock and a cleaning station. Not that big a deal. Just ask Kwin.
nolivebait4bass
11-06-2013, 10:20 AM
Stay on topic please!
you should all listen to cutbait. After all, he's a legend in his own bathroom.
cutbait
11-06-2013, 11:56 AM
What the hell? Have you ever heard of the City of Bell? They made a huge profit. Who are you joking. Not all "die-hard" type fishermen are idiots. By the way, I think the tone of your posts are very condescending. The lake needs a fish dock and a cleaning station. Not that big a deal. Just ask Kwin.
City of Bells profits were Illegal and I believe folks went to jail. Or going to.
Shows how much you know about things and saddens me your vote cancels mine out
cutbait
11-06-2013, 11:57 AM
you should all listen to cutbait. After all, he's a legend in his own bathroom.
Hater or stalker?
etucker1959
11-06-2013, 01:19 PM
Hater or stalker?
Can he be both????? lol
cutbait
11-06-2013, 01:30 PM
Can he be both????? lol
Good point
DarkShadow
11-06-2013, 04:16 PM
Hater or stalker?
I'd go with old boyfriend.
HawgZWylde
11-06-2013, 04:30 PM
I'd go with old boyfriend.
Are you jealous or something?