Obamacare Nightmare ! Part 2

[DockRat]

Hopefully this thread will make it ?
ObamaCare House of Horrors: Healthcare.Gov Hit with Avalanche of Angry Facebook Comments.

Obamacare Facebook page is getting hammered.

Read some of the comments here;

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/84252-obamacare-house-horrors-healthcare-gov-hit-avalanche-angry-facebook-comments/

This morning the page was up, NOW IT"S DOWN ????

So many negative comments and now this ??? Did the FB page backfire ?

We are continuing to experience tremendous demand in signing up for coverage on www.HealthCare.gov. Extra engineers are working around the clock to meet the demand. We have been able to cut the wait times by one-third, getting more people into the application and plan shopping process. We appreciate your patience and look forward to you getting quality, affordable coverage like Kathy did last night: http://hlthc.re/1buqPFb
Obamacare glitches: Illinois resident says 'tell people to just keep trying'
Kathy Kanak on Wednesday night laid to rest fears that no one in Illinois was able to sign up for new health insurance plans made available a day earlier under the Affordable Care Act. After...
articles.chicagotribune.com

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=565848800131026&id=130163127032931&_rdr#565868990129007

[DockRat]

No Sunday Mass for our military ?
http://dailycaller.c...uring-shutdown/

Priests threatened with arrest if they minister to military during shutdown.
Posted By Alex Pappas On 3:45 PM 10/04/2013

In a stunning development, some military priests are facing arrest if they celebrate mass or practice their faith on military bases during the federal government shutdown.
“With the government shutdown, many [government service] and contract priests who minister to Catholics on military bases worldwide are not permitted to work – not even to volunteer,” wrote John Schlageter, the general counsel for the Archdiocese for the Military Services USA, in an op-ed this week. “During the shutdown, it is illegal for them to minister on base and they risk being arrested if they attempt to do so.”

According to its website, the Archdiocese for the Military Services “provides the Catholic Church’s full range of pastoral ministries and spiritual services to those in the United States Armed Forces.”

In his piece, Schlageter worries about this restriction as Sunday nears. “If the government shutdown continues through the weekend, there will be no Catholic priest to celebrate Mass this Sunday in the chapels at some U.S. military installations where non-active-duty priests serve as government contractors,” he wrote.
Because of the lack of active-duty Catholic chaplains, the military relies on hiring civilian priests to serve as government service and contract ministers. Those civilian priests are not allowed on the bases during a shutdown, Schlageter wrote.

One Republican lawmaker on the House Intelligence Committee told The Daily Caller on Friday that this “crosses a constitutional line.”

“The constitutional rights of those who put their lives on the line for this nation do not end with a government slowdown,” Kansas Rep. Mike Pompeo, a graduate of West Point and an Army veteran, said in a Friday statement. ”It is completely irresponsible for the president to turn his back on every American’s First Amendment rights by furloughing military contract clergy.”

Added Pompeo: “The President’s strategy during the slowdown, just as during the sequestration, is to create as much pain as possible. However, this action crosses a constitutional line of obstructing every U.S. service member’s ability to practice his or her religion.”

[DarkShadow]

You learned how to count to 7 yet, DR?

Kinda hard to count the provisions, when you can barely count to 7.

Start with something simple:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4w5sqP13AsU/TF0N3e_TvXI/AAAAAAAAGiQ/bATtcyx42x8/s320/Sesame+count.JPG

[Stormcrow]

Whatever happened to the other obama nightmare thread?

[etucker1959]

Not very exciting!!!!! Let me you check on that DVL thread, that ones hilarious.

[HawgZWylde]

Not very exciting!!!!! Let me you check on that DVL thread, that ones hilarious.

You find it hilarious that our finest may have been used in the commission of a fraudulent act? Indeed, quite telling tucky...

[etucker1959]

You finds it hilarious that our finest may have been used in the commission of a fraudulent act? Indeed, quite telling tucky...
Do you really want to go there????? It's one thing for you and me to take the opposite side of current events. Hash it out and let the silent viewers have a better understanding of current events. That other thread, come on!!!!!! More peoples reputation has been soiled, like no other thread that I have ever read on FNN.

[DockRat]

Do you really want to go there?????

OK, Wait till you see how much money Obamacare will cost.

See what happens when Liberals finally discover the real ObamaCare

:Head Bang: :Head Bang: :Head Bang: :Head Bang: :Head Bang: :Head Bang: :Head Bang: :Head Bang: :Head Bang:



Taken from https://www.facebook.../Healthcare.gov…

Marketa Winfield: “I have been a long-time Obama supporter, but it seems that that the only people who will be able to afford this are those who don’t need it. There is something wrong here, folks.”

Carole http://iqd.me/l/11 Ri DeCarlo: “I have had my own private policy that I will not be able to afford to keep once the rates triple per the letter I received from Humana. I’m not eligible for ‘affordable’ coverage on the exchange, don’t qualify for subsidy. I am living, documented proof this is system will not work for me. No propaganda here.”

Patti Gray: “So, these ‘free’ mammograms are costing me triple the premium costs, plus a HUGE new deductible and co-pay. Thanks Obamacare!!!”

Cheryll Quail Feather Hart: “Where the heck is the AFFORDABLE part of this???? $17, 000.00 per YEAR to insure my family of 4???? And no help from subsidies because my work offers ME and, yes, only ME, coverage????”

Jenn Tate: “Payments are more than we can afford. Sorry, my family needs to eat and keep a roof over our heads all year, not just at tax refund time.”

Crystal Riggle Deans: “So, I have a family of five and we live 83 percent below the poverty line. We will be charged over $1,000 per month for insurance, and we are looking at $12,700 in out-of-pocket expenses, NOT including premiums. Hahaha, I haven’t even paid my rent this month because we couldn’t afford it. We have no car payments, no cable, no cell phones. We are not on welfare or food stamps.”

Irene Waldron: “My daughter must pay $1,272 a year for an Obamcare policy with a $5,000-a-year deductible plan, or be hounded by the IRS to pay the penalty. She does not have an extra $200 a year, let alone $1,272. What an incredible scam. Obama lied.

Lynn Watson: “I just got a call from a friend in Texas. She is single and 62 years old. The plan she got information on will cost her $450.00 a month with $6,000.00 deductible. This is the silver plan. You call this the affordable health care bill.”

Sha Sha Corbley: “Sticker shock is a huge understatement. We currently pay $1,158 PER MONTH for a personal policy. Closest choice to what we have now but not as good being offered in 2014, will cost us $1,937 PER MONTH, and we don’t qualify for any subsidy.”

[DEVOREFLYER]

Sound's like dem chicken's are comin' home to roost. How y'all like your chicken roasted, fried, BBQ or maybe rotisserie style? I think y'all just got chicken fingers in your future like in flippin' ya da bird. lol

[HawgZWylde]

Do you really want to go there????? It's one thing for you and me to take the opposite side of current events. Hash it out and let the silent viewers have a better understanding of current events. That other thread, come on!!!!!! More peoples reputation has been soiled, like no other thread that I have ever read on FNN.

Tucky, one, you weren't there, I was. You know nothing about what happened at that event, or the other two events, I do. If peoples reputations were soiled then so be it. Whether any laws were broken will be up to lawyers and judges to decide. But from what I've seen, it looks like some were. Whether it was intentional or not, the courts will decide. Good people were hurt by actions of others at that and the prior two events which led to the exposure of either big mistakes being made, or fraud, cheating, and trademark violations being perpetuated, Either way, it needed to be fixed. But to use a very serious incident for humor purposes is pretty disturbing. The SKC events are charitable events for children and our finest, you know, the very ones who lay their lives on the line that allows you to spew your leftist rhetoric day in and day out. The very ones you have shown your complete lack of support and disdain for with your endless cries for cutting back funding for the military.

Those threads needed to happen. Whether they were done correctly or not is not for me to decide, but I stand by the decision to expose the problems and possible wrongs that were occurring. And if our children and our finest were being used for fraudulent financial gain, those perpetrators must go down. And if they were just honest mistakes, then hopefully the event can move on and continue for years to come and be a much better event for all involved. Lots of great people are involved and go to this and deserve a totally honest and clean event...

[etucker1959]

Tucky, one, you weren't there, I was. You know nothing about what happened at that event, or the other two events, I do. If peoples reputations were soiled then so be it. Whether any laws were broken will be up to lawyers and judges to decide. But from what I've seen, it looks like some were. Whether it was intentional or not, the courts will decide. Good people were hurt by actions of others at that and the prior two events which led to the exposure of either big mistakes being made, or fraud, cheating, and trademark violations being perpetuated, Either way, it needed to be fixed. But to use a very serious incident for humor purposes is pretty disturbing. The SKC events are charitable events for children and our finest, you know, the very ones who lay their lives on the line that allows you to spew your leftist rhetoric day in and day out. The very ones you have shown your complete lack of support and disdain for with your endless cries for cutting back funding for the military.

Those threads needed to happen. Whether they were done correctly or not is not for me to decide, but I stand by the decision to expose the problems and possible wrongs that were occurring. And if our children and our finest were being used for fraudulent financial gain, those perpetrators must go down. And if they were just honest mistakes, then hopefully the event can move on and continue for years to come and be a much better event for all involved. Lots of great people are involved and go to this and deserve a totally honest and clean event...

So you want to go there?????? I thought long and hard about it, to come up with a way to best explain my thoughts and NOT feed the fire that has already been built. My comments are not about WHAT HAPPENED, but how it was handled.

I think retelling of a famous WW2 story best illustrates my point. This is the story of the PT 109 skippered by John F. Kennedy. (as in President Kennedy) JFK was skippering his boat the PT 109 on a night time patrol when disaster struck, his boat was rammed and cut in half by a Japanese destroyer. Several of his men were wounded and by his sheer bravery in handling the rescue operation, he became a national hero. Some would argue, that he deserved to have been court martialed for negligence for losing his boat. By how he handled himself when disaster struck, exemplifies how a naval officer should behave under a duress situation. He then rode his actions, "all the way to the WHITE HOUSE"!!!!!!

I'm not going to pick apart what was done incorrectly, others had already done that. Though it did make for some pretty fun reading.

[DockRat]

though it did make for some pretty fun reading.

x2..............

[DockRat]

A Constitutional Attorney Has Read --- OBAMACARE (His legal opinion follows!) A quick read From: Mike Cahill, (Retired Constitutional Lawyer).

Snopes says this is correctly attributed… http://www.snopes.co...ox/connelly.asp

A retired Constitutional lawyer has read the entire proposed health care bill.

The Truth About the Health Care Bill - Michael Connelly, (Retired Constitutional Attorney)

Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal health care direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesn't stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution." If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest theyconsult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
(Constitutional Law Instructor)
Carrollton , Texas

[etucker1959]

A Constitutional Attorney Has Read --- OBAMACARE (His legal opinion follows!) A quick read From: Mike Cahill, (Retired Constitutional Lawyer).

Snopes says this is correctly attributed… http://www.snopes.co...ox/connelly.asp

A retired Constitutional lawyer has read the entire proposed health care bill.

The Truth About the Health Care Bill - Michael Connelly, (Retired Constitutional Attorney)

Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal health care direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesn't stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution." If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest theyconsult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
(Constitutional Law Instructor)
Carrollton , Texas

I hope what he said is not all true. Only time will tell, but the fact he came from Texas, gives us a glimmer of hope that he looked at it from a standpoint of fog colored glasses.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Frenchy you can add this to your opin of Paul Ryan and Social Security changes. "The Congress is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 3 of Article I, Section 9 of the United States Constitution".

It's a pity you know so little about Law and Finance, you don't know what your missing.

[DockRat]

I hope what he said is not all true.

Etuck, have you read the 157 Obamacare plans and decided which one is good fit for you ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msh-_Rr06Cw

[etucker1959]

Etuck, have you read the 157 Obamacare plans and decided which one is good fit for you ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msh-_Rr06Cw

I'm waiting for the riff raff to go first, then I'll take a look.

[etucker1959]

Frenchy you can add this to your opin of Paul Ryan and Social Security changes. "The Congress is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 3 of Article I, Section 9 of the United States Constitution".

It's a pity you know so little about Law and Finance, you don't know what your missing.

Why don't you explain this too me. When the Republicans keep talking about reducing entitlements, what do they want to reduce????? Or are they just talking out of their arse????

[DEVOREFLYER]

You have been told several times in my posts and are not paying attention which is the norm for Libs. Libs only hear what they want to hear, it's called selective hearing. They select only what they want to hear and tune all else out as NOISE!!!

Any changes/reductions would ONLY pertain to FUTURE enrollee's and not PRESENT recipients. Ya got it now, well do ya?

[etucker1959]

You have been told several times in my posts and are not paying attention which is the norm for Libs. Libs only hear what they want to hear, it's called selective hearing. They select only what they want to hear and tune all else out as NOISE!!!

Any changes/reductions would ONLY pertain to FUTURE enrollee's and not PRESENT recipients. Ya got it now, well do ya?

I got that!!!! But the Hawgee's of the world, keep saying to help reduce the deficit you must reduce entitlements big time. If you can't reduce anyone's entitlement who is already getting one, only new enrollees. Someone is a moron and it's not me.!!!!!!! I don't know why Hawgee doesn't swoop in here and set us straight.

[DEVOREFLYER]

The 800 lb Gorilla in the room of every City, County, State and Nationally is the "UNDER FUNDED or UNFUNDED liabilities (Social Security, Medicare and Gov Pensions, City, State, County and Teacher Pensions and Benefits). These unfunded liabilities are not part of the deficit you see talked about and most of the public are ignorant of that fact. The unfunded liabilities DWARF the budget deficit by a factor of 3 to 5 times or more. IT"S ALL ABOUT THE "UNFUNDED FUTURE LIABILITY" that will blow everything up!!!!! Don't you get it reducing FUTURE or eliminating FUTURE entitlements is what they are talking about. Jeeze you believe all that lib "Granny over the cliff s***" don't you, say it you believe it, don't you. Brain dead Liberal sheep, baa, baa, baa, baa!!!!!!! IT is the FUTURE unfunded liability that is blowing up City, County and State deficits and will blow up the US also if not corrected.

Haven't you read or comprehended that Social Security and Medicare is presently solvent but will run out in the future. It's the FUTURE that's the problem. Perhaps you have missed some of the battles in Cities and States that are fighting the unions over future retirement payouts. In some concessions have been made regarding new hires, it's a start and in some cases may be enough to save solvency in others it's not enough and they are just kicking the can down the road. Sooner or later they are going to run out of road!!!

[HawgZWylde]

I got that!!!! But the Hawgee's of the world, keep saying to help reduce the deficit you must reduce entitlements big time. If you can't reduce anyone's entitlement who is already getting one, only new enrollees. Someone is a moron and it's not me.!!!!!!! I don't know why Hawgee doesn't swoop in here and set us straight.

He still don't get it Dev. So now he's calling "someone" a "moron".

Pssst, hey tucky, guess what would be the biggest cut to entitlements, JOBS! Oh isn't that a novel idea? What is the single biggest reason employers aren't hiring next to a crap economy? OBOZOCARE! How about that eh tucky? How about eliminate government worker taxpayer (government) funded pensions? They get paid well, they haven't taken the hit like the private sector continues to suffer, let them save for their own retirement like the rest of us do. Another novel idea eh tucky? Reduce the government workers paid holidays to the 5 majors like everybody else has. Here in Cali, a lot of state workers get 15 paid holidays. Do the math, that's a big number. Restructure medicare and social security, not eliminate, restructure them and mandate their funding is off limits to any re-appropriation. If we don't fix it, it won't be there for our kids. Plenty more to go but I don't waste my time on someone who's not going to listen no matter what is said. Been there done that with you...

"Hawgee's of the world"? Ah tucky, are you getting annoyed?

Oh, and by the way, "set US straight". Who is us? From what I've read around here, pretty much everyone else "gets it", except a few of you...

[HawgZWylde]

Dr. Carson's got it right;

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) — Dr. Ben Carson slammed President Barack Obama’s signature health care during his speech at the Value Voter’s Summit Friday.

“Obamacare is really, I think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery,” Carson declared. “It is slavery in a way because it is making all of us subservient to the government.”

Carson said the implementation of the Affordable Care Act was never about health care, only control.

“That’s why when this administration took office it didn’t matter that the country was going off the cliff economically. All forces were directed toward getting this legislation passed,” Carson said.

Carson also made a comparison between Obama’s health care law to former Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin.

“Vladimir Lenin, one of the fathers of socialism and communism, said that socialized medicine is the keystone to the establishment of a socialist state,” Carson stated.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/11/dr-carson-obamacare-the-worst-thing-that-has-happened-since-slavery/

[etucker1959]

He still don't get it Dev. So now he's calling "someone" a "moron".

Pssst, hey tucky, guess what would be the biggest cut to entitlements, JOBS! Oh isn't that a novel idea? What is the single biggest reason employers aren't hiring next to a crap economy? OBOZOCARE! How about that eh tucky? How about eliminate government worker taxpayer (government) funded pensions? They get paid well, they haven't taken the hit like the private sector continues to suffer, let them save for their own retirement like the rest of us do. Another novel idea eh tucky? Reduce the government workers paid holidays to the 5 majors like everybody else has. Here in Cali, a lot of state workers get 15 paid holidays. Do the math, that's a big number. Restructure medicare and social security, not eliminate, restructure them and mandate their funding is off limits to any re-appropriation. If we don't fix it, it won't be there for our kids. Plenty more to go but I don't waste my time on someone who's not going to listen no matter what is said. Been there done that with you...

"Hawgee's of the world"? Ah tucky, are you getting annoyed?

Oh, and by the way, "set US straight". Who is us? From what I've read around here, pretty much everyone else "gets it", except a few of you...


OK, now it's DEV turn!!!!! Is it against the law to restructure Medicare and Social Security as HawZee suggested??????

[etucker1959]

Dr. Carson's got it right;

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) — Dr. Ben Carson slammed President Barack Obama’s signature health care during his speech at the Value Voter’s Summit Friday.

“Obamacare is really, I think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery,” Carson declared. “It is slavery in a way because it is making all of us subservient to the government.”

Carson said the implementation of the Affordable Care Act was never about health care, only control.

“That’s why when this administration took office it didn’t matter that the country was going off the cliff economically. All forces were directed toward getting this legislation passed,” Carson said.

Carson also made a comparison between Obama’s health care law to former Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin.

“Vladimir Lenin, one of the fathers of socialism and communism, said that socialized medicine is the keystone to the establishment of a socialist state,” Carson stated.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/11/dr-carson-obamacare-the-worst-thing-that-has-happened-since-slavery/

You like quotes. George Washington said, "A political party should never wage war against it's own government." Hear that Tea Party!!!!!!!!!!

[etucker1959]

The 800 lb Gorilla in the room of every City, County, State and Nationally is the "UNDER FUNDED or UNFUNDED liabilities (Social Security, Medicare and Gov Pensions, City, State, County and Teacher Pensions and Benefits). These unfunded liabilities are not part of the deficit you see talked about and most of the public are ignorant of that fact. The unfunded liabilities DWARF the budget deficit by a factor of 3 to 5 times or more. IT"S ALL ABOUT THE "UNFUNDED FUTURE LIABILITY" that will blow everything up!!!!! Don't you get it reducing FUTURE or eliminating FUTURE entitlements is what they are talking about. Jeeze you believe all that lib "Granny over the cliff s***" don't you, say it you believe it, don't you. Brain dead Liberal sheep, baa, baa, baa, baa!!!!!!! IT is the FUTURE unfunded liability that is blowing up City, County and State deficits and will blow up the US also if not corrected.

Haven't you read or comprehended that Social Security and Medicare is presently solvent but will run out in the future. It's the FUTURE that's the problem. Perhaps you have missed some of the battles in Cities and States that are fighting the unions over future retirement payouts. In some concessions have been made regarding new hires, it's a start and in some cases may be enough to save solvency in others it's not enough and they are just kicking the can down the road. Sooner or later they are going to run out of road!!!

Can't we fix SS by raising the age limits, add another point in the payroll deduction and take away the cap. Medicare you got me on that one.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Can't we fix SS by raising the age limits, add another point in the payroll deduction and take away the cap. Medicare you got me on that one.

My oh my I think I see a slight glimmer in your dim bulb. Damn where have you been, did you just wake up from a drunken stupor or is it selective memory? If you go back to the election Paul Ryan was advocating just that among other tweeks to Social Security and Medicare. And if you were listening he was talking about future enrollees only and that's when the lying bastard Libs started the "Throw Granny off the cliff", lying bastards. 0bummer Care has thrown a wrench into Medicare reform as it has to the entire Medical care issues in this country. Take the lobbyists and lawyers out of Medicine and costs would go down exponentially.

The last 15 years of my working life was spent as a litigation consultant and expert witness and I can tell you that the legal system in this country is corrupt and is nothing less than legal EXTORTION. Major tort reform should be the number one thing to target to correct a number of issues in this country. You would be stunned to know the cost to the consumers of goods and services in this country caused by lawyers. I have stories that would set your hair on fire and have you rioting in the street.

Here are some facts to chew on: 96% of ALL of the lawsuits in the World are filed in the USA. 25% of ALL Californians with income over $50,000 will be sued in their lifetime, EVERY business in California will be sued during it’s lifetime, some many times. More Lawyers graduate from law school than ALL of the Medical, Engineering and Science Majors combined.

[etucker1959]

My oh my I think I see a slight glimmer in your dim bulb. Damn where have you been, did you just wake up from a drunken stupor or is it selective memory? If you go back to the election Paul Ryan was advocating just that among other tweeks to Social Security and Medicare. And if you were listening he was talking about future enrollees only and that's when the lying bastard Libs started the "Throw Granny off the cliff", lying bastards. 0bummer Care has thrown a wrench into Medicare reform as it has to the entire Medical care issues in this country. Take the lobbyists and lawyers out of Medicine and costs would go down exponentially.

The last 15 years of my working life was spent as a litigation consultant and expert witness and I can tell you that the legal system in this country is corrupt and is nothing less than legal EXTORTION. Major tort reform should be the number one thing to target to correct a number of issues in this country. You would be stunned to know the cost to the consumers of goods and services in this country caused by lawyers. I have stories that would set your hair on fire and have you rioting in the street.

Here are some facts to chew on: 96% of ALL of the lawsuits in the World are filed in the USA. 25% of ALL Californians with income over $50,000 will be sued in their lifetime, EVERY business in California will be sued during it’s lifetime, some many times. More Lawyers graduate from law school than ALL of the Medical, Engineering and Science Majors combined.

I was lucky in the 20 years I owned my own business, I never got sued. One of the reasons why, I tried to take care of things as soon as they happened and always make my clients happy.

[DockRat]

DEMOCRATS TO AMERICA: WE OWN THE GOVERNMENT!
Ann Coulter
By Ann Coulter October 9, 2013 6:30 PM

In the current fight over the government shutdown, Republicans are simply representing the views of the American people.

Americans didn't ask for Obamacare, they don't want it, but now their insurance premiums are going through the roof, their doctors aren't accepting it, and their employers are moving them into part-time work -- or firing them -- to avoid the law's mandates.

Contrary to Obama's promises, it turns out: You can't keep your doctor, you can't keep your insurance -- you can't even keep your job. In other words, it's a typical government program, but this one wrecks your health care.

Also, the president did raise taxes on the middle class in defiance of his well-worn campaign promise not to. Indeed, Obamacare is the largest tax hike in U.S. history.

Among the other changes effected by this law are:

-- Obamacare will allow insurers to charge 50 percent higher premiums for smokers, but prohibits insurers from increasing premiums for those with HIV/AIDS.

-- Nationally, Obamacare will increase men's individual insurance premiums by an average of 99 percent and women's by 62 percent. In North Carolina, for example, individual insurance premiums will triple for women and quadruple for men.

-- Health plans valued at $27,500 or more for a family of four will be taxed at a rate of 40 percent.

-- No doctors who went to an American medical school will be accepting Obamacare.

-- A 62-year-old man earning $46,000 a year is entitled to a $7,836 government tax credit to buy health insurance. But if he earns an extra $22 in income, he loses the entire $7,836 credit. He will have more take-home pay by earning $46,000 than if he earns $55,000. (If he's lucky, he already works for one of the companies forced by Obamacare to reduce employees' hours!)

-- Merely to be eligible for millions of dollars in grants from the federal government under Obamacare, education and training programs are required to meet racial, ethnic, gender, linguistic and sexual orientation quotas. That's going to make health care MUCH better!

-- Obamacare is turning America into a part-time nation. According to a recent report by economist John Lott, 97 percent of all jobs added to the economy so far this year have been part-time jobs. Ninety-seven percent!

-- Obamacare is such a disaster that the people who wrote it refuse to live under it themselves. That's right, Congress won a waiver from Obamacare.

Responding to the people's will, House Republicans first voted to fund all of government -- except Obamacare. Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it.

Then the Republicans voted to fully fund the government, but merely delay the implementation of Obamacare for one year. Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it.

Finally, the Republicans voted to fully fund the government, but added a requirement that everyone live under Obamacare. No more special waivers for Congress and their staff, and no waivers for big business without the same waivers for individuals.

Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it. So as you can see, Republicans are the big holdup here.

A longtime Democratic operative, Karen Finney, explained the Democrats' intransigence on MSNBC to a delighted Joan Walsh (aka the most easily fooled person on TV) by comparing House Republicans to a teenager trying to borrow his mother's car. "No, I'm not negotiating!" Mother says. "It's MY CAR!"

This wasn't a stupid slip of the tongue that other Democrats quickly rejected. Finney had used the exact same metaphor to a panel of highly agreeable MSNBC guests the day before. (MSNBC books no other kind of guest.)

The left thinks the government is their car and the people's representatives are obstreperous teenagers trying to borrow the government. Which belongs to Democrats.

That's not how the Constitution views the House of Representatives. To the contrary, the House is considered most reflective of the people's will because its members are elected every two years.

As a matter of fact, the Republicans who mistakenly assume they have something to do with running the government represent most of the people who pay taxes to run it. So it's more like a teenager who is making the car payments, maintaining the car insurance and taking responsibility for registering the car being told: "It's not your car."

But the Democrats refuse to even negotiate. It's their government -- and if you Republicans think you're going out dressed like that, you've got another thing coming! Needless to say, they absolutely will not consider the Republicans' demand that Democrats merely live under Obamacare themselves.

Instead, Democrats say "the Koch brothers" are behind the effort to defund Obamacare.

They say Republicans are trying to "burn the whole house down" (Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz); "have lost their minds" (Sen. Harry Reid); are trying to negotiate "with a bomb strapped to their chest" (senior White House adviser Dan Pfeiffer); are "legislative arsonists" (Rep. Nancy Pelosi); and are engaging in "blatant extortion" (White House press secretary Jay Carney).

The MSNBC crowd calls Republicans "arsonists" every 15 minutes. They ought to check with fellow MSNBC host Al Sharpton. He knows his arsonists! In 1995, Sharpton whipped up a mob outside the Jewish-owned Freddy's Fashion Mart with an anti-Semitic speech. Sometime later, a member of the mob torched the store, killing seven Hispanic employees.

Every single Democrat in the country uses the exact same talking point: We "refuse to negotiate with a gun being held to our head."

Which means that the Democrats will engage in no negotiation at all -- not now, not ever. House Republicans have already passed three-dozen bills defunding, or otherwise modifying, Obamacare. Senate Democrats and liberal commentators had a good laugh at Republicans for passing them. Now they're paying attention!

If you are in the minority of Americans not already unalterably opposed to Obamacare, keep in mind that the only reason the government is shut down right now is that Democrats refuse to fund the government if they are required to live under Obamacare.

That's how good it is!

COPYRIGHT 2013 ANN COULTER

[DEVOREFLYER]

Hey them Libs got the dial stuck on MSNBC. Misery and misfits love company I guess. lol

[seal]

Hey them Libs got the dial stuck on MSNBC. Misery and misfits love company I guess. lol

Hey Devore I was on the wrong thread, lol!

[DEVOREFLYER]

Hey Devore I was on the wrong thread, lol!

Ya sometimes it's a little confusing, more so after two fingers of whisky. Is it 5 o'clock yet?

[etucker1959]

DEMOCRATS TO AMERICA: WE OWN THE GOVERNMENT!
Ann Coulter
By Ann Coulter October 9, 2013 6:30 PM

In the current fight over the government shutdown, Republicans are simply representing the views of the American people.

Americans didn't ask for Obamacare, they don't want it, but now their insurance premiums are going through the roof, their doctors aren't accepting it, and their employers are moving them into part-time work -- or firing them -- to avoid the law's mandates.

Contrary to Obama's promises, it turns out: You can't keep your doctor, you can't keep your insurance -- you can't even keep your job. In other words, it's a typical government program, but this one wrecks your health care.

Also, the president did raise taxes on the middle class in defiance of his well-worn campaign promise not to. Indeed, Obamacare is the largest tax hike in U.S. history.

Among the other changes effected by this law are:

-- Obamacare will allow insurers to charge 50 percent higher premiums for smokers, but prohibits insurers from increasing premiums for those with HIV/AIDS.

-- Nationally, Obamacare will increase men's individual insurance premiums by an average of 99 percent and women's by 62 percent. In North Carolina, for example, individual insurance premiums will triple for women and quadruple for men.

-- Health plans valued at $27,500 or more for a family of four will be taxed at a rate of 40 percent.

-- No doctors who went to an American medical school will be accepting Obamacare.

-- A 62-year-old man earning $46,000 a year is entitled to a $7,836 government tax credit to buy health insurance. But if he earns an extra $22 in income, he loses the entire $7,836 credit. He will have more take-home pay by earning $46,000 than if he earns $55,000. (If he's lucky, he already works for one of the companies forced by Obamacare to reduce employees' hours!)

-- Merely to be eligible for millions of dollars in grants from the federal government under Obamacare, education and training programs are required to meet racial, ethnic, gender, linguistic and sexual orientation quotas. That's going to make health care MUCH better!

-- Obamacare is turning America into a part-time nation. According to a recent report by economist John Lott, 97 percent of all jobs added to the economy so far this year have been part-time jobs. Ninety-seven percent!

-- Obamacare is such a disaster that the people who wrote it refuse to live under it themselves. That's right, Congress won a waiver from Obamacare.

Responding to the people's will, House Republicans first voted to fund all of government -- except Obamacare. Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it.

Then the Republicans voted to fully fund the government, but merely delay the implementation of Obamacare for one year. Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it.

Finally, the Republicans voted to fully fund the government, but added a requirement that everyone live under Obamacare. No more special waivers for Congress and their staff, and no waivers for big business without the same waivers for individuals.

Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it. So as you can see, Republicans are the big holdup here.

A longtime Democratic operative, Karen Finney, explained the Democrats' intransigence on MSNBC to a delighted Joan Walsh (aka the most easily fooled person on TV) by comparing House Republicans to a teenager trying to borrow his mother's car. "No, I'm not negotiating!" Mother says. "It's MY CAR!"

This wasn't a stupid slip of the tongue that other Democrats quickly rejected. Finney had used the exact same metaphor to a panel of highly agreeable MSNBC guests the day before. (MSNBC books no other kind of guest.)

The left thinks the government is their car and the people's representatives are obstreperous teenagers trying to borrow the government. Which belongs to Democrats.

That's not how the Constitution views the House of Representatives. To the contrary, the House is considered most reflective of the people's will because its members are elected every two years.

As a matter of fact, the Republicans who mistakenly assume they have something to do with running the government represent most of the people who pay taxes to run it. So it's more like a teenager who is making the car payments, maintaining the car insurance and taking responsibility for registering the car being told: "It's not your car."

But the Democrats refuse to even negotiate. It's their government -- and if you Republicans think you're going out dressed like that, you've got another thing coming! Needless to say, they absolutely will not consider the Republicans' demand that Democrats merely live under Obamacare themselves.

Instead, Democrats say "the Koch brothers" are behind the effort to defund Obamacare.

They say Republicans are trying to "burn the whole house down" (Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz); "have lost their minds" (Sen. Harry Reid); are trying to negotiate "with a bomb strapped to their chest" (senior White House adviser Dan Pfeiffer); are "legislative arsonists" (Rep. Nancy Pelosi); and are engaging in "blatant extortion" (White House press secretary Jay Carney).

The MSNBC crowd calls Republicans "arsonists" every 15 minutes. They ought to check with fellow MSNBC host Al Sharpton. He knows his arsonists! In 1995, Sharpton whipped up a mob outside the Jewish-owned Freddy's Fashion Mart with an anti-Semitic speech. Sometime later, a member of the mob torched the store, killing seven Hispanic employees.

Every single Democrat in the country uses the exact same talking point: We "refuse to negotiate with a gun being held to our head."

Which means that the Democrats will engage in no negotiation at all -- not now, not ever. House Republicans have already passed three-dozen bills defunding, or otherwise modifying, Obamacare. Senate Democrats and liberal commentators had a good laugh at Republicans for passing them. Now they're paying attention!

If you are in the minority of Americans not already unalterably opposed to Obamacare, keep in mind that the only reason the government is shut down right now is that Democrats refuse to fund the government if they are required to live under Obamacare.

That's how good it is!

COPYRIGHT 2013 ANN COULTER
I don't like her politics, but I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers.

[etucker1959]

Hey them Libs got the dial stuck on MSNBC. Misery and misfits love company I guess. lol
Hey, I watch both Fox and MSNBC. If you could ever find an impartial judge and had them watch both Fox and MSNBC on the same day. Covering the same event, then ask them which one reported it the fairest. I would bet money MSNBC would win.

[etucker1959]

Hey, I watch both Fox and MSNBC. If you could ever find an impartial judge and had them watch both Fox and MSNBC on the same day. Covering the same event, then ask them which one reported it the fairest. I would bet money MSNBC would win. Anyone care to take me up on that bet?

[DEVOREFLYER]

It is awfully early to be that drunk or are you doin' that silly stuff again?

[TroutOnly]

D/f he is either drunk or insane,,,,,,,,,,,or both,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[etucker1959]

It is awfully early to be that drunk or are you doin' that silly stuff again?

Dev, I think that is a provable point!!!!! Here is my thoughts, take two people who are willingly to invest $400 each. Put $300 each in a pot for the winner. Hire an unbiased judge and pay him $200 to watch Fox and MSNBC with the players present. Pick a good news day, such as the day after we go over the Cliff on the debt ceiling. At the end of the day, have the judge declare which news organization covered the events more accurately and fairly. Simple if you think about it!!!!!!!!!

[DEVOREFLYER]

Yes indeed you are SIMPLE real SIMPLE, keep talkin' you just keep lookin' more SIMPLE. Is SIMPLE minded an inherited trait or did you just get there by yourself. Simply amazin' you are, you are simply amazin'.

[etucker1959]

Yes indeed you are SIMPLE real SIMPLE, keep talkin' you just keep lookin' more SIMPLE. Is SIMPLE minded an inherited trait or did you just get there by yourself. Simply amazin' you are, you are simply amazin'.

Hey, I'm willingly to put my MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS!!!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone else say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember that old expression, "TALK IS CHEAP"!!!!!!!!! I'm going to score myself 2 points on today's comments. lol

[HawgZWylde]

Hey, I'm willingly to put my MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS!!!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone else say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember that old expression, "TALK IS CHEAP"!!!!!!!!! I'm going to score myself 2 points on today's comments. lol

Bwahaha, ok tucker when you find a Judge willing to do your little experiment let us know. Hey I know, you could start with Justice Roberts, he's known for his "impartiality". Maybe he'd be willing eh tucker?

[DEVOREFLYER]

How about some money on that debate thing you seem to have glossed over and passed on. I got 2 Cents for your opinion as that's about all it's worth. Where's your rebuttal to my lengthy debt/financial posts you MBA FRAUD!!!!!

[DockRat]

McAffee tells what a improper Obamacare website is and a Hackers Haven. :LOL:
Anybody sign up yet :LOL:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvD0BmgNPV4&feature=player_embedded

[DockRat]

Student gets in trouble for passing out copies of the Constitution to his fellow students on Constitution Day. :LOL:
OMG do we live on a Commi country now ? :Rolls Eyes:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EosaP99J3Z8&feature=player_embedded

Student Ordered to Stop Handing Out Constitution Files Lawsuit. :Applause:
Posted on 12 October, 2013

A student who was ordered by college administrators to stop handing out copies of the Constitution on campus—on Constitution Day—filed suit today in federal court. Modesto Junior College (MJC) student and Army veteran Robert Van Tuinen is suing the Yosemite Community College District and MJC administrators for violating his First Amendment rights. Van Tuinen is represented by the law firm of Davis Wright Tremaine and is assisted by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE).

“Last month, Robert Van Tuinen caught on camera administrators who were so unfamiliar with the basic principles of free speech that they prevented him from passing out the Constitution to his fellow students on Constitution Day,” said FIRE President Greg Lukianoff. “Even in the face of national shock and outrage, the college has failed to reform its absurd ‘free speech zone.’ Now it will have to defend that policy in federal court.”

MJC made national news when on September 17 (the anniversary of the U.S. Constitution’s signing) it prevented Van Tuinen from handing out copies of the U.S. Constitution in a grassy area by the student center. As captured in a video taken by Van Tuinen, a campus police officer informed him that he could not pass out any materials without first registering with the student development office. After unsuccessfully attempting to convince the officer that this would violate his right to free speech, Van Tuinen went into the student center at the officer’s request.

After further speaking with the officer, Van Tuinen then spoke with MJC administrator Christine Serrano, who told him that he could only pass out literature inside the “free speech area,” which she informed him was “in front of the student center, in that little cement area.” Asking for an application and a copy of his student ID, Serrano told Van Tuinen that she had “two people on campus right now, so you’d have to wait until either the 20th, 27th, or you can go into October.” When Van Tuinen continued to protest, Serrano told him to make an appointment to meet with Vice President of Student Services Brenda Thames so that she could further explain to him “what the time, place, and manner is.”

In response to public outrage (including more than 150,000 views of the video of the college’s censorship on YouTube), MJC President Jill Stearns issued a statement about the incident claiming that “students may distribute printed material on campus in areas generally available to students and the community as long as they do not disrupt the orderly operation of the college.” However, this statement is in direct conflict with the college’s actual procedures—procedures that are seen being enforced in the video and that Stearns only promised to “evaluate.”

The complaint’s multiple counts charge the community college district with violating Van Tuinen’s free speech rights under the First Amendment, both as the rules were applied to him and as written on their face. It also charges the district with violating the right to free speech guaranteed in the California Constitution and with failing adequately to train its employees to respect students’ right to free speech. Van Tuinen is requesting an injunction prohibiting the college from enforcing its speech code as well as monetary damages to be determined by the court.

“Constitutional law can get pretty complicated at times. This is not one of those times,” said FIRE Senior Vice President Robert Shibley. “As FIRE has said from the beginning, every person at Modesto Junior College responsible for enforcing this policy should have known better. The fact that Modesto’s policy was not immediately abandoned when its shameful results were exposed on video is more evidence that too many college administrators fear freedom of speech—and demonstrates how out of touch they are with an American public that respects the First Amendment.”

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb110/wildchild6822/us_constitution.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/wildchild6822/media/us_constitution.jpg.html)

[etucker1959]

How about some money on that debate thing you seem to have glossed over and passed on. I got 2 Cents for your opinion as that's about all it's worth. Where's your rebuttal to my lengthy debt/financial posts you MBA FRAUD!!!!!

I thought I answered that question. All countries use credit as a tool of their budgets. Since no one wants to tax at the proper level and keep their expenses reasonable. It's all just a HOUSE OF CARDS.

[etucker1959]

Bwahaha, ok tucker when you find a Judge willing to do your little experiment let us know. Hey I know, you could start with Justice Roberts, he's known for his "impartiality". Maybe he'd be willing eh tucker?

I was thinking of someone a little closer to home, such as a FNN member!!!!

[DockRat]

E.T. Williams is POed.
The Doctor of Common Sense.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF0cKPsFuks&feature=player_embedded

[fly addict]

How about some money on that debate thing you seem to have glossed over and passed on. I got 2 Cents for your opinion as that's about all it's worth. Where's your rebuttal to my lengthy debt/financial posts you MBA FRAUD!!!!!

Hey Devorflyer,
You have made lots of good points, but you will never convince the Kool-Aid drinkers. My dad had a good saying, “Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level than beat you with experience.”

[DockRat]

Hey Devorflyer,
You have made lots of good points, but you will never convince the Kool-Aid drinkers. My dad had a good saying, “Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level than beat you with experience.”

:Applause:

[DockRat]

NOW I'M A MSNBC FAN ?

This guy speaks the truth. All you Fox republican followers don't be a hater. This MSNBC clip will change your mind. Keep a open mind. Both parties have corruption and a and one main objective.
POWER.
Time for people to wake up. Take back our country. http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac178/Joey777_album/USFlag2.png (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Joey777_album/media/USFlag2.png.html)

Dylan Ratigan. :Applause:
DR


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkdSi0eHzFE&feature=player_embedded

[DockRat]

More Millions of dollars WASTED on a FAILED website. :LOL:

Dear President Obama, MAN UP, Cancel Obamacare.
Many great leaders in history have had failuers during there term.
Nixon, Carter, Clinton, Bush's. Save Face, do the right thing.

Even MSNBC has realized that you have failed,
We are still waiting for Etucker to fold his cards.

DR, a MSNBC Fan ? WHO KNEW ? :ROFL:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyK-PbrM4Sc

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr300/maltwit/Obama-Failure.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/maltwit/media/Obama-Failure.jpg.html)

[etucker1959]

More Millions of dollars WASTED on a FAILED website. :LOL:

Dear President Obama, MAN UP, Cancel Obamacare.
Many great leaders in history have had failuers during there term.
Nixon, Carter, Clinton, Bush's. Save Face, do the right thing.

Even MSNBC has realized that you have failed,
We are still waiting for Etucker to fold his cards.

DR, a MSNBC Fan ? WHO KNEW ? :ROFL:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyK-PbrM4Sc

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr300/maltwit/Obama-Failure.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/maltwit/media/Obama-Failure.jpg.html)

Hey DocRat, I will admit I'm going to buy some Obama Care insurance. I'm just waiting for the dust to clear before I look into it. Once I do, I will give you a fair assessment of what I find.

I wish some one would have had the queues to take me up on my MSNBC vs Fox preposition. We could of both agreed DocRat would have been a fair and unbiased judge. I would have become $300 richer and DocRat would have made a fair living wage of $200 that day!!! The only loser would have been the poor guy who stuck up for Fox. lol lol lol

[gogreeenz4]

Hey DocRat, I will admit I'm going to buy some Obama Care insurance. I'm just waiting for the dust to clear before I look into it. Once I do

typical liberal make educational lectures about a topic they havent even "looked Into"

No wonder you support barrack....

[DarkShadow]

typical liberal make educational lectures about a topic they havent even "looked Into"

No wonder you support barrack....

Hey GoGreenz, Knock Knock

[gogreeenz4]

go away i dont want girl scout cookies.....

[DarkShadow]

go away i dont want girl scout cookies.....

Queen my dishes!!!

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-26678-he-doesnt-get-it-gif-ATT-comme-LsAo.gif

[gogreeenz4]

Queen my dishes!!!

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-26678-he-doesnt-get-it-gif-ATT-comme-LsAo.gif

i'd love too...said no juan ever

[DarkShadow]

Hey GoGreenz, what's the biggest number you can think of?

[gogreeenz4]

the nations debt....

[DarkShadow]

the nations debt....

Now is it good to have a big tree house, or a little tree house?

[DockRat]

Where are the Obamacare supporters ? http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn379/GwynethC/HeadintheSand.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/GwynethC/media/HeadintheSand.gif.html)


I will admit I'm going to buy some Obama Care insurance.

etuck, Why don't you spend a hour to look into it ? This is YOUR future insurance and with all the time you spend on your computer every single day don't you think your future insurance is important ?


I'm just waiting for the dust to clear before I look into it.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy353/alfapaver80/ObamaCare-Train-Wreck_zps320bb7b3.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/alfapaver80/media/ObamaCare-Train-Wreck_zps320bb7b3.jpg.html)

Sounds like you are losing faith in our pResident ?
All the experts say it is a Train Wreck. Did you watch the Mc Affee video ? This guy has designed internet security systems and made millions. Do you think Mc Affee is a dumbass ?

.......... :Finger: ......... Seniors don't want Obamacare. ....... :Finger: ........
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj102/uskmt/mime-attachment_zpsbe6c7cda.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/uskmt/media/mime-attachment_zpsbe6c7cda.gif.html)

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p7/jennsei/obamacare.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/jennsei/media/obamacare.jpg.html)

[gogreeenz4]

it is all personal preference

[DockRat]

Just a thought here. This Obamacare Failure has been a great distraction for the Prez. Anything to keep Americans from looking at the economy will help him.
Maybe it was planned ? Obama need more disasters. Obama must pray everyday for some huge disaster to hit the USA.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/sherrybrower/obamahpraying.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/sherrybrower/media/obamahpraying.jpg.html)

[etucker1959]

Where are the Obamacare supporters ? http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn379/GwynethC/HeadintheSand.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/GwynethC/media/HeadintheSand.gif.html)


etuck, Why don't you spend a hour to look into it ? This is YOUR future insurance and with all the time you spend on your computer every single day don't you think your future insurance is important ?


http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy353/alfapaver80/ObamaCare-Train-Wreck_zps320bb7b3.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/alfapaver80/media/ObamaCare-Train-Wreck_zps320bb7b3.jpg.html)

Sounds like you are losing faith in our pResident ?
All the experts say it is a Train Wreck. Did you watch the Mc Affee video ? This guy has designed internet security systems and made millions. Do you think Mc Affee is a dumbass ?

.......... :Finger: ......... Seniors don't want Obamacare. ....... :Finger: ........
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj102/uskmt/mime-attachment_zpsbe6c7cda.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/uskmt/media/mime-attachment_zpsbe6c7cda.gif.html)

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p7/jennsei/obamacare.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/jennsei/media/obamacare.jpg.html)
People people let's give it a chance first, before we cast it into Hades!!!! Old people don't like Obama care, why should they ???? They have their Medicare, so why care about anyone else!!!!!!! Selfish old farts!!!!!!

[fly addict]

I notice that illegals don’t have to buy health care insurance and are not going to be fined if they don’t. The problem is there may be up to 20 million of them living in this country illegally, and they will need health care. So who is going to pay for the illegals health care bills when they go to the emergency room for treatment?
They already can sign up for other social services and receive benefits, but were exempt from having to join this Ponzi scheme called obamacare. Maybe it is time to become an illegal citizen in our own country.

[DEVOREFLYER]

People people let's give it a chance first, before we cast it into Hades!!!! Old people don't like Obama care, why should they ???? They have their Medicare, so why care about anyone else!!!!!!! Selfish old farts!!!!!!

Frenchy my little French Poodle the more you talk the more your uninformed ignorance shows. I am one of those “Selfish Old Farts” you speak so fondly of and you too will be one to if you live so long. Each and every one of us paid into Social Security and Medicare under penalty of law our entire working life. The contributions by ourselves and our employer was about 15% of our gross pay up to certain limits.

Then when we were eligible to collect those benefits we get to pay an additional monthly premium for those Medicare benefits. Some of us (about 25% of all Medicare Eligible) elected to enroll in Medicare Advantage plans that provided better benefits for the same monthly premium. Why was Medicare Advantage a better deal, because private enterprise does a better job than the Guberment, no surprise there.

Our Medicare premium goes up every year due to some Guberment number crunching. Our Social Security income also may go up depending on the Guberment number crunching of inflation. Latest estimate of 1.5 to 1.7% inflation for recipients is laughable, everyone knows REAL inflation is greater than that (ain’t Gubernment math great). Now over the years the increase in Social Security NEVER has been enough to offset the INCREASE in Medicare premiums.

As it is now open season for Medicare Advantage we are just now receiving notices of reduced coverage and higher co pays thanks to 0bummer Care. Yes our Guberment is raiding Medicare and Medicare Advantage to help pay for 0bummer Care. I think you will see us “Old Farts” get more than a little pissed off about it. Thanks 0bummer Care.

Now AARP endorsed 0bamma Care for the pResident as you know. Perhaps you don’t know that AARP sells a Medicare Supplement insurance plan to cover those increased co pays and items not covered by Medicare. Gee no wonder that they endorsed 0bummer Care, crony capitalism once again raises it’s ugly head.

Now for some simple math as we all know you are a simple guy not to be confused with simple minded. Lol
I suggest you take the time to look at your Social Security earning statement provided your Guberment every year. Now take that amount and pick any number that you might get in an investment return by investing (conservative or aggressive is your choice). Now take that number and apply the “Rule of 72”, the power of compounding interest, you do know that rule don’t you?

The result should make you very angry at how badly the Gubernment has been screwing you without the common courtesy of a reach around.

Free advise from a "Selfish Old Fart" to an a-zz hat.

Damn I wish that French Poodle was house broken and would quit leg humpin' everyone.

[HawgZWylde]

Frenchy my little French Poodle the more you talk the more your uninformed ignorance shows. I am one of those “Selfish Old Farts” you speak so fondly of and you too will be one to if you live so long. Each and every one of us paid into Social Security and Medicare under penalty of law our entire working life. The contributions by ourselves and our employer was about 15% of our gross pay up to certain limits.

Then when we were eligible to collect those benefits we get to pay an additional monthly premium for those Medicare benefits. Some of us (about 25% of all Medicare Eligible) elected to enroll in Medicare Advantage plans that provided better benefits for the same monthly premium. Why was Medicare Advantage a better deal, because private enterprise does a better job than the Guberment, no surprise there.

Our Medicare premium goes up every year due to some Guberment number crunching. Our Social Security income also may go up depending on the Guberment number crunching of inflation. Latest estimate of 1.5 to 1.7% inflation for recipients is laughable, everyone knows REAL inflation is greater than that (ain’t Gubernment math great). Now over the years the increase in Social Security NEVER has been enough to offset the INCREASE in Medicare premiums.

As it is now open season for Medicare Advantage we are just now receiving notices of reduced coverage and higher co pays thanks to 0bummer Care. Yes our Guberment is raiding Medicare and Medicare Advantage to help pay for 0bummer Care. I think you will see us “Old Farts” get more than a little pissed off about it. Thanks 0bummer Care.

Now AARP endorsed 0bamma Care for the pResident as you know. Perhaps you don’t know that AARP sells a Medicare Supplement insurance plan to cover those increased co pays and items not covered by Medicare. Gee no wonder that they endorsed 0bummer Care, crony capitalism once again raises it’s ugly head.

Now for some simple math as we all know you are a simple guy not to be confused with simple minded. Lol
I suggest you take the time to look at your Social Security earning statement provided your Guberment every year. Now take that amount and pick any number that you might get in an investment return by investing (conservative or aggressive is your choice). Now take that number and apply the “Rule of 72”, the power of compounding interest, you do know that rule don’t you?

The result should make you very angry at how badly the Gubernment has been screwing you without the common courtesy of a reach around.

Free advise from a "Selfish Old Fart" to an a-zz hat.

Damn I wish that French Poodle was house broken and would quit leg humpin' everyone.

Haha, yup, there's those guberment "fuzzy numbers" again. I throw anything and everything AARP in the trash. I get crap from them at least on a by-monthly basis. Dev, you don't really expect those who have guberment edumacations to understand you do you?

[City Dad]

The New York Times is nothing but a mouth-piece for Communist, Taliban Indoctrinated, Troop-hatin', Lefties!!! (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/opinion/keller-obamacare-the-rest-of-the-story.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1&)

[DarkShadow]

The New York Times is nothing but a mouth-piece for Communist, Taliban Indoctrinated, Troop-hatin', Lefties!!! (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/opinion/keller-obamacare-the-rest-of-the-story.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1&)

When an article starts with, "Unless you’ve been bamboozled by the frantic fictions of the right wing, you know that the Affordable Care Act, familiarly known as Obamacare, has begun to accomplish its first goal..."

You know the author has been blackmailed into making those statements.

[etucker1959]

Frenchy my little French Poodle the more you talk the more your uninformed ignorance shows. I am one of those “Selfish Old Farts” you speak so fondly of and you too will be one to if you live so long. Each and every one of us paid into Social Security and Medicare under penalty of law our entire working life. The contributions by ourselves and our employer was about 15% of our gross pay up to certain limits.

Then when we were eligible to collect those benefits we get to pay an additional monthly premium for those Medicare benefits. Some of us (about 25% of all Medicare Eligible) elected to enroll in Medicare Advantage plans that provided better benefits for the same monthly premium. Why was Medicare Advantage a better deal, because private enterprise does a better job than the Guberment, no surprise there.

Our Medicare premium goes up every year due to some Guberment number crunching. Our Social Security income also may go up depending on the Guberment number crunching of inflation. Latest estimate of 1.5 to 1.7% inflation for recipients is laughable, everyone knows REAL inflation is greater than that (ain’t Gubernment math great). Now over the years the increase in Social Security NEVER has been enough to offset the INCREASE in Medicare premiums.

As it is now open season for Medicare Advantage we are just now receiving notices of reduced coverage and higher co pays thanks to 0bummer Care. Yes our Guberment is raiding Medicare and Medicare Advantage to help pay for 0bummer Care. I think you will see us “Old Farts” get more than a little pissed off about it. Thanks 0bummer Care.

Now AARP endorsed 0bamma Care for the pResident as you know. Perhaps you don’t know that AARP sells a Medicare Supplement insurance plan to cover those increased co pays and items not covered by Medicare. Gee no wonder that they endorsed 0bummer Care, crony capitalism once again raises it’s ugly head.

Now for some simple math as we all know you are a simple guy not to be confused with simple minded. Lol
I suggest you take the time to look at your Social Security earning statement provided your Guberment every year. Now take that amount and pick any number that you might get in an investment return by investing (conservative or aggressive is your choice). Now take that number and apply the “Rule of 72”, the power of compounding interest, you do know that rule don’t you?

The result should make you very angry at how badly the Gubernment has been screwing you without the common courtesy of a reach around.

Free advise from a "Selfish Old Fart" to an a-zz hat.

Damn I wish that French Poodle was house broken and would quit leg humpin' everyone.

I hear the young people are getting screwed, now the old people are complaining. Someone gotta win, please don't say nobody wins!!!! I one of the few people here admitting that I'm going to buy the stuff. When I do, I'm going to give a fair and accurate opinion of what I find.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Frenchy your so good at the web try this site and give us a report back, we are waiting, waiting. https://www.coveredca.com/

[etucker1959]

Frenchy my little French Poodle the more you talk the more your uninformed ignorance shows. I am one of those “Selfish Old Farts” you speak so fondly of and you too will be one to if you live so long. Each and every one of us paid into Social Security and Medicare under penalty of law our entire working life. The contributions by ourselves and our employer was about 15% of our gross pay up to certain limits.

Then when we were eligible to collect those benefits we get to pay an additional monthly premium for those Medicare benefits. Some of us (about 25% of all Medicare Eligible) elected to enroll in Medicare Advantage plans that provided better benefits for the same monthly premium. Why was Medicare Advantage a better deal, because private enterprise does a better job than the Guberment, no surprise there.

Our Medicare premium goes up every year due to some Guberment number crunching. Our Social Security income also may go up depending on the Guberment number crunching of inflation. Latest estimate of 1.5 to 1.7% inflation for recipients is laughable, everyone knows REAL inflation is greater than that (ain’t Gubernment math great). Now over the years the increase in Social Security NEVER has been enough to offset the INCREASE in Medicare premiums.

As it is now open season for Medicare Advantage we are just now receiving notices of reduced coverage and higher co pays thanks to 0bummer Care. Yes our Guberment is raiding Medicare and Medicare Advantage to help pay for 0bummer Care. I think you will see us “Old Farts” get more than a little pissed off about it. Thanks 0bummer Care.

Now AARP endorsed 0bamma Care for the pResident as you know. Perhaps you don’t know that AARP sells a Medicare Supplement insurance plan to cover those increased co pays and items not covered by Medicare. Gee no wonder that they endorsed 0bummer Care, crony capitalism once again raises it’s ugly head.

Now for some simple math as we all know you are a simple guy not to be confused with simple minded. Lol
I suggest you take the time to look at your Social Security earning statement provided your Guberment every year. Now take that amount and pick any number that you might get in an investment return by investing (conservative or aggressive is your choice). Now take that number and apply the “Rule of 72”, the power of compounding interest, you do know that rule don’t you?

The result should make you very angry at how badly the Gubernment has been screwing you without the common courtesy of a reach around.

Free advise from a "Selfish Old Fart" to an a-zz hat.

Damn I wish that French Poodle was house broken and would quit leg humpin' everyone.
Dev, you're great at quoting accurate facts.(Not like someone else I know on this board) lol Where I tend to disagree with you is the conclusion you draw from them. When it comes to your Medicare payments going up, is it really the Prez's fault or Obama Care, who really knows!!!! But what I do know, is anything this President does is WRONG to the Conservatives. With the credibility of a scorpion, I take everything the Conservatives say with a grain of salt.

[etucker1959]

Frenchy your so good at the web try this site and give us a report back, we are waiting, waiting. https://www.coveredca.com/

I looked at it, and your point is what?????

[DEVOREFLYER]

What's your point did you sign up or what? Just more talk and no action I would guess, still talkin' the Lib talkin' points, get some new material as your getting old and boring.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Dev, you're great at quoting accurate facts.(Not like someone else I know on this board) lol Where I tend to disagree with you is the conclusion you draw from them. When it comes to your Medicare payments going up, is it really the Prez's fault or Obama Care, who really knows!!!! But what I do know, is anything this President does is WRONG to the Conservatives. With the credibility of a scorpion, I take everything the Conservatives say with a grain of salt.

Frenchy ya got to be good French Poodle and quit slobbering on the pResidents a-zz. I'm going to give your name to the Light House for the Blind so you can get a seeing eye dog instead of that leg humpin' French Poodle as your are BLIND to the FACTS.

[etucker1959]

Frenchy ya got to be good French Poodle and quit slobbering on the pResidents a-zz. I'm going to give your name to the Light House for the Blind so you can get a seeing eye dog instead of that leg humpin' French Poodle as your are BLIND to the FACTS.

If I'm blind to the facts, at least I'm not alone. I've been a bit of a political news junkie lately, so my thoughts are the same as some pretty big people, pretty big. lol

[HawgZWylde]

If I'm blind to the facts, at least I'm not alone. I've been a bit of a political news junkie lately, so my thoughts are the same as some pretty big people, pretty big. lol

You don't have thoughts, you are a follower. Lennin would be proud of you. Everything Dev and I have posted for you has gone right over your head. Since you don't understand it, you discount it as untruth. You can't even come back with any kind of reasonable debate, only rhetorical hogwash. This nation will come hell to pay because of the radical lefts follies. Misinformation and propaganda is now considered truth because the MSM and those who wish to "fundamentally change" this once great nation into yet another failed progressive socialist state said it, and useless idiots like you sucked it up. We as a country are in deep deep trouble, everything our ancestors built that made this country great is being destroyed in the name of social and economic justice, just like Marx said. Our children and Grand children will never see the successes that we and our forefathers lived and enjoyed. But hey, go ahead and keep believing people like Dev and I are just making this stuff up, but when the real s**t hits the fan and all hell breaks loose, don't expect any sympathy from us, cause you won't get any from me. You can wallow in the destruction and misery that is sure to come. Enjoy it tucky, cause people like you brought it...

[DEVOREFLYER]

Few if any ORIGINAL thoughts or SOLUTIONS from Frenchy, no surprise there is it? After all what did ya expect from an 0bummer lover that's humpin' the pResidents leg every chance he gets. Ya just can't break them damn French Poodles of that. I'm guessing that the MBA he claims to have came out of a "Cracker Jack" box or just another sad example of what the education system is putting out.
Frenchy has yet to put out a coherent argument for anything he believes in much less challenge our arguments with any facts just lib talkin' points.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Here's a bone for the French Poodle to chew on:

Ten Things to Expect from Obamacare in 2014
By Elizabeth Lee Vliet, M.D.

It's been clear to anyone paying attention that the October "rollout" of Obamacare has been a turbulent, confusing disaster. Sloppy IT systems and technological failures combined to cripple Obamacare's sign-up systems. Security flaws put Americans at risk for identity theft.

In an almost comical understatement, President Obama summarized these massive failures as "a few glitches." I think that Luke Chung, IT expert and president of database solutions firm FMS, explained the situation much more accurately:

"What should clearly be an enterprise quality, highly scalable software application felt like it wouldn't pass a basic code review. It appears the people who built the site don't know what they're doing, never used it and didn't test it."

Chung went on to call it a "technological disaster."

Think about what this ineptitude means in the bigger debate about Obamacare. The administration spent 3½ years and $698 million of taxpayers' money to develop this software. They've known since earlier this year that the system wasn't ready to support the rollout of the exchanges. Yet they proceeded anyway, apparently unconcerned about their faulty software costing Americans millions of hours of frustration and lost productivity.

These same bureaucrats continue to assume more and more control of our medical care. What does their incompetence say about how they will handle making life-or-death medical care decisions?

Like a parasite taking over its host, Obamacare will commandeer almost 20% of our economy, crowding out private options. With 2014 fast approaching, what should we expect in its next phase?

Here's my list Top Ten list for 2014:

1. The expansion of Medicaid, with increased cost burden for taxpayers.

Medicaid is a combined state-federal program initially designed to help the neediest among us. But it has burgeoned to cover medical costs for about one in every five people. Today, Medicaid pays for two of every five babies born in the United States, and three of every five people in long-term care facilities in the US.

Obamacare will add another 20 million new Medicaid dependents. According to the Kasier Family Foundation, that Medicaid expansion will add an average of 13% to state budgets in costs for 2014 alone.

Even though Medicaid was designed to help the poor, studies have consistently shown that Medicaid recipients receive worse medical care than people without any health insurance at all! Medicaid patients have longer waits to see a doctor, fewer specialists to choose from, and poorer medical outcomes overall. A particularly morbid piece of evidence is that on average, Medicaid patients die sooner after surgery than people who have no medical insurance.

Essentially, Obamacare is forcing 20 million more Americans into second-class medical care with Medicaid.

2. "Sticker shock" as the reality of higher health insurance premiums hits home.

The majority of Americans, especially those who are young and healthy and therefore have paid low premiums in the past, are seeing their health insurance premiums rise between 50% and 150%. Further, employers are cutting full-time workers back to part-time by reducing employees' hours per week from 40 to 29 or less, to avoid having to provide those employees with expensive, Obamacare-compliant coverage.

The "Affordable Care Act" has become anything but affordable for most people.

3. Large and small employers are cutting health insurance benefits.

Obamacare expands the requirements for what all health insurance policies must cover. So it's no mystery why premiums have risen: Americans now must pay for a host of features, whether they want to or not. For example, in my office, the women employees are all menopausal. Yet Obamacare requires our small-business health insurance policy to cover pregnancy and maternity care! That means our policy costs more.

These higher premiums force employers to pass on the costs to employees (in the form of higher co-pays and deductibles) and/or customers (in the form of higher product costs). 2014 will bring even higher premiums for most individuals and businesses.

To deal with this onslaught of rising costs, businesses have a series of bad options: fire or lay off workers, cut health insurance benefits for everyone in the company, or reduce full-time employees to part-time so they don't qualify for health insurance benefits, as I mentioned above.

Unfortunately, some businesses will be forced into the worst option of all: going out of business.

4. The employer-based health insurance policies that remain will have higher out-of-pocket costs for employees.

Because businesses must pay more to purchase Obamacare-compliant plans, they will require employees to pay higher co-pays and deductibles before coverage begins.

5. Fewer types of health insurance policies can be offered under Obamacare.

Many small-business plans and existing physician networks are being terminated due to the expanded coverage requirements under Obamacare. We just received notice that our own small-business plan is being terminated.

Candidate and then President Obama promised, "You can keep your insurance plan." Nope.

6. Many people cannot keep their doctors.

Candidate Obama promised, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." But many patients who like their doctors are being forced to find new ones due to changes in physician networks, as well as doctors leaving insurance plans to start fee-for-service or "concierge" practices.

Sadly, when a patient is pushed out of a long-standing relationship with a physician who understands their medical history, medical outcomes often deteriorate. This is especially true for special-needs patients, who often fall between the cracks when doctors are pressured to see 40 or 50 patients a day in five-minute visits.

7. Further destruction of Medicare.

In 2014, Medicare patients will discover several unwanted changes:

•higher premiums for their supplemental policies
•fewer types of Medicare supplement policies available
•more cutbacks in Medicare-covered services
•longer delays to see doctors, because many doctors are closing their doors to Medicare patients due to the cuts in reimbursements
•fewer cancer care specialists taking Medicare patients
•higher costs for hospital-based cancer treatments, as private offices with lower costs are closed due to reimbursement cutbacks
•fewer hospital-based surgeries being approved because as of October 2012, Obamacare rules incentivize hospitals (i.e., paid more by Medicare) to do fewer surgeries and procedures.
•Medicare patients who sign the Advance Beneficiary Notice (ABN) agreeing to pay for services Medicare does not cover will find that they now have higher out-of-pocket costs to pay for these non-covered services.
•Patients over 80 are already finding reduced approvals for certain procedures and medicines. Expect to see more of this age-based rationing as the Medicare cuts increase over the next decade.
8. Loss of ownership of your medical records.

Your doctors, hospitals, and other health professionals are being pressured to adopt electronic medical record systems and send patient information to the federal government's medical database by 2015. If they don't comply, they'll be penalized with reduced payments for services.

This means the government will own your personal, private information, and you have no say in the matter. I consider this a complete loss of your privacy, as well as a violation of the Constitution's 5th Amendment "Takings" clause.

9. More waivers and exemptions for the political elites and Democrat cronies.

The Obama Administration and its political appointee, HHS Secretary Sibelius, have granted over 1,000 waivers and special exemptions to various Democrat donors, political allies, unions, and others. Obama's politically connected friends are the only Americans who won't suffer under Obamacare's onerous regulations, ballooning costs, and 20 new taxes.

10. On January 1, 2014, the Individual Mandate to purchase Obamacare-compliant health insurance goes into effect.

"Mandate" may sound benign, but it carries the force of law. Those who do not comply face another Obamacare tax (as the Supreme Court defined it), though called a "penalty" by Democrats when they forced the healthcare law through Congress on a partisan vote.

At the end of the day, Obamacare shifts a bigger burden onto taxpayers and increases the number of people on the dole. In other words, it pushes the US in the exact opposite direction it needs to go to solve its massive debt problems.

The most serious problems of Obamacare, however, will be felt at the individual level. You're going to wait longer to see a doctor, you're going to pay more for fewer treatment options, and healthcare quality will deteriorate as doctors and hospitals go out of business.

Obamacare seeks to replace the adaptability and efficiency of our free markets with heavy-handed government control and micromanaging by bureaucrats who don't have a clue about what really helps patients. We need the opposite: patient-centered, free-market reforms.

Such programs have been successfully implemented in states like Indiana and businesses like Whole Foods and Safeway. They used health savings accounts and other incentives to empower consumers to make their own medical spending decisions.

It's possible to reform and improve the broken payment system while keeping our excellent medical care and innovative atmosphere that relieves suffering and improves quality of life. Unfortunately, Obamacare is pushing our country in the wrong direction.

Dr. Vliet writes as an independent practicing physician with medical practices in Tucson and Dallas focused on issues of endocrine aging in men and women from puberty to late life. Dr. Vliet is a registered political Independent, and is also medically independent of all health insurance contracts since 1986. Her allegiance is to and for patients. Dr. Vliet is the 2007 Voice of Women Honoree by the Arizona Foundation for Women for her pioneering work on the overlooked hormone connections in women's health, and she is the author of six consumer books on health topics. She has appeared on nationally syndicated radio and TV shows discussing the healthcare law as well as a variety of health topics for women and men.

Dr. Vliet was one of the speakers at the just-concluded 2013 Casey Research Summit. (Click here to pre-order the complete Summit Audio Collection and save $100 off the normal price. This discount offer ends tomorrow.)

Dr. Vliet's medical websites are www.herplace.com and www.InternationalHealthStrategiesLtd.com. Follow Dr. Vliet on twitter @healthandcents

[HawgZWylde]

Hey tucky, wasn't it you on another thread making the claim that liberals have a higher intelligence level than conservatives and more specifically TEA Party folks? Here's something else for you to chew on;

"A finding in a study on the relationship between science literacy and political ideology surprised the Yale professor behind it: Tea party members know more science than non-tea partiers.

Yale law professor Dan Kahan posted on his blog this week that he analyzed the responses of more than 2,000 American adults recruited for another study and found that, on average, people who leaned liberal were more science literate than those who leaned conservative.

However, those who identified as part of the tea party movement were actually better versed in science than those who didn’t, Kahan found. The findings met the conventional threshold of statistical significance, the professor said.

Kahan wrote that not only did the findings surprise him, they embarrassed him.

“I’ve got to confess, though, I found this result surprising. As I pushed the button to run the analysis on my computer, I fully expected I’d be shown a modest negative correlation between identifying with the Tea Party and science comprehension,” Kahan wrote.

****“But then again, I don’t know a single person who identifies with the tea party,” he continued. “All my impressions come from watching cable tv — & I don’t watch Fox News very often — and reading the ‘paper’ (New York Times daily, plus a variety of politics-focused Internet sites like Huffington Post and POLITICO). I’m a little embarrassed, but mainly, I’m just glad that I no longer hold this particular mistaken view.”****

While Kahan cautioned against thinking the results can be used to explain deep ideological fights over climate change and other politically relevant science, and he said the results wouldn’t change his negative views of the tea party, he did say he will no longer make assumptions about the level of knowledge on his opponents’ side.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/tea-party-science-98488.html#ixzz2i0pDvjh9


**** Hey, this sounds like YOU tucky. Except YOU still think the same way. And this on an Obozo media bedfellow and being admitted by a lefty science researcher no less...

[DarkShadow]

And this on an Obozo media bedfellow and being admitted by a lefty science researcher no less...

Then by the logic you've imposed on other threads, this person should not be trusted with anything they say, right?

(unless of course, it fits your argument)

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3501534/sideshow-bob-steps-on-rakes-o.gif

[gogreeenz4]

dark shadow....

knock knock

[HawgZWylde]

dark shadow....

knock knock

Hey gogreenz, when you knocked twice on his head, did you hear the echo? I heard it from here...

[HawgZWylde]

Then by the logic you've imposed on other threads, this person should not be trusted with anything they say, right?

(unless of course, it fits your argument)

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3501534/sideshow-bob-steps-on-rakes-o.gif

Nice try but not the same thing. And not my point either...

[DarkShadow]

Nice try but not the same thing. And not my point either...

Ahhh, the ole, "But that's different!!"

I don't believe anything that guy says. He's an Obama supporter. You believin' Obama supporters now, Hawgz?

[DarkShadow]

Hey gogreenz, when you knocked twice on his head, did you hear the echo? I heard it from here...

It's because my brain was blackmailed to leave my skull during the time GoGreenz knocked.

Very plausible.

[HawgZWylde]

Ahhh, the ole, "But that's different!!"

I don't believe anything that guy says. He's an Obama supporter. You believin' Obama supporters now, Hawgz?

Whatever suits your fancy sweetie...

[DEVOREFLYER]

I heard da Quagga fancies his sweetie. Just a rumor mind ya, just a rumor. But I would not be surprised either. lol

[gogreeenz4]

It's because my brain was blackmailed to leave my skull during the time GoGreenz knocked.

Very plausible.

queen my dishes

[Lady Quagga]

Quagga

Hey Dev - I see you're still making that fourteen dollars the hard way....

[HawgZWylde]

I heard da Quagga fancies his sweetie. Just a rumor mind ya, just a rumor. But I would not be surprised either. lol

Hummmers and bummers indeed!

[Lady Quagga]

Hey now - I know you like keeping limber, but keep me out of your auto-erotic fantasies.

[HawgZWylde]

Hey now - I know you like keeping limber, but keep me out of your auto-erotic fantasies.

Lol, oh but hey rumors say hottie. It's only natural, you know? Have you delegated yourself to lurker status now or what?

[Lady Quagga]

Have you delegated yourself to lurker status now or what?

No not really. Family, work, school, & illness have prevented me from following the ebb and flow of FNN.

[DEVOREFLYER]

No not really. Family, work, school, & illness have prevented me from following the ebb and flow of FNN.

Illness hey, nothing a wide spectrum antibiotic won't cure. Did ya get it from trolling for a boat ride, well did ya, it's your MO.............

[Lady Quagga]

Illness hey, nothing a wide spectrum antibiotic won't cure. Did ya get it from trolling for a boat ride, well did ya, it's your MO.............

I don't really care to disclose the details. Suffice to say, between being sick and my other real life priorities, I didn't have the time to review your copy/paste nonsense or point to online resources countering your ACA/Medicare Advantage claims.

[DockRat]

Don't forget to get you free Obamacarechip. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm117run-for-hills.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/theogrit/media/1sm117run-for-hills.gif.html)


http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae352/demondh/250406chip.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/demondh/media/250406chip.jpg.html)http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad105/jackcomstock/RFID_hand_1.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/jackcomstock/media/RFID_hand_1.jpg.html)

Obamacare Page 1,004: You Must Have RFID Chip Implanted in Your Body

On Sunday March 21, 2010 the Senate Healthcare bill HR3200 was passed and signed into law the following Tuesday. Like I said before, there are a legion of horrible and just plain evil aspects to this bill and I’m sure you’ve heard a lot them by now. I don’t want to discount them but what cannot be missed here is this new law now opens a prophetic door on a magnitude not seen since the reformation of Israel.

This new law requires an RFID chip implanted in all of us. This chip will not only contain your personal information with tracking capability but it will also be linked to your bank account. And get this, Page 1004 of the new law (dictating the timing of this chip), reads, and I quote: “Not later than 36 months after the date of the enactment”.It is now the law of the land that by March 23rd 2013 we will all be required to have an RFID chip underneath our skin and this chip will be link to our bank accounts as well as have our personal records and tracking capability built into it. They did not managed to implement this on time so the RFID chip is postponed from 2013 and MUST be implemented till end time Dec 31, 2017 for all of us. Yes it is the mark of the beast!!! Don't take this RFID chip!

In just a minute I’m going to show you the black and white of the law itself and you can see it with your own eyes and wonder why an event of this magnitude which is nothing less than seismic in nature is met with little more than silence in the Christian community.
Is it now starting to dawn on you just where exactly we are in prophecy? I’ll ask that question again in a minute and follow up on it, but now I want to show you the law itself. I’ve downloaded a PDF copy of HR3200 from the government’s website so what I’m about to show you is from the bill itself its nothing that I’ve written. You can access it all and see it all for yourself straight from the source itself.
H.R. 3200 section 2521, Pg. 1001, paragraph 1.

The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that— ‘‘is or has been used in or on a patient; ‘‘and is— ‘‘a class III device; or ‘‘a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.”
Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act:
http://www.fda.gov/d...ulationandGuid…
A class II implantable device is an “implantable radio frequency transponder system for patient identification and health information.” The purpose of a class II device is to collect data in medical patients such as “claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary.”
Going back to what we just looked at, the creation of the national medical device registry in section 2521, page 1002 line 5:
“In developing the registry, the secretary shall…”
And the law continues on with a laundry list of items that the secretary must do in the process of creating this registry. In this laundry list of items to do, Line 17, subparagraph B: “validating methods for analyzing patient safety and outcomes data from multiple sources and for linking such data with the information included in the registry as described in subparagraph (A)”
Going back to subparagraph A [right above subparagraph B], it says: “including in the registry, in a manner consistent with subsection (f), appropriate information to identify each device described in paragraph (1) by type, model, and serial number or other unique identifier;”
Don’t be confused by the intentional obfuscation and skillful wording, This law first creates the national device registry and then immediately list all the task the secretary of health and human services will have do in the process of creating this registry.
The very first two items in the list mandates that the secretary first gives a unique identification to each of the items listed in paragraph 1 which is:
‘‘a class III device; or ‘‘a class II device that is implantable.”
Then, the very next thing the secretary is to do is to create the process by which “patient safety and outcomes data from multiple sources”, which is electronic medical records, that are linked to these newly and uniquely identified items from paragraph 1 which are the class III and class II implantable devices.
Class III devises are items such as breast implants, pacemakers, heart valves, etc. A Class II device that is implantable is, as you seen from the FDA, an implantable radio frequency transponder, RFID chip. From breast implants, to pacemakers, to RFID chips which one is the only possible one that can used for the stated purpose in section B which is, “for linking such data with the information included in the registry”? As we know from subsection A, the information in the registry is the name of a device. In plain speak, we are in a clear way being told that our electronic medical records are going to be linked to a class II implantable device!
Continuing a few lines down in this same section, section B subsection ii on still on page 1002, the “patient safety and outcomes data from multiple sources”, that is to be linked is clearly spelled out as electronic medical records. It reads: “link data obtained under clause (i) with information in the registry”. Information in the registry is, as we know from subparagraph A, the name of the device. So what is the data obtained under clause i? Back up a few lines to clause i
It reads: “obtain access to disparate sources of patient safety and outcomes data, including Federal health-related electronic data”. Again, from breast implants, to pacemakers, to RFID chips which one is the only possible one that can used for the stated purpose in section B? That stated purpose is “for linking such data” and the such data is electronic medical records.
What we already have already seen in just the creation of this registry, is the device that will serve as the link, which is an RFID microchip that is categorized as a Class II implantable device, as well as what it will be the link for which is your electronic medical records.
In case the law wasn’t clear enough on that point, still in the laundry list of things to do a few more lines down on the next page, page 1005
“The Secretary to protect the public health; shall establish procedures to permit linkage of information submitted pursuant to subparagraph (A, remember subparagraph A is the class 2 implantable device reference) with patient safety and outcomes data obtained under paragraph (3, which is electronic medical records); and to permit analyses of linked data;”
Continuing on to page 1007, in the STANDARDS, IMPLEMENTATION CRITERIA, AND CERTIFICATION CRITERIA section, the secretary of health and human services is given full power to intact all mandates from the laundry list of to-do items in the creation process of the registry as well as dictate how the devises listed in the National Medical Device Registry are to be used and implemented.
“The Secretary of the Health Human Services, acting through the head of the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, shall adopt standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria for the electronic exchange and use in certified electronic health records of a unique device identifier for each device described in paragraph 1 (National Medical Device Registry), if such an identifier is required by section 519(f) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 360i(f)) for the device.”


Now on Page 503, section E Lines 13-17 and I quote: “encourage, as appropriate, the development and use of clinical registries and the development of clinical effectiveness research data networks from electronic health records, post marketing drug and medical device surveillance efforts”. Let me say that again, medical device surveillance efforts!



and you have this
RFID Microchip Implants Required Under Obamacare? No.

By David Emery

Obamacare and Microchip Implants
microchip-implant.jpg
BlueCross BlueShield SCwww.myscblueapp.comA Range of Health Plans To Fit Your Lifestyle & Budget. Visit Us Today!

Netlore Archive: Viral warnings claim that a provision in Obamacare requires all Americans to receive RFID microchip implants beginning March 23, 2013. Is this the biblical Mark of the Beast?
Via Facebook

Description: Rumor / Forwarded email
Circulating since: 2009 (various versions)
Status: FALSE (see details below)

See also: Internet Spoof Claims RFID Chips Mandated in Wyoming

Example of rumor:
Email contributed by Sherry F., Feb. 11, 2013:



Analysis: It's true that an early draft of what came to be known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare") would have established a national medical device registryto track the safety and efficacy of all kinds of medical devices including, but not limited to, "implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining" ones (such as heart pacemakers, stents, neurostimulators, ophthalmic devices, drug delivery systems, and biometric monitors).

Micro Chip Implant Coming March 23, 2013

The New Health Care (Obama care) law H.R. 3590 Also HR 4872 requires all US citizens to... have the RIFD implanted

This evil plan is being launched by America. its a micro chip injected in your hand. it will contain all your personal data heath and bank accounts etc. its also a GPS device being monitored. they can deactivate it at any time if they find you suspicious or not loyal to their government or go against them or their system and you will lose everything you ever had. soon this device will be made common just like they did credit cards, turning paper money into digital money. means nothing is physically in your hand. it will be made a must for every citizen with time according to their plan and then they will spread it outside America so they can monitor and control as many people as they can and turn them into slaves with their digital technologies.

this device is the future or slavery

BEWARE of this EVIL DEVICE. if you don't believe me do your own research before you come to argue or debate.

warn more people create this awareness do more research on your own and save yourself from this NEW DEVILRY.

It did not mandate the use of any such devices, however. Nowhere in any version of the bill did it say Americans must have microchips or any other devices implanted anywhere in their bodies.

More importantly, the provision creating a national medical device registry was entirely stricken from the final legislation signed into law by President Obama.

Miscronstrued and misrepresented

The language in bills such as this is dense, technical, and sometimes hard to decipher. It is easy to misconstrue, and therefore easy to misrepresent. For example, one Internet postingquotes part of the stricken passage about a national medical device registry and claims it stipulates that "all Americans may be compelled to receive a micro-chip, similar to that used in the identification and control of animals, in order to receive State mandated health care."

Read the passage carefully. It says no such thing.

In any case, the enacted version of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act contains no mention of implantable medical devices at all, much less implantable RFID chips, much less a provision requiring all U.S. citizens to have them. Excerpt from 'H.R. 3200: America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009'

The following language appeared in an early draft of the legislation ultimately passed under the title "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act." Please note that nowhere is it stated that anyone is required to receive a microchip implant. Moreover, this passage was not included in the final billsigned into law by President Obama in 2010.

‘National Medical Device Registry

‘(g)(1) The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that--

‘(A) is or has been used in or on a patient; and

‘( B) is--

‘(i) a class III device; or

‘(ii) a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.

‘(2) In developing the registry, the Secretary shall, in consultation with the Commissioner of Food and Drugs, the Administrator of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, the head of the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, and the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, determine the best methods for--

‘(A) including in the registry, in a manner consistent with subsection (f), appropriate information to identify each device described in paragraph (1) by type, model, and serial number or other unique identifier;

‘( B) validating methods for analyzing patient safety and outcomes data from multiple sources and for linking such data with the information included in the registry as described in subparagraph (A), including, to the extent feasible, use of--

‘(i) data provided to the Secretary under other provisions of this chapter; and

‘(ii) information from public and private sources identified under paragraph (3);

‘© integrating the activities described in this subsection with--

‘(i) activities under paragraph (3) of section 505(k) (relating to active postmarket risk identification);

‘(ii) activities under paragraph (4) of section 505(k) (relating to advanced analysis of drug safety data); and

‘(iii) other postmarket device surveillance activities of the Secretary authorized by this chapter; and

‘(D) providing public access to the data and analysis collected or developed through the registry in a manner and form that protects patient privacy and proprietary information and is comprehensive, useful, and not misleading to patients, physicians, and scientists.

‘(3)(A) To facilitate analyses of postmarket safety and patient outcomes for devices described in paragraph (1), the Secretary shall, in collaboration with public, academic, and private entities, develop methods to--

‘(i) obtain access to disparate sources of patient safety and outcomes data, including--

‘(I) Federal health-related electronic data (such as data from the Medicare program under title XVIII of the Social Security Act or from the health systems of the Department of Veterans Affairs);

‘(II) private sector health-related electronic data (such as pharmaceutical purchase data and health insurance claims data); and

‘(III) other data as the Secretary deems necessary to permit postmarket assessment of device safety and effectiveness; and

‘(ii) link data obtained under clause (i) with information in the registry.

‘( B) In this paragraph, the term ‘data’ refers to information respecting a device described in paragraph (1), including claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary.

‘(4) Not later than 36 months after the date of the enactment of this subsection, the Secretary shall promulgate regulations for establishment and operation of the registry under paragraph (1). Such regulations--

‘(A)(i) in the case of devices that are described in paragraph (1) and sold on or after the date of the enactment of this subsection, shall require manufacturers of such devices to submit information to the registry, including, for each such device, the type, model, and serial number or, if required under subsection (f), other unique device identifier; and

‘(ii) in the case of devices that are described in paragraph (1) and sold before such date, may require manufacturers of such devices to submit such information to the registry, if deemed necessary by the Secretary to protect the public health;

‘( B) shall establish procedures--

‘(i) to permit linkage of information submitted pursuant to subparagraph (A) with patient safety and outcomes data obtained under paragraph (3); and

‘(ii) to permit analyses of linked data;

‘© may require device manufacturers to submit such other information as is necessary to facilitate postmarket assessments of device safety and effectiveness and notification of device risks;

‘(D) shall establish requirements for regular and timely reports to the Secretary, which shall be included in the registry, concerning adverse event trends, adverse event patterns, incidence and prevalence of adverse events, and other information the Secretary determines appropriate, which may include data on comparative safety and outcomes trends; and

‘(E) shall establish procedures to permit public access to the information in the registry in a manner and form that protects patient privacy and proprietary information and is comprehensive, useful, and not misleading to patients, physicians, and scientists.

‘(5) To carry out this subsection, there are authorized to be appropriated such sums as may be necessary for fiscal years 2010 and 2011.’.

(2) EFFECTIVE DATE- The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall establish and begin implementation of the registry under section 519(g) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, as added by paragraph (1), by not later than the date that is 36 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, without regard to whether or not final regulations to establish and operate the registry have been promulgated by such date.

(3) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 303(f)(1)( B)(ii) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 333(f)(1)( B)(ii)) is amended by striking ‘519(g)’ and inserting ‘519(h)’.

( B) Electronic Exchange and Use in Certified Electronic Health Records of Unique Device Identifiers-

(1) RECOMMENDATIONS- The HIT Policy Committee established under section 3002 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 300jj-12) shall recommend to the head of the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria for the electronic exchange and use in certified electronic health records of a unique device identifier for each device described in section 519(g)(1) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, as added by subsection (a).

(2) STANDARDS, IMPLEMENTATION CRITERIA, AND CERTIFICATION CRITERIA- The Secretary of the Health Human Services, acting through the head of the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, shall adopt standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria for the electronic exchange and use in certified electronic health records of a unique device identifier for each device described in paragraph (1), if such an identifier is required by section 519(f) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 360i(f)) for the device.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwUzZQxzZYg

[HawgZWylde]

There’s no actual debt ceiling right now.

The fiscal deal passed by Congress on Wednesday evening to re-open the government and get around the $16.4 trillion limit on borrowing doesn’t actually increase the debt limit. It just temporarily suspends enforcement of it.

That means Americans have no idea how much debt their government is going to rack up between now and Feb. 7, when the limits are supposed to go back into place and will have to be raised.

There is no dollar amount set for how much debt the government can accumulate between now and then. The suspension strategy was employed first earlier this year during previous fiscal battles in Congress.

Such tactics infuriate anti-government waste groups.

“Suspending the debt ceiling without a dollar amount is further proof that Congress is taking a major step backward in fiscal responsibility,” David Williams, the president of the Taxpayers Protection Alliance, told TheDC on Thursday. “A real dollar figure is a constant reminder to taxpayers and Congress that the country is broke. This was done to hide the real debt from taxpayers.”

To critics, lawmakers have gotten away with allowing the country to rack up more debt and avoid the threat of default without actually voting for debt limit increase.

The conservative Heritage Foundation has criticized the practice as a “smokescreen.”

“Suspending the debt is less transparent to the American people. It allows Members of Congress to avoid debate on the specific dollar amount increase in the debt limit, making their vote politically much easier to cast,” the organization wrote in October. “A calendar date is not nearly as scary to constituents as a figure in the trillions of dollars.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/17/theres-no-actual-debt-ceiling-right-now/#ixzz2i2UFWZJS

[etucker1959]

There’s no actual debt ceiling right now.

The fiscal deal passed by Congress on Wednesday evening to re-open the government and get around the $16.4 trillion limit on borrowing doesn’t actually increase the debt limit. It just temporarily suspends enforcement of it.

That means Americans have no idea how much debt their government is going to rack up between now and Feb. 7, when the limits are supposed to go back into place and will have to be raised.

There is no dollar amount set for how much debt the government can accumulate between now and then. The suspension strategy was employed first earlier this year during previous fiscal battles in Congress.

Such tactics infuriate anti-government waste groups.

“Suspending the debt ceiling without a dollar amount is further proof that Congress is taking a major step backward in fiscal responsibility,” David Williams, the president of the Taxpayers Protection Alliance, told TheDC on Thursday. “A real dollar figure is a constant reminder to taxpayers and Congress that the country is broke. This was done to hide the real debt from taxpayers.”

To critics, lawmakers have gotten away with allowing the country to rack up more debt and avoid the threat of default without actually voting for debt limit increase.

The conservative Heritage Foundation has criticized the practice as a “smokescreen.”

“Suspending the debt is less transparent to the American people. It allows Members of Congress to avoid debate on the specific dollar amount increase in the debt limit, making their vote politically much easier to cast,” the organization wrote in October. “A calendar date is not nearly as scary to constituents as a figure in the trillions of dollars.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/17/theres-no-actual-debt-ceiling-right-now/#ixzz2i2UFWZJS

Oh my head hurts, more rabbit hole logic. Look let's talk real numbers, wasn't the CR numbers just a little bit over Ryan's budget numbers? In other words, you'll never by happy with any practical number at this time. I'm so glad Alice is back!!!!!! I'll let her chase you down that rabbit hole. lol

[etucker1959]

I don't really care to disclose the details. Suffice to say, between being sick and my other real life priorities, I didn't have the time to review your copy/paste nonsense or point to online resources countering your ACA/Medicare Advantage claims.

Yea, to what she say's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

[DockRat]

Oh my head hurts.

Read this and it will hurt more;



http://www.zerohedge...ked-under-obamaSubmitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

Barack Obama has been running around the country taking credit for an "economic recovery", but the truth is that things have not gotten better under Obama. Compared to when he first took office, a smaller percentage of the working age population is employed, the quality of our jobs has declined substantially and the middle class has been absolutely shredded. If we are really in the middle of an "economic recovery", why is the homeownership rate the lowest that it has been in 18 years? Why has the number of Americans on food stamps increased by nearly 50 percent while Obama has been in the White House? Why has the national debt gotten more than 6 trillion dollars larger during the Obama era? Obama should not be "taking credit" for anything when it comes to the economy. In fact, he should be deeply apologizing to the American people.

And of course Obama is being delusional if he thinks that he is actually "running the economy". The Federal Reserve has far more power over the U.S. economy and the U.S. financial system than he does. But the mainstream media loves to fixate on the presidency, so presidents always get far too much credit or far too much blame for economic conditions.

But if you do want to focus on "the change" that has taken place since Barack Obama entered the White House, there is no way in the world that you can claim that things have actually gotten better during that time frame. The cold, hard reality of the matter is that the U.S. economy has been steadily declining for over a decade, and this decline has continued while Obama has been living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

It is getting very tiring listening to Obama supporters try to claim that Obama has improved the economy. That is a false claim that is not even remotely close to reality. The following are 33 shocking facts which show how badly the U.S. economy has tanked since Obama became president...

#1 When Barack Obama entered the White House, 60.6 percent of working age Americans had a job. Today, only 58.7 percent of working age Americans have a job.

#2 Since Obama has been president, seven out of every eight jobs that have been "created" in the U.S. economy have been part-time jobs.

#3 The number of full-time workers in the United States is still nearly 6 million below the old record that was set back in 2007.

#4 It is hard to believe, but an astounding 53 percent of all American workers now make less than $30,000 a year.

#5 40 percent of all workers in the United States actually make less than what a full-time minimum wage worker made back in 1968.

#6 When the Obama era began, the average duration of unemployment in this country was 19.8 weeks. Today, it is 36.6 weeks.

#7 During the first four years of Obama, the number of Americans "not in the labor force" soared by an astounding 8,332,000. That far exceeds any previous four year total.

#8 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the middle class is taking home a smaller share of the overall income pie than has ever been recorded before.

#9 When Obama was elected, the homeownership rate in the United States was 67.5 percent. Today, it is 65.0 percent. That is the lowest that it has been in 18 years.

#10 When Obama entered the White House, the mortgage delinquency rate was 7.85 percent. Today, it is 9.72 percent.

#11 In 2008, the U.S. trade deficit with China was 268 billion dollars. Last year, it was 315 billion dollars.

#12 When Obama first became president, 12.5 million Americans had manufacturing jobs. Today, only 11.9 million Americans have manufacturing jobs.

#13 Median household income in America has fallen for four consecutive years. Overall, it has declined by over $4000 during that time span.

#14 The poverty rate has shot up to 16.1 percent. That is actually higher than when the War on Poverty began in 1965.

#15 During Obama's first term, the number of Americans on food stamps increased by an average of about 11,000 per day.

#16 When Barack Obama entered the White House, there were about 32 million Americans on food stamps. Today, there are more than 47 million Americans on food stamps.

#17 At this point, more than a million public school students in the United States are homeless. This is the first time that has ever happened in our history. That number has risen by 57 percent since the 2006-2007 school year.

#18 When Barack Obama took office, the average price of a gallon of regular gasoline was $1.85. Today, it is $3.53.

#19 Electricity bills in the United States have risen faster than the overall rate of inflation for five years in a row.

#20 Health insurance costs have risen by 29 percent since Barack Obama became president, and Obamacare is going to make things far worse.

#21 The United States has fallen in the global economic competitiveness rankings compiled by the World Economic Forum for four years in a row.

#22 According to economist Tim Kane, the following is how the number of startup jobs per 1000 Americans breaks down by presidential administration...

Bush Sr.: 11.3

Clinton: 11.2

Bush Jr.: 10.8

Obama: 7.8

#23 In 2008, that total amount of student loan debt in this country was 440 billion dollars. At this point, it has shot up to about a trillion dollars.

#24 According to one recent survey, 76 percent of all Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

#25 During Obama's first term, the number of Americans collecting federal disability insurance rose by more than 18 percent.

#26 The total amount of money that the federal government gives directly to the American people has grown by 32 percent since Barack Obama became president.

#27 According to the Survey of Income and Program Participation conducted by the U.S. Census, well over 100 million Americans are enrolled in at least one welfare program run by the federal government.

#28 As I wrote about the other day, American households are now receiving more money directly from the federal government than they are paying to the government in taxes.

#29 Under Barack Obama, the velocity of money (a very important indicator of economic health) has plunged to a post-World War II low.

#30 At the end of 2008, the Federal Reserve held $475.9 billion worth of U.S. Treasury bonds. Today, Fed holdings of U.S. Treasury bonds have skyrocketed past the 2 trillion dollar mark.

#31 When Barack Obama was first elected, the U.S. debt to GDP ratio was under 70 percent. Today, it is up to 101 percent.

#32 During Obama's first term, the federal government accumulated more new debt than it did under the first 42 U.S presidents combined.

#33 When you break it down, the amount of new debt accumulated by the U.S. government during Obama's first term comes to approximately $50,521 for every single household in the United States. Are you able to pay your share?

http://www.zerohedge...ked-under-obama

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/Eva4U2/satire/obamanomics-fail-political-poster-1293548387.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Eva4U2/media/satire/obamanomics-fail-political-poster-1293548387.jpg.html)

[etucker1959]

Read this and it will hurt more;



http://www.zerohedge...ked-under-obamaSubmitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

Barack Obama has been running around the country taking credit for an "economic recovery", but the truth is that things have not gotten better under Obama. Compared to when he first took office, a smaller percentage of the working age population is employed, the quality of our jobs has declined substantially and the middle class has been absolutely shredded. If we are really in the middle of an "economic recovery", why is the homeownership rate the lowest that it has been in 18 years? Why has the number of Americans on food stamps increased by nearly 50 percent while Obama has been in the White House? Why has the national debt gotten more than 6 trillion dollars larger during the Obama era? Obama should not be "taking credit" for anything when it comes to the economy. In fact, he should be deeply apologizing to the American people.

And of course Obama is being delusional if he thinks that he is actually "running the economy". The Federal Reserve has far more power over the U.S. economy and the U.S. financial system than he does. But the mainstream media loves to fixate on the presidency, so presidents always get far too much credit or far too much blame for economic conditions.

But if you do want to focus on "the change" that has taken place since Barack Obama entered the White House, there is no way in the world that you can claim that things have actually gotten better during that time frame. The cold, hard reality of the matter is that the U.S. economy has been steadily declining for over a decade, and this decline has continued while Obama has been living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

It is getting very tiring listening to Obama supporters try to claim that Obama has improved the economy. That is a false claim that is not even remotely close to reality. The following are 33 shocking facts which show how badly the U.S. economy has tanked since Obama became president...

#1 When Barack Obama entered the White House, 60.6 percent of working age Americans had a job. Today, only 58.7 percent of working age Americans have a job.

#2 Since Obama has been president, seven out of every eight jobs that have been "created" in the U.S. economy have been part-time jobs.

#3 The number of full-time workers in the United States is still nearly 6 million below the old record that was set back in 2007.

#4 It is hard to believe, but an astounding 53 percent of all American workers now make less than $30,000 a year.

#5 40 percent of all workers in the United States actually make less than what a full-time minimum wage worker made back in 1968.

#6 When the Obama era began, the average duration of unemployment in this country was 19.8 weeks. Today, it is 36.6 weeks.

#7 During the first four years of Obama, the number of Americans "not in the labor force" soared by an astounding 8,332,000. That far exceeds any previous four year total.

#8 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the middle class is taking home a smaller share of the overall income pie than has ever been recorded before.

#9 When Obama was elected, the homeownership rate in the United States was 67.5 percent. Today, it is 65.0 percent. That is the lowest that it has been in 18 years.

#10 When Obama entered the White House, the mortgage delinquency rate was 7.85 percent. Today, it is 9.72 percent.

#11 In 2008, the U.S. trade deficit with China was 268 billion dollars. Last year, it was 315 billion dollars.

#12 When Obama first became president, 12.5 million Americans had manufacturing jobs. Today, only 11.9 million Americans have manufacturing jobs.

#13 Median household income in America has fallen for four consecutive years. Overall, it has declined by over $4000 during that time span.

#14 The poverty rate has shot up to 16.1 percent. That is actually higher than when the War on Poverty began in 1965.

#15 During Obama's first term, the number of Americans on food stamps increased by an average of about 11,000 per day.

#16 When Barack Obama entered the White House, there were about 32 million Americans on food stamps. Today, there are more than 47 million Americans on food stamps.

#17 At this point, more than a million public school students in the United States are homeless. This is the first time that has ever happened in our history. That number has risen by 57 percent since the 2006-2007 school year.

#18 When Barack Obama took office, the average price of a gallon of regular gasoline was $1.85. Today, it is $3.53.

#19 Electricity bills in the United States have risen faster than the overall rate of inflation for five years in a row.

#20 Health insurance costs have risen by 29 percent since Barack Obama became president, and Obamacare is going to make things far worse.

#21 The United States has fallen in the global economic competitiveness rankings compiled by the World Economic Forum for four years in a row.

#22 According to economist Tim Kane, the following is how the number of startup jobs per 1000 Americans breaks down by presidential administration...

Bush Sr.: 11.3

Clinton: 11.2

Bush Jr.: 10.8

Obama: 7.8

#23 In 2008, that total amount of student loan debt in this country was 440 billion dollars. At this point, it has shot up to about a trillion dollars.

#24 According to one recent survey, 76 percent of all Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

#25 During Obama's first term, the number of Americans collecting federal disability insurance rose by more than 18 percent.

#26 The total amount of money that the federal government gives directly to the American people has grown by 32 percent since Barack Obama became president.

#27 According to the Survey of Income and Program Participation conducted by the U.S. Census, well over 100 million Americans are enrolled in at least one welfare program run by the federal government.

#28 As I wrote about the other day, American households are now receiving more money directly from the federal government than they are paying to the government in taxes.

#29 Under Barack Obama, the velocity of money (a very important indicator of economic health) has plunged to a post-World War II low.

#30 At the end of 2008, the Federal Reserve held $475.9 billion worth of U.S. Treasury bonds. Today, Fed holdings of U.S. Treasury bonds have skyrocketed past the 2 trillion dollar mark.

#31 When Barack Obama was first elected, the U.S. debt to GDP ratio was under 70 percent. Today, it is up to 101 percent.

#32 During Obama's first term, the federal government accumulated more new debt than it did under the first 42 U.S presidents combined.

#33 When you break it down, the amount of new debt accumulated by the U.S. government during Obama's first term comes to approximately $50,521 for every single household in the United States. Are you able to pay your share?

http://www.zerohedge...ked-under-obama

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/Eva4U2/satire/obamanomics-fail-political-poster-1293548387.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Eva4U2/media/satire/obamanomics-fail-political-poster-1293548387.jpg.html)
DR Bud, always remember I'm on your side when it comes to deficit spending. Where we might disagree, I feel it has to be a combination of increased revenue and spending cuts. You can't get there alone on spending cuts only. If you did, there would be rioting in the streets.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Let the "Riots Begin". lol

[etucker1959]

Let the "Riots Begin". lol
Let me tell you a funny story about the Riots. You know who I could quote on the Riots happening??? Bill O' Reilly, you know the guy on FOX that has his own show the Factor. He said it just last week, take away too much from the people that are depending on it. The end result would be Rioting in the Streets.

[HawgZWylde]

Let me tell you a funny story about the Riots. You know who I could quote on the Riots happening??? Bill O Reilly, you know the guy on FOX that has his own show the Factor. He said it just last week, take away too much from the people that are depending on it. The end result would be Rioting in the Streets.

So, what are we waiting for? I say bring it, lets get it over with now so we can get back to bringing this nation to some fiscal sanity...

[Lady Quagga]

So, what are we waiting for? I say bring it, lets get it over with now so we can get back to bringing this nation to some fiscal sanity...

Um yeah no.

[etucker1959]

So, what are we waiting for? I say bring it, lets get it over with now so we can get back to bringing this nation to some fiscal sanity...
Let's just say that did happen, it doesn't matter who would win. I guarantee the biggest loser of all, would be the American people's FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!! That's why they pay ME the big bucks around here. lol

[City Dad]

So, what are we waiting for? I say bring it, lets get it over with now so we can get back to bringing this nation to some fiscal sanity...

I think you should get the ball rolling with a campaign of arbitrary nun chuck attacks against suspected liberals. I'd tune in to watch that.

[DarkShadow]

I think you should get the ball rolling with a campaign of arbitrary nun chuck attacks against suspected liberals. I'd tune in to watch that.

Ditto.

That'd make for better entertainment than standing on the sidelines and calling co-workers over to read some of the stuff that's been written here.

:LOL:

[gogreeenz4]

go queen dishes

[HawgZWylde]

I think you should get the ball rolling with a campaign of arbitrary nun chuck attacks against suspected liberals. I'd tune in to watch that.

Meh, I won't have to start anything, it'll go off on it's own when the money runs out. It's already happening in certain parts of the country where they're experiencing ever increasing mob attacks. And it ain't us "ultra right wing", constitution and freedom loving patriots that are doing it. Oh, and when the show starts, I don't think you'll be sitting around watching anything unless you got a bunker or something. Even then, power may be questionable at best. In the direction this country is headed, only a fool would believe it couldn't happen...

[Lady Quagga]

Meh, I won't have to start anything, it'll go off on it's own when the money runs out. It's already happening in certain parts of the country where they're experiencing ever increasing mob attacks. And it ain't us "ultra right wing", constitution and freedom loving patriots that are doing it. Oh, and when the show starts, I don't think you'll be sitting around watching anything unless you got a bunker or something. Even then, power may be questionable at best. In the direction this country is headed, only a fool would believe it couldn't happen...

Ever increasing mob attacks? Can you name the ten most recent mob attacks, the number of perpetrators involved, their initial motivation for these attacks, the number of victims involved, and the number of fatalities? (And no using this list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers).)

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that mass civil unrest on a nationwide scale could never happen. But only a fool would believe it is likely to happen. And only a sociopath would want to "bring it".

[HawgZWylde]

Ever increasing mob attacks? Can you name the ten most recent mob attacks, the number of perpetrators involved, their initial motivation for these attacks, the number of victims involved, and the number of fatalities? (And no using this list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers).)

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that mass civil unrest on a nationwide scale could never happen. But only a fool would believe it is likely to happen. And only a sociopath would want to "bring it".

Google "recent mob attacks in USA" yourself. Don't take it from me. I never said I wanted it to happen and do not want it happen or I and millions of others wouldn't be trying to make it NOT happen. But the radical left progressives are forcing their failed ideology incrementally and more recently quite urgently upon America and IS CAUSING IT'S IMPENDING FAILURE. I don't care if you like that FACT or not, it's happening and if it does not get rectified very soon, will lead to our economic collapse and subsequent societal chaos. It is what it is L/Q...

[etucker1959]

Google "recent mob attacks in USA" yourself. Don't take it from me. I never said I wanted it to happen and do not want it happen or I and millions of others wouldn't be trying to make it NOT happen. But the radical left progressives are forcing their failed ideology incrementally and more recently quite urgently upon America and IS CAUSING IT'S IMPENDING FAILURE. I don't care if you like that FACT or not, it's happening and if it does not get rectified very soon, will lead to our economic collapse and subsequent societal chaos. It is what it is L/Q...
Remember I don't think the right or the left has the answer's to our Economic wows in the long run. Some thing new has to be tried. So let me ask you an honest question, do you really think what the right is offering, really would work for our Economy in the long run??????

[Lady Quagga]

Google "recent mob attacks in USA" yourself. Don't take it from me. I never said I wanted it to happen and do not want it happen or I and millions of others wouldn't be trying to make it NOT happen. But the radical left progressives are forcing their failed ideology incrementally and more recently quite urgently upon America and IS CAUSING IT'S IMPENDING FAILURE. I don't care if you like that FACT or not, it's happening and if it does not get rectified very soon, will lead to our economic collapse and subsequent societal chaos. It is what it is L/Q...

I don't need to Google anything, because I already know about these "mob attacks". They are not attacks stemming from civil unrest. Criminal? Absolutely.

So, what exactly are you suggesting when you say "bring it"? Have you discovered a new parlance that no one else knows about? Because the common understanding of "bring it" means to welcome something - in this case, "rioting in the streets".

Radical left progressives are bringing about America's impending failure? Extreme right-wing conservatives started the ball rolling. What you've seen for the past 20 years is reactionary politics, pure and simple. Both the left and the right are guilty of it. Both sides refuse to accept any sort of responsibility for their failure to work together, which has resulted in extremist laws to pass unchecked. Conservatives are a particularly interesting example, because they've tried to distance themselves from the more moderate Republicans they were holding hands with back in 1994 or so. And it was only 5 years ago that these same folks were trying to outdo each other on how moderate they were - now they are trying to outdo one another on how conservative they are.

[HawgZWylde]

I don't need to Google anything, because I already know about these "mob attacks". They are not attacks stemming from civil unrest. Criminal? Absolutely.

So, what exactly are you suggesting when you say "bring it"? Have you discovered a new parlance that no one else knows about? Because the common understanding of "bring it" means to welcome something - in this case, "rioting in the streets".

Radical left progressives are bringing about America's impending failure? Extreme right-wing conservatives started the ball rolling. What you've seen for the past 20 years is reactionary politics, pure and simple. Both the left and the right are guilty of it. Both sides refuse to accept any sort of responsibility for their failure to work together, which has resulted in extremist laws to pass unchecked. Conservatives are a particularly interesting example, because they've tried to distance themselves from the more moderate Republicans they were holding hands with back in 1994 or so. And it was only 5 years ago that these same folks were trying to outdo each other on how moderate they were - now they are trying to outdo one another on how conservative they are.

Whether you want to believe it or not, it's coming Quagga. Those mob attacks are symptomatic of the breakdown of the fabric of our society. Even tucky himself has said several times here on the threads that this is what will happen if the "entitlements" go away. And he's right about that. Those entitlements are what is breaking the fiscal backbone of our nation whether they be corporate subsidies, foreign "aid", domestic welfare, unfunded government union pensions, etc. etc. When the progressive government runs out of money, and it will, all hell will break loose. If you can't swallow that, then it's your loss, not mine.

"Extreme right wing conservatives started the ball rolling" Really? Name them and please do enlighten me on exactly what those extremist policies were that got the ball rolling. The traditional center of American politics has been dragged far to the left. If you call TEA Party members right wing extremists, you are way way off base. They are constitutionalists. Are you saying our constitution is a extreme right wing document? If you do, you are hugely mistaken. The demorat party now pretty much is consisted of far left wing progressive socialists and new age communists. And some in the republican party are moderate progressive socialists, that's where the division in the repub party lies. Remember, the TEA Party folks are constitutionalists, as are the constitutional conservatives, most libertarians tend to vote repub as well. What you saw take place 5 years ago, and in 2012, was many on the right staying home and not voting because the candidates the repubs ran were nothing more that moderate progressive socialists(McCain) and in the most recent election, a far too moderate corporatist who was untrusted by millions of center right to right voters. 8-9 million registered republican voters stayed home which would have been more than enough to defeat leftist progressive socialist Obozo. Add fraud to the elections, and this is what we end up with, a corrupt, far left wing administration hell bent on "fundamentally changing" American politics and it's economic model. We aren't trying to outdo one another, we are simply cleaning out the progressive socialists. While the former democrat party does nothing except continue to attempt to destroy all those who oppose their march to advanced, or authoritarian progressive socialism.

The progressive socialists gained a congressional majority for the last two years of president Bush's administration, they blocked any attempts at changing anything that would have stopped, or lessened the damage of the impending market crash. Then they gained a super majority for the first two years of Obozo's presidency, exactly what did they accomplish Quagga? Did they pass anything that would help bring fiscal sanity to our nation? No, we got Obozocare, the exact opposite. We got huge corporate and bank bailouts and subsidized solar energy plants that in many cases failed before they even got up and running. We've got historical numbers of joblessness, welfare and food stamp recipients. We've got more jobs leaving or disappearing altogether, and a nation full of part time workers. You Quagga, are calling the wrong side extremists. And that is telling on who exactly you are...

When the repubs regained the majority in the House, it was a mandate by the people, hence the government shutdown as of late. That's called "checks and balances" which is guaranteed by our constitution. They were given the majority to stop progressive socialist programs like the disaster called Obozocare. The left absolutely hates that and will spew propaganda and misinformation like false polls in order to character assassinate anyone who gets in their way of progressing the advancement of said socialism. The progressive left would not give an inch, and was by design in order to use to destroy any opposition to their agenda. They will also destroy our economy in order to "fundamentally change" it. They've been working on that for a hundred years. Think Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Clinton, and now Obozo.

Those of us who you call "ultra right wing extremists", are trying to preserve our constitution based federal republic and it's constitution that guarantees INDIVIDUAL freedom and liberty. The progressive left socialists are attempting to "fundamentally change" it into a progressive social democracy. They are using race and economic division in order to destroy the fabric of our free society to advance Statist collectivism...

Oh, and by the way, if want to call those, including me, "ultra right wing extremist" for trying to save our constitution based federal REPUBLIC then so be it, I'll say "bring it"...

[etucker1959]

Whether you want to believe it or not, it's coming Quagga. Those mob attacks are symptomatic of the breakdown of the fabric of our society. Even tucky himself has said several times here on the threads that this is what will happen if the "entitlements" go away. And he's right about that. Those entitlements are what is breaking the fiscal backbone of our nation whether they be corporate subsidies, foreign "aid", domestic welfare, unfunded government union pensions, etc. etc. When the progressive government runs out of money, and it will, all hell will break loose. If you can't swallow that, then it's your loss, not mine.

"Extreme right wing conservatives started the ball rolling" Really? Name them and please do enlighten me on exactly what those extremist policies were that got the ball rolling. The traditional center of American politics has been dragged far to the left. If you call TEA Party members right wing extremists, you are way way off base. They are constitutionalists. Are you saying our constitution is an extreme right wing document? If you do, you are hugely mistaken. The demorat party now pretty much is consisted of far left wing progressive socialists and new age communists. And some in the republican party are moderate progressive socialists, that's where the division in the repub party lies. Remember, the TEA Party folks are constitutionalists, as are the constitutional conservatives, most libertarians tend to vote repub as well. What you saw take place 5 years ago, and in 2012, was many on the right staying home and not voting because the candidates the repubs ran were nothing more that moderate progressive socialists(McCain) and in the most recent election, a far too moderate corporatist who was untrusted by millions of center right to right voters. 8-9 million registered republican voters stayed home which would have been more than enough to defeat leftist progressive socialist Obozo. Add fraud to the elections, and this is what we end up with, a corrupt, far left wing administration hell bent on "fundamentally changing" American politics and it's economic model. We aren't trying to outdo one another, we are simply cleaning out the progressive socialists. While the former democrat party does nothing except continue to attempt to destroy all those who oppose their march to advanced, or authoritarian progressive socialism.

The progressive socialists gained a congressional majority for the last two years of president Bush's administration, they blocked any attempts at changing anything that would have stopped, or lessened the damage of the impending market crash. Then they gained a super majority for the first two years of Obozo's presidency, exactly what did they accomplish Quagga? Did they pass anything that would help bring fiscal sanity to our nation? No, we got Obozocare, the exact opposite. We got huge corporate and bank bailouts and subsidized solar energy plants that in many cases failed before they even got up and running. We've got historical numbers of joblessness, welfare and food stamp recipients. We've got more jobs leaving or disappearing altogether, and a nation full of part time workers. You Quagga, are calling the wrong side extremists. And that is telling on who exactly you are...

When the repubs regained the majority in the House, it was a mandate by the people, hence the government shutdown as of late. That's called "checks and balances" which is guaranteed by our constitution. They were given the majority to stop progressive socialist programs like the disaster called Obozocare. The left absolutely hates that and will spew propaganda and misinformation like false polls in order to character assassinate anyone who gets in their way of progressing the advancement of said socialism. The progressive left would not give an inch, and was by design in order to use to destroy any opposition to their agenda. They will also destroy our economy in order to "fundamentally change" it. They've been working on that for a hundred years. Think Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Clinton, and now Obozo.

Those of us who you call "ultra right wing extremists", are trying to preserve our constitution based federal republic and it's constitution that guarantees INDIVIDUAL freedom and liberty. The progressive left socialists are attempting to "fundamentally change" it into a progressive social democracy. They are using race and economic division in order to destroy the fabric of our free society to advance Statist collectivism...

I have to say that was very well written. The problem I see in your arguments is, the majority of the people won't accept hard right wing economic policies. There just too harsh and people won't swallow them. What you have to do is come up with things they can accept, but still put push the country in the right direction.

[HawgZWylde]

I have to say that was very well written. The problem I see in your arguments is, the majority of the people won't accept hard right wing economic policies. There just too harsh and people won't swallow them. What you have to do is come up with things they can accept, but still put push the country in the right direction.

Tucker, at this point in our fiscal crisis, anything that would effectively help is going to hurt in the short term. It's inevitable. But the alternative of continuing in the direction of progressively socializing America will lead to it's complete failure and that would be a disastrous tragedy. When a people are free to practice private ownership and enterprise with minimal government interference, those people AS A WHOLE have a far greater chance at success and prosperity. If those people are subjected to onerous and overbearing regulations, mandates, fees, and taxes for the sake of entitlement, or the injection of socialism into capitalism, if you will, by an monstrously huge central government, only the elites who consist of the government and those affiliated with it, and the CRONY capitalists will prosper while everyone else exists to feed the monster. Does that make sense?

So going back to your post, you say "the majority of the people won't accept hard right wing policies". What policies are you referring to? It's black or white at this point tucker. It's not about "right wing policy", as true far right wing policy, nor it's players have ever been in power in America. It's far left wing policy being injected into our system over the decades that's causing the problems. And yes, we are THAT close to fiscal collapse. That is exactly why QE exists. It's the only thing keeping the market numbers up. What would happen if QE stopped immediately? Dev made a couple of excellent posts here that explained what's taking place and the consequences of continuing those policies. Go back and reread them over and over. Yes, it's difficult because most of us are not trained economic experts. We all have our own way of making a living and being experts on economic issues aren't it. So that leaves a majority of us at the whims of those we elect to be just that, experts on OUR economic system and that's exactly how and where those who wish ill will upon our way of life take advantage of us. While I minored in poli-sci/econ in college 35 years ago, I am by no means an expert. I'll admit, I had to reread some of those posts to get a good grasp of what it meant. Currently, we are headed in the opposite direction of where we need to go. But the far left progressives(including the RINO's) won't tell you that...

[DEVOREFLYER]

I will submit the following as further evidence as to many of my above posts that we are in more trouble than we are being told. Further inaction by the pResident and Congress to take VERY STRONG measures most of which are 180 degrees opposite to what the Libs want and over 50% of what the Repubs want. Fasten your seat belt it's gonna be a wild ride with a lot of casualties. It is a lengthy read and few will have the patience to read it, fewer yet will understand it's implication's.

Authored by Lacy Hunt via Casey Research,

The Fed's capabilities to engineer changes in economic growth and inflation are asymmetric. It has been historically documented that central bank tools are well suited to fight excess demand and rampant inflation; the Fed showed great resolve in containing the fast price increases in the aftermath of World Wars I and II and the Korean War. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, rampant inflation was again brought under control by a determined and persistent Federal Reserve.

However, when an economy is excessively over-indebted and disinflationary factors force central banks to cut overnight interest rates to as close to zero as possible, central bank policy is powerless to further move inflation or growth metrics. The periods between 1927 and 1939 in the U.S. (and elsewhere), and from 1989 to the present in Japan, are clear examples of the impotence of central bank policy actions during periods of over-indebtedness.

Four considerations suggest the Fed will continue to be unsuccessful in engineering increasing growth and higher inflation with their continuation of the current program of Large Scale Asset Purchases (LSAP):

•First, the Fed's forecasts have consistently been too optimistic, which indicates that their knowledge of how LSAP operates is flawed. LSAP obviously is not working in the way they had hoped, and they are unable to make needed course corrections.
•Second, debt levels in the U.S. are so excessive that monetary policy's traditional transmission mechanism is broken.
•Third, recent scholarly studies, all employing different rigorous analytical methods, indicate LSAP is ineffective.
•Fourth, the velocity of money has slumped, and that trend will continue—which deprives the Fed of the ability to have a measurable influence on aggregate economic activity and is an alternative way of confirming the validity of the aforementioned academic studies.
1. The Fed does not understand how LSAP operates

If the Fed were consistently getting the economy right, then we could conclude that their understanding of current economic conditions is sound. However, if they regularly err, then it is valid to argue that they are misunderstanding the way their actions affect the economy.

During the current expansion, the Fed's forecasts for real GDP and inflation have been consistently above the actual numbers. Late last year, the midpoint of the Fed's central tendency forecast projected an increase in real GDP of 2.7% for 2013—the way it looks now, this estimate could miss the mark by nearly 50%.

One possible reason why the Fed have consistently erred on the high side in their growth forecasts is that they assume higher stock prices will lead to higher spending via the so-called wealth effect. The Fed's ad hoc analysis on this subject has been wrong and is in conflict with econometric studies. The studies suggest that when wealth rises or falls, consumer spending does not generally respond, or if it does respond, it does so feebly. During the run-up of stock and home prices over the past three years, the year-over-year growth in consumer spending has actually slowed sharply from over 5% in early 2011 to just 2.9% in the four quarters ending Q2.

Reliance on the wealth effect played a major role in the Fed's poor economic forecasts. LSAP has not been able to spur growth and achieve the Fed's forecasts to date, and it certainly undermines the Fed's continued assurances that this time will truly be different.

2. US debt is so high that Fed policies cannot gain traction

Another impediment to LSAP's success is the Fed's failure to consider that excessive debt levels block the main channel of monetary influence on economic activity. Scholarly studies published in the past three years document that economic growth slows when public and private debt exceeds 260% to 275% of GDP. In the U.S., from 1870 until the late 1990s, real GDP grew by 3.7% per year. It was during 2000 that total debt breached the 260% level. Since 2000, growth has averaged a much slower 1.8% per year.

Once total debt moved into this counterproductive zone, other far-reaching and unintended consequences became evident. The standard of living, as measured by real median household income, began to stagnate and now stands at the lowest point since 1995. Additionally, since the start of the current economic expansion, real median household income has fallen 4.3%, which is totally unprecedented. Moreover, both the wealth and income divides in the U.S. have seriously worsened.

Over-indebtedness is the primary reason for slower growth, and unfortunately, so far the Fed's activities have had nothing but negative, unintended consequences.

3. Academic studies indicate the Fed's efforts are ineffectual

Another piece of evidence that points toward monetary ineffectiveness is the academic research indicating that LSAP is a losing proposition. The United States now has had five years to evaluate the efficacy of LSAP, during which time the Fed's balance sheet has increased a record fourfold.

It is undeniable that the Fed has conducted an all-out effort to restore normal economic conditions. However, while monetary policy works with a lag, the LSAP has been in place since 2008 with no measurable benefit. This lapse of time is now far greater than even the longest of the lags measured in the extensive body of scholarly work regarding monetary policy.

Three different studies by respected academicians have independently concluded that indeed these efforts have failed. These studies, employing various approaches, have demonstrated that LSAP cannot shift the Aggregate Demand (AD) Curve. The AD curve intersects the Aggregate Supply Curve to determine the aggregate price level and real GDP and thus nominal GDP. The AD curve is not responding to monetary actions, therefore the price level and real GDP, and thus nominal GDP, are stuck—making the actions of the Fed irrelevant.

The papers I am talking about were presented at the Jackson Hole Monetary Conference in August 2013. The first is by Robert E. Hall, one of the world's leading econometricians and a member of the prestigious NBER Cycle Dating Committee. He wrote, "The combination of low investment and low consumption resulted in an extraordinary decline in output demand, which called for a markedly negative real interest rate, one unattainable because the zero lower bound on the nominal interest rate coupled with low inflation put a lower bound on the real rate at only a slightly negative level."

Dr. Hall also wrote the following about the large increase in reserves to finance quantitative easing: "An expansion of reserves contracts the economy." In other words, not only have the Fed not improved matters, they have actually made economic conditions worse with their experiments. Additionally, Dr. Hall presented evidence that forward guidance and GDP targeting both have serious problems and that central bankers should focus on requiring more capital at banks and more rigorous stress testing.

The next paper is by Hyun Song Shin, another outstanding monetary theorist and econometrician and holder of an endowed chair at Princeton University. He looked at the weighted-average effective one-year rate for loans with moderate risk at all commercial banks, the effective Fed Funds rate, and the spread between the two in order to evaluate Dr. Hall's study. He also evaluated comparable figures in Europe. In both the U.S. and Europe these spreads increased, supporting Hall's analysis.

Dr. Shin also examined quantities such as total credit to U.S. non-financial businesses. He found that lending to non-corporate businesses, which rely on the banks, has been essentially stagnant. Dr. Shin states, "The trouble is that job creation is done most by new businesses, which tend to be small." Thus, he found "disturbing implications for the effectiveness of central bank asset purchases" and supported Hall's conclusions.

Dr. Shin argued that we should not forget how we got into this mess in the first place when he wrote, "Things were not right in the financial system before the crisis, leverage was too high, and the banking sector had become too large." For us, this insight is highly relevant since aggregate debt levels relative to GDP are greater now than in 2007. Dr. Shin, like Dr. Hall, expressed extreme doubts that forward guidance was effective in bringing down longer-term interest rates.

The last paper is by Arvind Krishnamurthy of Northwestern University and Annette Vissing-Jorgensen of the University of California, Berkeley. They uncovered evidence that the Fed's LSAP program had little "portfolio balance" impact on other interest rates and was not macro-stimulus. A limited benefit did result from mortgage-backed securities purchases due to the announcement effects, but even this small plus may be erased once the still unknown exit costs are included.

Drs. Krishnamurthy and Vissing-Jorgensen also criticized the Fed for not having a clear policy rule or strategy for asset purchases. They argued that the absence of concrete guidance as to the goal of asset purchases, which has been vaguely defined as aimed toward substantial improvement in the outlook for the labor market, neutralizes their impact and complicates an eventual exit. Further, they wrote, "Without such a framework, investors do not know the conditions under which (asset buys) will occur or be unwound." For Krishnamurthy and Vissing-Jorgensen, this "undercuts the efficacy of policy targeted at long-term asset values."

4. The velocity of money—outside the Fed's control

The last problem the Fed faces in their LSAP program is their inability to control the velocity of money. The AD curve is planned expenditures for nominal GDP. Nominal GDP is equal to the velocity of money (V) multiplied by the stock of money (M), thus GDP = M x V. This is Irving Fisher's equation of exchange, one of the important pillars of macroeconomics.

V peaked in 1997, as private and public debt were quickly approaching the nonproductive zone. Since then it has plunged. The level of velocity in the second quarter is at its lowest level in six decades. By allowing high debt levels to accumulate from the 1990s until 2007, the Fed laid the foundation for rendering monetary policy ineffectual. Thus, Fisher was correct when he argued in 1933 that declining velocity would be a symptom of extreme indebtedness just as much as weak aggregate demand.

Fisher was able to make this connection because he understood Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk's brilliant insight that debt is future consumption denied. Also, we have the benefit of Hyman Minsky's observation that debt must be able to generate an income stream to repay principal and interest, thereby explaining that there is such a thing as good (productive) debt as opposed to bad (non-productive) debt. Therefore, the decline in money velocity when there are very high levels of debt to GDP should not be surprising. Moreover, as debt increases, so does the risk that it will be unable to generate the income stream required to pay principal and interest.

Perhaps well intended, but ill advised

The Fed's relentless buying of massive amounts of securities has produced no positive economic developments, but has had significant negative, unintended consequences.

For example, banks have a limited amount of capital with which to take risks with their portfolio. With this capital, they have two broad options: First, they can confine their portfolio to their historical lower-risk role of commercial banking operations—the making of loans and standard investments. With interest rates at extremely low levels, however, the profit potential from such endeavors is minimal.

Second, they can allocate resources to their proprietary trading desks to engage in leveraged financial or commodity market speculation. By their very nature, these activities are potentially far more profitable but also much riskier. Therefore, when money is allocated to the riskier alternative in the face of limited bank capital, less money is available for traditional lending. This deprives the economy of the funds needed for economic growth, even though the banks may be able to temporarily improve their earnings by aggressive risk taking.

Perversely, confirming the point made by Dr. Hall, a rise in stock prices generated by excess reserves may sap, rather than supply, funds needed for economic growth.

Incriminating evidence: the money multiplier

It is difficult to determine for sure whether funds are being sapped, but one visible piece of evidence confirms that this is the case: the unprecedented downward trend in the money multiplier.

The money multiplier is the link between the monetary base (high-powered money) and the money supply (M2); it is calculated by dividing the base into M2. Today the monetary base is $3.5 trillion, and M2 stands at $10.8 trillion. The money multiplier is 3.1. In 2008, prior to the Fed's massive expansion of the monetary base, the money multiplier stood at 9.3, meaning that $1 of base supported $9.30 of M2.

If reserves created by LSAP were spreading throughout the economy in the traditional manner, the money multiplier should be more stable. However, if those reserves were essentially funding speculative activity, the money would remain with the large banks and the money multiplier would fall. This is the current condition.

The September 2013 level of 3.1 is the lowest in the entire 100-year history of the Federal Reserve. Until the last five years, the money multiplier never dropped below the old historical low of 4.5 reached in late 1940. Thus, LSAP may have produced the unintended consequence of actually reducing economic growth.

Stock market investors benefited, but this did not carry through to the broader economy. The net result is that LSAP worsened the gap between high- and low-income households. When policy makers try untested theories, risks are almost impossible to anticipate.

The near-term outlook

Economic growth should be very poor in the final months of 2013. Growth is unlikely to exceed 1%—that is even less than the already anemic 1.6% rate of growth in the past four quarters.

Marked improvement in 2014 is also questionable. Nominal interest rates have increased this year, and real yields have risen even more sharply because the inflation rate has dropped significantly. Due to the recognition and implementation lags, only half of the 2013 tax increase of $275 billion will have been registered by the end of the year, with the remaining impact to come in 2014 and 2015.

Additionally, parts of this year's tax increase could carry a negative multiplier of two to three. Currently, many of the taxes and other cost burdens of the Affordable Care Act are in the process of being shifted from corporations and profitable small businesses to households, thus serving as a de facto tax increase. In such conditions, the broadest measures of inflation, which are barely exceeding 1%, should weaken further. Since LSAP does not constitute macro-stimulus, its continuation is equally meaningless. Therefore, the decision of the Fed not to taper makes no difference for the outlook for economic growth.

[etucker1959]

Tucker, at this point in our fiscal crisis, anything that would effectively help is going to hurt in the short term. It's inevitable. But the alternative of continuing in the direction of progressively socializing America will lead to it's complete failure and that would be a disastrous tragedy. When a people are free to practice private ownership and enterprise with minimal government interference, those people AS A WHOLE have a far greater chance at success and prosperity. If those people are subjected to onerous and overbearing regulations, mandates, fees, and taxes for the sake of entitlement, or the injection of socialism into capitalism, if you will, by an monstrously huge central government, only the elites who consist of the government and those affiliated with it, and the CRONY capitalists will prosper while everyone else exists to feed the monster. Does that make sense?

So going back to your post, you say "the majority of the people won't accept hard right wing policies". What policies are you referring to? It's black or white at this point tucker. It's not about "right wing policy", as true far right wing policy, nor it's players have ever been in power in America. It's far left wing policy being injected into our system over the decades that's causing the problems. And yes, we are THAT close to fiscal collapse. That is exactly why QE exists. It's the only thing keeping the market numbers up. What would happen if QE stopped immediately? Dev made a couple of excellent posts here that explained what's taking place and the consequences of continuing those policies. Go back and reread them over and over. Yes, it's difficult because most of us are not trained economic experts. We all have our own way of making a living and being experts on economic issues aren't it. So that leaves a majority of us at the whims of those we elect to be just that, experts on OUR economic system and that's exactly how and where those who wish ill will upon our way of life take advantage of us. While I minored in poli-sci/econ in college 35 years ago, I am by no means an expert. I'll admit, I had to reread some of those posts to get a good grasp of what it meant. Currently, we are headed in the opposite direction of where we need to go. But the far left progressives(including the RINO's) won't tell you that...

I'll keep it simple HawZ, a balanced budget. Heck I'm all for that!!!!!!!!!!!!! However the right wing approach is, don't raise tax's on anything and take a meat cleaver to the budget, including SS and Medicare. Sorry but that won't fly!!!!!! What you need to do is this, take on the three big expenses one at a time and make them pay for themselves. Start with SS, the first thing you need to do is raise the age limit, then increase the with holdings and take off the cap. Now SS should then be able to pay for itself. Next comes Medicare, this one a witch but you're going to have to do something. Everyone wants it, so you're going to have to figure out a way to pay for it. Here is where EVERYONE HAS TO COMPROMISE, but everyone is also going to have to pay for it too!!!! Start with raising the tax's on the upper income people. Now here comes the Conservatives biggest argument, that's not fair!!!!!!! 47% of the population doesn't pay any tax's and the worst one of all is those illegal aliens. Those illegal aliens don't pay any tax's, all's they do is suck off the government tit. So what do you do????? Implement a regressive tax, so they can't help avoid paying for it. My favorite tax would be a Federal sales tax on all goods and services. The amount would be determined by, what ever it would take to pay for Medicare. Last big expense would be the military, you can argue all you want about how much security we really need, but what ever amount you decide, you're going to have to pay for it. Just a fact check, we spend more money on the military then the next 13 nations combined. Besides who elected us the policemen of the world. As for the misc expenses, there pretty small and irrelevant in the big picture, so let's not worry about them for now. There you have it!!!!!!! A fair and decent way to balance the budget and not cause any rioting in the streets.

[DEVOREFLYER]

At a Professional Association Chapter meeting 15 years ago we had a guest speaker talk about the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales tax. You can compare it to the present and Flat Tax plan here. http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/FairTax%20flat%20tax%20income%20comparison%20chart .pdf

Now I am sold that it is part of the answer but only part. The other part is we SPEND 40% more than we collect in revenue. We need to CUT spending. DUH!!!!!!!!!!

The only problems with the Fair Tax is the rate would be around 25% and the uninformed voter (which is most voters) would not understand and have a coronary the second point is the tax shows up immediately at the cash register and if congress raised the future rate the populace would lynch the Congress (now that's not a bad idea). The income tax is a SNEAKY tax as you pay it once a year and no one pays any attention to the changes that are made by the Congress (special interest groups).

[DockRat]

I'd tune in to watch that.
Tune in and watch this. Call 911. Sue the escalator co. Call Larry Parker. :LOL:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-C_FZ8wj4g&feature=player_embedded

[Lady Quagga]

Whether you want to believe it or not, it's coming Quagga. Those mob attacks are symptomatic of the breakdown of the fabric of our society. Even tucky himself has said several times here on the threads that this is what will happen if the "entitlements" go away. And he's right about that. Those entitlements are what is breaking the fiscal backbone of our nation whether they be corporate subsidies, foreign "aid", domestic welfare, unfunded government union pensions, etc. etc. When the progressive government runs out of money, and it will, all hell will break loose. If you can't swallow that, then it's your loss, not mine.

Those mob attacks have nothing to do with entitlements or the threat of said entitlements going away. Entitlements are no more breaking down the fabric of our society than the loss of trillions of dollars of wealth due to irresponsible economic practices endorsed by conservatives and liberals alike.


"Extreme right wing conservatives started the ball rolling" Really? Name them and please do enlighten me on exactly what those extremist policies were that got the ball rolling. The traditional center of American politics has been dragged far to the left. If you call TEA Party members right wing extremists, you are way way off base. They are constitutionalists. Are you saying our constitution is a extreme right wing document? If you do, you are hugely mistaken. The demorat party now pretty much is consisted of far left wing progressive socialists and new age communists. And some in the republican party are moderate progressive socialists, that's where the division in the repub party lies. Remember, the TEA Party folks are constitutionalists, as are the constitutional conservatives, most libertarians tend to vote repub as well. What you saw take place 5 years ago, and in 2012, was many on the right staying home and not voting because the candidates the repubs ran were nothing more that moderate progressive socialists(McCain) and in the most recent election, a far too moderate corporatist who was untrusted by millions of center right to right voters. 8-9 million registered republican voters stayed home which would have been more than enough to defeat leftist progressive socialist Obozo. Add fraud to the elections, and this is what we end up with, a corrupt, far left wing administration hell bent on "fundamentally changing" American politics and it's economic model. We aren't trying to outdo one another, we are simply cleaning out the progressive socialists. While the former democrat party does nothing except continue to attempt to destroy all those who oppose their march to advanced, or authoritarian progressive socialism.

We've had this discussion before, and I am not going to waste my time repeating the factors responsible for the economic disaster we find ourselves in now. We've gone over this for the past year, and you can look up my previous posts for the information. I will however address ONCE AGAIN your claim of constitutional conservatism. First off, your ideology was NOT shared by all of the Founding Fathers, and you saying it was doesn't make it so. Secondly, the very constitution you evoke has permitted the political, social, and fiscal environment we now find ourselves in. I never said the constitution was an extremist right-wing document. What I said is that it is counter-revolutionary - and by revolutionary, I am referring to the American Revolution, not some realpolitik nonsense. Tea Party members are in their very nature extremist, regardless of their place on the political spectrum, because they embrace an ideology to the absolute exclusion of all others. They are of course entitled to believe whatever they want to - but they are no more a grassroots organization than Lana Del Rey is an indie musician.


The progressive socialists gained a congressional majority for the last two years of president Bush's administration, they blocked any attempts at changing anything that would have stopped, or lessened the damage of the impending market crash. Then they gained a super majority for the first two years of Obozo's presidency, exactly what did they accomplish Quagga? Did they pass anything that would help bring fiscal sanity to our nation? No, we got Obozocare, the exact opposite. We got huge corporate and bank bailouts and subsidized solar energy plants that in many cases failed before they even got up and running. We've got historical numbers of joblessness, welfare and food stamp recipients. We've got more jobs leaving or disappearing altogether, and a nation full of part time workers. You Quagga, are calling the wrong side extremists. And that is telling on who exactly you are...

Sorry, but bullsh*t. Dubya willingly and wholeheartedly signed into law asinine tax cuts which are still in place today, not to mention the troubled assets program which you've been bitching about. This was done at the behest of his conservative masters - the same ones which started us down the trail to this economic fiasco.


When the repubs regained the majority in the House, it was a mandate by the people, hence the government shutdown as of late. That's called "checks and balances" which is guaranteed by our constitution. They were given the majority to stop progressive socialist programs like the disaster called Obozocare. The left absolutely hates that and will spew propaganda and misinformation like false polls in order to character assassinate anyone who gets in their way of progressing the advancement of said socialism. The progressive left would not give an inch, and was by design in order to use to destroy any opposition to their agenda. They will also destroy our economy in order to "fundamentally change" it. They've been working on that for a hundred years. Think Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Clinton, and now Obozo.

One thing folks better get used to is the fact that public health care coverage is not going anywhere. Whether it exists as the ACA, a modification thereof, or a complete revamp, it's here to stay. Will there be inefficiency with this new system? Absolutely, and it is the responsibility of our government to ensure that waste and inefficiency is minimized. But if conservatives continue to push to have the ACA repealed in it's entirety, they will find themselves drawing the ire of the public at large.

And save me the spiel about character assassination. Conservatives set about undermining Obama's administration well before he was inaugurated, and have admitted doing so. And the patron saint of conservatives turned us from the world's largest creditor into the world's largest debtor nation.


Those of us who you call "ultra right wing extremists", are trying to preserve our constitution based federal republic and it's constitution that guarantees INDIVIDUAL freedom and liberty. The progressive left socialists are attempting to "fundamentally change" it into a progressive social democracy. They are using race and economic division in order to destroy the fabric of our free society to advance Statist collectivism...

That's amusing, considering the constitution in it's original form had nothing to do with individual freedom or liberty. It was about centralizing power, determining how that centralized power would be divided, and dictating the responsibilities between the federal and various state governments. The amendments to the constitution were actually championed by individuals opposed to the constitution, and introduced as a condition of ratification. So much for the history lesson....


Oh, and by the way, if want to call those, including me, "ultra right wing extremist" for trying to save our constitution based federal REPUBLIC then so be it, I'll say "bring it"...

You said "bring it" in response to the suggestion that their would be "rioting in the streets".

[etucker1959]

At a Professional Association Chapter meeting 15 years ago we had a guest speaker talk about the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales tax. You can compare it to the present and Flat Tax plan here. http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/FairTax%20flat%20tax%20income%20comparison%20chart .pdf

Now I am sold that it is part of the answer but only part. The other part is we SPEND 40% more than we collect in revenue. We need to CUT spending. DUH!!!!!!!!!!

The only problems with the Fair Tax is the rate would be around 25% and the uninformed voter (which is most voters) would not understand and have a coronary the second point is the tax shows up immediately at the cash register and if congress raised the future rate the populace would lynch the Congress (now that's not a bad idea). The income tax is a SNEAKY tax as you pay it once a year and no one pays any attention to the changes that are made by the Congress (special interest groups).

The graduated income tax system that we have is a progressive tax. In other words it's based on the ability to pay. (Which in my opinion is the fairest) When you hear people using the word flat tax, that might as well be using the word SNAKE OR FIRE. It's a tax system to keep the rich, RICHER!!!!!!! Anyone who doesn't make over $100,000 and believes in a flat tax, is either a lackey for the rich or a fool!!!!!!! Let me explain the math for people who don't know what I'm talking about. Let's say your household Income is $500,000 a year. More then likely, unless your an idiot your doing ok. Because people don't need $500,000 a year to survive. The government feels you should pay a higher percentage of your income in Tax's. Let's just say the government highest tax rate is 42%. Now take another family and say their household income is only $50,000. You can survive on $50,000 but you have to be smart with your money. Their Income tax rate is say 28%, because they need more of their money just to survive. Let's take another family and their household income is only $25,000 a year. Their in trouble, they can barely survive. Their income tax may be as little as nothing. Now for our last example, is a family that makes $50 million dollars a year. They got so much money they don't even know what to do with it!!!! They of course are taxed at the maximum rate. Why????? Because they have the ability to pay. Now along comes these smart arses that say, "that's not a very fair system"!!!!!!! Everyone regardless of their income, should pay at the same rate or A FLAT TAX OF SAY 23% of whatever income level their at. Give me a break!!!!! Anyone who believes in that kind of system who's not rich. Must have had some terrible childhood issues on FAIRNESS!!!!! They must of kept yelling, "THAT'S NOT FAIR," "THAT'S NOT FAIR," "THAT'S NOT FAIR." lol

[DEVOREFLYER]

Frenchy did you even go to the web site and look at the data, well did you??????????

[etucker1959]

Frenchy did you even go to the web site and look at the data, well did you??????????

I was afraid of the mind controlling waves they emit. It seems like everyone who starts surfing these right wing web sites and biased articules. Soon becomes under their power and starts to believe in every thing they write. lol lol lol

[DockRat]

Soon becomes under their power and starts to believe in every thing
You fell under his power Etucker. The Chosen One.
Perfect vid for a Sunday. Written by a pastors wife and sounds like a sermon but is all about Obama and current events.

If you haven't seen this video it is a must watch how the people were brainwashed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNRT0P-oZfw&feature=player_embedded#t=170

For he is the chosen one !!! Ha Ha Ha, Hey Obama :Finger: DR
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww104/Obama44prez/ann-dunham-soetoro-barack-obama.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Obama44prez/media/ann-dunham-soetoro-barack-obama.jpg.html)http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/markomalley/FR_images/r1433985915jpgx400y281q85sig7grl1y.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/markomalley/media/FR_images/r1433985915jpgx400y281q85sig7grl1y.jpg.html)

[DockRat]

HOPEFULLY when the young and poor HAVE TO PAY for Obamacare $$$
They will wake up. And realize that the pRezident has totally F***ed them.

Most are waking up to the smoke and mirrors. Democrats, Unions all over the country are jumping off the sinking ship.

Coming soon, Obama charges in the mail. All you Dummies HAVE TO PAY $ for your mistake, LMAO.

Sorry kid, your sign is OUTDATED. All children and unborn babies now owe much more.

TOTAL DEBT PER CITIZEN IS NOW $53,760

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l574/ElvisChupacabra/Interwebz%20Goodies/100_3927.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/ElvisChupacabra/media/Interwebz%20Goodies/100_3927.jpg.html)

[HawgZWylde]

Quagga says;

"Those mob attacks have nothing to do with entitlements or the threat of said entitlements going away. Entitlements are no more breaking down the fabric of our society than the loss of trillions of dollars of wealth due to irresponsible economic practices endorsed by conservatives and liberals alike."

" irresponsible economic practices endorsed by RINO's and progressive socialists alike."

FTFY

And yes Quagga, the moral fabric of American society is indeed breaking down. And those mob attacks are proof positive.

"We've had this discussion before, and I am not going to waste my time repeating the factors responsible for the economic disaster we find ourselves in now. We've gone over this for the past year, and you can look up my previous posts for the information. I will however address ONCE AGAIN your claim of constitutional conservatism. First off, your ideology was NOT shared by all of the Founding Fathers, and you saying it was doesn't make it so. Secondly, the very constitution you evoke has permitted the political, social, and fiscal environment we now find ourselves in. I never said the constitution was an extremist right-wing document. What I said is that it is counter-revolutionary - and by revolutionary, I am referring to the American Revolution, not some realpolitik nonsense. Tea Party members are in their very nature extremist, regardless of their place on the political spectrum, because they embrace an ideology to the absolute exclusion of all others. They are of course entitled to believe whatever they want to - but they are no more a grassroots organization than Lana Del Rey is an indie musician."

One, I never said ALL the founders shared my ideology, ever. But guess what? The ones that did won out and the final document had made us the freest and most prosperous peoples in the history of the planet, in the shortest amount of time. Yup, I remember those posts, you got schooled and couldn't answer factually what indeed caused the meltdown. You couldn't even name when, and what the policies were that led up to it were created and by whom. You were only able to spew the talking points of the DNC. And brought up Hamilton. No Quagga, we find ourselves in this situation because progressives "reinterpreted" and in some cases ignored the constitution altogether through judicial activism (Roberts comes to mind here). TEA Party is extremist? For what? How? Please edumacate me in what exactly is the TEA Party charter. Bet you can't. And yes Quagga, they are indeed a "grassroots organization", all of them.

"Sorry, but bullsh*t. Dubya willingly and wholeheartedly signed into law asinine tax cuts which are still in place today, not to mention the troubled assets program which you've been bitching about. This was done at the behest of his conservative masters - the same ones which started us down the trail to this economic fiasco."

Blame Bush, hic-up. Blame Bush, hic-up. Blame Bush, hic-up. Who had the congressional majority when congress passed TARP? Tax cuts? Hmm, lets see if anyone remembers what the economy was really like when GWB was in office. Since GWB inherited a recession from "fuzzy numbers" blue dress Billy, those tax cuts helped create;
-52 straight months of job creation and growth-a historical record
-Increased tax revenue by 700 billion $$$
-A 4.5% average unemployment rate until the leftist progressives took over congress, which then all hell broke loose because they stonewalled anything and everything that would have lessened the damage caused by the impending market collapse. Do I really need to remind you when (2002) and how many times GWB warned congress they needed to fix things to avert or at least lessen the damage? Plenty of video taped speeches to be found there Quagga. But for political gain, they did nothing and BLOCKED everything. Funny thing is, Harry Reid continues to block EVERYTHING the republican House passes.

"One thing folks better get used to is the fact that public health care coverage is not going anywhere. Whether it exists as the ACA, a modification thereof, or a complete revamp, it's here to stay. Will there be inefficiency with this new system? Absolutely, and it is the responsibility of our government to ensure that waste and inefficiency is minimized. But if conservatives continue to push to have the ACA repealed in it's entirety, they will find themselves drawing the ire of the public at large."

It has to be repealed and reforms through private enterprise must be used. And just wait, once amnesty passes, we get to pay for the 30 million illegals and their tens of millions of relatives that will follow. and that doesn't include the 33 million legal 3rd world immigrants that the progressives want to increase the quota to. Who's going to pay for it eh Quagga? That number could easily go up to 70-90 MILLION legal AND illegal immigrants.

"And save me the spiel about character assassination. Conservatives set about undermining Obama's administration well before he was inaugurated, and have admitted doing so. And the patron saint of conservatives turned us from the world's largest creditor into the world's largest debtor nation."

Blah blah blah, the progressive socialists wrote the book on character assassination. Geez, they, including you are STILL assassinating Reagan for Heaven's sake. And EVERYTHING is still Bush's fault. Even though it isn't. Why, the progressives have their own bible on how to go about it that teaches them "the ends justify the means". Any lie goes to reach their goals. They worship Alinsky, indeed.

"That's amusing, considering the constitution in it's original form had nothing to do with individual freedom or liberty. It was about centralizing power, determining how that centralized power would be divided, and dictating the responsibilities between the federal and various state governments. The amendments to the constitution were actually championed by individuals opposed to the constitution, and introduced as a condition of ratification. So much for the history lesson...."

Gotta love that revised history there Quagga. It's not that they opposed anything, it's they saw things needed to be added to guarantee those pesky individual freedoms and liberties. They made sure they included "CHECKS AND BALANCES" so that things like "authoritarian progressive socialism" could not happen. What they didn't foresee was a legion of radical leftist attorneys studying constitutional law not to protect the constitution, but to subvert it through redefining the meaning of words like "what is, is". You sadly have confused history with indoctrination.


You said "bring it" in response to the suggestion that their would be "rioting in the streets".

Yes I did, and it will happen. History always repeats itself. Except the next time will be huge. So I'll say it again, BRING IT!!!

Edit

Oh look Quagga, yet another one of those non-issue mob beatings;

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-youths-attack-couple-racial-attack-cops-article-1.1490901

[HawgZWylde]

Frenchy did you even go to the web site and look at the data, well did you??????????

Of course he didn't Dev, it contains facts. They run like Frenchies from facts. Hey Dev, look at the times Quagga and tucky's posts were made. Looks like there might be some "community organizing" taking place. I can't imagine tucky coming up with that all by himself...

[HawgZWylde]

I was afraid of the mind controlling waves they emit. It seems like everyone who starts surfing these right wing web sites and biased articules. Soon becomes under their power and starts to believe in every thing they write. lol lol lol


Pssst, hey tucky, your "excesses" from the 70's are showing again. Those flashbacks are a b**ch eh tucky?

[HawgZWylde]

I will submit the following as further evidence as to many of my above posts that we are in more trouble than we are being told. Further inaction by the pResident and Congress to take VERY STRONG measures most of which are 180 degrees opposite to what the Libs want and over 50% of what the Repubs want. Fasten your seat belt it's gonna be a wild ride with a lot of casualties. It is a lengthy read and few will have the patience to read it, fewer yet will understand it's implication's.

Authored by Lacy Hunt via Casey Research,

The Fed's capabilities to engineer changes in economic growth and inflation are asymmetric. It has been historically documented that central bank tools are well suited to fight excess demand and rampant inflation; the Fed showed great resolve in containing the fast price increases in the aftermath of World Wars I and II and the Korean War. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, rampant inflation was again brought under control by a determined and persistent Federal Reserve.

However, when an economy is excessively over-indebted and disinflationary factors force central banks to cut overnight interest rates to as close to zero as possible, central bank policy is powerless to further move inflation or growth metrics. The periods between 1927 and 1939 in the U.S. (and elsewhere), and from 1989 to the present in Japan, are clear examples of the impotence of central bank policy actions during periods of over-indebtedness.

Four considerations suggest the Fed will continue to be unsuccessful in engineering increasing growth and higher inflation with their continuation of the current program of Large Scale Asset Purchases (LSAP):

•First, the Fed's forecasts have consistently been too optimistic, which indicates that their knowledge of how LSAP operates is flawed. LSAP obviously is not working in the way they had hoped, and they are unable to make needed course corrections.
•Second, debt levels in the U.S. are so excessive that monetary policy's traditional transmission mechanism is broken.
•Third, recent scholarly studies, all employing different rigorous analytical methods, indicate LSAP is ineffective.
•Fourth, the velocity of money has slumped, and that trend will continue—which deprives the Fed of the ability to have a measurable influence on aggregate economic activity and is an alternative way of confirming the validity of the aforementioned academic studies.
1. The Fed does not understand how LSAP operates

If the Fed were consistently getting the economy right, then we could conclude that their understanding of current economic conditions is sound. However, if they regularly err, then it is valid to argue that they are misunderstanding the way their actions affect the economy.

During the current expansion, the Fed's forecasts for real GDP and inflation have been consistently above the actual numbers. Late last year, the midpoint of the Fed's central tendency forecast projected an increase in real GDP of 2.7% for 2013—the way it looks now, this estimate could miss the mark by nearly 50%.

One possible reason why the Fed have consistently erred on the high side in their growth forecasts is that they assume higher stock prices will lead to higher spending via the so-called wealth effect. The Fed's ad hoc analysis on this subject has been wrong and is in conflict with econometric studies. The studies suggest that when wealth rises or falls, consumer spending does not generally respond, or if it does respond, it does so feebly. During the run-up of stock and home prices over the past three years, the year-over-year growth in consumer spending has actually slowed sharply from over 5% in early 2011 to just 2.9% in the four quarters ending Q2.

Reliance on the wealth effect played a major role in the Fed's poor economic forecasts. LSAP has not been able to spur growth and achieve the Fed's forecasts to date, and it certainly undermines the Fed's continued assurances that this time will truly be different.

2. US debt is so high that Fed policies cannot gain traction

Another impediment to LSAP's success is the Fed's failure to consider that excessive debt levels block the main channel of monetary influence on economic activity. Scholarly studies published in the past three years document that economic growth slows when public and private debt exceeds 260% to 275% of GDP. In the U.S., from 1870 until the late 1990s, real GDP grew by 3.7% per year. It was during 2000 that total debt breached the 260% level. Since 2000, growth has averaged a much slower 1.8% per year.

Once total debt moved into this counterproductive zone, other far-reaching and unintended consequences became evident. The standard of living, as measured by real median household income, began to stagnate and now stands at the lowest point since 1995. Additionally, since the start of the current economic expansion, real median household income has fallen 4.3%, which is totally unprecedented. Moreover, both the wealth and income divides in the U.S. have seriously worsened.

Over-indebtedness is the primary reason for slower growth, and unfortunately, so far the Fed's activities have had nothing but negative, unintended consequences.

3. Academic studies indicate the Fed's efforts are ineffectual

Another piece of evidence that points toward monetary ineffectiveness is the academic research indicating that LSAP is a losing proposition. The United States now has had five years to evaluate the efficacy of LSAP, during which time the Fed's balance sheet has increased a record fourfold.

It is undeniable that the Fed has conducted an all-out effort to restore normal economic conditions. However, while monetary policy works with a lag, the LSAP has been in place since 2008 with no measurable benefit. This lapse of time is now far greater than even the longest of the lags measured in the extensive body of scholarly work regarding monetary policy.

Three different studies by respected academicians have independently concluded that indeed these efforts have failed. These studies, employing various approaches, have demonstrated that LSAP cannot shift the Aggregate Demand (AD) Curve. The AD curve intersects the Aggregate Supply Curve to determine the aggregate price level and real GDP and thus nominal GDP. The AD curve is not responding to monetary actions, therefore the price level and real GDP, and thus nominal GDP, are stuck—making the actions of the Fed irrelevant.

The papers I am talking about were presented at the Jackson Hole Monetary Conference in August 2013. The first is by Robert E. Hall, one of the world's leading econometricians and a member of the prestigious NBER Cycle Dating Committee. He wrote, "The combination of low investment and low consumption resulted in an extraordinary decline in output demand, which called for a markedly negative real interest rate, one unattainable because the zero lower bound on the nominal interest rate coupled with low inflation put a lower bound on the real rate at only a slightly negative level."

Dr. Hall also wrote the following about the large increase in reserves to finance quantitative easing: "An expansion of reserves contracts the economy." In other words, not only have the Fed not improved matters, they have actually made economic conditions worse with their experiments. Additionally, Dr. Hall presented evidence that forward guidance and GDP targeting both have serious problems and that central bankers should focus on requiring more capital at banks and more rigorous stress testing.

The next paper is by Hyun Song Shin, another outstanding monetary theorist and econometrician and holder of an endowed chair at Princeton University. He looked at the weighted-average effective one-year rate for loans with moderate risk at all commercial banks, the effective Fed Funds rate, and the spread between the two in order to evaluate Dr. Hall's study. He also evaluated comparable figures in Europe. In both the U.S. and Europe these spreads increased, supporting Hall's analysis.

Dr. Shin also examined quantities such as total credit to U.S. non-financial businesses. He found that lending to non-corporate businesses, which rely on the banks, has been essentially stagnant. Dr. Shin states, "The trouble is that job creation is done most by new businesses, which tend to be small." Thus, he found "disturbing implications for the effectiveness of central bank asset purchases" and supported Hall's conclusions.

Dr. Shin argued that we should not forget how we got into this mess in the first place when he wrote, "Things were not right in the financial system before the crisis, leverage was too high, and the banking sector had become too large." For us, this insight is highly relevant since aggregate debt levels relative to GDP are greater now than in 2007. Dr. Shin, like Dr. Hall, expressed extreme doubts that forward guidance was effective in bringing down longer-term interest rates.

The last paper is by Arvind Krishnamurthy of Northwestern University and Annette Vissing-Jorgensen of the University of California, Berkeley. They uncovered evidence that the Fed's LSAP program had little "portfolio balance" impact on other interest rates and was not macro-stimulus. A limited benefit did result from mortgage-backed securities purchases due to the announcement effects, but even this small plus may be erased once the still unknown exit costs are included.

Drs. Krishnamurthy and Vissing-Jorgensen also criticized the Fed for not having a clear policy rule or strategy for asset purchases. They argued that the absence of concrete guidance as to the goal of asset purchases, which has been vaguely defined as aimed toward substantial improvement in the outlook for the labor market, neutralizes their impact and complicates an eventual exit. Further, they wrote, "Without such a framework, investors do not know the conditions under which (asset buys) will occur or be unwound." For Krishnamurthy and Vissing-Jorgensen, this "undercuts the efficacy of policy targeted at long-term asset values."

4. The velocity of money—outside the Fed's control

The last problem the Fed faces in their LSAP program is their inability to control the velocity of money. The AD curve is planned expenditures for nominal GDP. Nominal GDP is equal to the velocity of money (V) multiplied by the stock of money (M), thus GDP = M x V. This is Irving Fisher's equation of exchange, one of the important pillars of macroeconomics.

V peaked in 1997, as private and public debt were quickly approaching the nonproductive zone. Since then it has plunged. The level of velocity in the second quarter is at its lowest level in six decades. By allowing high debt levels to accumulate from the 1990s until 2007, the Fed laid the foundation for rendering monetary policy ineffectual. Thus, Fisher was correct when he argued in 1933 that declining velocity would be a symptom of extreme indebtedness just as much as weak aggregate demand.

Fisher was able to make this connection because he understood Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk's brilliant insight that debt is future consumption denied. Also, we have the benefit of Hyman Minsky's observation that debt must be able to generate an income stream to repay principal and interest, thereby explaining that there is such a thing as good (productive) debt as opposed to bad (non-productive) debt. Therefore, the decline in money velocity when there are very high levels of debt to GDP should not be surprising. Moreover, as debt increases, so does the risk that it will be unable to generate the income stream required to pay principal and interest.

Perhaps well intended, but ill advised

The Fed's relentless buying of massive amounts of securities has produced no positive economic developments, but has had significant negative, unintended consequences.

For example, banks have a limited amount of capital with which to take risks with their portfolio. With this capital, they have two broad options: First, they can confine their portfolio to their historical lower-risk role of commercial banking operations—the making of loans and standard investments. With interest rates at extremely low levels, however, the profit potential from such endeavors is minimal.

Second, they can allocate resources to their proprietary trading desks to engage in leveraged financial or commodity market speculation. By their very nature, these activities are potentially far more profitable but also much riskier. Therefore, when money is allocated to the riskier alternative in the face of limited bank capital, less money is available for traditional lending. This deprives the economy of the funds needed for economic growth, even though the banks may be able to temporarily improve their earnings by aggressive risk taking.

Perversely, confirming the point made by Dr. Hall, a rise in stock prices generated by excess reserves may sap, rather than supply, funds needed for economic growth.

Incriminating evidence: the money multiplier

It is difficult to determine for sure whether funds are being sapped, but one visible piece of evidence confirms that this is the case: the unprecedented downward trend in the money multiplier.

The money multiplier is the link between the monetary base (high-powered money) and the money supply (M2); it is calculated by dividing the base into M2. Today the monetary base is $3.5 trillion, and M2 stands at $10.8 trillion. The money multiplier is 3.1. In 2008, prior to the Fed's massive expansion of the monetary base, the money multiplier stood at 9.3, meaning that $1 of base supported $9.30 of M2.

If reserves created by LSAP were spreading throughout the economy in the traditional manner, the money multiplier should be more stable. However, if those reserves were essentially funding speculative activity, the money would remain with the large banks and the money multiplier would fall. This is the current condition.

The September 2013 level of 3.1 is the lowest in the entire 100-year history of the Federal Reserve. Until the last five years, the money multiplier never dropped below the old historical low of 4.5 reached in late 1940. Thus, LSAP may have produced the unintended consequence of actually reducing economic growth.

Stock market investors benefited, but this did not carry through to the broader economy. The net result is that LSAP worsened the gap between high- and low-income households. When policy makers try untested theories, risks are almost impossible to anticipate.

The near-term outlook

Economic growth should be very poor in the final months of 2013. Growth is unlikely to exceed 1%—that is even less than the already anemic 1.6% rate of growth in the past four quarters.

Marked improvement in 2014 is also questionable. Nominal interest rates have increased this year, and real yields have risen even more sharply because the inflation rate has dropped significantly. Due to the recognition and implementation lags, only half of the 2013 tax increase of $275 billion will have been registered by the end of the year, with the remaining impact to come in 2014 and 2015.

Additionally, parts of this year's tax increase could carry a negative multiplier of two to three. Currently, many of the taxes and other cost burdens of the Affordable Care Act are in the process of being shifted from corporations and profitable small businesses to households, thus serving as a de facto tax increase. In such conditions, the broadest measures of inflation, which are barely exceeding 1%, should weaken further. Since LSAP does not constitute macro-stimulus, its continuation is equally meaningless. Therefore, the decision of the Fed not to taper makes no difference for the outlook for economic growth.

Whew, that's a read Dev. I got it, and man things are not looking good at all. Especially when half the country has no clue and only follows soundbites and talking points. Progressives are like frogs in a pan of water, they'll sit in it while the water heats up until they get boiled, which by then getting out of it is too late. Sad how those who wish to fix the problems are ridiculed (Tea Party, constitutional conservatives), while progressives (tucky, Quagga) want to keep compounding it by adding fiscal disasters like Obozocare. Speaking of Quagga, why no comment from it regarding this post?

[HawgZWylde]

OH NO, SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

Even Oprah isn’t on board with ObamaCare;

As the White House was gearing up to sell ObamaCare to the American people last summer, Valerie Jarrett, the president’s pointwoman on a host of issues, phoned Oprah Winfrey.

She invited the Queen of All Media to join celebrities, including Amy Poehler, Jennifer Hudson and Alicia Keys, to meet with President Obama and discuss how they could generate publicity for his health-care law.

“All of Oprah’s top people thought she would go, because when the president invites you to the White House, most people automatically say yes,” said one of Oprah’s closest advisers. “But Oprah said she didn’t have the time or inclination to go. It wasn’t like she had to think it over. It was an immediate, flat-out, unequivocal no.”

Instead, Oprah sent a low-level rep from one of her talent agencies, which was regarded as a insult. Obama had been counting on Oprah’s immense persuasive powers to help enroll millions in ObamaCare. But as the rollout turned into a disaster, Oprah didn’t lift a finger to help.

The story of why Oprah has changed her tune and gone AWOL on ObamaCare goes well beyond mere gossip. It speaks volumes about the convergence of celebrity and politics under Obama and about a president who thinks nothing of using and then discarding his most loyal supporters.

Everyone remembers that Oprah went all out for Obama during the 2008 presidential election. What was not reported was that, in return, Oprah was promised unique access to the White House if Obama won. She’d get regular briefings on initiatives and a heads-up on programs to give her material for her fledgling cable network, OWN.

“Oprah intended to make her unique White House access a part of her new network,” a source close to Oprah told me. “There were big plans, and a team was put together to come up with proposals that would have been mutually beneficial.

“But none of that ever happened. Oprah sent notes and a rep to talk to Valerie Jarrett, but nothing came of it. It slowly dawned on Oprah that the Obamas had absolutely no intention of keeping their word and bringing her into their confidence.”

Oprah did not campaign for Obama in the 2012 race, and she has been absent from his battles on gun control, immigration reform and the environment. She claims she is too busy to get involved in politics, even though she hosted a fund-raiser for Newark Mayor Cory Booker, who won a US Senate seat last week.

Oprah’s friends publicly dismiss the idea that she had a falling out with Obama. They note that she phoned Michelle Obama right after the 2012 election to congratulate her. They say Michelle invited her to have dinner with the first family. But the dinner never took place, and Oprah continues to be frozen out.

“Oprah was hoping there would be a genuine change in the atmospherics,” one of her friends told me. “But there hasn’t been. Clearly, she is being rebuffed at the level of Michelle and Valerie. And, just as obviously, President Obama hasn’t interfered on Oprah’s behalf.”

During Obama’s first term, I argued in my book “The Amateur” that Michelle was jealous of Oprah, furious that he was seeking her advice.

“For her part, Oprah doesn’t like being with Michelle, because the first lady is constantly one-upping the president and anybody else around her,” said an Oprah adviser.

“Oprah has struck back by banning the Obamas from her O, The Oprah Magazine . . . It probably hurts Oprah more than Obama, who, if he had his head screwed on straight, would have flown to California and begged Oprah to help him save ObamaCare.

“But Obama hasn’t budged, and neither has Oprah. She’s hurt and angry, and I seriously doubt that Oprah will ever make up with the Obamas. She knows how to hold a grudge.”

http://nypost.com/2013/10/20/even-oprah-isnt-on-board-with-obamacare/

And another one's gone, and another one's gone, and another one jumps the bus...

[DEVOREFLYER]

And the wheels on the bus go BUMP, BUMP, BUMP. LMFAO

[HawgZWylde]

And the wheels on the bus go BUMP, BUMP, BUMP. LMFAO

You know what's going to be a gas to watch Dev? When Her Hilariousness's campaign "officially" begins and watching Obozo himself going under the bus. Although it's already starting;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/19/Hillary-takes-veiled-shots-at-Obama-in-McAuliffe-endorsement-speech

I'm also going to enjoy the watching the "old guard" progressives and neo's in the repub party get a boot up their arses when they get primary'd by the various factions of constitutionalists. Oh this is going to be a hell of an election season...

[etucker1959]

Whew, that's a read Dev. I got it, and man things are not looking good at all. Especially when half the country has no clue and only follows soundbites and talking points. Progressives are like frogs in a pan of water, they'll sit in it while the water heats up until they get boiled, which by then getting out of it is too late. Sad how those who wish to fix the problems are ridiculed (Tea Party, constitutional conservatives), while progressives (tucky, Quagga) want to keep compounding it by adding fiscal disasters like Obozocare. Speaking of Quagga, why no comment from it regarding this post?
FIX THE PROBLEM, I'm all ears!!!!!!! This is the difference between myself and the Conservatives, I think as an AMERICAN citizen first and as a member of a political party 2nd. If the Republicans come up with a great idea, COUNT ME IN!!!!!! The Conservatives on the other hand (Tea Party) will support NOTHING the President proposes. So how can you work with people like that??????? Remember their famous theme song, if you're in favor of it, WE ARE AGAINST IT!!!!!!!!!!!

PS It's a SHE not an it. What Conservatives weren't raised with any manners???

[HawgZWylde]

FIX THE PROBLEM, I'm all ears!!!!!!! This is the difference between myself and the Conservatives, I think as an AMERICAN citizen first and as a member of a political party 2nd. If the Republicans come up with a great idea, COUNT ME IN!!!!!! The Conservatives on the other hand (Tea Party) will support NOTHING the President proposes. So how can you work with people like that??????? Remember their famous theme song, if you're in favor of it, WE ARE AGAINST IT!!!!!!!!!!!

PS It's a SHE not an it. What Conservatives weren't raised with any manners???

Pssst, hey tucky, we're Americans too, remember? And we are the ones fighting to STOP the very things that are causing the problems. And the end runs around the constitution, remember? And we've suggested many things but YOU WILL NOT LISTEN. This pResident doesn't have any proposals worth listening to. He's a progressive socialist remember? They don't believe in free market capitalism, we do...


It's a she? Hmmm, how do you know tucky, ya met her?

[etucker1959]

Pssst, hey tucky, we're Americans too, remember? And we are the ones fighting to STOP the very things that are causing the problems. And the end runs around the constitution, remember? And we've suggested many things but YOU WILL NOT LISTEN. This pResident doesn't have any proposals worth listening to. He's a progressive socialist remember? They don't believe in free market capitalism, we do...


It's a she? Hmmm, how do you know tucky, ya met her?

I think their been a recent sighting by one of the Bako Boy's. It might just be a rumor, but I give them full credibility. On the issue of Free market Capitalism, is this the same Free market Capitalism that has allowed a huge percent of the nations wealth to accumulate in the hands of a very few???????? Remember 1% of the population own's 24% of the nations wealth and that number is climbing. Adam Smith, the Author of Laissez faire Capitalism said, "if the wealth of a nation ends up in the hands of a few, then that form of capitalism is a Failure." A Failed system and you want to protect that system. Riiiiight!!!!!!!

[HawgZWylde]

I think their been a recent sighting by one of the Bako Boy's. It might just be a rumor, but I give them full credibility. On the issue of Free market Capitalism, is this the same Free market Capitalism that has allowed a huge percent of the nations wealth to accumulate in the hands of a very few???????? Remember 1% of the population own's 24% of the nations wealth and that number is climbing. Adam Smith, the Author of Laissez faire Capitalism said, "if the wealth of a nation ends up in the hands of a few, then that form of capitalism is a Failure." A Failed system and you want to protect that system. Riiiiight!!!!!!!

No tucky, what you describe is CRONY capitalism. Progressives thrive on it. Especially leftist progressives. You either are completely not understanding, or you are spinnig, which is it?

[etucker1959]

No tucky, what you describe is CRONY capitalism. Progressives thrive on it. Especially leftist progressives. You either are completely not understanding, or you are spinnig, which is it?

Are we back to talking about that period in time, which you can't seem to remember actually when that was. Where Free market Capitalism existed and those NO GOOD PROGRESSIVES took it away from the people. You yearn to go back to whenever that was, OK I'll stop!! I do pay attention, but your talking about a theory that no one will ever buy.

[HawgZWylde]

Are we back to talking about that period in time, which you can't seem to remember actually when that was. Where Free market Capitalism existed and those NO GOOD PROGRESSIVES took it away from the people. You yearn to go back to whenever that was, OK I'll stop!! I do pay attention, but your talking about a theory that no one will ever buy.

You obviously haven't a clue...

[DEVOREFLYER]

Let me see if I can remember a few American Inventors/Capitalists that risked all they had to make life better for all of us. Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, Steve Jobs, Thomas Jefferson, Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, Charles Goodyear, John Stettson, Samuel Colt, John Browning, George Westinghouse, Levi Strauss, George Eastman, Willis Carrier, Clarence Birdseye, Bill Gates, Jonas Salk, Eli Whitney, Booker T. Washington to name just a few. Evil Capitalists as judged by those on the left, I doubt that many if any would have flourished under a Socialist or Progressive system.


And I almost forgot your favorite “Edwin Perkins the inventor of Kool-aid”.

[Lady Quagga]

" irresponsible economic practices endorsed by conservatives and progressive socialists alike."

FTFY

Um, no - fixed that for you. More on this later.


And yes Quagga, the moral fabric of American society is indeed breaking down. And those mob attacks are proof positive.

Once again: Those mob attacks have nothing to do with entitlements or the threat of said entitlements going away. Entitlements are no more breaking down the fabric of our society than the loss of trillions of dollars of wealth due to irresponsible economic practices endorsed by conservatives and liberals alike.


One, I never said ALL the founders shared my ideology, ever.

And yet you blanketly evoke them every chance you get.


But guess what? The ones that did won out and the final document had made us the freest and most prosperous peoples in the history of the planet, in the shortest amount of time.

You're missing the point. It was the anti-federalists who were responsible for those parts which actually outlined our rights and freedoms. The bulk of the constitution was an (admittedly ingenious) instruction manual.


Yup, I remember those posts, you got schooled and couldn't answer factually what indeed caused the meltdown. You couldn't even name when, and what the policies were that led up to it were created and by whom. You were only able to spew the talking points of the DNC.

The DNC? This may come as a shock to you - especially since the bulk of information you provide is regurgitated dreck from conservative pundits, but I don't rely on websites to formulate my opinions. I do provide references to facts which are not in dispute in order to support my point of view on various issues. And getting schooled? Please. You failed to read my responses or chose to ignore them, as you are wont to do.


And brought up Hamilton. No Quagga, we find ourselves in this situation because progressives "reinterpreted" and in some cases ignored the constitution altogether through judicial activism (Roberts comes to mind here). TEA Party is extremist? For what? How? Please edumacate me in what exactly is the TEA Party charter. Bet you can't. And yes Quagga, they are indeed a "grassroots organization", all of them.

Still scratching your head about Hamilton, or how he relates to our modern economic picture? Not surprising.

As yes, "judicial activism". Which is code for, "I didn't like his decision and now I am going to stomp my feet about it, because I ended up on the minority end of the stick." Boo hoo.

Grassroots? More like astroturf. But hey, if you like being a dupe for billionaires with an ax to grind, be my guest.


Blame Bush, hic-up. Blame Bush, hic-up. Blame Bush, hic-up. Who had the congressional majority when congress passed TARP? Tax cuts? Hmm, lets see if anyone remembers what the economy was really like when GWB was in office. Since GWB inherited a recession from "fuzzy numbers" blue dress Billy, those tax cuts helped create;
-52 straight months of job creation and growth-a historical record
-Increased tax revenue by 700 billion $$$
-A 4.5% average unemployment rate until the leftist progressives took over congress, which then all hell broke loose because they stonewalled anything and everything that would have lessened the damage caused by the impending market collapse. Do I really need to remind you when (2002) and how many times GWB warned congress they needed to fix things to avert or at least lessen the damage? Plenty of video taped speeches to be found there Quagga. But for political gain, they did nothing and BLOCKED everything. Funny thing is, Harry Reid continues to block EVERYTHING the republican House passes.

Aw, hiccuping, how cute. Anything to deflect away from Dubya's responsibility in this mess, eh? Bush signed TARP at the behest of his conservative handlers; regardless of which party controlled Congress, he could have vetoed it and forced Congress to override it. He didn't, and the responsibility falls on him equally. And 2002? the period which saw the Bush Tax cuts and an increase in defense spending, which was in part responsible for continuing our budget deficits and increasing of the national debt? And yes, I know what the economy was like during his first term. It was on the heels of the last economic bubble, one which I had the unfortunate luck of being a casualty of. C'est la vie, as they say, but it should have served as a warning to everyone what happens when "Wall Street" goes unchecked and we rely on the myth of a self-correcting economy. And once again, both sides have been notorious for blocking legislative action. What's truly despicable was conservative's plans to undermine the Obama presidency before he even assumed office.

"One thing folks better get used to is the fact that public health care coverage is not going anywhere. Whether it exists as the ACA, a modification thereof, or a complete revamp, it's here to stay. Will there be inefficiency with this new system? Absolutely, and it is the responsibility of our government to ensure that waste and inefficiency is minimized. But if conservatives continue to push to have the ACA repealed in it's entirety, they will find themselves drawing the ire of the public at large."


Blah blah blah, the progressive socialists wrote the book on character assassination. Geez, they, including you are STILL assassinating Reagan for Heaven's sake. And EVERYTHING is still Bush's fault. Even though it isn't. Why, the progressives have their own bible on how to go about it that teaches them "the ends justify the means". Any lie goes to reach their goals. They worship Alinsky, indeed.

How do you find the single conservative in a room full of liberals? It'll be the only person bringing up Alinsky.


Gotta love that revised history there Quagga. It's not that they opposed anything, it's they saw things needed to be added to guarantee those pesky individual freedoms and liberties. They made sure they included "CHECKS AND BALANCES" so that things like "authoritarian progressive socialism" could not happen. What they didn't foresee was a legion of radical leftist attorneys studying constitutional law not to protect the constitution, but to subvert it through redefining the meaning of words like "what is, is". You sadly have confused history with indoctrination.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. There was significant opposition to ratification, in part because of anti-federalist sentiment, in part because the constitution did nothing to protect or preserve individual rights and freedoms. The checks and balances outlined by our constitution were created to ensure no single branch gained dominance over the others. But by it's very design, the constitution allowed for significant and radical changes to be made to the document itself. No "subversion" is necessary. You cry indoctrination, yet fail to understand that the very thing which gives the constitution its power is its ability to be interpreted, reinterpreted, and even modified beyond anything anticipated by the Founding Fathers.


Yes I did, and it will happen. History always repeats itself. Except the next time will be huge. So I'll say it again, BRING IT!!!

So, you anticipate and would embrace widespread civil violence. Thanks for the clarification.

[seal]

Where's Etucker? Come on aren't you gonna post a reply like "That was epic!" or "Greatest response ever!" or "Quagga is the second coming!" or "I need to go change my shorts, I'm so excited!" or "She is so hot!" or "Lefty's rule!" or "Hillary for President!" or "Quagga for President!".

Welcome back LQ.

[etucker1959]

Where's Etucker? Come on aren't you gonna post a reply like "That was epic!" or "Greatest response ever!" or "Quagga is the second coming!" or "I need to go change my shorts, I'm so excited!" or "She is so hot!" or "Lefty's rule!" or "Hillary for President!" or "Quagga for President!".

Welcome back LQ.
I think it's very nice Seal that you noticed, "I admire intelligent responses." If HawgZ was in Congress, nobody but the very astute would even know what the heck he is talking about half the time. lol Let alone vote in favor of what he is proposing.

[HawgZWylde]

I think it's very nice Seal that you noticed, "I admire intelligent responses." If HawgZ was in Congress, nobody but the very astute would even know what the heck he is talking about half the time. lol Let alone vote in favor of what he is proposing.

as·tute
əˈst(y)o͞ot/
adjective
adjective: astute; comparative adjective: astuter; superlative adjective: astutest

1.
having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage.

I have a challenge for you tucky. If you have paid attention and understood an iota of anything I or Dev have posted and you claim nobody would vote for anything "I have proposed", please accurately list five of those supposed "proposals" and their definitions. I'll even set up the frame for your answers;

1-



2-



3-



4-



5-



Please show us your supreme intelligence, common sense, and learning capability by filling in the blanks...

[etucker1959]

as·tute
əˈst(y)o͞ot/
adjective
adjective: astute; comparative adjective: astuter; superlative adjective: astutest

1.
having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage.

I have a challenge for you tucky. If you have paid attention and understood an iota of anything I or Dev have posted and you claim nobody would vote for anything "I have proposed", please accurately list five of those supposed "proposals" and their definitions. I'll even set up the frame for your answers;

1-



2-



3-



4-



5-



Please show us your supreme intelligence, common sense, and learning capability by filling in the blanks...

I was trying to bait you into a discussion about how DUMB our law maker's and interpreter's of the law really are. For example Supreme Court Justice Skulealy (I have no idea how to spell this guy's name) recently said, "in modern times you don't see much evidence of the Devil." What he expects to see super natural things occurring all the time attributed to the Devil!!!!!! The worst part is he counts for two votes on the Supreme court. Why 2 votes???? Because Justice Clarence Thomas is so dumb, (you might also know him as long dong silver) he just looks at the other guy and votes the same way. Now that is SCARY!!!!!!! Our laws and interpretation of our Constitution is being interrupted by a guy who is looking for the DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HawgZWylde]

Quagga and tucky;

Daniel Martin Gray is the author of this article and is a former Progressive who saw the light, turning from the dark side over decades, to become a Constitutionalist. His family that remained in Europe was nearly wiped out by the Holocaust. They refused to believe that tyranny could happen there. He sees America marching “Forward” on that same road, exactly as our Founders warned us against.

WASHINGTON, October 20, 2013 ― Half of America thinks it is “progressive,” or at least it votes that way. Many voters buy the biased tripe about the Tea Party sold by the bought-and-paid-for mainstream media. But look deeper and you will find where America’s hearts and minds are really at. It’s quite the opposite of what you’ve been told.

Ask these questions of anyone, anyone at all:


1- Do you believe you have the right to do what you want with your life, without interference, unless you cause actual harm to others?

2- Do you believe you have the right to keep what you earn, to use as you see fit?

3- Do you believe that any person can be trusted with unlimited power over you and your family?

4- Do you believe it wise to incur massive debt, short of dire emergency?

Almost everyone answers “yes” to 1 and 2, “no” to 3 and 4.

Some might be hesitant and ask for explanations.

1- “What do you mean by harm?” Harm is not only acts like violence to others. It includes damage to resources held in trust for all Americans. Dumping poison in a stream, violation of contract, making false reports and misleading commercial speech are all examples of harm that can and should be dealt with by government. Opposing, insulting or offending others with truth is not. The nannystate cannot wisely regulate 300 million individual paths.

2- Some will insist that people should “pay their fair share.” Ask them who determines what we should pay for in the first place; who decides how much is fair. How much of their own income would they consider fair game for confiscation? With little left after taxes, how can individuals freely choose to support causes of their choice? Social Justice for all means no justice for any.

3- Anyone who says “yes” to this is either a liar or an utter fool. Ask them for their PIN numbers and passwords. When they say no, remind them of your relationship. Ask why they would trust a faceless bureaucrat with power they refuse a friend. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

4- Many require clarification on this one. Suppose you own a home worth $150,000, with $100,000 in equity, and the roof starts leaking. Repairs would cost $5,000, but you’re living paycheck to paycheck. It would be shortsighted not to incur debt for this purpose. You could lose all that hard-earned equity and the very roof over your head. But getting a second and third mortgage to pay for cigarettes or a new flat-screen is fiscal folly that fails.


No matter what you call yourself, no matter what you think you believe, if you’re like most Americans, you believe in the Constitution of the United States of America, as originally envisioned by our Founders.

Welcome to the party. Have some tea!


And you both would ridicule and demean those who feel and believe the same as Mr. Grey? Such as myself? And since you both find ways of putting words into someones mouth who is defending our nation and it's constitution, what does that make you both? I know the answer, and you two will never admit it...

[HawgZWylde]

tucky, here some of those polls you love to quote;

Public Approval of Health Care Law
CNN/Opinion Research
For/Favor 41
Against/Oppose 56
Against/Oppose +15.0


Public Approval of Health Care Law
ABC News/Wash Post
For/Favor 46
Against/Oppose 49
Against/Oppose +3.0


President Obama Job Approval
CNN/Opinion Research
Approve 43
Disapprove 53
Disapprove +10.0


President Obama Job Approval
Gallup
Approve 43
Disapprove 51
Disapprove +8.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Here is the text of a speech given by David Horowitz, you know the guy raised by Communist parents and was a radical lefty that crossed over to the DARK SIDE.

ENJOY!!!!!!!!

I was born at the beginning of the Second World War into a family of high school teachers who were members of the Communist Party, and therefore were actually part of a vast conspiracy dedicated to the destruction of this country, although they would never have looked at it that way, and so-called liberals would be the first to deny it.

In those days, the schools were old fashioned enough that my parents did not use their classrooms to indoctrinate students as tens of thousands of university professors and even more K-12 teachers regularly do today. It is also an unhappy but hugely important fact that the conspiracy to which my parents belonged has steadily migrated into the heart of the Democratic Party until it now occupies the Oval Office in the person of our president, Barack Obama, and his closest advisors.

The president, his chief operative Valerie Jarrett and his chief political strategist David Axelrod all came out of the same Communist left and the same radical new left as I did, and all have remained heart and soul a part of it. As someone who turned his back on that destructive movement, I can say with confidence that they have not. If a person belongs to an organization or is the supporter of an idea that they come to see as destructive or evil, the first thing they will want to do when they leave is to warn others against it, to warn them of the dangers it represents. If a person does not do this – that tells me that he or she hasn’t left the destructive movement or abandoned the pernicious idea but has just put another face on them. Instead of calling themselves communists or socialists they call themselves liberals and progressives. This camouflage is very old. I never once heard my parents and their party friends refer to themselves as Communists. They wereprogressives – and registered Democrats.

This is why – to take one disturbing example, I know that Hillary Clinton’s right hand, Huma Abedin, the former deputy secretary of state, and chief foreign policy adviser on Muslim Affairs is a Muslim Brotherhood operative. Huma Abedin’s late father was a Muslim Brotherhood leader, and her mother and brother still are. For 12 years until the moment she was hired by Hillary, Huma Abedin worked for Abdullah Omar Naseef, one of the top three funders of Osama Bin Laden who is still wanted by our government for his role in the 9/11 attacks.

Huma Abedin has never to my knowledge uttered a word of disapproval about the Muslim Brotherhood’s desire to rid the world of Christians and Jews or to bring all infidels under the heel of totalitarian Islamic law. Her spiritual adviser Yusef al-Qaradawi is the spiritual leader of the Brotherhood. Qaradawi has publicly said that the Holocaust of the Jews was God’s punishment for their corruption, and that it would come again, and when it did, “Allah willing it will be at the hands of the believers.” Huma Abedin has not broken her relations with this evil man or dissociated herself from his genocidal remarks. Nor has she opposed the policies enacted by Obama and Hillary, which have supported the Muslim Brotherhood at home and in the Middle East.

On the contrary. when the Obama administration supported the Brotherhood’s rise to power in Egypt, Huma Abedin was our government’s key adviser on Muslim affairs. She was at Hillary’s side when security was not provided to our diplomatic complex in Benghazi and when al-Qaeda fanatics murdered our Ambassador. The murder of Ambassador Stevens led to the most shameful presidential act in our history when the President turned his back on the cries for help of three American heroes who served him and who were in a desperate fight for their lives. It is a time honored American code never to abandon our warriors on the field of battle. But America’s commander-in-chief turned his back on these brave fighting men and left them to die; and then lied to the American people to cover up his crime.

Ever since Barack Obama was elected and began his radical course, American conservatives have been in a state of shock, as though they couldn’t quite believe what was happening. Until then there had been a general collusion in the practiced deceptions of the left as commentators on all sides would refer to unrepentant radicals, and dedicated socialists as “liberals,” and turn half blind eyes to their anti-American agendas. What is “liberal” about the mean-spirited intolerant people of the left, except their attitude to hard drugs, sex, and criminal behavior? Oh yes, and spending other people’s money?

Today the Obama juggernaut is systematically bankrupting our country, and undoing our constitutional arrangements. Its contempt for consultative and representative government is relentlessly on display. This week Senate Majority leader Harry Reid defended his refusal to negotiate with Republicans over Obamacare and the debt in these words: “We are here to support the federal government. That’s our job.” End quote. Forget about representing the people whom our Founders made sovereign. Forget what America is about.

The fact that I had a radical past allowed me to see much of this coming. But even I never thought we would be looking so soon at the prospect of a one-party state. Those words may sound hyperbolic, but take a moment to think about it. If you have transformed the taxing agency of the state into a political weapon – and Obama has; if you are setting up a massive government program to gather the financial and health information of every citizen, and control their access to care; and if you have a spy agency that can read the mail and listen to the communications of every individual in the country, you don’t really need a secret police to destroy your political opponents. Once you have silenced them, you can proceed with your plans to remake the world in your image.


The good news is that the bad five years we have just been through have aroused a sleeping giant among Americans who didn’t see it coming and couldn’t imagine that it would. For the first time since the Cold War, people with a public voice are calling socialists by their right name; conservatives are finally organizing at the grassroots to defend their freedom; and at last we have leaders who are willing to stand up to the thuggery of the left and who have the spine not to back down.

As a sometime Jonah freed from the whale let me offer some intelligence about the political forces arrayed against us. Do not make the mistake of thinking that progressives and conservatives are people who merely differ about practical agendas. There are four defining features of the left, which distinguish it as a movement of individuals who approach politics quite differently from pragmatically-minded conservatives.

The first of these features is their alienation from country: If you ask progressives about their patriotic feeling, they will tell you that they don’t think of themselves first as Americans but as “citizens of the world.” That even has a Harvard imprimatur. They are, in fact, so profoundly alienated from their country as to be in some sense foreigners to it. They are hostile to its history and to its core values, which they see as reflections of a society that has been guilty of racism and oppression on an epic scale. And they are fundamentally opposed to its constitutional arrangements which the framers specifically designed to thwart what they deemed “wicked projects” to redistribute income and share individual wealth.

This is perhaps the hardest feature of their progressive adversaries for conservatives to comprehend. It is difficult to imagine that people as privileged by America’s generosity as Barack Obama and his entourage of despoilers should be so alienated from their country as to feel themselves init but not of it. And there is no more shocking example of this than Benghazi. No matter what your politics, or what solutions you propose to the problems that confront this nation, ask yourself this: Could you have done what Barack Obama did that night? Could you as commander-in-chief abandon three Americans fighting for their lives under your command? These men had served their country for more than a decade. For seven hours they cried out for help from their government, but you refused to give it.

How, as a fellow American, could Obama have just left these men to die? No one with an ounce of patriotic feeling could. But he did. Even Alexei Kosygin, the Soviet premier of a Communist dictatorship, maintained contact with his astronaut as he burned up in space. But not our president. When the attack on our embassy in Benghazi began, he hung up the phone and went to bed, and then on to a fundraiser with Beyonce and Jay-Z in Las Vegas in the morning. This, with four Americans including our ambassador dead.

As a nation we are now confronted by mortal enemies in Iran and Syria, in Hizbollah and Hamas – enemies who have openly declared that we are the devil’s party and should be erased from the face of the earth. How could an American president deliberately set out to appease such enemies? How in the face of such threats could he reduce our country to an international laughing stock, no longer respected by our friends, no longer feared by our foes? How could he be so cavalier about having failed so miserably to have defended his country’s security and uphold its honor? How could an American commander-in-chief then put himself in a position to be snubbed by the Iranian Hitlerites, which is what they are, and which is what Obama did? How could he snub our Israeli allies and at the same time grovel before our Islamic enemies? But he did. How could he create a vacuum in the Middle East allowing Russia to become the new regional power? How could he make himself an ally of the Muslim Brotherhood, which slaughters Christians, and promises the extermination of the Jews and spawns terrorist armies like al-Qaeda and Hamas?

The answer to all these questions is that Obama doesn’t identify with our country. He sees himself as a “citizen of the world,” and a redresser of grievances for the suffering he imagines America has inflicted on our adversaries, including Hitlerite Iran.

The second feature of the progressive left that is key to understanding it is its instinctive, practiced, and indispensable dishonesty. As I previously noted, the Communists in the circles I frequented in my youth never identified themselves as Communists but always as “progressives” and “Jeffersonian democrats” (which is the last thing they were). When I was a young man and Stalin was alive, the goal of the Communist Party U.S.A. was a “dictatorship of the proletariat,” and a “Soviet America.” But under Stalin’s inspiration the official slogan of the Communist Party was “Peace, Jobs, and Democracy.”

The lesson? People on the left may be delusional but they are not stupid. They know what they can say and get away with, and what they can’t. Barack Obama is a born and bred member of the left and not coincidentally is the most brazen and compulsive liar ever to occupy the American White House. What other politician could have successfully explained away the fact that two of his closest political confidantes over a twenty-year period were an anti-American racist, Jeremiah Wright and an anti-American terrorist William Ayers?

There is a marked difference between the radicals of the Sixties and the radical movement Obama is part of. In the Sixties, as radicals we said what we thought and blurted out what we wanted. We wanted a revolution, and we wanted it now. It was actually very decent of us to warn others as to what we intended. But because we blurted out our goal, we didn’t get very far. Americans were onto us. Those who remained on the left when the Sixties were over, learned from their experience. They learned to lie. The strategy of the lie is progressives’ new gospel. It is what the progressive bible — Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals — is all about. Alinsky is the acknowledged political mentor to Obama and Hillary, to the service and teacher unions, and to the progressive rank and file. Alinsky understood the mistake Sixties’ radicals had made. His message to this generation is easily summed up: Don’t telegraph your goals; infiltrate their institutions and subvert them; moral principles are disposable fictions; the end justifies the means; and never forget that your political goal is always power.

An SDS radical wrote in the Sixties: “The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution.” The Alinsky version is this: The issue is never the issue; the issue is always power: How to wring power out of the democratic process, how turn the process into an instrument of progressive control. How to use it to fundamentally transform the United States of America — which is exactly what Barack Obama warned he would do on the eve of his election.

The chosen legislative instrument to begin this transformation was Obamacare. It was presented as an act of charity, a plan to cover the uninsured. That was the “issue” as they presented it. But the actual goal of Obamacare’s socialist sponsors was a “single payer system” – government healthcare — which would put the state in control of the lives of every American, man, woman and child. That is the reason that none of the promises made about Obamacare was true, beginning with his campaign lie that Obamacare government health care was not a program he would support. Obamacare will not cover 30 million uninsured Americans, as Obama and the Democrats said it would; Obamacare will not lower costs, as they promised it would; Obamacare will deprive many Americans of their doctors and healthcare plans, as they assured everyone it would not; Obamacare is a new tax, as they swore it wouldn’t be. All these promises Obama and the Democrats made were false because they were only a camouflage for their real goal actual goal, which was universal control.

A third feature of progressives that defines their politics is that they regard the past, which is real, with contempt, and are focused exclusively on a future, which is imaginary.

To understand why this is important, think of progressives as a species of religious fundamentalists planning a redemption. Like fundamentalists they look at the world as fallen – a place corrupted by racism, sexism and class division. But the truly religious understand that we are the source of corruption and that redemption is only possible through the work of a Divinity. In contrast, progressives see themselves as the redeemers, which is why they are so dangerous. Because they regard those who oppose them as the eternally damned. Progressives are on a mission to create the kingdom of heaven on earth by redistributing income and using the state to enforce politically correct attitudes and practices in everyone’s life. They want to control what you do, and who you are, and even what you eat. For your own good, of course.

The fact that they see themselves as saving the world – or “saving the planet” as they would prefer — results in a fourth key characteristic of their politics, which is that they regard politics as a religious war. This explains why they are so rude and nasty when you disagree with them or resist their panaceas (and of course if they had the power, the punishments would be more severe); that is why the politics of personal destruction is their favorite variety, why they are verbal assassins and go directly for the jugular, and why they think nothing of destroying the reputations of their opponents and burying them permanently. And that is why they can perform their character assassinations without regrets – or did I miss Obama’s apology to Romney for accusing him of killing a woman with cancer during the campaign? Why apologize when you did it for the good of a world transforming cause?

To sum this up: Progressives see themselves as an army of the saints, and their opponents as the party of Satan; and that will justify almost anything you can get away with.

An appalling episode of their Machiavellian politics has shaped the international conflict in which we find ourselves currently impotent in the Middle East. The root of that impotence lies in the way Democrats turned the issue of the Iraq war against the Republican president George Bush. The Democrats’ case against Bush was that he acted unilaterally, deceptively and in haste.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The policy to remove Iraq’s government by force was put in place by a Democratic president, Bill Clinton, when he signed the Iraqi Liberation Act and fired 450 cruise missiles into that sovereign country. He did it, by the way, not only unilaterally but without consulting anyone.

That was in 1998, which is five years before Bush sent American troops into Iraq. Ten months before Bush did that he warned Iraq’s dictator, Saddam Hussein, to obey the Gulf War truce he had signed in 1991 and then repeatedly violated over the next ten years. Seven months before sending our troops into Iraq Bush went personally to the UN and got a unanimous Security Council ultimatum to Saddam. UN Resolution 1447 said: Obey the terms of the Gulf War truce by December 7, 2002 – or else.

Two months before that deadline Bush went to Congress and requested an authorization to use force in the event that Saddam did not voluntarily observe the terms of the UN Resolution, and the Gulf War truce he had signed and then violated. Both houses of Congress including a majority of the Democrats in the Senate voted to authorize Bush to use force in Iraq. He also got an authorization from NATO and he also formed a coalition of 40 nations, including America’s oldest allies, the Brits, to enforce the UN Security Council ultimatum.

Not only was the decision not made in haste, and not made without consultation, as the Democrats claimed. The truth was just the opposite. The process of making the decision to go to war took 10 months and every significant authority was consulted. But once U.S. troops entered Iraq on March 19, 2003, it took only three months for the Democrats to betray them and their president, to turn their backs on the war they had authorized and supported, and claim it was – to use the words of former Vice President Al Gore, “unnecessary, immoral and illegal.” Or in the words of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, “the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.”

Why did the Democrats betray the war they had supported? It was not because of any fact on the ground in Iraq, or any principles Bush had allegedly violated. They betrayed our troops and turned on their commander-in-chief for one reason and one reason alone: to gain political power at home.

At the very moment of their treachery a Democratic primary was in progress. An anti-war Democrat – a Sixties leftist named Howard Dean — was on the verge of winning their presidential nomination, burying other candidates like John Kerry and John Edwards in the polls. Until then, Kerry and Edwards were full-throated supporters of the war. Kerry made a speech on the floor of the Senate in support of the bill authorizing the use of force. He explained why the forcible removal of Saddam was necessary to defend the country and secure the peace.

But that was before the anti-war candidate Howard Dean had surged ahead in the polls. When that happened, and Kerry saw that he was going to lose the party nomination, he decided to switch sides. He turned his back on everything he had said in defense of the war, and the necessity of using force, and he turned his back on our troops in the field, and attacked their commander-in-chief. He did it for one reason, and one reason only. He did it because he saw it as the only way to win the Democratic nomination and have a chance of winning the presidency in 2004.

Kerry and the Democrats betrayed the war they had authorized; they betrayed the young Americans they sent into harms way; they betrayed the country they had sworn to serve. They did it to win the political power they were going to use to change the world. No conservative in his right mind would behave like this. No conservative would regard a political administration in Washington as a stepping stone on the way to a brave new world, and therefore something to justify opposing a war they had authorized and supported.

What were the issues the Democrats used to make their case against the president and the war in Iraq? It didn’t really matter, because the issues were never the issue. The Democrats opposed Bush and the war because both stood in the way of their quest for power.

The Democrats attacked Bush for acting in haste and acting unilaterally. Both charges were false. Worse, the Democrats claimed that the war was about weapons of mass destruction, ignoring the fact that Saddam had violated the Gulf War truce and had failed to comply with sixteen Security Council resolutions attempting to bring him into line, including the ultimatum of December 7. To make their case they claimed that Bush falsified the intelligence reports about weapons of mass destruction and lied in order to fool them into supporting the war. This was the biggest lie of the entire war. CIA chief George Tenet was a Clinton appointee. John Kerry sat on the intelligence committees with other Democrats like Feinstein and Rockefeller. The Democrats had access to all the intelligence information that Bush did. Bush could not have persuaded them to support the war by lying about the data, even if he had wanted to.

Why did they accuse him of lying? Because they could not admit the actual reason they had betrayed the war and the young men and women they sent to battle. They did it for partisan political gain. Unfortunately neither the White House nor any Republican had the political courage to hold them to account, and we are all paying the price for that.

For five years the Democrats conducted a scorched earth campaign against their country and its commander in the midst of a war. The harm they did is irreparable. Their sabotage of the war crippled our efforts to prosecute it – for example to follow Saddam’s weapons and generals into Syria, where they had fled; to take the war to Iran which supplied the IEDs which killed most of our troops; to close the border with Syria across which jihadists entered Iraq to fight our troops. The Democrats’ sabotage of the war created the power vacuum in the Middle East, which the terrorists and the Russians have now filled. And it most certainly inflicted casualties on our troops, though no one has had the political courage to say so.

The Democrats sabotaged the war in Iraq for the worst of reasons. They claimed it was for principle, but it was really – and only — to save their political skins.

Once the Democrats recaptured the presidency, it took no time at all for events to expose this destructive farce. Unlike the majority of his Democratic colleagues, Senator Barack Obama had always opposed the war in Iraq. He was against American interventions in sovereign countries, and he was against presidents who acted unilaterally, and in haste. Or so he said.

But when Obama became president and had the power to do so, he invaded Libya: unilaterally, and without authorization, and with no national security interest at stake. And he lied about the cause. There was no prospect of massacres as he claimed, and it was not a human rights intervention. If it were, Libya would not now be in chaos with al-Qaeda resurgent, and in a worse state than before.

Obama’s invasion of Libya was not merely unilateral. It was egomaniacal. Obama consulted no one outside his White House inner circle, not his own party, not the Congress, not the United Nations. Unlike Bush, he acted without constitutional authority and he acted alone. Yet there was not one Democratic leader who stood up for the principles they had all invoked to cripple America’s war against the jihadists in Iraq. Not one Democratic leader opposed the Democratic president, or criticized his aggression. They abandoned the principles of multilaterialism, consultation with Congress, and support from the U.N. because it would have been bad for their leader if they didn’t; it would have jeopardized their power.

The political consequences of the differences between conservatives and progressives is not only not small, it affects the way both sides conduct their political battles. Progressives focus on an impossible future, a utopia of promises, and this justifies for them their unscrupulous means. Issues for them are merely instruments for accumulating political power. Conservatives look to the past as a guide to what is possible and humanly practical, and what is not. Issues for them are problems that need to be fixed, and they take seriously the policies they devise to address them. This puts conservatives at a huge political disadvantage. It causes them to argue policy as though they were debating a party with whom they shared goals and only differed on the means to get there. But that is far from the case.

Take the present debate about a government shutdown. A statement from Boehner’s office explains, “The entire government is shut down right now because Washington Democrats refuse to even talk about fairness for all Americans under ObamaCare.” This is a proposal for compromise and is designed to portray Republicans as reasonable. We’re all part of the same social contract, and we need to give on both sides to resolve the impasse. We’re all interested in fairness, when all is said and done. If individuals were to be given a year’s extension under Obamacare, as corporations already have been, that would be fair. But since when is Obamacare about fairness? That’s a Democratic façade and talking point, courtesy of the Republican Speaker. By way of contrast, this is how the Democrats make their argument: “Republicans are trying to shut down the government so they can prevent us from providing all Americans with affordable healthcare.” In other words, Democrats are standing up for fairness and ordinary Americans, against the selfish Republicans who want deny them affordable care and shut down their government. This is three lies in one sentence. But who do you think wins that vote?

If you want to fight the left you have to fight fire with fire. That means first and foremost you have to hold them to account for hurting the people they are pretending to help. Whose opportunities are going to be wrecked by Obamacare? Health care taxes will go up for those who pay taxes – the middle class — while their incomes will go down. Already Obamacare is cutting the workweek to 30 hours. Whose pocket books do you think that is hitting?

They claim conservatives are conducting a war against minorities; we need to throw the truth back in their faces. We need to tell the people that progressives are the principal oppressors and exploiters of minorities and the poor in this country. Progressives control the inner cities, which are teeming with the nation’s minorities and poor; and they run the broken public school systems that have become dumping grounds for those who cannot afford a private education.

The city of Milwaukee has been run by liberals and progressives without interruption for more than 100 years. What is the consequence of this progressive rule? Milwaukee’s median household income is forty percent below the rest of the country. The black unemployment rate is 27%, three times the national average for everyone. Milwaukee’s population is majority black and Hispanic, and 30% of it lives below the poverty line. A third of Milwaukee’s public school children drop out before they graduate; those who do are barely literate. That’s what progressive policies achieve. Don’t let them forget it.

Conservatives need to put the human disasters of progressive policies in front of people every chance they get. We need to confront progressives with the misery they have created in America’s bankrupt cities, Detroit and Chicago, Philadelphia and Cincinnati, St. Louis, and the nation’s capital, and every city they have controlled for 25, 50 and 100 years, without interruption.

Conservatives need to talk less to the voters’ heads and more to their hearts. Government debt is not just an accountant’s nightmare. Debt is a form of economic slavery. If you add up all the taxes Americans pay — federal, state, local, income, sales — Americans already work half the year for government rather than for themselves. Like Obamacare and the political use of the I.R.S., debt is a threat to individual freedom.

Freedom is what our cause is about not just fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsibility has no emotional appeal except to people who already understand what it means. Fiscal responsibility is a means to an end. The end is freedom, and that is what inspires commitment and sacrifice and the passion necessary to win. Because it speaks to the heart.

Conservatives need to speak up as champions of the little guys, the underdogs, whose lives are being steadily constricted – made less free — by the ongoing destruction of a system that once afforded more opportunity for more people than any other in the history of the world. Conservatives need to speak up for the young whose future horizons are being rapidly diminished as the trillion dollar Obama deficits pile higher and higher. Conservatives need to speak for all Americans whose security under Obama has been degraded to the most dangerous levels since the end of the Cold War.

This is the threat we face, and the sooner we grapple with it the greater our chances to survive it. The most important battle in the world today is not being waged in the Middle East but here at home in the United States. If we lose this battle, everything is lost. But if we will take the measure of the enemies of freedom and prepare ourselves to fight them, we have a better than even chance to win.


And if ya really read ALL of it you will understand why we are fighting the good fight to save this country.

[Lady Quagga]

Quagga and tucky;

Daniel Martin Gray is the author of this article and is a former Progressive who saw the light, turning from the dark side over decades, to become a Constitutionalist. His family that remained in Europe was nearly wiped out by the Holocaust. They refused to believe that tyranny could happen there. He sees America marching “Forward” on that same road, exactly as our Founders warned us against.

WASHINGTON, October 20, 2013 ― Half of America thinks it is “progressive,” or at least it votes that way. Many voters buy the biased tripe about the Tea Party sold by the bought-and-paid-for mainstream media. But look deeper and you will find where America’s hearts and minds are really at. It’s quite the opposite of what you’ve been told.

Ask these questions of anyone, anyone at all:


1- Do you believe you have the right to do what you want with your life, without interference, unless you cause actual harm to others?

2- Do you believe you have the right to keep what you earn, to use as you see fit?

3- Do you believe that any person can be trusted with unlimited power over you and your family?

4- Do you believe it wise to incur massive debt, short of dire emergency?

Almost everyone answers “yes” to 1 and 2, “no” to 3 and 4.

Some might be hesitant and ask for explanations.

1- “What do you mean by harm?” Harm is not only acts like violence to others. It includes damage to resources held in trust for all Americans. Dumping poison in a stream, violation of contract, making false reports and misleading commercial speech are all examples of harm that can and should be dealt with by government. Opposing, insulting or offending others with truth is not. The nannystate cannot wisely regulate 300 million individual paths.

2- Some will insist that people should “pay their fair share.” Ask them who determines what we should pay for in the first place; who decides how much is fair. How much of their own income would they consider fair game for confiscation? With little left after taxes, how can individuals freely choose to support causes of their choice? Social Justice for all means no justice for any.

3- Anyone who says “yes” to this is either a liar or an utter fool. Ask them for their PIN numbers and passwords. When they say no, remind them of your relationship. Ask why they would trust a faceless bureaucrat with power they refuse a friend. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

4- Many require clarification on this one. Suppose you own a home worth $150,000, with $100,000 in equity, and the roof starts leaking. Repairs would cost $5,000, but you’re living paycheck to paycheck. It would be shortsighted not to incur debt for this purpose. You could lose all that hard-earned equity and the very roof over your head. But getting a second and third mortgage to pay for cigarettes or a new flat-screen is fiscal folly that fails.


No matter what you call yourself, no matter what you think you believe, if you’re like most Americans, you believe in the Constitution of the United States of America, as originally envisioned by our Founders.

Welcome to the party. Have some tea!


And you both would ridicule and demean those who feel and believe the same as Mr. Grey? Such as myself? And since you both find ways of putting words into someones mouth who is defending our nation and it's constitution, what does that make you both? I know the answer, and you two will never admit it...

The questions you pose speak to political ideals, and as such can be answered in absolutes. We do not live in that ideal world, and never have. #1 and #3 I can answer without reservation; #2 and #4 aren't so clear.


tucky, here some of those polls you love to quote;

Public Approval of Health Care Law
CNN/Opinion Research
For/Favor 41
Against/Oppose 56
Against/Oppose +15.0


Public Approval of Health Care Law
ABC News/Wash Post
For/Favor 46
Against/Oppose 49
Against/Oppose +3.0


President Obama Job Approval
CNN/Opinion Research
Approve 43
Disapprove 53
Disapprove +10.0


President Obama Job Approval
Gallup
Approve 43
Disapprove 51
Disapprove +8.

Two things.

Congressional approval rating is in the gutter:
CNN/Opinion Research - 10%
Gallup - 11%

As for the ACA, it's generally accepted that the unfavorable rating it has received is primarily due to the individual mandate. This is something I spoke on months ago, and expressed my disapproval for as well. It was a missed opportunity for Republicans to work towards a health care compromise which would have been more palatable to many more Americans.

[etucker1959]

The questions you pose speak to political ideals, and as such can be answered in absolutes. We do not live in that ideal world, and never have. #1 and #3 I can answer without reservation; #2 and #4 aren't so clear.



Two things.

Congressional approval rating is in the gutter:
CNN/Opinion Research - 10%
Gallup - 11%

As for the ACA, it's generally accepted that the unfavorable rating it has received is primarily due to the individual mandate. This is something I spoke on months ago, and expressed my disapproval for as well. It was a missed opportunity for Republicans to work towards a health care compromise which would have been more palatable to many more Americans.

It's so nice that I don't have to paddle the canoe all the time. lol

[HawgZWylde]

Another by Daniel Martin Grey;

Baby Boomers and the fall of America

WASHINGTON, October 20, 2013 — The Greatest Generation fought America out of the Great Depression and World War II. They beat Fascist oppression, then held the line against Communist domination. They built the greatest economic standard of living for average folks the world has ever known.

But they failed in a very real way that has dire consequence to this day. They sought to spare their children from the challenges they themselves had faced. That vast generation known as Baby Boomers were coddled in a cocoon of comfort, cradled with misguided compassion. Too many were given their way on too many things, never allowed to suffer too much or work too hard for their daily bread.

The Boomers rebelled against authority, of course. Every generation does. But that generation was left to Leftist social engineers, who already dominated the academic world. We failed to return to the tried and true ethos of tradition. Sophisticated subversion supplanted American core values.

America was under threat from within. Shadowy figures lurked behind political thrones whispering wormwood words, not to power, but to the People. Megacorporations and organized crime mingled with the elite. Foreign wars were fought for no real reason that helped America. The economy backslid and stagnated. The Welfare State expanded, promising the opposite of what it eventually delivered. Government spied on truth-tellers. No leader could be trusted.

We turned on, tuned in and dropped out. Wasted, we wasted our patrimony. Ate up the media massage fed to us by Bernays’ Madison Avenue. Imagined we were wonderful. Scorned property. Promoted promiscuity. Cared for clean ecology, but bought bogus Global Warming. Polluted ourselves with drugs. The ME generation got rid of God. Threw babies out with abortion bathwater. Sought Social Justice that far exceeded what was needed to fix America’s ills.

With enthusiasm spurred and pushed by myth-makers of popular music, Boomers marched to Fight the Power. Knew the revolution would not be televised. Felt the desperate urge to act, for it was the eve of destruction. And act we did.

Half a lifetime later, look how well we’ve done.

America is more authoritarian, corrupt, bloated and bankrupt than ever before. Sliding into greater economic depression, with looming international threats on the horizon.

The most populous generation, sons and daughters of the greatest generation, really screwed the pooch. We have seen to it that America’s wealth has been all but dissipated in debt. That real rights are nearly negated; false ones foisted in their place. And in 2012, we re-elected President Obama. We jumped the shark. This sitcom should have been canceled seasons ago.

Almost too late, with a start, we woke. In 2010, we took back the House. In 2012, we kept it and increased the percentage of honest Constitutionalists. Though we grow old, we are not dead yet. Though we are poorer than our parents, we still hold the lion’s share of wealth in America.

It is time to make amends, to own up to our massive failures. Time to sacrifice our comfort for the sake of our children, and their children. Time to make America America once again.

Our parents did that for us.

[etucker1959]

Quagga and tucky;

Daniel Martin Gray is the author of this article and is a former Progressive who saw the light, turning from the dark side over decades, to become a Constitutionalist. His family that remained in Europe was nearly wiped out by the Holocaust. They refused to believe that tyranny could happen there. He sees America marching “Forward” on that same road, exactly as our Founders warned us against.

WASHINGTON, October 20, 2013 ― Half of America thinks it is “progressive,” or at least it votes that way. Many voters buy the biased tripe about the Tea Party sold by the bought-and-paid-for mainstream media. But look deeper and you will find where America’s hearts and minds are really at. It’s quite the opposite of what you’ve been told.

Ask these questions of anyone, anyone at all:


1- Do you believe you have the right to do what you want with your life, without interference, unless you cause actual harm to others?

2- Do you believe you have the right to keep what you earn, to use as you see fit?

3- Do you believe that any person can be trusted with unlimited power over you and your family?

4- Do you believe it wise to incur massive debt, short of dire emergency?

Almost everyone answers “yes” to 1 and 2, “no” to 3 and 4.

Some might be hesitant and ask for explanations.

1- “What do you mean by harm?” Harm is not only acts like violence to others. It includes damage to resources held in trust for all Americans. Dumping poison in a stream, violation of contract, making false reports and misleading commercial speech are all examples of harm that can and should be dealt with by government. Opposing, insulting or offending others with truth is not. The nannystate cannot wisely regulate 300 million individual paths.

2- Some will insist that people should “pay their fair share.” Ask them who determines what we should pay for in the first place; who decides how much is fair. How much of their own income would they consider fair game for confiscation? With little left after taxes, how can individuals freely choose to support causes of their choice? Social Justice for all means no justice for any.

3- Anyone who says “yes” to this is either a liar or an utter fool. Ask them for their PIN numbers and passwords. When they say no, remind them of your relationship. Ask why they would trust a faceless bureaucrat with power they refuse a friend. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

4- Many require clarification on this one. Suppose you own a home worth $150,000, with $100,000 in equity, and the roof starts leaking. Repairs would cost $5,000, but you’re living paycheck to paycheck. It would be shortsighted not to incur debt for this purpose. You could lose all that hard-earned equity and the very roof over your head. But getting a second and third mortgage to pay for cigarettes or a new flat-screen is fiscal folly that fails.


No matter what you call yourself, no matter what you think you believe, if you’re like most Americans, you believe in the Constitution of the United States of America, as originally envisioned by our Founders.

Welcome to the party. Have some tea!


And you both would ridicule and demean those who feel and believe the same as Mr. Grey? Such as myself? And since you both find ways of putting words into someones mouth who is defending our nation and it's constitution, what does that make you both? I know the answer, and you two will never admit it...

You use the word ridicule all the time in talking about progressives ridiculing Conservative ideas. Do you not see, that you are one of the biggest culprits in ridiculing others???? I used that supreme court example, BECAUSE YOU starting using Justice Roberts as an example, to ridicule some progressives ideas.

[HawgZWylde]

Congressional approval rating is in the gutter:
CNN/Opinion Research - 10%
Gallup - 11%

And why not explain the actual reasons for that? Without spin.

"It was a missed opportunity for Republicans to work towards a health care compromise which would have been more palatable to many more Americans."

Repubs were completely shut out of the final drafting of the ACA by the veto proof socialist majority demorats who then voted for and passed the disastrous bill without a single repub "yay" vote. Harry Reid, and Obozo both have said they WILL NOT COMPROMISE OR NEGOTIATE anything with the repubs and the debt ceiling fiasco was proof of it. And that debacle will play out again in 90 days but don't tell that to the socialists as they now want everything focused on the amnesty of tens of millions of illegals and an increase of "legals" by tens of millions of 3rd world thinkers, all who will qualify for Obozocare at the American taxpayer's expense. And at the expense of the millions of jobless or underemployed American citizens...

[HawgZWylde]

Mr. Grey again;

WASHINGTON, October 14, 2013 — At the American Majority New Leaders Summit in West Chester, PA on 10/11/13, I asked Lt. Col. Allen West, former Congressman, distinguished Army career officer, Tea Party favorite and potential candidate for President in 2016 a three-part question.

Given the Obama administration’s willingness to usurp powers Constitutionally mandated to Congress and their contempt for courts, did he believe that President Obama would go so far as to use a real or false-flag event as cause to abrogate Posse Commitatus, and use American troops against citizens on American soil?

Would Generals give illegal orders directing the military to act against peaceful citizens?

Would American soldiers follow illegal orders or mutiny?

West immediately scoffed at the first with a flat “No”. He strongly denied the second, citing high professional standards and ethics of military leadership. He entirely dismissed the third as even a possibility, praising the servicemen and women of our nation as dedicated and devoted to their oaths to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Perhaps West is right.

He certainly knows firsthand the character of those who serve as leaders and volunteers in our Armed Forces, and many of the patriots that now rise to meet the challenges of a government that knows no limits in pursuit of raw power. He is no stranger to conflict in service of our country, whether with deadly force abroad against foreign enemies, or in peaceful politics at home against domestic ones. He has become a touchstone of the movement to restore constitutional government. Americans must hope he is correct in his assessments.

But Americans must also recognize the factors that turn a peaceful protest into a violent mob; that make dedicated public servants behave like monsters. Emotions run high. Restraint by citizens and training of officers only runs so deep. With the Executive so eager to execute, how far will they push before they push too far? How far will the American people allow themselves to be pushed?

Other civilized countries have faced turmoil and done badly. Few have been able to keep the fabric of civil society untorn in the face of conflict between forces of liberty and statist tyranny. From where we stand today, it is merely a matter of degree before we are ruled by decree.

America’s Bill of Rights is under assault.

Federal authority bullies 50 States and over 300 million Americans into unconstitutional compliance.

Common Core in schools indoctrinates communism and ignores America’s founding values.

Christian belief and speech in the military are unlawfully restricted; Islam and atheism are favored.

The People’s right to keep and bear arms is abrogated by Executive edict and UN treaty.

SWAT teams swoop in on Americans accused of crimes not criminal, written by nameless bureaucrats.

IRS is used to target and punish Americans who speak out against Obama and his cronies.

NSA and a host of other agencies scoop up and log every tidbit of personal communication for review.

NDAA allows arrest and indefinite detention without warrant, trial or writ of habeas corpus.

Yet this litany of abuses barely skims the surface of the foul stew Progressives have boiled up.

In Washington DC this Sunday, we saw veterans and other Constitutionalists confront armed police wearing riot gear. The protestors broke through the barricades at the WW II and Lincoln Memorials. They actually carried those barriers to the White House and lay the shame of locking citizens out of their own property at the feet of the President. In Valley Forge PA this Sunday, peaceful protestors assembled. Despite media accounts of “dozens”, folks I know and trust counted at least 500.

And during the past weekend, an alleged computer glitch in 17 States prevented those on Food Stamps from using EBT cards. Whether legitimately destitute or cravenly dependent, those folks panicked.

Veterans and citizens protested against the closure of National Parks and Monuments. What would be their reaction to something far more obnoxious? Food Stamp recipients freaked over a few hours delay. What would be their reaction if it was a few days or weeks? Police in paramilitary garb, mounted on horseback and riding in armored cars, refrained from using tasers, clubs and firearms. What would be their reaction to rocks thrown at them, or worse? Alinskyite organizers have never shied from acting as provocateurs. Now that they run the Federal government, what can we expect from them?

Seemingly by design, frustrations are being ratcheted-up. If and when they boil over, there will undoubtedly be strong and violent reaction. This turmoil is self-perpetuating and ever-increasing. It invariably leads to ever more desperate acts by angry citizens and massive crackdown from authorities.

This is where the Progressives would have us, pushed to the wall and snarling back at police dogs, ready to snap. They would have us give provocation; to put into action laws passed but never yet used. To finish off liberty in the name of security. This is the national hell we must guard against, while clamoring for return of our constitutional rights.

Americans must stand up and refuse to comply with unreasonable, imperious commands. But we must guard against the excesses that strong emotion engenders. We must keep our heads, and not give cause for crackdown.

Many, if not most of law enforcement are former military. They are torn between sworn duty and the duty to follow orders. If you are one of the thin blue line, or if you are a friend or family member, urge them to educate themselves on illegal orders. Show them your heart, and ask them to reaffirm their oath to our Constitution.

Get them to commit as Oath Keepers.

[etucker1959]

You use the word ridicule all the time in talking about progressives ridiculing Conservative ideas. Do you not see, that you are one of the biggest culprits in ridiculing others???? I used that supreme court example, BECAUSE YOU starting using Justice Roberts as an example, to ridicule some progressives ideas.
I put this in the wrong spot!!!!! This is suppose to answer HawZ Questionnaire. Sorry about That!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's talk about your famous questionnaire. You can ask a question like number 1 and give a short answer that sounds reasonable. Or you can answer it in a way that the individual see's it, and then ask's, "is that what the tea party stands for"????? If you answered the question honestly, you could make the tea party run for cover. Let me give you a few examples, this is all about question 1. I believe in all forms of Vice, examples would be gambling, drugs, prostitution and having unprotected sex where ever I go. I'm not harming anyone am I??????? I also believe in a women's right to an abortion. What society doesn't know won't hurt them, RIGHT!!!! I also believe in worshiping the Devil, I'm not harming anyone, RIGHT!!!!! See my point, you can ask a question any way you want and get the desired results you are after. PLEASE NO HATE MAIL, I was only giving outrageous examples to prove my point.

[HawgZWylde]

I put this in the wrong spot!!!!! This is suppose to answer HawZ Questionnaire. Sorry about That!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's talk about your famous questionnaire. You can ask a question like number 1 and give a short answer that sounds reasonable. Or you can answer it in a way that the individual see's it, and then ask's, "is that what the tea party stands for"????? If you answered the question honestly, you could make the tea party run for cover. Let me give you a few examples, this is all about question 1. I believe in all forms of Vice, examples would be gambling, drugs, prostitution and having unprotected sex where ever I go. I'm not harming anyone am I??????? I also believe in a women's right to an abortion. What society doesn't know won't hurt them, RIGHT!!!! I also believe in worshiping the Devil, I'm not harming anyone, RIGHT!!!!! See my point, you can ask a question any way you want and get the desired results you are after. PLEASE NO HATE MAIL, I was only giving outrageous examples to prove my point.

Those were not my questions, they were the author of the article. You never answered my questions from my previous post where I questioned you about your statement that if I was in congress, nobody would vote for my proposals. So ask ask again;

as·tute
əˈst(y)o͞ot/
adjective
adjective: astute; comparative adjective: astuter; superlative adjective: astutest

1.
having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage.

I have a challenge for you tucky. If you have paid attention and understood an iota of anything I or Dev have posted and you claim nobody would vote for anything "I have proposed", please accurately list five of those supposed "proposals" and their definitions. I'll even set up the frame for your answers;

1-



2-



3-



4-



5-



Please show us your supreme intelligence, common sense, and learning capability by filling in the blanks...

[etucker1959]

Congressional approval rating is in the gutter:
CNN/Opinion Research - 10%
Gallup - 11%

And why not explain the actual reasons for that? Without spin.

"It was a missed opportunity for Republicans to work towards a health care compromise which would have been more palatable to many more Americans."

Repubs were completely shut out of the final drafting of the ACA by the veto proof socialist majority demorats who then voted for and passed the disastrous bill without a single repub "yay" vote. Harry Reid, and Obozo both have said they WILL NOT COMPROMISE OR NEGOTIATE anything with the repubs and the debt ceiling fiasco was proof of it. And that debacle will play out again in 90 days but don't tell that to the socialists as they now want everything focused on the amnesty of tens of millions of illegals and an increase of "legals" by tens of millions of 3rd world thinkers, all who will qualify for Obozocare at the American taxpayer's expense. And at the expense of the millions of jobless or underemployed American citizens...

First question. Do you think the Republicans will shut down the government again in 90 days????????
Second question. Do you think Obama Care will be the main focal point???? Or deficit reduction??????
Third question. There won't even be any more questions, if the answer is yes to the first two. Why????? The American public will vote out the Republicans once and for all in 2014.

[Lady Quagga]

Congressional approval rating is in the gutter:
CNN/Opinion Research - 10%
Gallup - 11%

And why not explain the actual reasons for that? Without spin.

"It was a missed opportunity for Republicans to work towards a health care compromise which would have been more palatable to many more Americans."

Repubs were completely shut out of the final drafting of the ACA by the veto proof socialist majority demorats who then voted for and passed the disastrous bill without a single repub "yay" vote. Harry Reid, and Obozo both have said they WILL NOT COMPROMISE OR NEGOTIATE anything with the repubs and the debt ceiling fiasco was proof of it. And that debacle will play out again in 90 days but don't tell that to the socialists as they now want everything focused on the amnesty of tens of millions of illegals and an increase of "legals" by tens of millions of 3rd world thinkers, all who will qualify for Obozocare at the American taxpayer's expense. And at the expense of the millions of jobless or underemployed American citizens...

Try again Hawggy - "without spin" this time....

[etucker1959]

Those were not my questions, they were the author of the article. You never answered my questions from my previous post where I questioned you about your statement that if I was in congress, nobody would vote for my proposals. So ask ask again;

as·tute
əˈst(y)o͞ot/
adjective
adjective: astute; comparative adjective: astuter; superlative adjective: astutest

1.
having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage.

I have a challenge for you tucky. If you have paid attention and understood an iota of anything I or Dev have posted and you claim nobody would vote for anything "I have proposed", please accurately list five of those supposed "proposals" and their definitions. I'll even set up the frame for your answers;

1-



2-



3-



4-



5-



Please show us your supreme intelligence, common sense, and learning capability by filling in the blanks...

I accept your proposal. However let's do them one at a time, so I can get your feed back and follow up with additional questions????

First question. We all know we can't keep deficit spending at the present rate indefinitely. The only long term solution is a balanced budget. So here is my exact question. How do you balance the books, without raising anyone's tax's and keep the people from either rioting in the streets or voting your administration out of office?????????? Good luck!!!!!!

[HawgZWylde]

I accept your proposal. However let's do them one at a time, so I can get your feed back and follow up with additional questions????

First question. We all know we can't keep deficit spending at the present rate indefinitely. The only long term solution is a balanced budget. So here is my exact question. How do you balance the books, without raising anyone's tax's and keep the people from either rioting in the streets or voting your administration out of office?????????? Good luck!!!!!!

Ok tucky, you can't seem to put it together man. You made a claim that I offered proposals and that nobody would vote for them. I ask you to list them, you didn't. I ask you again, you didn't. Over time I have asked you repeatedly to answer for your words and you always come back with some hypothetical ramblings with no substance and completely defer the question ask of you. So, since you either do not understand, or you feel you may be "above reproach", I'm not going to waste my time with you any more. I'll let your own ramblings do the talking for you. The rest of us know what you are all about.

But I will warn you tucky, don't go all "A. Weiner" on Quahhhhgga, alright? You may get someone else here all jealous...

[HawgZWylde]

Try again Hawggy - "without spin" this time....

No spin there Quagga. But your post just proved my point, thank you! Your defense of the new age communist, oh, I mean "progressive socialist" demorat party's ideology goes to show exactly what you are, a leftist troll. Those who are in the know, know the goal of your bosses is to destroy any opposition to a one party, progressive socialist government. Just like here in Cali. You are anonymous, therefore you can speak all the "double speak" you wish without recrimination, or so you think. When's the next "media Matters" seminar, troll?

[seal]

Questions?

1. Do you all ever get tired of arguing or discussing, whatever you call it, topics that the other party's only intent is to make you're opinion look stupid?

2. Are any of you getting to the point that the wasted energy involved is not really worth it?

3. Do any of you actually learn anything from the other?

4. Are you going to answer yes that you've learned something from the other just so it doesn't look like you are wasting you're time?

I'm just curious?

[Lady Quagga]

No spin there Quagga. But your post just proved my point, thank you! Your defense of the new age communist, oh, I mean "progressive socialist" demorat party's ideology goes to show exactly what you are, a leftist troll. Those who are in the know, know the goal of your bosses is to destroy any opposition to a one party, progressive socialist government. Just like here in Cali. You are anonymous, therefore you can speak all the "double speak" you wish without recrimination, or so you think. When's the next "media Matters" seminar, troll?

Proved what point? That you either a) lack any sort of meaningful reading comprehension, or b) have long term memory loss? For the first I would recommend Kumon or a similar program. If it's the latter, I would strongly recommend lowering your blood pressure, as it's obviously causing you some sort of dementia-inducing brain damage.

The fact is, I don't march in lockstep with liberals or even democrats, and I never have. Up until about ten years ago, I was a registered Republican and proud of it. However, 2000 was the last time I voted for a Republican or Democrat in any federal election. Since that time I've given more attention to third party candidates, and for a certain period of time voted Libertarian on more than one occasion. I don't subscribe to the "lesser of two evils" nonsense, and have declined to vote for any candidate in certain elections if I didn't feel there was a suitable candidate. So what this all comes down to is: all your "progressive socialist", "new age communist", et cetera ad nauseum bullsh*t is just that - bullsh*t. It is your feeble attempt to demonize anything which doesn't suit your narrow-minded right-leaning - not to mention bigoted - sensibilities. You simply cannot fathom the idea that there are those who are able to look beyond the asinine left-versus-right political concepts which have hamstrung any meaningful prosperity for our nation. You foam at the mouth at the mere mention of any social program, yet readily bend over and grab your ankles for any suggestion that conservatives were helpless little lambs and it was the big bad liberals who ruined everything.

You've already been told why I go out of my way and single out conservatives like you on this website. I make no apologies for it, any more than you would apologize for your own spin. You speak of indoctrination, but frankly, anytime I hear your rhetoric, all I can picture is you assuming the position and shouting this age old mantra:

http://f3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another.jpg

[Lady Quagga]

Questions?

1. Do you all ever get tired of arguing or discussing, whatever you call it, topics that the other party's only intent is to make you're opinion look stupid?

2. Are any of you getting to the point that the wasted energy involved is not really worth it?

3. Do any of you actually learn anything from the other?

4. Are you going to answer yes that you've learned something from the other just so it doesn't look like you are wasting you're time?

I'm just curious?

1. Lincoln

2. Army Corps of Engineers

3. Bananas!

4. "How can I possibly be expected to handle school on a day like this?"

[seal]

1. Lincoln

2. Army Corps of Engineers

3. Bananas!

4. "How can I possibly be expected to handle school on a day like this?"

Fine responses I give you an A!

[etucker1959]

Questions?

1. Do you all ever get tired of arguing or discussing, whatever you call it, topics that the other party's only intent is to make you're opinion look stupid?

2. Are any of you getting to the point that the wasted energy involved is not really worth it?

3. Do any of you actually learn anything from the other?

4. Are you going to answer yes that you've learned something from the other just so it doesn't look like you are wasting you're time?

I'm just curious?

I have a joke with my friends and clients and the poor saps, that I beat up at the poker tables all the time. The smartest guy in the room just sat down!!!!!! lol I will answer your questions one at a time.

Question 1. I can only answer for myself, but I don't get tired because the topics do keep changing. So far I don't think I have ever been proven totally wrong, except for the time I called my fellow white men HICKS. I really thought if you were in the same race, you could call each other names without a feces storm blowing up in your face. I was totally wrong on that one.

Question 2. No way!!!!!!! I think what we are doing is providing a public service to our fellow fisherman. Seal, most people don't have the time or the energy to learn about politics. They hear buzz words like flat tax and government has a spending problem and think well, just go ahead and fix that. In reality it's a lot more complicated then that, maybe our little discussions might actually help inform someone so they could say, "I get it now."

Question 3. I like to think of ourselves like two lawyers in court. We both present our side and let the jury decide who's right. Who's the jury???? If you think it's our 12 FNN participants in our discussion, you're totally wrong!!! Seal, look at the amounts of views these threads get. The Obama is taking away our parks thread got 7500 views, the one before that got 10,000 views and the big one "Who are you voting for." Got tens of thousands of views!!!!!!! So no Seal, I don't think "I'm wasting my time"!!!!!

[HawgZWylde]

Proved what point? That you either a) lack any sort of meaningful reading comprehension, or b) have long term memory loss? For the first I would recommend Kumon or a similar program. If it's the latter, I would strongly recommend lowering your blood pressure, as it's obviously causing you some sort of dementia-inducing brain damage.

The fact is, I don't march in lockstep with liberals or even democrats, and I never have. Up until about ten years ago, I was a registered Republican and proud of it. However, 2000 was the last time I voted for a Republican or Democrat in any federal election. Since that time I've given more attention to third party candidates, and for a certain period of time voted Libertarian on more than one occasion. I don't subscribe to the "lesser of two evils" nonsense, and have declined to vote for any candidate in certain elections if I didn't feel there was a suitable candidate. So what this all comes down to is: all your "progressive socialist", "new age communist", et cetera ad nauseum bullsh*t is just that - bullsh*t. It is your feeble attempt to demonize anything which doesn't suit your narrow-minded right-leaning - not to mention bigoted - sensibilities. You simply cannot fathom the idea that there are those who are able to look beyond the asinine left-versus-right political concepts which have hamstrung any meaningful prosperity for our nation. You foam at the mouth at the mere mention of any social program, yet readily bend over and grab your ankles for any suggestion that conservatives were helpless little lambs and it was the big bad liberals who ruined everything.

You've already been told why I go out of my way and single out conservatives like you on this website. I make no apologies for it, any more than you would apologize for your own spin. You speak of indoctrination, but frankly, anytime I hear your rhetoric, all I can picture is you assuming the position and shouting this age old mantra:

http://f3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another.jpg

No Quagga, it's not bulls**t. Whether you believe the left-right argument is asinine or not is irrelevant. The far left progressive actions of this administration and the party behind it speak louder than your words and their actions are in accordance with their political ideology and it's stated goals. And those goals are to, in Obozo's own words, "fundamentally change America". And it's actions are to pass rules, regulations, and mandates, raise taxes and fees, grow a massive centralized federal government, collect and bank all info on all Americans including health and financial. Spies on it's own citizens. Uses the IRS against it's opposition in an attempt to repress it. I could go on and on and on but I'd just be repeating myself.

Hey, you say you were once a repub? Really? Mmhhmm, and how do you prove that Quagga? Hey, I can say I was a demorat once before I voted against them. Funny thing is, I'm not anonymous, just about anywhere I go fish, people know who I am, even the bait-shops all know HawgZWylde. I'm real, your not. I put it out there and stand behind it while you stand behind anonymity. Why is that Quagga? Cause your a charlatan, you aren't who you pretend to be. Anyone who has paid attention knows all the big game changing done to our governance has come from the progressives over the decades. With the big ones starting with Wilson. Progressives are in both parties except one has been completely taken over while the other has been infiltrated hence RINO's. That's why BOTH fear the TEA Party and the constitutional conservatives. Hell, even the Libertarians are to the right of the progressive RINO's.

"It is your feeble attempt to demonize anything which doesn't suit your narrow-minded right-leaning - not to mention bigoted"

You're right, I hate lying, cheating, scumbag socialists and communists. They are everything opposite what this country stands for. And I hate loudmouths who pretend to be something their not, then hides behind anonymity. You are a troll following the progressive doctrine of destroying the opposition. Where were you the last couple Quagga, attend a media matters community organizing seminar, eh Quagga? Rumors abound the known circles that they are happening lately to teach damage control and lay out tactics for next years elections. Perhaps that may explain Quagga's absence, no? Ah but guess what, you can't prove you didn't because you are anonymous. Sucks being a troll eh Quahhhgaga...

[etucker1959]

Ok tucky, you can't seem to put it together man. You made a claim that I offered proposals and that nobody would vote for them. I ask you to list them, you didn't. I ask you again, you didn't. Over time I have asked you repeatedly to answer for your words and you always come back with some hypothetical ramblings with no substance and completely defer the question ask of you. So, since you either do not understand, or you feel you may be "above reproach", I'm not going to waste my time with you any more. I'll let your own ramblings do the talking for you. The rest of us know what you are all about.

But I will warn you tucky, don't go all "A. Weiner" on Quahhhhgga, alright? You may get someone else here all jealous...

If that's the way you feel, that's OK. By the way that little question I threw at you, will be the single most important topic that the Republicans will be talking about in 2014.

[HawgZWylde]

Questions?

1. Do you all ever get tired of arguing or discussing, whatever you call it, topics that the other party's only intent is to make you're opinion look stupid?

2. Are any of you getting to the point that the wasted energy involved is not really worth it?

3. Do any of you actually learn anything from the other?

4. Are you going to answer yes that you've learned something from the other just so it doesn't look like you are wasting you're time?

I'm just curious?

1-No, our country is perilously close to financial and social collapse. My intentions are not to argue, but to inform because our so called journalists are failing to do so and in fact many if not most of our MSM is doing the bidding for this administration hence why I post articles from sources other than the MSM. I don't attack unless attacked. Something a couple of other posters seem to thrive on.

2-Again, no. I love my country. I love and cherish the freedom and liberties our forefathers tried to enshrine in our constitution. And I love and honor all those who have perished or have been maimed defending this great country and it's constitution. If I can inform and open at least one persons eyes to the truth of what the "progressive socialists" are doing to our country and it's constitution and change their views on exactly who is doing it, and expose those who are defending those who wish to "fundamentally change" it to where our ancestors wouldn't recognize it, then I'm satisfied that I'm doing the right thing. And I know I have because I've had folks tell me just that at the waters I fish.

3-Yes, just how truly shrewd and dishonest the "enemy within" is...

4-No, see answer #2

Now I'm done for the night as I have to get my gear ready for tomorrows day on the lake. Which is something you won't see a certain opponent of mine here doing...

[etucker1959]

No Quagga, it's not bulls**t. Whether you believe the left-right argument is asinine or not is irrelevant. The far left progressive actions of this administration and the party behind it speak louder than your words and their actions are in accordance with their political ideology and it's stated goals. And those goals are to, in Obozo's own words, "fundamentally change America". And it's actions are to pass rules, regulations, and mandates, raise taxes and fees, grow a massive centralized federal government, collect and bank all info on all Americans including health and financial. Spies on it's own citizens. Uses the IRS against it's opposition in an attempt to repress it. I could go on and on and on but I'd just be repeating myself.

Hey, you say you were once a repub? Really? Mmhhmm, and how do you prove that Quagga? Hey, I can say I was a demorat once before I voted against them. Funny thing is, I'm not anonymous, just about anywhere I go fish, people know who I am, even the bait-shops all know HawgZWylde. I'm real, your not. I put it out there and stand behind it while you stand behind anonymity. Why is that Quagga? Cause your a charlatan, you aren't who you pretend to be. Anyone who has paid attention knows all the big game changing done to our governance has come from the progressives over the decades. With the big ones starting with Wilson. Progressives are in both parties except one has been completely taken over while the other has been infiltrated hence RINO's. That's why BOTH fear the TEA Party and the constitutional conservatives. Hell, even the Libertarians are to the right of the progressive RINO's.

"It is your feeble attempt to demonize anything which doesn't suit your narrow-minded right-leaning - not to mention bigoted"

You're right, I hate lying, cheating, scumbag socialists and communists. They are everything opposite what this country stands for. And I hate loudmouths who pretend to be something their not, then hides behind anonymity. You are a troll following the progressive doctrine of destroying the opposition. Where were you the last couple Quagga, attend a media matters community organizing seminar, eh Quagga? Rumors abound the known circles that they are happening lately to teach damage control and lay out tactics for next years elections. Perhaps that may explain Quagga's absence, no? Ah but guess what, you can't prove you didn't because you are anonymous. Sucks being a troll eh Quahhhgaga...

I wish someone else would read the last paragraph and give an honest answer of how it came across??????

[Lady Quagga]

No Quagga, it's not bulls**t. Whether you believe the left-right argument is asinine or not is irrelevant. The far left progressive actions of this administration and the party behind it speak louder than your words and their actions are in accordance with their political ideology and it's stated goals. And those goals are to, in Obozo's own words, "fundamentally change America". And it's actions are to pass rules, regulations, and mandates, raise taxes and fees, grow a massive centralized federal government, collect and bank all info on all Americans including health and financial. Spies on it's own citizens. Uses the IRS against it's opposition in an attempt to repress it. I could go on and on and on but I'd just be repeating myself.

As I've previously suggested, the left-versus-right mentality embraced over the last two decades has resulted in a dysfunctional system with questionable policies being implemented. And in the midst of all this political grandstanding, we've witnessed a growing disparity of wealth, and a near total lack of accountability when it comes to the true perpetrators of this most recent economic swindle. Given the complete failure of deregulation, and the realization of the myth of a self-correcting economy, I support strengthening certain federal regulations. I support a federal healthcare system, though I do not fully support our current iteration of the ACA. Ideally, I do not support increasing the size of the federal government, but I also am a strong believer in massive cuts across all federal programs - there should be no sacred cows, no political third rails, every federal program, service, and entity should face cutbacks. I won't entertain your tinfoil hat remarks, except to say that when any government - be it local, state or federal - assumes responsibility for public services, information is gathered. It doesn't suggest a conspiracy.


Hey, you say you were once a repub? Really? Mmhhmm, and how do you prove that Quagga? Hey, I can say I was a demorat once before I voted against them. Funny thing is, I'm not anonymous, just about anywhere I go fish, people know who I am, even the bait-shops all know HawgZWylde. I'm real, your not. I put it out there and stand behind it while you stand behind anonymity. Why is that Quagga? Cause your a charlatan, you aren't who you pretend to be. Anyone who has paid attention knows all the big game changing done to our governance has come from the progressives over the decades. With the big ones starting with Wilson. Progressives are in both parties except one has been completely taken over while the other has been infiltrated hence RINO's. That's why BOTH fear the TEA Party and the constitutional conservatives. Hell, even the Libertarians are to the right of the progressive RINO's.

Oh I am very real, and whether you choose to believe it or not, I once considered myself a Republican. The fact that I remain anonymous to you doesn't make it any less true. The fact that I don't identify myself to you when I go fishing also doesn't make it any less true. And once again, you've convinced yourself that I am a charlatan because you are incapable of comprehending or accepting that someone can hold both conservative and liberal points of view.

Incidentally, you will find many folks who do not fear the Astroturf Party. It's no surprise that they are trying to inject more of their influence into the GOP - as a stand-alone movement, (and due in no small part to their demographics) they lack the credibility or numbers to effect thee sweeping social or political changes they envision. And constitutional conservatives? Well, we've talked about that one recently, haven't we?


You're right, I hate lying, cheating, scumbag socialists and communists. They are everything opposite what this country stands for.

Oh but being a solipsistic, hypocritical bigot in self-deluding political denial whilst eagerly awaiting civil violence is something you are comfortable being. Good show.


And I hate loudmouths who pretend to be something their not, then hides behind anonymity. You are a troll following the progressive doctrine of destroying the opposition. Where were you the last couple Quagga, attend a media matters community organizing seminar, eh Quagga? Rumors abound the known circles that they are happening lately to teach damage control and lay out tactics for next years elections. Perhaps that may explain Quagga's absence, no? Ah but guess what, you can't prove you didn't because you are anonymous. Sucks being a troll eh Quahhhgaga...

Once again, I have no need to lie or pretend about my political beliefs. That I choose to remain anonymous to you is not something which bothers me in the slightest. And while I do like to stay involved in and informed of local community politics and events, I absolutely abhor the idea of canvassing on the part of any national election. Considering I've not voted for a Republican or Democratic presidential or congressional candidate since 2000, I don't think I'd be the best choice for door-to-door campaigning for national elections. And damage control? If a perfect world, I'd evoke this quaint little passage:


....accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security....

[DockRat]

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u426/beez_map/35fafc87.png (http://media.photobucket.com/user/beez_map/media/35fafc87.png.html)

Could it be true that Etucker is the only Obamacare supporter ?

by John Nolte 21 Oct 2013
The media are doing a good job covering the ObamaCare launch problems. But like their coverage of President Obama's disastrous performance in his first presidential debate with Mitt Romney, there is a partisan motive at work here. The media want ObamaCare to succeed and believe that pounding away at the site problems will motivate the White House to get the site fixed.

While the tech problems are real and worth covering, so are five other ObamaCare catastrophes. But the media won't cover those because to do so might further undermine the program:

1. Millions are Losing Their Health Insurance

About 14 million Americans (not enrolled in Medicare or Medicaid) purchase their health insurance privately as opposed to through an employer. Because a large percentage of these plans do not cover everything ObamaCare mandates a policy cover -- among other things: birth control, mental health, maternity, vision, dental -- these plans are being cancelled -- no matter how happy people might be with them. We learned today that in just one state just one provider dropped 300,000 customers.

Now these 300,000 (and millions more, including spouses being dropped by UPS and other organizations) have not only lost the health insurance they were happy with, they have also been thrown into the nightmare of these ObamaCare exchanges. Moreover, because their old insurance plans were dumped for not covering everything the government now demands be covered, you can bet that the new plans will be more expensive.

And let's not forget that with a new health insurance plan, you can lose the doctor you had and liked under the old one. Repeatedly, President Obama promised the American people that his health care reforms would not cost people their doctors or force them off the health insurance plans they like. Now we know that was nothing more than a bald-faced lie.

2. Premium Increases on Working and Middle Class

President Obama hosted a Rose Garden event Monday where he incessantly repeated a talking point about health care now being more affordable. Certainly, for some, it will be, especially those joining the expanded Medicaid rolls.

But for many more millions among the working and middle class, premiums are going up, sometimes by as much as 50% to 150%. We are not talking about taxing the wealthy here, we are talking about everyday people, families, and small businesses.

Millions are about to have their standard of living hit and their ability to save for college and retirement undermined -- mostly because the government is forcing them to give up a health care premium they were happy with, and purchase another loaded with services they neither need nor want.

Keep in mind that all of this is happening to these families in a no-growth economy.

3. Obama's One-Year Delay On Business Mandate Strands the Middle and Working Class

In 2015, and in an anemic job growth-era that is entering year five of creating mostly part-time jobs, ObamaCare will sock small business owners with a massive tax. If a company has more than 50 full-time employees, they are either required to provide them with ObamaCare or pay a fine of $2000 a year per employee.

Why would a small business owner add another full-time employee if it means being socked with the kinds of costs associated with paying for health insurance or paying the fine?

Obviously, these fledgling businesses are going to either hire part-time workers or go to a temp agency.

The most cynical part of this mandate, though, is that this is the employer mandate Obama delayed for a year. But he didn't delay it to help business as much as he did it to increase the number of people who would be forced to enroll for ObamaCare during this crucial first year.

With no carrot or stick, businesses already at or above the 50 employee threshold are a lot less likely to offer their employees health insurance until the mandate kicks in the following year. This leaves who-knows-how-many employees stranded for a year without health insurance and facing a penalty if they don't sign up for ObamaCare.

This was a ruthless move by Obama to artificially bump his all-important first-year numbers by removing the incentive for employers to offer health insurance, which cornered employees into enrolling in ObamaCare.

4. ObamaCare's Effect On the Unemployed and Under-Employed

While it is a sad thing that ObamaCare means that who-knows-how-many small businesses can't expand their workforce in a way that benefits everyone, the real victims are the who-knows-how-many unemployed and under-employed who won't be hired for full-time jobs by these companies.

ObamaCare has been the law of the land for three-plus years , and for just as long our economy has been adding 7 part-time jobs for every full-time job. This can't be a coincidence. As soon as ObamaCare was passed, employers saw the writing on the wall and planned accordingly.

5. The Working Poor are Getting Hammered

The stories of the hundreds of thousands among the working poor losing their employer-based health insurance and having their hours cut, all due to ObamaCare, are everywhere. But the media intentionally refuse to do anything other than dutifully cover these individual stories. Were they to focus on this horrific consequence that is disproportionately affecting the working poor, it would likely turn even more people against ObamaCare -- something the media just aren’t going to allow to happen.

--

While the media's coverage of the rolling disaster that is the ObamaCare launch is both welcome and appropriate, what the media will not cover is what is now and is always going to be the real ObamaCare disaster: the economic chaos ObamaCare is forcing millions upon millions of everyday Americans to needlessly pay for and deal with.

And the people callously being thrown into this maelstrom aren't The Wealthy, aren't Mitt Romney, aren't the Top 1%, aren’t even Tea Partiers -- they are the very people Obama repeatedly promised could keep their insurance and that he would never tax: the working poor and the middle class.



http://www.breitbart...refuse-to-cover

[seal]

1-No, our country is perilously close to financial and social collapse. My intentions are not to argue, but to inform because our so called journalists are failing to do so and in fact many if not most of our MSM is doing the bidding for this administration hence why I post articles from sources other than the MSM. I don't attack unless attacked. Something a couple of other posters seem to thrive on.

2-Again, no. I love my country. I love and cherish the freedom and liberties our forefathers tried to enshrine in our constitution. And I love and honor all those who have perished or have been maimed defending this great country and it's constitution. If I can inform and open at least one persons eyes to the truth of what the "progressive socialists" are doing to our country and it's constitution and change their views on exactly who is doing it, and expose those who are defending those who wish to "fundamentally change" it to where our ancestors wouldn't recognize it, then I'm satisfied that I'm doing the right thing. And I know I have because I've had folks tell me just that at the waters I fish.

3-Yes, just how truly shrewd and dishonest the "enemy within" is...

4-No, see answer #2

Now I'm done for the night as I have to get my gear ready for tomorrows day on the lake. Which is something you won't see a certain opponent of mine here doing...

Hawgz I'll never question your patriotism or your integrity. I just wonder, normally to myself, if you are not wasting your time discussing this stuff on this website with those that are participating. I wonder if the time spent doing research and posting articles that you believe are important pieces of information is worth it because those that are involved will only disregard all that information believing that it is partisan.

The same statement I could make to those on the other side of the debate.

Not that it matters but I am glad that both sides seem to be concerned for the future of this country but when things go on forever on these threads at some point I just get curious why continue? Besides I get bored and want you guys to go on to a new argument, discussion or debate.

[DarkShadow]

Besides I get bored and want you guys to go on to a new argument, discussion or debate.

http://gaia.adage.com/images/bin/image/x-large/MillerLiteClassicCan_2.jpg

Miller Lite.

Great Taste?

or

Less Filling?

What say you, Seal?

[seal]

http://gaia.adage.com/images/bin/image/x-large/MillerLiteClassicCan_2.jpg

Miller Lite.

Great Taste?

or

Less Filling?

What say you, Seal?

Well since it's light beer I'd tend to drink way more which would make them more filling and I really don't like the taste of Miller Light I prefer Keystone Light so once again I just can't participate in the debate.

[DarkShadow]

I prefer Keystone Light so once again I just can't participate in the debate.

Leftist Socialist Communist!

[etucker1959]

Hawgz I'll never question your patriotism or your integrity. I just wonder, normally to myself, if you are not wasting your time discussing this stuff on this website with those that are participating. I wonder if the time spent doing research and posting articles that you believe are important pieces of information is worth it because those that are involved will only disregard all that information believing that it is partisan.

The same statement I could make to those on the other side of the debate.

Not that it matters but I am glad that both sides seem to be concerned for the future of this country but when things go on forever on these threads at some point I just get curious why continue? Besides I get bored and want you guys to go on to a new argument, discussion or debate.

Seal, refresh my memory. Do any of the left or independents (Non Ultra Conservative types) bother to cut/paste articles very much on here??? I seem to recall that is a tactic that only the HARD RIGHT people use.

In my opinion Seal, we are going to venture into new and uncharted waters in political games, pulled off by the Republicans this coming year. Closing down the government was just their first trick. The tea party wing is just so unpredictable (Why am I trying to be so nice?) their F/nnnnnn nuts and their just kicking the can down the road for now. I can't wait for next year to see what their next trick will be, it will be anything but boring. It won't matter how crazy a stunt they will pull, there will be boards members on here, who will try to blame Obama for everything, instead of those nut bag Republicans who started the whole thing.

[DockRat]

Seal, refresh my memory. Do any of the left or independents (Non Ultra Conservative types) bother to cut/paste articles very much on here??? I seem to recall that is a tactic that only the HARD RIGHT people use.

King of copy/paste here in response. Dear Libs, maybe just maybe if read FACTS about the state of the union it will sink in that the USA is going bankrupt. The current administration keeps spending and borrowing. Failed programs after failures with NO RESULTS.

It is time for people to wake up !






Just kicking the can down the road for now.

Yes, Obama is just 'Kicking The Can'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGUVweGhG48

[DockRat]

Check this out, so funny, staged for sure.
This video tells all....
Busted, Lmao. DR

It is obvious that there are quite a few people involved in this latest fraud put out by the Whitehouse. Why did Obama think it was necessary to “catch” a fainting woman just when he said the words, “To free families from the pervasive fear that one illness….” And down she went? Well not actually down. She just weaved and wobbled a little and never quite fainted. And, consequently, Obama never actually caught her. He turned around and put his hand on her shoulder as if to steady her and turned back to the camera to make sure it got a clear shot of his “rescue” efforts.

You will see in the following video that the pregnant woman is standing with a friend who is holding her hand with her arm wrapped around her waist. That is until she starts to “faint”. Then she steps slightly aside and never even looks at the women she is holding. She smiles a nervous smile for the camera because she has done her part in this extremely poorly orchestrated drama.

Why would they come up with this transparent attempt to manipulate the low information voters? Who knows? Did it make anyone feel warm and fuzzy for our hero President? Probably. There are a lot of idiots out there. Did it take the focus off the disastrous website? I don’t think so. Whatever the reason was that Obama and his advisers had to dream up this silly scheme it certainly smacks of desperation. If I was him I would fire them all. But, who knows? As stupid as this idea was, it could have been his. Maybe he’ll fire himself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eupEkeYOhj4&feature=player_embedded

[HawgZWylde]

Check this out, so funny, staged for sure.
This video tells all....
Busted, Lmao. DR

It is obvious that there are quite a few people involved in this latest fraud put out by the Whitehouse. Why did Obama think it was necessary to “catch” a fainting woman just when he said the words, “To free families from the pervasive fear that one illness….” And down she went? Well not actually down. She just weaved and wobbled a little and never quite fainted. And, consequently, Obama never actually caught her. He turned around and put his hand on her shoulder as if to steady her and turned back to the camera to make sure it got a clear shot of his “rescue” efforts.

You will see in the following video that the pregnant woman is standing with a friend who is holding her hand with her arm wrapped around her waist. That is until she starts to “faint”. Then she steps slightly aside and never even looks at the women she is holding. She smiles a nervous smile for the camera because she has done her part in this extremely poorly orchestrated drama.

Why would they come up with this transparent attempt to manipulate the low information voters? Who knows? Did it make anyone feel warm and fuzzy for our hero President? Probably. There are a lot of idiots out there. Did it take the focus off the disastrous website? I don’t think so. Whatever the reason was that Obama and his advisers had to dream up this silly scheme it certainly smacks of desperation. If I was him I would fire them all. But, who knows? As stupid as this idea was, it could have been his. Maybe he’ll fire himself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eupEkeYOhj4&feature=player_embedded

It's designed for people like tucky DR. They fall for it hook, line, and sinker every time...

[DEVOREFLYER]

Actually I think he's a Power Bait guy on a pay lake.

[etucker1959]

Actually I think he's a Power Bait guy on a pay lake.

Nay, I'm like your hero I troll for my trout!!!!!!!

[etucker1959]

It's designed for people like tucky DR. They fall for it hook, line, and sinker every time...

Speaking of that, who was the guy quoting that McAfee clown as some kind of expert. I just saw a program about that guy OMG!!!!!!!! He's a sex pervert, a murderer and an all around wacko. (Allegedly) Apparently good ole Fox network, doesn't screen their experts very well either!!!!!

[DockRat]

Speaking of that, who was the guy quoting that McAfee clown as some kind of expert. I just saw a program about that guy OMG!!!!!!!! He's a sex pervert, a murderer and an all around wacko. (Allegedly) Apparently good ole Fox network, doesn't screen their experts very well either!!!!!

He turned into a party boy BUT look at his history.
Wacko ? Sex pervert. :LOL: Spending millions sipping cocktails at a beach house with wild women running around a beach house ? Dude makes over $100,000,000 designing programs and anti virus, I'd call him a expert. Murderer ? No proof. :Rolls Eyes:
DR :Rolls Eyes:





John McAfee
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
John McAfee
Born September 18, 1945 (age 68)
Scotland.United Kingdom
Nationality British / American


John McAfee (born September 18, 1945[1]) is a British-American computer programmer and founder of McAfee, Inc.
Contents

Early life

McAfee was born in the United Kingdom and raised in Salem, Virginia. He received his bachelor's degree in mathematics from Roanoke College in 1967.
Ventures

McAfee was employed as a programmer by NASA's Institute for Space Studies in New York City from 1968 to 1970. From there he went to Univac as a software designer and later to Xerox as an operating system architect. In 1978 he joined Computer Sciences Corporation as a software consultant. Later, while employed by Lockheed in the 1980s, McAfee received a copy of the Pakistani Brain computer virus and began developing software to combat viruses.

In 1987 McAfee founded McAfee Associates, a computer anti-virus company. He was the first to distribute anti-virus software using the shareware business model.[citation needed] In 1989, he quit Lockheed and began working full-time at McAfee Associates, which he initially operated from his home in Santa Clara, California.[citation needed] The company was incorporated in Delaware in 1992, and McAfee resigned from the company in 1994. Two years after McAfee Associates went public, McAfee sold his remaining stake in the company. Network Associates was formed in 1997 as a merger of McAfee Associates and Network General. This company later became Network Associates, a name it retained for seven years until it was renamed McAfee. Now a subsidiary of Intel corporation, McAfee remains today as one of the largest anti-virus companies in the world.

Other business ventures that he founded included Tribal Voice, which developed one of the first instant messaging programs. PowWow. In 2000, John McAfee invested in and joined the board of directors of Zone Labs, makers of firewall software, prior to its acquisition by Check Point Software in 2003.

In August 2009, The New York Times reported that McAfee's personal fortune had declined to $4 million from a peak of $100 million, the effect of the global financial crisis and recession on his investments.

Beginning in February 2010, McAfee started a new venture in the field of bacterial quorum sensing. His company QuorumEx has its headquarters in Belize and is working towards producing commercial all natural antibiotics based on anti-quorum sensing technology.
Personal life

McAfee teaches yoga and has written several books about yoga.

In a 2012 article in Mensa Bulletin, the magazine of American Mensa, he stated that being the developer of the first commercial anti-virus program has made him "the most popular hacking target", adding "Hackers see hacking me as a badge of honor". He added that for his own security he has other people buy his computer equipment for him, uses pseudonyms for setting up computers and logging in, and changes his IP address several times a day.

In 2012, when asked if he personally uses McAfee anti-virus he replied by saying "I take it off," and that "It's too annoying."

As of January 2013, McAfee is living in Portland, Oregon, intending to work on an autobiography in graphic novel form.

Former cocaine baron "Boston" George Jung is rumored to be writing No Domain, McAfee's official biography.
Legal Issues

On April 30, 2012, McAfee's property in Orange Walk Town, Belize, was raided by the Gang Suppression Unit of the Belizean Police Department. McAfee was in bed with his girlfriend at that time who McAfee said was scared by the incident. A GSU press release stated that McAfee was arrested for unlicensed drug manufacturing and possession of an unlicensed weapon. He was released without charge. In 2012, Belize police spokesman Raphael Martinez confirmed that he was not convicted nor charged but only suspected.

On November 12, 2012, Belize police started a search for McAfee as a "person of interest" in connection to the murder of American expatriate Gregory Viant Faull. Faull was found dead of a gunshot wound on November 11, 2012, at his home on the island of Ambergris Caye, the largest island in Belize. Faull was a neighbor of McAfee. No one has yet been formally charged. In a November 2012 interview with Wired, McAfee said that he has always been afraid police would kill him and thus refused their routine questions; he has since been evading the Belizean authorities. Belize's prime minister Dean Barrow called McAfee "extremely paranoid, even bonkers". McAfee fled Belize when he was sought for questioning concerning the murder.

Vice accidentally gave away his location at a Guatemalan resort in early December 2012, when a photo taken by one of its journalists accompanying McAfee was posted with the Exif geolocation metadata still attached.[30] He then appeared publicly in Guatemala City where he attempted to seek political asylum. On December 5, 2012, McAfee was arrested for illegally entering Guatemala. Shortly after being placed under arrest, a board to review McAfee's plea for asylum was formed. The committee denied his asylum, so he was taken from his holding facility to a detention center in order to await deportation to Belize. On December 6, 2012, Reuters and ABC News reported that John McAfee had two minor heart attacks in a Guatemalan detention center and was hospitalized. His lawyer stated that McAfee had not suffered heart attacks, but he had instead suffered from high blood pressure and anxiety attacks. McAfee later stated that he faked the heart attack while being held in Guatemala to buy time for his attorney to file a series of appeals that ultimately prevented his deportation to Belize, hastening the government's decision to send him back to the United States. On December 12, 2012, McAfee was released from detention in Guatemala and deported to the United States.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u611/sophiehadley1/John-McAfee-e1353322612288_zps9a8ab6b6.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/sophiehadley1/media/John-McAfee-e1353322612288_zps9a8ab6b6.jpg.html)

[HawgZWylde]

Hawgz I'll never question your patriotism or your integrity. I just wonder, normally to myself, if you are not wasting your time discussing this stuff on this website with those that are participating. I wonder if the time spent doing research and posting articles that you believe are important pieces of information is worth it because those that are involved will only disregard all that information believing that it is partisan.

The same statement I could make to those on the other side of the debate.

Not that it matters but I am glad that both sides seem to be concerned for the future of this country but when things go on forever on these threads at some point I just get curious why continue? Besides I get bored and want you guys to go on to a new argument, discussion or debate.

Thanks Seal. No, because like I said in another post, I've had folks come up to me at the waters I fish and tell me I'm doing the right thing. I've also been told of their disgust at the way "others" here attack and demean. I know I'm wasting my time on those like tucky and Quagga, but I also know there are those that I and others like Dev and DR have successfully opened their eyes to what is really transpiring here in this country. Take this thread for instance, there are 185 posts and 3,330 "hits" which means a lot of folks are reading, but not posting. If I can inform and successfully open the eyes of even just one person, then I've done my job.

Seal, somebody has to do it. Public complacency and disinterest in politics is what got our nation in the fiscal and social cesspool it finds itself in. Politicians and ideologues know that and take full advantage of it. And what better place to do it? A fishing forum is as "grassroots" as it gets. Many folks ignore the "news" because they're too engrossed in their daily lives, but they do come to places like this forum because they enjoy fishing or whatever that forum is pointed to. Do I let the constant attacks and character assassination attempts bother me? No, sure I find vile nature of it repulsive, but, I'll never back down. If you look at my history of posting, you'll see that I only attack when being attacked, those instigating said attacks are hoping that I will just go away. I won't, and I will never be silenced. I look at my children and grand children and want them to have the same opportunity at the same success, freedom, and liberties that I, and all those before us had. I, and millions of others recognize that in the direction this nation is headed, those opportunities will not be there for them and that bothers me greatly.

"I wonder if the time spent doing research and posting articles that you believe are important pieces of information is worth it because those that are involved will only disregard all that information believing that it is partisan."

It is worth it because there are those of us here that simply want to inform, and there are those here who simply want to attack, and with the vileness of their attacks and in their own words prove their partisanship and all those people viewing see it for what it is...

[HawgZWylde]

Unemployment @ 7.2%??? Is this a sick joke?

90,609,000: Americans Not in Labor Force Climbs to Another Record

October 22, 2013 - 8:43 AM
By Terence P. Jeffrey

(CNSNews.com) - The number of Americans who are 16 years or older and who have decided not to participate in the nation's labor force has climbed to a record 90,609,000 in September, according to data released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The BLS counts a person as participating in the labor force if they are 16 years or older and either have a job or have actively sought a job in the last four weeks. A person is not participating in the labor force if they are 16 or older and have not sought a job in the last four weeks.

In from July to August, according to BLS, Americans not participating in the labor force climbed from 89,957,000 to 90,473,000, pushing past 90,000,000 for the first time, with a one month increase of 516,000.

In September, it climbed again to 90,609,000, an increase of 136,000 during the month.

In January 2009, when President Barack Obama took office, there were 80,507,000 Americans not in the labor force. Thus, the number of Americans not in the labor force has increased by 10,102,000 during Obama's presidency.

The labor force participation rate, which is the percentage of the non-institutionalized population 16 years or older who either have a job or actively sought one in the last four weeks, was 63.2 percent in September. That was unchanged from August.

When President Obama took office in January 2009, the labor force participation rate was 65.7 percent.

The percentage of the civilian non-institutionalized population over 16 that was employed also remained constant from August to September at 58.6 percent. When President Obama took office in January 2009, the employment-population ratio was 60.6 percent.

The overall national unemployment rate--which is the percentage of people participating in the labor force who actively sought a job and did not find one in September--was 7.2 percent. That was a slight drop from the 7.3 percent unemployment rate in August. When President Obama took office in 2009, the unemployment rate was 7.8 percent.

The number of people actually employed increased by 133,000 last month, climbing from 144,170,000 in August to 144,303,000 in September. When Obama took office in January 2009, there were 142,153,000 Americans employed--meaning the number has increased by 2,150,000 over the past 57 months.

One reason for the increasing number of people not in the labor force is the aging of the Baby Boom generation, whose members have begun retiring--and are not being replaced by an equal number of young people entering the labor force.

Another reason is that female participation in the labor force has been declining. In January 2009, the female labor force participation rate was 59.4 percent. In September 2013, it was 57.1 percent.

- See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/90609000-americans-not-labor-force-climbs-another-record#sthash.MFKtru9k.dpuf

And the folks who dropped out that ran out of bennies and can't find jobs are where in these numbers? I tell ya, you gotta love those "fuzzy numbers" eh? This article also leaves out the fact that the vast majority of those jobs "created" by the Obozo regime, are part time...

[etucker1959]

Thanks Seal. No, because like I said in another post, I've had folks come up to me at the waters I fish and tell me I'm doing the right thing. I've also been told of their disgust at the way "others" here attack and demean. I know I'm wasting my time on those like tucky and Quagga, but I also know there are those that I and others like Dev and DR have successfully opened their eyes to what is really transpiring here in this country. Take this thread for instance, there are 185 posts and 3,330 "hits" which means a lot of folks are reading, but not posting. If I can inform and successfully open the eyes of even just one person, then I've done my job.

Seal, somebody has to do it. Public complacency and disinterest in politics is what got our nation in the fiscal and social cesspool it finds itself in. Politicians and ideologues know that and take full advantage of it. And what better place to do it? A fishing forum is as "grassroots" as it gets. Many folks ignore the "news" because they're too engrossed in their daily lives, but they do come to places like this forum because they enjoy fishing or whatever that forum is pointed to. Do I let the constant attacks and character assassination attempts bother me? No, sure I find vile nature of it repulsive, but, I'll never back down. If you look at my history of posting, you'll see that I only attack when being attacked, those instigating said attacks are hoping that I will just go away. I won't, and I will never be silenced. I look at my children and grand children and want them to have the same opportunity at the same success, freedom, and liberties that I, and all those before us had. I, and millions of others recognize that in the direction this nation is headed, those opportunities will not be there for them and that bothers me greatly.

"I wonder if the time spent doing research and posting articles that you believe are important pieces of information is worth it because those that are involved will only disregard all that information believing that it is partisan."

It is worth it because there are those of us here that simply want to inform, and there are those here who simply want to attack, and with the vileness of their attacks and in their own words prove their partisanship and all those people viewing see it for what it is...

I know you're talking to Seal, but my name was mentioned. Tucky and Quaga are merely pointing out the error in your logic and the fact that you offer no practical solutions. Does this country have major problems? Hell Yes!!!!!!! Is the current administration addressing those problems. Yes and no, mainly no. The problems our country has, needs new and practical solutions tried and so far nobody is talking about those.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Frenchy use the search function on this board and look up the topic "My 2 cents" that I posted a year ago, solutions where submitted. No usuable input from you or da Quagga, just more useless talkin' points from the left.

[HawgZWylde]

New research from the Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee shows that over the last 5 years, the U.S. has spent about $3.7 trillion on welfare. Here's a chart(click link below), showing that spending versus transportation, education, and NASA spending:

"We have just concluded the 5th fiscal year since President Obama took office. During those five years, the federal government has spent a total $3.7 trillion on approximately 80 different means-tested poverty and welfare programs. The common feature of means-tested assistance programs is that they are graduated based on a person’s income and, in contrast to programs like Social Security or Medicare, they are a free benefit and not paid into by the recipient," says the minority side of the Senate Budget Committee.

"The enormous sum spent on means-tested assistance is nearly five times greater than the combined amount spent on NASA, education, and all federal transportation projects over that time. ($3.7 trillion is not even the entire amount spent on federal poverty support, as states contribute more than $200 billion each year to this federal nexus—primarily in the form of free low-income health care.)

"Because the welfare budget is so fragmented—food stamps are only one of 15 federal programs that provide food assistance—it makes effective oversight nearly impossible, at the same time disguising the scope of the budget from both taxpayers and lawmakers alike. For instance, it is easier for anti-reform lawmakers to oppose food stamp savings by obscuring the fact that a household receiving food stamps is often simultaneously eligible for a myriad of federal aid programs including free cash assistance, subsidized housing, free medical care, free child care, and home energy assistance.

"In the UK, six of the nation’s welfare programs have been consolidated into a single credit and total benefits have been capped at £26,000 (about $42,100 per family) in an effort to both improve standards and decrease net expenditures. A similar reform concept in the United States—combining welfare spending into a single credit—would still result in a surprisingly large welfare benefit while reducing expenditures and allowing for reforms that encourage self-sufficiency. For instance, a CATO study found that an average household in the District of Columbia currently receiving the six largest federal welfare benefits (Medicaid, TANF, SNAP, etc.) receives assistance with a converted cash value of $43,000. In Hawaii, it’s $49,000. Hypothetically, if net benefits from these myriad programs were combined into a single credit and capped at even 95 percent of that very large amount, it would save taxpayers billions while enabling reforms to promote self-sufficiency, reduce the penalty for working, and make the system fairer for taxpayers."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-us-spent-37-trillion-welfare-over-last-5-years_764582.html

[seal]

Seal, refresh my memory. Do any of the left or independents (Non Ultra Conservative types) bother to cut/paste articles very much on here??? I seem to recall that is a tactic that only the HARD RIGHT people use.

In my opinion Seal, we are going to venture into new and uncharted waters in political games, pulled off by the Republicans this coming year. Closing down the government was just their first trick. The tea party wing is just so unpredictable (Why am I trying to be so nice?) their F/nnnnnn nuts and their just kicking the can down the road for now. I can't wait for next year to see what their next trick will be, it will be anything but boring. It won't matter how crazy a stunt they will pull, there will be boards members on here, who will try to blame Obama for everything, instead of those nut bag Republicans who started the whole thing.

You knucklehead! I never said there was inherently anything wrong with posting information I said that it seems a waste of time when those that don't agree either do not read it or do not believe it. Well that's what I meant but I certainly can understand your confusion, most liberals seem to have that affliction.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Yip KNUCKLEHEAD about nails it although I was thinking in much more COLORFUL terms. :Shocked: Kool-aid drinkers all of them.

[HawgZWylde]

The GOP’s NEW plan to repeal, replace Obamacare;

The Republican Study Committee in the House of Representatives will unveil a health-care bill Wednesday to replace Obamacare.

The bill, titled the Republican Study Committee’s American Health Care Reform Act, ”dramatically opens up options for families, and dramatically lowers costs” compared to the Obamacare law, committee chairman Louisiana Rep. Steven Scalise told The Daily Caller.

The 200-page budget-neutral bill would provide $20,000 in tax deductions to families and a $7,500 deduction to individuals, so they can buy insurance from vendors in any state. It would also would allow Americans to keep the money they save by picking lower-cost providers.

In an effort to contend with one of the more popular aspects of Obamacare, the Republican bill — which was drafted by a committee subgroup headed by Rep. Phil Roe, a doctor — would also create a 10-year, $25 billion fund to lower costs for Americans afflicted with pre-existing conditions such as cancer.

Additionally, it would let people carry their insurance with them from job to job, and cut wasteful legal costs by reforming medical lawsuits.

The bill transfers authority from Obamacare’s regulators to citizens because “we think people are smart enough and will find the best plan for their family,” Scalise said.

Via a reformed national health insurance market, Americans will be able to buy many of the provisions in Obamacare that are lauded by the White House, such as coverage for adult children up to age 26, he said.

Overall costs will be controlled because government expenses are offset by savings, such as legal reform and an expected drop in medical prices, Scalise said. Instead of tax credits or subsidies, “we wanted to go with a straight deduction [from taxable income, because] it gives people more of an incentive to shop around,” he said.

The bill doesn’t set any changes to Medicare and Medicaid, Scalise said. However, those two programs will be aided by elements of the legislation, such as more marketplace competition and legal reform, he said.

The study committee is not a budget committee, but a group of almost 190 House legislators that are trying to advance “a conservative social and economic agenda in the House of Representatives.” The diverse group includes conservative Rep. Steve King and House budget chief Rep. Paul Ryan.

The sponsors hope to pass the bill through the House’s budget-writing committees via “regular order.”

The new bill is a partial refutation of claims by the White House that the GOP has abandoned plans to replace the controversial Obamacare regime.

Republicans “offer no alternative,” White House spokesman Jay Carney said Sept. 16.

“They offer no hope of a better situation when it comes to healthcare for all those millions of Americans. They say, sorry, we’re going to take away those refunds, we’re going to take away the benefits that you’ve already enjoyed — all in the name of an ideological agenda,” he said.

“Our leadership has been reluctant to have a comprehensive alternative to Obamacare,” Scalise said.

“That’s been the situation for a number of years… once you say ‘This is what I’m for,’ somebody is ready to attack you for it,” he said, noting that Obamacare’s now-evident problems have provided the public with something to compare the GOP’s new bill against. (RELATED: House will vote on continuing resolution that defunds Obamacare)

The new bill’s features — especially the ability to buy insurance from out-of-state vendors — are popular among his constituents, Scalise said. Also, Americans will be able to reject insurance coverage currently mandated by federal regulators, he said.

“If sex changes operations are not something you want … if you want a barebones policy, [or] if you want a Cadillac plan,” Americans will be able to purchase what they prefer, Scalise said.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/18/revealed-the-gops-new-plan-to-repeal-replace-obamacare/#ixzz2iZGpMu5t

[HawgZWylde]

DETAILS: Summary of Republican Study Committee’s alternative to Obamacare

The Republican Study Committee will roll out their alternative to Obamacare, the “American Health Care Reform Act,” on Wednesday. RSC Chairman Steve Scalise, RSC health care working group chairman Phil Roe, and other RSC members will unveil the new legislation at a Wednesday afternoon press conference. Below is a bill summary courtesy of the RSC.

Bill Summary

Title I – Repeal of Obamacare

This legislation fully repeals the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and health care- related provisions in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010.

Title II – Increasing Access to Portable, Affordable Health Insurance

This legislation will level the playing field between those who receive insurance from an employer and those purchasing it in the individual market. It does so by replacing 1) the current uncapped tax benefit for employer-sponsored health insurance and 2) the self-employed tax deduction with an above-the-line standard deduction for health insurance (SDHI). Those with a qualifying health plan will receive an SDHI of $7,500 (individuals) or $20,000 (families) which will apply to income and payroll taxes, and will increase at CPI-U. The SDHI eliminates the current incentive to choose increasingly expensive plans by providing the full value of the deduction regardless of how expensive the plan is. For example, a family with a $15,000 plan would receive an additional $5,000 tax deduction. Based upon Kaiser Family Foundation data, the vast majority of Americans will receive a tax cut under this plan.

This tax benefit will be portable, will provide payroll tax relief to the working poor, and will give families the flexibility to choose a plan that best fits their needs.

In addition, this bill will expand access to and allowable expenses for health savings accounts (HSAs), increase the maximum allowable contribution into HSAs, and allow employers to offer a larger benefit for successful completion of a wellness program than is currently permitted.

Title III – Improving Access to Insurance for Vulnerable Americans

This legislation will expand federal support for state high risk pools to $25 billion over 10 years, providing a federalist solution to address a segment of the population that has been unable to obtain affordable insurance. Premiums in these state high risk pools will be capped at 200% of the average premium in the state.

The bill also guarantees that individuals with pre-existing conditions can move between the large group, small group, and individual health insurance markets, so long as they maintain continuous coverage. Under current law, individuals purchasing insurance in the individualmarket are protected from pre-existing condition exclusions only if they have not had a substantial break in coverage, their previous coverage was through an employer, and they fully exhaust COBRA coverage. This provision would allow individuals to receive those same protections regardless of the source of their prior coverage and without requiring them to exhaust COBRA coverage, which is often very expensive for both employees and employers.

Title IV – Encouraging a More Competitive Health Care Market

Our bill would take steps toward creating a competitive health care marketplace. This legislation would take steps to address this problem by, most notably, allowing Americans to purchase health insurance products across state lines and by permitting small businesses to pool together to negotiate better rates.

Other pro-patient reforms include amending the McCarran-Ferguson Act to ensure that federal anti-trust law applies to health insurance, making Medicare claims and payment data publicly available so that patients and taxpayers alike can better understand what they are being charged, helping states develop transparency portals with useful information on insurance plans, and stopping the federal government from denying coverage for health care services based upon comparative effectiveness data.

Title V – Reforming Medical Liability Law

This bill attempts to address the medical liability crisis that has played a role in the escalating cost of health care by implementing meaningful legal reforms that include caps on non- economic damages and limits to attorneys’ fees. These provisions set no caps on economic damages, which are often the largest component of liability awards, thus patients will continue to have their rights to economic damages protected.

Title VI – Respecting Human Life

Provides that nothing in this act requires health plans to provide coverage of abortion services, or permits any government official to require coverage of abortion. Prohibits federal funds authorized or appropriated by this act from covering abortion, except in the case of rape, incest, or when the life of the mother is jeopardized. Ensures that no state pro-life or conscience protection laws will be preempted.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/18/republican-study-committee-to-release-obamacare-alternative/

As of today, the House has passed over 40 bills related to repealing Obozocare and reforming healthcare using private sector solutions. All sit on senator Harry Reids desk effectively obstructed. Same with all the balanced budget proposals offered by the House-effectively obstructed...

[HawgZWylde]

Obama using Obamacare meltdown to raise cash

pResident Obozo is using the disastrous crash of his Obamacare website to extract cash and volunteer hours from his supporters.

“By now, you’ve probably heard that the website has not worked as smoothly as it was supposed to,” Obama told his supporters in an email sent out late Tuesday.

“That’s why I need your help,” he said, in a video pitch that links to an online fundraiser.

“The other side has already spent a whopping $400 million in anti-Obamacare TV ads,” says the language on the fundraiser site. “We don’t have to beat that, but we need to have the resources to fight back. Make a donation to support OFA today.”

The video illustrates Obama’s eagerness and ability to convert even the most awkward policy setbacks into high-profile political campaigns that can help his progressive coalition. The money may be used to support Obamacare, but it likely will also be used to help Obama wage his next election campaign — the 2014 midterm election.

In the video, Obama also offers his supporters a psychological reward for joining “Team Obamacare.”

“I’m asking you to be part of Team Obamacare… I’m asking you to help tell you friends, families, coworkers, classmates, neighbors and anyone else what the Affordable Care Act can mean for them,” he said.

“Remember, nobody ever expected this would be easy — change never is… [but] I’m absolutely confident that we will finish the job of making health care in the country not just a privilege for a fortunate few, but a right for all Americans to enjoy,” he insisted.

In fact, only three weeks, ago, on Sept. 26, Obama said it would be easy.

“Now, this is real simple,” he told an audience in Largo, Md. “It’s a website where you can compare and purchase affordable health insurance plans, side-by-side, the same way you shop for a plane ticket on Kayak — (laughter) — same way you shop for a TV on Amazon,” he said, according to the official White House transcript.

“You just go on and you start looking, and here are all the options,” he said.

Obama’s comment about health-care being a “privilege” is also off the mark.

The percentage of Americans without health insurance fell from 15.7 percent in 2011, to 15.4 percent in 2012. That percentage means that almost 50 million people lack insurance, while roughly 150 million people have private-sector health-insurance and 100 million people have limited but free health-care provided by the government.

Still, the 50 million people without insurance can get limited but free care at hospitals’ emergency care departments.

Obamacare was advertised in 2010 as a fix for people lacking health-care insurance.

That group includes many immigrants, boosting Democrats’ election-day support. In 2012, for example, 71 percent of Latino voters backed Obama, partly because roughly 70 percent of Latinos also support Obamacare.

One-third of foreign-born residents and citizens lacked insurance in 2012, while only 13 percent of native-born Americans lacked insurance in 2012.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/23/obama-using-obamacare-meltdown-to-raise-cash/#ixzz2iZcAkD7S

Anybody wonder why the progressives in both parties want to legalize up to 30 million illegals + their relatives? How about upping legal immigration by 33 million?

[etucker1959]

Hawgz I'll never question your patriotism or your integrity. I just wonder, normally to myself, if you are not wasting your time discussing this stuff on this website with those that are participating. I wonder if the time spent doing research and posting articles that you believe are important pieces of information is worth it because those that are involved will only disregard all that information believing that it is partisan.

The same statement I could make to those on the other side of the debate.

Not that it matters but I am glad that both sides seem to be concerned for the future of this country but when things go on forever on these threads at some point I just get curious why continue? Besides I get bored and want you guys to go on to a new argument, discussion or debate.

I must defend myself for being called a knucklehead!!!! lol I was commenting about what you said above. Especially the part where you said, "The same statement I could make to those on the other side of the debate." Well me and Lady Q are the other side of the debate. If you haven't noticed, "I HAVE NEVER CUT/PASTED AN ARTICLE IN MY LIFE." While my brethren do it on a daily basis. So that's why I made my comments!!!!!! Am I still a knucklehead????? Hey, ONLY SEAL CAN ANSWER THAT ONE!!!!!! I know the answer from the rest of you. lol

[seal]

I must defend myself for being called a knucklehead!!!! lol I was commenting about what you said above. Especially the part where you said, "The same statement I could make to those on the other side of the debate." Well me and Lady Q are the other side of the debate. If you haven't noticed, "I HAVE NEVER CUT/PASTED AN ARTICLE IN MY LIFE." While my brethren do it on a daily basis. So that's why I made my comments!!!!!! Am I still a knucklehead????? Hey, ONLY SEAL CAN ANSWER THAT ONE!!!!!! I know the answer from the rest of you. lol

Yes knucklehead properly describes you but there are many other less complementary terms which you could be called, so you got that.

[etucker1959]

Frenchy use the search function on this board and look up the topic "My 2 cents" that I posted a year ago, solutions where submitted. No usuable input from you or da Quagga, just more useless talkin' points from the left.
This is my point exactly!!!!!!! We have to go back a year to find a list of YOUR solutions. I throw out solutions several times a week, every week year round!!!!!!!!!!

[etucker1959]

Yes knucklehead properly describes you but there are many other less complementary terms which you could be called, so you got that.

You're a Religious man. What did the town's people do when Noah was building his Ark????????

[DEVOREFLYER]

Imagine, for those who believe in no higher power, you need only look to our government. Replace the Devil with: “If I were the Government”. Warning for a nation? Reagan had one too, he warned that you should fear anyone from the government who claims they’re there to help.



This speech was broadcast by legendary ABC Radio commentator Paul Harvey on April 3, 1965:

If I were the Devil . . . I mean, if I were the Prince of Darkness, I would of course, want to engulf the whole earth in darkness. I would have a third of its real estate and four-fifths of its population, but I would not be happy until I had seized the ripest apple on the tree, so I should set about however necessary to take over the United States. I would begin with a campaign of whispers. With the wisdom of a serpent, I would whisper to you as I whispered to Eve: “Do as you please.” “Do as you please.” To the young, I would whisper, “The Bible is a myth.” I would convince them that man created God instead of the other way around. I would confide that what is bad is good, and what is good is “square”. In the ears of the young marrieds, I would whisper that work is debasing, that cocktail parties are good for you. I would caution them not to be extreme in religion, in patriotism, in moral conduct. And the old, I would teach to pray. I would teach them to say after me: “Our Father, which art in Washington” . . .

If I were the devil, I’d educate authors in how to make lurid literature exciting so that anything else would appear dull an uninteresting. I’d threaten T.V. with dirtier movies and vice versa. And then, if I were the devil, I’d get organized. I’d infiltrate unions and urge more loafing and less work, because idle hands usually work for me. I’d peddle narcotics to whom I could. I’d sell alcohol to ladies and gentlemen of distinction. And I’d tranquilize the rest with pills. If I were the devil, I would encourage schools to refine yound intellects but neglect to discipline emotions . . . let those run wild. I would designate an athiest to front for me before the highest courts in the land and I would get preachers to say “she’s right.” With flattery and promises of power, I could get the courts to rule what I construe as against God and in favor of pornography, and thus, I would evict God from the courthouse, and then from the school house, and then from the houses of Congress and then, in His own churches I would substitute psychology for religion, and I would deify science because that way men would become smart enough to create super weapons but not wise enough to control them.

If I were Satan, I’d make the symbol of Easter an egg, and the symbol of Christmas, a bottle. If I were the devil, I would take from those who have and I would give to those who wanted, until I had killed the incentive of the ambitious. And then, my police state would force everybody back to work. Then, I could separate families, putting children in uniform, women in coal mines, and objectors in slave camps. In other words, if I were Satan, I’d just keep on doing what he’s doing.

Paul Harvey, Good Day.

[etucker1959]

Imagine, for those who believe in no higher power, you need only look to our government. Replace the Devil with: “If I were the Government”. Warning for a nation? Reagan had one too, he warned that you should fear anyone from the government who claims they’re there to help.



This speech was broadcast by legendary ABC Radio commentator Paul Harvey on April 3, 1965:

If I were the Devil . . . I mean, if I were the Prince of Darkness, I would of course, want to engulf the whole earth in darkness. I would have a third of its real estate and four-fifths of its population, but I would not be happy until I had seized the ripest apple on the tree, so I should set about however necessary to take over the United States. I would begin with a campaign of whispers. With the wisdom of a serpent, I would whisper to you as I whispered to Eve: “Do as you please.” “Do as you please.” To the young, I would whisper, “The Bible is a myth.” I would convince them that man created God instead of the other way around. I would confide that what is bad is good, and what is good is “square”. In the ears of the young marrieds, I would whisper that work is debasing, that cocktail parties are good for you. I would caution them not to be extreme in religion, in patriotism, in moral conduct. And the old, I would teach to pray. I would teach them to say after me: “Our Father, which art in Washington” . . .

If I were the devil, I’d educate authors in how to make lurid literature exciting so that anything else would appear dull an uninteresting. I’d threaten T.V. with dirtier movies and vice versa. And then, if I were the devil, I’d get organized. I’d infiltrate unions and urge more loafing and less work, because idle hands usually work for me. I’d peddle narcotics to whom I could. I’d sell alcohol to ladies and gentlemen of distinction. And I’d tranquilize the rest with pills. If I were the devil, I would encourage schools to refine yound intellects but neglect to discipline emotions . . . let those run wild. I would designate an athiest to front for me before the highest courts in the land and I would get preachers to say “she’s right.” With flattery and promises of power, I could get the courts to rule what I construe as against God and in favor of pornography, and thus, I would evict God from the courthouse, and then from the school house, and then from the houses of Congress and then, in His own churches I would substitute psychology for religion, and I would deify science because that way men would become smart enough to create super weapons but not wise enough to control them.

If I were Satan, I’d make the symbol of Easter an egg, and the symbol of Christmas, a bottle. If I were the devil, I would take from those who have and I would give to those who wanted, until I had killed the incentive of the ambitious. And then, my police state would force everybody back to work. Then, I could separate families, putting children in uniform, women in coal mines, and objectors in slave camps. In other words, if I were Satan, I’d just keep on doing what he’s doing.

Paul Harvey, Good Day.

The funny part of the whole thing, when he became pResident who had to eat so many of his own words!!!!!!!!

[seal]

You're a Religious man. What did the town's people do when Noah was building his Ark????????

Spark a fatty and laugh at him?

[etucker1959]

Spark a fatty and laugh at him?
Yep, I see you know your Bible well!!!! lol

[gogreeenz4]

Spark a fatty and laugh at him?

thats ironic i am doing the same thing right now reading *uckers posts.....

[etucker1959]

Obama using Obamacare meltdown to raise cash

pResident Obozo is using the disastrous crash of his Obamacare website to extract cash and volunteer hours from his supporters.

“By now, you’ve probably heard that the website has not worked as smoothly as it was supposed to,” Obama told his supporters in an email sent out late Tuesday.

“That’s why I need your help,” he said, in a video pitch that links to an online fundraiser.

“The other side has already spent a whopping $400 million in anti-Obamacare TV ads,” says the language on the fundraiser site. “We don’t have to beat that, but we need to have the resources to fight back. Make a donation to support OFA today.”

The video illustrates Obama’s eagerness and ability to convert even the most awkward policy setbacks into high-profile political campaigns that can help his progressive coalition. The money may be used to support Obamacare, but it likely will also be used to help Obama wage his next election campaign — the 2014 midterm election.

In the video, Obama also offers his supporters a psychological reward for joining “Team Obamacare.”

“I’m asking you to be part of Team Obamacare… I’m asking you to help tell you friends, families, coworkers, classmates, neighbors and anyone else what the Affordable Care Act can mean for them,” he said.

“Remember, nobody ever expected this would be easy — change never is… [but] I’m absolutely confident that we will finish the job of making health care in the country not just a privilege for a fortunate few, but a right for all Americans to enjoy,” he insisted.

In fact, only three weeks, ago, on Sept. 26, Obama said it would be easy.

“Now, this is real simple,” he told an audience in Largo, Md. “It’s a website where you can compare and purchase affordable health insurance plans, side-by-side, the same way you shop for a plane ticket on Kayak — (laughter) — same way you shop for a TV on Amazon,” he said, according to the official White House transcript.

“You just go on and you start looking, and here are all the options,” he said.

Obama’s comment about health-care being a “privilege” is also off the mark.

The percentage of Americans without health insurance fell from 15.7 percent in 2011, to 15.4 percent in 2012. That percentage means that almost 50 million people lack insurance, while roughly 150 million people have private-sector health-insurance and 100 million people have limited but free health-care provided by the government.

Still, the 50 million people without insurance can get limited but free care at hospitals’ emergency care departments.

Obamacare was advertised in 2010 as a fix for people lacking health-care insurance.

That group includes many immigrants, boosting Democrats’ election-day support. In 2012, for example, 71 percent of Latino voters backed Obama, partly because roughly 70 percent of Latinos also support Obamacare.

One-third of foreign-born residents and citizens lacked insurance in 2012, while only 13 percent of native-born Americans lacked insurance in 2012.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/23/obama-using-obamacare-meltdown-to-raise-cash/#ixzz2iZcAkD7S

Anybody wonder why the progressives in both parties want to legalize up to 30 million illegals + their relatives? How about upping legal immigration by 33 million?

The funny part is, let's say Obama Care flops badly and it is repealed. Do you actual think the Republicans would even then talk about Health Care reform. HELL NO!!!!!!!!

[HawgZWylde]

The funny part is, let's say Obama Care flops badly and it is repealed. Do you actual think the Republicans would even then talk about Health Care reform. HELL NO!!!!!!!!

You know tucky, I said I wasn't going to respond to you anymore because you never read what I post, just react to words, but man dude, you outdid yourself on this one so I HAD to respond. Go back and read posts # 194 & 195, the ones right before the one you just replied to here. D-ohhh...

[DEVOREFLYER]

I think da Frenchy has got short term memory loss from to many of those funny cigarettes. Da dude is smokin' some bad chit and got his head screwed up. Heard he is gainin' weight too. And I almost forgot about that leg humpin' habit he has.

[HawgZWylde]

SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

Obamacare penalties may be delayed

The Obama administration will delay enforcement of the Affordable Care Act’s health insurance mandate, extending how long Americans may go uninsured before facing a penalty under the law, MarketWatch has learned.

The health care law requires most people to have health insurance by Jan. 1, 2014 or face a penalty, but the Administration may postpone when those penalties will go into effect. The law allows for “short coverage gaps” of up to three months before imposing the penalty, which is $95 or 1% of an individual’s income (whichever is greater) next year. Under the current rules, someone would have to be covered by March 31, an official with the Department of Health and Human Services confirmed, which is the final day that people will be able to purchase health insurance on the public exchanges, or marketplaces, created by the ACA.

But the Administration is currently working to revise its policy to ensure that people who wait till the last day in March to sign up will not face a penalty, the HHS official clarified. That means that people may go uninsured till April or May without paying a fine, as it takes up to two weeks to process health insurance applications, and new health policies take effect on the first day of each month. A last-minute March 31 application, for example, might be processed by mid-April for coverage starting May 1.

As the law stands now, in order to be covered by March 31, people would actually need to have insurance by March 1. And since it takes up to two weeks to process insurance applications, consumers would have to apply by Feb. 15, the Associated Press reported recently. (People must apply by Dec. 15 if they want coverage starting Jan. 1.)

The Administration, however, has recognized that there’s a “disconnect” between the actual and effective deadlines, as the deadline to get health insurance in time to comply with the ACA is currently six weeks earlier than the final deadline to buy it. Now, the Administration is working to make sure the two deadlines line up with each other, says the HHS official. An announcement about when it will enforce the penalty for being uninsured, and whether that penalty will be delayed beyond the de facto March 31 deadline, will come shortly. The insurance requirement still kicks in Jan. 1, and the enrollment period will close March 31 as planned, the official adds.

The potential extension comes as the federal health exchanges are under fire for ongoing technological problems that are making it difficult for some people to enroll. The Obama administration has so far resisted GOP pleas to delay the requirement that individuals purchase insurance next year, but has lately expressed frustration with the technical difficulties. Those problems, perhaps the elephant in the room during deadline discussions, may influence a decision to provide an enrollment grace period to avoid fines.

There is another sign that the penalty policy may be in flux: While HHS referred MarketWatch’s previous inquiries about the fine, and the deadline to avoid it, to the Treasury, a spokesperson there referred a request Wednesday back to HHS, suggesting that the health officials are now the ones writing new rules for the law.

It’s worth noting that the open enrollment period has already been extended to a full six months this year for the implementation of the ACA: In future years, people will have a few months in the fall to enroll in health insurance starting the following January.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-mandate-may-be-delayed-2013-10-23?link=MW_home_latest_news

So let me get this straight, the government shutdown occurred because the Obama administration refused to delay the individual mandate as ask for by the repub controlled House and now they want to delay it? Sounds like some rats are starting to sweat it as the 2014 elections near. The incompetence of this administration is stunning...



Edit

Since Obozocare is law passed by an act of congress, how does the executive branch get to override it without congressional approval?

[HawgZWylde]

I think da Frenchy has got short term memory loss from to many of those funny cigarettes. Da dude is smokin' some bad chit and got his head screwed up. Heard he is gainin' weight too. And I almost forgot about that leg humpin' habit he has.

I think it's the magic mushrooms and Peyote buttons are what did it Dev. After all he does have a tendency to wander in his ramblings. Poor fellow...

[DockRat]

If I can inform and successfully open the eyes of even just one person, then I've done my job.
:Applause:


New research from the Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee shows that over the last 5 years, the U.S. has spent about $3.7 trillion on welfare.

WOW, Mucho Dollars !!!


"I HAVE NEVER CUT/PASTED AN ARTICLE IN MY LIFE."

Maybe you should try to bring some data to defend your pResident ?
The dribble you post gets old and repetitive. At some time you will have to accept defeat and acknowledge that Obama has TOTALLY FAILED..
Or you will have to read about the Prez that FAILED in the future.
Just accept it, Obama has buried the USA into eternal DEBT.
Open your eyes to reality and forget about parties and trying to point fingers and just 'Kick the Can' :Rolls Eyes:
DR

[TroutOnly]

Seal, theres no talking to stupid,,,,,,,,the boys keep trying ,,,,,,,,,,,i'd rather just give them the big f/u and then go fishing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Lady Quagga]

Who drank all the Maker's Mark?

[etucker1959]

You know tucky, I said I wasn't going to respond to you anymore because you never read what I post, just react to words, but man dude, you outdid yourself on this one so I HAD to respond. Go back and read posts # 194 & 195, the ones right before the one you just replied to here. D-ohhh...

As I said before if Obama Care flops, the Republicans will just sweep health care reform under the rug. Explain to me if the House passes anything without the Senate approval, how it's just anything but meaningless noise. You know different?????? Of course you don't want to respond to my post, because I can nail you anytime I want. All's I have to do, is keep asking you for your practical solutions to any problems our nation faces and you'll just go hide under a rock. Don't worry, I won't be bothering you any more, I'll let you blow smoke up everyone else's butt and I won't call you on it. Peace!!!!!!!!!

[etucker1959]

:Applause:



WOW, Mucho Dollars !!!



Maybe you should try to bring some data to defend your pResident ?
The dribble you post gets old and repetitive. At some time you will have to accept defeat and acknowledge that Obama has TOTALLY FAILED..
Or you will have to read about the Prez that FAILED in the future.
Just accept it, Obama has buried the USA into eternal DEBT.
Open your eyes to reality and forget about parties and trying to point fingers and just 'Kick the Can' :Rolls Eyes:
DR
Ok DR let's go over the facts. Clinton left Bush with a decent Economy and a near balanced budget. Bush takes over and has 911 happens to him and then he goes out and starts two wars and puts it all on the Credit Card. Adds in Free prescription drugs (almost) to Medicare, all on the Credit Card. Cuts tax's adding to the debt and then has a Wall Street meltdown on his hands. Along comes Obama, he inherits a mess and a bad Economy to boot. He is no Rocket Scientist, but he wants to stop the USA from going into a Depression. So what does he do??? He pumps mass quantities of money into the Economy trying to right the ship. He does right the ship, the country doesn't go into a Depression. The problem now he is lost, and to make matters worse the Republicans are just no help at all. That's where were at now. The next person who will be president, will probably be lost too!!!!! So if you think Obama was bad, you're going to just love the next guy even more. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gogreeenz4]

website doesnt work = yet another failure of Mr. Barracks

we pour all this time money and resources into Obama Care and they cant even get a working website together? there system failed with just 300,000 users in the test phase and barrack said screw it go live and lets hope for the best.

and you think the heads of these insurance companys are happy with barrack? the are gonna send premiums thru the roof becuase they were not given what they were promised. So tuck i hope you enjoy the inflated premiums but hey we printed more money so who cares right ?

"When in doubt print more money out"
-Barrack Obama

[DockRat]

Ok DR let's go over the facts. Clinton left Bush with a decent Economy and a near balanced budget. Bush takes over and has 911 happen to him and then goes out and starts two wars and puts it all on the Credit Card. Adds in Free prescription drugs (almost) to Medicare, all on the Credit Card. Cuts tax's adding to the debt and then has a Wall Street meltdown on his hands.

Facts ? Why do you forget about the housing bubble ?

You also forgot Dodd/Frank and Katrina.
They are the MAIN reason NOT BUSH. Get your facts straight Tucky.

Watch this MSNBC video where Ron Paul discusses his 2003 predictions of the bubble thanks to Fannie/Freddie.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S3lXDOQ7ec

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq264/JSak/BeSureToThank.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/JSak/media/BeSureToThank.jpg.html):Finger:

[DockRat]

Tucky, put the crack pipe down. 2003 warnings about Fannie and Freddie.
Barney Frank fighting for cheap loans, Greenspan warns of a catastrophe.

Why do you think it is a Bush Iraq/Afgan ONLY.
The Iraq war was ONE Trillion.

Bush, McCain, Greenspan all giving warnings about all the bank lending in the video below.

The housing bubble (Foreclosures) started in 07/08 along with consumers spending (Credit Cards) is where it all started. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT TUCKY !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZkhCP2PhgE

[DockRat]

Obamacare will bury this country.
Dems not worried about Fannie/Freddie loans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg&list=PLCD7C3487881EA13C

[etucker1959]

Tucky, put the crack pipe down. 2003 warnings about Fannie and Freddie.
Barney Frank fighting for cheap loans, Greenspan warns of a catastrophe.

Why do you think it is a Bush Iraq/Afgan ONLY.
The Iraq war was ONE Trillion.

Bush, McCain, Greenspan all giving warnings about all the bank lending in the video below.

The housing bubble (Foreclosures) started in 07/08 along with consumers spending (Credit Cards) is where it all started. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT TUCKY !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZkhCP2PhgE

But the crack pipe is sooooooo gooooooood!!!!!! Let's go over my statements one at a time. Bush started 2 wars and didn't finish any of them. Obama inherited both wars and a bloated military budget. He ended one and is going to end the 2nd war within his term. As for the bloated military budget, no one here on FNN but ME has talked about drastically reducing the defense budget. As for the prescription drug fiasco, are you denying Bush did that!!! Also as for the Wall street melt down, who was the President????? Aren't you the one DR, who always blames Obama because he is the President and the country has problems. You can't have a double standard, if Obama is to be blamed because he is the President and all these bad things happen on his watch. The same Must go for Bush. These things happened on his Watch as President. I didn't even mention the tax cut's that Bush started and Obama continued in his first term. Now DR in a true debate fashion, pick any point I made and attack it individually. Your BFF.

[HawgZWylde]

Tucky, put the crack pipe down. 2003 warnings about Fannie and Freddie.
Barney Frank fighting for cheap loans, Greenspan warns of a catastrophe.

Why do you think it is a Bush Iraq/Afgan ONLY.
The Iraq war was ONE Trillion.

Bush, McCain, Greenspan all giving warnings about all the bank lending in the video below.

The housing bubble (Foreclosures) started in 07/08 along with consumers spending (Credit Cards) is where it all started. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT TUCKY !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZkhCP2PhgE

Facts straight? A liberal? There's no such thing as facts to liberals DR. Why do you think they dismiss the posting of articles and videos with rhetorical ridicule? Because they can't argue with facts they don't have. Misinformation and propaganda is their game. Absolute authoritarian power is their end game and the "ends justify the means" to them. Tucky? When do you give up on a guy like that? This is a guy that ignores everything I posted. Example, I posted two posts that gave the republican's replacement for Obozocare. A few posts later he responds with this;


Yesterday, 05:06 PM #206
etucker1959's Avatar
etucker1959
etucker1959 is online now

Join Date
May 2011
Posts
1,224

Default

"The funny part is, let's say Obama Care flops badly and it is repealed. Do you actual think the Republicans would even then talk about Health Care reform. HELL NO!!!!!!!!"

Where do you go with that?

Thanks for posting those vids DR. I tried posting those very vids some time ago. I don't know why but this website is the only place I can't post you tube vids no matter what encryption codes I copy and paste. It doesn't work...

[etucker1959]

Obamacare will bury this country.
Dems not worried about Fannie/Freddie loans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg&list=PLCD7C3487881EA13C
Help me out DR, maybe I was smoking the crack pipe??? I could have sworn I read a recent article that Fannie/Freddie was able to pay back a huge amount of money to the Federal government. The article also mentioned turning Fannie/Freddie over into private hands. I don't know, did I dream the whole thing up???

[DockRat]

I can't post you tube vids no matter what encryption codes I copy and paste. It doesn't work...

Took me a while to figure out.

Go to your youtube video.
Copy and paste the link.

Example;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg&list=PLCD7C3487881EA13C

On your FNN post click advanced;
Then click on the FNN icon that looks like a small ladder/film roll (blue).
If you put your curser arrow over it without clicking it will say 'insert video' click on it and you'll get a page like this.

Enter your video clip URL below.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1234567

Supported videos include:
Hulu YouTube (Long) YouTube (Short) Vimeo Dailymotion Metacafe Google facebook

Paste your youtube link in the box. Then click OK.
Click 'Preview Post' to see it.

If you like it then submit reply like you normally do.
DR

[DockRat]

But the crack pipe is sooooooo gooooooood!!!!!! Let's go over my statements one at a time. Bush started 2 wars and didn't finish any of them. Obama inherited both wars and a bloated military budget. He ended one and is going to end the 2nd war within his term. As for the bloated military budget, no one here on FNN but ME has talked about drastically reducing the defense budget. As for the prescription drug fiasco, are you denying Bush did that!!! Also as for the Wall street melt down, who was the President????? Aren't you the one DR, who always blames Obama because he is the President and the country has problems. You can't have a double standard, if Obama is to be blamed because he is the President and all these bad things happen on his watch. The same Must go for Bush. These things happened on his Watch as President. I didn't even mention the tax cut's that Bush started and Obama continued in his first term. Now DR in a true debate fashion, pick any point I made and attack it individually. Your BFF.

I think Cutbait, Seal ? Described it good.

The wars are a small part of the poor economy we have today (Get over it Etuck). The nightmare started when the Dems had control during the Bush years. 1st, Barney Frank helped Fannie/Freddie ease up on people getting loans. All the dummies signed up for home loans, many with variable rate loans. Home prices soared. Everybody wanted in.

Then when the market peaked around 2007 interest rates went up. Many could not afford the adjustable rate loans they agreed to pay. People started to default on loans. Housing prices started to drop. BKs all over.

Wall Street panicked, crash. Banks started to fail. This affected the market and jobs.

Then you had a recession. Obama started printing TRILLIONS of DOLLARS to bail out everybody, Obama's failure and lies about jobs, people filing for bankruptcy everywhere. Obama pours more and more money. When will this madness end ?
DR

[HawgZWylde]

Took me a while to figure out.

Go to your youtube video.
Copy and paste the link.

Example;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg&list=PLCD7C3487881EA13C

On your FNN post click advanced;
Then click on the FNN icon that looks like a small ladder/film roll (blue).
If you put your curser arrow over it without clicking it will say 'insert video' click on it and you'll get a page like this.

Enter your video clip URL below.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1234567

Supported videos include:
Hulu YouTube (Long) YouTube (Short) Vimeo Dailymotion Metacafe Google facebook

Paste your youtube link in the box. Then click OK.
Click 'Preview Post' to see it.

If you like it then submit reply like you normally do.
DR

Thanks DR...

[DockRat]

Not a big Peter Schiff (doom and gloom) fan but this 2011 vid is great.
Dude tells the truth, gives good advice, then CNN cuts him off, Lol.
Nobody wants to hear about reality, just fantasy. Lol
When the bubble blows they should have listened.:LOL:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCfFByk72do

[etucker1959]

I think Cutbait, Seal ? Described it good.

The wars are a small part of the poor economy we have today (Get over it Etuck). The nightmare started when the Dems had control during the Bush years. 1st, Barney Frank helped Fannie/Freddie ease up on people getting loans. All the dummies signed up for home loans, many with variable rate loans. Home prices soared. Everybody wanted in.

Then when the market peaked around 2007 interest rates went up. Many could not afford the adjustable rate loans they agreed to pay. People started to default on loans. Housing prices started to drop. BKs all over.

Wall Street panicked, crash. Banks started to fail. This affected the market and jobs.

Then you had a recession. Obama started printing TRILLIONS of DOLLARS to bail out everybody, Obama's failure and lies about jobs, people filing for bankruptcy everywhere. Obama pours more and more money. When will this madness end ?
DR
Great Job DockRat!!!!!!! I agree with everthing you said!!!!!!!

[etucker1959]

Not a big Peter Schiff (doom and gloom) fan but this 2011 vid is great.
Dude tells the truth, gives good advice, then CNN cuts him off, Lol.
Nobody wants to hear about reality, just fantasy. Lol
When the bubble blows they should have listened.:LOL:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCfFByk72do

HBO came out with a movie called, "too big to fail". It was suppose to based on true facts, but it was written by a liberal. The jist of the movie is, if all the big financial institutions on wall street failed, we would be in a Great Depression. The guest on the video said, "LET THEM ALL FAIL"!!!! Contrary to what the movie preached.

[DockRat]

Hey Tuck, what do think of Schiff's idea of letting the country just follow it's course and not bailing out every persons/banks mistakes ?
Or do you think we should just keep borrowing money and giving it to all that need it ?
Did you watch the Vid ?
DR

[DockRat]

I don't know, I saw the movie too big to fail.
Can you word it so people can understand you ?

[etucker1959]

Hey Tuck, what do think of Schiff's idea of letting the country just follow it's course and not bailing out every persons/banks mistakes ?
Or do you think we should just keep borrowing money and giving it to all that need it ?
Did you watch the Vid ?
DR

Yes I watched the video. There is an economic theory that Say's if a big financial institution like the ones on wall street fail. It would have a domino effect on the whole economy. End result, we would all end up in a depression. At least that's how the theory goes. No one has ever dared test the theory!!!!!!!!! Your guest on the video would!!!!

[DockRat]

Yes I watched the video. There is an economic theory that Say's if a big financial institution like the ones on wall street fail. It would have a domino effect on the whole economy. End result, we would all end up in a depression. At least that's how the theory goes. No one has ever dared test the theory!!!!!!!!! Your guest on the video would!!!!

Hey Tucker, what do you think is going to happen with the current ever increasing debt ? What will be the end result if we keep spending waaaaaay more than we can afford ?

[etucker1959]

Hey Tucker, what do you think is going to happen with the current ever increasing debt ? What will be the end result if we keep spending waaaaaay more than we can afford ?

I've got this one all figured out, I'll tell you about it tommorow.

[DockRat]

I've got this one all figured out, I'll tell you about it tommorow.

Can't wait;

On the top of Thursday's broadcast of his radio show, Sean Hannity revealed Earline Davis, the Obamacare operator he called early in his Monday show, got fired. (audio)Hannity quizzed her on how well the law is being received by applicants and she revealed no one liked it. Hannity had Davis on his show today and revealed he will give her a year's salary of $26,000 and help her find a new job.

Audio of nice Obamacare operator talks to Hannity then gets fired.
If you listen to the audio the operator says nothing wrong.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/21/hannity_calls_obamacare_call_center_operator_says_ no_one_likes_it_so_far.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl6QRZmCo64&feature=player_embedded

[HawgZWylde]

Bob: "Hey Jim, did you hear about the Obama administration scandal?
Jim: "You mean the Mexican gun running?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean SEAL Team 6?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Obama saying the avg family would save $2,500 on their premiums?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Forcing businesses to violate their religious beliefs by paying for drugs that abort the unborn?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Violating the rights and sanctity of our Churches?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Spending $634 million on a website that doesn't work?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Obama calling for an increase in our debt when he lambasted Bush for the very same thing?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Obama having NSA spy on 124 Billion Phone Calls in One Month?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Saddling our kids with $17 trillion in debt of which they can
never get out of and will not have as good a life as we have?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Bailing out Detroit after decades of corrupt Democratic management?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the State Dept. lying about Benghazi?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean voter fraud?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Intentionally trying to hurt Americans during the sequester?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Blocking veterans who secured our freedoms from their monuments but giving the green light for Illegal’s to use Monument Mall?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Denying school kids the ability to tour the White House but still spending lavishly on his parties?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean Obama saying we can keep our insurance and doctors if we wanted to?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the military not getting their votes counted?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The NSA monitoring foreign diplomats?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the use of drones in our own country without the benefit of the law?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million and right after it declared bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean the president arming the Muslim Brotherhood?"
Bob: "No the other one.
Jim: "The IRS targeting conservatives?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The DOJ spying on the press?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Sebelius shaking down health insurance executives?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean Obama spending $3.7 Trillion on Welfare Over Last 5 Years"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Giving SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and 3 months later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything else?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Millions of Americans losing their health care coverage?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Forcing Americans to include coverage in their insurance policies of items they do not want?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Ordering the release of nearly 10,000 illegal immigrants from jails and prisons, and falsely blaming the sequester?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Denying Arizona the right to protect its borders?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Providing weapons to Syrian rebels many of whom apparently are Al Qaeda"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's repeated violation of the law requiring him to submit a budget no later than the first Monday in February?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The 2012 vote where 115% of all registered voters in some counties voted 100% for Obama?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The president's unconstitutional recess appointments in an attempt to circumvent the Senate's advise-and-consent role?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The State Department interfering with an Inspector General investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "Clinton, the IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "The President using nearly $1 trillion dollars of stimulus money to fund his cronies?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "You mean Fast & Furious?"
Bob: "No, the other one."
Jim: "I give up! ... Oh wait, I think I got it! You mean that 65 million low-information voters who don't pay taxes and get free stuff from taxpayers and stuck us again with the most pandering, corrupt administration in American history?"
Bob: "THAT'S THE ONE!"

[HawgZWylde]

Ladies and Gentlemen..Quotes from the pResident of the United States of America!!

"You didn't build that"

"Get in their face and argue with them"

"They bring a knife we bring a gun"

"Clinging to their guns and religion"

"I want to do the same thing with all corporations"

"Under my plan energy prices will necessarily skyrocket"

"Tell Putin I'll have more flexibility after the election"

"The US isn't a Christian nation"

"Doctors cut off arms and legs for money"

"The Supreme Court a bunch of unelected people"

"You can build a coal plant but it will probably bankrupt you"

"I go to bed every night and wake up every morning thinking about jobs,the oil spill, etc.."

"We are 5 days away from fundamentally transforming this country"

" My Grandma was a typical white women"

"Jeremiah Wright is like family to me"

"The muslim call to prayer is the sweetest sound I've ever heard"

"I chose my friends carefully The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists"

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK. That's not leadership. That's not going to happen."

"White folks greed runs a world in need"

"I don't want my daughters punished with a baby"

[HawgZWylde]

We are so screwed...

Census Bureau: Means-Tested Gov't Benefit Recipients Outnumber Full-Time Year-Round Workers

(CNSNews.com) - Americans who were recipients of means-tested government benefits in 2011 outnumbered year-round full-time workers, according to data released this month by the Census Bureau.

They also out-numbered the total population of the Philippines.

There were 108,592,000 people in the United States in the fourth quarter of 2011 who were recipients of one or more means-tested government benefit programs, the Census Bureau said in data released this week. Meanwhile, according to the Census Bureau, there were 101,716,000 people who worked full-time year round in 2011. That included both private-sector and government workers.

That means there were about 1.07 people getting some form of means-tested government benefit for every 1 person working full-time year round.

The Census Bureau counted as recipients of means-tested government programs “anyone residing in a household in which one or more people received benefits from the program.” Many of these people lived in households receiving more than one form of means-tested benefit at the same time.

Among the 108,592,000 people who fit the Census Bureau’s description of a means-tested benefit recipient in the fourth quarter of 2011 were 82,457,000 people in households receiving Medicaid, 49,073,000 beneficiaries of food stamps, 20,223,000 on Supplemental Security Income, 23,228,000 in the Women, Infants and Children program, 13,433,000 in public or subsidized rental housing, and 5,854,000 in the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. Also among the 108,592,000 means-tested benefit recipients counted by the Census Bureau were people getting free or reduced-price lunch or breakfast, state-administered supplemental security income and means-tested veterans pensions.

The 108,592,000 people who were recipients of means-tested government programs in the fourth quarter of 2011 does not include people who received benefits from non-means-tested government programs but not from means-tested ones. That would include, for example, people who received Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, or non-means-tested veterans compensation, but did not receive benefits from a means-tested program such as food stamps or public housing.

In the fourth quarter of 2011, according to the Census Bureau, there were 49,901,000 people who received Social Security benefits, 46,440,000 who received Medicare benefits, 5,098,000 on unemployment, and 3,178,000 who received non-means-tested veterans compensation.

When the people who received non-means-tested government benefits from programs such as Social Security, Medicare, unemployment and non-means-tested veterans compensation are added to those who received means-tested government programs such as food stamps, Supplemental Security Income and public housing, the total number of people receiving government benefits from one or more programs in the United States in 2011 climbs to 151,014,000, according to the Census Bureau.

The 108,592,000 people who were beneficiaries of means-tested government programs in the United States in 2011 not only outnumbered full-time year-round workers, they also outnumbered the total population of the Philippines, which is 105,720,644, according to the CIA World Factbook. They are also approaching the number of people living in Mexico, which is 116,220,947, according to the CIA.
- See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/census-bureau-means-tested-govt-benefit-recipients-outnumber-full#sthash.d7OfO1aY.dpuf

[Lady Quagga]

Gotta love all the recent copy-and-pasting. Not a single independent thought to be had.

As if flooding a thread with other people's words somehow legitimizes your views.

[DarkShadow]

Grandma Salazar's Albóndigas SoupIngredients

1 cup boiling water
1/2 cup short-grain rice
Cooking spray
2 cups chopped onion, divided
1 (1-ounce) slice white bread
1/2 cup minced fresh cilantro, divided
1 teaspoon ground cumin
3/4 teaspoon salt, divided
1 1/2 teaspoons dried oregano
1/2 pound lean ground pork
1/2 pound ground sirloin
2 large egg whites
1 cup chopped carrot
1 garlic clove, minced
1 cup chopped seeded peeled tomato (about 8 ounces)
4 cups (1 [32-ounce] carton) fat-free, less-sodium chicken broth
2 tablespoons chopped fresh mint
2 cups chopped zucchini
1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper


Preparation

Pour water over rice, and let stand 20 minutes. Drain.
Heat a nonstick skillet over medium heat. Coat pan with cooking spray. Add 1/2 cup onion to pan; cook 5 minutes or until tender, stirring occasionally.
Place bread in a food processor; pulse 10 times or until coarse crumbs measure 1 1/4 cups. Combine rice, cooked onion, breadcrumbs, 1/4 cup cilantro, cumin, 1/4 teaspoon salt, oregano, pork, sirloin, and egg whites, stirring well. Shape mixture into 29 (1-inch) meatballs. Chill for 20 minutes.
Heat a Dutch oven over medium-high heat. Coat pan with cooking spray. Add 10 meatballs, and cook 6 minutes, browning on all sides. Remove meatballs from pan; drain well on paper towels. Wipe drippings from pan with a paper towel. Repeat procedure with cooking spray and remaining meatballs. Return pan to heat. Coat with cooking spray. Add remaining 1 1/2 cups onion, carrot, and garlic to pan; sauté 5 minutes or until vegetables are tender. Add tomato to pan, stirring to combine. Stir in broth; bring mixture to a boil. Add meatballs and mint to pan. Reduce heat, and simmer 35 minutes. Add zucchini, remaining 1/2 teaspoon salt, and pepper to pan. Cook 10 minutes. Garnish with remaining 1/4 cup cilantro.


Note: Note: Chilling the meatballs for 20 minutes helps them hold their shape when cooked.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-9UvrLyj3k

[Lady Quagga]

[h=1]Grandma Salazar's Albóndigas Soup

Your abuela's albondigas are not legit.

[Lady Quagga]

Thanks for posting those vids DR. I tried posting those very vids some time ago. I don't know why but this website is the only place I can't post you tube vids no matter what encryption codes I copy and paste. It doesn't work...

http://www.nedhardy.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2010/february/cat_fail/cat_fail_7.jpg

[City Dad]

Thanks for posting those vids DR. I tried posting those very vids some time ago. I don't know why but this website is the only place I can't post you tube vids no matter what encryption codes I copy and paste. It doesn't work...

Try rinsing out your tower, keyboard and monitor with club soda or tonic water. That usually does the trick.

[DarkShadow]

Your abuela's albondigas are not legit.

Ya, you should know. You're an expert when it comes to meat balls in your mouth.

[HawgZWylde]

Elderly patients sick over losing doctors under ObamaCare

ObamaCare is making seniors sick.

Elderly New Yorkers are in a panic after getting notices that insurance companies are booting their doctors from the Medicare Advantage program as a result of the shifting medical landscape under ObamaCare.

That leaves patients with unenviable choices: keep the same insurance plan and find another doctor, pay out of pocket or look for another plan where their physician is a member.

New York State Medical Society President Sam Unterricht is demanding a congressional probe after learning that one health carrier alone, UnitedHealthcare, is terminating contracts with up to 2,100 doctors serving 8,000 Medicare Advantage patients in the New York metro region.

The are 2.6 million elderly New Yorkers who receive Medicare, the public heath-insurance program for the elderly.

But one in three patients — nearly 900,000 — are enrolled in Advantage, Medicare HMOs run by private insurers.

Dr. Jonathan Leibowitz, who serves 30 patients under Medicare Advantage at his Brooklyn practice, said he was blindsided by UnitedHealthcare’s decision to give him the boot.

“A patient can’t see his doctor? What are they doing!” he asked.

UnitedHealthcare told Leibowitz that because of “significant changes and pressures in the health-care environment,” he’d be getting the ax on Jan. 1.

Leibowitz’s patients are furious. Alfred Gargiulio, who has cerebral palsy with a seizure disorder, has been seeing Leibowitz since 1993. “Obama had said I could keep my doctor. Now they’re doing away with my doctor. They kicked him out! After 20 years, that’s not right. We love Dr. Leibowitz,” said Gargiulio.

Another patient, Wilma Streicher, 76, was equally baffled. “Of course I want to keep Dr. Leibowitz. I don’t see why they want to push him out,” she said.

Patients of other doctors faced the same dire situation. Lung-cancer patient Jeannette Campregon, 79, received a letter from EmblemHealth saying that her internist, George Ruggiero, was terminated from her VIP High Option Medicare Advantage network.

Emblem notified her she could stay in her current plan and choose another doctor, pick a different plan to keep her doctor or call a customer-service rep for help.

“I’m going absolutely nuts,” said Campregon, who got conflicting information from three different service reps. “I don’t want to change my doctor!”

Dr. Ruggiero said, “The people who lose out are the patients.”

Federal funding to Medicare Advantage is being pared back by billions of dollars in coming years under the national Affordable Care Act. Obama said spending on the program was higher than regular Medicare and unsustainable.

UnitedHealthcare, in a statement, defended the doctor-roster cuts.

“The changes we are making will encourage higher-quality health-care coverage and help keep that coverage affordable for [patients],” said UHC spokeswoman Maria Gordon-Shydlo.

A spokesman for Emblem said the less than 1 percent of its physicians were being cut from Medicare Advantage.

An Empire Blue Cross-Blue Shield rep also said it booted “only 1 percent of doctors.”

“Those physicians were in certain specialties, including cardiology, ophthalmology and podiatry. This was done to ensure a more balanced network that would better contain cost for members,” said Empire spokeswoman Sally Kweskin.

An official with the state chapter of AARP said it’s monitoring the “horrible situation.”

AARP Associate Director Shaun Flynn said Medicare Advantage is a popular program but cautioned it’s privately run, and insurers — not patients — decide which doctors participate.

‘It’s a case of buyer beware,” he said.
http://nypost.com/2013/10/25/elderly-patients-sick-over-losing-doctors-under-obamacare/



"AARP Associate Director Shaun Flynn said Medicare Advantage is a popular program but cautioned it’s privately run, and insurers — not patients — decide which doctors participate.

‘It’s a case of buyer beware,” he said."

Coming from a biased organization that fully supports the disaster Obozocare. Looks like the progressive socialists are the ones rolling grandma in her wheelchair off the cliff...

[City Dad]

Elderly patients sick over losing doctors under ObamaCare

ObamaCare is making seniors sick.

Elderly New Yorkers are in a panic after getting notices that insurance companies are booting their doctors from the Medicare Advantage program as a result of the shifting medical landscape under ObamaCare.

That leaves patients with unenviable choices: keep the same insurance plan and find another doctor, pay out of pocket or look for another plan where their physician is a member.

New York State Medical Society President Sam Unterricht is demanding a congressional probe after learning that one health carrier alone, UnitedHealthcare, is terminating contracts with up to 2,100 doctors serving 8,000 Medicare Advantage patients in the New York metro region.

The are 2.6 million elderly New Yorkers who receive Medicare, the public heath-insurance program for the elderly.

But one in three patients — nearly 900,000 — are enrolled in Advantage, Medicare HMOs run by private insurers.

Dr. Jonathan Leibowitz, who serves 30 patients under Medicare Advantage at his Brooklyn practice, said he was blindsided by UnitedHealthcare’s decision to give him the boot.

“A patient can’t see his doctor? What are they doing!” he asked.

UnitedHealthcare told Leibowitz that because of “significant changes and pressures in the health-care environment,” he’d be getting the ax on Jan. 1.

Leibowitz’s patients are furious. Alfred Gargiulio, who has cerebral palsy with a seizure disorder, has been seeing Leibowitz since 1993. “Obama had said I could keep my doctor. Now they’re doing away with my doctor. They kicked him out! After 20 years, that’s not right. We love Dr. Leibowitz,” said Gargiulio.

Another patient, Wilma Streicher, 76, was equally baffled. “Of course I want to keep Dr. Leibowitz. I don’t see why they want to push him out,” she said.

Patients of other doctors faced the same dire situation. Lung-cancer patient Jeannette Campregon, 79, received a letter from EmblemHealth saying that her internist, George Ruggiero, was terminated from her VIP High Option Medicare Advantage network.

Emblem notified her she could stay in her current plan and choose another doctor, pick a different plan to keep her doctor or call a customer-service rep for help.

“I’m going absolutely nuts,” said Campregon, who got conflicting information from three different service reps. “I don’t want to change my doctor!”

Dr. Ruggiero said, “The people who lose out are the patients.”

Federal funding to Medicare Advantage is being pared back by billions of dollars in coming years under the national Affordable Care Act. Obama said spending on the program was higher than regular Medicare and unsustainable.

UnitedHealthcare, in a statement, defended the doctor-roster cuts.

“The changes we are making will encourage higher-quality health-care coverage and help keep that coverage affordable for [patients],” said UHC spokeswoman Maria Gordon-Shydlo.

A spokesman for Emblem said the less than 1 percent of its physicians were being cut from Medicare Advantage.

An Empire Blue Cross-Blue Shield rep also said it booted “only 1 percent of doctors.”

“Those physicians were in certain specialties, including cardiology, ophthalmology and podiatry. This was done to ensure a more balanced network that would better contain cost for members,” said Empire spokeswoman Sally Kweskin.

An official with the state chapter of AARP said it’s monitoring the “horrible situation.”

AARP Associate Director Shaun Flynn said Medicare Advantage is a popular program but cautioned it’s privately run, and insurers — not patients — decide which doctors participate.

‘It’s a case of buyer beware,” he said.



"AARP Associate Director Shaun Flynn said Medicare Advantage is a popular program but cautioned it’s privately run, and insurers — not patients — decide which doctors participate.

‘It’s a case of buyer beware,” he said."

Coming from a biased organization that fully supports the disaster Obozocare...


WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!!! (meanwhile no major American pharma company is developing compounds to counter gram negatives... don't pick those scabs!)

[HawgZWylde]

Senator Proposes Law: 'If You Like Your Health Plan, You Can Keep It Act'

Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin will propose a new law next week called: "If You Like Your Health Plan, You Can Keep It Act."
LOG.WSmith.16-11.ObamacareLogo

“One of the most important promises made by President Obama and Democrat congressional leadership to promote the Affordable Care Act was that Americans who were satisfied with their health plans could keep them. That promise has been broken. More than a million Americans have been notified that the plans they like with the coverage they have chosen have been canceled. Millions more Americans will have the plans of their choice canceled in months to come,” says Senator Johnson in a statement.

"Americans want the freedom to choose their own plans and want to be in control of their own health care. They don’t want Obamacare destroying what they have and what they like. They don’t want their personal choices regarding their health plans and their families’ health plans canceled by Obamacare.

"The ‘If You Like Your Health Plan, You Can Keep It Act’ will amend the law to make Obamacare live up to the promises of the politicians who sold the plan to the American public. I will file the bill in the coming week and hope to garner support from fellow Senators of both parties who truly want to make sure President Obama honors his promise that every American has the freedom to keep his or her own health care plan."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/senator-proposes-law-if-you-your-health-plan-you-can-keep-it-act_764734.html

Damn that TEA Party, they should just let this disaster stand so the "rats" can face the consequences of their own actions...

[HawgZWylde]

Can't wait;

On the top of Thursday's broadcast of his radio show, Sean Hannity revealed Earline Davis, the Obamacare operator he called early in his Monday show, got fired. (audio)Hannity quizzed her on how well the law is being received by applicants and she revealed no one liked it. Hannity had Davis on his show today and revealed he will give her a year's salary of $26,000 and help her find a new job.

Audio of nice Obamacare operator talks to Hannity then gets fired.
If you listen to the audio the operator says nothing wrong.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/21/hannity_calls_obamacare_call_center_operator_says_ no_one_likes_it_so_far.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl6QRZmCo64&feature=player_embedded

Hey DR, are you still holding your breath waiting for that reply?

[HawgZWylde]

Bwahaha, I see the three stooges have re-arrived. Hold your noses folks...

[seal]

Bwahaha, I see the three stooges have re-arrived. Hold your noses folks...

Oh, you're an intelligent imbecile!

Oh, a wise guy, eh?

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk!

[seal]

Oh, you're an intelligent imbecile!

Why does this one remind me so much of Etucker?