New State Health Advisory: don't eat bass, carp, and large brown trout

[dkinla]

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-mercury-fish-warning-california-lake-reservoir-20130801,0,2446669.story

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/1780/article/p2p-76881665/


new recommendations from the state health advisory... applies to women of childbearing age and young children... but they also recommend men and older women limit their intake to just 1 serving per week.

good thing a lot of people don't eat largemouth bass anyways...

also, wonder if the recs also apply to "striped" bass in our lakes like Castaic, Pyramid, etc.??

[seal]

And we are to believe everything that the State of California says? Certainly there are no ulterior motives from the extreme environmentalists and animal activists that have invaded our states government.

Would love to see an independent analysis as opposed to one that comes from California's state health advisory.

Watch out next will be a negative analysis on deer meat, birds and other animals that hunters target.

Just don't trust um so I'll continue to chow down on fish.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Don’t eat that wild game it all died from “Lead Poisoning”. lol

[DarkShadow]

So what the hell am i supposed to do with the carp that's been chilling in my bath tub for a week getting ready for the grill on Sunday?

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3708/uwwi.jpg

And let me also say that this is what is wrong with big government. Always trying to tell the people what they can and can't do.

[flyhigh123]

dark shawdow, lol, is that a real picture or just one you found on the net? haha.... why is there a can of fourloko photoshopped in there? I say grillem up on that cedar plank and then u know what they say...

[Tom]

They must really be worried about all the really large brown trout everyone is eating.

Southern California has So Many Huge browns over 16" LOL
The green people will do anything to stop the sportsmen

what a Bunch or Baloney

I think we should Ban Golfing as too many people get hit by the Golf Balls and in the last year 40 Condor died from being hit by Golf Balls



http://www.latimes.com/news/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-mercury-fish-warning-california-lake-reservoir-20130801,0,2446669.story

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/1780/article/p2p-76881665/


new recommendations from the state health advisory... applies to women of childbearing age and young children... but they also recommend men and older women limit their intake to just 1 serving per week.

good thing a lot of people don't eat largemouth bass anyways...

also, wonder if the recs also apply to "striped" bass in our lakes like Castaic, Pyramid, etc.??

[DarkShadow]

dark shawdow, lol, is that a real picture or just one you found on the net? haha.... why is there a can of fourloko photoshopped in there?

That's my bath tub! (I haven't bathed all week since I caught these things at Lincoln Park)


I say grillem up on that cedar plank and then u know what they say...

They say to keep drinking the Four Lokos until it tastes good.

[dkinla]

well, for those of you interested...

here's a link to their 55-page report as to their methodology, etc.

http://www.oehha.ca.gov/fish/pdf/CALakeResAdvisory080113.pdf

I'm trying to find somewhere in the report regarding their "recently developed advisories for the 2 lakes denoted with the symbol #" which includes Pyramid Lake.

The "bass" group consisted of taxonomically related largemouth, smallmouth, and spotted bass. Hmmm, no mention of striped bass...

[fishfinder]

Too bad we have really ****** up our planet

[DarkShadow]

Too bad we have really ****** up our planet

Aww, cmon, no we haven't. Just like Climate Change, all this is, is carefully devised plot from liberals, the mainstream media, and Obama himself, to restrict our angling in the state of California.

[fishfinder]

Aww, cmon, no we haven't. Just like Climate Change, all this is, is carefully devised plot from liberals, the mainstream media, and Obama himself, to restrict our angling in the state of California.

Look. I hate obama and all those bleeding liberals just like any hard working american does. But dont be in denial. Our parents and our parents, parents were irresponsible.

[dkinla]

Well.. I'm just slightly more concerned about eating those tasty stripers.. When I can catch them from shore.. Which isn't that often anyways :LOL: but.. just like anything else in life... Eating a striper once in awhile couldn't hurt.

I'm sure there are guys that have been eating striper tacos almost every day for the past 30 yrs and they don't have any signs of mercury toxicity.

I always thought the waters/sediment in Castaic/Pyramid were pretty clean.. And that eating stripers from them would be ok.

I don't think this will change the habits of many fishermen out there.. But I guess it does make you think just a little.

Those stocked rainbow trout might be the best thing to catch/eat now :LOL:

[DarkShadow]

But dont be in denial. Our parents and our parents, parents were irresponsible.

That's what MSNBC is trying to tell you.

[HawgZWylde]

Look. I hate obama and all those bleeding liberals just like any hard working american does. But dont be in denial. Our parents and our parents, parents were irresponsible.

He doesn't hate Obama fishfinder, he is being sarcastic...

[DEVOREFLYER]

Hey I hate him and I'm not being sarcastic. If the NSA is listening FU!!!

[HawgZWylde]

That's what MSNBC is trying to tell you.

And you trust what MSNBC says?

You are aware that A lot of areas in California, the soil naturally has higher levels of mercury and asbestos silicate right? Indeed some mining tailings leached into some water back in the day, but a lot now comes naturally. Does MSNBC tell you that? Or that it's all man made, like "climate change"...

[HawgZWylde]

Hey I hate him and I'm not being sarcastic. If the NSA is listening FU!!!


I second that!

[DarkShadow]

And you trust what MSNBC says?

Of course not, that's why i said not to trust anything MSBNC says.

I only trust networks that follow my political ideology. It feels warm and fuzzy that way.

[HawgZWylde]

Of course not, that's why i said not to trust anything MSBNC says.

I only trust networks that follow my political ideology. It feels warm and fuzzy that way.

Sheesh, you had me worried there for a minute. Oh wait, warm and fuzzy over politics?

[reservoir dog]

Does this mean we have to stop eating LMB? :Shocked:

[dkinla]

well, I don't think too many ppl eat LMB anyways... at least I don't.

This new advisory kinda bums me out... I always look forward to eating a tasty striper on that rare chance I actually catch a couple... oh well...

A lot of the fish I catch while surf fishing are released too... there are also recommendations on the amount/servings of perch, some croakers, etc. that one should eat... especially in the "red" zone of Santa Monica bay/Malibu areas.

Sad... maybe the only thing "safe" to eat are those rockfish from 200 feet down way out there near the Channel Islands :Confused:

[DMS]

well, I don't think too many ppl eat LMB anyways... at least I don't.

This new advisory kinda bums me out... I always look forward to eating a tasty striper on that rare chance I actually catch a couple... oh well...

A lot of the fish I catch while surf fishing are released too... there are also recommendations on the amount/servings of perch, some croakers, etc. that one should eat... especially in the "red" zone of Santa Monica bay/Malibu areas.

Sad... maybe the only thing "safe" to eat are those rockfish from 200 feet down way out there near the Channel Islands :Confused:

I don't think you are allowed to fish for rockfish at 200 feet anymore.

[dkinla]

Sorry for my erroneous statement... I don't have much deep sea fishing knowledge... So someone here can state what is the maximum depth that is allowed now for rockfishing.

[Thisfool]

WOW i learned a lot from this thread thought i was gunna read about a suggestion about what i shouldn't eat out of concern for my health, instead i learned climate change is a lie and Obama hates fishing.

[DMS]

Sorry for my erroneous statement... I don't have much deep sea fishing knowledge... So someone here can state what is the maximum depth that is allowed now for rockfishing.

Lol I still can't figure this out as they seem to change it faster than they can print the reg books and with the closures who knows.... I think the fish are safe to eat one foot deeper than we are allowed to fish. Oh also the unicorns are safe to eat from the same place that all those giant brown trout are stacked up.

[dkinla]

WOW i learned a lot from this thread thought i was gunna read about a suggestion about what i shouldn't eat out of concern for my health, instead i learned climate change is a lie and Obama hates fishing.

My thoughts exactly... I was interested in what some of the more knowledgeable FNNers here might have to say about this study and the advisory recommendations after reviewing some of the data... But I suppose the government just wasted a lot of money on another useless study. I'm just gonna keep fishin and have a good time with my dad and the Mrs., but I don't think I'll ever look at a striped bass the same way after this study... *sigh*

I think these are pretty STRONG recommendations they are making... That women of child bearing age and young children should NOT have any servings of these fish. Although not specified... I can only assume that striped bass would fall into the top of the food chain in our lakes/reservoirs... And likely... The same recs would apply to them under the "bass" category. I don't have kids yet... But this is definitely some "food" for thought.

[seal]

It's amazing that society still exists with all the crap that can kill ya out there. People are paid to do study's, if nothing every came out of the study's those same people would not receive their research money, there is an incentive to find stuff no matter how trivial and you can find stuff in every study you do.

I am a skeptic at the core, don't trust um, don't trust their motives, don't trust their study's, don't trust their message.

Oh and I just can't stop eating LMB's, damn yummy fish stripers suck!

[cutbait]

It's amazing that society still exists with all the crap that can kill ya out there. People are paid to do study's, if nothing every came out of the study's those same people would not receive their research money, there is an incentive to find stuff no matter how trivial and you can find stuff in every study you do.

I am a skeptic at the core, don't trust um, don't trust their motives, don't trust their study's, don't trust their message.

Oh and I just can't stop eating LMB's, damn yummy fish stripers suck!


I'm with Seal

MsG, preservatives in your canned foods, sodium, that oil in potato chips can't (forgot the name) Olestra?, sugars, soda's, cholesterol, trans fats..


Lots of stuff are going to cause our demise, I don't know of one local story of a fishermani going tests up or even sick from eating local fish

I do however see a bunch of fat azzez from the above mentioned and that IS taking years off your life.

[dkinla]

hey everyone,

I hope you guys aren't taking what I'm saying the wrong way... I'm just stating some concerns I have after I read the advisory and read over some of the pages of the full report. Up until I read this report, I just assumed the waters that feed into Pyramid, Castaic, Silverwood, etc. were pretty clean considering they are supplied via the California aqueduct, and they are essential our reservoirs that supply the people of Southern California. Since I returned to SoCal about 3 years ago after being away for a long, long time in medical school, residency, fellowship, etc., etc. I just felt pretty "safe" eating the striped bass from our local waters when I get a chance to actually catch one or two... which isn't that often anyways. I really didn't put much concern at all into the eating these tasty stripers. I often would take a striper or two over to my parents so they could cook up some spicy striper stew.

Anyways, I guess I'm just a little more concerned since I don't have any kids yet, and will hopefully have that happen soon... Once I got into surf fishing here, I was aware of the fish eating guidelines the OEHHS (Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment) based on the level of PCBs found in different species of fish as recommended here (click on the following link): http://www.oehha.ca.gov/fish/so_cal/socal061709.html

I usually catch/release the barred surf perch, YFC, Corbinas, etc. of the surf fishing zone, but occasionally, will eat one or two with my parents... you all may have seen some of my Jalama beach posts that I've made the past couple years. The older generations don't really care or believe any of these recommendations anyways... as my dad would often say... "the ocean here is way cleaner than Korea" (in Korean of course). But, as for me and my wife, we might eat the occasional perch or a fish that wouldn't make it alive if it were released...

back to this new study about the freshwater bass, carp, and brown trout... I don't really care about the carp and brown trout because who eats these fish anyways?? I can only imagine what goes on with the people who catch/eat those carp from the LA River all the time... but anyways, when the data from the study reveals that certain species of fish were found to contain xxx parts per billion of mercury... that is a little concerning. Now some of you will say, well, just about everything out there is contaminated with something... yes, that is true... mercury is found in off-shore tuna, etc., but I'm just saying that this is a little concerning to me in terms of the health implications it might have on younger women, young children, and the developing fetus in-utero.

I took a few minutes last Friday and actually spoke to one of the lead scientists/authors on this study.. his name is Robert K. Brodberg (Ph.D.). You can actually talk to him (or anyone else on the study I'm sure if you look them up here: http://calepa.ca.gov/StaffDirectory/default.asp?BDO=6

He was really friendly to talk to.. very knowledgeable in his field... and very talkative. I asked him what he thought about the striped bass population and why they were not included in this study. He basically said the striped bass wasn't really taken into consideration in this particular study because of the way the study was designed and something about not having enough resources to actually catch striped bass in addition to the other fish that were taken for sampling. I mentioned to him that they really should consider sampling striped bass in any future studies such as this one since striped bass are so popular in SoCal. He understood that striped bass were a very popular fish to eat, and I said well I can direct you to fishing forums that can obviously support the notion that a lot of people eat striped bass, including me when I get the chance. I told him that LMB are popular fish for the bass angling community, but they are often caught for the sport of it, and often released by most anglers. He also stated that he has been to some striper fishing clubs up in the bay area, and that he also enjoys the fishing aspect of catching, and eating the occasional striper.

Anyhow, a couple of other obvious things that came from my conversation with him:
--it's not that the water itself is contaminated, it really is the sediment that contains the mercury, and as everything else in the food chain, it works its way up and gets concentrated in the apex predators/species at the top of the food chain, especially fish that eat other little fish. He felt comfortable in stating that striped bass would probably have at least the same levels of mercury found in the other bass species (LMB, smallmouth, spotted bass).
--the bigger the fish, the higher the mercury content... he stated smaller schoolie size stripers were likely to contain less mercury than the much bigger models obviously
--he didn't have the site-specific data (such as in Pyramid Lake, Castaic, etc.) with him at the time of the conversation.

For those of you interested, and especially those of you who have some greater knowledge/degrees in environmental toxicology/etc., feel free to call him, or anyone else listed on the study. I was surprised that you could easily contact one of them. I don't have much knowledge or a degree in what these scientists/Ph.Ds are involved in.

Now, when I take a step back and look at some of the data, it is pretty amazing that their recommendation for "no consumption" in sensitive groups (meaning women of child-bearing age and children 1-17) was based on fish having a threshold of ONLY 440 parts per billion... that's basically 0.000044% level of mercury for it to be potentially deleterious the neurological development of a fetus or a young child.

I did a little more research online...

Mercury has 3 forms ( elemental mercury, inorganic salts, and organic mercury)... but organic mercury, in the form of methylmercury, is the form of mercury that most frequently causes adverse neurological problems since approximately 90% of the ingested mercury can be absorbed into the bloodstream through the GI (gastrointestinal) tract. The developing fetus' brain is especially sensitive to methylmercury. Organic mercury (especially methylmercury) are concentrated in the food chain. Fish from contaminated waters are most often implicated. Interestingly, industrial mercury pollution is dumped in the inorganic form, but small aquatic organisms and vegetation in the waters can convert it to the more harmful methylmercury. So, in the food chain, fish eat contaminated vegetation/organisms, and the mercury becomes more and more concentrated in the fish. Quite shockingly, fish PROTEIN binds more than 90% of the consumed methylmercury so tightly, than even cooking the fish (deep frying, boiling, baking, pan-frying) cannot remove it from the meat :EyePop:

Babies exposed to methylmercury in-utero are most susceptible. In addition, mercury was also discovered in the breast milk of mothers, continuing the babies' expsoure to mercury even after birth. Some of the known potential complications of mercury exposure to developing babies include low birth weight, seizure disorders, developmental delay, visual loss, hearing loss, etc. Mercury has high lipid solubility, meaning it can easily concentrate in the brain, kidney, liver, and skin.

Long term studies may also indicate the even "prenatal exposure at LOW concentrations can cause subtle, but detectable, decrements in the areas of motor function, language, and memory." There are some known studies I found on-line such as the study that looked at prenatal exposure through maternal consumption of predominantly fish/whale meat among children in the Faroe Islands that demonstrated impaired development .

Since the fetal brain is most susceptible to mercury exposure, the EPA reduced the allowable intake of methylmercury from 0.5 mcg (micrograms) to 0.1 mcg of mercury per kilogram per day. The FDA has recommended that pregnant women, breastfeeding mothers, and young children avoid eating fish with a high mercury content (> 1 ppm, here it's only 1 part per million, not parts per billion like the new study), such as in shark, swordfish, and king mackerel. This also includes tuna (mercury content between 0.5ppm and 1.5 ppm). This translates into a weekly consumption of 1 can of tuna for an adult. Mercury levels in freshwater fish vary, but, in general, bass/pike/walleye have high levels of mercury and should be eaten in moderation.

Well, at least to me... the potential for harm is certainly real and out there in our environment unfortunately. Will someone who has been eating a bunch of striper tacos every day for the past 30 years develop signs of chronic mercury toxicity someday??? who knows....

but I'm sure no government agency will ever do a study in which they compare pregnant women who eat 7 striped bass/week to pregnant women who do not, and see what the long-term follow-up will be on these women and their children. No government agency would sponsor a study that looked at young kids who eat whatever number of servings a month of bass/carp/brown trout compared to young kids that do not... and see if they start to show some signs of chronic mercury toxicity over the course of their lives..

well, I just went on a long, long post here just to communicate what my thoughts were after I read the story/report... and how that makes me feel about consuming some of the fish we catch from our local waters. I really do enjoy fishing with my family... and will probably continue to enjoy a tasty striper or two... but as for the Mrs. when she might be pregnant... hmmm... maybe not. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how certain drugs, chemicals, etc. can lead to horrible conditions like fetal alcohol syndrome, cocaine-dependent babies, etc.

I don't think the study will really have an impact on older folks and guys here... and it seems like most of my fellow FNNers here either don't care or believe anything this study has to say. And besides, even if something were to start happening to you or me when we get much older after consuming a bunch of mercury or PCB contaminated fish over our lifetime, we'll just say it's because we're getting old or blame it on the wife :Big Grin:

sure there are lots of things out there that are bad for you... everything can kill you... or lead to one's earlier demise... high cholesterol leading to heart disease, high salt intake leading to hypertension and stroke/CV disease, etc. etc., the list goes on and on... I guess what you do with the information out there is up to everyone... there are some great things that have come out of evidence-based medicine over the past century... and perhaps one should take some of what this particular study recommends... with at least just a single grain of salt, if none at all....

[DockRat]

I can only imagine what goes on with the people who catch/eat those carp from the LA River all the time...

The snaggers in Long Beach sell there Carp to local Filipinos.
Then they feed there children. http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/croatoan5376/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_eazy_kotz_graete.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/croatoan5376/media/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_eazy_kotz_graete.gif.html)

Lots of FNNers eat those tasty Salton Sea Tilapia that is fed from the New River that comes from Mexico and is the most polluted river in N America. http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/croatoan5376/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_eazy_kotz_graete.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/croatoan5376/media/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_eazy_kotz_graete.gif.html)
:Dead Horse:

[DEVOREFLYER]

I hate to throw cold water on the party but EVERYONE will die of OLD AGE if not sooner. Living into your 80's and 90's ain't a great life those last years, as my late parents said "The Golden Years SUCK" the quality of life for those in advanced old age are really ugly. Myself I would prefer to expire before my expiration date than spend 5-10 or more years in assisted living or worse. Live every day like it's your last one it well could be.

[Bobber Boy]

The snaggers in Long Beach sell there Carp to local Filipinos.
Then they feed there children. http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/croatoan5376/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_eazy_kotz_graete.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/croatoan5376/media/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_eazy_kotz_graete.gif.html)

Lots of FNNers eat those tasty Salton Sea Tilapia that is fed from the New River that comes from Mexico and is the most polluted river in N America. http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/croatoan5376/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_eazy_kotz_graete.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/croatoan5376/media/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_eazy_kotz_graete.gif.html)
:Dead Horse:

How did Tilapia escape that list? Those are nasty bass crap eating fish!

[dkinla]

I hate to throw cold water on the party but EVERYONE will die of OLD AGE if not sooner. Living into your 80's and 90's ain't a great life those last years, as my late parents said "The Golden Years SUCK" the quality of life for those in advanced old age are really ugly. Myself I would prefer to expire before my expiration date than spend 5-10 or more years in assisted living or worse. Live every day like it's your last one it well could be.

Haha. Yeah I agree. I've done some time at convalescent homes and ALFs and they're not pretty. Pretty depressing places. Especially if nobody else cares about you and nobody ever visits. We should all be so lucky someday to have family come to visit if we find ourselves in that situation. I certainly would like to go quick and easy someday. Not end up in a home.. Then get sick, most likely they're in sepsis or respiratory distress secondary to aspiration pneumonia because of being poorly taken care of at the home.. Transferred to an ICU.. And stay alive for a few more days hooked up to a vent, on several IV drips/pressors/Vanco abx, and then code.. Go code blue.. And have whatever family come to see you after you've been coded for 30 minutes. Not pretty for anyone. I've been there... Seen it happen in the ICU more times than I'd like to have experienced. Sometimes no family comes to see them afterwards. How sad.

Pretty grim way to go. As for me? I'd like to go quick after eating a hearty meal that includes some striper stew.

As I said earlier.. I don't think any of us older folks care. But can the same be said for an expectant mother? Young kids?? Hmmmm....


Again... Don't take the comments I'm saying the wrong way... I love to fish too... In fact i try to go out surf fishing at least once a week with the occasional lake Pyramid or Castaic shore trip if the tides are not good... Especially with my old man and the Mrs.

All I'm saying is that this study was a little eye opener for me (maybe not to you)... As I just assumed that our freshwater fish in our local reservoirs/lakes were relatively.. And I mean relatively.. just a little safer to eat than our surf zone counterparts.

I might make the choice someday to have the Mrs. eat a serving of trout instead, and I'll eat the serving of striped bass instead :LOL:, when she's expecting... At least it's in the back of my mind. That's just the conclusion that I think I've come to. Whatever anyone chooses to do given the information that is out there so far... is entirely up to him/her of course...

I mean at the very least... at least one takeaway from the study that can't really be argued is that some of our freshwater fish species (probably a lot more than they tested/sampled) do contain mercury (I mean, they sampled and measured the level of mercury in the meat of the fish sampled.. I don't think the researchers would fake this or somehow just make it up)... some species in certain areas have a lot higher mercury (you can look at the maps/data)... and that perhaps higher exposure in-utero during critical stages of embryological development or as a developing young child (you can look up some research studies, both in-vitro and in-vivo)... could potentially cause a problem... sounds reasonable, right?

As for us old dudes... who cares, right?... I'd rather be fishing than seeing patients all day...

[seal]

I hate to throw cold water on the party but EVERYONE will die of OLD AGE if not sooner. Living into your 80's and 90's ain't a great life those last years, as my late parents said "The Golden Years SUCK" the quality of life for those in advanced old age are really ugly. Myself I would prefer to expire before my expiration date than spend 5-10 or more years in assisted living or worse. Live every day like it's your last one it well could be.

I agree!

Hope I die before I get old, talk'n bout my generation.....

[Master Baiter1]

If I so far survived the Salton Sea Corvina, Sargo and Croaker scares since I was a kid fishing it with my dad and aqueduct stripers since then too, I think I will be fine?

[DEVOREFLYER]

Well by all account I should have died before now. Every home I lived in growing up except my present home had ungrounded two prong electrical outlets, no GFCI or AFCI's. Lead based paint and asbestos in all the building materials. DDT, Cyanide, Stricnine and Chlorodane pesticides and rodent poison. As kids we ran with scissor's YIKES, played with BB guns and still have our eyesight. Every boy had a pocket knife and whittled at school during recess, no one got stabbed. Did not have child protective latches and devices on every cabinet, drawer and door to keep us safe. No seat belts or air bags in cars, most adults smoked and the kids were always subjected to the dreaded second hand smoke oh the horror. Carried a mouthful of lead pellets instead of in our pockets when out shooting it was faster, oh and we swallowed a few too from time to time. Kept a rifle or shotgun in our cars at high school during hunting season and no one did a driveby shooting. We have become a sissy nation afraid of our own shadow and much, much too PC.

[GhettoBasster]

hey everyone,

I hope you guys aren't taking what I'm saying the wrong way... I'm just stating some concerns I have after I read the advisory and read over some of the pages of the full report. Up until I read this report, I just assumed the waters that feed into Pyramid, Castaic, Silverwood, etc. were pretty clean considering they are supplied via the California aqueduct, and they are essential our reservoirs that supply the people of Southern California. Since I returned to SoCal about 3 years ago after being away for a long, long time in medical school, residency, fellowship, etc., etc. I just felt pretty "safe" eating the striped bass from our local waters when I get a chance to actually catch one or two... which isn't that often anyways. I really didn't put much concern at all into the eating these tasty stripers. I often would take a striper or two over to my parents so they could cook up some spicy striper stew.

Anyways, I guess I'm just a little more concerned since I don't have any kids yet, and will hopefully have that happen soon... Once I got into surf fishing here, I was aware of the fish eating guidelines the OEHHS (Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment) based on the level of PCBs found in different species of fish as recommended here (click on the following link): http://www.oehha.ca.gov/fish/so_cal/socal061709.html

I usually catch/release the barred surf perch, YFC, Corbinas, etc. of the surf fishing zone, but occasionally, will eat one or two with my parents... you all may have seen some of my Jalama beach posts that I've made the past couple years. The older generations don't really care or believe any of these recommendations anyways... as my dad would often say... "the ocean here is way cleaner than Korea" (in Korean of course). But, as for me and my wife, we might eat the occasional perch or a fish that wouldn't make it alive if it were released...

back to this new study about the freshwater bass, carp, and brown trout... I don't really care about the carp and brown trout because who eats these fish anyways?? I can only imagine what goes on with the people who catch/eat those carp from the LA River all the time... but anyways, when the data from the study reveals that certain species of fish were found to contain xxx parts per billion of mercury... that is a little concerning. Now some of you will say, well, just about everything out there is contaminated with something... yes, that is true... mercury is found in off-shore tuna, etc., but I'm just saying that this is a little concerning to me in terms of the health implications it might have on younger women, young children, and the developing fetus in-utero.

I took a few minutes last Friday and actually spoke to one of the lead scientists/authors on this study.. his name is Robert K. Brodberg (Ph.D.). You can actually talk to him (or anyone else on the study I'm sure if you look them up here: http://calepa.ca.gov/StaffDirectory/default.asp?BDO=6

He was really friendly to talk to.. very knowledgeable in his field... and very talkative. I asked him what he thought about the striped bass population and why they were not included in this study. He basically said the striped bass wasn't really taken into consideration in this particular study because of the way the study was designed and something about not having enough resources to actually catch striped bass in addition to the other fish that were taken for sampling. I mentioned to him that they really should consider sampling striped bass in any future studies such as this one since striped bass are so popular in SoCal. He understood that striped bass were a very popular fish to eat, and I said well I can direct you to fishing forums that can obviously support the notion that a lot of people eat striped bass, including me when I get the chance. I told him that LMB are popular fish for the bass angling community, but they are often caught for the sport of it, and often released by most anglers. He also stated that he has been to some striper fishing clubs up in the bay area, and that he also enjoys the fishing aspect of catching, and eating the occasional striper.

Anyhow, a couple of other obvious things that came from my conversation with him:
--it's not that the water itself is contaminated, it really is the sediment that contains the mercury, and as everything else in the food chain, it works its way up and gets concentrated in the apex predators/species at the top of the food chain, especially fish that eat other little fish. He felt comfortable in stating that striped bass would probably have at least the same levels of mercury found in the other bass species (LMB, smallmouth, spotted bass).
--the bigger the fish, the higher the mercury content... he stated smaller schoolie size stripers were likely to contain less mercury than the much bigger models obviously
--he didn't have the site-specific data (such as in Pyramid Lake, Castaic, etc.) with him at the time of the conversation.

For those of you interested, and especially those of you who have some greater knowledge/degrees in environmental toxicology/etc., feel free to call him, or anyone else listed on the study. I was surprised that you could easily contact one of them. I don't have much knowledge or a degree in what these scientists/Ph.Ds are involved in.

Now, when I take a step back and look at some of the data, it is pretty amazing that their recommendation for "no consumption" in sensitive groups (meaning women of child-bearing age and children 1-17) was based on fish having a threshold of ONLY 440 parts per billion... that's basically 0.000044% level of mercury for it to be potentially deleterious the neurological development of a fetus or a young child.

I did a little more research online...

Mercury has 3 forms ( elemental mercury, inorganic salts, and organic mercury)... but organic mercury, in the form of methylmercury, is the form of mercury that most frequently causes adverse neurological problems since approximately 90% of the ingested mercury can be absorbed into the bloodstream through the GI (gastrointestinal) tract. The developing fetus' brain is especially sensitive to methylmercury. Organic mercury (especially methylmercury) are concentrated in the food chain. Fish from contaminated waters are most often implicated. Interestingly, industrial mercury pollution is dumped in the inorganic form, but small aquatic organisms and vegetation in the waters can convert it to the more harmful methylmercury. So, in the food chain, fish eat contaminated vegetation/organisms, and the mercury becomes more and more concentrated in the fish. Quite shockingly, fish PROTEIN binds more than 90% of the consumed methylmercury so tightly, than even cooking the fish (deep frying, boiling, baking, pan-frying) cannot remove it from the meat :EyePop:

Babies exposed to methylmercury in-utero are most susceptible. In addition, mercury was also discovered in the breast milk of mothers, continuing the babies' expsoure to mercury even after birth. Some of the known potential complications of mercury exposure to developing babies include low birth weight, seizure disorders, developmental delay, visual loss, hearing loss, etc. Mercury has high lipid solubility, meaning it can easily concentrate in the brain, kidney, liver, and skin.

Long term studies may also indicate the even "prenatal exposure at LOW concentrations can cause subtle, but detectable, decrements in the areas of motor function, language, and memory." There are some known studies I found on-line such as the study that looked at prenatal exposure through maternal consumption of predominantly fish/whale meat among children in the Faroe Islands that demonstrated impaired development .

Since the fetal brain is most susceptible to mercury exposure, the EPA reduced the allowable intake of methylmercury from 0.5 mcg (micrograms) to 0.1 mcg of mercury per kilogram per day. The FDA has recommended that pregnant women, breastfeeding mothers, and young children avoid eating fish with a high mercury content (> 1 ppm, here it's only 1 part per million, not parts per billion like the new study), such as in shark, swordfish, and king mackerel. This also includes tuna (mercury content between 0.5ppm and 1.5 ppm). This translates into a weekly consumption of 1 can of tuna for an adult. Mercury levels in freshwater fish vary, but, in general, bass/pike/walleye have high levels of mercury and should be eaten in moderation.

Well, at least to me... the potential for harm is certainly real and out there in our environment unfortunately. Will someone who has been eating a bunch of striper tacos every day for the past 30 years develop signs of chronic mercury toxicity someday??? who knows....

but I'm sure no government agency will ever do a study in which they compare pregnant women who eat 7 striped bass/week to pregnant women who do not, and see what the long-term follow-up will be on these women and their children. No government agency would sponsor a study that looked at young kids who eat whatever number of servings a month of bass/carp/brown trout compared to young kids that do not... and see if they start to show some signs of chronic mercury toxicity over the course of their lives..

well, I just went on a long, long post here just to communicate what my thoughts were after I read the story/report... and how that makes me feel about consuming some of the fish we catch from our local waters. I really do enjoy fishing with my family... and will probably continue to enjoy a tasty striper or two... but as for the Mrs. when she might be pregnant... hmmm... maybe not. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how certain drugs, chemicals, etc. can lead to horrible conditions like fetal alcohol syndrome, cocaine-dependent babies, etc.

I don't think the study will really have an impact on older folks and guys here... and it seems like most of my fellow FNNers here either don't care or believe anything this study has to say. And besides, even if something were to start happening to you or me when we get much older after consuming a bunch of mercury or PCB contaminated fish over our lifetime, we'll just say it's because we're getting old or blame it on the wife :Big Grin:

sure there are lots of things out there that are bad for you... everything can kill you... or lead to one's earlier demise... high cholesterol leading to heart disease, high salt intake leading to hypertension and stroke/CV disease, etc. etc., the list goes on and on... I guess what you do with the information out there is up to everyone... there are some great things that have come out of evidence-based medicine over the past century... and perhaps one should take some of what this particular study recommends... with at least just a single grain of salt, if none at all....
I want to say "thanks " for your post and the research you've done. *I can understand the skepticism expressed here; however, we all have to be careful not to infect what is good objective science with politics from whether red or blue sources.*




The gist of the report is that people in sensitive groups (women of child-bearing age and those who are young adults and younger) should avoid eating predatory fish like LMB or stripers because of the effects of bio-concentration of toxins like mercury and PCBs. *This is because mercury wreaks irreversible havoc on developing nervous systems. *The article only recommends this and doesn't talk about governmental restrictions. *I did not get the feeling that it is The Man wanting to hash on our mellow.*

The effects of mercury, especially organo-mercury compounds, has been well-established in science and public health community *just Google Minamata Bay or Minamata Disease to see the effects of mercury on a developing nervous system. *Bring this article to any doctor he or she will agree with the recommendation whether or not that doctor is a flaming liberal MSMBC watcher or a right-wing Fox News follower.

Sorry for the rant. I work in the scientific world and really hate when science is politicized. *Not saying that science is always right, but done right it is one of the few objective methods to find the truth and is willing to correct itself when proven wrong. *

[DMS]

They didn't test stripers... I think they need to hire bob if they want to learn to catch them. I think the stripers grow faster so I bet the little dinks are fine to purée for baby food sushi. (Yuch and JK).
I used to bite split shot made of lead and still do sometimes. This will cancel out the mercury with the lead.

[Master Baiter1]

Well by all account I should have died before now. Every home I lived in growing up except my present home had ungrounded two prong electrical outlets, no GFCI or AFCI's. Lead based paint and asbestos in all the building materials. DDT, Cyanide, Stricnine and Chlorodane pesticides and rodent poison. As kids we ran with scissor's YIKES, played with BB guns and still have our eyesight. Every boy had a pocket knife and whittled at school during recess, no one got stabbed. Did not have child protective latches and devices on every cabinet, drawer and door to keep us safe. No seat belts or air bags in cars, most adults smoked and the kids were always subjected to the dreaded second hand smoke oh the horror. Carried a mouthful of lead pellets instead of in our pockets when out shooting it was faster, oh and we swallowed a few too from time to time. Kept a rifle or shotgun in our cars at high school during hunting season and no one did a driveby shooting. We have become a sissy nation afraid of our own shadow and much, much too PC.
Much, much too pc. I hate pc bs. Who remembers riding skateboards without knee pads, elbow pads and a helmet? How about the Big Wheel?
42233

[Master Baiter1]

They didn't test stripers... I think they need to hire bob if they want to learn to catch them. I think the stripers grow faster so I bet the little dinks are fine to purée for baby food sushi. (Yuch and JK).
I used to bite split shot made of lead and still do sometimes. This will cancel out the mercury with the lead.

I used to and still do bite split shots. I love heavy metal too lol.

[dkinla]

Much, much too pc. I hate pc bs. Who remembers riding skateboards without knee pads, elbow pads and a helmet? How about the Big Wheel?
42233

Hey that was me back in junior high days... No helmet, no pads... We built a launch ramp and had maybe 20-30 skaters in front of our house all the time. Those were the days. We used to all skate down Wilshire Blvd in LA in Koreatown and get chased off of those office buildings by the security guards after thrashing their stairs, rails, etc. haha. I think I might still have my Chris Cook board somewhere at the parents house.. with the monster trucks, Guerilla rails, and Swiss bearings in my wheels.. I saw a kid land awkwardly from jumping off the launch ramp.. Broke his forearm, and dislocated his shoulder... He just cried and walked home.

And I agree.. I was tempted to tell that researcher they should consider hiring Bob as a striper guide in their next study. No better person out there who could help...

Oh and he was also aware of the stripers in the aqueduct as well.

[Ultralight]

While I am politically active, I do agree with those who note that we should not let our political bearing blind us to what may be real dangers. We do not know for sure of course but I would not take the advisories lightly either - especially with young children and pregnant mothers.

I personally have always wondered about stocked trout because in general, animal feed are poor quality and designed for maximum weight gain, not nutrition. I have a relative who is in the animal feed business and he would not touch animals who eat his feed....:Shocked:

I wonder if there are low cost and accurate home based test kits to test for toxins in food. I'd like to know if the rockfish out of San Diego are safe to eat or if they too have high mercury etc.

UL

[cutbait]

I too am not political. Just choose to make my own decisions and have learned to not believe the hype.


I.e. h1n1, avian bird flu, west nile

[dkinla]

While I am politically active, I do agree with those who note that we should not let our political bearing blind us to what may be real dangers. We do not know for sure of course but I would not take the advisories lightly either - especially with young children and pregnant mothers.

I personally have always wondered about stocked trout because in general, animal feed are poor quality and designed for maximum weight gain, not nutrition. I have a relative who is in the animal feed business and he would not touch animals who eat his feed....:Shocked:

I wonder if there are low cost and accurate home based test kits to test for toxins in food. I'd like to know if the rockfish out of San Diego are safe to eat or if they too have high mercury etc.

UL

Hi UL,

Hey you know I actually asked Robert Brodberg (one if the authors of the study) about the safety and the possible mercury levels in the trout that are raised in the hatcheries and the trout that DFG plants for all of us in the winter months here. He actually said they are probably going to look into that as one of their next studies. I only asked because I thought the mercury levels would be much lower if most of the hatchery trout are fed those hatchery pellets for most of their short lives.

You could call and talk to him if you want to investigate further...

[GhettoBasster]

Well by all account I should have died before now. Every home I lived in growing up except my present home had ungrounded two prong electrical outlets, no GFCI or AFCI's. Lead based paint and asbestos in all the building materials. DDT, Cyanide, Stricnine and Chlorodane pesticides and rodent poison. As kids we ran with scissor's YIKES, played with BB guns and still have our eyesight. Every boy had a pocket knife and whittled at school during recess, no one got stabbed. Did not have child protective latches and devices on every cabinet, drawer and door to keep us safe. No seat belts or air bags in cars, most adults smoked and the kids were always subjected to the dreaded second hand smoke oh the horror. Carried a mouthful of lead pellets instead of in our pockets when out shooting it was faster, oh and we swallowed a few too from time to time. Kept a rifle or shotgun in our cars at high school during hunting season and no one did a driveby shooting. We have become a sissy nation afraid of our own shadow and much, much too PC.


How could you have forgotten Lawn Darts!

[GhettoBasster]

Ayyy! The lead is no bueno! It's responsible for the fall of the Roman Empire (their use of lead pipes and all). Although when I asked a Mexican friend of mine if he thought the Mexican candy I was eating contained lead he said, " Don't worry. Lead is Mexican vitamins!". So I kept eating it. Anyways, To repeat what I wrote earlier, It is most relevant for young-uns and women who might be wanting a baby one day. For those like me who are old and half dead it is not as big a deal. I will eat stripers; just not too often. It's not the toxin that kills you - It's the dose.

[seal]

Well by all account I should have died before now. Every home I lived in growing up except my present home had ungrounded two prong electrical outlets, no GFCI or AFCI's. Lead based paint and asbestos in all the building materials. DDT, Cyanide, Stricnine and Chlorodane pesticides and rodent poison. As kids we ran with scissor's YIKES, played with BB guns and still have our eyesight. Every boy had a pocket knife and whittled at school during recess, no one got stabbed. Did not have child protective latches and devices on every cabinet, drawer and door to keep us safe. No seat belts or air bags in cars, most adults smoked and the kids were always subjected to the dreaded second hand smoke oh the horror. Carried a mouthful of lead pellets instead of in our pockets when out shooting it was faster, oh and we swallowed a few too from time to time. Kept a rifle or shotgun in our cars at high school during hunting season and no one did a driveby shooting. We have become a sissy nation afraid of our own shadow and much, much too PC.

Simply brilliant! They are trying to rubberize the country which in time, if not already, is going to produce a bunch of wus's.

Don't forget about the sun, get your buff's now!

[seal]

Hi UL,

Hey you know I actually asked Robert Brodberg (one if the authors of the study) about the safety and the possible mercury levels in the trout that are raised in the hatcheries and the trout that DFG plants for all of us in the winter months here. He actually said they are probably going to look into that as one of their next studies. I only asked because I thought the mercury levels would be much lower if most of the hatchery trout are fed those hatchery pellets for most of their short lives.

You could call and talk to him if you want to investigate further...

Oh good you have suggested to him a new study to line his pocket with more green. He can now go back to the power's that be and say "many fisherman I've talked to about this study are also very concerned about trout and stripers, more money please." Well at least maybe Bob can make some bucks off this also.

Don't take me TOO serious.

[sumodnb]

I thought I was the only one that got loked up in the bath.

[DarkShadow]

I thought I was the only one that got loked up in the bath.

It is a soothing experience. Most people prefer candles, and some smelly bath crystals, but for me, nothing beats a can of Loke Juice when you're bathing with some carp.

[seal]

It is a soothing experience. Most people prefer candles, and some smelly bath crystals, but for me, nothing beats a can of Loke Juice when you're bathing with some carp.

Ok once again I am feeling old. What the hell is loke?

[DarkShadow]

Ok once again I am feeling old. What the hell is loke?

Loke Juice!

aka, Liquid Cocaine

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ctAn2cUJOZg/TosYA0AeVaI/AAAAAAAADOs/R2ZDqBRCfdg/s320/four+loko_0.jpg

Try a few on your next fishing outing. Then call the offices of Skylark and Co. once the charges drop.