Poachers Caught at Riv Co Lake

[Highsierraslayer]

http://cdfgnews.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/cdfw-officers-catch-poachers-at-riverside-county-lake/

[chino715]

Simply ridiculous! :Censored:
It says the poachers were cited and released, but they should say how much the fine was to discourage others from thinking it was just a slap on the wrist. Bastard!! :Death2Above:

[seal]

I've found 3 gill nets at Silverwood. I've seen guys in boats dragging nets after hours.

I'm glad they got them at Canyon Lake, now I hope they get them up at Silverwood and every other lake.

[DarkShadow]

And we can all remember the gill netters at DVL in their tighty whiteys.

[5150fishn]

Nothing I love more than hearing that these :Censored: were caught! Too bad not enough of them are caught in the act.

[Fishingkid97]

That's awesome so glad they busted them.

[P.A.W.]

With any luck the judge will be an avid outdoorsman.

[Master Baiter1]

My buddy talked to a DFG warden a year and a half ago about traut lines in the duct and the game warden mentioned to him that they are trying to get the a-holes using gill nets stretched across the duct in the middle of the night out far west. Don't know if they ever got em but I sure hope so. The game warden was pissed according to my buddy and really wanted to get the guys doing it. The traut lines my buddy found were not minor either. 20+ lines with 15+ hooks on each.

[carpanglerdude]

Wow, I am sorry to hear about the poaching, but thrilled they were nabbed. Perhaps that is why the shoreline fishing has been so poor at parts of Canyon these last few months. I even stopped going...pretty sure I know exactly where they were!

[goseango]

Vail Lake is the throw net capital of so cal,bar none.

[westk]

This is the sort of thing that ruins it for everyone else. Total disregard for sportsmanship and being responsible with the natural resources. I hope they get prosecuted to the fullest extent.

[sktruth]

I've found 3 gill nets at Silverwood. I've seen guys in boats dragging nets after hours.

I'm glad they got them at Canyon Lake, now I hope they get them up at Silverwood and every other lake.

ditto, must agree, very sickening

[Stray Cat]

They should've printed their picture and aressted them.

[sumodnb]

I wonder if they were 99 Ranch market employees lol.

[HawgZWylde]

Excellent, glad they got those POS's. Why didn't they put their faces and names on the front pages of newspapers? They need to be publicly humiliated, jailed and fined. We must make an example out of them and any others caught or they'll just shrug it off and do it again...

[DarkShadow]

Hey HawgZWylde,

I know you're always up for a good discussion.

Since nobody has bit on my comment (http://fishingnetwork.net/forum4/showthread.php?74278-Busted&p=682774#post682774) on a similar thread, how about i post it here:

•

Now, let me play lawyer's advocate here, but, I find something disconcerting.

You mean to tell me that the money I've paid into my fishing license, and the general fund that the state uses for departments like the DFG, is being used patrolling a body of water that I can't even fish? Isn't that the home owner's association's responsibility?

[Fishbreath]

According to the article, they were not patrolling but were responding to a call from a concerned citizen. As far as jurisdiction goes, that has also been a topic of discussion for Vail. DFW has jurisdiction. Period. I can see where, as a general rule, self-policing private lakes with catch-and-release-only policies would not be high on enforcement priority lists. But the only private lakes exempted are those with aquaculture permits.

I frankly can't see your problem with this. DFW wardens are sworn law enforcement officers. These people were breaking the law. It would be like one of your neighbors calling the police if she saw someone breaking into your car in your own private driveway. I think you might approve of law enforcement on private property then.
.............................
Fishing tales told here - some true.
The best of Fishbreath. (http://s202.beta.photobucket.com/user/Fishbreath92028/story/2315#)

[flybynight]

How can that be ? Vail is a private lake...

[etucker1959]

How can that be ? Vail is a private lake...

I do see your point. I witness flagerent poaching violations on a daily basis during catfish season. When I tried to call the DFG, they just say they don't have the manpower to police small Regional parks. So when any of the valuable resources of the DFG goes to protect lakes that Joe T. Public can't fish. I totally agree it's a little disheartening.

[Fishbreath]

I probably should not have used Vail as an example. DFW does have jurisdiction, but as far as I know the only time they have been out in the last five years is to draw water quality samples and check for the presence of quaggas. As I said before, why would they waste scarce enforcement resources on a private self-policing catch and release only lake?

[DarkShadow]

I probably should not have used Vail as an example. DFW does have jurisdiction, but as far as I know the only time they have been out in the last five years is to draw water quality samples and check for the presence of quaggas. As I said before, why would they waste scarce enforcement resources on a private self-policing catch and release only lake?

Hate to condense things like Campbell's, but essentially my point is...

DFG wardens were used for this. It's safe to say that some of the money taken from our license purchases goes to employ these wardens. If i'm mistaken in the fact that even 1 cent of tax payer money goes to employ these wardens, feel free to correct me.

Canyon Lake is off limits to EVERYONE except for those who live there, who only have access because they pay home owner association fees. If i am incorrect, please feel to correct me.

It just feels that every person that bought a license who can't fish Canyon Lake just kinda got screwed, yet they're celebrating in the capture of these poachers. Wouldn't you rather see your tax dollars go to patrolling waters that you can fish? Perris? DVL? Castaic? Legg Lake?

Essentially, how many of us here will this bust positively affect? (And no, the "it will discourage poachers from poaching other public waters" is a weak argument and will get you a D+ in your grade.)

[seal]

(And no, the "it will discourage poachers from poaching other public waters" is a weak argument and will get you a D+ in your grade.)

Actually I would say that it could work in reverse. The poachers are now in fear of poaching Canyon lake so they will probably move to other PUBLIC waters where it's safer.

Does that get me a good grade?

[DEVOREFLYER]

The odds are that it wasn't their first time poaching or was Canyon Lake the only lake they poached. Catch them wherever they can, no water is safe for poachers.

[DarkShadow]

Catch them wherever they can, no water is safe for poachers.


Actually I would say that it could work in reverse. The poachers are now in fear of poaching Canyon lake so they will probably move to other PUBLIC waters where it's safer.


Does that get me a good grade?

Yes, your comment goes directly against Devore's train of thought. You get an A-.

Furthermore, Devore, in my life as being a license holder in California, I've been approached by the DFG SIX times. 4 of which were at Barrett Lake, go figure.

SIX times in ≈ 15 years. No water is safe for poachers? I can argue against that one with that simple statistic. I'd go as far to say that with the limited budget that the DFG now has to work with, the water has never been safer for poachers.

(But I'm glad those DFG resources are going to protect lakes that only 0.002% of license holders in California can actually fish. Next time we know folks, if anybody is poaching anywhere else, just call the DFG and let them know you may or may not have seen them using gill nets. Seems to get a quick response.)

[Fishbreath]

Dark Shadow, I still find it hard to accept that you find something negative about arresting these poachers. On the surface it appears that you are espousing a populist view that law enforcement should benefit the common man. But then you ruin that argument by saying that law enforcement should be focused to benefit those who pay the most for it (in this case license fees). I don't see a problem here. DFW received a tip. They had jurisdiction, so they responded and arrested some guys who were using gill nets to kill 238 fish. I don't know what they were doing before they responded, but I can't think of a better use of a game warden's time than arresting these criminals. If we are lucky maybe there will be enough fines levied here to somehow offset the fact that in your mind the good people of Canyon Lake did not buy enough fishing license to justify the effort. It would be naive to think that these guys have limited their illegal activity to private waterways.

[seal]

Dark Shadow, I still find it hard to accept that you find something negative about arresting these poachers. On the surface it appears that you are espousing a populist view that law enforcement should benefit the common man. But then you ruin that argument by saying that law enforcement should be focused to benefit those who pay the most for it (in this case license fees). I don't see a problem here. DFW received a tip. They had jurisdiction, so they responded and arrested some guys who were using gill nets to kill 238 fish. I don't know what they were doing before they responded, but I can't think of a better use of a game warden's time than arresting these criminals. If we are lucky maybe there will be enough fines levied here to somehow offset the fact that in your mind the good people of Canyon Lake did not buy enough fishing license to justify the effort. It would be naive to think that these guys have limited their illegal activity to private waterways.

Fishbreath, while DS can post some pretty thought provoking or some would call them inflammatory posts, this I don't believe is one of them. I make fun at times about the overly protective City dwellers that kick over legal buckets or piss and moan about not releasing enough catfish but their concerns are legit and if resources are not being used from the DFW to patrol the inner city waters or govern them properly and those funds are being used more at a private lake (one poaching arrest does not mean this is true) then it's a justifiable concern. My concerns would be that the money or influence that this private lake might have may in some way increase the DFW's presence or response to complaints and concerns.

Yup I'm bored on a Friday, screw fishing the Wood on the 4th of July weekend!

[Fishbreath]

Point taken. My guess is that the people of Canyon Lake do not really want (or necessarily need) an increased DFW presence. I suspect that many of them along with their guests do not bother to even buy a license if they do not fish elsewhere. How many times do you think a warden has been out there recently? Not many I bet. This was a one time thing, and a good thing it was as far as I'm concerned.

[HawgZWylde]

Point taken. My guess is that the people of Canyon Lake do not really want (or necessarily need) an increased DFW presence. I suspect that many of them along with their guests do not bother to even buy a license if they do not fish elsewhere. How many times do you think a warden has been out there recently? Not many I bet. This was a one time thing, and a good thing it was as far as I'm concerned.

They are indeed required to posses a cali fishing license and all laws pertaining to DFW must be followed. Even the feds are on top of the lake there;

http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/lake-elsinore/lake-elsinore-headlines-index/20130614-water-lake-elsinore-canyon-lake-work-to-meet-epa-deadline.ece

The fact that it's a gated community with a lake accessed by members and their guests does not bother me one iota. The residents who live there pay good money in local taxes, higher than average property values, and association dues for the privilege...

http://legacy.fridayflyer.com/FF-2010-10-22/FFS-15694.htm

[DEVOREFLYER]

I have three relatives that have been Game Wardens in their life ( California, Alaska, Texas). It is great to have talked with them at family reunions about their life experiences in the WILD. Each to a man has said they deal with the willful/criminal taking of game and fish and the ignorant sportsman each and every day.

The criminal type knows it is illegal and usually does it for profit or gain. The ignorant sportsman does not know the regulations and is caught just the same, in fact they are easy to catch, however both have an equal negative impact on fish and game. Ignorance of the laws is not a legal defense in a court of law and the penalties can be harsh for those that fail to know the regulations.

One of my favorite stories is of my cousin in California on the opening day of Pheasant season came across two out of state hunters sitting by their camper with their shotguns leaning against the rig. He checked for their licenses and asked if they had any luck. They said they only were able to shoot three and could not get them to fly and ground shot them. My cousin asked to see the birds thinking they might have been sick and why they would not fly. To his surprise the three birds shot were not Pheasants but were in fact California Roadrunners a protected species. To the hunters surprise the fines were very large also.

I have been checked by a Game Warden almost every time I have been out of state on a hunting trip and many times when fishing out of state, California not so much.

[Fishbreath]

They are indeed required to posses a cali fishing license and all laws pertaining to DFW must be followed. Even the feds are on top of the lake there;

I agree. I have mentioned more than once in this thread that DFW has jurisdiction at private lakes like Canyon Lake. It is just that I have had enough experience with private lakes to know what happens if there is no enforcement over time. Your cousin visits from Indiana who like to fish, and since there hasn't been anyone from DFW around for a long time, you don't bother to get him a license. Or a grandson visits and wants to fish. You take him fishing even though since you never fish yourself, you don't have a license either. By the way, I have never been to Canyon Lake. Maybe things work differently there.

[DEVOREFLYER]

Long before it became Canyon Lake and developed it was called Railroad Canyon Lake and nothing but brush and Rattlesnakes were around it for miles. The Bass and Panfish fishing was the best around when I was a kid.

[RTG]

Simply ridiculous! :Censored:
It says the poachers were cited and released, but they should say how much the fine was to discourage others from thinking it was just a slap on the wrist. Bastard!! :Death2Above:
Geez dude, the case hasn't been adjudicated yet. They haven't been to court. If you want an idea what the fine will be go the "California Uniform Bail Schedule" and look it up. Google it. That's where the courts base their fine, as well as from input from the county fish and game commission, and input fro the field (local game wardens).

[RTG]

Hey HawgZWylde,

I know you're always up for a good discussion.

Since nobody has bit on my comment (http://fishingnetwork.net/forum4/showthread.php?74278-Busted&p=682774#post682774) on a similar thread, how about i post it here:

•

Now, let me play lawyer's advocate here, but, I find something disconcerting.

You mean to tell me that the money I've paid into my fishing license, and the general fund that the state uses for departments like the DFG, is being used patrolling a body of water that I can't even fish? Isn't that the home owner's association's responsibility?
Allow me; Although Canyon Lake is private property, the waters there are waters of the state. The DFW has jurisdiction over waters of the state, and the fish and wildlife found in them. The lake is fished by private homeowners, as well as by their guests-members of the public. That is why a fishing license is required and the fishing regulations apply.

[RTG]

How can that be ? Vail is a private lake...
Vail Lake is hydrologically (spelling?) connected to the state water system. It has a creek that flows into it, and then exits it. Again, their property, but the state's water. They do not have an aquaculture permit. Therefore, contrary to popular belief, the state laws, rules and regulations apply.
Also, under state law, if a river, stream, creek, etc, has a dam that blocks the flow, AND has fish in that river that the dam impedes their passage, the owner of the dam must allow public access....unless the impoundment of water is WHOLLY located on private property. So if Vail Lake has any area of national forest or public land-you may legally fish there as long as you don't trespass on the private property.
This was how the LADWP was sued in Inyo County, allowing public access to Haiwee Reservoir. However that is not open anymore, as now these dam operators (City of LA) now claim that they have to close the fishing and public access due to terrorist threats (cough, cough, bullsh*t).

[HawgZWylde]

I agree. I have mentioned more than once in this thread that DFW has jurisdiction at private lakes like Canyon Lake. It is just that I have had enough experience with private lakes to know what happens if there is no enforcement over time. Your cousin visits from Indiana who like to fish, and since there hasn't been anyone from DFW around for a long time, you don't bother to get him a license. Or a grandson visits and wants to fish. You take him fishing even though since you never fish yourself, you don't have a license either. By the way, I have never been to Canyon Lake. Maybe things work differently there.

Beats me Fishbreath, I've never been there either. I stick with DVL or Skinner where I don't have to deal with the lake lice...

[RTG]

Yes, your comment goes directly against Devore's train of thought. You get an A-.

Furthermore, Devore, in my life as being a license holder in California, I've been approached by the DFG SIX times. 4 of which were at Barrett Lake, go figure.

SIX times in ≈ 15 years. No water is safe for poachers? I can argue against that one with that simple statistic. I'd go as far to say that with the limited budget that the DFG now has to work with, the water has never been safer for poachers.

(But I'm glad those DFG resources are going to protect lakes that only 0.002% of license holders in California can actually fish. Next time we know folks, if anybody is poaching anywhere else, just call the DFG and let them know you may or may not have seen them using gill nets. Seems to get a quick response.)
So, because of your limited contacts with DFW wardens, they are just not out there. Instead of me going back and forth with you of "yes they are", "no they're not", why don't you simply check the enforcement section of their website and look at the stats for yourself. I personally know of several good netting, spearing and chumming cases at Silverwood. I realize DFW bashing is popular these days, thanks mostly to Jennifer Fearing and the HSUS, doing her propaganda "job", but it's amazing how quick people rip the DFW. The guys did a good job. They got a call of a violation, got out there and nabbed some poachers who were stealing STATE resources. They did their job. There's no making some of you happy, no matter what they do.

[Highsierraslayer]

Although Canyon Lake is a Private Lake not all of the lake lies in the city of Canyon Lake and is therefore open to public access. Guess one would have to do some homework to find that out. I simply made a post on here to show that despite some members views, the DFW Wardens are out doing their job and putting your dollars to work. Aren't they paid to protect the natural resources? seems that is exactly what they were doing. Maybe if more people would call the CalTip hotline, more poachers would get busted. I know DFW is short handed and are most likely doing the best with what they have for now. So instead of being so critical of them why not lend a hand and help them out.

[HawgZWylde]

Although Canyon Lake is a Private Lake not all of the lake lies in the city of Canyon Lake and is therefore open to public access. Guess one would have to do some homework to find that out. I simply made a post on here to show that despite some members views, the DFW Wardens are out doing their job and putting your dollars to work. Aren't they paid to protect the natural resources? seems that is exactly what they were doing. Maybe if more people would call the CalTip hotline, more poachers would get busted. I know DFW is short handed and are most likely doing the best with what they have for now. So instead of being so critical of them why not lend a hand and help them out.

Absolutely. The back portion of the lake is on BLM land. Up until a few years ago I rode off road motorcycles all over the trails back there. One could park at "A" Street in Perris and ride to the back of the lake and fish. I know it's still BLM land but I'm not sure if access is still legal. Last time I was out there there were still BLM trail markers on the trails.

Thanks for posting this thread, it's good to see these poachers get caught. My only complaint is they need to put these morons names and pics on the front page for all to see...

[etucker1959]

Although Canyon Lake is a Private Lake not all of the lake lies in the city of Canyon Lake and is therefore open to public access. Guess one would have to do some homework to find that out. I simply made a post on here to show that despite some members views, the DFW Wardens are out doing their job and putting your dollars to work. Aren't they paid to protect the natural resources? seems that is exactly what they were doing. Maybe if more people would call the CalTip hotline, more poachers would get busted. I know DFW is short handed and are most likely doing the best with what they have for now. So instead of being so critical of them why not lend a hand and help them out.

I've got a wildcard thought about DFG enforcement on poaching. This is based on my own experience of summer time fishing in Regional Parks and the testimony of others including comments in this thread. The DFG would deny this of course. If given a choice of fishing enforcement, would the DFG rather bust people who have money or bust low income people. The DFG would say they don't care what your income level is, a poaching violation is a poaching violation. However the circumstantial evidence is to the contrary. I'll give you a few examples, in the summer time during catfish season, I have never seen a DFG officer ever in my neck of the woods. Well where are they? Their down at the Beach busting private boaters who missed fillet their Calico Bass at Sea. Why you may ask are they there instead of busting Catfish Poachers. Because the private boaters have money to pay their fines. I heard a Catfish poacher once say, "If I get caught with my 50 catfish in possession i'm just going to tell the judge how poor I am" and then expect to get away with it. Same thing at Barrett Lake, it's a C&R lake only, so their is only three violations you can get anybody on, one is fishing with no license, two not using barb less hooks or three fishing with bait. Why is the DFG always there, because people have to have money to fish Barrett lake. See my point.

[RTG]

I've got a wildcard thought about DFG enforcement on poaching. This is based on my own experience of summer time fishing in Regional Parks and the testimony of others including comments in this thread. The DFG would deny this of course. If given a choice of fishing enforcement, would the DFG rather bust people who have money or bust low income people. The DFG would say they don't care what your income level is, a poaching violation is a poaching violation. However the circumstantial evidence is to the contrary. I'll give you a few examples, in the summer time during catfish season, I have never seen a DFG officer ever in my neck of the woods. Well where are they? Their down at the Beach busting private boaters who missed fillet their Calico Bass at Sea. Why you may ask are they there instead of busting Catfish Poachers. Because the private boaters have money to pay their fines. I heard a Catfish poacher once say, "If I get caught with my 50 catfish in possession i'm just going to tell the judge how poor I am" and then expect to get away with it. Same thing at Barrett Lake, it's a C&R lake only, so their is only three violations you can get anybody on, one is fishing with no license, two not using barb less hooks or three fishing with bait. Why is the DFG always there, because people have to have money to fish Barrett lake. See my point.
That is complete bullshit. It gave me a good laugh though. You saw the DFW wardens at the ocean more often because that has priority over stocked catfish at a regional park. I bet even you don't believe what you posted. You just wanted to see what kind of a response you'd get.
Wild, spawning fish are going to get the priority over a stocked park any day. Those catfish are put in to be caught. Not to spawn and sustain the population at a regional park. Not that it's not important, but it's "low on the totem-pole". Totally ridiculous to think that DFW only cites people that can "afford" to pay a ticket. Seriously dude.....

[RTG]

By the way, when you "overheard" those "poachers" say, "If I get caught with my 50 catfish in possession i'm just going to tell the judge how poor I am" and then expect to get away with it.", did you call Cal-Tip? You didn't mention that part. Just wondering, but I think I know the answer.

[etucker1959]

By the way, when you "overheard" those "poachers" say, "If I get caught with my 50 catfish in possession i'm just going to tell the judge how poor I am" and then expect to get away with it.", did you call Cal-Tip? You didn't mention that part. Just wondering, but I think I know the answer.


We've called many times and never got a response. So with that being said, I've adopted a different strategy to combat the poachers. I try to embarrass them with words only. I'll say things like, "The limit on catfish is only 5 fish each." Or my favorite technique, when they run their over limit of catfish to their the car. I tell them, "don't bother to try to hide your fish in your vehicle, if DFG shows up someone going to Rat you out in a minute." That makes them pretty nervous when they hear that. Last but not least, just talk a bunch of Crap about them loud enough to make sure they hear you. I don't ever condone anyone from doing any thing physical to them or their property, but sometimes just embarrassing someone is all that it takes to get your point across. It also wise if you do this as a group and not as an individually.

[DMS]

We've called many times and never got a response. So with that being said, I've adopted a different strategy to combat the poachers. I try to embarrass them with words only. I'll say things like, "The limit on catfish is only 5 fish each." Or my favorite technique, when they run their over limit of catfish to their the car. I tell them, "don't bother to try to hide your fish in your vehicle, if DFG shows up someone going to Rat you out in a minute." That makes them pretty nervous when they hear that. Last but not least, just talk a bunch of Crap about them loud enough to make sure they hear you. I don't ever condone anyone from doing any thing physical to them or their property, but sometimes just embarrassing someone is all that it takes to get your point across. It also helps if you do this as a group and not as an individually.

You might check but limit on cats is generally 10 last time I looked... Still less than 50...

[etucker1959]

You might check but limit on cats is generally 10 last time I looked... Still less than 50...

You are correct for some counties, but i'm pretty sure it's 5 per person in all of LA County lakes and Streams. If the limit is not 5 in LA County, the person who authorized all the signs that are posted stating the catfish limit is 5 fish, someone is in big trouble. lol

[RTG]

You are correct for some counties, but i'm pretty sure it's 5 per person in all of LA County lakes and Streams. If the limit is not 5 in LA County, the person who authorized all the signs that are posted stating the catfish limit is 5 fish, someone is in big trouble. lol
At most county, or regional parks, the bag limit for cats is 5. Generally, the bag is 10.

[DarkShadow]

Dark Shadow, I still find it hard to accept that you find something negative about arresting these poachers.

It's not the arresting of the poachers. I understand that you have this vision that the end justifies the means, but i'm focusing on the process, not the end result. But good try.

To further factor down my point to the least common denominator, i find it funny that i hear of COUNTLESS people (including myself on, oh, about 100 occasions in my life) calling CAL TIP to report poaching in your local city parks, and other lakes WHERE EVERYONE CAN FISH IT WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS, yet these reports fall on deaf ears and nobody shows up.

As I said before, maybe we need to call in to CAL TIP and say there are people gill netting fish instead. Seems that gets a swift response.