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KidTrout
04-29-2013, 08:24 AM
This in my opinion was one of the worst openers ever. Also it was just so hot outside it seemed like it pushed the fish deeper. We started at convict lake and its usually every cast or at least every other cast I would get a hot but not this year. I only managed 6 for being there for 2 hours. I did manage to get the biggest one for my group for the weekend there though. It was only 2 1/2 lbs. then we went to silver and caught about 20 total for all of us (c&red). We then tried June for an hour and I got 3. The we went to Lundy for nothing. After that went to convict for the afternoon for nothing. All of the fish weren't even a pound. All of this talk in the papers of stocking big ones and I barely saw any big ones. It's getting worse every year it seems. Sunday we went to intake 2 and caught a bunch of small ones and then went to Sabrina which is so low that its 2 lakes now and I caught like 20. Nothing big. All of the fish were caught on Trigger worms in various colors. You can buy them on jmscustomrodholders.com

EL_CHIDO
04-29-2013, 09:24 AM
Seems like you did very well and are still disappointed?

Glass half empty?

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 09:31 AM
Seems like you did very well and are still disappointed?

Glass half empty?

We usually catch like 50 fish a piece opening day not 15-20. Also we usually get some 4 or 5 lbers.

sierraslam
04-29-2013, 09:48 AM
I heard from 2 different sources that Crowley was off the hook. Bait fishermen are happy to catch there 5 and go home though. Lot's of limits of 2 pound trout was the word I heard.

billy b
04-29-2013, 09:53 AM
With all the plastic worms to choose from ... how did you get onto "Trigger Worms?"

Jes Kurios

Joshua
04-29-2013, 10:18 AM
I used to be the same way. I set a goal of 100 fish for the opener. It was accomplished more than once, but it requires alot of energy. Running up and down the 395 fishing as many pools, holes, undercuts as possible. I was so focused on running to the next spot that I couldnt enjoy where I was at. Once you realize it isnt about the fish, it is about the experience, you will always have a great opener. That sounds so lame coming from me, but I am getting there. Dont get me wrong, I am always ready to hook into some quality fish. I guess I am officially becoming OLD. I said old not mature. You are entitled to your opinion. If it sucked this year compared to other years, that is just an observation. I am sure a slow opener beats anything else you would have been doing.

IncredibleHuck
04-29-2013, 10:23 AM
I gotta agree it was a slow opener for the majority of the people I talked to. Talked to many guys who did Crowley and it was super slow, same for Convict.

We started at Lundy and there was only a handful of guys with only 1.

Grant was slow as well.

We ended the day at North lake and Intake 2 and got into a steady bite there towards the end of the day.

PVR the day before was pretty good and some of the sand traps on the way home was also good.


I think the worse the weather, the better the fishing is on the opener. With all of this warm weather before the opener, the fish were gorging them selves on all the bug hatches.

IncredibleHuck
04-29-2013, 10:23 AM
I heard from 2 different sources that Crowley was off the hook. Bait fishermen are happy to catch there 5 and go home though. Lot's of limits of 2 pound trout was the word I heard.

Completely different from what I heard from many guys who went there.

IncredibleHuck
04-29-2013, 10:25 AM
I used to be the same way. I set a goal of 100 fish for the opener. It was accomplished more than once, but it requires alot of energy. Running up and down the 395 fishing as many pools, holes, undercuts as possible. I was so focused on running to the next spot that I couldnt enjoy where I was at. Once you realize it isnt about the fish, it is about the experience, you will always have a great opener. That sounds so lame coming from me, but I am getting there. Dont get me wrong, I am always ready to hook into some quality fish. I guess I am officially becoming OLD. I said old not mature. You are entitled to your opinion. If it sucked this year compared to other years, that is just an observation. I am sure a slow opener beats anything else you would have been doing.


Missed you at Intake 2 this year. We went in the afternoon instead of the morning.

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 10:31 AM
With all the plastic worms to choose from ... how did you get onto "Trigger Worms?"

Jes Kurios

I go to the San Bernardino lakes and he always sees me catch fish. I just started talking to him and I recently got on the pro staff.

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 10:34 AM
I used to be the same way. I set a goal of 100 fish for the opener. It was accomplished more than once, but it requires alot of energy. Running up and down the 395 fishing as many pools, holes, undercuts as possible. I was so focused on running to the next spot that I couldnt enjoy where I was at. Once you realize it isnt about the fish, it is about the experience, you will always have a great opener. That sounds so lame coming from me, but I am getting there. Dont get me wrong, I am always ready to hook into some quality fish. I guess I am officially becoming OLD. I said old not mature. You are entitled to your opinion. If it sucked this year compared to other years, that is just an observation. I am sure a slow opener beats anything else you would have been doing.

Yes I have been there on the opener and have caught over 100 fish. I am going back in may for the trout law derby so hopefully it will be good.

Joshua
04-29-2013, 11:01 AM
Missed you at Intake 2 this year. We went in the afternoon instead of the morning.
We drove by Intake 2 around 6PM. Looked crowded. We also drove up to North Lake just to check the snow level. Almost no snow. I have always wanted to hit up north lake for opener when you have to hike in. I am guessing North Lake was not as productive.

sierraslam
04-29-2013, 11:04 AM
Hmm... I know one group I talked to had a boat on Crowley, and the others fished the shore at Greenbanks. Both said they did well. I saw pictures of 2 7+ ponders from Crowley as well. I did here Convict and June were on the slow side though. Only 1 way for me to find out... get up there and fish it myself! Leaving Thursday!!

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 11:09 AM
Hmm... I know one group I talked to had a boat on Crowley, and the others fished the shore at Greenbanks. Both said they did well. I saw pictures of 2 7+ ponders from Crowley as well. I did here Convict and June were on the slow side though. Only 1 way for me to find out... get up there and fish it myself! Leaving Thursday!!

From talking to everyone it seems like Crowley was the best. I haven't seen any pictures or anything just talk about it.

SierraPeaks
04-29-2013, 11:27 AM
From talking to everyone it seems like Crowley was the best. I haven't seen any pictures or anything just talk about it.

Bridgeport Res was on fire as was Crowley. At least from my hourly reports from buddies there. Fishing is a strange thing. Especially trout fishing. Hot for some...cold for others. It's not like getting into a school of tuna and the boat's a madhouse. But hey...you caught fish. So it's all good...right ?

TroutOnly
04-29-2013, 11:30 AM
you shouldnt whine at least you got to go, if youre hunting big fish you half to fish the bigger lakes and fish from a boat , thats the way it is. if you fish the tourist spots that are easy shore access youre competing with alot of other anglers that are all looking for the big fish. ,,,,,,,,,,,,me i got to fish pvr fri afternoon with 1000 other people then had to make the drive home while i passed hundreds of cars and boats heading north , i should have been the one crying about it,,,,lol,,,,,,,,,,,,,

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 11:47 AM
you shouldnt whine at least you got to go, if youre hunting big fish you half to fish the bigger lakes and fish from a boat , thats the way it is. if you fish the tourist spots that are easy shore access youre competing with alot of other anglers that are all looking for the big fish. ,,,,,,,,,,,,me i got to fish pvr fri afternoon with 1000 other people then had to make the drive home while i passed hundreds of cars and boats heading north , i should have been the one crying about it,,,,lol,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yea I'm just going to start bringing my float tube. But there is just so much stuff in the truck.

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 11:48 AM
Bridgeport Res was on fire as was Crowley. At least from my hourly reports from buddies there. Fishing is a strange thing. Especially trout fishing. Hot for some...cold for others. It's not like getting into a school of tuna and the boat's a madhouse. But hey...you caught fish. So it's all good...right ?

Yea that's what I heard. Those 2 places seemed like the place to be.

seal
04-29-2013, 11:50 AM
The bar for having a good trout fishing trip seems really unreasonably high for some anymore. I guess the older you are the more you've seen and realize that the norm is not always having 100 fish days, if you get your limit in a day it's a good day in my opinion and sitting there picking off stocked trout by the hundreds proves nothing from a fisherman standpoint or from the type of worm your using or your skills, you just got lucky to be there when that school is just hanging around, not much skill involved there.

In my mind the Sierra's are not about catching a bunch of 4+ pound fish or chasing the Alpers trucks (I do miss the Adopt a Creek plantings when they were in their prime if you could get a fish before the Bishop locals got them all). This isn't fishing SARL, Irvine, Corona or the County planted lakes.

billy b
04-29-2013, 12:04 PM
[QUOTE=SierraPeaks;670431]Bridgeport Res was on fire as was Crowley. At least from my hourly reports from buddies there. Fishing is a strange thing. Especially trout fishing. Hot for some...cold for others. It's not like getting into a school of tuna and the boat's a madhouse. But hey...you caught fish. So it's all good...right ?[/QUOTE

YGM

IncredibleHuck
04-29-2013, 12:05 PM
Bridgeport Res was on fire as was Crowley. At least from my hourly reports from buddies there. Fishing is a strange thing. Especially trout fishing. Hot for some...cold for others. It's not like getting into a school of tuna and the boat's a madhouse. But hey...you caught fish. So it's all good...right ?


I heard about Bridgeport being great. But from what I was told by many guys up there the majority of people at Crowley were doing horrible.

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 12:15 PM
The bar for having a good trout fishing trip seems really unreasonably high for some anymore. I guess the older you are the more you've seen and realize that the norm is not always having 100 fish days, if you get your limit in a day it's a good day in my opinion and sitting there picking off stocked trout by the hundreds proves nothing from a fisherman standpoint or from the type of worm your using or your skills, you just got lucky to be there when that school is just hanging around, not much skill involved there.

In my mind the Sierra's are not about catching a bunch of 4+ pound fish or chasing the Alpers trucks (I do miss the Adopt a Creek plantings when they were in their prime if you could get a fish before the Bishop locals got them all). This isn't fishing SARL, Irvine, Corona or the County planted lakes.

Anywhere you fish for trout in so cal is 95% stocked fish so it doesn't matter. Just this was the worst opener I've ever experienced. Some may think I did awesome but usually I do better

SierraPeaks
04-29-2013, 12:44 PM
I heard about Bridgeport being great. But from what I was told by many guys up there the majority of people at Crowley were doing horrible.

It's all a matter of who you talk to...right Huck ?

IncredibleHuck
04-29-2013, 12:51 PM
It's all a matter of who you talk to...right Huck ?

Yeah thats true. Enough about the sierras its time for a trip to Utah!

sierratroutslaya
04-29-2013, 02:25 PM
It's just was not ideal conditions for an opener...lakes have been all ice free for awhile, hot weather, a BIG FULL MOON, low water conditions. This translates to fish good and fed leading up to the opener, being deep all day, coming up in the evening and on the extreme chew under the bright moonlight. In my experiences with this situation you need to be out as early and late as the laws permit. All the time in between is just time to play horseshoes and drink beer. Gotta adapt to the situation cause it does vary from year to year :) AND fishing is called fishing; not catching. Sounds like a decent trip anyways...Be up in 4 weeks.

SierraPeaks
04-29-2013, 02:44 PM
Yeah thats true. Enough about the sierras its time for a trip to Utah!

Sweet ! Where ya goin' ? Panguitch ? Flaming Gorge ? Strawberry Reservoir ?

vegas fish slayer
04-29-2013, 03:44 PM
Sweet ! Where ya goin' ? Panguitch ? Flaming Gorge ? Strawberry Reservoir ?

Ice came off Panguitch last week. Ill be there this weekend putting on my usual clinic. So if any of you so cal trout chasers want to learn something let me know my rates are reasonable. LOL

IncredibleHuck
04-29-2013, 04:05 PM
ice came off panguitch last week. Ill be there this weekend putting on my usual clinic. So if any of you so cal trout chasers want to learn something let me know my rates are reasonable. Lol

ha ha ha!!!!

Sierra_Smitty
04-29-2013, 04:27 PM
It was pretty much off the hook in my area....I was working harder at drinking beer than fishing and caught 44 at South Lake. The few groups I talked to crushed it at Crowley...I mean crushed it. There are now four confirmed 10+ Browns that came out of Lower Twin in Bridgeport over the weekend. One of my pro staffers and former employees fished Convict and their best 6 fish weighed just under 20lbs and two of them were over 4lbs. I was in flip flops and a tee shirt and BBQ'd on a beach. I considered this opener was amazing. If you did poorly you were in the wrong spot or using the wrong thing...end of story.

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 05:00 PM
It was pretty much off the hook in my area....I was working harder at drinking beer than fishing and caught 44 at South Lake. The few groups I talked to crushed it at Crowley...I mean crushed it. There are now four confirmed 10+ Browns that came out of Lower Twin in Bridgeport over the weekend. One of my pro staffers and former employees fished Convict and their best 6 fish weighed just under 20lbs and two of them were over 4lbs. I was in flip flops and a tee shirt and BBQ'd on a beach. I considered this opener was amazing. If you did poorly you were in the wrong spot or using the wrong thing...end of story.

Naw I wasn't using the wrong thing. Mini jigs and worms are what slay the fish. Yea I may have had a good trip in some people's view but in mine it was just bad. My uncle has been going to the opener for about 25 years and this was his worst trip ever also. Anyways at least I got to enjoy the view and catch fish. I will be back up for the trout law derby in May. Hopefully they don't say they put in the big boys and none get caught. They say they aren't putting in anything under 5 lbs for it.

Sierra_Smitty
04-29-2013, 05:56 PM
Naw I wasn't using the wrong thing. Mini jigs and worms are what slay the fish. Yea I may have had a good trip in some people's view but in mine it was just bad. My uncle has been going to the opener for about 25 years and this was his worst trip ever also. Anyways at least I got to enjoy the view and catch fish. I will be back up for the trout law derby in May. Hopefully they don't say they put in the big boys and none get caught. They say they aren't putting in anything under 5 lbs for it.

Nothing under 5lbs? Where?

If you were using worms and jigs then you were using the right stuff. I haven't heard much out of the loop or Lundy aside from your report so maybe those areas were just slow. The people I know who went to Convict did great using jigs...maybe the fish were balled up in certain spots and they got lucky and found them.

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 06:07 PM
Nothing under 5lbs? Where?

If you were using worms and jigs then you were using the right stuff. I haven't heard much out of the loop or Lundy aside from your report so maybe those areas were just slow. The people I know who went to Convict did great using jigs...maybe the fish were balled up in certain spots and they got lucky and found them.

I read it in the western outdoor news. They said its the 1st year doing it. I think the lakes they said they are putting them in are Mary, Mamie, George, Twins, silver, and Bridgeport Resevoir. Look it up online. It sounds like there is going to be some big ones. Yea Convict was alright where I was. I did manage to get a decent one. It seemed like I should of float tubes this year. If its this warm next year I will bring mine.

Sierra_Smitty
04-29-2013, 06:23 PM
I read it in the western outdoor news. They said its the 1st year doing it. I think the lakes they said they are putting them in are Mary, Mamie, George, Twins, silver, and Bridgeport Resevoir. Look it up online. It sounds like there is going to be some big ones. Yea Convict was alright where I was. I did manage to get a decent one. It seemed like I should of float tubes this year. If its this warm next year I will bring mine.

Found the article....thanks for that!

5+lb fish are in short supply up here hence my interest. I'm looking at buying 5 to 10's from Jess Ranch this season because IAG won't have enough 5+ Alpers fish available until 2014.

http://www.wonews.com/t-EasternSierraReport_OpenerPreview_041713.aspx

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 06:31 PM
Found the article....thanks for that!

5+lb fish are in short supply up here hence my interest. I'm looking at buying 5 to 10's from Jess Ranch this season because IAG won't have enough 5+ Alpers fish available until 2014.

http://www.wonews.com/t-EasternSierraReport_OpenerPreview_041713.aspx

Yes Jess Ranch would be awesome to be stocked up there or even Mt Lassens. Which lake do you run up there?

Sierra_Smitty
04-29-2013, 07:12 PM
Yes Jess Ranch would be awesome to be stocked up there or even Mt Lassens. Which lake do you run up there?

I run Parchers Resort & South Lake Landing in the Bishop Creek Canyon....I buy most of my fish for South Lake but we like to drop a few in Bishop Creek by our cabins for a little added excitement for the creek guys & gals. The last two years we've been really lucky scoring big fish because the Alpers operation stages some of their biggest fish in Bishop which is just down the hill from us....we broke the 10lb mark twice in 2011 and almost broke it twice in 2012 with fish coming in just under the DD mark. This year the outlook for the jumbo Alpers is a little tougher so I'm looking at alternate vendors. The guys from Jess Ranch are awesome so we're probably going to go with them....a combo of their fish with some trophy Nebraska fish maybe. I'm just not quite satisfied unless me and my crew have something impressive to chase after work.

I also own Sierra Slammers so if you want to try some interesting worms, jigs and swimbaits, look us up. I realize you're pro-staff or somebody else and there are some really good companies out there but nobody is the same ballpark as us when it comes to colors for the Sierras...

angelsfan951
04-29-2013, 07:23 PM
I run Parchers Resort & South Lake Landing in the Bishop Creek Canyon....I buy most of my fish for South Lake but we like to drop a few in Bishop Creek by our cabins for a little added excitement for the creek guys & gals. The last two years we've been really lucky scoring big fish because the Alpers operation stages some of their biggest fish in Bishop which is just down the hill from us....we broke the 10lb mark twice in 2011 and almost broke it twice in 2012 with fish coming in just under the DD mark. This year the outlook for the jumbo Alpers is a little tougher so I'm looking at alternate vendors. The guys from Jess Ranch are awesome so we're probably going to go with them....a combo of their fish with some trophy Nebraska fish maybe. I'm just not quite satisfied unless me and my crew have something impressive to chase after work.

I also own Sierra Slammers so if you want to try some interesting worms, jigs and swimbaits, look us up. I realize you're pro-staff or somebody else and there are some really good companies out there but nobody is the same ballpark as us when it comes to colors for the Sierras...


x2 i totaly agree they have some killer colors for the sierras. i stayed at parchers in october and tried them out and boy oh boy their jigs and worms put up a clinic! south lake was on fire!!

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 07:32 PM
I run Parchers Resort & South Lake Landing in the Bishop Creek Canyon....I buy most of my fish for South Lake but we like to drop a few in Bishop Creek by our cabins for a little added excitement for the creek guys & gals. The last two years we've been really lucky scoring big fish because the Alpers operation stages some of their biggest fish in Bishop which is just down the hill from us....we broke the 10lb mark twice in 2011 and almost broke it twice in 2012 with fish coming in just under the DD mark. This year the outlook for the jumbo Alpers is a little tougher so I'm looking at alternate vendors. The guys from Jess Ranch are awesome so we're probably going to go with them....a combo of their fish with some trophy Nebraska fish maybe. I'm just not quite satisfied unless me and my crew have something impressive to chase after work.

I also own Sierra Slammers so if you want to try some interesting worms, jigs and swimbaits, look us up. I realize you're pro-staff or somebody else and there are some really good companies out there but nobody is the same ballpark as us when it comes to colors for the Sierras...

That's awesome to work up there to always experience that wonderful weather up there. I heard that south lake had a phenomenal year for the big ones last year. I would always see in the reports of big catches, so it seems you know how to keep the fishing good at the lakes.

Yea I always wanted to try Sierra slammers I love the colors you make. I'm the guy who has contacted you about being on the pro staff twice. That's all I use is mini jigs and worms and you have those colors that always work in the sierras. I am always looking to join a be on the pro staff for companies. Right now I just use my friends stuff and help him out. He just makes them for a hobby. Hopefully I can find an actually company to be on the pro staff.

fishermanx14
04-29-2013, 07:38 PM
there is rumor going around on the bridgeport res. facebook page that a 22lber was caught and released

KidTrout
04-29-2013, 07:40 PM
there is rumor going around on the bridgeport res. facebook page that a 22lber was caught and released

I heard the same thing but it seems there is no confirmation of it.

SierraPeaks
04-29-2013, 08:16 PM
there is rumor going around on the bridgeport res. facebook page that a 22lber was caught and released

Turned out to be bogus. The largest trout out of the res was 5 pounds. Somebody hooked a large carp and the rumor spread like wildfire.

cambofisher
04-29-2013, 10:27 PM
Sounds like a good trip to me. Like Joshua said I use to be like that also running and gunning to try and catch as much as I can but forgetting to enjoy and take in the moment. As u get older u will eventually slow down and enjoy it more.

WishICouldFish
04-30-2013, 04:11 PM
I fished South Lake and it was all you wanted. Nothing big, 16-18" being the bigger ones, but there were quite a few beautiful holdover fish and two that had smaller hook jaws. Just get away from the crowds and a 100+ fish day was not a problem. Don't be afraid to get muddy and wet, the shoreline in some areas was nasty.

KidTrout
04-30-2013, 04:24 PM
I fished South Lake and it was all you wanted. Nothing big, 16-18" being the bigger ones, but there were quite a few beautiful holdover fish and two that had smaller hook jaws. Just get away from the crowds and a 100+ fish day was not a problem. Don't be afraid to get muddy and wet, the shoreline in some areas was nasty.

Yea I almost went up there. I went to intake 2 and Sabrina instead on the way home. I will probably go up there when I go next month.

cjschock
04-30-2013, 08:40 PM
I'm just jealous that I moved away for school and can't go tothe sierras for at least another year. All I have to say is that if I caught 100 fish on an opener I would be pissed because that is a lot of small stockers. I ha e fished south lake in the fall and caught 50 plus trout with nothing over 16 inches and it was fun. However, I've gone back and caught 10 fish with a few 3 plus pounders and it was great. Personally for the last 5 years I'd rather be throwing for my trophy brown which is still stuck at 4.5 pounds out ta rush creek.

retired96
04-30-2013, 09:14 PM
I fished the Upper Owens for 4 hours and it was a futile effort to catch fish,,,caught one small stocker and no one else was having much luck...Water was dirty and weeds on every cast..Compared to all the past years there were very few fishermen on the river... When I left at 1030 there were only six fishermen on the river......I did good fishing Rock Creek, catching 4 fish that were 2 1/2 pounds. Talked to numerous people that fish Rock Creek lake and all got skunked....This was my 43rd straight opener and overall the 2nd worst opener,,,, last year was the worst....

KidTrout
04-30-2013, 09:39 PM
I fished the Upper Owens for 4 hours and it was a futile effort to catch fish,,,caught one small stocker and no one else was having much luck...Water was dirty and weeds on every cast..Compared to all the past years there were very few fishermen on the river... When I left at 1030 there were only six fishermen on the river......I did good fishing Rock Creek, catching 4 fish that were 2 1/2 pounds. Talked to numerous people that fish Rock Creek lake and all got skunked....This was my 43rd straight opener and overall the 2nd worst opener,,,, last year was the worst....

At least I'm not the only one that feels that way. To hot this year in my opinion. Hopefully the weather next year will be better.

Fish Cop
05-01-2013, 08:42 AM
Joshua and Cambofisher have it right... It's not about the quantity, though no one wants to get skunked. It's about the quality of the experience. Bro, you were up the eastside! Clean air, cool vistas, and a chance to unwind in perfect places. Don't get hinked up on numbers. It's not about the destination, it's about the journey.

Matt44
05-05-2013, 12:25 AM
Forget the numbers ..those waters up the 395 hold some big brown trout I can get my rainbow fix anywhere water temp permitting. Do your homework and you can get one. Iv been after mine for awhile but I'm stuck at 4lbs which is still a nice brown! Lower twin kicked out 4 tens 2 9s and a 17 pound brown in on week. Go get em boys!

TheReelBubba
05-05-2013, 03:02 AM
it was an extremely slow opener, it isnt about numbers but when your used to an average number of fish and all of a sudden that number drops off you for sure notice it. i fished upper twin, lower twin, didnt even attempt the zoo at robinson. slow on the res but the fish we pulled out were between 2.5-4.5 lbs. i was in bridgeport from 26th-1st then hit the loop. rush was fished out so the numbers were way down but did pull a nice cuttie and a few decent browns. silver was dead unless you were fishing alger inlet. the fish you did catch were stocker dinks but still fun. fished grant nailed a 2.5 brown a 3lb brown that was by the marina. also fished grant from the rush creek inlet. only hit 1 bow. fished the private housing docks at gull. you could see tons of fish but the bite was off. they looked to be spawning and fighting in the shallows. i hooked 1 with a slammer and 1 with a mepps in an hours worth of chuckin those. i also had some meat out in the water and nothing. fished june for a few hours and got 1 bow. the weather in the loop was really nice in the daytime and night got to freezing. woke up wwith ice on my tent every day. still incredible visit to the loop just slow fishing wise. i fished bishop creek and intake 2 and did very well as far as numbers but if you werent in the shade you were on fire. just a lil insight to my opener. funner than anything could ever do at home and with all the best people on earth, my crew and everyone else i came across. except for being robbed at upper twin witch made the cover of all the local media and newspapers. check it out if ya get a chance. paul harlow grand theft, dui, loaded fire arm, drugs... we nailed that dirtbag!