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View Full Version : Mystery fish caught at Silverwood identification help needed.



ToadsToadsOnly
04-07-2013, 12:32 PM
My buddy Danny and I caught these fish at Silverwood Lake today they were foaming in the AM like a school of boiling bass on bait balls. We ended up catching them on crappie jigs sight fishing mid water column. Looks like a Chub of some sort but the fins and mouth are different than Chub pictures I see online these fish were approx 3-5lbs.

I have no clue what these are and no-one at the wood did either. The worker swore it was a carp but the tail, eyes, mouth, fins, and scales are different than carp.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/toadstoadsonly/20130406_070509.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/toadstoadsonly/20130406_083717.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/toadstoadsonly/20130406_083727.jpg

One of the major distinctive characteristics of the fish is the v shaped tail.

Similar to the Bonytail Chub

http://www.arkive.org/bonytail-chub/gila-elegans/image-G59059.html

For now I am going to call the fish a BARP half bass half carp.

Jig-Guy
04-07-2013, 12:44 PM
I have fished Silverwood for years and have never seen these fish. If they are carp their mouth should be on the bottom of their head. I will have to wait for someone else to let us know what these fish are:???:.

Ifishtoolittle
04-07-2013, 12:45 PM
It looks like a grass carp subspecies or something of that nature. In any case it's quite obvious that these guys were eating well!

casting call
04-07-2013, 12:51 PM
It looks like a grass carp subspecies or something of that nature. In any case it's quite obvious that these guys were eating well!

Id say grass carp too.. but these scales are "oval" instead of a diamond pattern, and grass carp have shorter anal fins.

DMS
04-07-2013, 02:10 PM
I think they are buffalo fish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ictiobus

cutbait
04-07-2013, 02:25 PM
Mohave tui chub?

seal
04-07-2013, 02:27 PM
Mohave tui chub?

Ding ding ding! But I thought those were close to extinction? So say the environmentalists.

bman90278
04-07-2013, 02:40 PM
So did u eat them not knowing what there were? Either way, looks like cook catches.

-b

ToadsToadsOnly
04-07-2013, 04:07 PM
I gave them to some guy on the dock I should of brought one home to dissect it.

misterBAITer
04-07-2013, 04:26 PM
I gave them to some guy on the dock I should of brought one home to dissect it.

Could it be this: Lavinia exilicauda?

http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=553
It says there have been occurrences of this fish at Silverwood.

Hardcor
04-07-2013, 05:46 PM
cutbaits right it's a Chub

cutbait
04-07-2013, 05:59 PM
cutbaits right it's a Chub
Speaking of which..

Remind me to show you my chub when we meet!

cutbait
04-07-2013, 06:00 PM
If they are Mohave tui.. pics and admission of killing them isn't wise. They are endangered

river_fish
04-07-2013, 06:21 PM
does anyone know what the water temp is running at silverwood right now? im going there Tuesday

661Bass'n
04-07-2013, 06:29 PM
Water temp today was at 57 in the morning and came up to 60 at 2pm.

river_fish
04-07-2013, 06:32 PM
Water temp today was at 57 in the morning and came up to 60 at 2pm.

Thanks man, is the largemouth bite starting to take off up there?

661Bass'n
04-07-2013, 07:35 PM
Thanks man, is the largemouth bite starting to take off up there?


river_fish, today was my first ever trip..check my report.....

carpanglerdude
04-07-2013, 08:36 PM
Great post! Very cool to see that fish, hadn't seen them come out of there before.

fishjunky18
04-07-2013, 09:30 PM
Why would you kill a fish if you don't know what it is? Obviously if you don't know the species, you wouldn't know the regulations in regards to the fish. In this day and age of cameras on everything you could've easily just taken a picture and carefully release the fish, as opposed to killing four of them. Ignorance is not an excuse sir.

ToadsToadsOnly
04-07-2013, 09:32 PM
This fish does look like some sort of chub, the million dollar question now is what kind of Chub is it since It was never discovered could I call it the ToadsToadsOnly Barp?

I also noticed that some nights I see boils on the surface that I always thought were stripers I have casted everything but the kitchen sink at these boils with no avail. Friday night I saw similar boils and waited until sunrise hoping that I could identify what was making all the commotion. At greylight I saw these fish foaming and chasing some sort of bait and flopping to the surface like some sort of panfish or bass I actually thought it looked like small mouth bass boiling. I am pretty sure these fish would of ate the fly and they actually fight pretty good.


Id say grass carp too.. but these scales are "oval" instead of a diamond pattern, and grass carp have shorter anal fins.


I think they are buffalo fish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ictiobus

Searched Buffalo fish, not buffalo fish.


Mohave tui chub?

Not Mohave Tui Chub, the tail is different, these fish have similar body structure to the Tui Chub but the tail is move of a V shape.


Ding ding ding! But I thought those were close to extinction? So say the environmentalists.

Have you ever head of anyone catching anything similar to this out of the Wood Seal, I know this is one of your normal stomping grounds.


So did u eat them not knowing what there were? Either way, looks like cook catches.

-b

No I did not eat the fish my buddy revived a couple and let them go and gave a couple to a guy that wanted to keep them on the dock. These fish are very hardy one was out of the water for about 1 1/2 hour once revived it swam back to the school.


Could it be this: Lavinia exilicauda?

http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=553

Lavina Exilicauda is a buffalo fish, definitely not one of those.

It says there have been occurrences of this fish at Silverwood.


Speaking of which..

Remind me to show you my chub when we meet!

Sorry cutbait I dont swing that way lol.


If they are Mohave tui.. pics and admission of killing them isn't wise. They are endangered

Good thing they were not a Tui.. Tui looks like the tui reach over 10'' long. I do not see anything stating that the Tui Chubs would be 3-5 lbs 20+'' length.

''The Mohave tui chub (Gila bicolor mohavensis) is in the minnow family and can reach over 10 inches in length. The Mohave tui chub was listed as an endangered species in 1970 by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The Mohave tui chub is the only fish native to the Mojave River basin in California. The arroyo chub (Gila orcutti) was introduced into the Mojave River system in the 1930s. This exotic chub successfully hybridized with the Mohave tui chub, and by 1970 the latter fish species was believed to have been eliminated by this process of introgression. A small population of genetically pure Mohave tui chub was found at a small pond (6 feet deep and 9 feet in diameter) at Soda Springs on the western bank of the dry Soda Lake (FWS 1984).

Since its rediscovery, populations have been successfully introduced to constructed ponds at Soda Lake, Camp Cady, and China Lake Naval Air Weapons Station. The total estimated population at these four areas is between 10,000 and 20,000 fish (Mohave tui chub recovery team meeting, November 1996). The Mohave tui chub is morphologically similar to the Owens tui chub (G. b. Snyderi) and the Lahontan tui chub (G. b. obesa) (FWS 1984). A genetic study, completed in September 1997, found that the Mohave tui chub is a distinct subspecies (May et al. 1997).''



Great post! Very cool to see that fish, hadn't seen them come out of there before.

Thanks

one long cast
04-07-2013, 09:50 PM
Could they be sacramento shad?????????????

ToadsToadsOnly
04-07-2013, 10:03 PM
Could they be sacramento shad?????????????

Not a Sacramento Shad they are almost crome looking.

It actually looks more similar to a Lake Whitefish than a chub that are from Alaska and Canada but the upper fins are different.

http://fish.photoshelter.com/image/I0000J_inEt9R81k

This is killing me not knowing what they are this is crazy, one awesome thing that happen is while by buddy Danny was reeling one in a 7-8lb bass was chasing it around and tried to chomp on the fishes head lol but the fish was way too big. Who wants to make me a Barp swimbait? I guarantee the bass and stripers will smash it.

casting call
04-07-2013, 10:16 PM
I think Lake whitefish it is!

http://fishhound.fishhound.netdna-cdn.com/sites/default/files/styles/node_image/public/fish_species/lake%20whitefish_0.jpeg

Hoot951
04-07-2013, 10:17 PM
I agree with DMS its a Buffalo Fish.

DMS
04-07-2013, 10:20 PM
There are several kinds of buffalo. Maybe a smallmouth buffalo. I don't think I want to eat them and they are defiantly a rough fish.

ToadsToadsOnly
04-07-2013, 10:41 PM
Could it be this: Lavinia exilicauda?

http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=553
It says there have been occurrences of this fish at Silverwood.

Sorry I re searched Lavina Exilicauda and it does look just like one misterBaiter, this indeed is the fish we caught AKA Hitch. But..... Online sources say it only grows to be 36 centimiters long. UGhhhh.... Back to the drawing board.

Tubbytuba
04-08-2013, 12:46 AM
looks almost like some sort of European fish, maybe a roach???

maki909
04-08-2013, 01:05 AM
Sorry I re searched Lavina Exilicauda and it does look just like one misterBaiter, this indeed is the fish we caught AKA Hitch. But..... Online sources say it only grows to be 36 centimiters long. UGhhhh.... Back to the drawing board.i can tell you for a fact that hitch grow bigger than that. Ask anyone who fishes clear lake. they get huge up there.

CL SmooV
04-08-2013, 01:10 AM
Looks like a male chub got freaky with a female largemouth. The tail of this fish is peculiar. But maybe the tails looks/grows different than river chub. Perhaps because its in a reservoir.

Nonetheless it's a helluva catch. Grats!

maki909
04-08-2013, 01:16 AM
im gonna have to go with really fat hitch.
http://calfish.ucdavis.edu/species/?uid=38&ds=241

bigminnowfisher
04-08-2013, 01:23 AM
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/toadstoadsonly/20130406_083727.jpg


http://kern.audubon.org/images/fish/hitch_Reyes.gif

I am fairly certain you have rather large specimens of hitch (Lavinia exilicauda). As you noted, the peculiarly shaped and sized caudal fin coupled with the upwards pointing terminal mouth and anal fin proportion really offers a positive identification. Interesting what species can travel through the aquaduct, isn't it?

I will have to agree with others, you should never kill or keep species that you cannot identify. When you first killed the fish, did you know whether they were Sacramento splittails, Tui chubs, Arroyo chubs, or California roach? These rough fish species aren't commonly identified by sportfishers, and the awareness needs to be made that despite the lack of sportfishing status, many species of Californian roughfish are protected. It's important that fishermen do not contribute to their diminished population.

Additionally, I highly doubt whether any fish without a labyrinth organ could survive for over an hour out of water. While the fish may have swam away, it does not mean anything in terms of long term survival. I would recommend if you intend on releasing any fish, to NOT allow it to sit out of the water for over an hour. It just makes no sense.

seal
04-08-2013, 08:33 AM
Yes I have caught them before, on the fly in Cleghorn. I do not know for sure the species, the tui chub made sense to me but I got no idea!

I would agree keeping fish of an unknown species is not a good idea, but I don't think he hurt the population much and basically nobody is targeting them and they probably taste like complete crap (or carp) so doubt the population is in much danger, unless of course ToadsToadsOnly frequents the lake often:Big Grin:.

Reading more on the tui chub there has been a hybrid of the tui and arroyo chub found at the Mohave Forks dam but really that hitch looks like a pretty good match. Soooooooo many species in Silverwood that many have never seen, special place!

Hardcor
04-08-2013, 09:32 AM
Speaking of which..

Remind me to show you my chub when we meet!

That little chub you keep hidden away, No thank"s

Hardcor
04-08-2013, 09:39 AM
I showed it to Greg Silks he said Hitch no dought !

BIG RED
04-08-2013, 09:44 AM
It's a freshwater queen fish.

Skyler
04-08-2013, 04:47 PM
Midshipman.

bigminnowfisher
04-08-2013, 06:18 PM
I would agree keeping fish of an unknown species is not a good idea, but I don't think he hurt the population much and basically nobody is targeting them and they probably taste like complete crap (or carp) so doubt the population is in much danger, unless of course ToadsToadsOnly frequents the lake often:Big Grin:.

I agree that he definitely didn't do any harm, and I don't mean to come off as judgmental nor derogatory. I just meant to remind anglers that many times not being able to identify a fish means you won't know it's protection status, nor bag limits, nor size limits, so it's always best to release the fish quickly and ensure they survive, just in case. Who knows, next time it may be a Razorback Sucker that someone accidentally catches, and every single fish is important to maintain that species right now.

GhettoBasster
04-08-2013, 06:18 PM
Midshipman.

Always a midshipman!!:LOL:

DockRat
04-08-2013, 06:27 PM
Always a midshipman!!:LOL:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z94/ScooterTrash_album/midshipman.jpg

Voice-of-Reason
04-08-2013, 06:30 PM
100% hitch. There used to be a crapload of them in Quail Lake too. That was when the Quail stripers were huge and plentiful. They gorged on the hitch. Nice to see them in Silverwood. Let em multiply so that record striper that I think Silverwood of all the local lakes holds can gorge on them.

red bars
04-08-2013, 08:30 PM
Hi all I posted this pic before..but this truck was pulled from the aqueduct in hesperia a f40095ew months back..kinda looks like the same fish

adoan1976
04-08-2013, 10:49 PM
http://www.rytonanddistrictanglingclub.co.uk/tilcon-fish-records.html

Take a peek at the attached link. Perhaps it may help.

BabyKiller
04-09-2013, 09:10 PM
Hey Jonathon!
I caught those fish a few years back and there was a debate thread back then. I too was busting them on mini jigs, 1/64th size.
WE should fish again sometime. I actually hit manhattan beach with Jerry last sunday.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k89/phatsk8r2/DSCI0060.jpg

river_fish
04-09-2013, 09:22 PM
an angler also caught a snake head in silverwood during the 90s

panfishman
04-11-2013, 01:05 PM
those are golden shiners

stocker
04-12-2013, 08:14 PM
I dunno what they are, I would ask a local freshwater marine biologist. I caught one once on a fly tubing the 'wood circa 2009.

RTG
04-12-2013, 08:40 PM
Sacramento Blackfish.