Nfl scab refs...

[HawgStalker]

These GIANT piles of **** the NFL have put on the field to officiate are a JOKE!!!!! They have cost more than one team a victory and players are also gettin hurt!!! It's embarassing and the product of Football is taking a serious hit! That piece of **** Goodell preaches about protecting the NFL shield and puts these PILES on the field!!! HE needs to get FIRED and people need to start boycotting games or this isn't going to change! Goodell has to much power and must be dealt with!!!!

[Justme]

worse officiating ever, they even reviewed it and call was upheld?!?!?!? total bull crap in my opinion....pete carroll should be ashamed to even take that kind of win.....:Rain::Rain:

[crashdavis13]

It was a horrible call, but you can't blame the refs! It's not their fault they are not trained as much as the regular refs and that the NFL is being lame in their labor talks. The NFL is to blame here!!!!

[CL SmooV]

If Roger wishes to retain the grain of salt amount of respect he has left, he will give veteran refs anything they want for their return by noon tomorrow.

[CL SmooV]

It was a horrible call, but you can't blame the refs! It's not their fault they are not trained as much as the regular refs and that the NFL is being lame in their labor talks. The NFL is to blame here!!!!

It's both the nfl's fault and that senile ref who called a TD. the ref who signaled touchback should get a full time gig in the nfl.

[cutbait]

Unlike you guys, Im going to wait to till tomorrow to hear from the real refs if that one hand of tates on the ball intially gives him right to simultaneous possesion till he wraps his other hand on it before they hit the ground.

Because Tates one hand was simultaneous with Jennings

[CL SmooV]

Unlike you guys, Im going to wait to till tomorrow to hear from the real refs if that one hand of tates on the ball intially gives him right to simultaneous possesion till he wraps his other hand on it before they hit the ground.

Because Tates one hand was simultaneous with Jennings

Hey Cut--- those refs tomorrow will tell you that in the event a simultaneous catch occurs the ball goes to the player who has majority of the rock in their possession. Which was obviously the cheese head defender. Great effort by Tate, poor call by that back judge.

[cutbait]

Hey Cut--- those refs tomorrow will tell you that in the event a simultaneous catch occurs the ball goes to the player who has majority of the rock in their possession. Which was obviously the cheese head defender. Great effort by Tate, poor call by that back judge.

If you say so Smoov...

[HawgStalker]

If you say so Smoov...
Smoov is right cutbait.... The simultaneous posession only goes to offense if the defender didn't establish control which he clearly does by clutching the ball to his chest with both hands. Not to mention there was clear offensive PI by Tate pushing Shields to the ground before the ball even got there! Most obvious PI I've ever seen....

[HawgStalker]

worse officiating ever, they even reviewed it and call was upheld?!?!?!? total bull crap in my opinion....pete carroll should be ashamed to even take that kind of win.....:Rain::Rain:
I agree.... Totally classless the way Carroll celebrated that win!

[cutbait]

Smoov is right cutbait.... The simultaneous posession only goes to offense if the defender didn't establish control which he clearly does by clutching the ball to his chest with both hands. Not to mention there was clear offensive PI by Tate pushing Shields to the ground before the ball even got there! Most obvious PI I've ever seen....

By meaning clutching the ball to his chest with Tates hand between the two then yes your right.

I saw Tates left hand simultaneous with Jennings two hands touch the ballas they fell to the ground Tate wrapped the ball up with the other hand as Jennings pulled to his chest with Tates arm between.

Question is does the single hand give him possesion? One handed catches happen every game

[cutbait]

Hey Cut--- those refs tomorrow will tell you that in the event a simultaneous catch occurs the ball goes to the player who has majority of the rock in their possession. Which was obviously the cheese head defender. Great effort by Tate, poor call by that back judge.

That's not accurate

[HawgStalker]

By meaning clutching the ball to his chest with Tates hand between the two then yes your right.

I saw Tates left hand simultaneous with Jennings two hands touch the ballas they fell to the ground Tate wrapped the ball up with the other hand as Jennings pulled to his chest with Tates arm between.

Question is does the single hand give him possesion? One handed catches happen every game
One hand does not give a player possesion when the defender or offender is in-between that plaver and the ball with two hands on the ball and the ball clutched to his chest! You're right, one handed catches do happen quite often but possesion is never in question in those cases.....

[HawgStalker]

I'm a HUGE football fan and used to be a season ticket holder. If I was still a season ticket holder I would be FURIOUS.... Yeah I'm a Packer fan so I maybe a little more upset than the next guy but just look at the response from other players around the league on twitter! This is an utter and complete JOKE! NFL refs would get that call correct EVERYTIME!!!

[cutbait]

One hand does not give a player possesion when the defender or offender is in-between that plaver and the ball with two hands on the ball and the ball clutched to his chest! You're right, one handed catches do happen quite often but possesion is never in question in those cases.....

If you can prove one hand doesn't mean possesion then I will agree interception...

Im not saying there isn't a rule that states such, but your just arguing with what you think about possesion.

State the rule defining possesion, not what you think it is.

By the way, Im not saying it was or wasn't an interception but I can totally see some validity to the simultaneous catch... If the single hand is valid possesion.....

[cutbait]

I'm a HUGE football fan and used to be a season ticket holder. If I was still a season ticket holder I would be FURIOUS.... Yeah I'm a Packer fan so I maybe a little more upset than the next guy but just look at the response from other players around the league on twitter! This is an utter and complete JOKE! NFL refs would get that call correct EVERYTIME!!!

I disagree, you give the real refs far too much credit. That play was one of the toughest in NFL history and to claim they would of nailed it is insanely giving the real refs too much cred...

They get calls wrong all the time and you know that

[crashdavis13]

Hey Cut--- those refs tomorrow will tell you that in the event a simultaneous catch occurs the ball goes to the player who has majority of the rock in their possession. Which was obviously the cheese head defender. Great effort by Tate, poor call by that back judge.

In the event of a simultaneous catch, the ball does not go to the person who has majority of the rock. A tie goes to the receiver. It's simular to baseball where the tie goes to the runner. In this case, was it really a simultaneous catch? I agree that one hand is not considered possession when the defender has two hands on the ball. This should have been an interception.

These calls only hurt the individual teams involved and not the NFL. Until it does, the NFL is not going to make an effort to get the veteran refs back on the field. The only thing that will hurt the NFL is us not watching the games on TV and sitting in the stands. I don't see that happening but will surely put an end to this all!

[CL SmooV]

That's not accurate

Oh no, I'm dead on. In fact, a veteran ref reaffirmed my point last night after the game. Check this link out, it states the rule. It also has a vid. Check out how Tate has one hand on the ball to the cheese heads two hands. It accurately shows it was intercepted first.

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2012/09/what-nfl-rule-about-simultaneous-catch

[cutbait]

I will still add and arguement to this thread.

Is it the NFLs fault 100% that the officials are on strike?

We know not the demands nor the comprimises on each side?

One must not assume the league is at fault entirely

[CL SmooV]

In the event of a simultaneous catch, the ball does not go to the person who has majority of the rock. A tie goes to the receiver. It's simular to baseball where the tie goes to the runner. In this case, was it really a simultaneous catch? I agree that one hand is not considered possession when the defender has two hands on the ball. This should have been an interception.

These calls only hurt the individual teams involved and not the NFL. Until it does, the NFL is not going to make an effort to get the veteran refs back on the field. The only thing that will hurt the NFL is us not watching the games on TV and sitting in the stands. I don't see that happening but will surely put an end to this all!

Not so, touchdowns and interceptions are given to players who have "majority" or both hands on the ball after a catch. At times you see a defender or a receiver with one hand on the ball after a catch, followed by that same player clutching or attempting to gain both hands on the ball-- like Tate did after his one hand initial connection to the ball. We never see a ref awarding this a touchdown or an interception after majority of the ball has been received-- until last night, hence the outrage by the entire nfl world

This call was easy to make--- interception.

Oh, to answer your Q-- it was not a simultaneous catch. Close but no. The proof--Tate's good attempt and effort to get his right hand on the rock that was being held by both hands by the cheese head.

[cutbait]

Oh no, I'm dead on. In fact, a veteran ref reaffirmed my point last night after the game. Check this link out, it states the rule. It also has a vid. Check out how Tate has one hand n the ball to the chess heads two hands. It accurately shows it was intercepted first.

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2012/09/what-nfl-rule-about-simultaneous-catch

It may be in this case but you worded it has Majority of the rock, which isn't accurate in simultaneous catch

[cutbait]

Not so, touchdowns and interceptions are given to players who have "majority" or both hands on the ball after a catch. At times you see a defender or a receiver with one hand on the ball after a catch, followed by that same player clutching or attempting to gain both hands on the ball-- like Tate did after his one hand initial connection to the ball.

This call was easy to make--- interception.

Again, qoute rules, not what you think

[HawgStalker]

cutbait Im not going to argue with you anymore.... You're just looking for an argument man. Turn on ESPN and get the answer for yourself! It was **** call and everybody in the country knows it except you and the Seachickens!!!!

[crashdavis13]

Not so, touchdowns and interceptions are given to players who have "majority" or both hands on the ball after a catch. At times you see a defender or a receiver with one hand on the ball after a catch, followed by that same player clutching or attempting to gain both hands on the ball-- like Tate did after his one hand initial connection to the ball.

This call was easy to make--- interception.

I agree with you that this was an interception but becuase it was not a simultaneous catch. A simultaneous catch happens when both players obtain possession at the same time. Tate never obtained possession because he only had one hand on the ball until they hit the ground at which point it should have been ruled a touchback. That rule does not state anything about who has majority. Overall we are agree.

[fish-hound]

Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball

didn't look like it was a simultaneous catch based on the rulebook explanation

[HawgStalker]

I disagree, you give the real refs far too much credit. That play was one of the toughest in NFL history and to claim they would of nailed it is insanely giving the real refs too much cred...

They get calls wrong all the time and you know that
WRONG!!!! Not a tough call at all.... Just turn on ESPN and they will put the rule up so you can read for yourself!!!!

[HawgStalker]

Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball

didn't look like it was a simultaneous catch based on the rulebook explanation
BINGO!!!!! There you go cutbait.... I will agree that they do muff calls but that call was not HARD to make!

[crashdavis13]

Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball

didn't look like it was a simultaneous catch based on the rulebook explanation

I agree, one handed catches happen often but not when a defender has two hands on the ball. Its not possible to get that good of a grip on the ball.

[CL SmooV]

Again, qoute rules, not what you think

Again, the rule was "quoted" for everyone on the prior page (by me). Think you missed it.

And my thinking on this easy non-call was derived from facts learned in pop Warner FB back in the 80's.

This is truly a no brainier

[crashdavis13]

I will still add and arguement to this thread.

Is it the NFLs fault 100% that the officials are on strike?

We know not the demands nor the comprimises on each side?

One must not assume the league is at fault entirely


This is a valid statement and I agree but the NFL needs to make something happen before they loose fan support.

I don't think the replacement refs should be getting the amount of crap that they are getting for these calls though. They have not worked a game this fast nor with these rules. These guys are doing the best they can. Its easy to ref a game from a bar or your couch, but not in front of millions. Look at it this way, if they didn't step up to help out the NFL, we wouldn't be watching football right now!

The veteran refs missed and blew calls all the time too, but they make the game look easy and ussually get the important calls correctly.

[cutbait]

BINGO!!!!! There you go cutbait.... I will agree that they do muff calls but that call was not HARD to make! again that proves my point.

Try being objective for a change cheese boy?

Jennings grasped the ball and never "muffed" it. Fact

Tate had simultaneous left hand on the ball and never "muffed" it.. Fact

The only arguement is if that one hand qaulifies as posseion?

Wneres the rule that one hand does not? Majority of the rock is irrelevant!

Take off the homer shirt and as far as ESPN goes... experts aren't they? Psssh.. not one rule qouted

[cutbait]

Again, the rule was "quoted" for everyone on the prior page (by me). Think you missed it.

And my thinking on this easy non-call was derived from facts learned in pop Warner FB back in the 80's.

This is truly a no brainier

Where is the majority of the rock rule? I missed it?

[HawgStalker]

This is a valid statement and I agree but the NFL needs to make something happen before they loose fan support.

I don't think the replacement refs should be getting the amount of crap that they are getting for these calls though. They have not worked a game this fast nor with these rules. These guys are doing the best they can. Its easy to ref a game from a bar or your couch, but not in front of millions. Look at it this way, if they didn't step up to help out the NFL, we wouldn't be watching football right now!

The veteran refs missed and blew calls all the time too, but they make the game look easy and ussually get the important calls correctly.

I agree that they were not ready for the speed of the game and that it's the owners and NFL's fault! That being said' maybe they should stop the season if it's putting the integrity of this wonderful game at risk!!!

[crashdavis13]

I agree that they were not ready for the speed of the game and that it's the owners and NFL's fault! That being said' maybe they should stop the season if it's putting the integrity of this wonderful game at risk!!!

We all know thats not going to happen even though its a valid point. The NFL is a business, all they care about is the money. If these calls do not hurt their sales, it doesn't matter. The Owners need to keep complaining to the league about this.

[HawgStalker]

again that proves my point.

Try being objective for a change cheese boy?

Jennings grasped the ball and never "muffed" it. Fact

Tate had simultaneous left hand on the ball and never "muffed" it.. Fact

The only arguement is if that one hand qaulifies as posseion?

Wneres the rule that one hand does not? Majority of the rock is irrelevant!

Take off the homer shirt and as far as ESPN goes... experts aren't they? Psssh.. not one rule qouted

cheeseboy..... LOL!!!! You're a JOKE too.... Everybody is stating the rule and you just keep spouting off at the mouth!!!! Like I said, you're arguing just to argue!

[seal]

Because one hand is "touching" the ball that means he has possession? WTF Cutbait so all you have to do is basically have your one hand on the ball as you come down and continue to have one hand on the ball eventhough the defender has complete possession to have it called a reception? Man are you a lawyer dude cause that sounds like some Johnny Cochrain crap to me!

I have many friends up in Seattle, everyone I've heard from agree this was a blown call, you seem to be on an island by yourself on this one Cutbait.

[cutbait]

Calm down fellas..

Im not saying it was not an interception.

I am arguing just to argue! Its called debate!

Get over the thought of someone asking a legit question you disagree with as pointless.....

Way too much emotion here fellas

[HawgStalker]

We all know thats not going to happen even though its a valid point. The NFL is a business, all they care about is the money. If these calls do not hurt their sales, it doesn't matter. The Owners need to keep complaining to the league about this.
That's the problem bro.... Goodell works for the owners! We as fans do need to quit going to games and watching games on TV but it wont happen because this game is the most popular in the country! As furious as I am it would be tough as hell not to watch.....

[cutbait]

Because one hand is "touching" the ball that means he has possession? WTF Cutbait so all you have to do is basically have your one hand on the ball as you come down and continue to have one hand on the ball eventhough the defender has complete possession to have it called a reception? Man are you a lawyer dude cause that sounds like some Johnny Cochrain crap to me!

I have many friends up in Seattle, everyone I've heard from agree this was a blown call, you seem to be on an island by yourself on this one Cutbait.

QB's throw with one hand? Do they have possesion as they hurl the ball down the field?

[seal]

Calm down fellas..

Im not saying it was not an interception.

I am arguing just to argue! Its called debate!

Get over the thought of someone asking a legit question you disagree with as pointless.....

Way too much emotion here fellas

Green Bay fan for life (family connections to Wisconsin), if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your team saddled with the loss maybe you could understand the passion. Basically at this point Green Bay's season might be over, it's just not the loss it's what may be done to the psyche of the team, hard to come back after you get hit with a loss like that.

[HawgStalker]

Calm down fellas..

Im not saying it was not an interception.

I am arguing just to argue! Its called debate!

Get over the thought of someone asking a legit question you disagree with as pointless.....

Way too much emotion here fellas
Argue, debate call it what you want! I responded to your question on the first page in a legitimate way and you keep arguing ooops... debating the same question over and over! Nobody has to prove anything to you, it's stated in the rule!

[seal]

QB's throw with one hand? Do they have possesion as they hurl the ball down the field?

Ok Johnny you win!

[crashdavis13]

QB's throw with one hand? Do they have possesion as they hurl the ball down the field?

We all know your great at playing "devils advocate" here! But it is impossible to get control of the ball, which is needed to have possession, when the defender has TWO hands on the ball and the receiver only has one. If the QB throwing the ball had a defender grab the ball with two hands, he wouldn't be able to throw the ball and would lose it right?

[HawgStalker]

Green Bay fan for life (family connections to Wisconsin), if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your team saddled with the loss maybe you could understand the passion. Basically at this point Green Bay's season might be over, it's just not the loss it's what may be done to the psyche of the team, hard to come back after you get hit with a loss like that.
Exactly! I hate the Patriots but even I agree that Belichik deserved an explanation why that call the other night wasn't reviewed! Being objective is not a factor when the call is blatantly blown! Now the Seahawks have that tie-breaker and it's totally tainted!!!

[cutbait]

Ok Im leaving at thissince the majority of you can't handle debate.

Does one hand qualify as possesion or not? That was my one and only question about the play....

To my knowledge there is no rule that clarifies possesion by number of hands on the ball and you all can't find one obviously.

Now while I acknowledge majority control of the ball was to Jennings, the simultaneous touch with the left hand did happen....

[cutbait]

For the record, Im a Bronco fan

[City Dad]

As a 'Hawks fan I'll view every single blown call that goes Seattle's way from now until Jubilee as justification for the BS officiating of Super Bowl XL... but it's cold comfort. These guys really do suck.

[seal]

For the record, Im a Bronco fan

No wonder your so bitter:LOL:! Really wanted to see Peyton make a good comeback this year. Hope it doesn't turn into a Favre deal and he stays around too long and taints his legacy.

[seal]

As a 'Hawks fan I'll view every single blown call that goes Seattle's way from now until Jubilee as justification for the BS officiating of Super Bowl XL... but it's cold comfort. These guys really do suck.

That's funny all the communication I've seen come from friends and family up there refer to that Super Bowl as justification for this call!

[cutbait]

As a 'Hawks fan I'll view every single blown call that goes Seattle's way from now until Jubilee as justification for the BS officiating of Super Bowl XL... but it's cold comfort. These guys really do suck.

Not the first time I heard this in the past 12 hrs

[cutbait]

No wonder your so bitter:LOL:! Really wanted to see Peyton make a good comeback this year. Hope it doesn't turn into a Favre deal and he stays around too long and taints his legacy.

Gotta agree,,,, Peyton is suspect IMO.

Lots a wobbly passes

[5150fishn]

As much as I hate the Packers it looked like a bad call to me but I will not pretend that I know the rules well enough to say with certain if this was the right or wrong call. These replacement refs are making some bad calls and this needs to be resolved quickly. Go Niners!

[Danny300]

I would like to thank the refs. for helping me with my fantasy last night!!! TOUCHDOWN G.T. for the win!!! a packer loss was just a bonus!!!

[seal]

I would like to thank the refs. for helping me with my fantasy last night!!! TOUCHDOWN G.T. for the win!!! a packer loss was just a bonus!!!

You had a fantasy about the refs.? TMI Danny.

[City Dad]

That's funny all the communication I've seen come from friends and family up there refer to that Super Bowl as justification for this call!

Saying Ben Rothlesburger to a Seahawk fan is like saying Bucky F-ing Dent to a Redsox fan (prior to 2004.) That's a pain that just doesn't go away.

[HawgStalker]

For the record, Im a Bronco fan

That explains it! Hee-Haw Hee-Haw... Lol!!!

[City Dad]

The best part about this whole thing is the picture of two refs standing side by side in the endzone, one signaling touchdown, one signaling no reception. That's gold!

Also, if the same call would have been made against, say, the Jaguars and not the Packers, it wouldn't be getting near as much play. But on Monday Night, with a marquee team, this relatively inconsequential call (Packers will still make the playoffs, Seattle will still be e lucky to land a wildcard) it's gonna go down in lore like the "Hand of God" goal.

This not to say that the replacement refs don't suck... they surly do. I'm just sayin' the utter outrage is sorta funny - like someone took a dump in a cherished Tiffany vase.

[Danny300]

You had a fantasy about the refs.? TMI Danny.

I'd have a fantasies about you to if you'd score points in my league hahaha

[HawgStalker]

New NFL rule.... You can catch the ball by catching the guy who caught the ball! Lol

[Cadillyak]

I am a bears fan so every packer loss is a win for me.:Smile: However, I hate to see any team lose like that.

[CL SmooV]

Oooook---- So, I get back home from the office today, turn on espn, I see footage from last nights debacle that wasnt shown yesterday, or even this morning.

...and I stand corrected-- it APPEARS to be a silumltaneous catch. A better camera angle shows tate did in fact get both hands on the rock in the air. refs may in fact got it right. as for the PI-- they failed horribly.

[cutbait]

Oooook---- So, I get back home from the office today, turn on espn, I see footage from last nights debacle that wasnt shown yesterday, or even this morning.

...and I stand corrected-- it APPEARS to be a silumltaneous catch. A better camera angle shows tate did in fact get both hands on the rock in the air. refs may in fact got it right. as for the PI-- they failed horribly.


PI was obscene

[HawgStalker]

I heard the situation has got the NFL and refs negotiating again....

Fingers crossed they get this resolved ASAP!

[HawgStalker]

Just saw on NFL network they are very close to a deal....

Refs could be back at work by Sunday.... Sweet!!!

[cutbait]

Just saw on NFL network they are very close to a deal....

Refs could be back at work by Saturday.... Sweet!!!

Hate to bursts bubbles again, but if they are not active by Thursday night it will not be until next week they can start.

You cannot have the scabs do Thursday game and regs this Sunday and Mondays

It will be Thurs night or next Thursday game

[HawgStalker]

Hate to bursts bubbles again, but if they are not active by Thursday night it will not be until next week they can start.

You cannot have the scabs do Thursday game and regs this Sunday and Mondays

It will be Thurs night or next Thursday game
No bubbles bursted... I've heard nothing about them not working sunday if they don't work thursday but I'm just glad they're close to ending the lockout! Need the pro refs back either way.... badly!

[5150fishn]

Lock out over! Let's get back to some quality football!

[HawgStalker]

SWEEEEET!!! Just saw it this morning... Refs to be back tonight!!!

I agree 5150, lets get back to watching less of the refs and more football! Woohoo

[ushone]

just saw this thread and saw the "causing injuries" bs, when have the refs ever stopped injury from happening, they make the call AFTER the play...scab or not.

[HawgStalker]

The players were taking complete advantage of the scab refs because the game was to fast for them and the players knew it! They were missing cheap shots constantly.... Not to mention after the plays were over, all of the fighting and other stuff the pro refs would stop and or flag immediately....

Everyone knows players get hurt in football, it's a collision sport!
That's kind of obvious.....