So Cal Steelhead?

[Tubbytuba]

i heard some rumors a few months ago that suggested that some of the creeks in socal have some residual runs of a few steelhead. im not trying to sound hopeful just curious if any one else has heard anything. i know that every once in a while people catch a 20 incher off our coasts, last one i heard of was off new port from the pier. if there are creeks north of LA that have year round flows to the ocean it's possible... just spit ballin here...

[bman90278]

There are still very small #'s of Steelhead in So Cal...I believe the majority of them are up in Ventura & Santa Barbara area's though.

-b

[DEVOREFLYER]

There was a creek in Malibu and another one in So Orange County 20+ years ago that Steelheads werefound in. I don't know if that holds true today.

[shinbob]

A lot of streams that connect directly to the ocean are closed to fishing all year, especially for trout and salmonids. Search the regs for "anadromous waters".

[Tubbytuba]

A lot of streams that connect directly to the ocean are closed to fishing all year, especially for trout and salmonids. Search the regs for "anadromous waters".
oh yeah i figured that before i posted the question. i wasnt hoping to fish Malibu creek haha. i remember my gramps talking about pulling steelies out of local waters and all. kinda sad isnt it. do they protect them like salmon now?

[Marley]

Yes, there are steelhead in so cal. Mostly small, although really big ones are seen almost every year. Several creeks are "managed" to let them enter and spawn. Several years ago one very large wildfire burned into the back country watershed of a southern creek that held a population of steelhead. Subsequent heavy rains filled the creek with ash and mud, killing everything in it. It would make sense that adult fish, in the sea-run part of their lives at the time of the flood, have since returned to that area to spawn, but I haven't seen any reports of that happening.
There are those who fish for them, and they aren't saying much.:Wink:

[andrew95]

Yep, one has even been caught in the LA River apparently.

Picture is from the article below.

http://fishwithjd.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/JD-LA-River-Steelie.jpg

http://www.fishwithjd.com/2009/04/01/los-angeles-river-steelheading/

[bman90278]

Yep, one has even been caught in the LA River apparently.

Picture is from the article below.

http://fishwithjd.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/JD-LA-River-Steelie.jpg

http://www.fishwithjd.com/2009/04/01/los-angeles-river-steelheading/

I guess u didn't notice that article was a past April Fools Article???

On a serious note, I did see two smaller Steelies swimming in an urban LA area which I thought was amazing.

-b

[bman90278]

Yes, there are steelhead in so cal. Mostly small, although really big ones are seen almost every year. Several creeks are "managed" to let them enter and spawn. Several years ago one very large wildfire burned into the back country watershed of a southern creek that held a population of steelhead. Subsequent heavy rains filled the creek with ash and mud, killing everything in it. It would make sense that adult fish, in the sea-run part of their lives at the time of the flood, have since returned to that area to spawn, but I haven't seen any reports of that happening.
There are those who fish for them, and they aren't saying much.:Wink:

3 to 4 years ago Malibu creek had approx 3000 Steelheads, but they keep having die offs.

[cjschock]

I use to hike that spot that Marley is talking about. I have seen some decent sized steel head for being where it is back there. A buddy of mine who showed me the spot for the first time use to hike a rod back there and do a little c and r on em. The last time I went up before the fire and mudslide, my buddy and I marked a spot where we found about 10 in a nice little hole. We figured we would take the fly rods up there but unfortunately we never got the chance. I have hiked it a few times since and have not seen any fish. Just holes that use to be 8-10 feet deep that are now 3 feet.

[Sebastian323]

Yep, one has even been caught in the LA River apparently.

Picture is from the article below.

http://fishwithjd.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/JD-LA-River-Steelie.jpg

http://www.fishwithjd.com/2009/04/01/los-angeles-river-steelheading/

Thats quite a photoshop there...

[fishfinder]

in the early 80's malibu creek would have tons of them, but because there was no internet no one really knew about it. I have seen some very large fish come out of there back then. it was legal back then.

[Fish Dog]

Didn't we have a post on here a couple years back where some ding-dong up around Ventura caught one in a closed area of some river and posted a picture? Then, a few days later in the thread a warden posted a picture from the same exact spot (you could tell because all the tule reeds were the same in both pictures) saying he'd busted the poacher?

[Tubbytuba]

Didn't we have a post on here a couple years back where some ding-dong up around Ventura caught one in a closed area of some river and posted a picture? Then, a few days later in the thread a warden posted a picture from the same exact spot (you could tell because all the tule reeds were the same in both pictures) saying he'd busted the poacher? now thats funny i dont care who you are. there's a difference between catching one on accident surf fishing and finding their reds and swinging a fly over them. they are barely hanging on as it is.

[fshnritchey]

i heard some rumors a few months ago that suggested that some of the creeks in socal have some residual runs of a few steelhead. im not trying to sound hopeful just curious if any one else has heard anything. i know that every once in a while people catch a 20 incher off our coasts, last one i heard of was off new port from the pier. if there are creeks north of LA that have year round flows to the ocean it's possible... just spit ballin here...

Yes there are definitely steelhead in many different creeks in So.Cal. Obviously they have to have free running water from the creek to the ocean. Where there are dams many times steel head will stack at the bottom of the dam. Fishing in these areas are restricted. I have been targeting steelhead here for over 30 years. They are very cyclical and it is hard to predict a strong run. They also don't necessarily come back to their stream of origin and will use other streams that are in good shape. My largest is 22 " but I have seen fish to 28". There are not too many places left for these rare fish but they seem to have an ability to recuperate strong from the point of near decimation, so hopefully the few remaining habitats for them will be protected or rehabilitated.

[Skyler]

Didn't we have a post on here a couple years back where some ding-dong up around Ventura caught one in a closed area of some river and posted a picture? Then, a few days later in the thread a warden posted a picture from the same exact spot (you could tell because all the tule reeds were the same in both pictures) saying he'd busted the poacher?

Yep. He was fishing in a closed area on the lower San Ynez. Got one hell of a fine.

[flyhigh123]

Damn that article. I read the whole damn thing and was already planning on checking it out until i got to the end and read that telephone number....

[Marley]

Thats quite a photoshop there...

Some talent to be sure. I'd seen those pictures somewhere before... Pacific Coast Sportfishing maybe?... but didn't really make it until the guy in the drift boat casting into an inch of water. Fun stuff!

[Marley]

Yep. He was fishing in a closed area on the lower San Ynez. Got one hell of a fine.


Good. Wild trout and steelhead is my C&R soap box. No good reason to kill them in any water within 200 miles of OC, few (but some really good) reasons (brookies) to do so elsewhere.

[DEVOREFLYER]

QUOTE=Marley;628029]Good. Wild trout and steelhead is my C&R soap box. No good reason to kill them in any water within 200 miles of OC, few (but some really good) reasons (brookies) to do so elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

:Thumbs Up:

[Skyler]

Good. Wild trout and steelhead is my C&R soap box. No good reason to kill them in any water within 200 miles of OC, few (but some really good) reasons (brookies) to do so elsewhere.

He released the fish, BTW. It is a little messed up that DFG closed that run, yet allows Cachuma dam to remain intact, thus negating any spawning efforts by the steelhead anyway. I would say a fish ladder is in order. But we all know DFG is not exactly well versed in proper wildlife management. Pretty good at arbitrary tickets though. If you remember the thread, they spent days finding the exact location the pic was taken, when the angler had already admitted to the crime (which was not intentional). Our tax dollars at work...

[RTG]

He released the fish, BTW. It is a little messed up that DFG closed that run, yet allows Cachuma dam to remain intact, thus negating any spawning efforts by the steelhead anyway. I would say a fish ladder is in order. But we all know DFG is not exactly well versed in proper wildlife management. Pretty good at arbitrary tickets though. If you remember the thread, they spent days finding the exact location the pic was taken, when the angler had already admitted to the crime (which was not intentional). Our tax dollars at work...

Normally you're a pretty knowledgeable guy, and provide some good information. So why this drivel? I guess the professional biologists and wildlife managers with their degrees are clueless? When are you applying for the job? Hey, I know they're not perfect, but who is? If you have all the answers how to manage the state's diverse wildlife then by all means, jump in.

[Viejo]

Hey great thread! We've listed pretty much all the waters in SOCAL that could or do hold Steelhead. Just a matter of time before some one posts their "Steelhead slayage" pics and post. :Smile:

[Marley]

Hey great thread! We've listed pretty much all the waters in SOCAL that could or do hold Steelhead. Just a matter of time before some one posts their "Steelhead slayage" pics and post. :Smile:

I don't think there's much to worry about. It's like posting up pictures of big brook trout and saying that Kirman is starting to go off and "usually does for three weeks straight, so you'd better get up there and get yours before they're thinned out!" The vast majority of those reading an article like that wouldn't have a clue where Lake Carmen is, half those who found it on a map would never try to find it on the road and of those who did, 90% wouldn't make it to the lake, if they even started out down the trail. And the handful that did make it, still have to get them to bite.
So Cal steelhead, what are left of them, likely don't have to worry about anglers killing them off.

[Skyler]

Normally you're a pretty knowledgeable guy, and provide some good information. So why this drivel? I guess the professional biologists and wildlife managers with their degrees are clueless? When are you applying for the job? Hey, I know they're not perfect, but who is? If you have all the answers how to manage the state's diverse wildlife then by all means, jump in.

If the state didn't mismanage their budget, there may actually be a chance to apply, lol. Under funded, under staffed, and under equipped. The biologists may know what they are doing, but when you have like five of them statewide actually working on something worthwhile, it negates any education. Look at our dwindling deer herds, look at how special interests get priority over proper stream management, look at the diversion of waters for urban areas, look at the lack of enforcement on poaching, then look at our licensing fees compared to other states with FAR better managed fish and game populations. Someone is dropping the ball here, and the only agency taking credit for the job is the one that will inevitably be blamed. I don't have all the answers, but there are plenty of other states that they could model their agency after and gain FAR better results. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing repeatedly and hoping for different results. I think it's time to reevaluate our approach.

[RTG]

If the state didn't mismanage their budget, there may actually be a chance to apply, lol. Under funded, under staffed, and under equipped. The biologists may know what they are doing, but when you have like five of them statewide actually working on something worthwhile, it negates any education. Look at our dwindling deer herds, look at how special interests get priority over proper stream management, look at the diversion of waters for urban areas, look at the lack of enforcement on poaching, then look at our licensing fees compared to other states with FAR better managed fish and game populations. Someone is dropping the ball here, and the only agency taking credit for the job is the one that will inevitably be blamed. I don't have all the answers, but there are plenty of other states that they could model their agency after and gain FAR better results. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing repeatedly and hoping for different results. I think it's time to reevaluate our approach.

The DFG is hiring-there are announcement bulletins weekly. They just graduated an academy with wardens now on field training. So don't use the excuse that there is no money. Its easy to blame the DFG on dwindling deer herds or other wildlife issues, but you're placing the blame on the wrong "perp". The state's wildlife woes are directly in response to California's overpopulation and habitat loss. You look at other states wildlife and remark how wonderful it is. Those states have nowhere near the population and critical habitat loss that we do.
Blame it on big money developers and urban sprawl. Heck, one of your little "honeyholes" is going bye-bye very shortly. The open space off of Newport has been approved for a massive development of tract homes, schools and parks. Last time I checked deer don't do so good in that kind of "habitat".
The DFG does a pretty good job for what it has to work with. Big money talks. You know that. When developers buy off politicians they get what they want. Put the blame where it belongs. And give credit where credit is due. You know darn well that parts of this state are full of deer, turkeys, wild trout, world-class bass fishing and much more. If you live in urban LA County you may not believe that, but others who live in more remote areas of the state know it's true. So does the DFG get full credit for that as well? If no, then why not? Some people just like to complain. I know you're on JHO, and saw the thread about the pigeon and quail poachers that got busted. Did you give them an "atta-boy"?
Bottom line-I know the DFG isn't perfect, but show me someone who is...do I hear crickets? If the DFG went away tomorrow, what do you think happens to wildlife and habitat? Seriously. Think about it. It would go to hell, so they must be doing something right.

[Tom]

The DFG is hiring-there are announcement bulletins weekly. They just graduated an academy with wardens now on field training. So don't use the excuse that there is no money.
What money tree did they get it from. The tree growing 100.00 bills behind Wal-Mart ???

Its easy to blame the DFG on dwindling deer herds or other wildlife issues, but you're placing the blame on the wrong "perp". The state's wildlife woes are directly in response to California's overpopulation and habitat loss.
Complete lack of proper management By DFG being controlled by Tree Hugger groups is the problem

You look at other states wildlife and remark how wonderful it is.
The other states have real Sportsmen Not Wanna be tree huggers

Blame it on big money developers and urban sprawl.
Comment taken right out of the tree hugger manual page 9 verse 3



The DFG does a pretty good job for what it has to work with.
You should do stand up comedy...really your Hilarious

Big money talks. You know that.
and the DFG always makes decisions based on Big Money Tree hugger groups

Some people just like to complain. I know you're on JHO, and saw the thread about the pigeon and quail poachers that got busted. Did you give them an "atta-boy"?
Another remark from page three of the tree hugger manual

Bottom line-I know the DFG isn't perfect, but show me someone who is...do I hear crickets? If the DFG went away tomorrow, what do you think happens to wildlife and habitat? ....
A real sportsmen federation would take over and improve the wildlife 50 fold

We need the Fish and game to be run by Sportsmen Hunters and Fishermen.
And not the fishermen claiming to be Sportsmen that fish the creeks and rivers and lakes in So California claiming to be conservationist and being dishonest on a forum about catching fish and how many or how they caught them......and then keeping the spot secret from the other members....leaving behind the beer cans and trash at the last stream they fished

[Tom]

No we forgot as follows


San Deigo creek
San Mateo creek in Fall brook...you can accually see them in the creek while spawning
Devils canyon creek...tributary of above creek
San Onofre
Santa Margarita creek
Deluz
San Luis Rey

Darn I am getting older There are more of them

Just for you as we know your the President ( Big kahuna) of the ....."Secret California Fishing Waters Society"

Look this Secret Stream junk is Baloney
We should be teaching "Proper Stream Educate" not Secret fishing holes....for a few of you to Destroy
Next week i will help others with "Brown Trout Streams" in the inland empire

I knew i would remember more....Trabuco Creek in San Juan Capistrano

travel only as far as a large pool at the bottom of a concrete culvert...go see them durng the spawning run
Just leave them alone..let them do thier thing

Secrets.....

[RTG]

You're a friggen' joke, Tom. I've been fishing and hunting my whole, long life. Calling me a tree hugger... funny. Almost as funny as saying the DFG is controlled by tree hugger groups. Really? Where did you get those facts? Western Outdoor News? What a joke. I cited facts for you. The DFG has a newly-hired cadet force on field training right NOW. There are announcement bulletins for open positions. And what do you have for us? Stereotypical "you're a tree hugger" comments.
I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy the concrete jungle. I guess it doesn't bother you, as I see you live in Moreno Valley. If all I had was Lake Perris I guess I might be frustrated too. Although Lake Perris has fine fishing for trophy bass, bull bluegill and slab crappies.
Me and my outdoors buddies harvest deer, pigs, upland game and fish every year. And I suppose you want me to share my "spots" with you, because you can't find your own and want to blame it on the DFG. Sure. Like I said before, abolish the DFG and let me how how the wildlife resources are doing without them. One more thing...I don't get where you're coming from regarding my statement about the busted poachers on JHO. Do you even know what JHO is? I doubt there's any tree huggers there.

[kwin]

FYI--Southern Run DPS steelhead are protected federally through the Endangered Species Act which is overseen by NOAA Fisheries and the USFWS, not the CDFG. The SoCal steelhead are protected by the State, but Federal Listing superseeds State listing.

P.S. I"m so glad some of you appreciate the work we do to provide as many diverse inland fisheries for your enjoyment as the constraints placed upon us will allow.....RTG's anyway.

[Tom]

[QUOTE=kwin;629920]FYI--Southern Run DPS steelhead are protected federally through the Endangered Species Act which is overseen by NOAA Fisheries and the USFWS, not the CDFG. The SoCal steelhead are protected by the State, but Federal Listing superseeds State listing.

P.S. I"m so glad some of you appreciate the work we do to provide as many diverse inland fisheries for your enjoyment as the constraints placed upon us will allow.....RTG's anyway

Did you mean the way the DFG a few years back were using Fishing license Moneys to take plane and helicopter rides and parties on the fishermens dime??
Some of use dont forget
maybe your too young

[Tom]

You're a friggen' joke, Tom. I've been fishing and hunting my whole, long life. Calling me a tree hugger... funny. Almost as funny as saying the DFG is controlled by tree hugger groups. Really? Where did you get those facts? Western Outdoor News? What a joke. I cited facts for you. The DFG has a newly-hired cadet force on field training right NOW. There are announcement bulletins for open positions. And what do you have for us? Stereotypical "you're a tree hugger" comments.
I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy the concrete jungle. I guess it doesn't bother you, as I see you live in Moreno Valley. If all I had was Lake Perris I guess I might be frustrated too. Although Lake Perris has fine fishing for trophy bass, bull bluegill and slab crappies.
Me and my outdoors buddies harvest deer, pigs, upland game and fish every year. And I suppose you want me to share my "spots" with you, because you can't find your own and want to blame it on the DFG. Sure. Like I said before, abolish the DFG and let me how how the wildlife resources are doing without them. One more thing...I don't get where you're coming from regarding my statement about the busted poachers on JHO. Do you even know what JHO is? I doubt there's any tree huggers there.
So you slay the animals do you you and your Buddies??..GOOD for you...so you want to Brag??
We could start a count of Mounted Antlers in our homes....Who needs your spots really You HAVE no secrets spots
....You opened your mouth and trashed Skyler.....Now your Your undies are in a wad???
You dont know MUCH about the DFG
How about when Edison called the DFG to remove the trout in the Holding bay at edison Number one on the santa ana river??
They wanted to make sure when the drained the pond that they did not kill the trout..so they have the DFG remove the trout for them
The DFG kills the Browns instead of relocating them..DFG says Well They re Not Native to the area...and too preditory
They could have relocated them..BUT NO
But i am sure you remember when it made the newspapers right????
Your the Joke....DFG california for the Most part SUCKS
and yes they Have some Good DFG cops....SOME and they are under manned and lot of it due to Wastful spending and the higher up guys at the DFG ARE controlled by the Tree Huggers...they even closed Davis road between neuvo and Moreno Valley to protect wildlife.....Please what a Joke The wildlife was fine for 70 years with cars driving through the area
Lets see we burn the brush at lake perris in the east end to Protect and make better habitat for a RAT..How many RATS do we need?? (again Treee Huggers)
the kangaroo Rat gets a better rating than a Deer in California
Check your Facts before you get your Undies in a wad
here you go ..before you ever trash someone..get your facts straight

http://www.outdoornewsservice.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=333:forest-service-kills-brown-trout-in-violation-of-the-law&Itemid=68

make sure and read it the DFG was Part of this
I am sure i can find the Article where the DFG had their spokesmen speak on the Detrimental affects of Brown trout in california

Did you kow the DFG killed so many brown trout in the 60s in Convict lake they were stacked up like Cordwood???
We could go on and On

[Skyler]

RTG, ignore the trolling, you were talking to me about something serious. I enjoy these discussions. No need to worry about "tree hugging," lol. You said that if we take the DFG out of the equation, it would have bad results. Honestly, I doubt that. You know who checked my hunting license today? San Bernardino County Sheriff's Dept. Not DFG. Same as the last three times. I hunt/fish at least twice a week, EVERY week, ALL year, yet I bump into DFG about once a year tops. Some years I plain don't. As for management, I doubt they released the 7 does and no bucks I bumped in D-14 last weekend, and the 30 does and no bucks I bumped last season. Yet they still don't grasp the concept of doe management (I think they just don't care, unless it's an endangered frog or rare barnacle worthy of closing 100 miles of shoreline). And I know the doves I shot in Blythe this year didn't get there with DFG funds. I didn't see them intervening in all the illegal deer drives last year, nor preventing the damming of the Santa Ana River back in the '90's. They are essentially taking millions of dollars of revenue and using it to stock thousands of dollars in worthless hatchery fish. I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble seeing where my license fees and tax dollars are going. I stand by my original statement that CA DFG brings in more in license fees than any other state, but does the least for the sportsmen paying their paychecks. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

P.S. This is not a dig at the individual wardens serving our state, but the agency that employs them, and it's lack of proper budget management.

[RTG]

So you slay the animals do you you and your Buddies??..GOOD for you...so you want to Brag??
We could start a count of Mounted Antlers in our homes....Who needs your spots really You HAVE no secrets spots
....You opened your mouth and trashed Skyler.....Now your Your undies are in a wad???
You dont know MUCH about the DFG
How about when Edison called the DFG to remove the trout in the Holding bay at edison Number one on the santa ana river??
They wanted to make sure when the drained the pond that they did not kill the trout..so they have the DFG remove the trout for them
The DFG kills the Browns instead of relocating them..DFG says Well They re Not Native to the area...and too preditory
They could have relocated them..BUT NO
But i am sure you remember when it made the newspapers right????
Your the Joke....DFG california for the Most part SUCKS
and yes they Have some Good DFG cops....SOME and they are under manned and lot of it due to Wastful spending and the higher up guys at the DFG ARE controlled by the Tree Huggers...they even closed Davis road between neuvo and Moreno Valley to protect wildlife.....Please what a Joke The wildlife was fine for 70 years with cars driving through the area
Lets see we burn the brush at lake perris in the east end to Protect and make better habitat for a RAT..How many RATS do we need?? (again Treee Huggers)
the kangaroo Rat gets a better rating than a Deer in California
Check your Facts before you get your Undies in a wad
here you go ..before you ever trash someone..get your facts straight

http://www.outdoornewsservice.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=333:forest-service-kills-brown-trout-in-violation-of-the-law&Itemid=68

make sure and read it the DFG was Part of this
I am sure i can find the Article where the DFG had their spokesmen speak on the Detrimental affects of Brown trout in california

Did you kow the DFG killed so many brown trout in the 60s in Convict lake they were stacked up like Cordwood???
We could go on and On
Well as usual you're full of it. The DFG did not kill any brown trout that were removed from the power plant. You lost what tiny bit of a semblance of credibility you had when you cite articles on the ONS. That would be Jim Matthews, a known DFG basher. Famous for exaggeration and sensationalism to sell articles and get online "hits". Hey, I know he has to sell his pieces, but you can take them with a grain of salt.
And I know a lot more about DFG then you'll ever forget, buddy. But I'm done replying to your trolling posts, filled with spelling and grammatical errors, and lies. Go complain to someone else, hater.

[RTG]

RTG, ignore the trolling, you were talking to me about something serious. I enjoy these discussions. No need to worry about "tree hugging," lol. You said that if we take the DFG out of the equation, it would have bad results. Honestly, I doubt that. You know who checked my hunting license today? San Bernardino County Sheriff's Dept. Not DFG. Same as the last three times. I hunt/fish at least twice a week, EVERY week, ALL year, yet I bump into DFG about once a year tops. Some years I plain don't. As for management, I doubt they released the 7 does and no bucks I bumped in D-14 last weekend, and the 30 does and no bucks I bumped last season. Yet they still don't grasp the concept of doe management (I think they just don't care, unless it's an endangered frog or rare barnacle worthy of closing 100 miles of shoreline). And I know the doves I shot in Blythe this year didn't get there with DFG funds. I didn't see them intervening in all the illegal deer drives last year, nor preventing the damming of the Santa Ana River back in the '90's. They are essentially taking millions of dollars of revenue and using it to stock thousands of dollars in worthless hatchery fish. I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble seeing where my license fees and tax dollars are going. I stand by my original statement that CA DFG brings in more in license fees than any other state, but does the least for the sportsmen paying their paychecks. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

P.S. This is not a dig at the individual wardens serving our state, but the agency that employs them, and it's lack of proper budget management.

It certainly doesn't help budgets when the governor steals money from the fish and game preservation fund and uses it for other budgets. If they would leave it alone it would be used where it is supposed to be used-managing the state's resources. And the DFG did in fact just graduate a warden class. They are in field training right now.
I also think it's nice that Deputy Franklin checked your hunting license. He is a rarity in that he enjoys contacting hunters and fishers. Why? Because he is an avid outdoorsman himself. No one requests his help, but I'm sure it is appreciated. BTW-that warden's district consists of the entire San Bernardino range, except the Big Bear area. He does what he can, I'm sure. The DFG must manage more land and wildlife species than any other state, except Alaska and Texas. Given the liberal status of this state they do a pretty good job with the hand that's dealt. Most of the stupid, unnecessary bills that tie their hands are assembly bills or propositions that are voted on by the liberal masses (mtn lion, for example).
The Seven Oaks Dam was created for flood control for Orange County. DFG could not have stopped that-but they monitored it. I know they filed a large pollution case against them and won. And no, they didn't release any deer you bumped in to-the DFG doesn't raise deer-what state does? The DFG also proposed a doe hunt in San Bernardino County several years back, but the county shot it down. They are allowed to do that by law. Blame them.
Deer drives, eh? Specifically where? You witnessed this? Did you call Cal-Tip? I realize you're frustrated, but all the problems regarding wildlife and resources are not the DFG's. Like I said-they do what they can and it is tough when they have to battle all the special interest groups. That's a fact my friend.

[Skyler]

It certainly doesn't help budgets when the governor steals money from the fish and game preservation fund and uses it for other budgets. If they would leave it alone it would be used where it is supposed to be used-managing the state's resources. And the DFG did in fact just graduate a warden class. They are in field training right now.
I also think it's nice that Deputy Franklin checked your hunting license. He is a rarity in that he enjoys contacting hunters and fishers. Why? Because he is an avid outdoorsman himself. No one requests his help, but I'm sure it is appreciated. BTW-that warden's district consists of the entire San Bernardino range, except the Big Bear area. He does what he can, I'm sure. The DFG must manage more land and wildlife species than any other state, except Alaska and Texas. Given the liberal status of this state they do a pretty good job with the hand that's dealt. Most of the stupid, unnecessary bills that tie their hands are assembly bills or propositions that are voted on by the liberal masses (mtn lion, for example).
The Seven Oaks Dam was created for flood control for Orange County. DFG could not have stopped that-but they monitored it. I know they filed a large pollution case against them and won. And no, they didn't release any deer you bumped in to-the DFG doesn't raise deer-what state does? The DFG also proposed a doe hunt in San Bernardino County several years back, but the county shot it down. They are allowed to do that by law. Blame them.
Deer drives, eh? Specifically where? You witnessed this? Did you call Cal-Tip? I realize you're frustrated, but all the problems regarding wildlife and resources are not the DFG's. Like I said-they do what they can and it is tough when they have to battle all the special interest groups. That's a fact my friend.

So our license money is being squandered, like I said. If DFG allows their budget to be absorbed by other departments, they are the only ones to blame. They can always appeal, and bring the media in. I'm sure the libs would a have field day if they knew the money set aside to protect their beloved endangered moss is being re appropriated to build high speed railways. A simple ballot initiative protecting the fund for wildlife management could solve that issue (just like the mt. lions). And I do realize Rick's district includes the whole mountain, as well as the Cajon Pass, and like I said, I'm not digging at individual officers. They have always done their job well when I've seen them, though I seldom see them anymore. The fact that he has to patrol that large of an area without backup is exactly what I'm getting at here. As far as the deer drives, I saw one at Coxey Meadows, one on Morton Peak, one at Big Pine Flat, and guys gearing up at the Cleghorn area last season. All illegals with radios and at least ten man groups. I can guarantee they probably had one tag between the ten of them. I have called Caltip on them, however it is rare for me to have cell reception in the places I hunt, and when I do, they never show up. Last year only 80/3000 tags were filled in this zone. I doubt this year will be much better. Either way, I doubt we need to argue about it. I'm sure you are frustrated with the current state of our wildlife management as well. DFG is just the easiest one to blame, as they are charged with its protection, be it from poachers, or legislators.

[teejay]

The DFG did not kill any brown trout that were removed from the power plant

Well, what happened then RTG? The article was written by Richard Bean, a man well respected in the fly fishing community. The article doesn’t read like a bash job to me. Richard said in the article that he talked with both of the men who were responsible for killing the brown trout . Richard showed restraint by not publically naming them, and to his credit praised the men for "years of good stewardship of our fisheries in this area".

[fishinarteest]

RTG, ignore the trolling, you were talking to me about something serious. I enjoy these discussions. No need to worry about "tree hugging," lol. You said that if we take the DFG out of the equation, it would have bad results. Honestly, I doubt that. You know who checked my hunting license today? San Bernardino County Sheriff's Dept. Not DFG. Same as the last three times. I hunt/fish at least twice a week, EVERY week, ALL year, yet I bump into DFG about once a year tops. Some years I plain don't. As for management, I doubt they released the 7 does and no bucks I bumped in D-14 last weekend, and the 30 does and no bucks I bumped last season. Yet they still don't grasp the concept of doe management (I think they just don't care, unless it's an endangered frog or rare barnacle worthy of closing 100 miles of shoreline). And I know the doves I shot in Blythe this year didn't get there with DFG funds. I didn't see them intervening in all the illegal deer drives last year, nor preventing the damming of the Santa Ana River back in the '90's. They are essentially taking millions of dollars of revenue and using it to stock thousands of dollars in worthless hatchery fish. I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble seeing where my license fees and tax dollars are going. I stand by my original statement that CA DFG brings in more in license fees than any other state, but does the least for the sportsmen paying their paychecks. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

P.S. This is not a dig at the individual wardens serving our state, but the agency that employs them, and it's lack of proper budget management.

Funny, ive been fishing close to 20yrs and have only met the dfg once. In another state, every other time, i got checked or chatted with la county sheriffs. I saw dfg leave as i was driving up to the aqueduct once. But i was like 13 so it may not have been them. It may have been sheriffs. As for license money i too fail to see where it is going. i've been buying a license every year for 6 years and the fees just go up. but yet i have yet to see cadfg in my lifetime, i still see more poaching than a little bit. And I keep seeing these dfg stocked trout all over the place, that are too small to even fit on my hook. Yet i hear more and more about fishing in california being threatened. I don't hate dfg( how can i hate whom I haven't met) but when i hear about things like millions of dollars going into changing the name from dfg to dfw or something like that. I wonder, why am i paying for a license?

[Skyler]

Well, what happened then RTG? The article was written by Richard Bean, a man well respected in the fly fishing community. The article doesn’t read like a bash job to me. Richard said in the article that he talked with both of the men who were responsible for killing the brown trout . Richard showed restraint by not publically naming them, and to his credit praised the men for "years of good stewardship of our fisheries in this area".

I fish up there a lot, and have heard the story first hand from the techs at the power plant. The browns were indeed removed, and many forestry and Edison employees actually took them home to eat. Dfg was the agency that enacted it. Not saying I have a problem with that. The brown trout are non-native, and impact the rainbow trout population. Since their removal, I have seen far larger rainbows there.

[RTG]

So our license money is being squandered, like I said. If DFG allows their budget to be absorbed by other departments, they are the only ones to blame. They can always appeal, and bring the media in. I'm sure the libs would a have field day if they knew the money set aside to protect their beloved endangered moss is being re appropriated to build high speed railways. A simple ballot initiative protecting the fund for wildlife management could solve that issue (just like the mt. lions). And I do realize Rick's district includes the whole mountain, as well as the Cajon Pass, and like I said, I'm not digging at individual officers. They have always done their job well when I've seen them, though I seldom see them anymore. The fact that he has to patrol that large of an area without backup is exactly what I'm getting at here. As far as the deer drives, I saw one at Coxey Meadows, one on Morton Peak, one at Big Pine Flat, and guys gearing up at the Cleghorn area last season. All illegals with radios and at least ten man groups. I can guarantee they probably had one tag between the ten of them. I have called Caltip on them, however it is rare for me to have cell reception in the places I hunt, and when I do, they never show up. Last year only 80/3000 tags were filled in this zone. I doubt this year will be much better. Either way, I doubt we need to argue about it. I'm sure you are frustrated with the current state of our wildlife management as well. DFG is just the easiest one to blame, as they are charged with its protection, be it from poachers, or legislators.
It was brought to light (governor taking DFG money for other budgets). Guess you missed the article a few years back. There was a lawsuit to stop the taking of that money. You really nailed it when you ended your post with "DFG is easiest to blame." But they really aren't totally to blame. Like I said, politicians have a stake in many of these matters. Assembly bills pop up all the time. Remember about 10 years ago when Assemblyman Joe Nation brought up a bill to stop mourning dove hunting in California, for example? Luckily it was defeated in the House. Had it passed I guarantee you that most people would blame the DFG, when they actually have no power to do anything about it.
You people need to realize that there are special interest groups doing nothing but trying to find ways to whittle away at fishing and hunting in an effort to finally end it all. You're blaming the wrong folks when you blame the DFG. They fight these groups time and time again. It is a never-ending war. You better do your homework and fight the enemy, and I promise you the enemy ain't the DFG. It's the HSUS and the Center for Biological Diversities of the world.
As for deer drives/ herding, well I believe what you saw. If you can't get out on your cell then make good notes-describe people, vehicles, times, places, GPS coordinates and get ahold of "Rick" later. Don't just complain and get mad and do nothing. That's like the guy who doesn't vote and then complains when Obama is elected president.
As you can see I'm not ripping you here, I'm trying to help you understand some things. Look, I've said it before...the DFG isn't perfect, but they have an awful lot of barriers to get through when managing the resources. If it's so bad here, try hunting or fishing somewhere like New Jersey or Delaware. Many states have far less public access and "free" opportunities. Check out how many states don't even have a dove season, because doves are "songbirds".
See ya.

[RTG]

I fish up there a lot, and have heard the story first hand from the techs at the power plant. The browns were indeed removed, and many forestry and Edison employees actually took them home to eat. Dfg was the agency that enacted it. Not saying I have a problem with that. The brown trout are non-native, and impact the rainbow trout population. Since their removal, I have seen far larger rainbows there.
Yeah, I believe everything that Edison tells me. That's the same Edison that put up the white gate way up Warm Springs Truck Trail. They would prefer to keep the public totally out of that area because of their power stations, that are on public land by the way. All the locked gates back there are thanks to Edison petitioning the Forest Service to keep them locked. Remember when you could drive all the up to Manzanita Flats? Thanks to Edison-no more.
And you can thank the DFG for keeping public access to that area, including the Seven Oaks Dam pool. San Bernardino County Flood Control workers routinely kicked people out until the DFG intervened and pointed out that under the Fish and Game Code the public has the right to gain access and use it! These things are facts.

[RTG]

Funny, ive been fishing close to 20yrs and have only met the dfg once. In another state, every other time, i got checked or chatted with la county sheriffs. I saw dfg leave as i was driving up to the aqueduct once. But i was like 13 so it may not have been them. It may have been sheriffs. As for license money i too fail to see where it is going. i've been buying a license every year for 6 years and the fees just go up. but yet i have yet to see cadfg in my lifetime, i still see more poaching than a little bit. And I keep seeing these dfg stocked trout all over the place, that are too small to even fit on my hook. Yet i hear more and more about fishing in california being threatened. I don't hate dfg( how can i hate whom I haven't met) but when i hear about things like millions of dollars going into changing the name from dfg to dfw or something like that. I wonder, why am i paying for a license?

"In another state, every other time, i got checked or chatted with la county sheriffs."
Interesting. I didn't know LA County Sheriff's deputies had jurisdiction in another state???

[Tom]

Well as usual you're full of it. The DFG did not kill any brown trout that were removed from the power plant. You lost what tiny bit of a semblance of credibility you had when you cite articles on the ONS. That would be Jim Matthews, a known DFG basher. Famous for exaggeration and sensationalism to sell articles and get online "hits". Hey, I know he has to sell his pieces, but you can take them with a grain of salt.
And I know a lot more about DFG then you'll ever forget, buddy. But I'm done replying to your trolling posts, filled with spelling and grammatical errors, and lies. Go complain to someone else, hater.

You must be running on Obama Ticket..If not you should take a Job in politics....you fit right in

It did happen..and the DFG did go so far as to say the BROWNS ARE TOO PREDITORY.

I am glad to see you love the california DFG ..maybe you should be working with them High Up DFG guys

[Skyler]

Yeah, I believe everything that Edison tells me. That's the same Edison that put up the white gate way up Warm Springs Truck Trail. They would prefer to keep the public totally out of that area because of their power stations, that are on public land by the way. All the locked gates back there are thanks to Edison petitioning the Forest Service to keep them locked. Remember when you could drive all the up to Manzanita Flats? Thanks to Edison-no more.
And you can thank the DFG for keeping public access to that area, including the Seven Oaks Dam pool. San Bernardino County Flood Control workers routinely kicked people out until the DFG intervened and pointed out that under the Fish and Game Code the public has the right to gain access and use it! These things are facts.

It was an individual tech i know who works that station and the one on Mill creek. He has nothing to gain from making that up. Hell, he has thrown plenty of bones my way, including some "underground" (literally, you probably know what I'm talking about) giant brown trout in that drainage. He fishes the area himself, and was a little perturbed about them removing the browns. Like I said, I could care less. I'd prefer the native fish to have free reign of the creek. Though I guarantee that removing the browns from that small stretch will have no effect on their population in the long run. As for the gates, I agree, and there are plenty of Edison employees that agree as well. But they have no say about what measures corporate enacts. As for DFG fighting for access, i know, I'm one of the ones that complained about it. The security up there tried to kick me out. I refused and told them to call the Sheriff's Dept. Cited F&G 5943 and kept fishing. Caught some good fish that day, he he. About a month or two later, DFG told them to quit jamming us up. DFG has helped me in the past, and I have helped them. But it still doesn't excuse the rampant misappropriation of funds. For reference purposes:

California Fish and Game Code 5943 (a):

(a) The owner of a dam shall accord to the public for the
purpose of fishing, the right of access to the waters impounded by
the dam during the open season for the taking of fish in the stream
or river, subject to the regulations of the commission.

[fishinarteest]

"In another state, every other time, i got checked or chatted with la county sheriffs."
Interesting. I didn't know LA County Sheriff's deputies had jurisdiction in another state???

What? i was talking about the only time i saw someone enforcing fish and game laws it was la sheriffs. Outside of this state is the only place where ive seen dfg. forgive me for i couldn't think of a better way to phrase that statement at the time.

[carpanglerdude]

For reference purposes:

California Fish and Game Code 5943 (a):

(a) The owner of a dam shall accord to the public for the
purpose of fishing, the right of access to the waters impounded by
the dam during the open season for the taking of fish in the stream
or river, subject to the regulations of the commission.


and

And you can thank the DFG for keeping public access to that area, including the Seven Oaks Dam pool.

Despite that it may be perfectly legal to access Seven Oaks Dam pool, the powers that be sure do not make it appear as so. Driving up to the dam only to be turned away and told that there is no fishing whatsoever at the reservoir does not leave one with a good taste in their mouth.

Don't get me started on the vast number of excellent reservoirs locked up in the mountains in the area, ugh.

[Skyler]

and


Despite that it may be perfectly legal to access Seven Oaks Dam pool, the powers that be sure do not make it appear as so. Driving up to the dam only to be turned away and told that there is no fishing whatsoever at the reservoir does not leave one with a good taste in their mouth.

Don't get me started on the vast number of excellent reservoirs locked up in the mountains in the area, ugh.

According to Warden fisher, that should be a thing of the past. Enough of us have complained at this point. If they do hem you up, tell 'em what they can suck. They have no authority there as long as you aren't on the dam itself (which constitutes a safety hazard). And this is coming from someone in the same line of work.

[Fish Cop]

Once again, the Internet breeds a level of expertise that is both laughable and disconcerting. Some of the posts in this topic are so off kilter, it makes me wonder how the hell they even got appropriate licenses. A special acknowledgment to "Tom." Unbelievable.

[Skyler]

Once again, the Internet breeds a level of expertise that is both laughable and disconcerting. Some of the posts in this topic are so off kilter, it makes me wonder how the hell they even got appropriate licenses. A special acknowledgment to "Tom." Unbelievable.

Some of us are indeed a little out there. Excuse tom, he hasn't had his meds today, lol. But some of us are truly concerned here. Do you have any real input on the subject, or are you just gonna take digs at the contributing members?

[Fish Cop]

I'll add some constructive info even though a bit of mocking was warranted. First, one should realize that the waters behind the dam up to what can be considered a high water point may be subject to flood control basin regulations thru SBCo. You can be stopped and or cited as a result. And before it gets argued, yes, cites are written all the time in the lower portions of the Santa Ana for the same, albeit usually for off-roaders. Personally, I don't see it occurring to anyone, but the possibility is there.

I'm not saying not to go behind the dam, I'm just saying there's a myriad of ways that your presence can be discouraged beyond PC violations. And for what it's worth, I'm not some noob. I've averaged around 80-100 days a year on the locals for the last few decades. I've seen the changes and have a strong desire to see these fisheries thrive.

[carpanglerdude]

I'll add some constructive info even though a bit of mocking was warranted. First, one should realize that the waters behind the dam up to what can be considered a high water point may be subject to flood control basin regulations thru SBCo. You can be stopped and or cited as a result. And before it gets argued, yes, cites are written all the time in the lower portions of the Santa Ana for the same, albeit usually for off-roaders. Personally, I don't see it occurring to anyone, but the possibility is there.

I'm not saying not to go behind the dam, I'm just saying there's a myriad of ways that your presence can be discouraged beyond PC violations. And for what it's worth, I'm not some noob. I've averaged around 80-100 days a year on the locals for the last few decades. I've seen the changes and have a strong desire to see these fisheries thrive.

It's garbage like this that creates a negative fishing environment in this region. I'm eager to fish that area but am tired of dealing with "murky" laws and officials with differing opinions as to what is legal and what is not. Same situation as the thread I started about Private Property and No Tresspassing in the San Bern Mts.
Offtopic rant, sorry.

[Fish Cop]

Try enforcing marijuana laws in California. Talk about murky. :EyePop:

[Skyler]

I'll add some constructive info even though a bit of mocking was warranted. First, one should realize that the waters behind the dam up to what can be considered a high water point may be subject to flood control basin regulations thru SBCo. You can be stopped and or cited as a result. And before it gets argued, yes, cites are written all the time in the lower portions of the Santa Ana for the same, albeit usually for off-roaders. Personally, I don't see it occurring to anyone, but the possibility is there.

I'm not saying not to go behind the dam, I'm just saying there's a myriad of ways that your presence can be discouraged beyond PC violations. And for what it's worth, I'm not some noob. I've averaged around 80-100 days a year on the locals for the last few decades. I've seen the changes and have a strong desire to see these fisheries thrive.

The river below the dam and into town falls under flood control's jurisdiction. And yeah, they mainly jam up dirt bikers down there. In fact the signs posted list a county ordinance about vehicle access, and not PC 602. Above the dam is national forest land, and you are good to enter the area for the purposes of fishing. Of course you'll have a fun hike, as Edison generally keeps the upper gate shut. The hike back up is hellish in the summer time.