boy, we get screwed here

[dday07]

Just got back from Ohio visiting a friend...fished almost everyday and one big diff. there from here...FREE! County Park,State Park every park free entrance.could fish all nite long at a few of the parks also.

[tracker16]

The reason for that is they dont trash the parks like in California.

[HawgZWylde]

Just got back from Ohio visiting a friend...fished almost everyday and one big diff. there from here...FREE! County Park,State Park every park free entrance.could fish all nite long at a few of the parks also.

California has the highest paid, most lavishly benefited state employees in the nation. Throw in the billions to pay for their unfunded pensions and you have a system where the money you pay goes not to the services you expect in return, but to fund the employees and the corrupt state government. The actual services are a second thought. You are right, Californians are getting screwed, and they just keep voting for these same corrupt politicians who pander to the government employees, their unions, and the folks who live on the government social services teet over and over. It's been going on for a little over 35 years. That's what happens when one political party rules in perpetuity, especially since it's an ideologically progressive socialist entity...

[karalm]

California has the highest paid, most lavishly benefited state employees in the nation. Throw in the billions to pay for their unfunded pensions and you have a system where the money you pay goes not to the services you expect in return, but to fund the employees and the corrupt state government. The actual services are a second thought. You are right, Californians are getting screwed, and they just keep voting for these same corrupt politicians who pander to the government employees, their unions, and the folks who live on the government social services teet over and over. It's been going on for a little over 35 years. That's what happens when one political party rules in perpetuity, especially since it's an ideologically progressive socialist entity...

Could have not said it better myself...............NOW Wake UP PEOPLE and Vote to CHANGE the 35 yr normal!!

[seal]

California has the highest paid, most lavishly benefited state employees in the nation. Throw in the billions to pay for their unfunded pensions and you have a system where the money you pay goes not to the services you expect in return, but to fund the employees and the corrupt state government. The actual services are a second thought. You are right, Californians are getting screwed, and they just keep voting for these same corrupt politicians who pander to the government employees, their unions, and the folks who live on the government social services teet over and over. It's been going on for a little over 35 years. That's what happens when one political party rules in perpetuity, especially since it's an ideologically progressive socialist entity...

Yup and California is a great example of what the country could become or is already becoming!

[HawgZWylde]

Yup and California is a great example of what the country could become or is already becoming!

Absolutely Seal. What the people who don't pay attention don't realize is this upcoming election is perhaps the most important in our nations history. For all that is being propagated to the masses, the true "prize" of this next administration is the supreme court, or the justices themselves more specifically. 3 of them will more than likely retire on the next presidents watch, the current president has already installed 2 progressive liberal justices. If he wins re election, he WILL appoint 3 more. This will not bode well for our nation and it's constitution, as we all know how progressives love to "interpret" it's meanings. Can you imagine the Supreme court behaving, and rendering decisions like the 9th circus (circuit) here in Cali? It would be like a court full of Rose Birds, remember her? Really worrisome thought indeed...

[Jimmy310]

Remember to vote tomorrow for change.

They have already passed that SB1221 and is the beginning of the end for dog hunting.

Senators who voted YES were:
Elaine Alquist (D-13)
Ron Calderon (D-30)
Ellen Corbett (D-10)
Kevin De Leon 9D-22)
Mark DeSaulnier (D-07)
Bill Emmerson (R-37)
Loni Hankcock (D-09)
Ed Hernandez (D-24)
Christine Kehoe (D-39)
Mark Leno (D-30)
Ted Lieu (D-28)
Carol Liu (D-21)
Alan Lowenthal (D-27)
Gloria Negrete McLeod (D-32)
Alex Padilla (D-20)
Fran Pavley (D-23)
Curren D. Prince Jr. (D-26)
Joe Simitian (D-11)
Darrell Steinberg (D-06)
Tony Strickland (R-19)
Juan Vargas (D-08)
Leland Y. Yee (D-08)

If you live in the above districts, I urge yo to contact your Senator and spread the word if you enjoy the outdoors. I know this is a fishing forum but most fishermen also hunt. I hope this helps overturn the above SB 1221.
Time to hold our senators accountable and actually speak for us in offish not just special interest groups like the HSUS.

[robnokshus]

Oh puh-leeze! Vote republican and you will pay to fish EVERYWHERE, plus they'll probably close the fish hatcheries too (guvment waste!)

[cutbait]

Oh puh-leeze! Vote republican and you will pay to fish EVERYWHERE, plus they'll probably close the fish hatcheries too (guvment waste!)


By fish hatcheries, you really mean is bait tanks!

Good riddance stocker trouts!

[etucker1959]

Guy's if you want to make this poltical please no name calling or threats. One of the bigest reason we have to pay for all our services in Calif is we have one of the lowest property tax's if not the lowest in the nation thanks to prop 13. My family owns three propertys, two in Calif one in Ohio. The Calif homes are appraised at $350,000 each. We pay $1100 a year property tax on one and the other one we pay $2,600 per year. The home we own in Ohio is appraised at $225,000 and we pay $6,400 a year in property tax's. The citzens of Calif voted in prop 13 and made alot things that use to be free now into user fees. If I don't use it why should I pay tax's for somebody else benefit is the motto of the conservatives. You can't have it both ways, I want it to be free but I don't want to pay any tax's for it either is nonsense!!!

[HawgZWylde]

Oh puh-leeze! Vote republican and you will pay to fish EVERYWHERE, plus they'll probably close the fish hatcheries too (guvment waste!)

The republicans would put the money back where it belongs and where it was originally intended. The extreme environmentalists are the ones who want the stocking programs stopped, not the repubs...

[etucker1959]

oh puh-leeze! Vote republican and you will pay to fish everywhere, plus they'll probably close the fish hatcheries too (guvment waste!)
amen brother!!!!!

[etucker1959]

The republicans would put the money back where it belongs and where it was originally intended. The extreme environmentalists are the ones who want the stocking programs stopped, not the repubs...

The republicans are nothing more then a bunch of tightwads. They say government is to big and too expensive so cut cut cut is their motto. The only thing the republicans actually believe in spending money on is, something to force the conformity of people police, prisons and the military. This is not a knock of our brave soliders serving our country, this is a knock of the new republican party lead by the tea bagers.

[HawgZWylde]

The republicans are nothing more then a bunch of tightwads. They say government is to big and too expensive so cut cut cut is their motto. The only thing the republicans actually believe in spending money on is, something to force the conformity of people police, prisons and the military. This is not a knock of our brave soliders serving our country, this is a knock of the new republican party lead by the tea bagers.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Yup, that sure solved it didn't it?

[DarkShadow]

The republicans would put the money back where it belongs and where it was originally intended.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RM1BCtx6GjA/TrwfjtI6sPI/AAAAAAAABo4/Fy9qRCH6_-w/s1600/rich-monopoly-man.jpg

Monopoly man agrees.

[etucker1959]

ROTFLMAO!!!

Yup, that sure solved it didn't it?

If you want solutions listen to the governor and vote in November. The people have two choices, raise tax's and try to keep the government spending close to what people are use to seeing. Or don't approve the governors tax increase request and watch the government programs get slashed. The first and biggest one is education, I think their talking about cutting the school year by TWO WEEKS. So go ahead and vote republican ideas in and see what kind of society the common man gets. Oh the rich don't have to worry about anything they keep getting richer and the republicans will have their back.

[HawgZWylde]

If you want solutions listen to the governor and vote in November. The people have two choices, raise tax's and try to keep the government spending close to what people are use to seeing. Or don't approve the governors tax increase request and watch the government programs get slashed. The first and biggest one is education, I think their talking about cutting the school year by TWO WEEKS. So go ahead and vote republican ideas in and see what kind of society the common man gets. Oh the rich don't have to worry about anything they keep getting richer and the republicans will have their back.

"rich don't have to worry about anything they keep getting richer and the republicans will have their back."

Like George Soros? Warren Buffet? Bill Gates? Mark Zuckerburg? Or perhaps Jeffery Immelt? Or how about multi millionaire Nasty Piglosi? Think Hollywood's limousine liberal millionaires give a rats arse about you? I don't see any of those folks jumping out and redistributing their wealth to anybody. Really, the exact opposite. Rhetoric only makes you look uneducated. Same goes for fear mongering. The progressive democrats have had perpetual control of the California state legislature for 35+ years. And where has that gotten us? After all, they make the laws, right? Cali had the 8th largest prosperous economy in the world when it was a solid conservative state. Now, we are the 8th largest bankrupt economy in the world. Great huh? Ohhh, but that's George Bush's fault right? And your only answer is to fear monger and ridicule with name calling and rhetoric? You already lost the debate dude. I was alive when Moonbeam was governor the first time around. He was a bought out union stooge nutjob then, and is an old bought out union stooge nutjob now...

[carpanglerdude]

I was shocked at the ridiculous price not just to fish, but also to access parks and other 'public' places in California. I've lived all over the USA and nowhere has been as absolutely pricey as Calif. It's a very sad.

Most of my fishing videos show off tiny fish being caught in either filthy streams or places I have to hike relatively far back to. Sad that such things are rather typical for this area.

Of course, catching fish in Cali makes me feel great-after all, if I can catch them here in crazy pressured conditions, I definitely can catch 'em in "easy" places in other states.

But, you guys have some great food and great weather out here !!

[TUNAVIC]

Kinda interesting,sounds like when I went to visit my friend up north just outside Frisco,San Ramon,every saltwater launch we went to was absolutely free,go figure!

Cya Tuna Vic

[etucker1959]

"rich don't have to worry about anything they keep getting richer and the republicans will have their back."

Like George Soros? Warren Buffet? Bill Gates? Mark Zuckerburg? Or perhaps Jeffery Immelt? Or how about multi millionaire Nasty Piglosi? Think Hollywood's limousine liberal millionaires give a rats arse about you? I don't see any of those folks jumping out and redistributing their wealth to anybody. Really, the exact opposite. Rhetoric only makes you look uneducated. Same goes for fear mongering. The progressive democrats have had perpetual control of the California state legislature for 35+ years. And where has that gotten us? After all, they make the laws, right? Cali had the 8th largest prosperous economy in the world when it was a solid conservative state. Now, we are the 8th largest bankrupt economy in the world. Great huh? Ohhh, but that's George Bush's fault right? And your only answer is to fear monger and ridicule with name calling and rhetoric? You already lost the debate dude. I was alive when Moonbeam was governor the first time around. He was a bought out union stooge nutjob then, and is an old bought out union stooge nutjob now...

Oh I got to address a few of your points. I don't think I name called anyone and as far as being uneducated, If got an MBA degree what do you got? Next point, Warren Buffet does care about the little guy, he said "his secretary pays a higher percent in tax's then he does and that's WRONG and that should be corrected". As far as rhetoric goes the republicans are the worst Iv'e ever seen. They keep talking about their 3 item montra, lower tax's, reduce the size of government and reduce governmental regulation and all will be well.(BS) As for fear mongering, what do you think is going to happen when the governor say's "the people have spoken I must now cut services." What you were serious! Can't you do smoke and mirror tricks like our last rebublican governor did? I am eagerly waiting for your response.

[ben0606]

Guy's if you want to make this poltical please no name calling or threats. One of the bigest reason we have to pay for all our services in Calif is we have one of the lowest property tax's if not the lowest in the nation thanks to prop 13. My family owns three propertys, two in Calif one in Ohio. The Calif homes are appraised at $350,000 each. We pay $1100 a year property tax on one and the other one we pay $2,600 per year. The home we own in Ohio is appraised at $225,000 and we pay $6,400 a year in property tax's. The citzens of Calif voted in prop 13 and made alot things that use to be free now into user fees. ways, either is nonsense!!!


Wow wonder what's up with my property tax, bought my house for $240,000 and pay 6k a year in property tax.......hmmm

All I know is I've said it before and I'll say it again when I first fished in Cali I got to the lake at 3 am and was shocked........closed, really ha ha on top of that I pay to park, pay to fish, pay to launch my OWN BOAT! People are rude on the water, no boat courtesy, and fish feet away from ya........not everyone there are some really nice people on the ponds, yes I said ponds not lakes.....you want a lake go to az, mo, Alabama, tx. Go those places and you will see 10 times as much nice people and courtesy.

Why don't I move there? This is the price I pay for meeting a a Cali girl after being stationed here at camp Pendleton.

Some real good fishing here but there are ways to not have all these fees and rules......that would just make too much sense to be able to show up at a lake anytime you want and fish without having to pay. See in Arizona, that's what a fishing license is for, fee to fish. All these poachers who fish without a license..........I used to complain bout paying $40 for a license but I can say thanks to Cali for showing appreciation to veterans......$6 for my license just had to get blown up by an IED and haven shrapnel slice through my jugular and neck.

Oh well, I complain every so often but I will never hang up the poles, I'll be fishing for life and still plan on retiring from civilian life at 39 to join the pro bass tour, ha ha 9 years to practice left. A guy can dream can't he?

Ben

[etucker1959]

Wow wonder what's up with my property tax, bought my house for $240,000 and pay 6k a year in property tax.......hmmm

All I know is I've said it before and I'll say it again when I first fished in Cali I got to the lake at 3 am and was shocked........closed, really ha ha on top of that I pay to park, pay to fish, pay to launch my OWN BOAT! People are rude on the water, no boat courtesy, and fish feet away from ya........not everyone there are some really nice people on the ponds, yes I said ponds not lakes.....you want a lake go to az, mo, Alabama, tx. Go those places and you will see 10 times as much nice people and courtesy.

Why don't I move there? This is the price I pay for meeting a a Cali girl after being stationed here at camp Pendleton.

Some real good fishing here but there are ways to not have all these fees and rules......that would just make too much sense to be able to show up at a lake anytime you want and fish without having to pay. See in Arizona, that's what a fishing license is for, fee to fish. All these poachers who fish without a license..........I used to complain bout paying $40 for a license but I can say thanks to Cali for showing appreciation to veterans......$6 for my license just had to get blown up by an IED and haven shrapnel slice through my jugular and neck.

Oh well, I complain every so often but I will never hang up the poles, I'll be fishing for life and still plan on retiring from civilian life at 39 to join the pro bass tour, ha ha 9 years to practice left. A guy can dream can't he?

Ben

You really pay 6k a year in property tax on a $240,000 house. That's not right! You better have someone look at that for you. If you noticed in my ranting and raving, I made sure not to offend any of our soliders like yourself for doing your duty in defense of our country. Our country owes you guys alot and this is one of the few area's that both parties can agree on.

[HawgZWylde]

Oh I got to address a few of your points. I don't think I name called anyone and as far as being uneducated, If got an MBA degree what do you got? Next point, Warren Buffet does care about the little guy, he said "his secretary pays a higher percent in tax's then he does and that's WRONG and that should be corrected". As far as rhetoric goes the republicans are the worst Iv'e ever seen. They keep talking about their 3 item montra, lower tax's, reduce the size of government and reduce governmental regulation and all will be well.(BS) As for fear mongering, what do you think is going to happen when the governor say's "the people have spoken I must now cut services." What you were serious! Can't you do smoke and mirror tricks like our last rebublican governor did? I am eagerly waiting for your response.

"I don't think I name called anyone and as far as being uneducated, If got an MBA degree what do you got?"

A "teabagger" is a gay male performing a sex act. TEA Party stands for "Taxed Enough Already". You don't consider that "name calling"? I have a Bachelor of science degree in construction science, and a minor in poli-sci/economics. I earned them over 30 years ago.

Warren Buffet? His secretary pays INCOME taxes, Mr. Buffet does not. He pays "capital gains" taxes, millions and millions of $$$ worth. Do you know the difference? Income is what you earned to get a paycheck, or money. Capital gains is when that earned money (capital) is invested and returns a profit (gain), hence "capital gains. This capital was already taxed as income when it was originally earned at a rate determined by the amount earned, or a progressive tax, if you will. Capital gains tax is a flat rate of 15%. Lol, you fell for the demorat "smoke and mirrors" dude. What that is called is double taxation. I'll tell you what's wrong here, is the fact that Warren Buffet owes nearly a billion $$$ in back taxes going back to 2002. He has fought, and is still fighting his responsibility of paying those taxes;

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/how-much-is-buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-back-tax-bill-exactly-about-1-billion/

"They keep talking about their 3 item montra, lower tax's, reduce the size of government and reduce governmental regulation and all will be well."

That "mantra" seems fine to me. It's a start. Do you enjoy giving away your hard earned money to people who feel their "entitled" to it? Your money? The governor is using fear mongering to trick the uneducated masses into paying more taxes. We don't need to cut those services at all, just reduce government waste, bloat, and entitlements such as free healthcare, outrageous and unsustainable pensions (many double dippers out there), and in many cases, outrageous salary and per diems. There are many, many ridiculous government programs out there as well whose staff makes a boatload of money on our dime, like a program that teaches certain women how to breast feed their babies. Really? What happened to instincts?

And finally, you are speaking of Ahnold, he was no republican, he is a progressive liberal wearing republicans clothing. An extreme RINO if you will. It's the legislature that makes the laws dude. And our legislature has been firmly controlled by progressive demorats for 35+ years. This states fiscal fiasco is all on them, there is no one else to blame. Ohhh but of course, they will try to blame Bush...

[white belt]

I'm moving to Tacoma in 2014. Can't wait to fish up there.

[Jimmy310]

I posted so everyone here can contact them and have them overthrow that SB1221.
Some Republicans also voted for it.
Not trying to divide us just raise awareness of how the HSUS is stopping us from enjoying the outdoors.

I would say lets hold our "representatives" accountable, if an employee does not perform at work they get fired, if a student doesn't do good at school, he gets kicked out.
Why don't we do the same for Capital Hill?

[HawgZWylde]

I posted so everyone here can contact them and have them overthrow that SB1221.
Some Republicans also voted for it.
Not trying to divide us just raise awareness of how the HSUS is stopping us from enjoying the outdoors.

I would say lets hold our "representatives" accountable, if an employee does not perform at work they get fired, if a student doesn't do good at school, he gets kicked out.
Why don't we do the same for Capital Hill?

Absolutely Jimmy. And as far as repubs that vote for this kind of crap, that's what the TEA party was successful for in 2010. Getting the RINOs out. I don't see the democrats voting to change out any of the radical leftists that have infiltrated the old democrat party...

[HawgZWylde]

I'm moving to Tacoma in 2014. Can't wait to fish up there.

When I was younger, we used to cruise the Puget Sound fishing and crabbing every year. Love it up there, but it's cold and wet, a lot...

[laserbrn]

I find it ABSOLUTELY ridiculous that in the state of California people can still be making the liberal argument. This is amongst the highest taxed states in the country. We have the largest deficit and the least services to our citizens. We enjoy high fuel costs, high taxes for both property and income and owning a business in California is obviously frowned upon.

How can people IN California blame this on Republicans? That's the most ignorant **** I've seen all year. I understand people attempting to blame conservatives for the financial mess our federal gov't is in (although that too is bullshit). The federal gov't has flip flopped back and forth and they do a good job with the smoke an mirrors to keep it questionable about which representatives have moved the country in a good direction and which have caused us pains.

In California there is no question. This state has been ruled by one party and the mess we are in CLEARLY and plainly cannot be blamed on republicans. They've been nearly non-existent in the state legislature and at the local levels. Look at LA as an example, been run by the left for years! Brokest city in the brokest county in the brokest state in a broke country, and ALL lead by the left. These people that complain about paying fees to use the lakes and somehow think it's the fault of Republicans that there's no money for these services...you people are ludicrous. HOW could you draw this asinine conclusion?

[etucker1959]

"I don't think I name called anyone and as far as being uneducated, If got an MBA degree what do you got?"

A "teabagger" is a gay male performing a sex act. TEA Party stands for "Taxed Enough Already". You don't consider that "name calling"? I have a Bachelor of science degree in construction science, and a minor in poli-sci/economics. I earned them over 30 years ago.

Warren Buffet? His secretary pays INCOME taxes, Mr. Buffet does not. He pays "capital gains" taxes, millions and millions of $$$ worth. Do you know the difference? Income is what you earned to get a paycheck, or money. Capital gains is when that earned money (capital) is invested and returns a profit (gain), hence "capital gains. This capital was already taxed as income when it was originally earned at a rate determined by the amount earned, or a progressive tax, if you will. Capital gains tax is a flat rate of 15%. Lol, you fell for the demorat "smoke and mirrors" dude. What that is called is double taxation. I'll tell you what's wrong here, is the fact that Warren Buffet owes nearly a billion $$$ in back taxes going back to 2002. He has fought, and is still fighting his responsibility of paying those taxes;

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/how-much-is-buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-back-tax-bill-exactly-about-1-billion/

"They keep talking about their 3 item montra, lower tax's, reduce the size of government and reduce governmental regulation and all will be well."

That "mantra" seems fine to me. It's a start. Do you enjoy giving away your hard earned money to people who feel their "entitled" to it? Your money? The governor is using fear mongering to trick the uneducated masses into paying more taxes. We don't need to cut those services at all, just reduce government waste, bloat, and entitlements such as free healthcare, outrageous and unsustainable pensions (many double dippers out there), and in many cases, outrageous salary and per diems. There are many, many ridiculous government programs out there as well whose staff makes a boatload of money on our dime, like a program that teaches certain women how to breast feed their babies. Really? What happened to instincts?

And finally, you are speaking of Ahnold, he was no republican, he is a progressive liberal wearing republicans clothing. An extreme RINO if you will. It's the legislature that makes the laws dude. And our legislature has been firmly controlled by progressive demorats for 35+ years. This states fiscal fiasco is all on them, there is no one else to blame. Ohhh but of course, they will try to blame Bush...

I do know the the difference between capital gains and Income tax. Romney makes all his money from being a venture capitalist and pays just 15% capital gains on his earned income, the solution to that is to rewrite the tax code to make it more fairer to everyone. Next your using the old waste, fraud and abuse argument. I thought that argument went the way of the dodo bird, but since you brought it up and don't like Arnold I got a great story for you. When Arnold was running for governor he used that argument, once he was elected he set up a commitee to find the waste, fraud and abuse. Guess what the commitee came back and told him, THEY COULDN'T FIND ANY. Who's going to be the judge in your perfect republican world of cutting out wasteful programs? I'll let you respond to that one before I bring up the 3 item montra arguments. I like all liberals don't like the health care reform bill being called Oboma care. Can you guess who started calling it that? The answer to that is the tea party, so they have exclusive rights to name calling it's called tit for tat.

[HawgZWylde]

I do know the the difference between capital gains and Income tax. Romney makes all his money from being a venture capitalist and pays just 15% capital gains on his earned income, the solution to that is to rewrite the tax code to make it more fairer to everyone. Next your using the old waste, fraud and abuse argument. I thought that argument went the way of the dodo bird, but since you brought it up and don't like Arnold I got a great story for you. When Arnold was running for governor he used that argument, once he was elected he set up a commitee to find the waste, fraud and abuse. Guess what the commitee came back and told him, THEY COULDN'T FIND ANY. Who's going to be the judge in your perfect republican world of cutting out wasteful programs? I'll let you respond to that one before I bring up the 3 item montra arguments. I like all liberals don't like the health care reform bill being called Oboma care. Can you guess who started calling it that? The answer to that is the tea party, so they have exclusive rights to name calling it's called tit for tat.

When 47.3% of the nation pays NO income tax at all, what's fair? The top 10% of all earners in America pays over 70% of all income taxes. The also pay corporate taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, luxury taxes, capital gains taxes, sales taxes, etc. etc. Plus being employers, they pay workers comp and match unemployment insurance premiums as well. Some even offer health care insurance and match the payments per employee for that as well. And some do pay income taxes. I'll put money on it that Romney pays more taxes in 1 year than you do in 20. He has paid millions upon millions in his working lifetime. So I ask you, what's fair? How about getting that 47.3% to pay at least a token amount into taxes. Perhaps a flat tax where EVERYONE pays something. The "old" waste, fraud, and abuse argument? I gave you one example. Please give me a link to show what you claim is true. I don't buy it. I've already posted about the outrageous salaries, medical care, and pensions that are breaking the governments, hence taxpayers back, but you won't acknowledge it. Obama care is not vile and disgusting like "teabaggers". And please, it's "mantra", not montra. And once again, Ahnold didn't have a leg to stand on when the legislature is completely controlled by progressive demorats. They over ruled anything he even attempted to fix...

BTW, so what if Romney makes his money as a venture capitalist, he still pays millions more than you in taxes. He is successful, something you progressive liberals have mistaken, no renamed, as greed. This is America, the land where EVERYONE has the same shot at success. Some make it, some don't, but the opportunity is there for all to pursue...

[HawgZWylde]

I do know the the difference between capital gains and Income tax. Romney makes all his money from being a venture capitalist and pays just 15% capital gains on his earned income, the solution to that is to rewrite the tax code to make it more fairer to everyone. Next your using the old waste, fraud and abuse argument. I thought that argument went the way of the dodo bird, but since you brought it up and don't like Arnold I got a great story for you. When Arnold was running for governor he used that argument, once he was elected he set up a commitee to find the waste, fraud and abuse. Guess what the commitee came back and told him, THEY COULDN'T FIND ANY. Who's going to be the judge in your perfect republican world of cutting out wasteful programs? I'll let you respond to that one before I bring up the 3 item montra arguments. I like all liberals don't like the health care reform bill being called Oboma care. Can you guess who started calling it that? The answer to that is the tea party, so they have exclusive rights to name calling it's called tit for tat.

Want some good examples of waste and fraud, here ya go. I was going to copy and paste it in here, but there is far too much. So here are some links for ya;

http://www.caltax.org/waste/waste_current.html
http://savecalifornia.com/ca-release-3-31-09-taxpayer-revolt-brewing-against-california-legislature.html
http://www.hjta.org/tags/government-waste
http://membership.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10122

Some of these are outdated, and spending has INCREASED since these were published...

[CL SmooV]

Hawg.....I agree with you-- all have the same shot at success and wealth (as long as its done with ethical and moral compassing IMO).

But, I am sure that California’s severe deficit can’t be blamed on one lone political party. Both parties are to blame if you ask me--and voters too. CA's financial crisis began when voters passed prop. 13. CA lost TONS of revenue because of it, contributing to the mess we have to live in today. Then, in the 90's when silicon boosted tech-stock earnings and revenue, it looked like CA could coast on cruise control--WRONG. Instead of reduced spending or increase taxes, legislators just pocketed our tax dollars-- both lefties and righties-- and were reluctant to work together on any form of sacrifice, due to whatever ideological stance they believed was best for the state. With more spending and borrowing more money than it could afford by CA (a practice left alone by most states by 2004) CA and ALL its legislators sought a remedy less, and sat back and got paid more-- leaving CA residents in the crosshairs of it all.

Shame on both sides of the divide-- and voters too if you look at things under a lens.

[laserbrn]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^Here's this nonsense, bullsh!t argument again. It's only been ONE side in California. A little food for thought....last time the Republicans held both parties of the legislature in California was 1958!

Since 1958 the GOP has held the State Assembly just twiceand only for 2 years each time, 1969/70 and 1995/96. Interestingly the GOP held both houses from 1891 to 1958....kind of before things went to **** huh?

The reason they came back and said they couldn't find any waste is because they weren't looking very hard. We all know where the money goes...the question is whether someone has the balls to fix it. State employees are overpaid and over represented. I have a friend that gets paid $35/hr to set cones on the freeway. That doesn't include the ludicrous overtime absuses that push that number up towards $50.00/hr. It takes 1 hour to set the cones out and setup a detour, then he sits in the truck and waits with his entire crew while the workers do their work and 8-10 hours later they clean it up. All told it's a 12 hour day at a cost to the taxpayers and that doesn't include retirement plans, full benefits, etc. It's stupidity and they only way to get that job???? You gotta know somebody. I didn't have to LOOK for waste, it's BLATANTLY obvious if you simply exist.

Stop trying to play it as though BOTH parties are to blame when this example in California is SOOOOOO obviously one sided. Shame not on both sides, shame on YOU.

[aperez3523]

Just got back from Ohio visiting a friend...fished almost everyday and one big diff. there from here...FREE! County Park,State Park every park free entrance.could fish all nite long at a few of the parks also.

I find it amazing how this ^^^^^^^


^^^^^^^^^^^^^Here's this nonsense, bullsh!t argument again. It's only been ONE side in California. A little food for thought....last time the Republicans held both parties of the legislature in California was 1958!

Since 1958 the GOP has held the State Assembly just twiceand only for 2 years each time, 1969/70 and 1995/96. Interestingly the GOP held both houses from 1891 to 1958....kind of before things went to **** huh?

The reason they came back and said they couldn't find any waste is because they weren't looking very hard. We all know where the money goes...the question is whether someone has the balls to fix it. State employees are overpaid and over represented. I have a friend that gets paid $35/hr to set cones on the freeway. That doesn't include the ludicrous overtime absuses that push that number up towards $50.00/hr. It takes 1 hour to set the cones out and setup a detour, then he sits in the truck and waits with his entire crew while the workers do their work and 8-10 hours later they clean it up. All told it's a 12 hour day at a cost to the taxpayers and that doesn't include retirement plans, full benefits, etc. It's stupidity and they only way to get that job???? You gotta know somebody. I didn't have to LOOK for waste, it's BLATANTLY obvious if you simply exist.

Stop trying to play it as though BOTH parties are to blame when this example in California is SOOOOOO obviously one sided. Shame not on both sides, shame on YOU.

Turned into this ^^^^^^^

[fishandhunt]

Hahahahahahaha!!!!

[laserbrn]

I find it amazing how this ^^^^^^^



Turned into this ^^^^^^^

It's what happens when everyday working people get tired of hearing the same misnomers repeated over and over. This is the reason we can't get moving forward and it's the reason that we have to pay $25.00 to launch our boats anywhere. I know how people hate facts, but the fact is that this nonsense killed the 9th largest economy in the world. The hunger that people are feeling, the lack of jobs, the slash and burn on services, it's not caused by the radical right in California, that's flat out nonsense. This state leans radically to the left and to somehow still try to claim somehow it's up in the air as to who is to blame??? What the?

At least the argument that we just haven't gone far enough left yet doesn't require that you mislead and try to act as if there's some question as to who has predominantly run the gov't in the state of California. It's not even in question and somehow people still try to lie about it. It's absolutely ludicrous. I don't care if you are a republican or a democrat, but it bothers me when you can't even be objective enough to sit back and say that the state has been run by the liberals for the last 50 years. Our tax rates are extremely high (although a few people on this thread seem to think we all need to pay more taxes), our services are slashed and the business' have been run out of California as it's not a business friendly state. These are FACTS. This part is not an opinion and when you just make **** up and say it's the other way around, you are only trying to muddy the water, not find a solution.

I enjoy decent liberal arguments of which there are many. But flat out lying....I'll call your bullshit.

This is bullshit....


The republicans are nothing more then a bunch of tightwads. They say government is to big and too expensive so cut cut cut is their motto. The only thing the republicans actually believe in spending money on is, something to force the conformity of people police, prisons and the military. This is not a knock of our brave soliders serving our country, this is a knock of the new republican party lead by the tea bagers.


If you want solutions listen to the governor and vote in November. The people have two choices, raise tax's and try to keep the government spending close to what people are use to seeing. Or don't approve the governors tax increase request and watch the government programs get slashed. The first and biggest one is education, I think their talking about cutting the school year by TWO WEEKS. So go ahead and vote republican ideas in and see what kind of society the common man gets. Oh the rich don't have to worry about anything they keep getting richer and the republicans will have their back.



Oh I got to address a few of your points. I don't think I name called anyone and as far as being uneducated, If got an MBA degree what do you got? Next point, Warren Buffet does care about the little guy, he said "his secretary pays a higher percent in tax's then he does and that's WRONG and that should be corrected". As far as rhetoric goes the republicans are the worst Iv'e ever seen. They keep talking about their 3 item montra, lower tax's, reduce the size of government and reduce governmental regulation and all will be well.(BS) As for fear mongering, what do you think is going to happen when the governor say's "the people have spoken I must now cut services." What you were serious! Can't you do smoke and mirror tricks like our last rebublican governor did? I am eagerly waiting for your response.



Oh puh-leeze! Vote republican and you will pay to fish EVERYWHERE, plus they'll probably close the fish hatcheries too (guvment waste!)



But, I am sure that California’s severe deficit can’t be blamed on one lone political party. Both parties are to blame if you ask me--and voters too. CA's financial crisis began when voters passed prop. 13.

[CL SmooV]

Laser-- first, this debate has been cooked for years now. No one has to lie on issues when scholars provide reason to why CA and the nation is suffering. I define myself as neither left or right affiliated. Personally, i feel no one in America lives by one ideology alone, if they say so I'm sure hypocrisy is hiding in their closet.

You speak of a "solution"-- which is great. I work on solutions everyday through my nonprofit, with both left and right wingers who are done pointing fingers and are "truly" geared toward making CA a golden state again.

I am an SC alum who works side by side with the purist of right wing thinkers. I collaborate with them through our alumni association meetings and functions monthly. I guarantee if you came with this argument that dem's destroyed CA alone they would ask you politely to quit it. I don't recall anyone saying CA was not a blue state-- just that CA got dug in the ground by both sides. That was my interpretation, but perhaps I will go check others comments.

If you really want to be apart of the solution, toss me a PM. Believe it or not there are some donkeys and elephants out there doing things together in harmony, without the influence of "career politicians" or fox news and CNN.

Last item, does CA need 2/3 house vote to allow bills to pass? Anyone?

[cutbait]

Hey Etuck,,,

Your Governors little plan on having Californians voting for or against taxes this November is the biggest copvout in California Governors history..

Since when do we elect leaders (governors) to pass the tough decisions on down to the people? So either way Moonbeam can say, wasn't my fault! The people spoke!..

The people did speak, he was elected. Its time for him to make the tough decisions as Governors should. Quit being a cop-out and man up..

[CL SmooV]

Oh, one more item, on prop 13-- most conservatives in CA voted for this measure despite being warned about the long term repercussions to CA's economy. I say "most", not all. All dem's however supported it, that I am sure.

[CL SmooV]

Hey Etuck,,,

Your Governors little plan on having Californians voting for or against taxes this November is the biggest copvout in California Governors history..

Since when do we elect leaders (governors) to pass the tough decisions on down to the people? So either way Moonbeam can say, wasn't my fault! The people spoke!..

The people did speak, he was elected. Its time for him to make the tough decisions as Governors should. Quit being a cop-out and man up..

Cutty-- 100% true.......the gov has cowardly tactics.

[DarkShadow]

I define myself as neither left or right affiliated. Personally, i feel no one in America lives by one ideology alone, if they say so I'm sure hypocrisy is hiding in their closet.

I think this is the best comment so far on this thread.

Any person who actually affiliates themselves with one or the other, and refuses to recognize both ideology's shortcomings, have been indoctrinated quite thoroughly, and with every post, it is pretty apparent who these individuals are.

[white belt]

When I was younger, we used to cruise the Puget Sound fishing and crabbing every year. Love it up there, but it's cold and wet, a lot...

My uncle lives up there and use to take us fishing at pugent when I was a kid. Steelhead and dogfish all day haha fun times. I dont mind the cold... I'd rather throw on a sweater then sit around butt naked and sweating hahahaha know what I mean?

[etucker1959]

When 47.3% of the nation pays NO income tax at all, what's fair? The top 10% of all earners in America pays over 70% of all income taxes. The also pay corporate taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, luxury taxes, capital gains taxes, sales taxes, etc. etc. Plus being employers, they pay workers comp and match unemployment insurance premiums as well. Some even offer health care insurance and match the payments per employee for that as well. And some do pay income taxes. I'll put money on it that Romney pays more taxes in 1 year than you do in 20. He has paid millions upon millions in his working lifetime. So I ask you, what's fair? How about getting that 47.3% to pay at least a token amount into taxes. Perhaps a flat tax where EVERYONE pays something. The "old" waste, fraud, and abuse argument? I gave you one example. Please give me a link to show what you claim is true. I don't buy it. I've already posted about the outrageous salaries, medical care, and pensions that are breaking the governments, hence taxpayers back, but you won't acknowledge it. Obama care is not vile and disgusting like "teabaggers". And please, it's "mantra", not montra. And once again, Ahnold didn't have a leg to stand on when the legislature is completely controlled by progressive demorats. They over ruled anything he even attempted to fix...

BTW, so what if Romney makes his money as a venture capitalist, he still pays millions more than you in taxes. He is successful, something you progressive liberals have mistaken, no renamed, as greed. This is America, the land where EVERYONE has the same shot at success. Some make it, some don't, but the opportunity is there for all to pursue...

I'm done giving the liberal vs conserative arguments. Let's talk about practical solutions to are country's economic woes. I'll give you a hint my solutions are completly radical. I'll let you go first if you don't mind. Before you do, I will say you are a worthy opponent. This next part of the debate will seperate the MEN FROM THE BOYS.

[ghost2uu]

Kinda like....

35569

[etucker1959]

I find it amazing how this ^^^^^^^



Turned into this ^^^^^^^

That's a really good point. The reason these threads are so popular, we all have something to say BUT BUT BUT theses threads are safe. What do you mean safe. This is a fishing forum but how much information do people really give out about their catches. When was the last time someone went to a park lake and caught four bass all 5-7 lbs and explained everything. HOW BOUT NEVER!!!!!

[smokehound]

Kinda like....

35569Indubitably.

[etucker1959]

I think this is the best comment so far on this thread.

Any person who actually affiliates themselves with one or the other, and refuses to recognize both ideology's shortcomings, have been indoctrinated quite thoroughly, and with every post, it is pretty apparent who these individuals are.

If you are referring to me, I've got a little surprise comming in the way of solutions. I feel neither party ideology's will lead to a practical solution in fixing the country's economic woes.

[etucker1959]

It's what happens when everyday working people get tired of hearing the same misnomers repeated over and over. This is the reason we can't get moving forward and it's the reason that we have to pay $25.00 to launch our boats anywhere. I know how people hate facts, but the fact is that this nonsense killed the 9th largest economy in the world. The hunger that people are feeling, the lack of jobs, the slash and burn on services, it's not caused by the radical right in California, that's flat out nonsense. This state leans radically to the left and to somehow still try to claim somehow it's up in the air as to who is to blame??? What the?
At least the argument that we just haven't gone far enough left yet doesn't require that you mislead and try to act as if there's some question as to who has predominantly run the gov't in the state of California. It's not even in question and somehow people still try to lie about it. It's absolutely ludicrous. I don't care if you are a republican or a democrat, but it bothers me when you can't even be objective enough to sit back and say that the state has been run by the liberals for the last 50 years. Our tax rates are extremely high (although a few people on this thread seem to think we all need to pay more taxes), our services are slashed and the business' have been run out of California as it's not a business friendly state. These are FACTS. This part is not an opinion and when you just make **** up and say it's the other way around, you are only trying to muddy the water, not find a solution.

I enjoy decent liberal arguments of which there are many. But flat out lying....I'll call your bullshit.

This is bullshit....

I read everything you wrote very carefully and I agree with 100% of what you wrote. But if you don't mind me asking, what part of what I wrote did you find to be BS. I did make a composite of republicans on both the national level and the state level.

[laserbrn]

That's really the only issue I take with what you've said. The topic was about California state politics and you've tried to peg California's woes on the republican party. I agree that no one (except lyin' *** politicians) are right or left, republican or democrat 100%. I actually find it comical that some people try.

Republican: "I am for limited gov't"
"We need controls on what women do with their own bodies"
"We need stronger military and police"

Democrat: "I am for expanding the gov't and expanding services to all of those in need"
"We need to siphon the funds for services from those that need and use them by overpaying any employee working for the state and promising them millions of dollars each in the future"

Everybody contradicts themselves. If you can align yourself with either party you are a different individual then me. I don't even understand how these people get elected with all of this *** backwards nonsensical rhetoric. It's like religion, it all falls apart if you try to apply any kind of rational logic to it. Everybody's moving backwards and making the same arguments they've been making for the past 100 years.

American politics really changed about a hundred years ago. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. Look at speeches written prior to 1910 by our previous presidents. They all wanted speak of the society, the system for which they were forming or reforming gov't. The idea was ensure the integrity of our system so that our way of life could benefit generations into the future and they would have the protection of said system.

Today it's all about today. It's all about sacrificing, modifying, transforming, progressively altering, and changing the system not for the better good of a society, but for the promise of a better today or tomorrow. It's not about fulfilling a vision for a system that satisfies the needs of the many while promoting progress and individual freedom long term. The focus is gone and politics has become simply about pandering.

[seal]

It's like religion, it all falls apart if you try to apply any kind of rational logic to it.

Why do you feel the need to start this BS? I feel the same way about those that do not believe, you don't have the answer nobody does, yet.

[Big Bear Legal Eagle]

I hate these political exchanges here because they are usually initiated by some arrogant, ignorant Right Wing clown who complains about government spending, but only when the spending benefits other people. The classic example is the GOTP folks who rely on Social Security, Medicare, government regulation of food, water and environment, drive on public roads, educate their children and grandchildren in public schools, expect operating utilities and garbage services, drive on public highways, expect police, courts and prisons to keep their neighborhoods secure and call government agencies in the event of an emergency. Apparently Government is “wasteful” only when it improves the lives of others.
If the fishing advice on this site was as pedantic and ignorant as the raging of the Right Wing Trolls on this topic, no one would use this site. Unlike etucker1959 who DOES have a foundation to express an informed opinion, the fact that you have an opinion, does not require you to share it. This is particularly when you have no background in business, finance or government other than regurgitating whatever messages your Corporate Overlords have sent you via paid lackeys like Rush, Glen and Sean. Did you know that none of those “messiahs” have finished a year of college?
Expressing opinions that are painfully uninformed may make you feel "smart," but to anyone who has actually had experience in these matters, your opinion is as welcome as someone tossing rocks into a brown trout pool while you are trying to fly-fish. Education must precede intelligent and productive discussion.

[DarkShadow]

I hate these political exchanges here because they are usually initiated by some arrogant, ignorant Right Wing clown who complains about government spending, but only when the spending benefits other people. The classic example is the GOTP folks who rely on Social Security, Medicare, government regulation of food, water and environment, drive on public roads, educate their children and grandchildren in public schools, expect operating utilities and garbage services, drive on public highways, expect police, courts and prisons to keep their neighborhoods secure and call government agencies in the event of an emergency. Apparently Government is “wasteful” only when it improves the lives of others.
If the fishing advice on this site was as pedantic and ignorant as the raging of the Right Wing Trolls on this topic, no one would use this site. Unlike etucker1959 who DOES have a foundation to express an informed opinion, the fact that you have an opinion, does not require you to share it. This is particularly when you have no background in business, finance or government other than regurgitating whatever messages your Corporate Overlords have sent you via paid lackeys like Rush, Glen and Sean. Did you know that none of those “messiahs” have finished a year of college?
Expressing opinions that are painfully uninformed may make you feel "smart," but to anyone who has actually had experience in these matters, your opinion is as welcome as someone tossing rocks into a brown trout pool while you are trying to fly-fish. Education must precede intelligent and productive discussion.

:Cool:

Ouch.

The retorts shall be interesting.

[seal]

I hate these political exchanges here because they are usually initiated by some arrogant, ignorant Right Wing clown who complains about government spending, but only when the spending benefits other people. The classic example is the GOTP folks who rely on Social Security, Medicare, government regulation of food, water and environment, drive on public roads, educate their children and grandchildren in public schools, expect operating utilities and garbage services, drive on public highways, expect police, courts and prisons to keep their neighborhoods secure and call government agencies in the event of an emergency. Apparently Government is “wasteful” only when it improves the lives of others.
If the fishing advice on this site was as pedantic and ignorant as the raging of the Right Wing Trolls on this topic, no one would use this site. Unlike etucker1959 who DOES have a foundation to express an informed opinion, the fact that you have an opinion, does not require you to share it. This is particularly when you have no background in business, finance or government other than regurgitating whatever messages your Corporate Overlords have sent you via paid lackeys like Rush, Glen and Sean. Did you know that none of those “messiahs” have finished a year of college?
Expressing opinions that are painfully uninformed may make you feel "smart," but to anyone who has actually had experience in these matters, your opinion is as welcome as someone tossing rocks into a brown trout pool while you are trying to fly-fish. Education must precede intelligent and productive discussion.

Nice you have now called anyone that has little or no college education moron's that cannot construct an opinion based on information. We all know the ignorant fools cannot communicate an intelligent thought without a college education.

No background in buisness? Hmmmm I think that someone in a certain high political office has very limited real buisness experience, oh but he's ok cause he has that darn college education, damn I wish I was like you should have stayed in school a little longer instead of going to work cause being in the workforce does not lead to any real life experience and education, nope should have stayed in school now I'm just an idiot.

Pedantic wow cool word!

[City Dad]

The title of this thread is really misleading... it's just figurative. Gotta admit I can't tell if I'm disappointed or relieved.

[HawgZWylde]

I hate these political exchanges here because they are usually initiated by some arrogant, ignorant Right Wing clown who complains about government spending, but only when the spending benefits other people. The classic example is the GOTP folks who rely on Social Security, Medicare, government regulation of food, water and environment, drive on public roads, educate their children and grandchildren in public schools, expect operating utilities and garbage services, drive on public highways, expect police, courts and prisons to keep their neighborhoods secure and call government agencies in the event of an emergency. Apparently Government is “wasteful” only when it improves the lives of others.
If the fishing advice on this site was as pedantic and ignorant as the raging of the Right Wing Trolls on this topic, no one would use this site. Unlike etucker1959 who DOES have a foundation to express an informed opinion, the fact that you have an opinion, does not require you to share it. This is particularly when you have no background in business, finance or government other than regurgitating whatever messages your Corporate Overlords have sent you via paid lackeys like Rush, Glen and Sean. Did you know that none of those “messiahs” have finished a year of college?
Expressing opinions that are painfully uninformed may make you feel "smart," but to anyone who has actually had experience in these matters, your opinion is as welcome as someone tossing rocks into a brown trout pool while you are trying to fly-fish. Education must precede intelligent and productive discussion.

Hmm, so if an opinion is different from yours, you are to be ridiculed and discredited huh? Elitist much legal boy? I am educated (not indoctrinated). I graduated from college 3 decades ago and have worked in private enterprise (construction) for over 30 years. For you to ignore the fact that this states current one party system is a failure, and is very close to fiscal collapse, and instead ridicule the opposing ideology shows you yourself are a partisan, and indeed learned your Alinsky well. What are your suggestions legal boy? Oh I know, it's the same as the rest of the progressives here, redistribute those who are successful wealth while nearly 50% of this nations earners pay nothing, right? I thought you progressives were big on fairness. No background in business? Idiot, I've been a small business owner for years. I don't watch or listen to "Rush, Sean, or Glenn". I'm not interested and I don't need to, as I've gone through my life with my eyes wide open, and raised and supported my family WITHOUT any government assistance all the while taking care of my disabled wife. Corporate overlords? Seriously, that comment alone discredits your verbal flatulence, have you checked how much money was donated by Wall Street to your messiah Obama's campaign in the '08 election cycle? Ohh, that doesn't count, right legal boy? Geez, MSNBC much legal boy? By the way, I'm an independent.

As far as eTucker is concerned, my earlier posts stated what is ailing our state, I even posted several links to reputable sites that address the waste and fraud that permeates our government. And I didn't even bring up the illegal alien costs to this state. The only thing he has suggested is blaming prop 13 and republicans for our states fiscal ills, while ignoring everything I posted. That's a straw man argument and it's BS. You know that, and so do I. Then he has the gall to say he is going to "wait" and see what else I have to say and THEN he will put forth his ideas? Lol, really? Lets hear his ideas now, as I already did.

Why not use this forum, it's a "general non fishing' section of this site, remember? That's part of what it's for. You don't have to enter and read it, that's YOUR choice. So get over it. Oh, and I did not "initiate" this thread, the threads author did.

Indeed, your lack of "education", and thorough indoctrination shines quite brightly...

[seal]

By the way, I'm an independent.

Me too. Funny how he and others can categorize all that have a difference of opinion into one neat little Republican, Sean, Rush and Glen package (I'm with you I have no use for those shows!).

[HawgZWylde]

I think this is the best comment so far on this thread.

Any person who actually affiliates themselves with one or the other, and refuses to recognize both ideology's shortcomings, have been indoctrinated quite thoroughly, and with every post, it is pretty apparent who these individuals are.

Okaayy, so then what are your thoughts regarding the high costs of our state government, and the fiscal cesspool it currently resides in?

[laserbrn]

Why do you feel the need to start this BS? I feel the same way about those that do not believe, you don't have the answer nobody does, yet.

I said it's like religion in that you can't apply logic to it. I didn't say religion is wrong, believing is wrong or that I know the answers to how the universe works. If you apply logic to the major religious books of the world, it falls apart. They generally ask that you not and that you have "faith" or "belief", not to analyze and use logic. Again, not an opinion...it falls apart LOGICALLY. That doesn't mean it's true or not...

I don't see how you can "feel the same way about those that do not believe", I haven't expressed how I feel about people who believe. The point was that these politicians attempt to get people to "believe" their tales and it all falls apart if you apply logic. Yes, there are parallels to that in religion, but at least they admit it and their solution is that you simply don't use logic.

[seal]

I said it's like religion in that you can't apply logic to it. I didn't say religion is wrong, believing is wrong or that I know the answers to how the universe works. If you apply logic to the major religious books of the world, it falls apart. They generally ask that you not and that you have "faith" or "belief", not to analyze and use logic. Again, not an opinion...it falls apart LOGICALLY. That doesn't mean it's true or not...

I don't see how you can "feel the same way about those that do not believe", I haven't expressed how I feel about people who believe. The point was that these politicians attempt to get people to "believe" their tales and it all falls apart if you apply logic. Yes, there are parallels to that in religion, but at least they admit it and their solution is that you simply don't use logic.

I understand your analogy and take no offense if that is all it is. I feel the same way about those that do not believe because of how special and complex this world is and to chalk it all up to science to me is a bit of stretch, guess it's all in how you look at it.

[laserbrn]

I hate these political exchanges here because they are usually initiated by some arrogant, ignorant Right Wing clown who complains about government spending, but only when the spending benefits other people. The classic example is the GOTP folks who rely on Social Security, Medicare, government regulation of food, water and environment, drive on public roads, educate their children and grandchildren in public schools, expect operating utilities and garbage services, drive on public highways, expect police, courts and prisons to keep their neighborhoods secure and call government agencies in the event of an emergency. Apparently Government is “wasteful” only when it improves the lives of others.
If the fishing advice on this site was as pedantic and ignorant as the raging of the Right Wing Trolls on this topic, no one would use this site. Unlike etucker1959 who DOES have a foundation to express an informed opinion, the fact that you have an opinion, does not require you to share it. This is particularly when you have no background in business, finance or government other than regurgitating whatever messages your Corporate Overlords have sent you via paid lackeys like Rush, Glen and Sean. Did you know that none of those “messiahs” have finished a year of college?
Expressing opinions that are painfully uninformed may make you feel "smart," but to anyone who has actually had experience in these matters, your opinion is as welcome as someone tossing rocks into a brown trout pool while you are trying to fly-fish. Education must precede intelligent and productive discussion.

^^^^^^^^Vomit^^^^^^^^^^

The question isn't about whether there should be taxation for essential services. The question is about the threshold. Isn't 50% tax enough when we AREN'T receiving the essential services? If you think there's no waste, you're a ******* lemming. The writing is on the wall. LAUSD spends ~$30,000ish (I haven't actually checked for newer numbers since 2010 as they sure try to make it hard to find them) per student per year to educate. With a classroom size on average of 25 students that's a total of $744,500.00 per classroom per year. Explain how you feel there's no waste there? Why when we ask for cuts to education do we always have teachers getting laid off, classrooms getting larger and yet NO ONE IS ACCOUNTABLE for the money that is spent? The claim is the that the right would have us fire teachers, and educate our children less, but the reality is that's the agenda of the left. If you say cut spending, they say "we have to fire teachers". We say, make some cuts, make it more manageable and the irrational response is...we have to cut firefighters and police, ya know, essential services. The entitlements must stay, the unions must be huge and powerful, the employees must be overpaid. Screw the RECIPIENTS of the services, we are in the business of employing.


The teacher at the front of the room is only getting $50,000-$70,000 of that. I don't see new ipads in every classroom every semester. Schools "can't even afford to buy books". Explain where that money goes and maybe you have some kind of argument. Did I mention that their drop out rate in the same period was hovering around 30% (which admittedly is better than the 50% 10 years prior).

It's unrealistic to think that you can somehow increase taxes, increase productivity in the country, promote business and give people jobs when the gov't is not producing anything, spending wildly, and paying employees 3x more than their private sector counterparts. If you think that all gov't employees should have retirement/pension plans, you're nuts. None of them should, it's not the norm anymore and it's not needed to get "competitive" employees to come work in those industries.

I enjoy a good discussion, but this vomit is the kind of bullshit that makes it pointless. You are clearly as misinformed and undereducated as you appear in your post as it as usual it doesn't include any facts, doesn't include any intelligible argument and just an attack on, well, anything you could attempt to attack. Good job...you've convinced the masses with your message, congratulations.

How do you explain with all of the leftists policies in place for the past 60+ years HOW this state has less services available to citizens, a 16 trillion dollar defecit, the economy has SHRUNK, the housing market has collapsed and the number of tired, poor, and hungry have RISEN if the leftist agenda is there to right all of these things? By every performance measure available, CALIFORNIA IS FAILING and it's been lead by one party.

[HawgZWylde]

Me too. Funny how he and others can categorize all that have a difference of opinion into one neat little Republican, Sean, Rush and Glen package (I'm with you I have no use for those shows!).

Exactly Seal. Lol, I'm surprised there wasn't a "blame Bush" section in his diatribe.

Lol, no, I did not agree to everything Bush did, but compared to what's in office now, I do miss him...

[City Dad]

...LAUSD spends ~$30,000ish (I haven't actually checked for newer numbers since 2010 as they sure try to make it hard to find them) per student per year to educate. With a classroom size on average of 25 students...


25 is way low these days. Try 30+. My wife and I have two kids in LAUSD and we are well-versed in the financial challenges faced by out schools. Via intense and extensive hoop-jumping we've gotten our kids into a school that is in better straights than others in the district. The difference is that parents volunteer large amounts of time and contribute no small amount of cash to fund raising. That's why our school can afford the perks like an almost-full-time janitor.
From my point of view, educating our future population has become unimportant to most folks. So brace yourselves... the caregivers of your old age won't know your cathedral from your asthma inhaler.

[laserbrn]

Don't you sit and wonder.......if the spend $30k PER student....where does it go? The argument isn't that are children shouldn't be educated or that we shouldn't as a society provide that education, the problem is that it doesn't make any sense that it would cost so much, but students would receive so little. Don't you think you could do a much better job if someone appropriated you with $30k per student? Do you feel you'd need to cut corners and ask parents to volunteer just so you could afford an "almost full time janitor"?

I hate that if you ask for accountability, you ask for auditing and you ask for an explanation you don't get one. All that we ever get is "raise taxes, or fire teachers, those are the options". Why can't we say, no...we can fire you....and you ....and you ....and everyone else that is responsible for making this work at this cost. This is more than adequate funding and you don't have to be a child hater that doesn't support publicly funded education just because you say enough is enough.

[City Dad]

Don't you sit and wonder.......if the spend $30k PER student....where does it go? The argument isn't that are children shouldn't be educated or that we shouldn't as a society provide that education, the problem is that it doesn't make any sense that it would cost so much, but students would receive so little. Don't you think you could do a much better job if someone appropriated you with $30k per student? Do you feel you'd need to cut corners and ask parents to volunteer just so you could afford an "almost full time janitor"?

I hate that if you ask for accountability, you ask for auditing and you ask for an explanation you don't get one. All that we ever get is "raise taxes, or fire teachers, those are the options". Why can't we say, no...we can fire you....and you ....and you ....and everyone else that is responsible for making this work at this cost. This is more than adequate funding and you don't have to be a child hater that doesn't support publicly funded education just because you say enough is enough.

Figuring how 30k (or whatever the figure currently is) per student is more tricky than it sounds. Beyond the salaries of teachers, nurses, janitors, part-time aides, etc., etc., you have the cost of running the facilities (with could be further sub-divided until one's eyes crossed) not to mention the cost of learning materials, subsidized meals, and on and on and on.

My whole point is that that it's expensive to give our population an education. No way around it.

[laserbrn]

I don't buy that. I know there's costs, I know it can be managed for $30k per student...remember again that's somewhere in the range of $700,000 - $1,000,000 per classroom per year. Unless they make audit information openly available, I'm going to go ahead and assume that's waste and or stealing. We're not saying it's not worth it, or that it's even the wrong amount of $$$$. I'm saying that no one is accountable for it, it's not audited and most of the money doesn't end up anywhere near a student. Lots of facilities all over the country can run for a whole lot less money than we're talking about here.

Figure each school usually has on average about 3000 students, some quite a bit more, but at 3000 students we're talking about an annual budget of 90 million dollars per school. If that's not waste...boy I sure don't know what is, but this is off topic. Education is an example of the wasteful spending. It's a very difficult task to go back to the taxpayers and say "We need more money!" when the numbers are already so staggering. It's not in the interest of the general public anymore, decisions are made in the interest of the unions and employees, not the students, parents and taxpayers.

[DarkShadow]

Okaayy, so then what are your thoughts regarding the high costs of our state government, and the fiscal cesspool it currently resides in?

Much like if Einstein came over to me to ask me about my thoughts about his theory of relativity, I'm not going to pretend that I know what I'm talking about regarding fiscal issues in the state of California, much like many like to do.

What I do know is that with a population of 38 million, there isn't a single social, economic, or political model which can effectively serve the majority, without some people taking issue to those policies. When you consider also, that any model we implement is influenced by national and global factors, seeking a solution on a message board related to fishing, is as productive as trying to find a new string theory inside a message board dedicated to raising chameleons. But, I do see a reason why we can never reach any type of solution or compromise from this thread, as its apparent that some of us, as my previous quote mentions, embrace a 'us versus them' mentality, and the pendulum continues to swing wildly without reaching any proper solution.

But continue the rhetoric. Perhaps you'll change a few minds and soon be elected to a position where your vast education and years of experience can create a viable solution to the problems.

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/9/8/2/8/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif

•

Oh, and before you cherry pick comments, realize that my original comment was not meant to be misconstrued as a "I know the answer to all the problems."

All I'm saying is that the people who DO think they have the answers to all the problems better get on the primary ballot quick.

[City Dad]

... most of the money doesn't end up anywhere near a student. Lots of facilities all over the country can run for a whole lot less money than we're talking about here.

I must admit I agree with you on that point.

have you ever seen "Waiting for Superman"? don't watch it if you are a teacher...

[etucker1959]

Exactly Seal. Lol, I'm surprised there wasn't a "blame Bush" section in his diatribe.

Lol, no, I did not agree to everything Bush did, but compared to what's in office now, I do miss him...
You do!!!!! I would love to see the comparisons of the great things George W. did and the terrible things Obama's done. Start naming them, this is going to be really good!!!!!

[CL SmooV]

Good Things----

Bush's payroll tax cuts and Obama's green light to put a bullet in OBL's skull.

[laserbrn]

Much like if Einstein came over to me to ask me about my thoughts about his theory of relativity, I'm not going to pretend that I know what I'm talking about regarding fiscal issues in the state of California, much like many like to do.

What I do know is that with a population of 38 million, there isn't a single social, economic, or political model which can effectively serve the majority, without some people taking issue to those policies. When you consider also, that any model we implement is influenced by national and global factors, seeking a solution on a message board related to fishing, is as productive as trying to find a new string theory inside a message board dedicated to raising chameleons. But, I do see a reason why we can never reach any type of solution or compromise from this thread, as its apparent that some of us, as my previous quote mentions, embrace a 'us versus them' mentality, and the pendulum continues to swing wildly without reaching any proper solution.

But continue the rhetoric. Perhaps you'll change a few minds and soon be elected to a position where your vast education and years of experience can create a viable solution to the problems.

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/9/8/2/8/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif

•

Oh, and before you cherry pick comments, realize that my original comment was not meant to be misconstrued as a "I know the answer to all the problems."

All I'm saying is that the people who DO think they have the answers to all the problems better get on the primary ballot quick.

I don't think that it's required that you become a politician to become educated in what IS going on with your state, local or federal gov't. It's easy to say "I don't know where the money goes, so I don't know what should be changed", but it makes sense to evaluate the tax levels and look key indicators to come to certain conclusions. The signs that there is waste and abuse in California and all over for that matter are pretty easy to see. Why don't you know more about what the money is spent on and how much is actually needed?

Why is the information not available? It's 2012, not 1922, if you want more money, show us all the books and make a real case. That will never happen.

Here's why...(using the education example again, although it is only an example).

LAUSD Salaries


David Brewer - Superintendent of Schools - Works in the central office -$300,000 /yr

Those making between $200,000-$300,000/yr?

BREWER, DAVID $300,000.00 SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS Central Office Certificated
DAVIS, DONALD $217,692.00 Chief of Staff Central Office Classified
EPHRAIM, RONNI $225,000.00 Dep Chf Acad Ofcr/Prof Lrng&Dev Elem Ed Central Office Certificated
HOLMQUIST, DAVID $229,500.00 CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER Central Office Classified
KENDALL, JAMES $210,996.00 DPTY CHIEF EXEC EXISTING FACIL Central Office Classified
MEDINA, MARIBEL $234,963.84 SPECIAL COUNSEL TO BOARD OF ED Central Office Classified
MEHULA, JOSEPH $232,572.00 CHIEF FACILITIES EXECUTIVE Central Office Classified
REED, KEVIN $248,256.24 GENERAL COUNSEL Central Office Classified
REILLY, MEGAN $221,988.00 CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER Central Office Classified
TORTORICE, ANTHONY $212,724.00 CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER Central Office Classified

The list of employees making over $100,000 /yr? I would list it, but there are currently 3,478 employees working for LAUSD with a salary of > $100,000.00 /yr. That doesn't include their retirement/pensions commitments and they work 9 months out of the year!

This isn't about education children and what it costs, this is about employing people and making sure they live off of the taxpayers to the tune of millions of dollars each in retirement plans and overinflated salaries.

The facts are out there and if you want to pretend that you "can't possibly know" then you're just turning a blind eye to it.

I'm having a hard time finding the information as they do seem to try to muddy the waters as much as possible, but according to a document I found at the LAUSD.NET website they are concerned because there's currently a $452 billion in unfunded pension obligations already. But why reform it right? Take it to the taxpayers and ask them to cough it up? It's unsustainable and it's about time someone stood up and pointed it out and said "We need to change this before the entire system fails".

Nah, this must be happening because the rich aren't paying their fair share right? Reading this thread it would seem that some believe it's because of the radicaly right wing agenda that's been put in place in the state for the past 50 years.

It's foolish to say that people shouldn't have a discussion about the facts because we aren't elected officials. Anyone interested in paying attention to what happens in their society should run for office? We live in a country where the people have been empowered to dictate policy and staying uninformed or supressing discussion because you don't know enough about it is unacceptable.

Now you know some new facts today about education, the waste and what that machine is really about. Take a look at some of the others when you get a chance.

[laserbrn]

You do!!!!! I would love to see the comparisons of the great things George W. did and the terrible things Obama's done. Start naming them, this is going to be really good!!!!!

I can't wait until the day we can all forget about George W. He was the worst president for the republican party ever! You can't try to align all republicans with George W. In most ways, he was a liberal. He increased spending, he started unnecessary wars and increased gov't subsidies. He didn't care about the free market and he didn't care about people's rights or the power of populus. He passed the patriot act which SCREAMS liberal, so while his ticket may have said "republican", damn his politics didn't.

[City Dad]

I can't wait until the day we can all forget about George W. He was the worst president for the republican party ever! You can't try to align all republicans with George W. In most ways, he was a liberal. He increased spending, he started unnecessary wars and increased gov't subsidies. He didn't care about the free market and he didn't care about people's rights or the power of populus. He passed the patriot act which SCREAMS liberal, so while his ticket may have said "republican", damn his politics didn't.


too bad Eisenhower is still dead.

[HawgZWylde]

Much like if Einstein came over to me to ask me about my thoughts about his theory of relativity, I'm not going to pretend that I know what I'm talking about regarding fiscal issues in the state of California, much like many like to do.

What I do know is that with a population of 38 million, there isn't a single social, economic, or political model which can effectively serve the majority, without some people taking issue to those policies. When you consider also, that any model we implement is influenced by national and global factors, seeking a solution on a message board related to fishing, is as productive as trying to find a new string theory inside a message board dedicated to raising chameleons. But, I do see a reason why we can never reach any type of solution or compromise from this thread, as its apparent that some of us, as my previous quote mentions, embrace a 'us versus them' mentality, and the pendulum continues to swing wildly without reaching any proper solution.

But continue the rhetoric. Perhaps you'll change a few minds and soon be elected to a position where your vast education and years of experience can create a viable solution to the problems.

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/9/8/2/8/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif

•

Oh, and before you cherry pick comments, realize that my original comment was not meant to be misconstrued as a "I know the answer to all the problems."

All I'm saying is that the people who DO think they have the answers to all the problems better get on the primary ballot quick.

"Oh, and before you cherry pick comments, realize that my original comment was not meant to be misconstrued as a "I know the answer to all the problems."

I did not assume you had answers for anything much less everything DS. I just ask for your thoughts regarding said topic. No one could possibly have the answers for everything. I'm a small business general contractor, not an economist, politician, or God. But is our country on the wrong track? Yes, very much so. Can the system get better, you bet. If it gets any worse, we are all in deep deep doo doo...

"But continue the rhetoric. Perhaps you'll change a few minds and soon be elected to a position where your vast education and years of experience can create a viable solution to the problems."

Rhetoric? Please be more specific. Everything I listed, is based on fact. Vast education? Nope, k-12, 4 years of college, and a lifetime of life and work experience...

[HawgZWylde]

I can't wait until the day we can all forget about George W. He was the worst president for the republican party ever! You can't try to align all republicans with George W. In most ways, he was a liberal. He increased spending, he started unnecessary wars and increased gov't subsidies. He didn't care about the free market and he didn't care about people's rights or the power of populus. He passed the patriot act which SCREAMS liberal, so while his ticket may have said "republican", damn his politics didn't.

Indeed, a "compassionate conservative". Really, just a different name for a progressive...

But, I will give him credit, as our nation was attacked 6 months into his presidency, 3,000 innocent lives were lost. War was declared on America and I believe his actions in Afghanistan were, and are justified. Clinton should be answering for not getting Bin Laden when he was being handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to take him. Iraq should have been handled by the nearly irrelevant, and corrupt UN, but that's for another thread.

Bush also had to contend with 2 of the most devastating and expensive hurricanes in history, Katrina and Rita. And of course, he had to contend with a congressional democrat majority in his final two years. It was that congress that drew up the bailouts.

At 52 months, the nation under his presidency experienced the longest run of job creation in history...

[etucker1959]

Good Things----

Bush's payroll tax cuts and Obama's green light to put a bullet in OBL's skull.

Don't forget the GM bailout. The rebublicans said let it die!

[etucker1959]

Indeed, a "compassionate conservative". Really, just a different name for a progressive...

But, I will give him credit, as our nation was attacked 6 months into his presidency, 3,000 innocent lives were lost. War was declared on America and I believe his actions in Afghanistan were, and are justified. Clinton should be answering for not getting Bin Laden when he was being handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to take him. Iraq should have been handled by the nearly irrelevant, and corrupt UN, but that's for another thread.

Bush also had to contend with 2 of the most devastating and expensive hurricanes in history, Katrina and Rita. And of course, he had to contend with a congressional democrat majority in his final two years. It was that congress that drew up the bailouts.

At 52 months, the nation under his presidency experienced the longest run of job creation in history...

Since Jimmy Carter all presidents have said, "human rights abuse should not be tolerated in any country." The treatment of prisoners in Gizmo bay was a border line act of a WAR CRIMINAL. Speaking of Katrina, did you know that president Bush handling of the situation was one of his most HEAVILY CRITICIZED acts of his entire administration. As for Clinton not getting Bin Landen you watch to much TV. I saw the same program you did, and the very next day I saw Clinton and his people tell how inaccurate that program really was. You also can't defend anything about Bush's war in Iraq, it will probably go down as the USA greatest error of the entire 21 st century. It was also under Bush that TARP was inacted and signed by him. He might have experienced the longest run of job creation, BUT he also had the greatest fall this side of the great depression.

[HawgZWylde]

Since Jimmy Carter all presidents have said, "human rights abuse should not be tolerated in any country." The treatment of prisoners in Gizmo bay was a border line act of a WAR CRIMINAL. Speaking of Katrina, did you know that president Bush handling of the situation was one of his most HEAVILY CRITICIZED acts of his entire administration.

Katrina? sure, I heard the spin. But the facts say governor Kathleen Blanco, who lost her job because of it, dropped the ball on that one. I remember Bush on national tv days before the hurricane hit pleading with people to get out. The governor was to notify the feds when assistance was required, as per law. Feds cannot act until requested. She failed to do so. If I recall, the director of FEMA lost his job as well. But no one, and I mean no one, could have anticipated the magnitude of that disaster. And to blame Bush is just partisan and ridiculous...

GITMO? I don't consider waterboarding torture. Our special ops guys go through it. Hey, they're in tropical paradise, they're given they're Quran, and they get fed everyday. What's not to like about that? These are cold blooded mass killers with no allegiance to nationality, not your average "war criminals". Cry me a river...

[laserbrn]

Indeed, a "compassionate conservative". Really, just a different name for a progressive...

But, I will give him credit, as our nation was attacked 6 months into his presidency, 3,000 innocent lives were lost. War was declared on America and I believe his actions in Afghanistan were, and are justified. Clinton should be answering for not getting Bin Laden when he was being handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to take him. Iraq should have been handled by the nearly irrelevant, and corrupt UN, but that's for another thread.

Bush also had to contend with 2 of the most devastating and expensive hurricanes in history, Katrina and Rita. And of course, he had to contend with a congressional democrat majority in his final two years. It was that congress that drew up the bailouts.

At 52 months, the nation under his presidency experienced the longest run of job creation in history...

Are there aspects of his presidency that are defensible? Yes. But it stands to reason that if you have to list off what you feel are his accomplishments as a reaction to my statement that he hurt the Republican party and wasn't true to the real conservative message and values, then you are obviously feeling those same reprecussions. You've got your responses locked and ready, but nobody is going to remember George W. for any of what you stated. Iraq was a blunder. A huge blunder. Domestically it was a disaster and ultimately led to the election of Obama and diplomatically we took hit to our credibility.

This has nothing to do with why we pay to use services in California anymore. Might even be the most ridiculous example of thread jacking I've seen in awhile, but thanks all for the discussion.

[HawgZWylde]

Since Jimmy Carter all presidents have said, "human rights abuse should not be tolerated in any country." The treatment of prisoners in Gizmo bay was a border line act of a WAR CRIMINAL. Speaking of Katrina, did you know that president Bush handling of the situation was one of his most HEAVILY CRITICIZED acts of his entire administration. As for Clinton not getting Bin Landen you watch to much TV. I saw the same program you did, and the very next day I saw Clinton and his people tell how inaccurate that program really was. You also can't defend anything about Bush's war in Iraq, it will probably go down as the USA greatest error of the entire 21 st century. It was also under Bush that TARP was inacted and signed by him. He might have experienced the longest run of job creation, BUT he also had the greatest fall this side of the great depression.

First, I don't get my info from "watching TV". As Laserbrn stated in another post, this isn't about Bush, it's about Cali. But I will say there is a lot of misinformation about Bush out there and I will leave it for another thread...

[HawgZWylde]

Are there aspects of his presidency that are defensible? Yes. But it stands to reason that if you have to list off what you feel are his accomplishments as a reaction to my statement that he hurt the Republican party and wasn't true to the real conservative message and values, then you are obviously feeling those same reprecussions. You've got your responses locked and ready, but nobody is going to remember George W. for any of what you stated. Iraq was a blunder. A huge blunder. Domestically it was a disaster and ultimately led to the election of Obama and diplomatically we took hit to our credibility.

This has nothing to do with why we pay to use services in California anymore. Might even be the most ridiculous example of thread jacking I've seen in awhile, but thanks all for the discussion.

One, I agreed with you concerning Bush. But I will state there is a lot of misinformation regarding Bush and Iraq, but like I said to eTucker, that's for another thread. Second, about the thread jacking, you're right, but I didn't bring it up, I just responded to it...

[etucker1959]

Absolutely Seal. What the people who don't pay attention don't realize is this upcoming election is perhaps the most important in our nations history. For all that is being propagated to the masses, the true "prize" of this next administration is the supreme court, or the justices themselves more specifically. 3 of them will more than likely retire on the next presidents watch, the current president has already installed 2 progressive liberal justices. If he wins re election, he WILL appoint 3 more. This will not bode well for our nation and it's constitution, as we all know how progressives love to "interpret" it's meanings. Can you imagine the Supreme court behaving, and rendering decisions like the 9th circus (circuit) here in Cali? It would be like a court full of Rose Birds, remember her? Really worrisome thought indeed...
What does this have to do with free fishing at our parks. This is where the tread got jacked.

[DockRat]

If the Dems weren't such sponges and actually worked more I wouldn't be so bitter towards them. Driving though the inner cities seeing all the unemployed EBT folks with
Obama bumper stickers still. They don't want cuts. They want more free money. Lol

Ever notice that so many Dems are anti fishing, MLPA/PETA folks.
Then fishermen vote for them ? :Beat Stick:


:Shocked:73% of Federal inmates consider themselves Democrats.
Save a cell for John Edwards :LOL:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_prison_inmates_are_democrats


This is where the tread got jacked.
This thread would have died on page 2 if it hadn't wandered into schools and Feds.
Great Debates here. Major Props. :Applause:
Not to mention guys like yourself who finally crawl out of your hole and get involved
in discussion besides topics about 1 pound catfish that you target. :LOL:


Kinda interesting,sounds like when I went to visit my friend up north just outside Frisco,San Ramon,every saltwater launch we went to was absolutely free,go figure!
Cya Tuna Vic
San Diego has nice FREE ramps and FREE parking too Vic.

You Libs sure are lucky that this ASSSHOLE didn't get in. OMG.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm154/MsMimi03/FamilyMan.jpghttp://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt69/ingawesternjournalism/john-edwards-love-child-1.jpg

[Which Way Out]

CHANGE is our only HOPE:Wink:

[fshnritchey]

Oh puh-leeze! Vote republican and you will pay to fish EVERYWHERE, plus they'll probably close the fish hatcheries too (guvment waste!)

Uh puh-leeze dumbass its the republicans that back fishing and hunting and its the democrats that spend too much(guvment waste) know your **** before you spew it.

[HawgZWylde]

What does this have to do with free fishing at our parks. This is where the tread got jacked.

Fail. Again, in your lame attempts at discrediting me you fail. This was a RESPONSE to another post. Lol, typical lib, when unable to debate with fact, they resort to ridicule. Besides, the same ideology that ails Cali, is currently in the White House. Until November, no actually January, that is...

[laserbrn]

If you ever get a chance you should do a comparison of Texas vs. California if you want to see the results of right wind vs left wing politics. It's pretty cut and dry.

[etucker1959]

If the Dems weren't such sponges and actually worked more I wouldn't be so bitter towards them. Driving though the inner cities seeing all the unemployed EBT folks with
Obama bumper stickers still. They don't want cuts. They want more free money. Lol

Ever notice that so many Dems are anti fishing, MLPA/PETA folks.
Then fishermen vote for them ? :Beat Stick:


:Shocked:73% of Federal inmates consider themselves Democrats.
Save a cell for John Edwards :LOL:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_prison_inmates_are_democrats


This thread would have died on page 2 if it hadn't wandered into schools and Feds.
Great Debates here. Major Props. :Applause:
Not to mention guys like yourself who finally crawl out of your hole and get involved
in discussion besides topics about 1 pound catfish that you target. :LOL:


San Diego has nice FREE ramps and FREE parking too Vic.

You Libs sure are lucky that this ASSSHOLE didn't get in. OMG.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm154/MsMimi03/FamilyMan.jpghttp://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt69/ingawesternjournalism/john-edwards-love-child-1.jpg
Ouch on the 1lbs catfish slander. Do you know that in the last 10 days, Iv'e had 15 pm from different people asking me for help in catching catfish in the parks. I happily answered everyone of them to the best of my abilities. Most of them were from family's who want to get their children involved in fishing. I got so many thank yous and your the man compliments from this people, that your slander of my hobby makes you look pretty pathetic.

[ben0606]

You really pay 6k a year in property tax on a $240,000 house. That's not right! You better have someone look at that for you. If you noticed in my ranting and raving, I made sure not to offend any of our soliders like yourself for doing your duty in defense of our country. Our country owes you guys alot and this is one of the few area's that both parties can agree on.

Etucker, house was a short sale that was originally $380'000 with melloroos....for 240k this is a mansion. Appreciate the respect towards military but you calling a Marine a soldier....well those are fightin words. Ha ha

Wow this thread is long, I thought it was complaining about how we can't fish anytime we want and having to pay fees?
well just mix it up who's going fishing tomorrow? I just got told by my wife I don't have to go to my sister in laws co Ed baby shower, whoooo hooooo!

Ben

[fishinjim]

If you want free fishing, you should move to the Serrano water district, we get two free passes to Irvine lake each month.

[DockRat]

Ouch on different people asking me for help in catching their children. I got so many man compliments from this people

I was giving you props for getting off the bench and swinging the bat.
You did good. Just too bad you could not connect with the ball.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/bulletmunchr/Obama.png http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/Eph3Nine/flowchart-1.jpg http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj296/hco12345/fail.gif