Barbless Hook for healthier release - but how much lower hookup rate?

[Ultralight]

Thanks for all those who helped comment on my questions, my two boys had a blast in the Sierras. Caught and released many a trout. Went way better than expected so we are very grateful.

Question: It bothers us to have trout gut hooked (lots of bleeding and tearing) so we went to jigs and are happy to report that they are mostly caught on the lip. Much healthier release. However, a few are still hard to release due to the barb on the hook. And some still get gut hooked even on jigs.

So, we'd like to release them in even better condition.

Question: If we use barbless hook (or mash down the barbs) how much lower landing rate can we expect? Just a ball part figure. My boys have good technique and keep constant tension on the line so I assume the landing rate should be basically unchanged. However, I figure that's not true or they would not make hooks with barbs.

Thanks for any help. This is an important question for us as I've talked to my boys quite a bit about honoring their stewardship of nature and need to place a high value on being good stewards, including the fish they catch etc.

Thanks in advance for any help.

UL

[Matt44]

Just keep your rod tip up and don't give them slack and you guys will be fine!

[MexicanPistachio]

I use barbless single egg hooks and lose few if any fish. If i do use bait i make it into a worm and have the hook higher than normal. I also dont do the hook setting dance. The one where people run to their pole, stick it straight up in the air and run back 10 feet.

[Viejo]

Congratulations on teaching your boys the value of stewardship and taking care of our resources. Your observation is correct about the internal damage done with barbed hooks. I fished downstream from some folks fishing with bait this weekend and was amazed at the parade of dying fish that rolled by me after they "C&R'd" them and tossed them back.

With proper tension, you will catch fish all day. We catch fish after fish using only barbless flies in creeks, rivers, lakes and the salt. You can also use a Ketchum Release device that helps to remove the hook quickly and easily without even touching the fish. Those red plastic hook removal devices do more harm then good.

[John Harper]

I've used barbless hooks in saltwater as well as fresh for over 15 years now, have not noticed any difference in hook/loss rate whatsoever.

Of course, I C&R everything (except maybe the occasional brookie or Alpers), so it really does not matter if I have a LDR once in a while.

John

[sierraslam]

Two sets of fisher people go out to catch trout. Group A is the evil family of 3, going out to soak Power Bait and release nothing. Group B has 3 anglers all decked out in there fly fishing costumes ready to release everything. Group A has a good day and all 3 go home with 5 fish each. That's 15 dead trout. Group B, being the River Runs Through it gang, each catch 100 each. If Mortality rates are as low as they can be, at about 6%. That would mean each pro killed 6 fish each. That's a total of 18 dead trout. Not cooked for dinner, just dead. The family of 3 not so evil anymore eh? All that said, catch and release obviously saves fish. Just don't pat yourself on the back so hard you knock the wind out of you the next time you catch and release 100 trout in a day. Something to think about. Good fishin !

[Viejo]

You know, you've used that metaphor before but who the hell catches 300 fish in a day? The last time I read it was when a fellow bragged about catching 140 fish and culled every time he caught a bigger one. This thread is about a father who would like to try and incorporate good values of stewardship and caring for the resource...quite a different scenerio. While I will give you that even the best C&R techniques can also have mortality....they pale in comparison to the use of multiple barbs and gut hooked trout. Your example failed to consider that the folks taking fish also released a bunch so they could continue fishing.

[sierraslam]

Ya. Im outa work for few days and really bored. Not 300, 100. 5% die, = 5 dead fish. Whatever. I'd just say this to be serious for a moment, if you want to release trout, don't use barbed hooks ever. IMO barbed hooks are for catching and keeping, which I do at the roadside lakes. If you keep fishing after 5 fish on the stringer, you are a poacher, should be heavily fined, and loose your fishing license for at least 1 year.

[vortec_cruiser]

My son and I strictly use barbless lures when fishing the Sierras each year. Before each trip I meticulously bend over the barbs on every new lure we have for that outing. The percentage of fish lost because of no barb is less than 10%, but if you landed every fish you hooked, it would take some of the excitement out of fishing. I have found that, when fishing barbless bass plugs, the percentage of lost fish goes up considerably. That's because bass have that uncanny knack for being able to shake loose a plug, and the weight of the plug gives them the leverage to do that. Fishing with a single barbless hook (fly or bait fishing), the percentage of fish lost due to the lack of a barb is very, very low.

[golfish]

It bothers us to have trout gut hooked (lots of bleeding and tearing)



I would not release a fish that was gut hooked.



Two sets of fisher people go out to catch trout. Group A is the evil family of 3, going out to soak Power Bait and release nothing. Group B has 3 anglers all decked out in there fly fishing costumes ready to release everything. Group A has a good day and all 3 go home with 5 fish each. That's 15 dead trout. Group B, being the River Runs Through it gang, each catch 100 each. If Mortality rates are as low as they can be, at about 6%. That would mean each pro killed 6 fish each. That's a total of 18 dead trout. Not cooked for dinner, just dead. The family of 3 not so evil anymore eh? All that said, catch and release obviously saves fish. Just don't pat yourself on the back so hard you knock the wind out of you the next time you catch and release 100 trout in a day. Something to think about. Good fishin !

I would agree but there are many more then just "Two sets"

[City Dad]

My experience has been that landing rate on barbless isn't much different - I loose most of 'em either way. Your kids sound like they are up to snuff, so I wouldn't be too concerned about many fish getting away.

As others have suggested, I'd keep gut-hooked fish if legal to do so.

If you must release a gut-hooked fish consider cutting the line rather than trying to remove the hook. Unless you are a crack surgeon, the damage you stand to do grabbing the fish and poking pliers or a hemostat down it's gullet is going to be far grater than simply snipping the line and letting Time and Mother nature do their work. I think most of us have probably caught a fish or two with hooks or the remains of hooks in them, but I doubt we've caught many that have had a gill-ectomy performed by well-meaning anglers trying to retrieve their gear.

[Big Country]

Be careful when you pinch a barb on a hook...if you happen to be in a barbless section and a dfg guy comes up to you, he will check. He will tell you to stick the hook through your shirt, hat, flannel, beanie, etc and pull it back out. No threads and you are good to go, if so much as 1 thread gets snagged you are issued a $700 citation that may or may not get reduced by the judge after you travel all the way back up here for your court date. Your best bet is to invest in a hook file or use a small dremmel tool to clearly get the barb off.

With that said, fishing barbless is the best way to go if you don't plan on keeping any of the fish and it tests your skills out that much more.

[Ultralight]

Thank you all for the excellent replies. We'll go barbless next time.

As to powerbait and stuff, I'm not concerned about the person who catches 5. My concern is the person who powerbaits and catches 10 or 15 or more and think they are releasing them well after tearing the treble out of the gut . I used to be like that when I started fishing, not knowing any better. We got so good with powerbait that my boys won a number of derbies. At that point, we quit in part because it was no longer interesting but also in part because we realize it killed too many trout. What REALLY troubled me deeply is my showing a good friend how to powerbait well and then seeing him take home more than the limit even after I mentioned my concern. That really bothered me beyond words as I felt responsible for enabling my friend to do so. My boys noticed that and we had to debrief as to why they must never do that so in all, a good learning lesson.

Thanks again for all your help. What a great forum!
UL

[cjschock]

If you are going to bait fish I don't think it matters. A gut hooked trout is a dead trout. If you want to use bait then keep your fish. If you want to c and r then use flies or tube jigs. My experience is those usually lip hook the stockers. It is also just as important to minimize fish handling and wet your hands before you touch them. If any one is interested, red rock tackle on the web sells a large selection of barbless hooks and lures.

[Viejo]

Ultralight-
You started a thread that asked a legitimate question and provided some good information on fish handling and ethics. Reading your posts makes it easy to see that you are a Dad that is providing his children with a solid foundation in the sport and they will grow up emulating what you have taught them and still have a great time while doing it. You set a good example.

[golfish]

Ultralight-
You started a thread that asked a legitimate question and provided some good information on fish handling and ethics. Reading your posts makes it easy to see that you are a Dad that is providing his children with a solid foundation in the sport and they will grow up emulating what you have taught them and still have a great time while doing it. You set a good example.

Good post...

Ultralight,
I started out gut hooking fish, filling my freezer and then tossing em in the trash 6 months later. The good news is your kids and my kids are being taught the right way... Good stuff

[Ultralight]

Thanks for the encouragement. This has now gone OT away from barbless but obviously I don't mind. Do appreciate the unexpected encouragement. I do realize that this is not just about being careful about our resources, but more importantly a means of continuing to teach character to my boys. The character will stay with them regardless of whether they continue or give up fishing when they grow up. :Smile: I hope they do continue to fish. I was kidding with them on the drive back that someday when I'm 80 with shaky hands, then it will be their turn to help me rig the rod. OK, I'm off the off topic. :LOL:

Thanks again.
UL

[golfish]

I used to midge fish Crowley a lot in the fall. The regs on that lake after 8/1 are barbless, no bait. It was amazing to me how big of a fish you could catch on a tiny midge. These hooks\flies\lures are so small you could fit em inside this happy face :)

Back in the 90's WON used to have a big shin dig out on this lake, "The Double Haul in the Fall" they called it. It started out fun and all but then more and more people got theirs hands in it and really messed things up. It pretty much turned into the "double KILL in the Fall" and the fish that wound up floating were the fish over 18"

I've found that barbless just test your skills a bit and lets you fish all day...and no cleaning fish unless you want too...

Big Country has made a good point, I have never been tested by a DFG ranger but his post is right on.

[RiverWalker]

You are absolutely correct in regards to how the DFG checks barbs. I found out first hand. We were fishing at East Walker River a few seasons ago and 2 guys in plain clothes wearing waders were walking around the bank with a dead trout on a stick, fishing rod in hand, and a night crawler Styrofoam container. They walked up to us and asked how we were doing. We told them whats up and then they offered us their night crawlers because they said that they were leaving. We quickly declined and informed them that this was a C&R special regs area and that only barbless artificial flies and lures could be used. Then these two guys said, "Good answer!" and quickly busted out their DFG badges and demanded to see our hooks and gear. We obliged and explained how we used a grinder on a makita to smooth them down after pinching them. One of them was a big time A hole. The other was pretty cool and complimented us for taking the time to grind the barbs down. The A Hole, kept threatening us by saying, "You know, when I stick these hooks into my shirt and it catches a single thread, I can confiscate your gear and give you a huge fine!" After a many tries and not a single thread snagged, this guy starts to really press hard against the fabric where the barb once was and finally managed to snag a thread a little. His cool partner quickly told us not to worry about it because he knew were made every attempt to be compliant. Needless to say, I lost some respect for the DFG that day. I support and respect their cause greatly but that one guy was a complete jerk! Plus in my opinion, they shouldn't be offering people night crawlers. That's entrapment in my book!



Be careful when you pinch a barb on a hook...if you happen to be in a barbless section and a dfg guy comes up to you, he will check. He will tell you to stick the hook through your shirt, hat, flannel, beanie, etc and pull it back out. No threads and you are good to go, if so much as 1 thread gets snagged you are issued a $700 citation that may or may not get reduced by the judge after you travel all the way back up here for your court date. Your best bet is to invest in a hook file or use a small dremmel tool to clearly get the barb off.

With that said, fishing barbless is the best way to go if you don't plan on keeping any of the fish and it tests your skills out that much more.