15lb Braid/12lb Berkley Mono Uni to Uni knot failure

[Nipple Twister]

I have been using 15lb Spectra braid in my new Daiwa Luna 203 that is now 'bout 2 months old. I was using a 10lb Flouro leader casting LCs, KMs, Krocs but wasn't excited about having that leader hanging from the end of the rod while casting and even less excited about having the knot going thru the eyes so I was just using a swivel in making the connection of the two dissimilar materials. I was later advised to try tying the lure directly to the braid, problem solved.....naaa, not so fast!
I starting having line breaks mostly during casting but almost never related to over-run or anything I could find binding the spool or the line peeling off, possibly the strand was burying itself in the spooled line, dunno. This did lead me to wanting to top-shot the braid with flouro so I peeled off what look to be color faded and I will test/practice tying Uni to Uni, braid to Berkley mono which I already had a roll of. In doing so and doing a pull test the knot would eventually break on the braid side, breaking 15lb braid before the 12lb mono broke????? :Confused: I then peeled off what was left on the spool which has been buried under what was being used and still had its color, tested it with same results.
It was determined that possibly the braid has bad and needed to be replaced but not wanting to put good money after bad I spooled up with the 12lb mono and will go with that until I decide. I like the braid, casted much further and, I thought was tougher then mono, and more of it on the spool. :Neutral: I fished the past couple of days with the mono and it is easier to use like tying, seeing but casting took more concentration to get the same results as braid.
I have attached a couple pics of the knots:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/nippletwister_photos/Fishing/UnitoUniknota.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/nippletwister_photos/Fishing/UnitoUniknotb.jpg

I would be curious as to your opinions on what be going on, I have already been given some convincing possibilities but more heads the better and maybe we all might learn somthin huh? :Envious:

Thx in advance for your thoughts and advice.........:Wink:

[Which Way Out]

I was talking to SWAT member Roy aka Q3fishboy awhile back and he had some braid issues. If I remember right the line was defective and he got it replaced. I'll give him a call and see if he can add to the conversation.

[q3fishboy]

Got a call from bill (which way out) telling me to check out this post. My best guess is there is nothing wrong with your braid, mono, flouro, or any of the lines, nor is there an issue with your knot.

My understanding is that traditional monofilament line ratings are always less than their true breaking point so that one company can say my line of the same test strength is stronger than the same rated line of another company. For example, I believe pline is notorious for this, with their 15lb cxx breaking at an average of like 27lbs or something. On the other hand, I'm guessing because almost all spectra is made by just a couple manufactures, spectra ratings are generally their true breaking strength.

Therefore, my guess is your 12lb mono is probably just literally stronger than your 15lb spectre. In my experience I believe 30lb spectre even breaks commonly before 20lb mono. The lack of any stretch also makes spectre particularly vulnerable.

It should also be noted that the faded line is fine and that spectre is such a dense material no dyes are permanent and all will fade but with no effect on the line. However, spectre is particularly sensitive to frays because of its thin diameter and has fairly low abrasion resistance.

Finally, as far as the case bill mentioned with defective braid, I had a spool of 50lb spectre that was consistently snapping before my 15lb mono topshot. I called the company and was asked to mail in a 25yrd line sample and they replaced the entire spool for me.

Hope this was helpful.

[SP Dan]

Hey John,
I read your thread and then I went to tackletour.com and clicked on "three way premium braided line show down". You should check it out! It talks about "carrier" strength: 4 to 8 strands, color and strength coatings on different spectra braided lines, compares lines to others, the causing of wind knots and snapping off of braided lines during casting as you mentioned and which lines perform better in windy, breezy conditions. Some results: Suffix doesn't do as well in the wind. :Neutral:
It mentions that some braided lines will bury deeper into the line wraps on the spool than others. :Confused:

A lot of the braided line characteristics that q3fishboy had mentioned above are on the mark. :Cool: Thank you q3fishboy for the priceless information!

I found it to be a good read! I makes me think about going to 30# or even 50# Toray's Super Finese or Diawa Samuri (both have 8 carriers). Still thinking....hmmmmm.....jury still out. lol

The site also it mentioned the use of the "Alberto Knot" to tie the fluorocarbon leader (Megabass Dragon Call) to the braided line, with the braided tag end tied back upon it's self with a uni knot. I've never heard of the Alberto Knot, have you?

I hope this was some what helpful. :Rolls Eyes:

That's all I've got! :Cool:

SP Dan <"))><

Okay. here you go. fishingclub.com click on... knot wars. Look for modified Albright virus the Uni and look for just tying the modified Albright, also refered to as Alberto.

It's worth a look, eh?!?? :Wink:

Dan

[Fishnfun]

I don't think your issue is with the knot. But, if you want to try a different knot that is said to be stronger than the uni-uni, see this video on the modified albright knot. Hope you solve your problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R_2xautA1U

[PUDD MASTER BAITER]

as most people who know my love for all braid.when i first started using it i would use a swivle,till i met an old timer who should me a knot that goes right thru the guides,strong and easy to tie.its a simple surgens knot but with three turns.i use it even when tieing 4lb mono to braid for drop shotting.give it a try,and i think you will be impressed.i can put a 8ft leader and it will knot affect your cast as ur lines goes thru the guides.hope this helps,and good luck...

[Psycho_fish'r]

What brand braid are you using? It sounds like your line is defective. It doesn't sound like your knot is the problem, otherwise, your breaks would've happened at the knots. You should try a different brand. I fish braid in all of my reels with a fluorocarbon topshot and never had an issue.

[Cangler]

Superglue your knots

[bassmeister]

as most people who know my love for all braid.when i first started using it i would use a swivle,till i met an old timer who should me a knot that goes right thru the guides,strong and easy to tie.its a simple surgens knot but with three turns.i use it even when tieing 4lb mono to braid for drop shotting.give it a try,and i think you will be impressed.i can put a 8ft leader and it will knot affect your cast as ur lines goes thru the guides.hope this helps,and good luck...

X2 on the Triple surgeons knot, did good with that knot Tuna fishing the last couple of years.

[IN2DEEP]

Give this knot a try- Simple Simon Double Knot
I've been using it on:
30lb. braid to 15 or 20lb. mono
65lb. braid to 40lb. fluoro or mono

http://www.marinews.com/bait-presentation/simple-simon-double/2211/

[vanillagurilla]

the mod albright is the best i believe, i use 20lb powerpro and either 6 or 8lb izor. the problem might also be that the dia. of the braid is no where near that of the mono. you want to try and match line dia. 20lb PP has a dia of 6lb and 30lb has a dia of 8, so that 15 is probly closer to 4lb dia.

[vanillagurilla]

Give this knot a try- Simple Simon Double Knot
I've been using it on:
30lb. braid to 15 or 20lb. mono
65lb. braid to 40lb. fluoro or mono

http://www.marinews.com/bait-presentation/simple-simon-double/2211/

Same knot as the modified albright.

[Nessie Hunter]

????
The pics show Braid that looks a whole lot heavier then 15#??????

Also very thin braid WILL cut mono in a heart beat.
But you say the braid is breaking????
Defective Line, take it back...

Why Red??? Worst color you can use!!!! (Catches fisherman, not fish!!)....
Red is the most visible color in the Spectrum IMO..
When light diminishes the Pigment is still visible as Black!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.

[vanillagurilla]

????
The pics show Braid that looks a whole lot heavier then 15#??????

Also very thin braid WILL cut mono in a heart beat.
But you say the braid is breaking????
Defective Line, take it back...

Why Red??? Worst color you can use!!!! (Catches fisherman, not fish!!)....
Red is the most visible color in the Spectrum IMO..
When light diminishes the Pigment is still visible as Black!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.

x2 go with green.

[Nipple Twister]

WhichWayOut wrote:

I was talking to SWAT member Roy aka Q3fishboy awhile back and he had some braid issues. If I remember right the line was defective and he got it replaced. I'll give him a call and see if he can add to the conversation

WWO, Thanks for getting Roy pointed this way......I knew I was asking the right people....again Thx, huge help.

q3fishboy wrote:

Hope this was helpful.


Bill, Are you kidding, HUGE help. Thank you very much for your input and careful discription of the events you had, clears up a lot of questions......:Wink:


SP Dan
Hey John,
I read your thread and then I went to tackletour.com and clicked on "three way premium braided line show down". You should check it out! It talks about "carrier" strength: 4 to 8 strands, color and strength coatings on different spectra braided lines, compares lines to others, the causing of wind knots and snapping off of braided lines during casting as you mentioned and which lines perform better in windy, breezy conditions. Some results: Suffix doesn't do as well in the wind.
It mentions that some braided lines will bury deeper into the line wraps on the spool than others.

A lot of the braided line characteristics that q3fishboy had mentioned above are on the mark. Thank you q3fishboy for the priceless information!

I found it to be a good read! I makes me think about going to 30# or even 50# Toray's Super Finese or Diawa Samuri (both have 8 carriers). Still thinking....hmmmmm.....jury still out. lol

The site also it mentioned the use of the "Alberto Knot" to tie the fluorocarbon leader (Megabass Dragon Call) to the braided line, with the braided tag end tied back upon it's self with a uni knot. I've never heard of the Alberto Knot, have you?

I hope this was some what helpful.

That's all I've got!

SP Dan <"))><

Okay. here you go. fishingclub.com click on... knot wars. Look for modified Albright virus the Uni and look for just tying the modified Albright, also refered to as Alberto.

It's worth a look, eh?!??

Dan

Dan, Thx for the info, great sites for review and helps make a more educated decision. Hopefully others will gain something from it as well, very cool :Cool:
Because they still seem to all have the breaking issue I will be continuing to use mono until funding allows me to move to the best braid money can yeild. You asked about my use of the swivel, was using it to make my braid/mono connection for leader. Now that I have got to the point of making reliable knots I was moving to top-shotting when this issue presented itself. BTW, got your PM, will be in touch soon.


Fishnfun
I don't think your issue is with the knot. But, if you want to try a different knot that is said to be stronger than the uni-uni, see this video on the modified albright knot. Hope you solve your problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R_2xautA1U

Fishnfun, I guess I should have said breaking "at" the knot. I was guessing because of the location of the break that possibly the mono knot was squeezing the braid causing it to break there? I feel now based on the info from q3fishboy I was overloading the line during the testing and exceeding the design capacity of the braid. Thx again.....


PUDD MASTER BAITER
as most people who know my love for all braid.when i first started using it i would use a swivle,till i met an old timer who should me a knot that goes right thru the guides,strong and easy to tie.its a simple surgens knot but with three turns.i use it even when tieing 4lb mono to braid for drop shotting.give it a try,and i think you will be impressed.i can put a 8ft leader and it will knot affect your cast as ur lines goes thru the guides.hope this helps,and good luck...

PMB, thx for the info, I will be adding that knot to the list, very good info.....:Wink:


Psycho_fish'r
What brand braid are you using? It sounds like your line is defective. It doesn't sound like your knot is the problem, otherwise, your breaks would've happened at the knots. You should try a different brand. I fish braid in all of my reels with a fluorocarbon topshot and never had an issue.

I believe it is P-Line, actually not really sure because it was put on by a shop that offered it for free for buying a new rod the same time, hmmmm. Ahh, the breaks DID happen at the knots so not really sure what you meant. I want to get back to 100% braid because of the casting advantage....we'll see. Thx for commenting...


Cangler
Superglue your knots

Thought about that but now with updated info the knot itself is not the problem....thx


Yesterday, 11:41 AMbassmeister
X2 on the Triple surgeons knot, did good with that knot Tuna fishing the last couple of years.

Yup, adding that to the list of options, thx.......


IN2DEEP
Give this knot a try- Simple Simon Double Knot
I've been using it on:
30lb. braid to 15 or 20lb. mono
65lb. braid to 40lb. fluoro or mono

http://www.marinews.com/bait-present...n-double/2211/

Thx for the site info and the idea, sure glad we got you seasoned guys, no replacement for experience, thx for commenting.....


vanillagurilla
the mod albright is the best i believe, i use 20lb powerpro and either 6 or 8lb izor. the problem might also be that the dia. of the braid is no where near that of the mono. you want to try and match line dia. 20lb PP has a dia of 6lb and 30lb has a dia of 8, so that 15 is probly closer to 4lb dia.

Ahh, kinda confused :Confused: don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the comment but I'll have to think about your exact information in relation to what line your detailing. I don't understand what purpose it would serve to have 4lb mono tied to 15lb braid, dosn't that diminish your overall strenth? thx for commenting....


Nessie Hunter
????
The pics show Braid that looks a whole lot heavier then 15#??????

Also very thin braid WILL cut mono in a heart beat.
But you say the braid is breaking????
Defective Line, take it back...

Why Red??? Worst color you can use!!!! (Catches fisherman, not fish!!)....
Red is the most visible color in the Spectrum IMO..
When light diminishes the Pigment is still visible as Black!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nessie Hunter, Hmm, I don't have the box it came in but thats what they told me, 15lb. The photo is magnified so might appear that way, dunno. :Confused:
Red is what was offered and being somewhat new to surf fishing and it was free I thought being able to see it myself would help me, didn't seem to affect the fish count so........
I think at this point based on the info given I was exceeding the line capacity, thx for the comments.....I think....

[vanillagurilla]

im mearly suggesting using a line thats closer in dia to what you want to use. either got down in size on the mono or up in size on the braid. If you want to use 12-15lb mono use 30lb braid, 6-10lb mono use 20lb braid. remember that braid dosnt stretch so that knot takes ALL the shock and 15lb braid will break before 12lb mono from most mfgs.

[Nipple Twister]

im mearly suggesting using a line thats closer in dia to what you want to use. either got down in size on the mono or up in size on the braid. If you want to use 12-15lb mono use 30lb braid, 6-10lb mono use 20lb braid. remember that braid dosnt stretch so that knot takes ALL the shock and 15lb braid will break before 12lb mono from most mfgs.

....IC, makes perfect sense. Who knew that there were going to be so many options. Thx for getting me straightened out........:Rolls Eyes: My bad......:Wink:
I'm just a dumb plumber, sometimes you gotta beat it in to me....thx man....

[vanillagurilla]

haha i did plumbing for 2 years, now i work at Express Pipe and supply plumbing warehouse... go figure lol.

[Nipple Twister]

:ROFL: too damn funny, small world huh? I have been "twisting nipples" for 30+ yrs now hopefully not too many more years and retire....hmm,fish M-F? NICE! :Big Grin:

Hey, again thx for the info and sorting it out for me........:Wink: