How important is fishing line and is braid overkill for local lakes and small fish?

[LGHT]

Sorry if this is a silly questions, but this is my first freshwater fishing season after fishing salt for several years. I'm learning it's more of an "art" then just finding a patty tossing bait, and pulling in the fish. As a result it's been both frustrating and relaxing at the same time.

For salt water I had a 1000 yard spool of 20lb line for the last 4-5 years and for the life can't recall what it was, but it worked period.

However my boat buddy sold his boat and moved out of state to retire. Since I couldn't image a life without fishing I basically went out and picked up a couple of good spinning reels and rods and put 4lb P line (basic) on one spool and the put 8lb P-line on the spare spool. I basically just switch the spools as needed.. I figured 4lb is light enough for trout and 8 heavy enough for bass / cats.

I didn't want to keep posting in the other thread because it was going off in another direction. I read that I can use 15lb braid and a 5' leader of Flouro.

I have never used braid before, but if I used all braid is that going to be a problem when fishing for different fish on smaller spinning reels?

I have been successful getting trout and cats by casting into the deeper parts of the lake and letting the bait soak. Even with a 5' leader wouldn't the fish still pick up on the braid and be weary of the line?

Also does braid reduce the ability to cast far?

I'm realizing now that the $4.99 basic P-line I have now may be significantly inferior to flouro and I might want to reconsider my options and get better line. I would love to have a good thick heavy line to count on, but the guy at the tackle shop said it's overkill and should never be used unless your going after large fish like sturgeon.

I have a wide open budget and can afford the best, but as a newbie I don't want to fall into the marketing trap and buy gimmick gear either.

[vanillagurilla]

if you want good inexpensive line to buy in bulk go with izor xxx. pline is great, izor is just as good with less cost.

[riverside_angler]

if you are fishing for trout and cats and the occasional bass, line does not matter to you. When you become a serious bass angler (this is where the art is), then everything matters. Additionally, if you are simply throwing bait and allowing it to sit there for a fish to swim by, again, line doesn't matter.

[LGHT]

I'm actually more concearned with catching fish than cost. I have a farily large budget if it means getting a fish oppossed to get skunked I'm willing to spend the money.

[LGHT]

Well I haevn't done a "lot" of bass fishing, but I want to do more and i'll be at Lake San Antonio in a couple of weeks for around 5 days so i'm hoping to get setup for bass. I actually caught a few on worms (by sheer luck) a couple of years ago so I'm a bit confident that the fish are their. It's actually the only place i've ever caught a bass before.

I'm picking up a few lures and want to try and get more. So any suggestions on what line to get would be helpful.

Ohh btw I'll be using a basic spinning reel as well.

[LGHT]

I checked out tackle warehouse and they only have izor xxx in 8lb is that the lowest they sell it in and would that work for bass? If you know of something better for a few bucks more I would rather get that since the line I have now is pretty bad.

[vanillagurilla]

izor and pline are one of the best monos. if the lake is really clear you might want to tie on a floro leader. your local tackle shop should have 6lb izorxxx and i buy it in 2000yd spools most of the time. if you want to experiment with floros i suggest starting with pline floroclear, its a floro coated mono so it casts like mono, has a small diameter which helps in distance/wind/sensitivity and you can just buy a 300yd spool for $10 that should fill 2 spools. i generaly dont fish anything higher than 8lb even in the harbor but i use it as leader.

[Psycho_fish'r]

Why don't you fish straight fluoro if you're willing to spend the money? I fish Seaguar InvizX in my reels. It costs more than twice as much as P-Line fluoro clear (which only has a fluoro coating, not true fluorocarbon line). It is thinner than most mono lines, less stretch, and almost invisible underwater.

[smokehound]

Braid is good when combat-fishing. Like on piers, when it's elbow-to elbow, and everyone's using a bobber with a live sardine :LOL: It's okay to saw through their lines, they were gonna clip yours off anyway!

[LGHT]

Is that the BEST solution? I've been through 2 lines that really kinda where bad and i'm at the point where I just want to get a really good solution and be done with it and move on to the next hurdle.

[LGHT]

Is straight floura a good solution? I'm a total newbie and i'm sure i'm doing everything wrong so I just want to start over and get the best possible line I can so I won't have to wonder if the reason i'm not catching fish is because my line is crap.

[DarkShadow]

Sheesh...where to start.

You mention you've been through "2 lines that really kinda where [sic] bad." NOW, what is meant by 'bad.' Did you have bad knot strength? Casting issues? Did you not like how the line felt? You'd need to define what 'bad' means in order to steer you in the right direction.

Now, I do hope you understand that if this is the first time fishing fluoro, it's gonna feel different from mono, especially on how it flies off a reel on a cast because it's a bit more stiff (unless you spring for some really expensive stuff).

Regarding braid? Personally, because I'd use it for 1% of applications, and the fluoro I use has the same positive properties than braid has, plus doesn't feel like i'm fishing with dental floss, I never have any spooled up. I've used braid to sew on a button a tshirt, but I have rarely thrown it.

If you're just starting in the fresh, I don't think using fluoro versus mono is gonna increase your chances at catching fish, as there are more factors involved than the line you use. Is it important? Sure. Is it important if you're just dipping your toe into freshwater angling? Probably not.

Go with PLine monofilament and stick with that until you are ready to make the jump into exploring possibly expensive lines. Also, unless you're an expert and meticulous knot person, adding any points of weakness to your rig may expose you to potential break offs at leader connections.

•

OH, and "best" is a relative term. There is no "best," but rather would people prefer to use.

[LGHT]

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I did quit a bit of research and reading on the topic this weekend and came to the conclusion that i'm not going to bother with mono ever again.

All the research points toward either braid or flouro due to several benefits over mono.

I'll be fishing lake San Antonio next week for 4 days and by suggestions i'll be tossing various top water baits really early looking for the bass bite. I have caught bass before so hopefully I'll have the same amount of luck again this time. For a top water bass setup I've decided on using 20lb Sufix 832 Braid. I also have a 2nd spool that will use the same line, but I'll tine on a 10lb Sunline FC leader for late night catfish.

I also picked up some Sunline Super FC in 7lb and will be spooling my other 2 reels with that for fishing with fake worms.


What do you guys think?? Since all 3 of my reels have 2 spools I can still pickup different line as needed to see how they fish as well.

[DarkShadow]

Well, not to discount mono completely, I use it specifically to throw topwater.

Braid and topwater? Unless I'm fishing frogs in the real thick, which I rarely do.

Just an FYI, before you discount mono completely.

[LGHT]

Well, not to discount mono completely, I use it specifically to throw topwater.

Braid and topwater? Unless I'm fishing frogs in the real thick, which I rarely do.

Just an FYI, before you discount mono completely.

Yeah I read the comments on how "some" do continue to throw mono for topwater due to it's ability to float better than flouro, but the specific location i'm giong for bass has a lot of brush, logs, things in the water to get snagged on so I wanted something with a bit more strenght and something that would avoid fraying the line. In addition I read that braid last up to 4 times longer than mono as well.

I also read that braid has zero stretch so strikes are a lot more obvious when using it over mono.

Again I'm just going by what I read and several articles, reviews, said there is no real advantage of using mono outside of cost.

Since I am new I'm basically just to get as much help as possible and it just seems like those setups have obvious advantages over traditional mono.

[shy_boxer]

Spool up your reel with braid of your choice and tie on a fluoro leader! However, I would take a look online before you tie on your leader line and learn some good knots. Test it before you fish. I learned the hard way. I didn't test my knot strength before I fished and I lost a few fish due to my knots snapping off at the connection point. I also lost a few lures (LC's) to the surf gods. Doh!!! $$$65 bucks down the drain. So remember to test your knot strength before you fish and you should be good. The benefits of using braid is the added sensitivity with the low visibility of the fluoro leader. All your lure presentations will be optimized by this combination. Of course on some applications you may want to use mono for the stretch factor, so just add a mono leader! Voila, you get the best of both worlds!

[LGHT]

That's exactly what I did this weekend after tossing the old mono line. If you check out the post LINK TO TYING KNOTS POST (http://fishingnetwork.net/forum4/showthread.php?58197-Tying-Knots) It has several links of websites on how to tie knots. To make it simplier I saved all the videos to my laptop and tied my knots at the lake just before I went fishing while watching the videos!

It took a couple of tries, but although I got snagged a few times I was able to break through the snag without loosing the lure. Unfortunetly my biggest catch was only a 2lb bluegill, but wow that thing was huge for a blue gill!

[Fysher]

It's all in your preference.

I would use braid if fishing for bass in thick weed beds and if there's money on the line (Tournaments) because landing is more important than catching.

What small fish will spool you? I wouldn't waste my $$$ on braid if fishing local lakes for fun.

[wackyrigged]

I use mono in all kinds of lbs. test generally 2 for trout 6 for bass 8 for cats 20 for the ocean. I tend to stay away from other line types because of bad experiences i am sure if i shelled out the green for high quality flouros/braids id be satisfied but $5 stren works great for me so why bother.

[Frequent Flyer]

thats a huge bluegill congrats. sounds lik ur getting the hang of it

[LGHT]

I use mono in all kinds of lbs. test generally 2 for trout 6 for bass 8 for cats 20 for the ocean. I tend to stay away from other line types because of bad experiences i am sure if i shelled out the green for high quality flouros/braids id be satisfied but $5 stren works great for me so why bother.

What type of bad expierences did you have?

I loved how my 20lb braid with flouro leader worked for me. Since I was shore fishing in dense weeds and cover it really helped when I got caught up a few times. In the past I lost lures and spent time re-rigging my line which was worth the extra cost and time. I also read braid and flouro last a lot longer so you don't have to re-spool as often. Win Win in my opinion.

Now my light 4lb flouro setup did twist up a few times, so I went online to find out if I was doing something wrong and read that it's a common issue and the best way to resolve the problem is to just allow let all the line out and wind it back in to get rid of the twist. I basically tied a big heavy iron and cast it out pretty far and then just pulled some extran and wound the line back in and didn't have any problems after that.

[DarkShadow]

What type of bad expierences did you have?

I loved how my 20lb braid with flouro leader worked for me. Since I was shore fishing in dense weeds and cover it really helped when I got caught up a few times. In the past I lost lures and spent time re-rigging my line which was worth the extra cost and time. I also read braid and flouro last a lot longer so you don't have to re-spool as often. Win Win in my opinion.

Now my light 4lb flouro setup did twist up a few times, so I went online to find out if I was doing something wrong and read that it's a common issue and the best way to resolve the problem is to just allow let all the line out and wind it back in to get rid of the twist. I basically tied a big heavy iron and cast it out pretty far and then just pulled some extran and wound the line back in and didn't have any problems after that.

1. If you're using a flouro leader, your break strength has nothing to do with the braid. It has to do with the strength of your leader, and your knot. I've never encountered any snag where if I was using braid, I'd get out of. If you snag a boulder, you can have the world's strongest braid, you're not getting it out. Also, don't think I've encountered vegetation thick enough where straight mono/flouro would break, and braid wouldn't. Unless you're tying directly to your bait, I don't get the perception that your line is 'stronger.'

2. EVEN if you tie directly to your bait, if you do get snagged to something that isn't budging, have fun breaking braid off. Hope you have scissors.

3. Not re-spooling as often is a positive, but it's such a minute part of what I take into consideration on what type of line to use. I use backing on most of my reels, so that only 75 yards of flouro get placed, and when I need to re-spool, I only have to respool the top 75 yards.

And regarding the twisting of your 4# flouro...

I don't get how throwing out a big weight and reeling it in tighter got rid of the twist. In essence, all you did was retrieve the twisted line (still twisted) and wound it on tighter to your spool. The trick is to have nothing on the other end while your line is out so that that line UNTWISTS. If you're on a boat, this is accomplished by just letting line loose behind the boat as your are moving forward. By having something tied on on the other end, it doesn't allow any untwisting of your line. All it does it flatten out the loops, but your line is still twisted.

If braid fits you, then you shouldn't change up. Personally, I found it to be not necesary for the type of fishing that I encounter in SoCal.

[LGHT]

1. If you're using a flouro leader, your break strength has nothing to do with the braid. Also, don't think I've encountered vegetation thick enough where straight mono/flouro would break, and braid wouldn't.

Let me clarify actually it's not the "break" strength it's the fact that the line doesn't fray or split like mono so although the line won't break after throwing and retrieving over logs, rocks, weeds, etc etc I think braid is a better fit, but that's my novice opinion since i'm not an expert.

[P.A.W.]

Let me clarify actually it's not the "break" strength it's the fact that the line doesn't fray or split like mono so although the line won't break after throwing and retrieving over logs, rocks, weeds, etc etc I think braid is a better fit, but that's my novice opinion since i'm not an expert.

This is a good observation. If you fish around structure the braid will be less high maintenance. Along with that is the feel. Nothing connects you to the bait like braid. No line is perfect all around. Each has its own good and weak qualities. Last Sunday I pulled a 5lb LMB out of the tulies with baid. It wasn't in front of the tulies, it was back in them. The confidence level that line gives you for that kind of fishing is hard to beat. I like your idea of changing spools ALMOST as much as just carrying a couple different rod/reel setups.

[WARRIORMIKE]

I agree you should try and test a bunch of different lines before you settle to going to one religiously all the time. Me personally I love the co-polymer line by "p-line" It has everything I need for every fishing condition. Strength, abrasion resistant, and most importantly, feel. However on a spinning reel I would really advise you once you spool your reel with mono, tie the end to a tree or pole. With your rod and reel go back about 20yds and stretch that mono almost to breaking point. Then reel back in the line. This will take out some of the memory on the line and you will be able to get some better casting distance on that fresh line too.

Braid is really good on spinning reels too. Personally if the fish are hungry, you will get bit. You may get bit less, but you will feel more and have better control of the fish. I do enjoy fishing braid for more of my "reaction type baits" I think hands down, Power Pro is the best when it comes to fishing braid. If money isn't an object, than thats fishing the "best".

As far as baits, Lucky crafts are awesome tournament winning baits. Price is reasonable and there performance are awesome. My advice on majority of new baits, especially Rapalas, LuckyCrafts, and others, is to replace the hooks. Invest in some split ring pliers and replace the hooks and split rings. Lucky Crafts use low end Daichi hooks and I have broken 2lb bass on the hooks. After I was introduced to Gamakastu EWG hooks I've never had issues with them. Very sticky sharp and are awesome hooks.

Since we are on the subject of hooks, make sure you never get "cutting edge" hooks. Tears the fish up and you will lose more fish than anything. Again Gammys are the best next to Owners. Which ever you prefer test them out and find out which one you prefer yourself


K hope this helps!

[LGHT]

Thanks for all the tips. I still have mono on 2 spools so I'll have to tie the line and stretch it. Since i'm stuck behind a desk all day with hours upon hours of down time I've done quit a bit of reaserch and reading on lines, lures etc etc and the more time I read the more I realize how little I know. I did find a few articles that mentioned co-polymer, but nothing that list the pros / cons of the line like I found on braid, flouro, and mono. I'll have to do some more research and see what I can find and maybe get a small spool to test out. I'm also looking for a good baitcasting reel so maybe i'll setup that new reel with co-polymer.

I did find quit a few reviews and tips on Gamakastu EWG hooks and purchased several packs of worm and weighted hooks, but never even thought about replacing them on the new lures I got what a great tip!! I'll have to look into that as well. It was obsious how much better and sharper the hooks where then other brands.

I'm still amazed how deversed and technical fresh water fishing is in comparrison to ocean fishing. Hopefully all my time and effort will start yielding some good (or any) big fish!

[LGHT]

While doing additional research I found a great "summary" about what line is suggested and when to use it. I will defenitly have to give Co-Polymer a try as it seems to be a mix between the best of both worlds.

CO-POLYMER LINE:
Co-Polymers are blended from different polymer lines that close the gap between monfilament and braided lines. Typically, they have a smaller line diameter and greater density than monofilament and braid. They also stretch less than monofilaments and increase your casting distance. Although they have a higher density, they still perform well with most top-water applications. Due to the lower line stretch, a rod with a more limber action works well with larger baits that give the fish leverage when fighting. The reduced line diameter decrease's the visibility under water so it can be used in clearer water condition's, it allows baits to go deeper, or it allows you to increase the pound test to fish heavier cover.

Applications:

Crankbaits
Shad Raps - 8 pound test
Shallow running, stained water - 16 pound test
Shallow running ,clear water - 15 pound test
Medium running - 12 or 15 pound test
Deep divers - 8 or 10 pound test
Spinnerbaits - 15 or 17 pound test
Finesse - 8 or 10 pound test
Faster sink rate than monofilament
Lower stretch - increased sensitivity
Casts further - copolymers have less fiction in the rod guides
Decreased diameter - allows diving baits to go deeper
Less memory - these lines do not have to be changed out as often due to less line curling

BRAIDED LINE:
Braided lines have come a long way over the last couple of years allowing them to be used in more applications. They have become the workhorse of fishing lines in very dense cover. Typically, braided lines have the largest diameter and in most case no stretch. The zero stretch becomes very important when you choose your rod action (this will be discussed in the next "Back to Basic's"). The most popular application for braided line is fishing dense vegetation. Braided line cuts through the vegetation better than other types of lines. Other applications that are becoming popular are main line for finesse or carolina rigs and crankbaiting.

Appilcations:

Frogs or Buzzbaits, matted grass - 50 or 65 pound test
Flippin', punching grass mats or dense vegetation - 50 or 65 pound test
No stretch - increased sensitivity
Rod action - extra fast tips in dense cover but moderate fast tips with hard baits
High visibility - the larger diameter increases the under water visibility
Any grass cover - these types of lines cut through grass the best
Can be used for backing material - pre-spooling baitcasting reels with braid can help reduce the cost of changing the entire spool of line

FLUOROCARBON LINE:
I saved my favorite for last. Fluorocarbon lines are the most versatile lines on the market. With the exception of top-water applications, they allow you to fish any bait from just below the surface to the bottom in just about any water condition and cover. The line diameter is typically larger than monofilament and they are denser. The denseness of the line allows it to sink faster which hinders the performance of top-water baits. Due to the make up of the line it becomes virtually invisible under water. This allows it to be a top choice for finesse fishing or used for leader material. Fluorocarbons typically have less stretch than monofilaments which again makes the selection of your rod action very important.

Applications:

Carolina Rig leader - 8, 10, or 12 pound test
Jig's
Dock's, brush - 20 or 25 pound test
Football head - 15 or 20 pound test
Finesse - 10 or 12 pound test
Texas Rig - 15 or 20 pound test
Split Shot Rig - 12 pound test
Finesse, Spot Remover - 8 pound test
Drop Shot - 6 or 8 pound test
Lower stretch - moderate fast tip action for hard baits
Virtually invisible - allows higher pound test to be used
Knot selection - I have found the Uni-Knot to work best for me
Sinks faster - not for top-water applications