We will no forget??9/11

[BIG*GAME*HUNTER]

how did you feel when you seen our two towers hit the floor...now they wanna build a mosque right next to the site at ground zero. all though it's next door, i can still remeber this going on the next day.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mosque-plan-clears-hurdle-protests/story?id=10747570

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv4s3fn8jDc

[City Dad]

LOL!!! you are easily the most entertaining member to come along in a while.

PLEASE don't ever stop!;)

(and if this is a total put-on don't let me in on the joke)

[BIG*GAME*HUNTER]

LOL!!! you are easily the most entertaining member to come along in a while.

PLEASE don't ever stop!;)

(and if this is a total put-on don't let me in on the joke)
thanx......

[doorman]

people should watch that at the begining of every day, and remember what those ***** did

[old pudd fisher]

It makes me mad and sad at the same time.

[DockRat]

...now they wanna build a mosque right next to the site at ground zero..
:Finger: To having a Mosque near the site :Finger:
DR

[Which Way Out]

Get a rope !

[City Dad]

:Finger: To having a Mosque near the site :Finger:
DR

Okay, now this is more like it!

So (knock-knock) why not have a mosque near the site?

[fisherman from long beach]

alot of people seem to forget why where over in the middle east.i seen one g.i say he'd rather fight them there then in our backyard.i just dont understand how those peeps can come to america get educated by the best schools,then go back to their country and bash the u.s.idiots if you ask me.

[City Dad]

alot of people seem to forget why where over in the middle east.i seen one g.i say he'd rather fight them there then in our backyard.i just dont understand how those peeps can come to america get educated by the best schools,then go back to their country and bash the u.s.idiots if you ask me.

Why are we in the middle east? That is a pretty good question.

From all that I have heard or read, the individuals who have lived in the U.S. and gone on to commit terrorist acts seem to have actual "mental/social maladjustment issues" or as you and I might say "they are ape-sh** crazy". My theory is this: Here in America there is really no concerted effort by any one group to channel the efforts of our mass murderers into a definite direction. In other portions of the globe however, there are folks who are more than happy to take advantage of their resident psychotics for their own political or monetary benefit.

[DarkShadow]

And that is why I'm pushing for legislation to prevent catholic churches from being erected (no pun intended) anywhere near areas where children are present.

[City Dad]

And that is why I'm pushing for legislation to prevent catholic churches from being erected (no pun intended) anywhere near areas where children are present.

Zing! he's back, rested and ready, folks!

[sansou]

Salam wa aleikum fellow anglers,

You make a valid observation City Dad. Interestingly, the mass murderers we do have tend not to be willing to martyr themselves for a perceived national cause. I cannot think of a singular example. (Of course, when the dialectic is couched in religious terms such as "religious fanatic" (viz the secular mass murderer), one finds even less western examples). One could cynically argue that if your religion grows beyond the scope of being considered a mere cult, and were to direct and perform these same acts of destruction, would this qualify as an act of war or terrorism? (if you want some good old fashion message board censorship feel free to plug in Arafat's famous quote, or use the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombingsas as examples!)

Is it western society's karmic fate to suffer the same religious fanaticism we doled upon the muslims in the crusades? (I use the buddhist term "karma", so Californians can understand what I am saying.)

On a side note, does it feel like uber-patriotism has become the new mainstream religion in America?

To answer BGH: My biggest concern in putting a mosque right next to the site, is the strong possibility that it will be a particularly strong magnet for hate crimes, with the actions of the few putting the nation as a whole in bad light.

[Hoshnasi]

Salam wa aleikum fellow anglers,

You make a valid observation City Dad. Interestingly, the mass murderers we do have tend not to be willing to martyr themselves for a perceived national cause. I cannot think of a singular example. (Of course, when the dialectic is couched in religious terms such as "religious fanatic" (viz the secular mass murderer), one finds even less western examples). One could cynically argue that if your religion grows beyond the scope of being considered a mere cult, and were to direct and perform these same acts of destruction, would this qualify as an act of war or terrorism? (if you want some good old fashion message board censorship feel free to plug in Arafat's famous quote, or use the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombingsas as examples!)

Is it western society's karmic fate to suffer the same religious fanaticism we doled upon the muslims in the crusades? (I use the buddhist term "karma", so Californians can understand what I am saying.)

On a side note, does it feel like uber-patriotism has become the new mainstream religion in America?

To answer BGH: My biggest concern in putting a mosque right next to the site, is the strong possibility that it will be a particularly strong magnet for hate crimes, with the actions of the few putting the nation as a whole in bad light.

Heaven help me I'm getting sucked in again :)

Although it is more of a question than anything else. Why are the crusades brought up so often to find a parallel to actions of Muslim extremists today? Second why are they used so often when questioning America's beef with Muslim terrorists? In most part crusades were horrible, but the last major offensive (which was thwarted) was in 1291 during the end of the dark ages. Trying to draw a parallel to post-dark age western Europe to culturally diverse American in 2010 seems rather naive, or an attempt to find moral equivalence.

Sansou, I'm not saying you were making that point, but I’m curious on your opinion.

I agree 100% on the danger TOO the mosque if it erected next to ground zero.

[breeze71]

Okay, now this is more like it!

So (knock-knock) why not have a mosque near the site?


...cause there are way too many churches in that area?

...wait we are talking about religion right?

[City Dad]

Sansou, you bring up a good point about presenting a target for hate crimes... but if they did build this mosque at the old WTC site, think of what it would do for the sales of liquor, spray-paint and t-shirts with angry eagles on them... see, I'm always looking for the silver lining in things...

and oh, yeah, your apparent feelings of guilt over the Crusades... is that a French thing?

[sansou]

Heaven help me I'm getting sucked in again :)

Although it is more of a question than anything else. Why are the crusades brought up so often to find a parallel to actions of Muslim extremists today? Second why are they used so often when questioning America's beef with Muslim terrorists? In most part crusades were horrible, but the last major offensive (which was thwarted) was in 1291 during the end of the dark ages. Trying to draw a parallel to post-dark age western Europe to culturally diverse American in 2010 seems rather naive, or an attempt to find moral equivalence.

Sansou, I'm not saying you were making that point, but I’m curious on your opinion.

I agree 100% on the danger TOO the mosque if it erected next to ground zero.

Hoshnasi,

You really don't want what I really think. That costs money. :LOL: What i will give you gratis are afternoon ramblings:

I don't think it is really all that naive, for the sake of entertaining a discursive from 9/11 to crusades, to draw historically relevant religious wars. My best evidence for that is simply to point you to any given fatwa in which invariably westerners are referred to as crusaders.

While we westerners do not like to draw reference to the crusades (other than GW Bush who used the term "crusades" 5 days after the 9/11 bombing), the fundamental islamists certainly do. Vestigial remnants of modern colonialism, still fresh in many muslim countries and/or islamic governed countries are still a sore point. I know it was when I lived in Algeria. Whether or not their (extremists) argument holds water is a different story.

Moral equivalence? I certainly am not condoning the 9/11 tragedies in light of the crusades. Just engaging in a little amateur descriptive relativism.

Though.....a polemic argument could be made that America is simply receiving the result of years of fostering and supporting($) religious extremism (example: Afghan Jihadism). It telegraphs the message that extremism is "ok" if it suits American political needs. When our own leaders proclaim "you're either with us, or with the terrorists", certainly galvanizes the camps in to christian versus islam, even though a secular rhetoric is employed. I've even seen people wear t-shirts with that slogan...but we probably wouldn't label them a religious "fanatic".

Just some thoughts.

Breeze: Infidel! Then again you may be on to something, however, we wouldn't be where we are without religion. But that is the subject of a long discussion best argued inebriated.

City Dad: Les Croisades! You gotta admit some of the more badazz popes were French. Represent! Thats how we do homie!

[wellbilldancesays]

That is the problem with alot of religions. The more sincere a group is about their religion the more dangerous it becomes. The crusades of christianity and the "extreme" muslims of today were and are very sincere. If christians in this country were as sincere, as the "extreme/ sincere" muslims over seas they would be just as hateful and violent. Good thing for us in America today is that most christians are of the Joel Osteen variety, pumping the "feel good" aspects of the bible and completly ignoring its hate filled messages.

As far as the mosque next to the WTC they have every right if they own the land, like others though I worry about the mosque itself being attacked and the negative impact on the US from the rest of the world.

[Hometown]

Every time I think about that trajic day first I want to cry then I want to kick some XOO may those that lost there life RIP

[breeze71]

Hoshnasi,

Breeze: Infidel! Then again you may be on to something, however, we wouldn't be where we are without religion. But that is the subject of a long discussion best argued inebriated.

City Dad: Les Croisades! You gotta admit some of the more badazz popes were French. Represent! Thats how we do homie!

True! But we may have been "united on one earth."

[smokehound]

Muslim,Jew,Christian/catholic,etc.

all the same. Well except for Buddhism, which is just a fancy term for laziness.

Norway-- Largely Atheist, one of the safest places on earth. Just sayin..