Outboard Motor Questions?

[TaperSteve]

I have been watching Craigs List for an outboard motor. I own a 12 aluminum boat. What is the difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke other than your score in a game of golf? Also, how many HP should I be looking for? I know the motors on the rental boats at alot of the lakes are 4HP. Id like something maybe alittle more powerful. I was thinking 8HP-15HP. Would that be too much? Are there any advantages/dis-advantages on a bigger or smaller HP motor like weight, size? Any brand you would suggest or advise against? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx.

TaperSteve

[Frenchy]

2 stoke you have to mix oil w the gas and 4 stroke you dont
i would think anywhere between 8 and 15 would be perfect
boat should have a max hp rating on it look for it and it will tell you dont want motor to be too heavey

some lakes dont allow 2 stoke either

[Kevman]

Steve-

What is your budget and how fast do you want to go? That will largely determine what options are good for you.

You want a short shaft motor for your boat. Pull start is fine. Electric start is a nice luxury if you plan to carry a battery with you. Absolutely positively make sure you cold start the motor and run it and check for a strong piss stream before you make your purchase. While at idle speed, shift the motor and make sure it shifts smoothly. Make sure the seller includes a good gas tank and fuel hose with fuel primer bulb. You'll be surprised how much gas tanks and fuel hoses cost new. Also make sure you ask the seller if the motor has ever been run in salt water, and if yes, if it was flushed with fresh water afterwards. If you get a vague answer or an "I don't know," then I'd probably look elsewhere.

For $600 or less you probably want a 90s or early 2000s 2-stroke. 2-strokes have a stronger hole shot than 4-strokes of the same HP rating, and are also more compact and weigh a fair amount less than 4-strokes. A 6HP 2-stroke may be enough to plane your boat, but a 7.5HP or better yet a 9.9 or 15HP would get your boat going a lot faster. Anything less than 6HP will probably only putt around, figure 6-8MPH maximum. You will have to mix oil with the gas with a 2-stroke as Frenchy said and 2-strokes smoke and smell and some lakes such as DVL do not allow them. 2-strokes also burn from 30-70% more gas on the average than 4-strokes of the same HP. It's also likely that if you buy a 2-stroke older than 5-10 years you will have to clean/rebuild and adjust the carburetor and also replace the water pump impeller and spark plug(s) unless the motor has been flawlessly maintained.

For about $750-1200 you can get a modern (2003-2007) 4-stroke motor of 6-9.9HP. Keep in mind that a 6HP 4-stroke may not have enough balls to fully plane your boat. 4-strokes use plain gas, don't smoke or smell hardly at all, will be allowed on any lake, and get great gas mileage. They are more complicated to maintain however, and some say because the engine internals move at twice the speed, 4-strokes are more prone to breakage. I personally have not found that to be so. 4-strokes have been great for me. On a newer 4-stroke the carb should be fairly clean, but you will still want to check the pee stream and likely replace the water pump impeller if it hasn't been replaced in the last couple years. 4-strokes can be somewhat heavy so be careful not to overload your boat. Your maximum weight rating is usually including the motor, passengers, and gear.

Alternately, you could look for an excellent condition older (80s or 90s) Honda outboard of 7.5-10HP for about $500-800. These outboards are also 4-stroke, but are somewhat prone to carburetor clogging issues so make sure you get one with a clean carb or be prepared to clean/rebuild it yourself or replace and adjust the carb.

As far as brands, I'm strongly partial to Japanese motors. This is based on ownership of 3 Johnson outboards, 1 Honda, 2 Suzukis, and 3 Tohatsu/Nissans. For late model 4-stroke engines, be aware that Tohatsu makes Tohatsu, Nissan, and Mercury outboards so they will all be the same. For small motors, the Japanese motors seem to have tighter tolerances, better design, better build quality, better durability, and better reliability--not unlike Japanese cars. This is purely my opinion and it is worth what it cost you.

Good luck with your search and feel free to PM me with more questions.

Tight Lines,
Kev

[GeordyBass]

4strokes are Quiet and Fuel Efficient and are also "Green" and have Low Emissions. Downs are, They are Heavier, Sluggish to get on speed, and more expensive to maintain.... Oil Changes for the Upper Gears too, Valves, Belts, Injectors, etc....

2strokes are Simple and Powerful, they are really lightweight and have a ton of power. They are very easy to maintain as they really only need Spark Plugs and Lower Gear Oil (Transmission), Mixing TCW-III Oil in with gas 50-1 Ratio mix. Downs are they smoke a lot and are noisier too....

It depends on what type of Aluminum Boat you have...
Recommendations (Not true Coast Guard Ratings.)
12' Boat Manufacturers:

Gamefisher/Sea King/Sea Nymph/Flat Bottoms/Older Semi "V" Boats
HP Range:
2 stroke-
Minimum 4 to 6hp
Maximum 8 to 14hp

4 stroke-
Minimum 3.5hp to 5hp
Maximum 8 to 9.9hp

Gregor/Klamath/Duroboats/Valco/Newer Crestliners/Lund/True Deep "V" Boats
2 stroke-
Minimum 6-8hp
Maximum 9.9-25hp (Precaution with anything over 15hp)

4stroke-
Minimum 6-8hp
Maximum 9.9-18hp

Note: Dont Overpower Boat because of your own safety. If you do overpower it (Never Recommended), be careful and learn to control your vessel. This really goes to 4 Stroke Outboards as any 4stroke outboard over 18hp is extremely Heavy and is unsafe as water may enter through rear of the boat. And a 2 stroke is lighter, but still Strong and Will Cause driver to lose control if inexperienced.

Measure the Transom of your boat, The Rear of it where the motor should mount. It is common to be at 13-16" in length, in that Case,The motor Appropriate is considered a "Short Shaft, Leg".

DO NOT, And i'll Repeat, DO NOT Install a Long Shaft Engine on your boat. Your Engine can be damaged if used at full throttle and will cause the Lower Gears to fail, strain on outboard too. It will also cause water to spray up and go inside the boat deeming it very unsafe and expensive.

If the Rear is under or over 20", you will need a Long Shaft Outboard. Do not, and I mean DO NOT get a short shaft engine as it will cause it to overheat and engine will either blow or seize up.

I hope you use these tips to guide you to what outboard you are going to need. Please give us the specifics about your boat and who makes it.

Good Luck!

[GeordyBass]

Oh and I almost forgot,

These are Brands I recommend in my Opinion:

2stroke:
Yamaha-any year
Nissan/Tohatsu-any year
Suzuki-any year
Johnson/Evinrude-1974+,
Mercury 1985+ exclude 18hp-25hp before 1992, They had Plastic Carburetors and were too problematic. Check for the carb if you are suspicious.
Mariner-any year

4stroke-
Honda
Yamaha
Nissan/Tohatsu(my favorite)
Suzuki/Johnson/Evinrude, almost all are really Suzuki.
Mercury-any year 3.5-18hp... 9.9hp after 2006, Older 9.9hp were extremely Heavy but reliable engines.

Newer Mercurys are also made by Nissan/Tohatsu.

Motors to stay away from:
Force/Chrysler/U.S. Marine, Air Cooled outboards, and anything older than the mid 70's.... Unknown brands too....

[TaperSteve]

Thanx for all the help. I now have way more educated info to use in looking for a motor. There are definetely a few mistakes I would have made if I didnt start this thread and get your guys help.

TaperSteve

PS - The reg on my boat says its a Sea Nymph, thats all the info I have on my boat.

[GeordyBass]

No problem. Then I would suggest a 15hp Evinrude 2 stroke. They are Super Light and very easy to work with. Or a 10hp Honda 4stroke motor.

Again, be careful with the 15 when your on your own, When you have 1 or 2 passengers on, you'll know why I suggested that little 15hp :-)

Here are some engines:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/boa/1667001202.html

http://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/1663919131.html

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/1629900660.html

(This one might be about the max you want in weight)
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/boa/1667422996.html

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/1664313170.html

(good deal if you dont mind selling the boat, or keeping it?)
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/boa/1665029735.html

[TaperSteve]

95% of the time I am by myself in my boat. I plan on spending up to $600, maybe alittle more if its worth it. It seems most the motors ive seen for sale are 2 stroke. Are there any other bodies of water in the region that are 4 stroke only? I've never been to DVL but have always wanted to go and will one of these days. It sux to think that if I buy a 2 stroke I wouldnt be able to take my boat there. I was actually supposed to meet the guy with the 15HP Evinrude in Pasadena today but he cancelled on me and I wasnt able to make it out there later in the day. He left me a message to meet him in the am tomorrow. Does that motor seem like it'd be worth it and a good fit for my boat? or should I hold out for a 4 stroke?

TaperSteve

[Frenchy]

dvl is 4 stroke only i would hold out for a 4 stroke

[TaperSteve]

What about this motor?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/1668957295.html

It's a Tohatsu 8HP, 4 stroke. electric start, year 2007. I dont want anything too powerful since i'm usually out on my boat by myself plus I may want to use it for trolling from time to time so a 15HP may be too much. Only draw back I can see is the thing ways 90+ lbs. Would that be considered heavy? Does this motor seem like it'd be a good match for my boat? I got a call in to the guy plus I sent him an email but I havent heard back yet. Hope he calls me soon, this motor seems like it may be what i'm looking for. Once again, thanx for all the help!

TaperSteve

[Kevman]

That motor should be great if it has been flushed properly after being run in saltwater. Make sure it is a short (15") shaft, as most electric start motors from marina areas are long shaft and have been used as kicker motors for sail boats. You don't want a long shaft for your boat. I wouldn't go any heavier than 90 lbs for your boat size. As long as your transom is in good shape you will be fine.

The motor is a great match for your boat. It's the same block as a 4-stroke 9.8 Tohatsu, which I ran for years. They are the best small outboards for the money IMO. I'd assume the guy is not calling back because the motor is sold. At that price if it's in good condition it is a steal!

Good Luck!
Kev

[GeordyBass]

That motor should be great if it has been flushed properly after being run in saltwater. Make sure it is a short (15") shaft, as most electric start motors from marina areas are long shaft and have been used as kicker motors for sail boats. You don't want a long shaft for your boat. I wouldn't go any heavier than 90 lbs for your boat size. As long as your transom is in good shape you will be fine.

The motor is a great match for your boat. It's the same block as a 4-stroke 9.8 Tohatsu, which I ran for years. They are the best small outboards for the money IMO. I'd assume the guy is not calling back because the motor is sold. At that price if it's in good condition it is a steal!

Good Luck!
Kev
couldnt have said it any better. Tohatsu is really the best small 4stroke made, they also make Mercury too.

a 9.8hp would be the most bang for your buck. A honda motor is good too, they are pretty tough engines... That is what I have on my little 13' Gregor... Boat wont plane on it's own just an FYI. You will need planing fins on an 8hp maybe 10... It gets up on plane with 2 people or you just have to lean forward lol...

[DockRat]

2-strokes also burn from 30-70% more gas on the average than 4-strokes of the same HP.

It's also likely that if you buy a 2-stroke older than 5-10 years you will have to clean/rebuild and adjust the carburetor and also replace the water pump impeller and spark plug(s) unless the motor has been flawlessly maintained.
Kev

30% to 70% ???

More like around 20% to 40%.

And the impellor should be replaced every season or two even if it ' has been flawlessly maintained '

I do believe Lake Tahoe is 4 stroke only too.

Good Luck, DR

[DockRat]

One more thing.

If a older boat like a 70's or early 80's is rated for for a 50 hp that does not mean that it is rated for a 50 hp 4 stroke.

4 stroke motors are 30 % heavier and the transom on a older boat might not be strong enough since 4 strokes were not around in the 1970's so the rating was determined for the lighter 2 model.

DR

[TaperSteve]

Ive still been looking for a motor, mostly on Craigs List, mutiple times a day with no luck. I have decided on a 4 stroke. As I said in my earlier post I thought that most rental boats at lakes have 4HP motors on them. However, when I was at the Vine I noticed all their motors had an "8" on them which i'm sure means they are 8HP motors. As I said earlier I want something with alittle more power. Ive mostly been looking at 8HP-10HP motors. Can someone clear up what HP the motors on all the rental boats at the different lakes are?

Im close to making a deal for a 2004 Tohatsu 9.8HP 4 stroke short shaft electric start. The guy was asking for $1500. I offered him $800 and I think I offended him alittle. I was able to talk him down to $1300 but I dont see myself paying anymore than $1000. What would be a good price for that motor if its in good condition? I originally told myself I wouldnt spend over $600, then I went up to $800. Im thinking about offering the guy $1000 for his motor today but I dont want to pay more than the motor is worth. Should I hold out for a better deal or even a bigger motor like a 15HP?

Steve

[Señor.Chilax]

You're right Steve, most motors i've seen at Irvine are 8HP. My 12footer is rated for a 10hp max and I have a 2stroke 8Hp 1987 Evinrude. Let me tell you, it's just perfect. When im by myself, it hauls, and when I have two of my cousins with me, still gets the job done. You dont need much speed if you plan on being in a lake most of the time. Since you have a 13footer(if I remember correctly) I would go for a couple more HP's, maybe a 10HP.

[TaperSteve]

I got a 12' Sea Nymph. From what ive been able to find online it also says its rated for a 10HP max but I have no idea how accurate that info is. I will prob go with a 9.8HP-10HP 4 stroke.

[Kevman]

LOL, $800 for the motor you're talkin about is a lowball offer! The seller should have been offended and I would be, too! Offer him $1100-1200, buy the motor, smile and be on your way. Electric start was a $200 option on that motor in 2004 so that's a nice bonus. The motor you're talking about supposedly has 50 hours, and includes all the original equipment including the gas tank and fuel hose, the manual, and even the extra spark plug and extra pull cord. If the seller is a straight-shooter, which I suspect he is, that motor should be in cherry condition.

The motor you're looking at weighs about 83 pounds, which is about as heavy as you should go on the transom of your 12-footer. An old 2-stroke flat-top 15 would give you a lot more speed, but you already said you're going with a 4-stroke.

Nissan/Tohatsus are the best value in modern small 4-strokes. I've owned several. The 9.8 has a smaller block than the old 9.9s and 15s and it's not as ballsy, but it runs like a top and is reliable as hell. Plus you can troll all day on 1 gallon of gas and fish DVL, Skinner, Tahoe, etc.

Just for reference, I sold a pristine 2007 9.8 Tohatsu short shaft without electric start and 150-200 hours last year for $1150. And it took me just one weekend to sell. People want these motors and pay a lot because they know they are good.

If you think you can buy a recent model pristine 9.8 Tohatsu 4-stroke with low hours for $800 you should buy some lottery tickets! It might just be your lucky day!

Good luck with your purchase.
Kev

[TaperSteve]

LOL, $800 for the motor you're talkin about is a lowball offer! The seller should have been offended and I would be, too! Offer him $1100-1200, buy the motor, smile and be on your way. Electric start was a $200 option on that motor in 2004 so that's a nice bonus. The motor you're talking about supposedly has 50 hours, and includes all the original equipment including the gas tank and fuel hose, the manual, and even the extra spark plug and extra pull cord. If the seller is a straight-shooter, which I suspect he is, that motor should be in cherry condition.

The motor you're looking at weighs about 83 pounds, which is about as heavy as you should go on the transom of your 12-footer. An old 2-stroke flat-top 15 would give you a lot more speed, but you already said you're going with a 4-stroke.

Nissan/Tohatsus are the best value in modern small 4-strokes. I've owned several. The 9.8 has a smaller block than the old 9.9s and 15s and it's not as ballsy, but it runs like a top and is reliable as hell. Plus you can troll all day on 1 gallon of gas and fish DVL, Skinner, Tahoe, etc.

Just for reference, I sold a pristine 2007 9.8 Tohatsu short shaft without electric start and 150-200 hours last year for $1150. And it took me just one weekend to sell. People want these motors and pay a lot because they know they are good.

If you think you can buy a recent model pristine 9.8 Tohatsu 4-stroke with low hours for $800 you should buy some lottery tickets! It might just be your lucky day!

Good luck with your purchase.
Kev

Yeah I def wasnt trying to offend the guy but I never truely expected him to take $800. Have you ever seen that show Pawn Stars on the History channel? If you watch how they do business on that show they ALWAYS start off by offering a way lower price than they are willing to pay for the item. If the seller knows what they are doing they say they were looking to get $________ for it usually more than they are actually willing to take. Every so often you see the person on there that doesnt know how to make a deal and just takes the 1st price the pawn shop offers them. Everytime I just shake my head knowing that person just got hosed and could have got a way better deal if they would have done some bargaining. The guy trying to sell the motor has been trying to sell it for awhile now atleast a few weeks if not more. True motors like that sell all the time on Craigs List but they usually go for $800-$1200 and sell almost immediatly. Ive missed atleast half a dozen chances this last month to get a motor at a good price and have missed it by hours. I truely have been checking mutiple times a day and still have missed out so far. I figured since that guy has been trying to sell his motor for awhile now maybe I could make a deal with him like they do on Pawn Stars and he can finally get rid of that motor hes been trying to sell and maybe get alittle less for it than he was hoping to get and I could get that motor ive been looking for for awhile and maybe have to pay alittle more than I was hoping to pay. When I made my 1st offer I made sure to say lets make a deal and offered him $800. I made sure to say if I was in any way offending him with a lowball offer I apologize in advance and asked him what the lowest he could go was. Thats when he replied saying hed take $1300. I havent made him a 2nd offer yet but was going to offer him the $1000 today. I dont know anything about this stuff thats why im asking for help on this site and from friends. I have no idea if $1000 is too much or too little for that motor. Thanx for your input and I truely do appreciate your advice. Hopefully I can make a deal with this guy or find something else soon!

TaperSteve

[Kevman]

Good tactic then, Steve, to start low if you don't really need the motor right away. It's not like you're trying to make friends, just get a screamin' deal! I'm surprised this guy couldn't sell the motor for over two weeks. That makes me just a tad suspicious about it. Have you checked it out in person? He said it was used for a dingy so it's important that it was flushed thoroughly with fresh water after every use. If not, the internal cooling passages could be clogging up or the motor could be rusting out from the inside. Also check any of the external parts for corrosion if the motor was stored on a slipped boat by the ocean.

If the guy won't budge below $1300 that could very well be the reason it isn't selling. You can get the better 2010 version of the same motor brand new online for $1959.99 shipped. 2006 models and up have the shifter on the front instead of the side, which is slightly more convenient.

If you offer $1,000, I suspect the seller will counter with $1200 or so, but who knows?

Good luck!
Kev

[GeordyBass]

This one is a good deal for ya:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/boa/1720329211.html

Remember, the rental boats are bigger and heavier than your boat, an 8hp would be just fine.

[909mario]

I have been watching Craigs List for an outboard motor. I own a 12 aluminum boat. What is the difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke other than your score in a game of golf? Also, how many HP should I be looking for? I know the motors on the rental boats at alot of the lakes are 4HP. Id like something maybe alittle more powerful. I was thinking 8HP-15HP. Would that be too much? Are there any advantages/dis-advantages on a bigger or smaller HP motor like weight, size? Any brand you would suggest or advise against? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx.

TaperSteve

Hey bro, I have a 14' aluminum and I put a 15 hp johnson 2 stroke and had problems, first it was almost to heavy to carry from the car to boat, second it was way to much motor - I got on it and almost flipped the boat and it was scary fast. I decided for a 6hp johnson 2 stroke, its perfect, light enough to carry, great on fuel economy, gets the boat on plane and moving at a good clip, trolls slow or fast. YEP, look for a 6HP, even a 8 HP is to much motor. trust me! I only paid $250 for mine and its an 1988, runs great! trolls perfectly, and keep in mind my boat is 14' and yours is 12'. You dont need to go really fast, I am like you, usually fishing alone and it gets me up on plane and I weigh 220lbs. Keep in mind it weighs about 50-60lbs. I use a 3 Gal tank and I am good all day long.. Never ran out of fuel.. Now if you decide for an 8HP motor you might notice the weight significantly goes up, close to 90-100lbs. Not good.. I also have a 4hp, I really enjoy it it wont go on plane but it trolls great and scoots pretty good, probably 15mph. Good luck and tight lines

[fishrookie]

when the lakes ask for 4 stroke only does it have to be a certain type, say EFI or can it be a old carb 4 stroke as well. i wantot buy one for my 14 ft valco but am not sure what they allow.

[Kevman]

Any 4-stroke engine regardless of age and fuel delivery system will be allowed on restricted waterways in California such as DVL, Skinner, or Lake Tahoe. All small (less than 25 HP) 4-strokes are carbureted whether they are old or new. Tohatsu/Nissan came out with EFI 25 and 30 HP 4-strokes in 2006.

Carbureted and electronic-injection two-stroke engines are considered high-emission engines. Generally, these engines were manufactured prior to 1999. A carbureted two-stroke engine can emit up to 25-30 percent of its fuel unburned into the water or atmosphere, which is why high-emission engines are prohibited on some lakes.

Cleaner technology direct-injection two-stroke marine engines, manufactured since 1999, can be used on all waterways in California, except for some waterways that have generic prohibitions, such as banning all motorboats or all personal watercraft.

Hope this explanation helps.

Tight Lines,
Kev

[fishrookie]

Any 4-stroke engine regardless of age and fuel delivery system will be allowed on restricted waterways in California such as DVL, Skinner, or Lake Tahoe. All small (less than 25 HP) 4-strokes are carbureted whether they are old or new. Tohatsu/Nissan came out with EFI 25 and 30 HP 4-strokes in 2006.

Carbureted and electronic-injection two-stroke engines are considered high-emission engines. Generally, these engines were manufactured prior to 1999. A carbureted two-stroke engine can emit up to 25-30 percent of its fuel unburned into the water or atmosphere, which is why high-emission engines are prohibited on some lakes.

Cleaner technology direct-injection two-stroke marine engines, manufactured since 1999, can be used on all waterways in California, except for some waterways that have generic prohibitions, such as banning all motorboats or all personal watercraft.

Hope this explanation helps.

Tight Lines,
Kev
thanks for hte info i needed it. i have a 14 ft valco what size 4 stroke should i look for and should it be short shaft or long shaft?

[Kevman]

A 6-8 HP 4-stroke will push your boat ok if you don't want to go fast. A 9.8/9.9 HP 4-stroke might plane your boat with a light load and/or if you lean forward or put some weight in the bow. Make sure to check what weight motor your boat/transom (the back side of the boat) is rated for. Any 4-stroke over 10 HP will weigh 100-115 pounds and may be too heavy for your boat. If your boat can handle it, a 15 HP 4-stroke will definitely plane your boat and go pretty fast. Anything bigger than that is probably too heavy and faster than you would want anyways.

As far as motor shaft length, I believe there are two transom heights for Valcos. You should measure the height of the back side of your boat where the motor mounts. If it's around 15 inches from top to bottom, then you want a short shaft motor. If it's closer to 20 inches, you want a long shaft motor.

The best motor deals can be found on craigslist. Don't forget to check Ventura and Inland Empire as well as LA. Check 10-20 times each day if you are serious and when you see a good motor, buy it right away or someone else will!

Good Luck,
Kev