Suspension of Trout Planting

[jimbob]

This is direct from Dr. Dwayne Maxwell, head fishery biologist of the south coast region. Trout planting has been suspended. This is a direct effect of the EIR which went into effect 1/11/2010. Lakes that can meet the Pre-Stocking Protocol will continue to recieve trout plants. This most likely is the city and lakes for which no decision species can be found. If a decision species is a habitant of a said lake, then mititgation must be put into place, before stocking can continue. What this means is some form of plan must be put into place so that the trout will not effect the decision species. If no form of mitigation exists, the lake cannot be stocked.

Lakes that plant their own fish can continue until the end of this year. After that they must recieve a permit from DFG which will consider the same Protocol.

Once a lake meets the protocol, it will continue to be stocked for 5 years, after which it must meet the protocol again, or until it is known a decision species exists, which ever occurs first.

This leads us to here, Lakes, Casitas, Cachuma, Piru, Castaic, upper and Lower, all are in an area which is habitat for southern California SteelHead. According to Dr. Maxwell they are awaiting direction from the DFG Director on how to handle these situations.

In northern California, the introduction of 1 percent of a lakes trout population will not directly affect a plentiful steel head population. In So-Cal, the introduction of 1 percent of a lakes trout population into a stream which only has 20 or less Steelhead poses a significant effect on the steel head population. If the director recommends that this poses a significant threat to the Steelhead, a mititgation plan must be put into place, this most likely will be the planting of steril trout. Another fly in the ointment is the DFG must consult and work with NOAA, who is in charge of the Steelhead restoration efforts. This could prove to be extremely sticky.

Dr. Maxwell said not to expect a quick solution to this. So that means no trout plants. It also puts into place, the fact that 2 of the greatest Largemouth bass Trophy fish lakes, could forever dissapear, Casitas, Castaic lagoon. The lagoon could for a few years still produce quality trophy fish, just due to the enormous amount of shad, but the days of 15 plus pounders will be numbered.

If this action is put into place, and these lakes lose their trout, it sets a disturbing presedent that could lead to the destruction of all our recreational fisheries, in place of restoring all native species. If they can say that the planting of a non-native fish will effect a steelhead, what is to stop them from removing all the non-native fish in the lakes, and further more, tearing down the dams we have built? Sound far fetched? It never gets better. We have continually lost our recreational fishing areas, and opportunities. We will never get them back. We always lose to the environment, for which non of us want. How many people believe we should try and restore the steelhead, but destroy all other non-native species? A small minority, but somehow they always win.

I know what type of discussion will follow, I have seen it all before, people will jump on DFG, others will say there is nothing we can do, still others will say the trout are not for the bass, and someone else will stick up for the environmentalist. This is great because we are all entitled to our opinions. I just want you all to know the facts as I have been told directly from DFG.

[Fishbones]

[/QUOTE]Dr. Maxwell said not to expect a quick solution to this. So that means no trout plants. It also puts into place, the fact that 2 of the greatest Largemouth bass Trophy fish lakes, could forever dissapear, Casitas, Castaic lagoon. The lagoon could for a few years still produce quality trophy fish, just due to the enormous amount of shad, but the days of 15 plus pounders will be numbered.[QUOTE]

Are you kidding me.....for a stupid steelhead.........GRRRRR......thats a joke.....and as for these...Casitas, Cachuma, Piru, Castaic, upper and Lower..if they mess with these lakes its on! WHAT ARE THEY THINKING

[cartmanis]

ugh i was just finally able to find a place with fishing lisences in stock and now they arent even stocking my local holes, santa fe damm/peck road/puddingstone, if i woulda knew about this earlier i woulda saved my 55bucks i shoulda just got a ps3 game :(

[jimbob]

Start piling on them. Every Email I sent to DFG got a repsonse so far. I can't be the only one who can get through to them. Let em have it. This has to stop. Call the regional office. The answered me. Dr. Maxwell called me back. He has to be getting alot grief right now. The Director of DFG has to act in our favor. Anything less is unaccepatble. To even propose mitigation for steril fish is rediculous. We cannot let this get any further. This is our money being wasted to save 20 fish! I can't even tell you it's cost us to put in the casitas fish passage, over 11million dollars so far. Same with Freeman diversion in the Santa Clara River. We can't stock any of the streams I grew up fishing here.

But we have to act. I swear every email I have sent in the last week has gotten a quick and helpful reply from DFG. But it will take alot more people than myself to shift this in our favor.

[cartmanis]

where can i find this email? and what are you putting? would a big "mass" email sent from 1000s of emails all sayin the same thing help?

[seal]

DFG needs to update their website. No new mention in the News area, just the old stuff about EIR needing to be completed by January but they got an extension of some kind.

I don't see Castaic mentioned as a lake with the "Decision species"?

[sansou]

You have to keep in mind that SoCal steelhead are federally protected, and the state and the feds have literally spent millions of dollars trying to keep them alive in a few select streams. Those specific streams lead back to certain SoCal reservoirs/lakes, hence the trepidation of putting stocker rainbows in them for fear of cross breeding/competition/genetic dilution etc...

The steelhead is but one native specie. Let's not even begin to talk of the streams or lakes that hold native rough fish, such as suckers, chubs etc...

I would speculate, that the rainbow stocking program will also cease permanently for the local mountain streams as well. As much as many people would like to believe, those small rainbows being caught in the local SoCal mountain streams are 99% of the time are simply matured stocked fingerlings. Wild yes, native not. The DFG site only lists the San Georgino subspecies of rainbows as quasi-native, which makes it susceptible to the ill effects of truck trout stocking, AND a prime candidate under this court mandated EIR program.

As just one anecdotal example of how serious the steelhead program is regarded: ask the "ninja" fisherman that bragged and posted a picture of himself holding up that steelhead he poached from one of the local streams (2 yrs ago?). DFG quickly located and prosecuted him, and shortly thereafter posted a picture from the exact same stream location with a DFG agent smiling. Score one for DFG!

In the meantime, I certainly can empathize with the Castaic/Pyramid/Piru crowd not getting their stockers. Castaic and/or the Lagoon's potential to pump out a world record bass, I would think, is hampered. More importantly, there will be an overall loss of LMB angling quality as time progresses.

Not a good time to buy stock in a company that manufactures trout swimbaits....

[Fire Ball]

Are you kidding me.....for a stupid steelhead.........GRRRRR......thats a joke.....and as for these...Casitas, Cachuma, Piru, Castaic, upper and Lower..if they mess with these lakes its on! WHAT ARE THEY THINKING

The Lagoon better gets its trout stocks again and it better be soon! I can't believe that this is happening!


In the meantime, I certainly can empathize with the Castaic/Pyramid/Piru crowd not getting their stockers. Castaic and/or the Lagoon's potential to pump out a world record bass, I would think, is hampered. More importantly, there will be an overall loss of LMB angling quality as time progresses.

Not a good time to buy stock in a company that manufactures trout swimbaits....

The potential for producing world record bass will definitely be diminished if we don't get anymore trout! Hopefully we do get more though. It is also a bad time to buy trout swimbaits and swimbait gear, which I literally bought less than a month ago!!! :Evil:

[jimbob]

Well spoken. The State, Feds, and other entities have spent millions of our dollars to try and bring back this species. At some point a balance has to exist so that we do not further lose any more recreational areas/opportunity. If the LMB fishing is impacted. It impacts the quality of my life. It impacts the quality of my friends lives, and it affects the ability of those who do this for a living, whether it is Swimbait Manufacturers, or Fishing Guides.

I fish for trophy Largemouth.Period! I dont care if I catch a fish, I know I will go long times without getting one, but when I do get one, it will be over 10lbs.

If the trout plants stop, I know I will be able to adjust. I've caught them on things other than swimbaits. The fish however will not adjust. Pretty soon, we will start seeing long skinny big headed fish being caught, then after a couple years, they will be gone. The fish will then hit a wall about 8-9 pounds, with an occasional fish over 10. It will be an old long skinny fish. Not the fish I am looking for.

But what about the trout guys. As a kid I fished in our local streams here before they stopped putting trout in because of 2 steelhead. That means families that line the banks, the little kids who's snoopy rod with a bell on it goes off. I remember catching a 5lb trout at one of the local lakes, it was awesome.

The recreational fisherman really lose here. The guys that wait for the trout truck. The ones who anticipate the trout plants. lake Casitas is just starting to buy the big trout again. They will be advertising this so people can be on shore when the 5-10lb trout are being put in. Lakes can continue to stock their own fish til the end of this year.

For those asking about the directors email. It is on the home DFG sight. Appendix K of the EIR details the Protocol, Warning: this is not fun reading! It is a legal document which requires a dictionary to understand. Take your time to read and understand. If you do not understand something, ask! I asked DFG for guidance. Ask here if you have problems.

If you want to see the email I have sent, I will post it here. I believe we should all take the time and write our own. We all have different reasons for this. I believe a each person submitting a well written personal email, is better than a mass signage of one.
Plus it clogs up their emails and get their attention.

This is our time. We have to win.

[socalfab]

I just read alot of the stuff on the dfg's site about the EIR and I couldent find any information listed as to what the effected areas were. jimbob can you Please post a link to this information so that people who would like to voice their opinoin to the dfg are responding in a first person fashion not as third parties who are saying I read it on a web forum. I completely agree with everything you have said but everything I read on the dfg site was very vauge, and no where did i read that they were actualy stopping the plants already. or what the effected decision species in these areas are. If all this is true I cant beleive it, its crazy.

[jimbob]

I just read alot of the stuff on the dfg's site about the EIR and I couldent find any information listed as to what the effected areas were. jimbob can you Please post a link to this information so that people who would like to voice their opinoin to the dfg are responding in a first person fashion not as third parties who are saying I read it on a web forum. I completely agree with everything you have said but everything I read on the dfg site was very vauge, and no where did i read that they were actualy stopping the plants already. or what the effected decision species in these areas are. If all this is true I cant beleive it, its crazy.

It started with a call to Fillmore Fish hatchery when Lake Casitas didn't recieve a trout plant. Here is the phone number to them
(805) 524-0962. I had previousy recieved an email from them explaining that the trout plants would be getting larger with the next weeks plants. They said at that time, they didn't have to capacity to grow enough fish during the summer and had been ramping up production. They assured me all lakes would recieve their full allotments for the year.

On Friday of last week, lake casitas had still not recieved a trout plant. I called Fillmore Hatchery and spoke with Kenneth Robledo, who is fish hatcheries manager. He said things were on hold due to EIR.

From there, I emailed the director of DFG, here is his email: Director@dfg.ca.gov I recieved a response on the following monday.

Here is the email I sent:
"
Sir:

I wrote to you a week ago in regards to small trout plants being recieved by Lake Casitas. I recieved a very appropriate reply from Fillmore fish hatchery in an expidited manner. At that time I was told the sizes would be increased at the next scheduled planting.

Today I learned that planting had been suspended until the lakes meet prestocking protocol. I understand this is due to the eir that a law suit required be done. I feel this lawsuit is frivolous and is aimed at reducing or completly stopping recreational fishing. Regardless I know it is not the departments fault this happened.

What is the time frame for the lakes I fish to meet this protocol and begin recieving trout plants again? How can I and others be of assistance in this matter? As a dedicated angler I will do whatever is necessary to protect our sport. In a time of environmental awarness. I feel a great deal of fear and unrealistic items are destroying the areas and rights for the recreational angler.

People under the flag of righteous conservation continually assualt our rights as hunters and anglers.

I urge the department to do whatever is necessary and take into account the continued diminishment of quality recreational opportunity while giving the conservationist the right to do what the want.

What's further at stake is peoples lively hood who make a living fishing and supporting this sport. Everyday without trout plants is taking away from these people in the worst possible economic times.

Please let us know the time frame for the continuation of these trout plants.
"
Here is the response:
"
The Director has asked that I assist you with your question about our stocking program.

The Department of Fish and Game (Department) has completed the Environmental Impact Report as a requirement of the lawsuit brought against the Department. This EIR/EIS can be viewed at the following Internet address: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/pubnotice/hatchery/ . Of particular interest will be Appendix K Pre-Stocking Evaluation Protocol as it is the guiding force behind our stocking activities over the next few months. The Department has begun implementing the conditions in the EIR/EIS and one of those conditions is the implementation of the Pre-Stocking Evaluation Protocol. The purpose of this protocol is to allow the Department to stock a given water body if the conditions outlined in the protocol are met. Department staff are moving forward with the review process of all of our proposed stocking location to determine if it is appropriate to continue stocking these sites. The implementation of this process is to be handled by our Regional Offices and they would be the ones to tell you when they anticipate reviewing any particular water body. Lake Casitas evaluation will be handled by our Southern Coast Region and they can be reached at the following phone number [(858) 467-4201]. You will need to talk with the Senior Fishery Biologist conducting the evaluations, unfortunately I do not know who has been assigned that task.

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me directly at the following email address.
JSTARR@dfg.ca.gov
"

From there I called the phone number given and was directed to Dr. Dwayne Maxwell. (562) 342-7152.

He returned my phone call the following day. In our conversation, he said that the lakes I had mentioned previously are in a sticky situation due to the steelhead. He said they are awaiting direction from DFG director on how to handle these bodies of water.

From there I emailed Mr Jim Starr who had replied to me previously.
"
Mr. Starr:
Your prompt and precise response was very deeply appreciated. I was able to speak with my local fisheries biologist Mr. Dwayne Maxwell today. He was bale to provide me with the best information he has at this time. I understand that this is time of heavy work loads and pressure from all different directions.

Taking the time to speak with me was greatly appreciated.

This is a frightning time for all of Californias recreational users. During this time many recreational areas and opportunity are being lost out to unrealistic and unwanted environmental agendas. The idea that a stream with 20 steelhead which have been placed there by man, could jeopardize an entire counties ability to enjoy re recreational trout fishing is absurd. A proper balance must be struck to remove these types of agendas for which no one will enjoy the benefit.

If the steelhead were ever able to come back to what is an acceptable number, none of the recreational people for which our enjoyment is being discarded will ever be able to enjoy them.

At what point does this types of idealology stop? With the destruction of our drinking reservoirs, or the return of this land to the barren arid Indian grounds who stood here before our own established residency?

I urge the director to provide a proper balance that preserves our wants and wishes for the recreational anglers.

The planting of stocked trout in our lakes must continue in an unmitigated fashion. Any compromise is unacceptable and only further sets precedence that our reservoirs are target for future litigation.
"
DFG has not posted this information anywhere.

Here's some ways to help on the trout stocking issue. Anyone can help here by finding out the following for each location:

1. Who will be conducting the pre-stocking assessments?

2. Will private groups be funding these assessments, or allowed to fund them. In other words, will the Center for Biological Diversity be allowed to fund them?

3. When will these assessments be conducted?

4. Who are the regional DFG people involved in the assessments?

5. Will fishermen be asked to provide input on the presence of threatened/endangered species?

6. What is the criteria for the assessments. Some very important questions are things like

A. Does the area have to have threatened/endangered species now, or will historical presence be enough to stop stocking?

B. Will the current environment be assessed? Meaning, will they take in to account the effect of removing planted trout from the environment on threatened/endangered species. Will they consider that hungry cormorants, deprived of stocked trout, will turn on native species and eat them?

These are all very important questions. Will we as fishermen let other groups dictate the ground rules for the DFG to follow, or will we get involved to make sure this is a fair and unbiased process?

From there email the director with your concerns as pertains to this matter. We all have different reasons for this.

I hope this helps you all. I will do whatever is necessary to assist with you.

Thanks,
JB

[carpanglerdude]

That's terrible news. Thanks for keeping us updated.

Somebody mentioned a 'poached' steelhead-I'm not familiar with the rules about steelhead around here, are they not allowed to be fished for?
Thanks!

[Eat Sleep Fish]

I'd like to come across one of these panzies one of these days...give 'em a nice old fashioned beatdown. Nothing too serious, no blood. Well, no death...maybe some blood. ;)

[ChannelCat3]

Just read on another website that says all major reservoirs with over 1000 surface acres are exempted from the stocking ban. That leaves castaic upper lake in good standing with 2200 surface acres, but the lower lagoon at 197 acres in jeopardy..

[jimbob]

That was the case with the continuation of planting under the court order of last year. When DFG was initially sued, they were supposed to have the EIR completed by Nov. 2008. An agreement was reached with the petitioners to continue stocking under those guidelines until the EIR was done. Like you, I just assumed it would continue that way. Now that the EIR is in place, it requires case by case evaluation of each body of water to determine if decision species exist and the impact stocked trout could have on said species. Hope this helps.

[Trout-Chaser]

I have had dealings with DFG before (in a birding capacity) and it really helped to know someone on 'the inside.' From haivng such a contact, I can tell you with certainty that they ARE notoriously unresponsive to any form of communication. They ARE understaffed. They ARE underfunded.

There has also been an unrealistic emphasis in reviving steelhead and salmon fisheries over the past two decades. So much unbridled development has taken place all over the state that it is highly unlikely that any former steelhead lake or river can be restored to historical glory.

The bottom line to me, to us as fishermen, is that we are once again the victims of the ineffectual, incompetant morons in Sacramento. First they pillage the state coffers, then they slash jobs and programs, then the close down state parks, now they are cutting out trout plants. It all looks like a a real snowjob on the California residents and taxpayers. We are getting the shaft big time. Now is not the time to complain though--now is the time to contact your local representatives and give them a supreme reaming! Tell them how outraged that not only are they taking our jobs--now they want to take away our recreation. I am telling you from long personal experience--if the pressure is loud enough and hot enough, they will listen! I have spent many years in bird conservation work--and the squeaky wheel does indeed get the grease! Write those letters boys and girls. Pester them until it hurts!!:Smack:

Linda

[vanillagurilla]

the steel head is a bunch of bull ****. there hasnt been natrual steelhead in so cal lakes for probly close to 100 years. O.C. parks didnt get stocked this week and L.A. county parks hasnt been on the list for 2 stockings now. glad to see we bought fishing lisences so they can close more fishing area and not plant at the lakes we can fish in.