Mini jigging rods

[jmp_fishinn]

helloo alll!

so im planning to do a "small" upgrade with my mini jig rod.
and i know theres the Gloomis and the Phenix rods, BUT, those
are too pricey for me at the moment :LOL: so i was wondering if anybody
has some suggestions on what rod i can purchase?

something no more than $100(if possible?! haha)
and around 7'6 UL

thanks!

[FishBandit]

Daiwa spinmatic rods..... you can probably get 3 if youre lookin to spend about a bill. The HQ is in Cerritos and theyll replace the rod for you pretty much no hassle if it breaks. Theyre good for jiggin.

[Nessie Hunter]

Daiwa spinmatic rods..... you can probably get 3 if youre lookin to spend about a bill. The HQ is in Cerritos and theyll replace the rod for you pretty much no hassle if it breaks. Theyre good for jiggin.


Ditto.....

[jmp_fishinn]

Daiwa spinmatic rods..... you can probably get 3 if youre lookin to spend about a bill. The HQ is in Cerritos and theyll replace the rod for you pretty much no hassle if it breaks. Theyre good for jiggin.

hmm, i was thinking about the spinmatic, but i've read they dont last
to long? btw, where in cerritos is The HQ at? or do they have an address?
im not too far from cerritos so i might have to check it out!

[vanillagurilla]

theres not many inexpensive rods for mini jigging. the spinmatic is close. i have one and i thought it was good untill i got a phenix. now it feels to soft and not even close in sensitivity. but its a good rod for $40. they even replace broken rods i believe.

[jmp_fishinn]

theres not many inexpensive rods for mini jigging. the spinmatic is close. i have one and i thought it was good untill i got a phenix. now it feels to soft and not even close in sensitivity. but its a good rod for $40. they even replace broken rods i believe.

damn...i think i might just save up a little extra cash
for a phenix!! ive hear nothing but good things about those rods and
mini jigging.

[vanillagurilla]

just give them a call and ask if you could go down to the shop and check out some different rods. i have the 862 witch is 8'6" 2-8lb. great rod for mini jigging, worming and dropshotting. if you want to JUST mini jig or worm with very light weights i would go for the 861, its a 1-6lb rod so its a little softer in the action.

[bsp]

damn...i think i might just save up a little extra cash
for a phenix!! ive hear nothing but good things about those rods and
mini jigging.

A new line up is coming out soon that won't cost as much as the Elixirs, so you might not have to save up as much as you thought. I've got one of the prototypes, and they are definitely going to be good rods. Phenixs definitely worth the money. Mini jigging is the type of technique where the rod makes a huge difference because you need the correct taper/action and sensitivity.

VG pretty much got it in what to look for in the lineup. 802 or 862 if you're going for a more all around rod that can handle small cranks, the dropshot, or splitshotting heavier weights (little more backbone), and 761, 801, or 861 if you're going for pure mini jig. You'll see most guys mention longer rods because it's better for casting distance and you can impart a better action on the jig IMO with it.

[jmp_fishinn]

A new line up is coming out soon that won't cost as much as the Elixirs, so you might not have to save up as much as you thought. I've got one of the prototypes, and they are definitely going to be good rods. Phenixs definitely worth the money. Mini jigging is the type of technique where the rod makes a huge difference because you need the correct taper/action and sensitivity.

VG pretty much got it in what to look for in the lineup. 802 or 862 if you're going for a more all around rod that can handle small cranks, the dropshot, or splitshotting heavier weights (little more backbone), and 761, 801, or 861 if you're going for pure mini jig. You'll see most guys mention longer rods because it's better for casting distance and you can impart a better action on the jig IMO with it.

thanks for the info bsp!

VG i pm'ed you.

[WaterBound]

Everyone keeps bringing this up and I keep saying the same thing. Here is a little of my experience on the subject. I have had 6 minijig rods and have to say it really comes down to personal preference. All of this is in regards to 2lb test line e.g. action & backbone.

If you use a slower action tip you will cast a light jig/plastic better. It will also create better action. Length makes a difference in the action, but more so on distance. I have seen plenty of guys with 6ft rods still kill them using the right action tip.

Now the pricier rods will not only have a slower action tip for casting and action, but a solid backbone/butt to back it up. A perfect example of this would be the Bass Pro Shop Wally Marshal Mity lite rod. I use an 11ft model. Now this rod has the backbone of the pricier rods, but the blank is also thicker and heavier. Also a little less sensitive. Not to mention the heavy EVA foam grips. At $45 I was happy with the price to performance trade offs. It included Bass Pro Shop warranty.

But the Pac Bays and Phenixs are going to of course be better because they are using more expensive materials and construction methods. Which still are not bad at all for the price to performance value they give you (unless you wrap your own rods).

Now when I go to the Sierras or remote places I bring my Rainshadow RX7 9ft 3wt rod wrapped by NIM Custom Rods for spinning/2lb. This is a true noodle rod in every sense of the word. It is very light and sensitive. The cork grips are contoured well to my palms. Can cast a powerworm weightless with ease. This rod gets me the most hookups I think because of the action it imparts.

Incidentally my friend Jacob has an old $20 fiberglass Bass Pro Shop rod (discontinued & I could not find it) that is a PERFECT noodle rod. So you might try to look into a long fiberglass noodle rod on the cheap. But these rods have NO BACKBONE for fighting the fish.

So decide what you prefer. Do you want a rod that is more likely to get more hookups with better action? Or nah you want a rod that has some beefy backbone for fighting the fish. Or maybe you are a moderate and prefer something with a good balance between the two. The pricier rods will do a better job of offering more of both worlds in a lighter package. So Good Luck.

[jmp_fishinn]

Everyone keeps bringing this up and I keep saying the same thing. Here is a little of my experience on the subject. I have had 6 minijig rods and have to say it really comes down to personal preference. All of this is in regards to 2lb test line e.g. action & backbone.

If you use a slower action tip you will cast a light jig/plastic better. It will also create better action. Length makes a difference in the action, but more so on distance. I have seen plenty of guys with 6ft rods still kill them using the right action tip.

Now the pricier rods will not only have a slower action tip for casting and action, but a solid backbone/butt to back it up. A perfect example of this would be the Bass Pro Shop Wally Marshal Mity lite rod. I use an 11ft model. Now this rod has the backbone of the pricier rods, but the blank is also thicker and heavier. Also a little less sensitive. Not to mention the heavy EVA foam grips. At $45 I was happy with the price to performance trade offs. It included Bass Pro Shop warranty.

But the Pac Bays and Phenixs are going to of course be better because they are using more expensive materials and construction methods. Which still are not bad at all for the price to performance value they give you (unless you wrap your own rods).

Now when I go to the Sierras or remote places I bring my Rainshadow RX7 9ft 3wt rod wrapped by NIM Custom Rods for spinning/2lb. This is a true noodle rod in every sense of the word. It is very light and sensitive. The cork grips are contoured well to my palms. Can cast a powerworm weightless with ease. This rod gets me the most hookups I think because of the action it imparts.

Incidentally my friend Jacob has an old $20 fiberglass Bass Pro Shop rod (discontinued & I could not find it) that is a PERFECT noodle rod. So you might try to look into a long fiberglass noodle rod on the cheap. But these rods have NO BACKBONE for fighting the fish.

So decide what you prefer. Do you want a rod that is more likely to get more hookups with better action? Or nah you want a rod that has some beefy backbone for fighting the fish. Or maybe you are a moderate and prefer something with a good balance between the two. The pricier rods will do a better job of offering more of both worlds in a lighter package. So Good Luck.

Wow! thanks for the great information!!
i think im gonna check that BPS wall marshall rod tomorrow
and see how i like it!

thanks a bunch tho for all the info.

tight lines!

[AngryAgent]

Everyone keeps bringing this up and I keep saying the same thing. Here is a little of my experience on the subject. I have had 6 minijig rods and have to say it really comes down to personal preference. All of this is in regards to 2lb test line e.g. action & backbone.

If you use a slower action tip you will cast a light jig/plastic better. It will also create better action. Length makes a difference in the action, but more so on distance. I have seen plenty of guys with 6ft rods still kill them using the right action tip.

Now the pricier rods will not only have a slower action tip for casting and action, but a solid backbone/butt to back it up. A perfect example of this would be the Bass Pro Shop Wally Marshal Mity lite rod. I use an 11ft model. Now this rod has the backbone of the pricier rods, but the blank is also thicker and heavier. Also a little less sensitive. Not to mention the heavy EVA foam grips. At $45 I was happy with the price to performance trade offs. It included Bass Pro Shop warranty.

But the Pac Bays and Phenixs are going to of course be better because they are using more expensive materials and construction methods. Which still are not bad at all for the price to performance value they give you (unless you wrap your own rods).

Now when I go to the Sierras or remote places I bring my Rainshadow RX7 9ft 3wt rod wrapped by NIM Custom Rods for spinning/2lb. This is a true noodle rod in every sense of the word. It is very light and sensitive. The cork grips are contoured well to my palms. Can cast a powerworm weightless with ease. This rod gets me the most hookups I think because of the action it imparts.

Incidentally my friend Jacob has an old $20 fiberglass Bass Pro Shop rod (discontinued & I could not find it) that is a PERFECT noodle rod. So you might try to look into a long fiberglass noodle rod on the cheap. But these rods have NO BACKBONE for fighting the fish.

So decide what you prefer. Do you want a rod that is more likely to get more hookups with better action? Or nah you want a rod that has some beefy backbone for fighting the fish. Or maybe you are a moderate and prefer something with a good balance between the two. The pricier rods will do a better job of offering more of both worlds in a lighter package. So Good Luck.

I like how you broke that down..

I agree with most of it except the part about noodle rods being sensitive. I remember back in the day when guys were fishing with the Kencor's (a true noodle) and they were great for jigging except for one thing, you couldn't feel your hits half the time. The looser a rod is the less sensitive it becomes. The faster the action of the rod the more sensitive it is. Now along with that different materials also produce different sensitivity like graphite is lighter, faster action and in most cases more sensitive then fiberglass. Fiberglass tipped rods are better for casting in most cases because they load up better or slingshot your jig a little easier. Fly rod blanks are my favorite wrapped for spinning especially Sage. There are many variables and every single person will like something different.

[vanillagurilla]

i would personaly NEVER use or recomend a glass rod for jigging. It works like this (with any fishing rod for any kind of fishing, unless physics has changed) the longer the rod the more sensitivity it looses, the further apart the material is, the more sensitivity it looses. More expensive the rod is usually means the tighter the weave in the material. the tighter the weave the more sensitivity you get but, the eaiser it is to break. thats why you see guys put there phenix's back in sleeves or rod tubes most of the time. the cheapo off the shelf wal-mart rods (graphite) can get beat to hell with out breaking because the material isnt as good. if you grab a phenix to high up landing a fish it will snap like a dry twig. but the phenix (or any highend rod) will be 10x more sensitive. Kencore and american spirit along with other fiberglass noodle rods arent in the least sensitive. there mainly for casting bait or lures far. you might be able to cast farther but dose it matter if you cant feel the bite? i went from a $15 rod to a spinmatic at $40 and felt a difference. then i went from that to the $220 phenix and i wont touch the spinmatic anymore for tossin jigs. 85% is in the material of the rod, 10% in the length and 5% in the line. next week if you want to come down to fullerton and meet me at the lake by my house ill let you try both the spinmatic and the phenix and you can decide for yourself.

[AngryAgent]

i would personaly NEVER use or recomend a glass rod for jigging. It works like this (with any fishing rod for any kind of fishing, unless physics has changed) the longer the rod the more sensitivity it looses, the further apart the material is, the more sensitivity it looses. More expensive the rod is usually means the tighter the weave in the material. the tighter the weave the more sensitivity you get but, the eaiser it is to break. thats why you see guys put there phenix's back in sleeves or rod tubes most of the time. the cheapo off the shelf wal-mart rods (graphite) can get beat to hell with out breaking because the material isnt as good. if you grab a phenix to high up landing a fish it will snap like a dry twig. but the phenix (or any highend rod) will be 10x more sensitive. Kencore and american spirit along with other fiberglass noodle rods arent in the least sensitive. there mainly for casting bait or lures far. you might be able to cast farther but dose it matter if you cant feel the bite? i went from a $15 rod to a spinmatic at $40 and felt a difference. then i went from that to the $220 phenix and i wont touch the spinmatic anymore for tossin jigs. 85% is in the material of the rod, 10% in the length and 5% in the line. next week if you want to come down to fullerton and meet me at the lake by my house ill let you try both the spinmatic and the phenix and you can decide for yourself.

Another great explanation.

Hence IM6, IM7, IM8 modulus.

Many...many variables:Envious:

[vanillagurilla]

lol dont even get me started on hardware (guides, seats, grips) lmao.

[formosa]

i would personaly NEVER use or recomend a glass rod for jigging. It works like this (with any fishing rod for any kind of fishing, unless physics has changed) the longer the rod the more sensitivity it looses, the further apart the material is, the more sensitivity it looses. More expensive the rod is usually means the tighter the weave in the material. the tighter the weave the more sensitivity you get but, the eaiser it is to break. thats why you see guys put there phenix's back in sleeves or rod tubes most of the time. the cheapo off the shelf wal-mart rods (graphite) can get beat to hell with out breaking because the material isnt as good. if you grab a phenix to high up landing a fish it will snap like a dry twig. but the phenix (or any highend rod) will be 10x more sensitive. Kencore and american spirit along with other fiberglass noodle rods arent in the least sensitive. there mainly for casting bait or lures far. you might be able to cast farther but dose it matter if you cant feel the bite? i went from a $15 rod to a spinmatic at $40 and felt a difference. then i went from that to the $220 phenix and i wont touch the spinmatic anymore for tossin jigs. 85% is in the material of the rod, 10% in the length and 5% in the line. next week if you want to come down to fullerton and meet me at the lake by my house ill let you try both the spinmatic and the phenix and you can decide for yourself.

that's very well say, i had the same experience. it take me couple years of time and money
to find this out. now i fish with Phenix rods.

[AngryAgent]

lol dont even get me started on hardware (guides, seats, grips) lmao.

Hardware is simple as far as guides go...
Fuji titanium tatsg's bar none..

Reel seat..well I don't use them:Envious:

And you can keep the Phoenix rods factory wrapped, but I'll take the blanks as back ups to my Sages, Loomis's and St Croix's:Wink: in case I break them:ROFL:

[Ultralight]

Angry Agent, if you ever head up to the San Bernardino mountains, let me know. i have a couple of rods I'd love to have you try. They are probably 20-40% lighter than anything out there - including custom jobbies.

UL

[AngryAgent]

Angry Agent, if you ever head up to the San Bernardino mountains, let me know. i have a couple of rods I'd love to have you try. They are probably 20-40% lighter than anything out there - including custom jobbies.

UL

absolutely!

It would be my pleasure:Envious:

When you going fishing? Let me know!:Smile:

[Ultralight]

Angry Agent,

Actually time for fishing is limited give my responsibilities but if you ever head up this way, I'll meet you somewhere. So what I do is build as I can do it in small spurts of time. I'm not looking to sell any rods by the way as I realize that I rather build for pleasure than be under the gun. I did not enjoy the pressure of having to build a number of rods in the past months with time pressure. This way, I build whatever I want. Just enjoy showing stuff to enthusiasts. ( May sell blanks in time but that's a different discussion.) I think you'll enjoy it based on my reading your posts. Basically I started with a blank sheet and designed what I thought I'd like from how the guides are configured, the look, to the handle design. It ended up being perfectly balanced and lighter than I ever thought possible though there's no minimizing of any ergonomics for the sake of weight. Casting distance, sensitivity etc is all superb. It is fast action however so it won't work for those who want slow action.

UL

[AngryAgent]

Angry Agent,

Actually time for fishing is limited give my responsibilities but if you ever head up this way, I'll meet you somewhere. So what I do is build as I can do it in small spurts of time. I'm not looking to sell any rods by the way as I realize that I rather build for pleasure than be under the gun. I did not enjoy the pressure of having to build a number of rods in the past months with time pressure. This way, I build whatever I want. Just enjoy showing stuff to enthusiasts. ( May sell blanks in time but that's a different discussion.) I think you'll enjoy it based on my reading your posts. Basically I started with a blank sheet and designed what I thought I'd like from how the guides are configured, the look, to the handle design. It ended up being perfectly balanced and lighter than I ever thought possible though there's no minimizing of any ergonomics for the sake of weight. Casting distance, sensitivity etc is all superb. It is fast action however so it won't work for those who want slow action.

UL

I am always interested in seeing someone else's works, I can't wait! I love fast action rods as most of the action I produce with my rods is made by movement from my arm more then the rod tip. I like the sensitivity of faster action. Where are you located?

[Ultralight]

PM coming your way.

UL

[billy b]

I'm lost. I am very interested in a longer rod than 7 feet ... specifically for casting mini-jigs which I some limited experience. (I'm still wondering how to cast something 1/32 and get any distance ... particularly without using a split shot or a bubble).

If price is not the problem ... which should I get. All the rods I use are GLooms ... and there newest rod is only 7'6" and it just seems like the butt is longer. I aleady have a 7 footer ... maybe that's enough? My pea brain thinks what is above the reel and my hand is what the determining length actually is.

As a side note, I live about 45 minutes from Reno which is where I would probably have to go ... or else wait for my next trip to LA and go down to Rosemead. I'm open to having a custom made. It seems like I ought to get at least an 8 footer or more.

[paco]

Try Shimanos Compre Series rods.They have alll the lengths, actions and weights for your jigging needs. All for around a benjamin, with a lifetime warranty. No one else in the industry can touch that. Best bang for your peso!!!!!! Imo

[vanillagurilla]

except phenix who has a $50 rod exchange if you break it. shimano is getting really strict on replacing rods and fixing reels. billy if cost isnt an option pm angry agent and see if he can hook you up with his rod wraper for a Sage custom wraped blank. that is one of the lightest rods ive ever felt. sensitive and strong, but i do have to warn you. Sage blanks usualy START at around 300-350$$. so with titanium guides and a tennesee handle, probly around $500. but it is the best money can buy.

[AngryAgent]

I'm lost. I am very interested in a longer rod than 7 feet ... specifically for casting mini-jigs which I some limited experience. (I'm still wondering how to cast something 1/32 and get any distance ... particularly without using a split shot or a bubble).

If price is not the problem ... which should I get. All the rods I use are GLooms ... and there newest rod is only 7'6" and it just seems like the butt is longer. I aleady have a 7 footer ... maybe that's enough? My pea brain thinks what is above the reel and my hand is what the determining length actually is.

As a side note, I live about 45 minutes from Reno which is where I would probably have to go ... or else wait for my next trip to LA and go down to Rosemead. I'm open to having a custom made. It seems like I ought to get at least an 8 footer or more.

What model is your 7 footer? Are you good at casting? There are a few tricks that you can use to help you flip a 1/32nds ounce jig into oblivion. I like to use the 2-handed casting technique very similiar to casting surface iron on a boat. It helps the rod load up a bit better and gets more distance on your cast overall, it also helps you cast straighter if you have any problem in that area as well.

You'll be fine with a 7 footer as that is the standard in general depending on the model. I like to say that if you're serious about jig fishing then you could buy a custom wrap and spend some real loot but I would recommend buying something cheaper for the moment to insure that this is what you want to do. You can't go wrong with the Daiwa Spinmatic series for $40.00 as a starter rod to see if you're serious about jig fishing. We just got some new rods in the Longfin the other day that are great for jigging and kind of in the middle price wise as well at around $150.00. I forgot what they're called already but I will check it out for you if you're interested.

Good luck to you.

Thanks Vanillagurilla for the shout out.

IF you are interested in a Sage jigging stick PM me but they're not cheap by any means.

[Ultralight]

I think Angry Agent observed that for UL jigs, 7' 6" may be the max castings distance beyond which there's no gain. I think it may possibly be even shorter - depending on the action of the rod.

A guy I know with $600 valued GLX custom rod at 7' 6" that he was absolutely confident was the best performing rod he's ever had. It was his pride and joy and truly a nice rod built by one of the best builder in So CA. (Great guy too.) So he loaded up both my 7' and his longer Loomis GLX with 1/64th jig. This test is really loaded to the GLX's favor as it is lower in power and more parabolic, and thus more suited to the 1/64th. Well, they both cast exactly the same distance after multiple casts. That was a real surprise to me. So I think that 7 to 7' 6" is the sweet spot. I actually think 8' and beyond may start reducing casting distance IF you are using optimized rods. I'd love to have someone test their 8' or longer rods against my 7'. There is a LOT of invisible attributes that goes into a rod. I think every rod has to be built specifically to a specific reel for maximum performance. Once I lock in a rod design for a reel, I never use another reel with that rod. That is why a generic rod off the shelf, no matter how expensive, may not give the best performance. A LOT of what goes into performance is invisible to the eye, but you can feel it when you fish with it. That's where the fun of building comes in.

So yes, if you have the $ and can baby your rods, go with a custom. A caveat though. I've met some custom builders whose work was really not very good but they were very proud of it. One guy was visiting a nearby lake and was raving his work. I did not say much but there was no understanding of the technical aspects of performance in his builds. I'm not criticizing that builder as his rods were very affordable but in that case, I would actually take a factory build over his. So be careful - anyone can wrap a rod. If you are going to pay custom prices, take your time selecting someone really great who builds for your particular type of fishing.

Anyways, one more note on Kencors and other soft/heavy fiberglass rod. I have another buddy that really is a stand up guy and a great jig fisherman. He has a huge assortment of rods and note that although Kencors and fiberglass rods do have lower sensitivity, there are days when these rods impart a particular kind of movement to jigs that he cannot duplicate with graphite rods. Some days, his Kencor flat outfishes the graphite. He moves his fiberglass rods very differently from the graphite. Vice versa. So he uses both. Just a thought. For me, I just use really high performance graphite.

By the way, you would be surprised how far a 1/32 jig can beg cast with 2lb test, a good reel, and a good rod. Sometimes, distance matter. If a guy cast 100 ft. Another cast 122ft. The second guy is actually covering 50% more area. That's a huge advantage. There's been days in my lake where I'll catch a good number of fish at the edge of my casting distance where other guys are not reaching. I'm taking about metal lures where I just fling it out there.

Hope this helps.

UL

[billy b]

What model is your 7 footer? Are you good at casting? There are a few tricks that you can use to help you flip a 1/32nds ounce jig into oblivion. I like to use the 2-handed casting technique very similiar to casting surface iron on a boat. It helps the rod load up a bit better and gets more distance on your cast overall, it also helps you cast straighter if you have any problem in that area as well.

You'll be fine with a 7 footer as that is the standard in general depending on the model. I like to say that if you're serious about jig fishing then you could buy a custom wrap and spend some real loot but I would recommend buying something cheaper for the moment to insure that this is what you want to do. You can't go wrong with the Daiwa Spinmatic series for $40.00 as a starter rod to see if you're serious about jig fishing. We just got some new rods in the Longfin the other day that are great for jigging and kind of in the middle price wise as well at around $150.00. I forgot what they're called already but I will check it out for you if you're interested.

Good luck to you.

Thanks Vanillagurilla for the shout out.

IF you are interested in a Sage jigging stick PM me but they're not cheap by any means.

I have a couple of SR841-2 - IMX ... and about 8 other shorter UL type GLooms 2 bass types ... the 841's are the 7 footers. Intersting that you suggest I try them out ... What would I be looking for? Are there any large outlets that might be near me ... Reno is 45 minutes away.

[vanillagurilla]

i found a line thats 3lb tst but comes in at .0036in.... normal 2lb is .005 for comparison. i can cast 1/3 further with the other line but the other line dosnt seem to have much strength if you lift a fish with the line or if it gets anykind of fray or wear. but it sure dose cast far and is very limp. kinda feels like hair haha.

[blackberg]

I had actually taught about a fly rod wrapped into a spinning rod, as long term plan. Which of the sages would be better?
-bb

[AngryAgent]

I had actually taught about a fly rod wrapped into a spinning rod, as long term plan. Which of the sages would be better?
-bb

That really boils down to you. It's personal preference really. The Z-Axis is the old XP which is the model I am currently using and I love it. Really you need to pull on the blank and see if it's right for you, that is the only way. Also you could fish with it if you know someone that has one but good luck finding someone with a Sage wrapped for spinning especially if it's not someone that I know. Haven't seen too many of those guys:Envious:

[WaterBound]

All right many things I have stated have been taken out of context. First of all noodle rods are very sensitive IMHO, which is subjective. My graphite Rainshadow RX7 3 wt is extremely sensitive. It is a true noodle rod for 2lb test line. Yes because it is 43 million modulus GRAPHITE, it is more sensitive than fiberglass.

Someone corroborated my earlier statement that a light tipped fiberglass rod such as a Kencor gives superior action to the light 1/64-1/32 minijigs, which some people still don’t believe because they have different fishing styles. Now personally I definitely feel that Kencor and other noodle rods are sensitive, which is subjective because everyone has different feel.

What is not subjective is the fact that some weaves of fiberglass are less sensitive than some lays or weaves of graphite. Not to mention the fact that there are different resins and curing processes which will affect the weight and hence sensitivity of the rod itself. So if you really want to get technical then some grades of graphite are too stiff and NOT more sensitive than some weaves of fiberglass. Think about the oscillation of the rod in relation to destructive interference of the wave and lack of density being offset by the increased impulse of the load from the force.

The variations lie in the many subtle differences that affect performance. Most rod builders do not heat pressurize or vacuum bag their epoxy covered guide stems, feet. Modern carbon fiber builders, compress the medium to squeeze out the extra epoxy from the weave. This lightens the load and reduces dampening through excess material. The strength relies on the resin hardening and reinforcing the fabric, be it fiberglass or graphite.

Now that brings up another point of what we are feeling essentially. It is not like the electrical system of the human body’s nervous system. Instead vibrations need to oscillate in a waveform at their maximum rate of frequency, resonate. Now vibrations travel differently in a relationship with their environment. So the density of the medium of the rod will affect the transmission of the wave across or through it. The oscillation of the medium itself will also affect constructive and destructive interference of the waves. In other words the end of the line as well as the shaking rod loading and unloading as a force is transmitted through the line and exerted to the rod via the guides. The feel will then be transmitted to the grip and to a small and insignificant extent the reel seat via the line connected to the reel. Everything affects each other in a system because they are all connected.

Such things as EVA foam are going to dampen the vibrations more than cork. If you really want to get sensitive then just get the lightest guides, Ti. Acid wrap or spiral wrap the guides to balance the load from the line to the guides. (Some people feel spiral wrapped guides affect casting and feel in a negative manner.) Use minimal thread and compress all of the epoxy out. FORGET the grips and reel seat. Just use a thin shim for the reel and wrap it and the handle. All of the EXTRAS just adds weight and deadens the feel. After all everything I have said has been in relation to 2LB TEST and not anything higher like 3lb test. Of course this is subjective because of all of the different densities and diameters of the different lines used nowadays. People keep just thinking about diameter and limpness. But limpness is also in relation to density. That will affect the ability to cast a light object.

The density of the line affects the swing weight. It is kind of like the playground question of which is harder to lift 200lbs of lead or 200lbs of feathers. Now the smartass quickly snaps they are the same weight so only a fool would choose the lead. Of course compressed feathers will be harder to lift than those packed loosely with plenty of loft. Now the weight lifters always knew that lead weights were harder to lift than sand filled vinyl weights. The density and air resistance affect their movement through the 14.7lbs of atmospheric pressure already exerted upon us.


Now absolute feel like anything else is just one factor among numerous variables that always need to be considered. Simple things like the dynamics of casting a light object a far distance involve more than just factoring in the reel size, line used, size & weight of the jig in relation to drag and action of the rod. We need to also catch fish and to do this we need to work the right areas of water, which from the shore means a longer rod. Not to mention crosswinds and the resistance of the line.

Now some basic things to understand about the human body are that one can enhance anyone of their senses through training and acclimation. Muscle (string filament) memory and the hippocampus help encode new skills into our long-term memory. This is why ergonomics, casting and fishing style come in to play. A good rod builder won’t just ask for your specs they will analyze your casting style not to mention the exact reel your going to use to ensure longer casts.

Now grips actually do help IMHO and are worth their weight. A long Tennessee handle is very useful when handling big fish. The ability to adjust the position of the reel on the handle allows flexibility. The long handle also provides greater dexterity when following big fish in awkward situations off hand. My friend once had to follow a big brown in Parker Lake through a hole in a sunken log. The long handle allowed better maneuvering of the 9ft rod through the log and still land the fish. The human fingernail is actually designed to help provide backing to increase sensitivity to our fingertips. There are also more nerves allowing greater feel at our fingertips. This makes the right grip size a very important relationship that foam can generally cover at the price of weight. It is like shooting a handgun. If it does not point well for your hand and style of shooting then you are better off getting one that does. Feel is important. Too small or large can really affect your relationship with your rod. Think of it like a short shifter to a sloppy loose stock shifter. The take up, play and feel are a huge advancement.

It is hard to accomplish everything and make the perfect all around anything. There are tradeoffs to consider. You could choose a nice rod builder like Sage and GLoomis. Those are some awesome rods for a lot of money. However my BPS WM 11ft rod, which is IM6 GRAPHITE $45, will out cast them ALL with comparable backbones with similar action tips. The sacrifice is the weight and sensitivity. My Batson Rainshadow also imparts great action for a $60 blank. I cannot lie and say it feels as good as a $300 blank from the other brands. Especially because it has no backbone compared to the other two. It was designed primarily to cast a light minijig and impart great action. For the purposes being served it is sufficient and a much better buy. Just to clarify GLoomis just got greedy and are not going to sell their blanks to the public. If anyone knows of a source for the new blanks and not old stock that would be a great find.

Someone mentioned that a longer rod does not affect casting distance. Well it is true that just because the rod is longer does not mean it will cast further. We must understand the relationship between the action of the rod in regards to load, line test and weight of the lure used. If you have a shorter rod with a heavy fast action and a heavy jig then you will be able to outcast a longer rod with a lighter action and a jig that is too heavy for the rod. However if the action, line and the lure weights were equal, then the longer rod WILL outcast the shorter rod. It is basic physics and trigonometry. The height gives you that distance. It will also change the angle of the jig being worked. Look at spey rods and surf rods. The longer rod helps you work more water from SHORE. In a boat or a float tube the length can become an issue.

As far as the feel issues about the action of the rod in relation to jig fishing. I generally prefer a faster action rod for jig fishing 8lb test and up. I like the solid feel and less stretch from the heavier line and rod. However for jig fishing 2lb test, and casting minijigs, there is a lot of stretch. A longer and whippier rod will take much LESS force to load it than a heavier action rod. The load at impulse will be less. Hence the BETTER sensitivity with a light tip on 2LB TEST line. The IMPULSE, contact time, is increased because more of the rod will have to be loaded to feel the micro vibrations that travel along it. The heavier action rod will need more force to exert any load on the rod, move it. It is here where the length of the rod clearly aids in sensitivity, casting and action imparted to a minijig. Look at all of the Steelhead and Salmon rods. It is not just about distance.

Good example would be the Daiwa Heartland. OK rod with plenty of backbone, but HORRIBLE tip. It still is too fast for minijigs. It cannot cast as far as a whippy noodle rod. The action is ok, but nothing to suggest for the price. In the end if money is no object have GLoomis make you a nice spinning rod with a 4-5wt GLX blank or an Orvis Helios. The Helios doesn’t have the power of the GLoomis or the Sage, but it has a load to swing weight advantage and is lighter than either two. For the purposes of a backcountry spinning 2lb minijig rod it is a great option.

[Ultralight]

Waterbound,

Wow. Your post reminds me a bit of a gentleman named Emory Harris. I'm going to have to reread your post when I have more time. Lots of good stuff to digest. The only thing I may take issue is your statement that longer will cast further. I think it's actually a parabolic relationship. There's a point of diminishing return as rods get longer, and then finally a point of negative return as it gets too long. The question is where. I think the lighter the jig, the shorter the point of crossover from gain to loss of distance. Your illustration of spey and surf rods may not apply directly here due to the different lure weight.

Your post intrigues me. Would love to meet up with you sometime if you are close by.

UL

[AngryAgent]

Waterbound your gift of wording is absolutely awesome! While on some of what you have said I agree a lot of the other stuff I have to agree to disagree. Longer rods with a 1/32nds ounce jig don't cast farther. I understand simple physics (though it's been a long time since I was in school and I could be completely wrong) and such and that is also why I disagree. Much testing has been done to clarify an optimal range in length for casting a 1/32nds ounce jig. In the findings of the individual I know that has done the testing 7.5' is the optimal range. Once you get above that you don't gain much if anything at all. Now if you want to say that the rod is longer and reaches out over the water another 3.5' (assuming your rod is 11' like you stated) then your jig is obviously going to land about 3.5 farther because of the rod length and if you are exerting more force for one then another it is also going to travel farther but if you casted with the same amount of force and were to measure from tip to landing you would gain very little if anything at all with the longer rod.

Also from personal experience fishing with whippy rods such as Kencor (I have owned 3) I have to completely disagree that they (whippy loose rods) are anywhere even close to being sensitive. The looser the action of a rod is the less sensitivity it has. Faster action rods are for the most part always going to be more sensitive (without getting too technical about it) then slower action rods period. You absolutely sacrifice action on your jig for sensitivity no doubt about it but you can feel almost everything with a fast action rod where you miss a lot of bites with a rod like a Kencor. Guys have stopped fishing with those rods just because they aren't sensitive and they are missing bites.

I was also looking around at weights of blanks for the Helios and the Sage Z-Axis and the Z-Axis beats the Helios everytime if you are just comparing blank weights of equal height and line weight rating. Here is a comparison:

Helios 4wt. 4 piece 8'6" weighs in at 2 1/8th ounces
Sage Z-Axis 4wt. 4 piece 8'6" weighs in at 1 3/16ths ounces almost an ounce difference and the Z-Axis aren't even the lightest blanks made by Sage. The TXL series is supremely light with a 7' 4wt 3 piece weighing in at a measly 5/8ths of an ounce! They also have the same rod in 7'10" weighing in at only 1 ounce. Talk about light!!!

Like I said I can agree to disagree and to each his own.

[Ultralight]

AngryAgent, are you quoting the weight per specs by the manufacturer or actually weighing it yourself? I find manufacturers ratings to be often grossly inaccurate which is why I asked. The 7' 10" is the completed rod or just the blank?

UL

[sansou]

Waterbound your gift of wording is absolutely awesome! While on some of what you have said I agree a lot of the other stuff I have to agree to disagree. Longer rods with a 1/32nds ounce jig don't cast farther. I understand simple physics (though it's been a long time since I was in school and I could be completely wrong) and such and that is also why I disagree. Much testing has been done to clarify an optimal range in length for casting a 1/32nds ounce jig. In the findings of the individual I know that has done the testing 7.5' is the optimal range. Once you get above that you don't gain much if anything at all. Now if you want to say that the rod is longer and reaches out over the water another 3.5' (assuming your rod is 11' like you stated) then your jig is obviously going to land about 3.5 farther because of the rod length and if you are exerting more force for one then another it is also going to travel farther but if you casted with the same amount of force and were to measure from tip to landing you would gain very little if anything at all with the longer rod.

Also from personal experience fishing with whippy rods such as Kencor (I have owned 3) I have to completely disagree that they (whippy loose rods) are anywhere even close to being sensitive. The looser the action of a rod is the less sensitivity it has. Faster action rods are for the most part always going to be more sensitive (without getting too technical about it) then slower action rods period. You absolutely sacrifice action on your jig for sensitivity no doubt about it but you can feel almost everything with a fast action rod where you miss a lot of bites with a rod like a Kencor. Guys have stopped fishing with those rods just because they aren't sensitive and they are missing bites.

I was also looking around at weights of blanks for the Helios and the Sage Z-Axis and the Z-Axis beats the Helios everytime if you are just comparing blank weights of equal height and line weight rating. Here is a comparison:

Helios 4wt. 4 piece 8'6" weighs in at 2 1/8th ounces
Sage Z-Axis 4wt. 4 piece 8'6" weighs in at 1 3/16ths ounces almost an ounce difference and the Z-Axis aren't even the lightest blanks made by Sage. The TXL series is supremely light with a 7' 4wt 3 piece weighing in at a measly 5/8ths of an ounce! They also have the same rod in 7'10" weighing in at only 1 ounce. Talk about light!!!

Like I said I can agree to disagree and to each his own.

Respectfully, I think the flyfishing community would disagree with you about your theory that longer rods does not equate to further casting distance. I have a 8 ft 3wt (brand unk? it's very old) and 9.5 3wt....I can assure you that with the same line (I think I have floating - neutral on both) and tippet, I can cast a 22 dry pattern much further on my 9.5 3wt.

It's all about how the rod loads....and while yes, while I agree hypothetically that a ridiculous 15 ft 3wt flyrod might not cast further than a 9.5 fter with a light lure, I would think a similarly built minijig 7.5fter and 9fter would have different casting abilities, all things being the same.

While I'm no minijig master at all, it's been my personal experience that for SoCal in particular, and fishing the local water holes they call "lakes" out here, distance is NOT a factor. It's about the action, hence the cult of Kencor enthusiasts. It's tough to give the smooth hopping action on a fast action all graphite rod, IMO.

In any event, good discussion from all here....again, just my opinion. LOL.

2 cents....

[AngryAgent]

AngryAgent, are you quoting the weight per specs by the manufacturer or actually weighing it yourself? I find manufacturers ratings to be often grossly inaccurate which is why I asked. The 7' 10" is the completed rod or just the blank?

UL

It is just the blank weight for each individual blank..

[Ultralight]

Sansou, sounds logical but I would say that a jigging rod works differently from a fly rod putting out fly line. And 1/32 or 1/64 jigs also is a different dynamics from fly line. There are other factors too goes into the equation such as line drag.

UL

[AngryAgent]

Sansou, sounds logical but I would say that a jigging rod works differently from a fly rod putting out fly line. And 1/32 or 1/64 jigs also is a different dynamics from fly line. There are other factors too goes into the equation such as line drag.

UL

I didn't want to try and explain it any further. I have been witness to the testing myself and have seen the results. You can lead a horse to water....

[WaterBound]

I think many good points were made by everyone. A lot of things were clearly explained in a comprehensive manner.

Length in regards to casting distance is not a constant progression. The longer the rod the more force will be needed to move the extra weight. There is a point where the length will adversely affect casting distance. Otherwise the 20ft rods would be more common with modern materials, but they are not.

Another good point was brought up about the load of a rod. A rod will only transfer as much energy as it was designed to load and rebound. Extra force will not make a difference in the amount of force transferred.

In regards to blank weights. I have found different data. The Orvis Helios 8’6” 4wt is 1 1/8oz. The Sage Z-Axis 8’6” 4wt is 1 3/16oz. Maybe I have wrong data on the blanks. It just appears to me that Orvis is lighter in that specific rod class.

http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Orvis/Helios;jsessionid=0a010c461f4335593a028c9a4ce8be2f e5477a6f6205.e3eSc3qPbN0Te34Pa38Ta38Qah90

[AngryAgent]

I think many good points were made by everyone. A lot of things were clearly explained in a comprehensive manner.

Length in regards to casting distance is not a constant progression. The longer the rod the more force will be needed to move the extra weight. There is a point where the length will adversely affect casting distance. Otherwise the 20ft rods would be more common with modern materials, but they are not.

Another good point was brought up about the load of a rod. A rod will only transfer as much energy as it was designed to load and rebound. Extra force will not make a difference in the amount of force transferred.

In regards to blank weights. I have found different data. The Orvis Helios 8’6” 4wt is 1 1/8oz. The Sage Z-Axis 8’6” 4wt is 1 3/16oz. Maybe I have wrong data on the blanks. It just appears to me that Orvis is lighter in that specific rod class.

http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Orvis/Helios;jsessionid=0a010c461f4335593a028c9a4ce8be2f e5477a6f6205.e3eSc3qPbN0Te34Pa38Ta38Qah90


Good find on those blank weights. Everything is right around the same ballpark on the higher end blanks as far as weight goes when you get into that $250.00 an up range. Thank you WaterBound.

[the killa]

All I gotta say is that the NEW Phenix rods (Iron Feather and Mirage) are both the best rods I have ever used. You can actually feel the difference on your mini jiggs hitting brush or a fish hitting the jigg... Been fishing these 2 rods for about 2 months now.... Boy they are GREAT!

Here's a good link to read up on the new Phenix rods...

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewise2010rodspg2.html

[Ultralight]

Maybe we should have a get together to compare all our fav jigging rods - factory and custom. Would be a fun event and we would all probably learn valuable info.

UL

[bstolton]

Hey guys
What do you think about using one of these crappie rods for trout. I want to learn to jig for trout but didn`t want to spend 150-200 bucks on a rod until I am sure I like it. http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_58569_100002004_100000000_100002000_100-2-4

Bill

[vanillagurilla]

just pick up a diawa spinmatic for 39.99 at your local tackle store.