Just some thoughts on socal lakes.

[Spark626]

Yesterday was the fist time I got to fish solo in a long time. Usually I go with a buddy or two but it was different fishing by myself, I forgot about how much you can just think. Anyways, without catching a single fish for about the past 4 trips, i was really starting to "get over" trout fishing. Then i thought, what the hell happened? how did things get this way? you see, I remember growing up as a kid and teenager and how i would dream about catching fish, read books on fishing.My mom took me on a trip to isabella lake where i caught my first trout on the kern river. I was just as hooked as the fish i caught that day on trout fishing. Anyways, grew up poor so annual permit and a $15 rod/reel was just about affordable. Theres no way I would have been able able to afford to fish santa ana,corona,irvine,laguna niguel and hesperia and jess ranch would have been too far to drive "unsupervised" lol.

Watching the trout trucks drive pass to make the stocking (which personally, totally kills the "wild outdoors" image) i thought, since the reason why it cost so much to is cause of transportation. instead of us going fishing, the fish is being brought to us by these trucks, would it be possible to start a breeding program of some sort ? the tuna guys are already doing it offshores, why the hell not us freshwater anglers?

[DarkShadow]

I'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a SmallCock.

[J-Dub]

the problem with that would be it would cost alot of money and time to do this....and plus u would have to find a place suffiecient enough to raise the fish.....thats just my opinion...lol

[J-Dub]

I'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a SmallCock.


lmfao wth???? too funny! :ROFL:

[Spark626]

I'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a SmallCock.

thats hilarious:ROFL:


the problem with that would be it would cost alot of money and time to do this....and plus u would have to find a place suffiecient enough to raise the fish.....thats just my opinion...lol

with gas prices they are right now? semi trucks? driver? we're got exactly being cost effiecient right now in my opinion. im thinking of setting some sort of netting system floating in the middle of the of the lake and let them figure out a way to make em do it.

[Liteliner]

i'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a smallcock.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[FISHNCHIPS]

Temperature,oxygen level and water quality would not allow salmonids to breed succesfully on a large scale in Southern California waters. This is why most pay lakes stock trout from November to April because even mature fish will die in the warm summer water. The cost to transport a pound of fish from Shasta county to San Bernadino County is only 10 cents and one facility there can produce a million lbs per year because of the large amount of highly oxygenated 48 degree water that flows through it,a small river's worth.
I just retired as manager of that facility,good work but there's a whole lot to producing that trout that you catch down there.
By far, most of the cost of producing trout is in the feed and labor it takes to produce the 1.5 million pounds that Southern Cal lakes recieve each season.

[blackberg]

I'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a SmallCock.
how long have you been waiting to use that?
:ROFL::Dancing Banana:


-bb

[Spark626]

Temperature,oxygen level and water quality would not allow salmonids to breed succesfully on a large scale in Southern California waters. This is why most pay lakes stock trout from November to April because even mature fish will die in the warm summer water. The cost to transport a pound of fish from Shasta county to San Bernadino County is only 10 cents and one facility there can produce a million lbs per year because of the large amount of highly oxygenated 48 degree water that flows through it,a small river's worth.
I just retired as manager of that facility,good work but there's a whole lot to producing that trout that you catch down there.
By far, most of the cost of producing trout is in the feed and labor it takes to produce the 1.5 million pounds that Southern Cal lakes recieve each season.

sounds like simulating nature somehow is gonna cost too much, had no clus its only 10 cents a lb to transport. Glad you chimed in on this one fishnchips. would you agree with me if i wanted to catch da big one i should fish the big lake and fish the pond if i want my limit?

[Marley]

sounds like simulating nature somehow is gonna cost too much, had no clus its only 10 cents a lb to transport. Glad you chimed in on this one fishnchips. would you agree with me if i wanted to catch da big one i should fish the big lake and fish the pond if i want my limit?

The fish tend to move between the two lakes via the area called Three Pipes (aptly named for its three underground/underwater culverts.) You stand a better chance of catching a big fish from the pond because it's a smaller lake. Of course, that's my story and I'll stick to it, but it seems to be what I've noticed from fishing several days after the plant goes in. That probably more than anything determines where the fish will be caught, "that" being when they were planted relative to when you're fishing.

[Spark626]

The fish tend to move between the two lakes via the area called Three Pipes (aptly named for its three underground/underwater culverts.) You stand a better chance of catching a big fish from the pond because it's a smaller lake. Of course, that's my story and I'll stick to it, but it seems to be what I've noticed from fishing several days after the plant goes in. That probably more than anything determines where the fish will be caught, "that" being when they were planted relative to when you're fishing.

hmm..sounds pretty consistant with my experience, i was a bit to the right of the pipes at chris pond with my back to the big lake at the end of the day. ill be more prepared the next time for redemption.

[fishincrave]

I'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a SmallCock.
Holy sh**** that's f***** funny still rollin :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:

[Big Daddy]

I'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a SmallCock.

MAN i JUST FELL OFF MY CHAIR YOU HAVE TO HAVE BEEN SITTING ON THAT ONE FOR A LONG TIME, GREAT TIMING.

What would you tell people that tomorrow your going to get up early and go out a get yourself a smallcock. Too funny man.:ROFL:

[tat2 fishhead]

I'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a SmallCock.
WHAT...! :Bug Eyes:THAT WAS WAY TO FUNNY:ROFL::Worship:

[FISHNCHIPS]

sounds like simulating nature somehow is gonna cost too much, had no clus its only 10 cents a lb to transport. Glad you chimed in on this one fishnchips. would you agree with me if i wanted to catch da big one i should fish the big lake and fish the pond if i want my limit?

In all the years I sent fish down there I never visited the lake so I couldn't tell you what would get you limits vs. big fish but here's a tip for big fish.
All the stocked fish are now triploid,they are just grown to different sizes. Fish 2 pounds and under are fed sinking pellet feed and the large "trophy" fish are fed large floating pellets about the size and color of a dog food kibble.
These fish from 10-30 lbs have been looking up to the surface for their food for years. Might be a good idea to simulate food on the surface for those biguns! It's fun just to watch a pond of 20 pounders attacking their food.

[Marley]

....
All the stocked fish are now triploid,they are just grown to different sizes.

Boil...
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but triploids are relatively expensive to produce so only the ones targeted to be huge, or to be released into waters where the possibility of cross-breeding with wild fish is undesirable, are triploided. For proof, you need look no further than the cleaning tables. Ever see skeins of roe or loose eggs? By definition, triploids cannot produce eggs.
But, I still want to see a truckload of triploided trout dumped into DVL. Put 'em in at about 3 pounds so the stripers will have a hard time with them, and then sit back and see how big the handful that survive ten years gets.

[bigd87]

I'd cross breed a smallmouth bass and a peacock bass.

Call him a SmallCock.

hahahahahhahaha

[FISHNCHIPS]

Boil...
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but triploids are relatively expensive to produce so only the ones targeted to be huge, or to be released into waters where the possibility of cross-breeding with wild fish is undesirable, are triploided. For proof, you need look no further than the cleaning tables. Ever see skeins of roe or loose eggs? By definition, triploids cannot produce eggs.
But, I still want to see a truckload of triploided trout dumped into DVL. Put 'em in at about 3 pounds so the stripers will have a hard time with them, and then sit back and see how big the handful that survive ten years gets.

There is no extra expense in producing triploided trout other than the half cent extra cost for the egg. You will see some skeins of eggs in the fall because about the best success in the process gives you about 90 % triploided. It does cut down on the possibility of crossing with native strains which isn't an issue in most SOCAL waters. I don't know whether the other producers are going with triploid or not but we're all getting our eggs from the same supplier these days.

[Spark626]

In all the years I sent fish down there I never visited the lake so I couldn't tell you what would get you limits vs. big fish but here's a tip for big fish.
All the stocked fish are now triploid,they are just grown to different sizes. Fish 2 pounds and under are fed sinking pellet feed and the large "trophy" fish are fed large floating pellets about the size and color of a dog food kibble.
These fish from 10-30 lbs have been looking up to the surface for their food for years. Might be a good idea to simulate food on the surface for those biguns! It's fun just to watch a pond of 20 pounders attacking their food.

this is awsome info, very interesting. i wanna start making my own bait. any input on what the pellets are made from?

[Marley]

There is no extra expense in producing triploided trout other than the half cent extra cost for the egg. You will see some skeins of eggs in the fall because about the best success in the process gives you about 90 % triploided. It does cut down on the possibility of crossing with native strains which isn't an issue in most SOCAL waters. I don't know whether the other producers are going with triploid or not but we're all getting our eggs from the same supplier these days.

Interesting. One of the hatcheries planting much of the state (and a couple of rather popular local lakes) uses their own eggs and reportedly sells them around the globe. They must be that source.
Other states are the ones using triploided fish for planting in sensitive waters; Idaho comes to mind.
You mention that you used to be a hatchery manager. I get kind of giddy when I think about a job like that. Which hatchery did you run? You can PM if you can answer, it won't go any further.

[BigBass777]

The difference between living in southern CA from northern CA is the fishing. Other than buying a fishing license and the salmon punch card stickers, it costs nothing to very little to fish in northern CA. My dad lived in Jones Valley and was within 1 mile from Lake Shasta. It was pretty much his backyard and he caught trout for free during the winter. All the other lakes and streams (in every direction from him) are free to fish as well. Compare that to OC lakes and we pay quite a bit to go trout fishing. Mind as well buy it in the store. Plus these pay lakes get so crowded and highly pressured. Up in northern CA you'd be lucky to see anyone fishing near you at any given time. Gotta be very careful of the restrictions too. Make sure you know where you're fishing at is legal because DFG is watching.

The other difference is the cold weather up north if you can bear it. He lives farther north now and it gets down to 10 degrees. The roads get iced up so your pretty much stuck in the house all day with a fire going.

The smallcock comment was hilarious. You'd make a fortune having and running a smallcock hatchery.

[FISHNCHIPS]

this is awsome info, very interesting. i wanna start making my own bait. any input on what the pellets are made from?

45% fishmeal (normally herring),27% soybean meal then a list of grain and ag products and by-products.
To improve palatability and cause fish to feed when they otherwise wouldn't add some krill to the mix,they love it.
Berkely came out with a soft commercial pellet imitation years ago to give stockers what they are used to seeing.
Rearing ponds do have some natural environment to them though and these fish know what a worm,stonefly,and salmonfly is.

[FISHNCHIPS]

Interesting. One of the hatcheries planting much of the state (and a couple of rather popular local lakes) uses their own eggs and reportedly sells them around the globe. They must be that source.
Other states are the ones using triploided fish for planting in sensitive waters; Idaho comes to mind.
You mention that you used to be a hatchery manager. I get kind of giddy when I think about a job like that. Which hatchery did you run? You can PM if you can answer, it won't go any further.

If your talking about Mt. Lassen they sold that part of their business years ago to Troutlodge of Washington State and that's where everyone gets their eggs these days including MLTF. It's no secret,I managed the Lost Creek facility in Hat Creek for the last 20 years and yes it was a dream job.
Lots of hard cold work but a fantastic place to live and challenging,interesting work trying to grow fish at least cost while trying for the best quality for the conditions.
Biggest fish grown-33 1/2 lbs.
Coldest morning- 22 below zero !!!
11 1/4 million lbs produced and shipped.
It was a good tenure.

[Bradakas]

If your talking about Mt. Lassen they sold that part of their business years ago to Troutlodge of Washington State and that's where everyone gets their eggs these days including MLTF. It's no secret,I managed the Lost Creek facility in Hat Creek for the last 20 years and yes it was a dream job.
Lots of hard cold work but a fantastic place to live and challenging,interesting work trying to grow fish at least cost while trying for the best quality for the conditions.
Biggest fish grown-33 1/2 lbs.
Coldest morning- 22 below zero !!!
11 1/4 million lbs produced and shipped.
It was a good tenure.

WOW any pictures?!?

[Marley]

If your talking about Mt. Lassen they sold that part of their business years ago to Troutlodge of Washington State and that's where everyone gets their eggs these days including MLTF. It's no secret,I managed the Lost Creek facility in Hat Creek for the last 20 years and yes it was a dream job.
Lots of hard cold work but a fantastic place to live and challenging,interesting work trying to grow fish at least cost while trying for the best quality for the conditions.
Biggest fish grown-33 1/2 lbs.
Coldest morning- 22 below zero !!!
11 1/4 million lbs produced and shipped.
It was a good tenure.

Nice! Thank you for sharing. I bet it was a dream job. The science of it all really intrigues me. I hadn't heard that Mt. Lassen had sold their egg production.

edit: Troutlodge has a neat website...

[FISHNCHIPS]

Nice! Thank you for sharing. I bet it was a dream job. The science of it all really intrigues me. I hadn't heard that Mt. Lassen had sold their egg production.

edit: Troutlodge has a neat website...

It was a big secret for a while,the egg production workers were even payed $5,000 for their silence about it along with a contract stating that they would not work anywhere in egg production for 10 years. (Troutlodge's condition). Troutlodge has a lot of good products but their strain is inferior to what I used to spawn,at least the all female triploids don't convert feed as well,driving up cost of production.
Science wise one of the coolest things is that the mothers of these fish are female and the fathers of these fish are female. When you promote sperm production in a female and use it to fertilize normally produced eggs you get an all female hatch,no bucks like the old days which nobody liked. Now it's cool to catch a big hookjaw because they have become rare in stockers.
Hormones can do strange things.

[Marley]

Troutlodge has a lot of good products but their strain is inferior to what I used to spawn,at least the all female triploids don't convert feed as well,driving up cost of production.

I must have read something like that to get the impression of the increased cost.


Science wise one of the coolest things is that the mothers of these fish are female and the fathers of these fish are female. When you promote sperm production in a female and use it to fertilize normally produced eggs you get an all female hatch,no bucks like the old days which nobody liked. Now it's cool to catch a big hookjaw because they have become rare in stockers.
Hormones can do strange things.


I also read that male triploids actually do produce milt, but do not have the delivery system to successfully spawn, thus effectively rendering them sterile.
If I'm reading this right, and this is the norm for all trout production these days (I'm guessing by the number of milting fish I catch that are left behind by the DFG, they're not using the triple-helixed fish,) you are producing an XX gamete to fertilize another XX gamete, no? How does THAT work?

[FISHNCHIPS]

I must have read something like that to get the impression of the increased cost.




I also read that male triploids actually do produce milt, but do not have the delivery system to successfully spawn, thus effectively rendering them sterile.
If I'm reading this right, and this is the norm for all trout production these days (I'm guessing by the number of milting fish I catch that are left behind by the DFG, they're not using the triple-helixed fish,) you are producing an XX gamete to fertilize another XX gamete, no? How does THAT work?

The all female process and the triploid process are two separate things but can be combined to create what is being produced today.
When you take sperm from a female that has been affected by doses of Testosterone early in life the sperm will produce only females. The sperm has to be removed from the fish because the female does not form sperm ducts.
The triploiding is a temperature manipulation at time of fertilization and it is intended to remove the reproductive ability in mainly the females so that they feed and grow instead of using energy to produce eggs and spawn. Nowdays we are using this to allow to grow stockers into the fall at a larger size without having them be eggy,lower quality and more difficult to ship. Also if you come up with leftovers at the end of the season which is common, they can be held or moved into trophy production without reproductive problems.
I wouldn't think that DFG has been using triploid much but may in the future due to the environmental roadblocks that have been thrown their way. It's been so long since I worked with mixed sex triploids that I don't recall milt but come to think of it they didn't seem to produce.
We always hoped we would find one of these altered females that had both sperm and eggs so that we could try "mating" it with itself but never did.

[Marley]

Very neat, VERY cool stuff. I could see the DFG using triploids to avoid cross breeding with the offspring of fish they planted over the last 100-odd years, but it seems their problem now lies in the (unsubstantiated) concern that trout in general are causing ecosystems to collapse simply by being introduced into them. One would think that if it hasn't happened over the course of the last century-plus, it likely isn't going to happen any time soon. But, that's a topic for another thread...
Thanks again for sharing!

[chad]

What do you think the size limit on the smallcock would be 4 or 5 inches?:LOL:
Pretty interisting read after a nice wise crack like that makes for a good post.

[FISHNCHIPS]

MAN i JUST FELL OFF MY CHAIR YOU HAVE TO HAVE BEEN SITTING ON THAT ONE FOR A LONG TIME, GREAT TIMING.

What would you tell people that tomorrow your going to get up early and go out a get yourself a smallcock. Too funny man.:ROFL:

Actually the smallcock is spread widely throughout it's range in Southern California and rarely seen north of Sacramento.