Ugly incident at Vail this morning

[Fishbreath]

I have been a member at Vail for about a year and a half now, and I am always pleased at how courteous the fishermen are to each other. That opinion was shaken this morning when I was bullied out of the spot I was fishing. I was fishing a drop-off in a rather confined corner when a boat came barreling in on top of me. I tried suggesting that they were crowding me, then the next time I told them they were directly over the spot I was trying to fish, and then the third time I asked them to move and give me some space. Their response was that if I wanted to fish where they were, then I should trade places with them, which was silly because I was already where I wanted to be. I was definitely not having fun, so I decided to move on somewhere else. With only four boats on the lake you would think they would be able to find somewhere other than on top of me. When I told them I would be filing a complaint, the obscenities were so bad they could not be posted here. I must be naive, but I did not realize that adults talked to each other like that. I was told that I was a crybaby, and I could take my complaint and shove it up my ...... I did file a complaint, of course, and was told that this was the second one against that boat inside a week. I think there should be zero tolerance for that kind of behaviour, but apparently there have to be three complaints before they take action.

I did manage to have a nice morning, with the largest bass topping out at 8 lbs. But it was the catfish that stole the show. I caught five over 10 lbs.


Old fishermen never die. They just smell that way.

[DEADROOTS]

Sorry to hear you had a bad time. Next time shoot a flare at them:Guns:.

[Crawler]

That sucks man.

I had something kind of similar happen out at skinner shore fishing not to long ago. Me and a bud were fishing the first point near the marina. We had four rods our about 5-8 feet from eachother. Nobody else around. Well after we had been there for 45 minutes or so, this guy and his elderly dad came walking up. We bullshitted for a minute or two and the forking guys asked us if he could set up IN BETWEEN OUR RODS. Thats right, he wanted to set his rods up BETWEEN two of our four. We are not talking 30' of space between rods here, more like 5'. Myself and my friend both looked at eachother stunned that anyone would have the audacity to ask someone to fish inbetween thier rods. We didnt know what to say at first. We told him no, and he set up about 10' from us. He asked us twice more in the course of the next half hour if he could throw out in between us. We finally just said "knock yourself our bro". and went to find another spot that was not occupied by duh-dun-da-da's. :Rolls Eyes:

[matt duarte]

if they play dirty why dont you...call and make another complaint simple as that... if they want to be rude you can be crude...i would do it...or i just would of got one of my big baits and fired it straight at them hopin to hook one and pull one in the water... good luck...and make another complaint wont hurt anyone but the a-holes

[ART HILL]

I am very sorry to hear of your unfortunate run in today Larry. I to have noticed, as well as others, that there is a whole new attitude that has arrived at Vail in the last few months. What used to be a nice quite lake, has now become something quite different. I now refuse to go into the "parking lot" area that you are referring to.

[lurk 182]

fishbreath, now i know why you were telling stories about drop shotting not being a small fish tecnique on that other site. art, i believe i made a comment about a picture you posted on that other site about Vail being pretty expensive to have four boats within fifty feet of one another and you said it was a rarity. looks like everybody's feeling the squeeze. guess i'll stick with Casitas for now.

[Fishbreath]

I am very sorry to hear of your unfortunate run in today Larry. I to have noticed, as well as others, that there is a whole new attitude that has arrived at Vail in the last few months. What used to be a nice quite lake, has now become something quite different. I now refuse to go into the "parking lot" area that you are referring to.

Hi, Art. I actually was not in the cove, but I was in that end of the lake. I think I just happened to be where they wanted to fish. They were still sitting right there four hours later when I left. This was my first time out in two weeks, because I had to go to Hawaii last week. It was right where I caught several of the big fish I was telling you about when I went "swinging for the fences" two weeks ago. That day no one even came within two hundred yards of where I was fishing. I was not a big fan of the "shad party" when everyone sat on the only school of shad in the lake, but now that the shad are scattered, in my opinion the fishermen should be too. Just me I guess.

[ART HILL]

fishbreath, now i know why you were telling stories about drop shotting not being a small fish tecnique on that other site. art, i believe i made a comment about a picture you posted on that other site about Vail being pretty expensive to have four boats within fifty feet of one another and you said it was a rarity. looks like everybody's feeling the squeeze. guess i'll stick with Casitas for now.


There has been a major rush of new members. Things have really changed since December.

[bass assassin#23]

sorry about your encounter with some real jerks. there is not very much you can do with people like that. hope you caught some fish though.

bass assassin#23

[Pete Marino]

Im sorry to hear about that happening to you.
I was fishing yesterday next to Joel and he told me that the same type of thing happened to him. He asked me what I would have said and done...My response to him was "it would depend on the circumstances."
If its a tournament and I feel like a person is being rude and crowding me with no regard..then I let them know it right away.
If Im out fun fishing and someone wants to move in and fish by me, Im okay with it but I at least like for them to be polite and AT LEAST acknowledge me and not act like Im not there... Thats flat out rude in my opinion.
I never mind sharing a spot when Im fun fishing or guiding.
Yesterday for instance I told Donny to squeeze in and fish for the same fish as us because they were biting great. I didnt mind at all.. We caught fish and talked and laughed and everyone had a good time. Thats what its all about.
Joel told me that someone (maybe the same guy that you had a problem with, I dont know) was rude to him and squeezed him out of the spot he was fishing. If it was the same guy hopefully something is done about it because most everyone gets along good out there and thats the way it should stay!!

Pete:Cool:

PS... nice job on the bass and cats.. those big cats pull hard dont they. :Big Grin:

[FISHINGBEE]

Alright i was really lucky to have fished Vail Lake before it was private. What i would do is cast over there line every time the are casting. This will become very annoying and usually ttey will leave. Trust me i do it all the time. Cast something stupid and cheap if they cut your line. Try not to retrieve the mess yourself let them un tangle your line. Do this till they leave if you leave they won and you loose. It also helps if your fishing buddy is 6 foot 4 and 300 pounds. If i am there first i back down to no one.


FISHINGBEE

[Fishbreath]

Im sorry to hear about that happening to you.
I was fishing yesterday next to Joel and he told me that the same type of thing happened to him. He asked me what I would have said and done...My response to him was "it would depend on the circumstances."
If its a tournament and I feel like a person is being rude and crowding me with no regard..then I let them know it right away.
If Im out fun fishing and someone wants to move in and fish by me, Im okay with it but I at least like for them to be polite and AT LEAST acknowledge me and not act like Im not there... Thats flat out rude in my opinion.
I never mind sharing a spot when Im fun fishing or guiding.
Yesterday for instance I told Donny to squeeze in and fish for the same fish as us because they were biting great. I didnt mind at all.. We caught fish and talked and laughed and everyone had a good time. Thats what its all about.
Joel told me that someone (maybe the same guy that you had a problem with, I dont know) was rude to him and squeezed him out of the spot he was fishing. If it was the same guy hopefully something is done about it because most everyone gets along good out there and thats the way it should stay!!

Pete:Cool:

PS... nice job on the bass and cats.. those big cats pull hard dont they. :Big Grin:

It was the same people Joel was talking about. I'm over it. I enjoy sociable fishing as well. I thoroughly enjoyed watching and talking with you and your client in the cove last month. Ever time your guest hooked up the look on his face reminded me why I love this sport. It was amazing watching you coach him from not knowing when he was bit to becoming quite proficient at catching them.

Yes, those catfish do stretch your line a little. I was looking back in my log, and last May the same thing happened. They are the reason I went to nothing less than 10# line. It just took too long to get the big ones in on lighter line. I almost did not enjoy the 8 lb bass as much as I should have this morning, because I thought it was another big cat at first. I soon realized from the head shakes and the speed of the runs that it was a bass though. It never did try to come up and jump.

[FISHINGBEE]

Im sorry to hear about that happening to you.
I was fishing yesterday next to Joel and he told me that the same type of thing happened to him. He asked me what I would have said and done...My response to him was "it would depend on the circumstances."
If its a tournament and I feel like a person is being rude and crowding me with no regard..then I let them know it right away.
If Im out fun fishing and someone wants to move in and fish by me, Im okay with it but I at least like for them to be polite and AT LEAST acknowledge me and not act like Im not there... Thats flat out rude in my opinion.
I never mind sharing a spot when Im fun fishing or guiding.
Yesterday for instance I told Donny to squeeze in and fish for the same fish as us because they were biting great. I didnt mind at all.. We caught fish and talked and laughed and everyone had a good time. Thats what its all about.
Joel told me that someone (maybe the same guy that you had a problem with, I dont know) was rude to him and squeezed him out of the spot he was fishing. If it was the same guy hopefully something is done about it because most everyone gets along good out there and thats the way it should stay!!

Pete:Cool:

PS... nice job on the bass and cats.. those big cats pull hard dont they. :Big Grin: Most of the time i never mind sharing fish spots. Rude inconsiderant people no way.


FISHINGBEE

[Pete Marino]

Most of the time I dont mind sharing spots. But if they come in on me with their heads down acting like they dont see me, not wanting eye contact then I say something. A little niceness goes a long way with me.

Pete:Cool:

[lurk 182]

I almost did not enjoy the 8 lb bass as much as I should have this morning, because I thought it was another big cat at first. I soon realized from the head shakes and the speed of the runs that it was a bass though. It never did try to come up and jump.

ooh, i had a big fish come unbottoned on a crankbait last week after like thirty seconds that never jumped and didn't shake his head like he shood have but pulled ten pound no problem the whole time. i convinced myself it was a carp or a foul hooked monster so i can sleep.

[Fishbreath]

ooh, i had a big fish come unbottoned on a crankbait last week after like thirty seconds that never jumped and didn't shake his head like he shood have but pulled ten pound no problem the whole time. i convinced myself it was a carp or a foul hooked monster so i can sleep.

Your crankbait monster may well have been a catfish. I caught a 13 lb catfish on a Shad Rap last year. As a matter of fact, I have caught them on almost everything in my tackle box. Vail is full of those things. It is one of the by-products of total catch and release. Just my opinion, but I think that so many years of catch and release have also caused the dumbest and most aggressive bass to be over-represented in the gene pool. That is not an argument for anything other than catch and release. I have done it for years even in lakes that do not require it.

[tpfishnfool]

Next time just pull up and kick there *** man !! Take no quarter bro !!

[goseango]

Sorry to hear this Fishbreath. Vail is a diff animal this year with the lake mgr whoring out the lake. I pretty much stopped going because the same thing happens while fishing from shore. Hopefully once summer hits and the weather heats up the clowns will go away.

[Fisharrow]

Sorry to hear about the hassle you had to go through. I'm a new member at Vail and would absolutely never put up with that kind of behavior from anyone. Not all new members are without manners! As always, takes 1 or 2 knuckle heads to muddy up the water. Great that you caught the fish you did!
Glad you're over it. :Cool:

[Fishbreath]

Sorry to hear about the hassle you had to go through. I'm a new member at Vail and would absolutely never put up with that kind of behavior from anyone. Not all new members are without manners! As always, takes 1 or 2 knuckle heads to muddy up the water. Great that you caught the fish you did!
Glad you're over it. :Cool:

Thank you for posting Fisharrow. For the record, I would like to say that I harbor no resentment toward the new members, especially since I am not exactly a long-time member myself. I have the luxury of fishing weekdays, and right now there do not seem to be as many boats out on a typical day as there were last year. That may be because the fishing is different than it was last year. Last year at this time, if you could make a cast, you could have a 100 bass day. You could catch fish whatever your favorite way was to fish. The fishing was actually better this year from mid-January through mid-March than it is now, and the number of boats out reflected that. I chose the word "different" to describe this year, because for me it has been better, because I have been lucky enough to catch a lot of very nice fish this spring. I am not a pro, just a casual hobbyist, so my expectations are not especially high, but I have caught dozens of 6+ lb bass and five 8lbs or over so far this year. Before Vail I would sometimes go years with catching an 8 lb bass. What I do miss about the "good ole' days" is that we did not have to wait until 6:00 AM for the quagga inspection. You could let yourself in, and the ranger would check the pass on your dash later in the morning. See you on the water, or more likely see you waiting in line for the lake to open. Larry

[BigBass777]

Those guys should be kicked off the lake with a no admittance entrance to the lake. If someone acts like that in 2 separate situations, then they don't belong on a nice and quiet lake. Glad they didn't wreck your fishing day.

[TShooter]

Last week we were fishing a point minding our own business when another boat comes up and tries to fish the point we are already fishing on. He tries to move in and we had to keep him back by nudging him out of the zone. what does he do? He pulls up his trolling motor and we think "hey he finally got the hint" No, he acts like he is going to pull out and then does a crazy ivan and tries to slide in on our back side. What the heck was that all about?

I have been fishing that lake now for about 5 years and it used to be that only a handful of boats were ever there. However that lake is being pimped out big time now! Between the guides who post all their great catches to the tournaments that are being allowed to fish. A couple of weeks ago we pulled up bright and early and were amazed that there were almost thirty boats already on the water. When we asked what was going on we were told that there was a club that wanted to try out the lake prior to becoming members :EyePop: WHAT?!

I also think that with DV the way it is now is adding to the situation.

[Fishbreath]

I blame the shad phenomenon in the large cove for some of the encroachment problems we are seeing now. I joined in a couple of times, and I had a blast, but that was not a normal situation. People did not seem to realize that the situation was unusual, and in a normal situation it is not OK for every boat on the lake to be in the same spot. I usually work an area very slowly and very methodically. I do not appreciate being squeezed while I am doing it. Don't get me wrong, I love to swap lies with others on the lake, and I will go over a say hi, but I keep my distance and certainly make no effort to fish with them unless invited. And I like for people to come say hi to me as well. I am really not the old grump that I may come off as.

[JKitz]

Larry I am sorry to hear about that. I am also a new member there and try to treat people with the utmost respect. Hopefully they will get a 3rd call real soon and something is done to them. Its just a shame because that lake is about to go buck wild on the artificial baits. The shad bite was fun but I switched back and I am getting it handed to me right now, but working through it..

Anyhow, sorry to hear about this. I am a big guy in a beat up Tracker Pro185. So if you feel that I have ever done anything out of line, I just hope someone will call me out on it. There are those occasions when its not done intentional, but it sounds like this is not the case.

Like Pete said, I dont mind at all sharing a spot just as long as you acknowledge me and give me a little respect by asking if its cool to fish up close. 99 times out of 100, I do not mind whatsoever. That other 1 is because it was my "time of the month" (every guy gets that at least once a year, usually due to the wife at home)..

Anyhow, hope to see all you knuckleheads on the water.

[Fishthewhaler]

Thats what happens when you blast out how great a spot is, and this and that, and how easy it is to get your shad. 110plus fish in a day etc. Of course you're gonna get a bunch of idiots on your spot. If it was a public lake there would have been so much pressure that bite wouldn't have developed. Just my 2 cents but some things are better left unsaid. Or at least just PM guys you can trust with info and leave it at that. Putting it out there for the world too see ,you're lucky you only had 1 boat on you. We deal with that b.s in public lakes all of the time. It does sound kinda like you guys are getting a bit congested up there. It was rude what he did, but it happens all the time, just like my lake lice post. It's the part that makes fishing unenjoyable.

[HuskerRod]

Do they allow jet skis and skiers on Vail?????

[JKitz]

Do they allow jet skis and skiers on Vail?????

Yep and that's a whole different story... I am just glad some of them play cool music because you can hear it from the other side of the lake. They need to make wireless waterproof head phones for the riders because I know its so loud so they can hear it while on the water, but its kind of annoying especially if you are grinding it out on teh fish and looking for a reason to blame your crappy day. But at the price they pay to play, i will not say anything. Just don't play country music and I am fine.

[Fishbreath]

Do they allow jet skis and skiers on Vail?????

No on the jet skis, but yes on water skiers. Their membership fees are twice as high. I have not found them to be a big problem. I get annoyed by their loud music sometimes, but it is what it is. I don't expect the skiers to understand the fine points of fishing protocol, so with no expectations I am not disappointed. As long they don't pose any danger to me or others, I am OK with them. So far, I have not seen anything dangerous, but there again, I do not fish on weekends, when they are probably out in force.

Edit: My biggest complaint about the ski boats is that sometimes they are not very organized with the launch and load. They seem to tie up the single lane ramp for a long time, even longer that I do when I am launching by myself.

[Fisharrow]

Yes, I'll see you guys on the water this year as well. I'm also new to this board and appreciate the candid posts some of you like Art H., Pete M., Fishbreath and others provide about the fishing and the results of your day excursions. I intend to post after my trips to Vail.
On the water I'll be the guy with the blue and white Champ with a 175 Merc.
I mostly use artificials and, can count on one hand, the times I've ever fished for Largemouth bass using live bait(s). I'd like to learn how to fish using live shad. I may just idle by and ask a few questions.:LOL:
Who knows, I just might stick a trophy sized bucketmouth!:ROFL:

[gletemfeelsteelgary]

Real sorry to hear about that whole thing, theres always some idiots in every corner of this world unfortunately.

Fotunately, for you...it seems like it won't be long before they get their 3rd complaint and something is done about it...

we all don't need that kind of madness when we're out fishing and having a good time.

Good luck with that and congrats on the fine catches..

How about some pics ???

[ART HILL]

If you have noticed, I have not posted a guide trip report in over a month. I felt that I was the reason for all the increased boat traffic. If I had not started posting trip reports, the memberships would be less, and you would have less guides working there. I should have kept my business to myself.

There are now other guides besides Pete, Mike, and myself who are guiding on Vail, but they are keeping in on the downlow. And now another well known guide is trying to get in there as well, or so I was told this week. Soon there will be more guides than fisherman. Just a year ago, I was the only guide there.

[Fishbreath]

Real sorry to hear about that whole thing, theres always some idiots in every corner of this world unfortunately.

Fotunately, for you...it seems like it won't be long before they get their 3rd complaint and something is done about it...

we all don't need that kind of madness when we're out fishing and having a good time.

Good luck with that and congrats on the fine catches..

How about some pics ???

How about some pics ???? Be careful what you ask for! I have not taken very many bass pictures recently. My wife says they all look alike anyway. Besides, I never do them justice, because of my size at 6' 3" and hands big enough to palm a basketball. I do have a shot from yesterday of the one that 8 lbs. I feel obligated to record anything 8 lbs and over. Unfortunately, it is one of those crappy arm's length shots, because I did not bother to fill the live well and set up for a timer shot. I will also include some other recent ones.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa24/Fishbreath92028/May2020098lbs.jpg

Here is another one that is 8 lbs from a couple of weeks ago, my previous time out. It is the biggest fish in a 32 lb best five. No shad used that day. Note the red and swollen vent and the red anal and caudal fins. Also the loose belly. This girl had just laid her eggs. A late spawner on May 6th.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa24/Fishbreath92028/Slideshow/LarryMay620092.jpg

Here is one from February which was 8 lbs 14 oz and was the best fish in a personal best five fish limit of 35 lb 1 oz. Again, no shad.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa24/Fishbreath92028/Slideshow/Feb262009002.jpg

Since we are on a roll here. Here is a typical Vail catfish. Not the biggest I have caught there, but the best picture I have.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa24/Fishbreath92028/Slideshow/Catfish015.jpg

[crappiemike]

it must be summer or vail is handing out permits for the money...


cm

[Str8t Slabaronies]

I got a 2 oz lead weight for situations like you had. I'll throw the flag for encrouchment first...but if they don't take heed...I'm slanging it! :LOL:

Nice pics / fish Larry...got some Hawgs there and thats a very nice cat!

[Fishbreath]

I got a 2 oz lead weight for situations like you had. I'll throw the flag for encrouchment first...but if they don't take heed...I'm slanging it! :LOL:

Nice pics / fish Larry...got some Hawgs there and thats a very nice cat!

Thanks, Roy. And thanks to everyone for the advice. For me it is fun to think about such things, but violence is not in my nature(even when I was young and strapping like you), and escalating this kind of incident into a physical confrontation only lets the bullies win. I got it off my chest, and I am over it. Let's go fishing.

[goseango]

DVL closing has had the BIGGEST impact Art.....dont let the haters get you down. Lake manager selling group discounts for 1/2 the advertised price has not helped as well.:Rolls Eyes:


If you have noticed, I have not posted a guide trip report in over a month. I felt that I was the reason for all the increased boat traffic. If I had not started posting trip reports, the memberships would be less, and you would have less guides working there. I should have kept my business to myself.

There are now other guides besides Pete, Mike, and myself who are guiding on Vail, but they are keeping in on the downlow. And now another well known guide is trying to get in there as well, or so I was told this week. Soon there will be more guides than fisherman. Just a year ago, I was the only guide there.

[Pete Marino]

We can NOT let these incidents get us down about Vail. Most of the members that Ive met are great guys who love to fish and who are polite on the water. Please remember that we can not let a couple bad apples get us down and/or allow it to change the way we think about Vail. It is a great lake and it is run very well.

We, "members" should make it a point to be polite to each other on the water because simply put...Niceness rubs off!!! Treat others as you want to be treated and things will be fine. If you have a problem with someone then simply report them to the office and they will handle it accordingly.
Two wrongs DOES NOT make a right so retaliating to someones wrong actions with wrong actions of your own make YOU part of the problem and brings you down to some knuckleheads level.
If somebody wants to act like those guys that Joel and Larry had a problem with then its going to be their loss when they lose their lake rights. Simple as that.
I, as I said, think us members need to be kind to each other on the water and not be boneheads to each other. Eventually the boneheads will be removed if thats how the choose to be, in which case WE win the war. :Wink:


tight lines...

Pete:Cool:

[Hitts0n]

Maybe they thought you where the Best Guide in the world! Trout0nly!:Shocked:.So thats why they were following you.....J/k :ROFL:

[HuskerRod]

Guys,

I think until DVL re-opens to private boats places like Vail and Perris will get the brunt of the runoff. I'm super cheap, we are talking mizer cheap, and I even considered joining Vail and paying the big membership to float tube it. All those pics and great reports literally had me on the edge of my seat with enthusiasm to get out there. It still sounds like a great place.

Huskerrod

[holymolar]

Wouldn't you have loved to see the face on that guy when he found out that Joel, the fisherman on the second boat that he tried to crowd out, is a Vail Lake ranger? Some people don’t realize that Joel is a ranger because he doesn’t check the boats in and out. He lives in a trailer on the property and watches after the lake at night after it closes. He doesn’t try to hide the fact that he is a ranger but he doesn’t wear the ranger’s hat until he has to do something official. He basically spends his time fishing the lake almost every day and is the on-the-water eyes and ears of Vail Lake. He’s a pretty nice guy, very approachable, and a darn good fisherman. If you are a member, try to meet him so you’ll know who to report an incident to should the need arise. He is especially helpful when a ski boat is playing loud music, which of course isn’t allowed on the lake.

[bassattack]

Sorry to hear you had a bad time. Next time shoot a flare at them:Guns:.
I agree with the flare gun thing...that would pre-occupy thwm

[GLB]

File the complaint
Take the time and file it.

GLB

[vagabond]

hey fishbreath,mad props to you man,it shows you really have mad respect even to fools that dont deserve it..im the type of person that could really put ahurt in you if you are acting stupid..specially if your f%$#@ with my fishing time..bring your A.K next time..