"Pirate" Issue

[fishing_addict]

Here's an idea... start using decoy ships with a crew of Marines...??? Now that would be sweet...

[DarkShadow]

Here's an idea... start using decoy ships with a crew of Marines...??? Now that would be sweet...

Put that iish on TV and you'll take November sweeps thanks to this new reality show.

[Cangler]

Hung , drawn and quater used to work well ....

[sktruth]

maybe if people stopped dropping raw sewage off the somalia coast and stop killing the fishery maybe the pirates would go back to what they use to do, FISH.

[fishslayer01]

its leagal for ships to carry arms, they just need to mount a couple of 50 Caliber machine guns and maybe hire some of those Blackwater dudes to man them.

[DarkShadow]

its leagal for ships to carry arms, they just need to mount a couple of 50 Caliber machine guns and maybe hire some of those Blackwater dudes to man them.

I'm sure the insurance companies that insure these vessels would LOVE to hear about 50 cals mounted to the bows of ships and soldiers of fortune manning them.

[fishing_addict]

its leagal for ships to carry arms, they just need to mount a couple of 50 Caliber machine guns and maybe hire some of those Blackwater dudes to man them.

Where do I sign up?:Smile:

[Atlaua]

Here's an idea... start using decoy ships with a crew of Marines...??? Now that would be sweet...

Um....

....yeah, I have a bunch of unused cargo container ships in my backyard - I was going to lease them out and turn a huge profit transporting actual CARGO, but to heck with it - tell the Navy they can pick them up at any time.

[fishing_addict]

maybe if people stopped dropping raw sewage off the somalia coast and stop killing the fishery maybe the pirates would go back to what they use to do, FISH.

Or maybe if the country was even somewhat under control of someone who wasn't high on khat leading a bunch of street thugs shooting AK's and RPG's around town then things could start to improve as well... bottom line the country is a total mess. But, stopping the dumping would be a nice start.

[Skyler]

They need to just fill a few crates with C-4 and a couple detonators, and label the crates "SAMSUNG FLATSCREEN TV'S." Then let 'em grab 'em and run, he he he he...

[fishing_addict]

Um....

....yeah, I have a bunch of unused cargo container ships in my backyard - I was going to lease them out and turn a huge profit transporting actual CARGO, but to heck with it - tell the Navy they can pick them up at any time.

Um.. or we could use any of the hundreds of seized boats used by drug smugglers... after all their not just targeting cargo ships... :Wink:

[Skyler]

They need to just fill a few crates with C-4 and a couple detonators, and label the crates "SAMSUNG FLATSCREEN TV'S." Then let 'em grab 'em and run, he he he he...

In addition, I think we should fill the crates up halfway with snake-bearing flyers that read "Don't Tread on me." Make an example out of them, Lol.

[fishing_addict]

Or better yet, (I figured someone had to say it) just fire off a few ICBM's with nuc tips and turn the whole region and it's desert's to glass. We gotta start controling the population somehow... if we stop nature from thinning the herd (fighting diseases) then who else/what else is gonna do it? We would need a hell of a lot more tsunami's and earthquakes... If we keep doing it like rabbitts we're gonna be up to our necks in _________. (fill in the blank) Besides, how bad off would the earth really be if people were wiped out? Hmmmm.... I wonder. The party has to end sometime folks...

[Atlaua]

Um.. or we could use any of the hundreds of seized boats used by drug smugglers... after all their not just targeting cargo ships... :Wink:

To date, Somali pirates have captured over 60 merchant vessels - clearly their targets of choice. Fishing vessels have been a distant second (less than 10), followed by tugboats (about 5), cruise ships (less than 5) and yachts (less than 5).

Call me crazy, but sending a bunch of seized yachts loaded with sailors & marines just might tip off the pirates.

[Skyler]

Besides, how bad off would the earth really be if people were wiped out?

I think a better question is how bad off WE would be if the earth was wiped out instead. At this point, it seems more plausible than the first option.

[fishing_addict]

To date, Somali pirates have captured over 60 merchant vessels - clearly their targets of choice. Fishing vessels have been a distant second (less than 10), followed by tugboats (about 5), cruise ships (less than 5) and yachts (less than 5).

Call me crazy, but sending a bunch of seized yachts loaded with sailors & marines just might tip off the pirates.

The type of tactics these guys are using are going to continue to evolve with every change we try to make in order to make shipping safer. Honestly all kidding aside I think the only way to stop or at least drastically reduce the pirate attacks is to simply put a small armed team (4-5 guys) on board these ships. The only way to combat primitive attacks is by countering with primitive defenses/attacks. We keep doing things the way we have been we'll end up like the British did during the revolution (figuatively speaking). Or even better, like we did in Vietnam...

[fishing_addict]

I think a better question is how bad off WE would be if the earth was wiped out instead. At this point, it seems more plausible than the first option.

No doubt....

Off to work, catch ya'll later! Tight lines to all... after all that's what it's all about.

[DarkShadow]

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2241/piratefisherman.jpg

"Y'all know me. Know how I earn a livin'. I'll catch these pirates for you, but it ain't gonna be easy. Bad men. Not like going down the pond chasin' bluegills and tommycods. These pirates, capture you whole. Little shakin', little tenderizin', an' down you go. And we gotta do it quick, that'll bring back your tourists, put all your businesses on a payin' basis. But it's not gonna be pleasant. I value my neck a lot more than three thousand bucks, chief. I'll find them for three, but I'll catch them, and kill them, for ten. But you've gotta make up your minds. If you want to stay alive, then ante up. If you want to play it cheap, be on welfare the whole winter. I don't want no volunteers, I don't want no mates, there's just too many captains on this island. Ten thousand dollars for me by myself. For that you get their heads, the hostages, the whole damn thing."

[fishing_addict]

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2241/piratefisherman.jpg

"y'all know me. Know how i earn a livin'. I'll catch these pirates for you, but it ain't gonna be easy. Bad men. Not like going down the pond chasin' bluegills and tommycods. These pirates, capture you whole. Little shakin', little tenderizin', an' down you go. And we gotta do it quick, that'll bring back your tourists, put all your businesses on a payin' basis. But it's not gonna be pleasant. I value my neck a lot more than three thousand bucks, chief. I'll find them for three, but i'll catch them, and kill them, for ten. But you've gotta make up your minds. If you want to stay alive, then ante up. If you want to play it cheap, be on welfare the whole winter. I don't want no volunteers, i don't want no mates, there's just too many captains on this island. Ten thousand dollars for me by myself. For that you get their heads, the hostages, the whole damn thing."

OMG.... I just laughed so hard coffee almost came out of my nose

[lurk 182]

good thinking, circle hook should get em right in the corner of the mouth, which is great for preserving the fishery.

[Hitts0n]

Lots of mature responces here.......

[Webfoot]

Live by the bullet, Die by the bullet!

[Liteliner]

You guys hear that SPIKE TV just got a deal to do a reality show with the navy. Kinda like cops i guess. Now everybody can live it......:Razz:

http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/04/spike-tv-pirate-reality-show.html

[JSAUCE818]

Lots of mature responces here.......
stop acting like your sh*t dont stink hitts:ROFL:..what up my dude, catfish season is coming,..get at me.

[smokinflies]

Live by the bullet, Die by the bullet!

well, those pirates died by the bullet yesterday. those fools got sniped.


did you guys know when the u.s. assembled the navy, they recruited pirates.

[sansou]

did you guys know when the u.s. assembled the navy, they recruited pirates.

I thought the US Navy was formed as a result of the Barbary Coast pirates. I didn't know we hired them?

Do you have a link supporting your contention?

[Skyler]

Lots of mature responces here.......

Immature actions often require immature reactions to be resolved...

[See Chris Fish]

well, those pirates died by the bullet yesterday. those fools got sniped.


did you guys know when the u.s. assembled the navy, they recruited pirates.

Privateers, not pirates. Privateers were patriot sailors that captured British ships and then took the "prize" back to the colonies. They were working for the Congress. Kinda like pirates, but not.

[sansou]

Privateers, not pirates. Privateers were patriot sailors that captured British ships and then took the "prize" back to the colonies. They were working for the Congress. Kinda like pirates, but not.


Aha! That makes way more sense.

Thanks.

[Troutman65]

Thats the way to take care of them theifing , hostage taking pirates.

Don't Tread on Me. Sure applies here.

[Hitts0n]

Immature actions often require immature reactions to be resolved...



So 2 wrongs do make a right ? Ok cool.....

[Hitts0n]

stop acting like your sh*t dont stink hitts:ROFL:..what up my dude, catfish season is coming,..get at me.


Im going tomorrow ! :Secret:

[Skyler]

So 2 wrongs do make a right ? Ok cool.....

I'm so tired of that expression. I'll just bring up the Nazi example again, but in a different light. If two wrongs didn't make a right, we would have gone on Dr. Phil with Hitler instead of bombing the hell out of him, right? As you can see, there are always exceptions to said 'golden rule.' And for that matter, who decides the difference between right and wrong anyway? Your concept of two wrongs may be my concept of a right followed by a wrong, or a wrong followed by a right, or a right followed by another right. I've learned that Newton's Third Law applies in the real world far more than your "two wrongs" saying. The way I have seen it so far, this is what cause and effect is all about: "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." They (the pirates) made an action that invoked a negative reaction, and incidentally got what nature had in store for them. Their decision made their destiny. Fate up against their will...You can't fight that, period. In my opinion, they deserve death, as they were too stupid to realize they were flirting with it the whole time. Tight lines.

[Troutman65]

I'm so tired of that expression. I'll just bring up the Nazi example again, but in a different light. If two wrongs didn't make a right, we would have gone on Dr. Phil with Hitler instead of bombing the hell out of him, right? As you can see, there are always exceptions to said 'golden rule.' And for that matter, who decides the difference between right and wrong anyway? Your concept of two wrongs may be my concept of a right followed by a wrong, or a wrong followed by a right, or a right followed by another right. I've learned that Newton's Third Law applies in the real world far more than your "two wrongs" saying. The way I have seen it so far, this is what cause and effect is all about: "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." They (the pirates) made an action that invoked a negative reaction, and incidentally got what nature had in store for them. Their decision made their destiny. Fate up against their will...You can't fight that, period. In my opinion, they deserve death, as they were too stupid to realize they were flirting with it the whole time. Tight lines.



Skyler, I agree with you !,000 % !!!!

Those rat basards got just what was coming to them :Smile:

[sktruth]

They (the pirates) made an action that invoked a negative reaction, and incidentally got what nature had in store for them. Their decision made their destiny. Fate up against their will...You can't fight that, period. In my opinion, they deserve death, as they were too stupid to realize they were flirting with it the whole time. Tight lines. ]

I personally think it was the illiegal fishing fleet without any permits or anything that invoked a nagative reaction. That was the main reason that the piracy began. They believed it was their only recourse. They took it to the united nations for nothing. They would meet these unlicensed and un-permited fleets. The fleets refused to leave, then the fishing fleets started dumping toxic waste into the Somalia fishing grounds. Funny how we see the pirates on tv but we never here their story huh? Here's a little something for everyone.

AMY GOODMAN: President Obama vowed an international crackdown to halt piracy off the coast of Somalia Monday soon after the freeing of US cargo ship captain Richard Phillips, who had been held hostage by Somali pirates since last Wednesday. Three Somali pirates were killed in the US operation.


While some military analysts are considering attacks on pirate bases inside Somalia in addition to expanding US Navy gunships along the Somali coastline, others are strongly opposed to a land invasion. US Congress member Donald Payne of New Jersey made a brief visit to the Somali capital of Mogadishu Monday and said piracy was, quote, a “symptom of the decades of instability.” His plane was targeted by mortar fire as he was leaving Somalia, soon after a pirate vowed revenge against the United States for killing his men.


Former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton told Fox News over the weekend that the US should assemble a, quote, “coalition of the willing” to invade Somalia.


Meanwhile, local fishing and business communities along the Somali coast are suffering as a result of the increased American and international naval presence in their waters.


SOMALI FISHERMAN: [translated] American Marine forces always arrest us as we continue fishing. We meet their warships, and at times they send helicopters to take photos of us, as they suspect we are pirates. And we are not.


SOMALI BUSINESSMAN: [translated] People are worried about the troops, as it is becoming more and more difficult to do business. There’s a lot of warships patrolling the sea, and merchant ships are getting more and more checked, thinking they are operated by pirates.



AMY GOODMAN: While the pirates story has dominated the corporate media, there has been little to no discussion of the root causes driving piracy.


Mohamed Abshir Waldo is a consultant and analyst in Kenya. He is Kenyan of Somali origin. In January, he wrote a paper called “The Two Piracies in Somalia: Why the World Ignores the Other?” He joins us on the phone right now from Mombasa.


Welcome to Democracy Now!


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: Hello. Thank you.


AMY GOODMAN: Good to have you with us. Can you talk about what you think the two piracies are?


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: Well, the two piracies are the original one, which was foreign fishing piracy by foreign trawlers and vessels, who at the same time were dumping industrial waste, toxic waste and, it also has been reported, nuclear waste. Most of the time, we feel it’s the same fishing vessels, foreign fishing vessels, that are doing both. That was the piracy that started all these problems.


And the other piracy is the shipping piracy. When the marine resources of Somalia was pillaged, when the waters were poisoned, when the fish was stolen, and in a poverty situation in the whole country, the fishermen felt that they had no other possibilities or other recourse but to fight with, you know, the properties and the shipping of the same countries that have been doing and carrying on the fishing piracy and toxic dumping.


AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what IUUs are?


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: IUUs are—I don’t remember now, but it’s uninterrupted an unreported fishing, unlicensed, unreported, uncontrolled, practically, fishing. Without [inaudible]—


AMY GOODMAN: In your article, you say—in your article, you say it stands for illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing fleets from Europe—


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: Correct.


AMY GOODMAN: —and Arabia and the Far East.


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: Correct, correct. And this has been known to both the countries in the West that had these fishing fleets, which included Spain, Italy, Greece, and eventually UK and others who joined later, as well as Russian. And, of course, there were many more from the East. And this problem has been going on since 1991. And the fishing communities and fishermen reported and complained and appealed to the international community through the United Nations, through the European Union, with no, actually, response in any form at all. They were totally ignored.


AMY GOODMAN: Mohamed Abshir Waldo, explain how what you call “fishing piracy” began.


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: Fishing piracy means fishing without license, fishing by force, even though the community complains, even though whatever authorities are there complain, even though they ask these foreign fishing fleets and trawlers and vessels that have no license, that have no permit whatsoever, when they tell them, “Stop fishing and get out of the area,” they refuse, and instead, in fact, they fight. They fought with the fishermen and coastal communities, pouring boiling water on them and even shooting at them, running over their canoes and fishing boats. These were the problems that had been going on for so long, until the community organized themselves and empowered, actually, what they call the National Volunteer Coast Guard, what you would call and what others call today as “pirates.”


AMY GOODMAN: So you’re saying illegal fishing is happening off the coast of Somalia. What countries are engaged in it?


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: The countries engaged include practically all of southern Europe, France, Spain, Greece, UK. Nowadays I hear even Norway. There were not many Scandinavians before, but Norwegian fishing now is involved in this, you know, very profitable fishing business. So, there are others, of course. There are Russian. There are Taiwanese. There are Philippines. There are Koreans. There are Chinese. You know, it’s a free-for-all coast.


And to make things worse, we learned that now that the navies and the warships are there; every country is protecting their own illegal fishing piracies—vessels. They have come back. They ran away from the Somali volunteer guards, coast guards, but now they are back. And they are being protected by their navies. In fact, they are coming close to the territorial waters to harass again the fishermen, who no longer have opportunity or possibility to fish on the coast because of the fear of being called pirates and apprehended by the navy, who are at the same time protecting the other side.


So the issue is really a matter of tremendous injustice, international community only attending and talking and coming to the rescue of the—of their interests and not at all considering or looking from the Somalis’ side. This does not mean I am condoning or anyone is condoning piracy or endangering the life of innocent sailors and crews or damaging the property of others, but these people, these fishermen-turned-pirates, had no alternative but to protect themselves, to protect their turf, to—you know, an act of desperation, you might call it.


AMY GOODMAN: What do people in Somalia feel about the pirates, the issue of pirates off the coast?


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: A mixed reaction, I think, in Somalia. The people do not want the innocent sailors to be harmed. They don’t want any major environmental disasters to happen by blowing up chemical- or oil-carrying vessels. And they urge the pirates, or fishermen pirates, they urge them not to do any such things.


On the other hand, since there’s no sympathy, there’s no understanding, there is no readiness for dialogue with the coastal community, with the community in general, with the Somali authorities or the regional government or the national government on a joint action for solving these problems, then it’s each for his own way of doing. But the people are very concerned. On the one hand, they would like this to be resolved peacefully; on the other, they feel very sad for injustice being done by the international community.


AMY GOODMAN: A little more on the issue of toxic dumping, if you would, Mohamed Abshir Waldo. I don’t think people in the United States understand exactly what it is you’re referring to and how it affects people.


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: Well, toxic dumping, industrial waste dumping, nuclear dumping, as you are probably aware and have heard and many people know, for quite some time, in the ’70s mainly, in the ’80s, in the ’90s, there was a lot of waste of all these kinds that companies wanted to get rid of, following very strict environmental rules in their countries. So where else to take but in countries in conflict or weak countries who could not prevent them or who could be bought? So these wastes have been carried to Somalia. It’s been in the papers. It has been reported by media organizations like Al Jazeera, I think, like CNN. Many had reported about the Mafia, Italian Mafia, who admitted it, dumping it in Somalia for quite some time, for quite a long time.


And as we speak now, I heard yesterday, in fact, another vessel was captured in the Gulf of Aden by community—this time not pirates, by the community, when the suspected it, and it was carrying two huge containers, which it dumped into the sea when they saw these people coming to them. They have been apprehended. The vessel had been apprehended. Fortunately, the containers did not sink into the sea, but they are being towed to the coast. And this community has invited the international community to come and investigate this matter. So far, we don’t have action. So this dumping, waste dumping, toxic dumping, nuclear waste dumping has been ongoing in Somalia since 1992.


AMY GOODMAN: When I read your article, Mohamed Abshir Waldo, it reminded me of a controversial memo that was leaked from the World Bank—this was when Lawrence Summers, now the chief economic adviser, was the chief economist at the World Bank—in which it said, “I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest-wage country is impeccable, and we should face up to that. I’ve always thought that under-populated countries in Africa are vastly under-polluted.” He said he was being sarcastic.


MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: Actually, the more formal official concerned with this UN habitat has also confirmed in various reports that this has been dumped in Somalia. The special representative of the Secretary-General, Ould-Abdullah, who is now working with the Somali authorities, has also, I think, made a statement to that effect. So it is very well known. It’s not something hidden. It’s not something we are making up. The world knows, but it doesn’t do anything about it.


AMY GOODMAN: Mohamed Abshir Waldo, thank you for joining us, a consultant in Kenya, speaking to us from Mombasa.

THIS WAS TAKEN FROM DEMOCRACYNOW.ORG

[Webfoot]

sktruth,

I'm aware of and understand your trusted sources "facts". Its great to see someone stand up on Somalia's behalf and champion their issues. Which Warlord in the Somalia's "government" should we address said issues with?

[Atlaua]

MOHAMED ABSHIR WALDO: Well, the two piracies are the original one, which was foreign fishing piracy by foreign trawlers and vessels, who at the same time were dumping industrial waste, toxic waste and, it also has been reported, nuclear waste. Most of the time, we feel it’s the same fishing vessels, foreign fishing vessels, that are doing both. That was the piracy that started all these problems.


And the other piracy is the shipping piracy. When the marine resources of Somalia was pillaged, when the waters were poisoned, when the fish was stolen, and in a poverty situation in the whole country, the fishermen felt that they had no other possibilities or other recourse but to fight with, you know, the properties and the shipping of the same countries that have been doing and carrying on the fishing piracy and toxic dumping.

Excellent points.

It is unfortunate that the ongoing civil war has prevented Somalia's voice from being heard in international forums. Though there are many other factors to this crisis, the reaction from toxic dumping and illegal fishing are understandable. I do find it unlikely, however, that the pirates are supporting fishing villages and other suffering Somali civilians. Rather, I believe their piracy is funding warlords in the civil war.

[sktruth]

It is unfortunate that the ongoing civil war has prevented Somalia's voice from being heard in international forums. Though there are many other factors to this crisis, the reaction from toxic dumping and illegal fishing are understandable. I do find it unlikely, however, that the pirates are supporting fishing villages and other suffering Somali civilians. Rather, I believe their piracy is funding warlords in the civil war.

I agree with you on that. I do believe that most of the pirates started as fisherman. I doun't doubt that many of the pirates turned to greed.

[greeper]

sktruth,

I'm aware of and understand your trusted sources "facts". Its great to see someone stand up on Somalia's behalf and champion their issues. Which Warlord in the Somalia's "government" should we address said issues with?


Aw crap that's hilarious:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL :

We should bring back the Pre WWII Isolationist policies NOT:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL: Appeasement has worked so well throughout history..

[Hitts0n]

You guys are talking about days we have never seen and never will.Im glad we are sending people their way to talk about whats going on.We all know why other small countries are punking us.....
They seen Iraq did the same thing,punking us.....

[Webfoot]

Remember history has a tendency to repeat itself. There is a time & place for negotiating. There are also times were use of Force is obviously required.

[greeper]

You guys are talking about days we have never seen and never will.Im glad we are sending people their way to talk about whats going on.We all know why other small countries are punking us.....
They seen Iraq did the same thing,punking us.....

really enlighten us

[DarkShadow]

really enlighten us

Yeah Greep, all them countries be punkin' us man!

[sansou]

"Don't be punkin' or I be nukin' "

(bumper sticker?)

[olfishergal]

Takes brass balls to pirate an american ship and end up with those nice Navy guns staring down your thorat. Takes stupid to another full level....IMHO....Darwin award? OFG

[Troutman65]

Takes brass balls to pirate an american ship and end up with those nice Navy guns staring down your thorat. Takes stupid to another full level....IMHO....Darwin award? OFG



I second the motion.:Smile::Wink:

[joe man]

I read the excuses given for the piracy but I did not see where they claimed the US had done the fishing areas any harm. If they have a problem with Spain, UK, Russia, or Italy then that is who they need to take action against. I say they went just a little too far when they took a US flagged ship. I can understand that they are desparate but just because they have problems it does not give them the right to lash out at people who have no roll in the issue. I am sorry but I do not hold any sympathy for people who steal from, or harm others without provocation.

[Cangler]

I can all sleep easy now , we've captured a 15 yo pirate and flown
him to NY to face justice ...

[buttflyzzz]

Where do I sign up?:Smile:

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/ is a pretty active group

[joe man]

I can all sleep easy now , we've captured a 15 yo pirate and flown
him to NY to face justice ...

That is 1 less that shipping companies have to worry about. I don't see where his age matters if he is willing to use a gun to commit crimes against people who are doing nothing to him. The problem that I see in all of this is that there were only 3 snipers to go against 4 pirates. Just think if there was 1 more sniper the tax payers would not have to pay for the expenses of the 15 year old that will now become a ward of the US.

[BassFreak]

Remember history has a tendency to repeat itself. There is a time & place for negotiating. There are also times were use of Force is obviously required.

Especially after the fantastic results we had the last time US troops went "into" Somalia.. :EyePop: