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dgfishin
03-23-2009, 02:09 PM
What is a good braid for a beginner? For a 7'6 rod with a 7.1 reel?

Ricky-Ray
03-23-2009, 02:21 PM
Beginner??? As in beginner fisherman? Beginner braid user? Are you fishing freshwater or salt?

dgfishin
03-23-2009, 02:27 PM
Freshwater. Being the pro you are ,any tips?

Ricky-Ray
03-23-2009, 02:52 PM
LOL...I'm mainly a salt guy. The last few times I fish fresh I was using straight mono. Hopefully someone else that fishes fresh can give you some suggestions.

DarkShadow
03-23-2009, 02:53 PM
I've used braid for lots of arts and crafts projects, but never to fish in the fresh.

Is there any reason you want to use braid over regular mono/copoly/flouro?

basscaptain
03-23-2009, 03:12 PM
FORGET THE BRAID but if you have to use it the 1 I have had best luck with is the power pro, I hear good things about the BPS Brand now also and I think people like the sufix brand but I have never used it

I use Braid on 2 rods about 6 weeks out of the year so I don't change it out and have not tryed many brands

sullyfish
03-23-2009, 06:46 PM
suffix.........

Koshaw
03-26-2009, 06:16 AM
I have been using braid for a few weeks for fresh water fishing and have been catching 2-5 fish per outing.

I use 8-10 lb power pro with a 4 lb fluorocarbon leader, carolina keeper. sliding sinker and a treble 16 or #6 blood red tru turn mosquito hook.

Nessie Hunter
03-26-2009, 08:42 AM
99% of freshwater applications are better with Mono type lines..

Braid/Spectra has a tendency to get very loose with every cast/retrieve that does not produce a fish. Next thing is the worst nightmare of a birds nest (professional over run) you will ever see...
Or, swimbaits and big baits, same scenario but a backlash that will break your arm (or pulll the rod/reel right out of your hand - ooooppps, did I say that out loud ??)....

PUDD MASTER BAITER
03-26-2009, 08:43 AM
Every knows im a braid freak only guy ,on all my setups. For shore ,fresh water and salt, i love it for drop shotting ,or any plastic applications. You can feel every little pebble ,due to the no stretch factor. Make sure to tie a triple surgens knot, and use a mono leader, at least 6 ft. Dont tie any thing directly to the braid ,or you will have to cut it off if you get snagged.that stuff is pricy but last forever.a perfect drag stting is a must. If you use it in the salt rinse it. All my braid is is over 3yrs old, and still going strong.

mickeysindahouse
03-26-2009, 08:52 AM
I've recently fallen in love with the Daiwa Samurai Braid but it's a bit expensive. Second in line for me is SUFFIX.

I'm not a fan of PowerPro due to the "stick" factor as a result of the coating they apply on it. Plus, it's not as "rounded" as suffix is so it tends to bury itself into the spool as you wind with pressure at the other end.

My recommendation...go with Suffix unless you feel like a baller, then go SAMURAI.

That Dang Guy
03-26-2009, 10:43 AM
Alot of factors go into the switch over to braid.

What are you going to be fishing with that setup?
What kind of rod is it?
Are you looking for increased capacity?
Are you looking for sensitivity for dropshotting/bottom contact?
Are you looking for strength for flipping/pitching?

Not only do these questions answer if you should switch to braid, it also answers what kind of braid and test strength.

Sometimes it doesn't make sense to switch. For example, Cumaras are made of IM10. Extremely stiff and brittle, but extremely sensitive. They are notorious for breaking tips (thank god for shimano's warranty) and switching to nonstretch braid *might* overwhelm the rod.

lurk 182
03-26-2009, 01:13 PM
yeah, not much to work with. a 7'6" what power rod? the speed of your reel's got very little to do with it. bass fishing is just about all i do and i hardly fish braid at all. are you flipping heavy cover/froggin or something? why does braid seem like a good idea to you?

DarkShadow
03-26-2009, 01:41 PM
Every knows im a braid freak only guy ,on all my setups. For shore ,fresh water and salt, i love it for drop shotting ,or any plastic applications. You can feel every little pebble ,due to the no stretch factor. Make sure to tie a triple surgens knot, and use a mono leader, at least 6 ft. Dont tie any thing directly to the braid ,or you will have to cut it off if you get snagged.that stuff is pricy but last forever.a perfect drag stting is a must. If you use it in the salt rinse it. All my braid is is over 3yrs old, and still going strong.

Ya, it just feels like I'm fishing with dental floss whenever I've tried braid for most freshwater applications.

As people mentioned, I personally believe in my style of fishing, the negatives to having my reels filled with braid outweigh the positives and even the positives aspects of using braid can be achieved by utilizing alternate mediums. Let me set some examples.

• "Braid is SUPER strong and abrasion resistent."

Hopefully your hooksets are super soft or you'll risk having 40 pieces of graphite shattering in your face, unless you have a rod that can sustain the hookset with a no stretch line. You can also tear the bait out of the fish's mouth if you continue with the Bassmaster's hooksets. The braid is not opaque, which means the fish can see it...but..

• "Well, that's why I use flourocarbon/mono leaders."

Well, if strength is what you're looking for in braid, and you're not tying the bait directly, what's the point of your braid being 80# test when you're using an 8# flouro leader? Compound that with the fact that you lose strength when you tie knots or any connectors, in essence, you're now using 6# test, which throws the argument of "Braid is SUPER strong" right out the window, unless you're tying directly...which I think may reduce the number of strikes you get. Also, you have to be extremely careful in the knot you tie to connect your leader, as I've seen even the smallest of mistakes cause the braid to dig into the leader material which results in extremely poor strength at the knot; you've know added another area where your line can possibly fail as well. As the ole sayin' goes, you're only as strong as your weakest link.

• But, DS, It has no stretch, and is extremely sensitive."

Yeah, I've also found that having a combination of a good flourocarbon line (Sunline, Steez, e.g.) and having a sensitive rod (IMX, St Croix, Rogue, Lamiglass, etc.) creates the same sensitivity factor. Add to the fact flouro is a lot more manageable than braid, and doesn't dig in itself and doesn't need special spooling (braid slips if you tie it directly to the reel spool) I continue to go with flouro.

When you can feel a bite in 45 feet of water, with a nice wind, white caps and slack line, I'm confident that the braid is not going to let me feel more strikes than I do with flouro.

Like I said, maybe there are a few situations in the fresh that I'd throw braid, the frog in the slop being the main example. But for every other technique, I just don't see the advantages in using it.

Skyler
03-26-2009, 04:22 PM
You can use braid for freshwater no problem, i've been doing it all year. The sensitivity is unmatched, and you can feel everything your lure is doing. And it is STRONG! But one thing i've learned rather quickly is that unless fishing real deep, it is a good idea to work with a looser drag setting. For several reasons.

1. the low stretch means you can easily rip the hook away from the fish on the hookset, or right through their mouth.

2. it also means that the rod will take the brunt of the fight. This could be bad for some rods. Slower action rods generally work better with braid than faster tapers.

3. The low stretch means less shock absorbing power, making it easier to break off or get unbuttoned.

For these reasons, i like a slower composite rod and a smooth drag set a bit light when using braid. When you set the hook, don't give in to the temptation to nail 'em either. instead reel fast and smoothly pull against the fish hard with a couple of small tugs. This is all the force you need for full penetration. BTW, I don't recommend braid for bait and wait. it seems the extra sensitivity translates into the fish feeling the rod on the his end, and they end up dropping it a lot more. Can't give much advice on baitcasting, as i'm baitcaster challenged, lol. But as for brand, i'm a fan of fireline for spinning gear. Not sure how it would handle on casting gear though. This post will show you why I like it so much:

http://fishingnetwork.net/forum4/showthread.php?t=31190

bassassassin
03-28-2009, 08:31 PM
I've recently fallen in love with the Daiwa Samurai Braid but it's a bit expensive. Second in line for me is SUFFIX.

I'm not a fan of PowerPro due to the "stick" factor as a result of the coating they apply on it. Plus, it's not as "rounded" as suffix is so it tends to bury itself into the spool as you wind with pressure at the other end.

My recommendation...go with Suffix unless you feel like a baller, then go SAMURAI.

just started using the Samurai and it is sweet

mickeysindahouse
03-28-2009, 08:59 PM
just started using the Samurai and it is sweet
Isn't it?!! What pound rating did you get?

I started with 18# (dangerously thin) and worked my way up to 40#.

When I first tried the 40# was afraid it might be too thick and mess with distance but to my surprise I was able to cast a 3" Big Hammer with a scrounger head just as far as I was tossing LC's on 8# mono.

bsp
03-29-2009, 10:33 AM
I am only going to use braid in the very few situations where I tie it straight to the lure. That means flipping, frogging, and maybe if I am tossing a lipless crankbait in grass. Otherwise, there is no point because using a leader defeats the purpose of using braid. Just use the leader as your mainline since that is the way you will be fishing.

Skyler
03-30-2009, 10:46 AM
Otherwise, there is no point because using a leader defeats the purpose of using braid. Just use the leader as your mainline since that is the way you will be fishing.

There is a point to running braid with a leader. You will have WAY more sensitivity with a spool of braid and a mono leader than you would with just a full spool of mono. Plus the braid outcasts the mono big time in any given pound test. Add in the added spool capacity that braid gives and you can see that it's not entirely pointless. The only real point of the leader is for visibility reasons, unless you are using a shock leader, in which case it's to buffer the energy of your cast.

bsp
03-30-2009, 12:25 PM
There is a point to running braid with a leader. You will have WAY more sensitivity with a spool of braid and a mono leader than you would with just a full spool of mono. Plus the braid outcasts the mono big time in any given pound test. Add in the added spool capacity that braid gives and you can see that it's not entirely pointless. The only real point of the leader is for visibility reasons, unless you are using a shock leader, in which case it's to buffer the energy of your cast.

Use flourocarbon if you want sensitivity and reduced visibility. There is no point to using mono anymore in fresh water (aside from cost) now that there are so many good copolymers and flourocarbons on the market. A spool of braid is more expensive than a spool of flourocarbon, and both will last over a year if you don't backlash a lot. As for casting distance, I have not experienced any significant gains, but I have experienced a big lack of abrasion resistance in the lower pound tests (20lb and below). Also, any braid below 50lb has a tendency to dig into itself when under any kind of pressure. The added line capacity is a moot point in freshwater. Since when did you get spooled by a largemouth?

Braid, IMO, is a lot more useful in saltwater. There, it actually saves money since you only have to change topshots, and it gives you the line capacity to handle large fish. It's kelp cutting ability is also very nice.

If you have to try braid, get Daiwa Samurai or Sufix. I have had bad experiences with Berkley lines and Power Pro.

DarkShadow
03-30-2009, 01:13 PM
There is no point to using mono anymore in fresh water (aside from cost) now that there are so many good copolymers and flourocarbons on the market.

Do you know if copolymers float better than mono?

Because trying to throw a topwater bait on flouro is pretty much a waste of time, as the flourocarbon sinks a bit faster than mono, and trying to walk the dog is like trying to bathe a cat.

bsp
03-30-2009, 01:27 PM
Do you know if copolymers float better than mono?

Because trying to throw a topwater bait on flouro is pretty much a waste of time, as the flourocarbon sinks a bit faster than mono, and trying to walk the dog is like trying to bathe a cat.

I use P-Line CXX, a copolymer, for topwater and it works very well. I personally like the low stretch for walking the dog with my Lunker Punker and Sammy's. I might try Tory Polyamide to give me an idea of what a high quality nylon line is like, but at the moment P-Line works well for what I do. It can have memory issues, but that has gone away for me after the first few casts. Overfilling the spool makes the problem a lot more noticeable with P-Line, but that happens with every line company. Izorline XXX is a good copolymer too.

I know flourocarbon sinks, and that can be nice if you want to get jerkbaits deeper, windy conditions, deep water, etc. It does make flouro useless for topwaters though. I know that people like straight braid for topwater because of how there is no stretch (10in Plastic Punker comes to mind), but I have not yet experienced a situation that made me prefer braid to copolymers.

Disclaimer: I am talking about using line for freshwater bass fishing. Monofilament has its uses when fishing for trout, catfish, and stripers. Braid has its uses when tied straight, but the braid with a short leader idea seems to give the same results as other lines in my opinion.

Skyler
03-30-2009, 02:19 PM
Bsp: "Also, any braid below 50lb has a tendency to dig into itself when under any kind of pressure."


Hence the lower drag settings. This will prevent that problem entirely. As for the flouro, I do use flouro topshots predominately when running braid, and prefer them for most applications. "Mono" refers to any monofilament line, be it flouro, nylon, or copolymer. Not just the old nylon stuff. If it is a single filament, then it is "Mono."


"The added line capacity is a moot point in freshwater. Since when did you get spooled by a largemouth?"


The deeper into your spool you get, the more resistance your cast will face. By having thinner line and less line come off the stack, you will get longer casts. Not to mention the lack of memeory the braid offers.

"Braid, IMO, is a lot more useful in saltwater. There, it actually saves money since you only have to change topshots, and it gives you the line capacity to handle large fish. It's kelp cutting ability is also very nice."

I agree. But those attributes are useful in freshwater too.

"If you have to try braid, get Daiwa Samurai or Sufix. I have had bad experiences with Berkley lines and Power Pro."

Like I said, i use spinning gear only. I've found the fused lines like fireline to be far more manageable in my situation.

Skyler
03-30-2009, 02:21 PM
I use P-Line CXX, a copolymer, for topwater and it works very well.

I've been using that line for awhile. Good stuff, abeit a bit stiff. I like the CX a bit better than the CXX, but for pure muscle, you can't beat the CXX. P-line is the only mono i buy anymore.

bsp
03-30-2009, 03:17 PM
1. Hence the lower drag settings. This will prevent that problem entirely. As for the flouro, I do use flouro topshots predominately when running braid, and prefer them for most applications. "Mono" refers to any monofilament line, be it flouro, nylon, or copolymer. Not just the old nylon stuff. If it is a single filament, then it is "Mono.

2. The deeper into your spool you get, the more resistance your cast will face. By having thinner line and less line come off the stack, you will get longer casts. Not to mention the lack of memeory the braid offers.

3. I agree. But those attributes are useful in freshwater too.

4. Like I said, i use spinning gear only. I've found the fused lines like fireline to be far more manageable in my situation.

Skyler, I want to say that you make very good points and have found a successful style of fishing with spinning gear that is enhanced by braid. But, I disagree because I have found that with baitcasting gear, braid tends to be more problematic and that is what the person who started this thread was asking about, casting gear.

Spinning gear with braid and flouro topshots makes sense because most flouro just does not spool well on spinning rods, even in the lower pound tests. So, braid is a good choice because it minimizes this problem. I still use straight flouro on spinning reels because I personally have not had enough problems with Seaguar and Toray to make me switch.

1. That works on spinning gear, but I have experienced this on light braid on casting gear. You can have a light drag, but if you get just one backlash the braid will dig in. Also, even on spinning gear, you might need to tighten the drag to saw the fish out of structure. Assuming that the low abrasion resistance of light braid doesn't cause the line to break, the braid will then dig in. Then, you have to strip off the braid and wind it back on the reel to get it out.

I'll stop using the term mono then, thanks for the correction!

2. I did not experience significant enough gains (1 yd at most) with braid on my casting reels to make the switch seem worthwhile. Maybe it is more noticeable on sinning reels.

3. The kelp cutting aspect of braid is only useful at higher tests, like 30lb and above. Then, you tend to be straight tying. At lower tests with a leader, you lose abrasion resistance because it is too easy for the braid to get nicked. Also, the money saving aspect of braid when changing line only applies if it is backing, meaning you are not actually fishing with it. If it is coming in contact with structure, it is best to cut it off because it will get beat up. Then, you will eventually have to replace the braid. As for handling big fish, when has a big largemouth bass ever come close to spooling you? I can maybe see the benefits when trophy striper or catfish fishing, but for largemouth line capacity is not an issue.

4. Fair enough. I have not had enough experience with braid on spinning reels to have an informed opinion.

I agree with that pure strength comment for P-Line.

lurk 182
03-30-2009, 07:31 PM
Skyler, I want to say that you make very good points and have found a successful style of fishing with spinning gear that is enhanced by braid. But, I disagree because I have found that with baitcasting gear, braid tends to be more problematic and that is what the person who started this thread was asking about, casting gear.

Spinning gear with braid and flouro topshots makes sense because most flouro just does not spool well on spinning rods, even in the lower pound tests. So, braid is a good choice because it minimizes this problem. I still use straight flouro on spinning reels because I personally have not had enough problems with Seaguar and Toray to make me switch.

1. That works on spinning gear, but I have experienced this on light braid on casting gear. You can have a light drag, but if you get just one backlash the braid will dig in. Also, even on spinning gear, you might need to tighten the drag to saw the fish out of structure. Assuming that the low abrasion resistance of light braid doesn't cause the line to break, the braid will then dig in. Then, you have to strip off the braid and wind it back on the reel to get it out.

I'll stop using the term mono then, thanks for the correction!

2. I did not experience significant enough gains (1 yd at most) with braid on my casting reels to make the switch seem worthwhile. Maybe it is more noticeable on sinning reels.

3. The kelp cutting aspect of braid is only useful at higher tests, like 30lb and above. Then, you tend to be straight tying. At lower tests with a leader, you lose abrasion resistance because it is too easy for the braid to get nicked. Also, the money saving aspect of braid when changing line only applies if it is backing, meaning you are not actually fishing with it. If it is coming in contact with structure, it is best to cut it off because it will get beat up. Then, you will eventually have to replace the braid. As for handling big fish, when has a big largemouth bass ever come close to spooling you? I can maybe see the benefits when trophy striper or catfish fishing, but for largemouth line capacity is not an issue.

4. Fair enough. I have not had enough experience with braid on spinning reels to have an informed opinion.

I agree with that pure strength comment for P-Line.

the guy must be more confused than ever after this back and forth. he never mentioned whether he was using spinning or casting reel. most people do not consider all extruded lines to be mono, regardless of the composition. CXX is mono. flouroclear is the G.Pucci copolymer, and its still almost all nylon, and handles and streches about exactly like 100% nylon mono. unless its 100% flouro, its not going to act like flouro. these copolymers are the line company's attempt to get people to buy something that handles like mono (nylon) but has the visibility benefits of flouro. (which is pretty much impossible anyway). i don't know what happenned to the guy who asked the question, but his head must be spinning. i'd say DS has it about right.

bsp
03-31-2009, 09:30 AM
For a 7'6 rod with a 7.1 reel?

lurk: There are no spinning reels with a 7:1 gear ratio. Hence, he's using casting gear. Copolymer is different line than nylon and handles differently, namely it has less stretch and tends to over test a bit.

lurk 182
03-31-2009, 01:06 PM
does it float? is it mostly nylon? does it strech twice as much as pure flouro? sounds like mono to me. i'm not going to search the web for spinning reel gear ratios. you and skyler should just PM each other on the finer points when the guy clearly states he's a beginner.