End of a nation

[Catrack77]

"You cannot legislate

[Scoring Machine]

Ahhh, more whit and wisdom from Televangelists.

Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.

[Catrack77]

[QUOTE=Scoring Machine;

[tpfishnfool]

Whew !! Too Heavy for this guy ..... Chill bros, have a beer or two..

[BingJr]

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that, my dear friend, is about the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
~~ The late Dr. Adrian Rogers ~~


I unfortunately couldn't agree more.

I will on any day stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone else and assist them in their struggles, I do in fact have a problem always doing it for them.

[Nessie Hunter]

I unfortunately couldn't agree more.

I will on any day stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone else and assist them in their struggles, I do in fact have a problem "always" doing it for them.

Well said Bing.

I recently read an article that predicted the fall of the U S by 2012..
Mostly due to the high cost of our mostly non functioning, over sized, Government and the liberal pay out to so many..
Now they want to raise the fuel tax to pay for road repairs (federally).. The taxes in place are being funneled to other bleeding heart programs and the roads are falling apart.... Just like everything else....

What ever happened to the Calif Lottery that was supposed to Lift our schools to be world class institutions???? Kids cant even read today or have to pay for their own extra activities (if they even exist).. Teacher pay is in the toilet..
If you can read this, Thank a Teacher???????????

Used to be people were humiliated that they had to go on any welfare to get by in hard times....
Look around!!! its a way of life now... Fraud is rampant and generation after generation propagate (breed) to get bigger checks from YOU..
And never return any of it by paying into the system as it was designed...

The friggin "illegals" have better benefits then I do for christs sake. Medical, food stamps, free lunches, and yes College scholarships etc etc etc....


:Twisted: :Twisted: :Twisted: :Twisted:

We better do something and QUICK!!!!!



.

[olfishergal]

Well said Bing.

I recently read an article that predicted the fall of the U S by 2012..
Mostly due to the high cost of our mostly non functioning, over sized, Government and the liberal pay out to so many..
Now they want to raise the fuel tax to pay for road repairs (federally).. The taxes in place are being funneled to other bleeding heart programs and the roads are falling apart.... Just like everything else....

What ever happened to the Calif Lottery that was supposed to Lift our schools to be world class institutions???? Kids cant even read today or have to pay for their own extra activities (if they even exist).. Teacher pay is in the toilet..
If you can read this, Thank a Teacher???????????

Used to be people were humiliated that they had to go on any welfare to get by in hard times....
Look around!!! its a way of life now... Fraud is rampant and generation after generation propagate (breed) to get bigger checks from YOU..
And never return any of it by paying into the system as it was designed...

The friggin "illegals" have better benefits then I do for christs sake. Medical, food stamps, free lunches, and yes College scholarships etc etc etc....


:Twisted: :Twisted: :Twisted: :Twisted:

We better do something and QUICK!!!!!



.



Nessie, you have just touched the tip.........so much fraud from people coming to this great country and literally stealing us blind. Our SSI is busted due to the fact that most any one coming to this country fills out the disability application on the plane and are directed to the agencies that will help them. So many people I see don't even have social security numbers, but walk in the door demanding sect 8 housing, food stamps, SSI, free medical, free medications,,,,Thge list goes on and on. Interestingly, the only folks who have trouble getting thier disability benefits are true Americans who have worked al their lives in America. IMHO, the office that deals with immigration is where funding needs to be beefed up big time and anyone without a greencard or other real proof that they belong here needs to go back where they came from. Immigration quotas need to be re-established as well as new legal immigrants being required to speak our national language, ENGLISH....Think how much money the govt could save by not printing everything in multiple languages. I am for anyone coming here who does it the legal way, not just sneaking across the border and applying for freebies, then sending the cash home to "their country" Sorry all, this is a hot subject for me..........."The fleecing of America"

[GeordyBass]

The friggin "illegals" have better benefits then I do for christs sake. Medical, food stamps, free lunches, and yes College scholarships etc etc etc....


Tighter border protection.

That's 100% true for what you said.For example,I have to fully pay for my lunch at school while they eat for free.The schools suggest that people who make under about $15k a year get free lunch and tons of other privileges compared to a family that is "middle class".

That is not too fair at all,my parents came to the U.S. as "illegals",but they worked thier a$$es hard and never asked for wellfare or anything like that EVER.They did pay taxes since they started working too.They came to the U.S. not only to make $$$ and go back...They wanted to be American and prosper.They did,I'm here,and no way I am going to live in thier country...:LOL:

[ghetto dad]

Tighter border protection.

That's 100% true for what you said.For example,I have to fully pay for my lunch at school while they eat for free.The schools suggest that people who make under about $15k a year get free lunch and tons of other privileges compared to a family that is "middle class".

That is not too fair at all,my parents came to the U.S. as "illegals",but they worked thier a$$es hard and never asked for wellfare or anything like that EVER.They did pay taxes since they started working too.They came to the U.S. not only to make $$$ and go back...They wanted to be American and prosper.They did,I'm here,and no way I am going to live in thier country...:LOL:

Yeah, at times, it seems like its getting to the point where if you are legal and make decent money, you get further and further behind while the "others" get everything for free...medical, dental, food, housing, etc. Its ridiculous.....

GD

[ghetto dad]

Nessie, you have just touched the tip.........so much fraud from people coming to this great country and literally stealing us blind. Our SSI is busted due to the fact that most any one coming to this country fills out the disability application on the plane and are directed to the agencies that will help them. So many people I see don't even have social security numbers, but walk in the door demanding sect 8 housing, food stamps, SSI, free medical, free medications,,,,Thge list goes on and on. Interestingly, the only folks who have trouble getting thier disability benefits are true Americans who have worked al their lives in America. IMHO, the office that deals with immigration is where funding needs to be beefed up big time and anyone without a greencard or other real proof that they belong here needs to go back where they came from. Immigration quotas need to be re-established as well as new legal immigrants being required to speak our national language, ENGLISH....Think how much money the govt could save by not printing everything in multiple languages. I am for anyone coming here who does it the legal way, not just sneaking across the border and applying for freebies, then sending the cash home to "their country" Sorry all, this is a hot subject for me..........."The fleecing of America"


:Applause:

Im so with you OFG, you have no idea....

GD

[smalweld]

I have been to local fast food joint three times and have gotten the order right once. Sucks when you have to be bilingual just to order a friggin hamburger with extra onions and no pickles!!!!. Also the forgot the salad both times!! Went back today and the lady tried charging me 16 bucks for two friggin cheeseburgers that were 4.99 each?? Wont be back to that establisment again.

For the people that tell me that the illegals do not take away from us. Lets see they drive a vehicle in the state, state law says you must have insurance.. I have been rear ended before and guess who paid for those repairs?? Now I HAVE to spend extra money each year for uninsured coverage so i don't get screwed again by them. Yup send em back and please do it soon or we will all be brought down by them.

[joe man]

I have been to local fast food joint three times and have gotten the order right once. Sucks when you have to be bilingual just to order a friggin hamburger with extra onions and no pickles!!!!. Also the forgot the salad both times!! Went back today and the lady tried charging me 16 bucks for two friggin cheeseburgers that were 4.99 each?? Wont be back to that establisment again.

For the people that tell me that the illegals do not take away from us. Lets see they drive a vehicle in the state, state law says you must have insurance.. I have been rear ended before and guess who paid for those repairs?? Now I HAVE to spend extra money each year for uninsured coverage so i don't get screwed again by them. Yup send em back and please do it soon or we will all be brought down by them.

I agree 100% but I also understand why many come here, and put in the same position I would do the same thing. It is for this reason that the answer to the problem lies in making it so the grass is not greener here. Think about it, if you had kids and wanted to provide for them I bet you would cross the border too. I do not blame the illegals so much as I blame the politicians for allowing it to go on unobstructed. The illegals do not have any fear of negative consiquences when our elected jackasses do anything they can to keep the illegals happy.

[Nessie Hunter]

Im sure its clear to every one 'why' they come..
But it took a lot of hard work from a lot of LEGAL immigrants to get this country where it is....
My grandparents on my Dads side were immigrants..
They worked hard a saved every penny they could & invested in Real Estate.
They put 2 kids through college and did well.....
I have no beef with immigrants at all...

But it doesnt work to have 50% of a population TAKING from the other 50% and giving nothing back, taxes or S S etc etc.. Then sending a good piece of the cash to another country to stimulate THAT economy, not the one where they get the Money to begin with, along with a couple of dozen social give aways....... :Evil: :Evil:

You will see... It will stop, the pot is running dry,, Fast!!!!..



.

[City Dad]

Once again the anointed among us have illuminated for me the dark and twisting path to Truth with the righteous torch of the word of God (as dictated by a doctor no less!)

I am always grateful for the benevolent tutelage of those more learned than I and am greatly inspired by the courage with which they decry the misdeeds of those at the helm of our crumbling nation. The stench of the bloated corps of a country once called "America," so vile and putrid from rot of corruption and greed devouring it from the inside, is an abomination to my nostrils up with which I shall no longer put!!! (Notice the correct use of the ENGLISH language here; I have not ended the sentence in a preposition, but rather with a verb – the way all of we Americans talk, right?)

It is there for that I take up the cause for which so many have sacrificed. I will never again sit back and demand something for doing nothing. In American terms, I'm saying ‘**** the politicians.’ I'm taking this bull by the horns and doing something about the situation myself! Who, Real Americans, will stand with me?

Let us not deliver ourselves into the hands of our enemy! Let us not put food upon his table nor render unto him aid and comfort. Let us scorn and cast off that which is the fruit of his labors! Let us pass by his trinkets and baubles thereby staunching the flow of revenue into his filthy coffers!

For the illegals I will translate the above call to action:

“Let’s us Americans boycott everything made in part or whole by illegal aliens! I mean, we demand others do for themselves – why wouldn’t we take action on our own behalf instead of just sitting back and b*tching about what everyone else is doing or not doing? C’mon, where my YANKEE CAN-DO-ODLE DANDIES at?

“I, for one, have sworn off all vegetables. I will no longer use laminated glass (trust me, it’s all made by guys without papers) and will shatter any piece of it I encounter. I will refuse to wear any type of man-made clothing. I will never again go to any home of a person who employs a gardener. I have cancelled all of my subscriptions to newspapers.

“IT IS MY NOT-AT-ALL-HUMBLE OPINION THAT ANYONE WHO IS PURCHASING ANY OF THE PRODUCTS OR SERVICES I HAVE MENTIONED IS PART OF THE PROBLEM AND THEREFORE A CRIMINAL AND THEREFORE A TRAITOR AND THEREFORE ALSO AN ILLEGAL ALIEN… OR GAY.”

And another thing that ****** me off – In driving around Van Nuys and Panorama City, I’ve notice that a lot of these illegal aliens think it’s funny to sneak into our country and destroy it from within while wearing a Sadam Husien mustache. That reeeeeally gets my goat. I say we form up our own militia – we could call ourselves the “Barbers of Babylon”… or maybe the “Apostle Posse” and we start hunting down these jokers and shaving them at the border. Who’s with me on that?!?!?!

[ghetto dad]

Once again the anointed among us have illuminated for me the dark and twisting path to Truth with the righteous torch of the word of God (as dictated by a doctor no less!)

I am always grateful for the benevolent tutelage of those more learned than I and am greatly inspired by the courage with which they decry the misdeeds of those at the helm of our crumbling nation. The stench of the bloated corps of a country once called "America," so vile and putrid from rot of corruption and greed devouring it from the inside, is an abomination to my nostrils up with which I shall no longer put!!! (Notice the correct use of the ENGLISH language here; I have not ended the sentence in a preposition, but rather with a verb – the way all of we Americans talk, right?)

It is there for that I take up the cause for which so many have sacrificed. I will never again sit back and demand something for doing nothing. In American terms, I'm saying ‘**** the politicians.’ I'm taking this bull by the horns and doing something about the situation myself! Who, Real Americans, will stand with me?

Let us not deliver ourselves into the hands of our enemy! Let us not put food upon his table nor render unto him aid and comfort. Let us scorn and cast off that which is the fruit of his labors! Let us pass by his trinkets and baubles thereby staunching the flow of revenue into his filthy coffers!

For the illegals I will translate the above call to action:

“Let’s us Americans boycott everything made in part or whole by illegal aliens! I mean, we demand others do for themselves – why wouldn’t we take action on our own behalf instead of just sitting back and b*tching about what everyone else is doing or not doing? C’mon, where my YANKEE CAN-DO-ODLE DANDIES at?

“I, for one, have sworn off all vegetables. I will no longer use laminated glass (trust me, it’s all made by guys without papers) and will shatter any piece of it I encounter. I will refuse to wear any type of man-made clothing. I will never again go to any home of a person who employs a gardener. I have cancelled all of my subscriptions to newspapers.

“IT IS MY NOT-AT-ALL-HUMBLE OPINION THAT ANYONE WHO IS PURCHASING ANY OF THE PRODUCTS OR SERVICES I HAVE MENTIONED IS PART OF THE PROBLEM AND THEREFORE A CRIMINAL AND THEREFORE A TRAITOR AND THEREFORE ALSO AN ILLEGAL ALIEN… OR GAY.”

And another thing that ****** me off – In driving around Van Nuys and Panorama City, I’ve notice that a lot of these illegal aliens think it’s funny to sneak into our country and destroy it from within while wearing a Sadam Husien mustache. That reeeeeally gets my goat. I say we form up our own militia – we could call ourselves the “Barbers of Babylon”… or maybe the “Apostle Posse” and we start hunting down these jokers and shaving them at the border. Who’s with me on that?!?!?!


:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::Applause::Applause::Applause:

Nice CD, really nice....i especially loved your reason for editing...:ROFL:

GD

[PUDD MASTER BAITER]

I guess every one forgets what this country was based on ,and how it got started. Who built the railroads ,it wasnt my race.who made california what it is today my race did. Id like to see any member of any race ,trace there citizenship of being an american born, without there ancistors first taking all the dirty jobs ,that no one wanted to do. Most illegals are here to better them selves ,and there familys lives.thank the wealthy who thru greed wont pay fair wages for our legal citizens. Why dont we make the people ,on welfare who are just plain lazy, earn our hard earned dollars. When i was young my father took me to the old nieghborhood, where he grew up, and showed me the familys ,that have 2 or now 3 generations of being on welfare.every body in our nation at some stared some where with past generrations. Labeling all immigrents as leechs on our socity is ridicous. I got an idea .lets just wait in 4 yrs, and vote jeb bush into office im sure he will fix things up.god bless and peace out ...mike the chicano pmb.....

[City Dad]

I guess every one forgets what this country was based on ,and how it got started. Who built the railroads ,it wasnt my race.who made california what it is today my race did. Id like to see any member of any race ,trace there citizenship of being an american born, without there ancistors first taking all the dirty jobs ,that no one wanted to do. Most illegals are here to better them selves ,and there familys lives.thank the wealthy who thru greed wont pay fair wages for our legal citizens. Why dont we make the people ,on welfare who are just plain lazy, earn our hard earned dollars. When i was young my father took me to the old nieghborhood, where he grew up, and showed me the familys ,that have 2 or now 3 generations of being on welfare.every body in our nation at some stared some where with past generrations. Labeling all immigrents as leechs on our socity is ridicous. I got an idea .lets just wait in 4 yrs, and vote jeb bush into office im sure he will fix things up.god bless and peace out ...mike the chicano pmb.....


yeah, pmg... you've stated very clearly what I was trying to get at via (very feeble) sarcasm...

my view is this: I am agnostic, so I can't claim to know the mind of "God," but I have a strong hunch that he, she, it or them probably don't give a rat's puckered a*s about how the Central and South Americans are cramping the North Americans' style.

I'd be very curious to see any kind of statistics which support any position on illegal immigration... because so far I've seen none.

What I do know is that in this forum, like our country, there are allways going to be individuals who need to wag their fingers at other folks... but these hall-monitors-for-life need to understand that, as PMB so succintly stated, they each sit on a throne of hypocracy if they in any way indulgent in the table of plenty our civilization has placed before us, ie. If you are consuming consumables, you are part the aleged "problem" and you should probably put that finder back where it was before you logged on...:Wink:

[sansou]

I blame Obama for everything.


This will be my default response for the next 4 years. At this time, I will be placing my finger back in my nose.

[City Dad]

I blame Obama for everything.


This will be my default response for the next 4 years. At this time, I will be placing my finger back in my nose.

Aha! I have been seeking out an arch nemesis... and now I have found him in the Barrister Sansou!

I will daub myself liberally in patchouli oil don, my hemp fiber shorts and Birkenstocks and tilt at thee my worthy opponent! The game is afoot!!! Tally Ho!

[Nessie Hunter]

yeah, pmg... you've stated very clearly what I was trying to get at via (very feeble) sarcasm...

my view is this: I am agnostic, so I can't claim to know the mind of "God," but I have a strong hunch that he, she, it or them probably don't give a rat's puckered a*s about how the Central and South Americans are cramping the North Americans' style.

I'd be very curious to see any kind of statistics which support any position on illegal immigration... because so far I've seen none.

What I do know is that in this forum, like our country, there are allways going to be individuals who need to wag their fingers at other folks... but these hall-monitors-for-life need to understand that, as PMB so succintly stated, they each sit on a throne of hypocracy if they in any way indulgent in the table of plenty our civilization has placed before us, ie. If you are consuming consumables, you are part the aleged "problem" and you should probably put that finder back where it was before you logged on...:Wink:

The statistics abound. Deep, thick and from a lot of sources, some violent and some educated.. Google...

http://tinyurl.com/8b8st

llegal aliens in the United States

Our illegal immigration counters are based on an estimated twenty million illegal aliens having been present in our nation as of January 1, **2004**.


You could easily double that to 40 million by 2009...

============

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/

Welcome To The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration

Most Americans are against illegal immigration, but I feel that the majority just don't know the dire situation that our country is in and the damage that illegal aliens are doing to the United States.
From the costs of education to traffic congestion to the impact of having a bilingual society, you'll find all of the facts here.
Begin with A Foreward From P.F. Wagner (http://www.usillegalaliens.com/forward.html)

A few interesting notes from the article:



The lives of 12 U.S. citizens would be saved who otherwise would die a violent death at the hands of murderous illegal aliens EACH DAY!!.
Another 13 Americans would survive who are otherwise killed EACH DAY by uninsured drunk driving illegals.
There would be no one to smuggle across our southern border the heroin, marijuana, cocaine, and methamphetamines, which plague the United States, reducing the U.S. supply of methamphetamines that day, by 80%.
Our hospital emergency rooms would not be flooded with everything from gunshot wounds, to anchor babies, to imported diseases, to hangnails, giving American citizens the day off from standing in line behind illegals.
Eight American children would not suffer the horror as victims of sex crimes EACH DAY.

Are Congressman King's comments baseless rhetoric, hateful speech, or actual facts? The MSM (mainstream media) and proponents of illegal aliens consistently bombard us with reports of an individual illegal alien that has done what most legal immigrants do: work hard and succeed. However, what they rarely tell us about are any of the negative aspects of illegal immigration. This report will detail some of the dark, negative aspects of the impact of illegal aliens that you might not be aware of.
Let's start with a broad summary on how illegal immigration is or can affect you personally. Here are just some of the negative side affects of illegal immigration:


easy conduit for terrorists entering the USA
massive escalation in crime
surge in foreign national prisoners to support for years
increases Balkanization of US
increases multiculturalism/segregation/divisiveness instead of the American melting pot
increases desire for Aztlan (reclaiming SW states for Mexico)
increasing number of traffic accidents
main contributor to surging US population
dramatic impact on society and infrastructure, including education
destruction of fragile ecosystems in American SW
main cause of emergency rooms and hospitals closing as well as service cut backs
introduction of third world diseases
increased welfare costs
massive costs to society – over and above contributions


In any case, the author of this report wants to make it perfectly clear: very few Americans are against a reasonable amount of legal immigration, regardless of race, nationality or ethnicity, but most Americans are against any amount of illegal immigration, regardless of race, nationality or ethnicity.
It is further to be noted that the illegal aliens are not just a "Mexican" or "Hispanic" problem. It is only that most illegal aliens are currently from Mexico and the vast majority of illegal aliens are Hispanic.
Maybe with the exception of the Swedish Bikini Team, the majority of Americans would be against any people, regardless of race, nationality or ethnicity, being illegal aliens in the USA.
Prison/incarceration costs: *2004*!!!!
It is worth noting that all the incarceration costs, some $5.6 billion in 2004, are ultimately paid for by the taxpayers
In any case, with 267,000 illegal aliens incarcerated, as of *2003*, just the incarceration costs at $25,000 per inmate per year is **$6.7 BILLION** per year. I'll take a wild guess that you didn't realize we were spending that much. Do you have any better ideas on what we could be spending $6.7 billion a year on rather than providing three meals a day and color TV to a bunch of illegal alien prisoners? While you think about that, here is anther one to ponder: how much money would we have saved since 1980 if there were still only 9,000 incarcerated illegal aliens rather than 267,000?



I could go on for a long time here. But *read* the article. It is old, but quite thorough.

You may just change your mind on the illegal problem that is draining this great country DRY..



Like it says, the number of Mexican/Hespanic Illegals is very high, due to the proximity of the boarder and Economics there..

This is Not a race issue, this is not an Immigrant issue (we are all Immigrants), including the American Indians (they just got here sooner, according to some experts)..

Yes its a problem, A big problem!!!!
that is costing us more then we can afford.
Solutions?????
Amnesty & Legalize them and so they can pay taxes, then slam the boarder closed??
One solution that I have read that makes sense and probably the only one that will work at all.....

You have to have your head in the sand to NOT know the issues and costs to the 'legal' citizens (who pay taxes) for the illegals in this country.. And it gets bigger every year.

I drove a truck for 7 years after I retired. Its not just Calif or the S/W states either. Its at least 49 states that I am aware of (Excluding only Hawaii, I havnt been there)...
Canada dont play around... Few and far between there.

Like I said, it will end..... The money is about gone.......



.

[City Dad]

The statistics abound. Deep, thick and from a lot of sources, some violent and some educated.. Google...

http://tinyurl.com/8b8st

llegal aliens in the United States

Our illegal immigration counters are based on an estimated twenty million illegal aliens having been present in our nation as of January 1, **2004**.


You could easily double that to 40 million by 2009...

============

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/

Welcome To The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration

Most Americans are against illegal immigration, but I feel that the majority just don't know the dire situation that our country is in and the damage that illegal aliens are doing to the United States.
From the costs of education to traffic congestion to the impact of having a bilingual society, you'll find all of the facts here.
Begin with A Foreward From P.F. Wagner (http://www.usillegalaliens.com/forward.html)

A few interesting notes from the article:



The lives of 12 U.S. citizens would be saved who otherwise would die a violent death at the hands of murderous illegal aliens EACH DAY!!.
Another 13 Americans would survive who are otherwise killed EACH DAY by uninsured drunk driving illegals.
There would be no one to smuggle across our southern border the heroin, marijuana, cocaine, and methamphetamines, which plague the United States, reducing the U.S. supply of methamphetamines that day, by 80%.
Our hospital emergency rooms would not be flooded with everything from gunshot wounds, to anchor babies, to imported diseases, to hangnails, giving American citizens the day off from standing in line behind illegals.
Eight American children would not suffer the horror as victims of sex crimes EACH DAY.
Are Congressman King's comments baseless rhetoric, hateful speech, or actual facts? The MSM (mainstream media) and proponents of illegal aliens consistently bombard us with reports of an individual illegal alien that has done what most legal immigrants do: work hard and succeed. However, what they rarely tell us about are any of the negative aspects of illegal immigration. This report will detail some of the dark, negative aspects of the impact of illegal aliens that you might not be aware of.
Let's start with a broad summary on how illegal immigration is or can affect you personally. Here are just some of the negative side affects of illegal immigration:


easy conduit for terrorists entering the USA
massive escalation in crime
surge in foreign national prisoners to support for years
increases Balkanization of US
increases multiculturalism/segregation/divisiveness instead of the American melting pot
increases desire for Aztlan (reclaiming SW states for Mexico)
increasing number of traffic accidents
main contributor to surging US population
dramatic impact on society and infrastructure, including education
destruction of fragile ecosystems in American SW
main cause of emergency rooms and hospitals closing as well as service cut backs
introduction of third world diseases
increased welfare costs
massive costs to society – over and above contributions
In any case, the author of this report wants to make it perfectly clear: very few Americans are against a reasonable amount of legal immigration, regardless of race, nationality or ethnicity, but most Americans are against any amount of illegal immigration, regardless of race, nationality or ethnicity.
It is further to be noted that the illegal aliens are not just a "Mexican" or "Hispanic" problem. It is only that most illegal aliens are currently from Mexico and the vast majority of illegal aliens are Hispanic.
Maybe with the exception of the Swedish Bikini Team, the majority of Americans would be against any people, regardless of race, nationality or ethnicity, being illegal aliens in the USA.
Prison/incarceration costs: *2004*!!!!
It is worth noting that all the incarceration costs, some $5.6 billion in 2004, are ultimately paid for by the taxpayers
In any case, with 267,000 illegal aliens incarcerated, as of *2003*, just the incarceration costs at $25,000 per inmate per year is **$6.7 BILLION** per year. I'll take a wild guess that you didn't realize we were spending that much. Do you have any better ideas on what we could be spending $6.7 billion a year on rather than providing three meals a day and color TV to a bunch of illegal alien prisoners? While you think about that, here is anther one to ponder: how much money would we have saved since 1980 if there were still only 9,000 incarcerated illegal aliens rather than 267,000?



I could go on for a long time here. But *read* the article. It is old, but quite thorough.

You may just change your mind on the illegal problem that is draining this great country DRY..



Like it says, the number of Mexican/Hespanic Illegals is very high, due to the proximity of the boarder and Economics there..

This is Not a race issue, this is not an Immigrant issue (we are all Immigrants), including the American Indians (they just got here sooner, according to some experts)..

Yes its a problem, A big problem!!!!
that is costing us more then we can afford.
Solutions?????
Amnesty & Legalize them and so they can pay taxes, then slam the boarder closed??
One solution that I have read that makes sense and probably the only one that will work at all.....

You have to have your head in the sand to NOT know the issues and costs to the 'legal' citizens (who pay taxes) for the illegals in this country.. And it gets bigger every year.

I drove a truck for 7 years after I retired. Its not just Calif or the S/W states either. Its at least 49 states that I am aware of (Excluding only Hawaii, I havnt been there)...
Canada dont play around... Few and far between there.

Like I said, it will end..... The money is about gone.......



.

Thanks. I'll read all of it.

Wow... a lot in those links... so, I'll read some of it now some of it later. Very interesting and frightening numbers pertaining to violent crime. I am curious as to what source those numbers can be attributed.

And... that's not sand my head is stuck in ;) ...clearly the illegal immigration issue is not just a problem but a battery of problems...

However, I must still maintain that a big chunk of the stuff that get's made/harvested here and eagerly consumed by real Americans is made/harvested by illegal immigrants... and I really don't think we real Americans are going to be too thrilled to pay five bucks for a head of cabage picket by a genuine, red-blooded, legal American teamster.

I mean, if real Americans could hire other real Americans to do the dirty work, why wouldn't they? Greed? And who's really beeing greedy here? Everyone can agree that the situation is f***ed but nobody seems to feel they bear even the slightest responsibility in the matter at all. The whole "It's not me/us it's you/them" sentiment is profoundly tiresome. How 'bout we/us/you/them just knock it off? More than of a couple of our major industries are profitable only because some poor suckers are being payed way less than the value of the product of their work AND WE SEEM TO LIKE THAT PART OF THE EQUATION PRETTY DANG WELL. One certain way to solve the illegal immigration problem is to stop making/growing stuff here and let China do it all... unless we can convince a vastly greater number of real Americans to chop broccoli for a six bucks and hour.

[Nessie Hunter]

It goes way beyond the cost of Crime and punishment..
The Schools (ask any teacher), Walfare & food stamp programs, the medical community, Higher education (they qualify for Scholorships).
A new citizen every time one has a baby.
I could go on & on... But its all a drain on TAX money, with no return. Just a big black money pit....
Its not just produce...
I have been to many a Midwest beef packing plants that were 90+% (what looked to my untrained Calif eye) Illegals???
Chicken & pork plants, the same thing..
Apples in Wash State. On the farms & warehouses.
Christmas trees in Oregon.
Oranges in Fla...
on & on & on......
Im sure its not just the warehouses, Packing plants or farms either...
Any warehouse from Main to Calif & Fla to Wash State.
Except Walmart, 'of all places'. They had a pretty diverse range of employees at every one I unloaded at...
Every fast food wiki up or restaurant, hotels, motels..

Im not sure the employers can justify less then min wage in payroll taxes, SSI, Dis ins etc.. So there must be a way they are putting the extra profit in their own greedy pockets????

We would have to give up eating anything or wearing clothes, or having a Christmas tree to boycott what illegals touch....

The businesses have to be made accountable for who they hire....
So what if beef goes up 2 cents a pound. I cant afford it now...
I havnt had a Strawberry in years (thats a lie)... :Embarrassed:
If the jobs arent there, the flow over the majestic Rio Grande STOPS...
Amnesty for those here now, Soc Sec Cards and pay taxes...
Then lock it down tight and deport those that failed to use the Amnesty....

Does any one know what it takes to support 38, 000, 000 (thats 38 million) people (thats an entire country)??
Who pay nothing for that support.

We all know Wikipedia is Solid truth..

http://tinyurl.com/7tvh8k

Methods used by the government for estimating the population of illegal immigrants typically are grossly under-reported, for political reasons.
Such as the "residual" method described below. Plus it is virtually impossible to keep track of the movements and whereabouts of illegal immigrants. Some "unofficial" estimates go as high as up to well over 70 million illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States. But a more accurate actual figure probably lies somewhere in between.
Such as the over 38 million figure reported here.

EDIT:
I just saw your "Respect the ladies" topic.
As important as it is to keep a level of sustainable fish in the water for our fishing pleasure. It is more important by far to Keep a ratio of Non taxed to taxed citizens..
Angler = Illegals = non tax payer
BSP = taxpayer = Money

Once the Angler side is overweight to far, the whole system fails...
No fish left, collapse of a nation...


Good thread by the way, well illustrated and stated...
I C&R all fish (unless they get Gaffed).. :-(






.

[Liteliner]

Man what a great read....

[joe man]

Thanks. I'll read all of it.

Wow... a lot in those links... so, I'll read some of it now some of it later. Very interesting and frightening numbers pertaining to violent crime. I am curious as to what source those numbers can be attributed.

And... that's not sand my head is stuck in ;) ...clearly the illegal immigration issue is not just a problem but a battery of problems...

However, I must still maintain that a big chunk of the stuff that get's made/harvested here and eagerly consumed by real Americans is made/harvested by illegal immigrants... and I really don't think we real Americans are going to be too thrilled to pay five bucks for a head of cabage picket by a genuine, red-blooded, legal American teamster.

I mean, if real Americans could hire other real Americans to do the dirty work, why wouldn't they? Greed? And who's really beeing greedy here? Everyone can agree that the situation is f***ed but nobody seems to feel they bear even the slightest responsibility in the matter at all. The whole "It's not me/us it's you/them" sentiment is profoundly tiresome. How 'bout we/us/you/them just knock it off? More than of a couple of our major industries are profitable only because some poor suckers are being payed way less than the value of the product of their work AND WE SEEM TO LIKE THAT PART OF THE EQUATION PRETTY DANG WELL. One certain way to solve the illegal immigration problem is to stop making/growing stuff here and let China do it all... unless we can convince a vastly greater number of real Americans to chop broccoli for a six bucks and hour.

CD I had to do a paper on the cost of illegal immigration and also the cost of putting a stop to it as far as prices to consumers was concerned and there would be very little increase. The main cost for produce that is bought at the store is not the cost of the labor pool but rather the cost of transportation, fuel, processing, canning, energy, and crop fertilizers/ insecticides. The benefits of removing a largely non tax paying work force in favor of legal workers who will pay taxes is huge. Illegal immigrants do collect wellfare, SSI, WIC, and also add the need for more roads, police officers, schools, teachers, judges, courts, sanitation control facilities/ emploiees, prision gaurds, and in general a bigger government. Illegal immigrants in jails makes up a much larger % of prision population than they make up of the general population. Many are repeat offenders and most are in for crimes other than violating immigration law. The low wages that are given to illegals has not helped the average citizen because it has served to drive down the wages of citizens working in industeries that have a large percent of illegal workers. This verified by looking at the dept of labor annual reports (pay close attention to the stagnation of construction worker, services workers and ag workers wages in states such as Tx., Ca., NC., NM., and NY). I have done the reasearch through the Dept. of Labor, Dept. of Corrections, Dept of Justice, PEW research center and countless other reputable sources. I do not count of FOX, CNN, NBC, CBS, or any other talking head because they mostly work for a union that has a political agenda.

[PUDD MASTER BAITER]

I remember in the late 60's ,and early 70s construction booms. All the union carpenters. Dry wallers,roofers. Plummers, and so on made top dollar because they had a skill. After that time, a certain so called great president decided to go on a quest to destroy all unions,so his rich ,and wealthy buddys could pay lower wages ,and no benifits. The jobs offered to unskilled aliens were just that, unskilled,they did the low paying things like migrent workers do. Land scaping,produce harvesting and general manuel labor. Ever since the collapes of the unions . These greedy rich ,and wealthy empoyers, basicly stared paying such low wages ,you saw the influx of more, and more illegals,which to them was good money.blame the few entiltled so called good rich buissness men ,for this whole problem.all those skilled labor jobs were back breaking work. When you get the wages down that low, and offer no benifits who is going to bust there a@@@s. The damage has been done ,and not to offend any of my la raza brothers. I come from a family of migrent workers ,3 generations ago.the illegals now performing these skilled jobs, have learned to pass it on ,to there now legal status children, who are citizens. Training is the key, and fair wages which was the norm when unions had control.offered appreticeship programs,back in the day.i agree we have to do something about this problem,but blaming a certain race is not fair .blame the wealthy few who caused this. They just coudnt stand the fact a skilled person should make a good living ..just my thoughts ...mike the pmb....

[BrownTrout]

take the bird feeder away!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaklEq36_dk

[James343]

take the bird feeder away!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaklEq36_dk


Love that video!

[City Dad]

take the bird feeder away!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaklEq36_dk

I wonder if that guy realizes who made his shirt.:ROFL:

and one more thing. I notice this guy wants thing to go back to "the way they were before"... but before what? and how far back is he thinkin' we should take it? Ten years? Fifteen? Fifty? Back "before" segregation was out-lawed? Or maybe back "before" we stopped pilloring people for public profanity?:ROFL:

Way I see it, going backwards is, well, backwards. What does not adapt and evolve is doomed to extinction... ;)

I'd take down my bird feeder if it attracted that guy.

[PUDD MASTER BAITER]

Now thats some funny ****. Just like i stated ,i wonder when his family immigrated from the old country, and what kind of crappy job ,did his family have to do when being called, and treated like this clown wants, immigrents treated. He would still be in the old country. Thats what im talking about....