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View Full Version : Should we have a cattle boat rating system?



FishingOC
06-02-2007, 10:56 AM
I recently went out on a cattle boat for squiding and the captain was terrible. I was on the newport landing twilight. DONT GO ON NEWPORT LANDING!!

I'm sure there are other people who have also had bad experiences with certain landings.

I am also sure that many other guys have had excellent experience on certain landings.

therefore I propose a cattle boat rating system to show that we as sport anglers can not be conned by their misinformation on fish report and bad business practices of these cattle boats.

Whos with me?

we would need the support of the web master of this board to?

fisherman 57????

rusty6
06-02-2007, 11:31 AM
i vote yes because there are many people on here who havent been out on any boat who look around for advice on what boats are good and which arent and might find it helpful that they can find a rating of all the boats.

ThemBastards
06-02-2007, 04:51 PM
I also agree. While no amount of reporting, or ranking will ever guarantee a great trip- it cant hurt. I have had good experiences and horrible experiences on the three major OC area landings.

I do think having a forum that will report the actual fish counts can eventually make them check there ways. I voiced my opinion on the bogus fish counts post as CoronaCatKiller.

Re8elmonk0341
06-02-2007, 05:04 PM
I concur!!!

hakaveli
06-02-2007, 05:09 PM
agree. To make sure people dont go through the same experience as others

Brad100
06-02-2007, 08:50 PM
Looks like I'm in the minority here... but, consider this. Unless the board has some way to limit the votes (i.e., one person, one vote), there's no way to see if the opinions are stacked. Also, people connected with the various boats will join fnn just to vote for their buddies... etc, etc. I really don't see any way to verify the integrity of the polls. Just a thought.

Fish Dog
06-02-2007, 10:27 PM
Looks like I'm in the minority here... but, consider this. Unless the board has some way to limit the votes (i.e., one person, one vote), there's no way to see if the opinions are stacked. Also, people connected with the various boats will join fnn just to vote for their buddies... etc, etc. I really don't see any way to verify the integrity of the polls. Just a thought.

I'm thinking the same here...I think if you have a good experience on a boat post a report! If you have a bad experience on a boat, post a report! If you start seeing mostly good or bad reports about a particular boat then you'll know. I know this will take a little effort, since you'll actually have to read the reports, but I think that's better then some skewed rating system.

JapanRon
06-02-2007, 11:12 PM
Hi FishingOC,

You may know .... I'm a big moo-moo advocate. I have ridden them for over 40 years .... worldwide.

The reason I voted NO on a rating system is .........

In the Main:
Too many variables. Skippers, Crew, Owners Demands, Season, Office personnel and their attitudes, etc. can be different on any given trip and 1 trip's experience should not represent that boats rating.

Also:
Some hold a grudge against a boat and or landing and would never give straightforward ratings. People could just lie.

In the End:
Such a board would be a continual hassle for the administrator as emotions run high on many moo-moo issues and from an advertising income standpoint ....

I believe honest, straight-forward reporting of the facts will eventually weed out the stinkers be they bad or lazy skippers, bad crews, dishonest landings and or all of the above.

It's interesting that a good number of negative reports don't specifically mention stuff like not enough rod holders, narrow passage at rails, lousy galley space, wet boat .... those thigs that are specific to the boat itself. Most don't have a sqwak about the boat itself so why do so many say .... I'll never ride that boat again! huh?

I understand your feeling that we should be able to trade information on fishing trips good or bad. Main problem is that a fishing trip is just that .... a single, unique trip with its own variables.

JapanRon

ThemBastards
06-03-2007, 11:20 AM
The system would not be perfect but lets say the Freelance 3/4 day trip gets 5 straight weeks of bad reviews you better believe the owner/GM of the boat is gonna look to fix any problems that they can- which is good for us.

rusty6
06-03-2007, 04:27 PM
what we could do is when people go out on a moo-moo, in their report, give a number, 1-10 and average it. that way you can tell if on average a boat is good or a boat is not good. simple and effective

lubemanone
06-03-2007, 05:07 PM
I think this is a great idea!
Has anyone seen how the magazine consumer reports rate products with the type spread sheet format. Also it is true if there was a comprehensive list of categories (not just the fish count) of excellent-great-good-fair-bad-terrible.
This would actually weed out the good the bad and the ugly! As far as holding grudges or false reporting or bad mouthing a boat & crew because of personnel vendettas.Well in our free enterprise capitalist society all I have to say is "Water always finds its own level".

Fisherman57
06-03-2007, 05:34 PM
The reason I voted NO on a rating system is .........

Too many variables. Skippers, Crew, Owners Demands, Season, Office personnel and their attitudes, etc. can be different on any given trip and 1 trip's experience should not represent that boats rating.

Such a board would be a continual hassle for the administrator as emotions run high on many moo-moo issues and from an advertising income standpoint ....

I believe honest, straight-forward reporting of the facts will eventually weed out the stinkers be they bad or lazy skippers, bad crews, dishonest landings and or all of the above.

It's interesting that a good number of negative reports don't specifically mention stuff like not enough rod holders, narrow passage at rails, lousy galley space, wet boat .... those thigs that are specific to the boat itself. Most don't have a sqwak about the boat itself so why do so many say .... I'll never ride that boat again! huh?

I understand your feeling that we should be able to trade information on fishing trips good or bad. Main problem is that a fishing trip is just that .... a single, unique trip with its own variables.

JapanRon

I agree with JR. Well said Ron.

I think the current format of this forum allows individuals to comment on each and every experience they have while aboard. It also allows for a response by those in the industry or better yet, those who actually work aboard the specific vessel.

I think your heart is in the right place "FishingOC", but my personal opinion is that the board already allows members to address this issue, just in a different format than you are suggesting.

Thanks for posting it, great topic!


57

FishingOC
06-03-2007, 08:04 PM
I understand the concern and also all the different variable’s that may come into play.

How about dividing it up in to a forum where you can put your report on there and let every one read and have them make their own decisions?

Have a section named “cattle boat reports� and then divide it in to regions just like sport fishing report does. Los Angeles county, Orange county, San Diego County….etc…

Then under each subsection you divide it in to landings and also 1/2 , ¾, overnight trip…etc…

Each person may choose to post their reports whether good or bad. This way it is not as a point system but with people’s input on a particular day on a particular boat.

It's no different then the board we have now, just more subsections….???

If there is no rating system or no forum for people to post on a particular boat, the only people that really loose out are the sport anglers. Since sport anglers who go on cattle boats are at the cattle boats mercy in a sense. We have to take at face value their fish report, whether true or fabricated.

The system on this forum now is good but like with everything else there is always room for improvement.

I understand that people can still post in this forum but its all jumbled up in to one single section. "socal saltwater report".

In addition the owner/moderator (fisherman57) can put a sticky that identifies the size, age, type of each boat…etc…

Therefore at least each angler has a free choice in the information they receive in the forum. I for one rather be well informed then misinform, since I am only able to take the fish reports at face value with out the ability to verify the truth.

I know for a fact that some cattle boats tell you not to throw away any fish (small reds) when you land them on the boat because their more interested in their fish count/economics of their business. In other words the more fish they put in the report the more anglers they are more likely to lure on to their boat.

Let get this right...hmm...I pay to go on a cattle boat to have a deck hand which i tip if i like tell me not to throw small fish back because they need it for the count. and if you fillet the fish, there is only a mouth full of fish. thats not a boat i want to go on.

All you have to do with bottom fish to my knowledge is to use a pin and polk their air blander and in time they sink back down.

I rather release a small fish that has no size limit and let it grow big so i can fish it another day. instead of a deck hand telling me to not throw it back in the water because they need/want the fish count.

Yes, yes, to time consuming to put a pin hole the darn thing. Buts it my fish! I paid to fish and not to have some one make my decisions for me.

Is there something wrong with that picture?


But is that fair to us, you or me? As to my opinion its not, its more like caveat emptor/buyer beware. I try to be well informed in choosing a cattle boat based solely on their reports and the landings know that, so that’s how they do business.

I’m not dogging all cattle boats. There are some excellent cattle boats out there and some excellent captains that actually work hard at their job to look for fish and to help the anglers land fish. But on the flip side you and I know that the bottom line is the fish count. That the basis of the business.

Here’s an example:

Cattle boat A charges $50 for ¾ and reports 100 barracuda with 30 anglers (but to fish clean each fish it is $5.00 a pop, but you don’t know that until you’re on it the next day)

Cattle boat B charges $50 for ¾ and reports 50 barracuda with 20 anglers (they charge only .75 to clean a fish but you don’t know that until your on the boat)

Which boat you going on?

I’m going on A cattle boat. Then when I go on the board the next day to post my report I find out some one was on the same boat the previous day and they said the fish count was bogus.

Who looses out?

I/we loose out because I/we based my/our decision solely on the fish count.

I did my best in choosing a boat based solely on the fish count, which was bogus (I’m only using this as an example based on a past report that was recently posted in regards to the bogus report).

zZaNg
06-03-2007, 08:35 PM
Well to do what you are saying atm, Dana (no matter which way he decides to do it.), to make the sub sections he would have to add more sites on to the board. and for whatever reason (already posted what reason) he is not agreeing to this, has to have a reasonable explanation. could be anything, shouldnt try to change his first answer on this question.

FishingOC
06-03-2007, 09:15 PM
Hi FishingOC,

You may know .... I'm a big moo-moo advocate. I have ridden them for over 40 years .... worldwide.

Yes JapanRon, I have read many if not all of your moo moo reports, you’re a kind and generous reporter. Great info you provide to this forum and also an asset.


The reason I voted NO on a rating system is .........

In the Main:
Too many variables. Skippers, Crew, Owners Demands, Season, Office personnel and their attitudes, etc. can be different on any given trip and 1 trip's experience should not represent that boats rating.

But that is part of doing any business, there will and always be many different variables for any type of business. That the duty of the captain to keep the ship in tip top shape and also to keep their crew on their toes.

Is like buying goods from Shimano. Why do I buys Shimano fishing reels? Because I know they have an excellent customer service. Cattle boats shouldn’t be any different. There are some cattle boats with superb customer service and there are some that are so so and then you have the bottom of the bunch.

“attitudes� ? Well that is part of business, bad attitudes toward clients/customers = unhappy customer/angler.

Good attitude towards clients/anglers = happy returning customer/angler.

Its part of doing any business.

I’m not inferring that one trip should make a person decision to end all. But a collective reports on a particular boat. So that each individual has an opportunity to make their own well inform decision and not based solely on a fish count (which is all we have) besides the post on some boards at this cite.



Also:
Some hold a grudge against a boat and or landing and would never give straightforward ratings. People could just lie.

I agree, but the post will most likely show that there is a grudge by the language that people tend to express.

Also the likely hood of that person going on the same boat is unlikely. Its possible but less probable then not they will again venture on to that particular landing or boat.
In addition, if the person post negative report at least there is a report of some kind for others to judge, rather then just basing their choices on a fish count.



People could just lie.

That’s exactly my point in a certain way. As in the example of the previous post in regards to Davies locker fish report. Weren’t people who read the fish report lied to?




In the End:
Such a board would be a continual hassle for the administrator as emotions run high on many moo-moo issues and from an advertising income standpoint ....


I would assume that there is already a continuing hassle for the administer of any board to monitor the post due to people emotions. Even with a separate section for moo moo reports, the job of the moderator is never done. Again, that is the nature of the beast in this business.



I believe honest, straight-forward reporting of the facts will eventually weed out the stinkers be they bad or lazy skippers, bad crews, dishonest landings and or all of the above.

I concur, an honest straight-forward reporting of the facts will enventually wee out the stinkers…

But there are better ways to do this instead of a general fish report category. Not to say that it is not effective. But again like with other things there are always better ways.
Daiwa thinks less parts is better, shimano thinks more parts are better.




It's interesting that a good number of negative reports don't specifically mention stuff like not enough rod holders, narrow passage at rails, lousy galley space, wet boat .... those thigs that are specific to the boat itself. Most don't have a sqwak about the boat itself so why do so many say .... I'll never ride that boat again! huh?

Not really sure, maybe cause most are more interested in catching fish then the details of the voyage.





I understand your feeling that we should be able to trade information on fishing trips good or bad. Main problem is that a fishing trip is just that .... a single, unique trip with its own variables.

JapanRon

Yes, trade information on fishing trips good or bad. But cant we do it in a more organize fashion? Whether it be a point system or a specific forum for a specific boat or captain or landing….

Yes a fishing trip is just a fishing trip and a unique for each individual with its own variables. But I for one would like to be well informed when making one.

I’m not trying to change yours (JapanRon), fisherman57 or any ones minds about this topic. I’m more concerned about voicing my opinion because I’m sure what I’m concerned about, others have the same concern.

And to my knowledge there hasn’t been any other method of organizing this. Therefore the abuse if any will continue and the sport angler will be the ones at the mercy of the cattle boats fish counts.

Again,

Cattle boat A reports 100 barracuda, 30 sheaphead, 2 halibut, 10 lingcod

Cattle boat B reports 50 barracuda, 3 halfmoon, 1 black sea bass (release).


Take it at face value. Which boat you going on?

JapanRon
06-04-2007, 02:51 PM
Hi again FishingOC,

For myself ..... I think we agree to agree on the importance of providing good intel on moo-moo we ourselves ride.

Given the choice:

Cattle boat A reports 100 barracuda, 30 sheaphead, 2 halibut, 10 lingcod
or
Cattle boat B reports 50 barracuda, 3 halfmoon, 1 black sea bass (release).

I withold making a choice 'at face value' as 1 basic element I consider important in scanning fish counts is missing. Number of anglers.

If boat A had 60 anglers and 25 percent of the anglers caught 90% of the fish (for cuda say ..... in 30 minutes time) then ....

If boat B had 5 anglers one would assume everyone got limits, quit fishing for cuda and additionally fished for ....

I am a rare bird as I don't care what the fish counts are on a boat that I've decided to take on a trip. Expectations ...... yes ...... but only after putting together 4 or 5 elements I consider more important than the count. And there again .... the ugly head of 'variables' again rises out of the depths! :)

If your esteemed self and others choose to put a numerical value in a trip report, I have no reason to object. And .... additionally ... I might even look more carefully at the points that supported your arrival at the number!

Appreciate all the time and effort required in making your position well understood.

thanks

JapanRon

landlocked
06-05-2007, 12:54 PM
I think some way to clearly be able to get this info would be a good thing. Maybe just include anglers, types of fish, how many and cost to clean. I lived in So. Cal my whole life until last 14 years. When I come out on vacation, I would like to make the best choice possible. I have to make it count, as I will not get another chance for a couple years. I have found the info on this site after spending several hours looking (which thats ok), but it would be nice to get all the details in one section however its set up. I got my information also by looking at the old board to see what was being caught the previous year at this time. However, if this info wasnt added, its still a great and informative board.

valhalla_1_2000
06-05-2007, 06:11 PM
In my experience, you get what you pay for.