Saltwater Regulations that get ya

[HESBROS]

Wanted to start a thread regarding Saltwater Regulations that are often over looked and maybe help save some of the newer saltwater fisher people some citations. I am not a pro, but I have read the regulations, and I have also seen some posts regarding citations for regfs that folks did not even know existed. If this is not going to be a bennefit, then just scrap it. Like I said, I am no saint, but I have learned that there are reg that exist that I did not know existed until I read about or knew someone that has been cited.

Eddie & Rich
"Hesbros"

[HESBROS]

Here I will start, this seems to be a common area that some overlook. There are specific requirements such as length of fillets and skin patches for some species when it come to filleting fish on the water. Be sure to check out the section regarding California Halibut.

27.65. Filleting of Fish on Vessels.
(a) Definition of Fillet: For the purpose of this section a fill et is the flesh from one side
of a fish extending from the head to the tail which has been removed from the body (head,
tail and backbone) in a single continuous piece.
(b) Fish That May be Filleted: No person shall fillet on any boat or bring ashore as fillets
any fish, except in accordance with the following requirements:
(1) Kelp bass, sand bass, spotted bass, and ocean whitefish: All fillets shall be a
minimum of six and one-half inches in length. Each fillet shall bear intact a one-inch square
patch of skin.
(2) Barracuda: Fillets must be a minimum of 17 inches in length. Each fillet shall bear
intact a one-inch square patch of silver skin.
(3) Lingcod. Lingcod fillets must be a minimum of 16 inches in length. Each fillet shall
bear intact a one-inch square patch of skin. The minimum size and minimum fillet size for
lingcod may be changed during the year or in-season by the department under the authority
of sub-section 27.20(e). The department will provide a news release notifying the public 10
calendar days in advance of a change to the minimum size and minimum fillet size for lingcod
made under the authority of sub-section 27.20(e). Anglers and divers are advised to check
the current rules before fishing. The latest fishing rules may be found on the department’s
website at: www.dfg.ca.gov/marine (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine), or by calling (831) 649-2801 for recorded information,
or by contacting a department office.
(4) White seabass: Fillets must be a minimum of 19 inches in length. Each fillet shall
bear intact a one-inch square patch of silver skin.
(5) Pacific bonito: No more than 10 fillets of any length may be possessed. All bonito
fillets possessed shall be considered a part of the allowable undersized tolerance of five
bonito per day less than 24 inches fork length or weighing less than five pounds as provided
in Section 28.32 of these regulations. All fillets shall bear intact a one-inch square patch
of skin.
(6) California halibut taken from or possessed aboard a vessel south of Point Arena
(Mendocino County): Fillets must be a minimum of 16 and three-quarter inches in length and
shall bear the entire skin intact. A fillet from a California halibut (flesh from one entire side
of the fish with the entire skin intact) may not be cut in half fillets. However, a fillet may be
cut lengthwise in a straight line along the midline of the fillet where the fillet was attached
to the vertebra (backbone) of the fish only if the two pieces of a fillet remain joined along
their midline for a length of at least two inches at one end of the fillet.
(7) Yellowtail: Fillets must be a minimum of 17 inches in length, except not more than
10 fillets may be less than 17 inches. Each fillet shall bear intact a one-inch square patch
of skin.
(8) Rockfish: Fillets must have the entire skin attached. Bocaccio fillets must be a minimum
of five inches in length. The minimum size and minimum fillet size for rockfish may be
changed during the year or in-season by the department under the authority of sub-section
27.20(e). The department will provide a news release notifying the public 10 calendar days
in advance of a change to the minimum size and minimum fillet size for rockfish made under
the authority of sub-section 27.20(e). Anglers and divers are advised to check the current
rules before fishing. The latest fishing rules may be found on the department’s website
at: www.dfg.ca.gov/marine (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine), or by calling (831) 649-2801 for recorded information, or by
contacting a department office.
39
For up-to-date groundfish regulation information, call the DFG Groundfish Hotline at (831) 649-2801
For up-to-date ocean salmon regulation information, call the DFG Ocean Salmon Hotline at (707) 576-3429
(9) California scorpionfish (commonly termed “sculpin”): Fillets must be a minimum of
5 inches. Each fillet shall bear intact a one-inch square patch of skin. The minimum size and
minimum fillet size for California scorpionfish may be changed during the year or in-season by
the department under the authority of sub-section 27.20(e). The department will provide a news
release notifying the public 10 calendar days in advance of a change to the minimum size and
minimum fillet size for California scorpionfish made under the authority of sub-section 27.20(e).
Anglers and divers are advised to check the current rules before fishing. The latest fishing rules
may be found on the department’s website at: www.dfg.ca.gov/marine (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine), or by calling (831) 649-
2801 for recorded information, or by contacting a department office.
(10) All other species except those listed in sub-section (c) of this section: Each fillet shall
bear intact a one-inch square patch of skin. The fillets may be of any size.
(c) Fish That May Not be Filleted: No person shall fillet on any boat or bring ashore as fillets
the following fish: cabezon, greenlings of the genus Hexagrammos, salmon, striped bass,
sturgeon, and any species of flatfish, except California halibut may be filleted or brought ashore
as fillets south of Point Arena (Mendocino County).

[HESBROS]

With more and more folks starting to Hoop, thought I would post a pic of how to properly measure a lobster.

[chris]

good info on fillets i've noticed there isn't cleaning facilities at the launch in dana or newport

[SanDimasLMB]

The filleting regulation is a good one to post.


Last year during the rockfish season, the previous regulations was a 1 inch square patch of skin was needed to be intact connected to the fish for identification purposes. Some places got caught, but some didn't. One place is Redondo Sportfishing, and more specifically, the Spitfire. They are probably one of the best SoCal boat crews on the West Coast.



So just remember, just like prices in a store or restaurant, "subject to change daily"

[ghetto dad]

that was cool of you to post that Hesbros..for those that didnt know..and for those who dont know, the length of the fillet determines whether or not the fish was legal when killed. So be VERY CAREFUL when filleting a barely legal fish, cut WAY UP towards the head. No room for error on the barely legals guys. The funny one to me is that there is no size limit on whitefish (at least there didnt use to be), but the filets still have to be 6 and 1/2 " (if im correct). Thanks again brother...

GD

[twin22s]

i know most of us know this one but alot of ppl need to pratice this rule. especialy when fishing unfamilar waters.
If you don't know what it is DON'T KEEP IT!!

i've released more fish than i can count just because i wasn't sure what it was or didn't know the regs on it, only to research it when i got home to find out that it was legal.
most important thing to remember is that its your own responsability to know the limits and regs of the fish your going after. so while your getting your tackle together take a break and look up the regs of a few of the fish commonly caught where you'll be fishing.

[HESBROS]

Thats a very good point Twin22s. We too have released many fish because we were not sure what they were. Not only should you do this because of regulations, but some fish could be harmful. We have all seen post's that show a picture of someone asking what kind of fish they caught, and they are juvenile wsb, or bsb, or something protected, and then the bashing comes. I have seen pics of Mantis Shrimp being held and people asking what they were, not knowing how lucky they are to not be missing a finger.

[Nhatster]

That's some good info. thanks! :cool:

[IslandBoi]

I just don't fillet anything until I get home ...... I guess this is why the deckhands always get pissed at me (I know that's how they make there money) but they gotta understand

We Islanders, EAT EVERYTHING !!!! especially my inlaws..... so I keep my fish nice and intact....

[Greg Madrigal]

Alright, so I'm just gonna say, if u catch a hali, Just save it till you get home. Ever read the reg on the fillets?! It's quite rediculous. Err on the safe side and leave it intact.


GM<><

[pierrebear]

It's better to be safe than sorry- There has been a few times that I've release some huge cabazon (5lbs plus) only to find out it was legal to take them at that time. Bummer man.

[fish_sauce]

Has anyone ever bothered to measure their catches more than once? Meaning that the first measurement is made immediately after landing the fish and the final measurement made after the fish has died...you will notice that most of the time the fish will undergo shrinkage after it dies...depending on what type of fish, usually there will be about a 1/4'' to 1 1/2'' discrepancy from the two measurements.

from what i know, after a fish dies, the muscles tense up and it collapses the back bone of the fish, causing it to shrink in length. What does this mean? It means that your 22'' keeper halibut may not measure 22'' after you've had it sitting out for a while. In fact, i know someone who has been cited by the DFG for keeping a halibut that measured 21 1/2''. His fish was clearly over 22'' at the time landing it...but he couldn't convince the DFG officials that the shrinkage occured within the two to three hour fishing period that he was out in the water...he eventually cleared up the citation in court by providing information that proves that this occurence is possible and happens very often.

Now, i am by no means suggesting that you should all throw back your minimaly/barely-legal catch or in any way trying to impose any predisposition on C&R, because that topic has always led to heated meaningless debates. What i do suggest, is that if you have a minimaly-legal fish and you do decide to keep it...just be aware that this could happen. Maybe a quick photo of the fish immediatly after landing--with a measurment tape to indicate the lenght may not be a bad idea to avoid any possible trouble you may run into with the law for supposedly keeping an undersized fish.

[margrave13]

Good call on the fillet regs. I've worked boats in Nocal for about 13 years, and our bread and butter is rockcod. Some fish need only the 1 inch patch, some need the entire thing attached. I just got into the habit of leaving the entire skin attached(no, not just "slabbing" them) so neither me nor my customers are caught with an illegal fillet. When the regs changed a few years ago, DFG started sending undercover wardens on the boats up here. (Monterey Bay, BTW)
No one here in Santa Cruz got busted, as we always kept the skin on. However, I heard that a few boats in Monterey got caught completely skinning fillets. As for flatfish? I just wait until we get back to the dock.

[Robert trout hunter]

is 22" actual legal halibuit size?

[TOXIC OPIE]

Thanks for the info fish sauce never knew about the shrinkidge of some fish will take photo of fish all the time now

[gavin310]

is 22" actual legal halibuit size?

In California it is.

[Nessie Hunter]

In California it is.

From CLOSED jaw to tip of tail...


from what i know, after a fish dies, the muscles tense up and it collapses the back bone of the fish, causing it to shrink in length.

Im no Forensic MD, but from what I know all muscle tissue relaxes upon death....

Any shrinkage is probably from dehydration....
Which can be measurable on a hot day after several hrs...


.

[fishrookie]

I just don't fillet anything until I get home ...... I guess this is why the deckhands always get pissed at me (I know that's how they make there money) but they gotta understand

We Islanders, EAT EVERYTHING !!!! especially my inlaws..... so I keep my fish nice and intact....

you ain't kidding. i went with a gang of Samoans to Catalina, that worked for my dad when i was kid. those guys were a trip! they ate what ever they were catching and when that ran out they started eating the bait right out of tank like snacks and to piss the captain off. they were a great bunch of guys had me laughing all day long.
sorry for a high jack

[flytyingreloader]

Ladies and gents--

One question I have concerning saltwater regulations that I'm either missing in the reg texts or is unaddressed directly--is there a limit on number or lines/rods, or upon number or type of hooks on a given line or lines that an angler can use at one time? I'm not looking to mount a snagging rig, just want to fish legally and not cause myself problems or cause work for the wardens.

Additionally, are these line/hook regs specific to a species of fish? I don't bottom-fish very much, but might try halibut. Mostly I'm about bonito and yellowtail, and the basses.

[HESBROS]

Page 51 of the 2009-2010 book. Also check out section "D".....I think many miss this one.

28.65. General. Except as provided in this article, fin fish may be taken only on hook and line or
by hand. Any number of hooks and lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays except:
(a) San Francisco and San Pablo bays between the Golden Gate Bridge and the west Carquinez
Bridge, where only one line with not more than three hooks may be used.
(b) On public piers, no person shall use more than two rods and lines, two hand lines, or two
nets, traps or other appliances used to take crabs.
(c) When rockfish (genus Sebastes) or lingcod (Ophiodon elongatus) are aboard or in possession,
where only one line with not more than two hooks may be used pursuant to Sections
28.55 or 28.27, respectively.
(d) No gaff hook shall be used to take or assist in landing any finfish shorter than the minimum
size limit. For the purpose of this section a gaff hook is any hook with or without a handle used
to assist in landing fish or to take fish in such a manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily
in its mouth. No person shall take finfish from any boat or other floating device in ocean
waters without having a landing net in possession or available for immediate use to assist in
landing undersize fish of species having minimum size limits; the opening of any such landing
net shall be not less than eighteen inches in diameter.
(e) North of Point Conception (34°27’00” N. lat.), where only one rod and line may be used by each
angler fishing for salmon, or fishing from any boat or floating device with salmon on board.
(f) Mousetrap gear prohibited: It is unlawful to use, assist in using, or to possess aboard any
vessel, hook-and-line gear commonly termed “mouse traps” constructed of a hook(s) or lure(s),
attached to one end of a line that is attached to a float, or floats at the other end, and that when
fished, is not attached directly to a person or vessel. Possession of such gear aboard a vessel
shall be prima facie evidence that the gear is being used in violation of this regulation.
(g) North of Point Conception to Horse Mountain, Section 27.80(a)(3) applies to each

[flytyingreloader]

Many thanks, Hesbros!

[FISHNCHIPS]

bottom line is,every time you go fishing,you had better read the regs thoroughly or better yet,have your attorney go over them for you.
My fishing buddy and I discovered that we had been breaking the rules unknowingly for who knows how long.
We discovered that if you are trolling for salmon and you fish for rockfish of any kind on the way in,you have to use barbless hooks. Likewise,if you start your morning on rockfish and then troll for salmon,you cannot fish in water over 120 feet deep. I've only broken these rules about 50 times. In my opinion,these are silly regs that while intended to keep someone from bending other rules,will have no impact other than more frustration of the law abiding fisherman.
I was just reading the Oregon regs and you better just hire an attorney to accompany you to keep you out of trouble.

[Odium]

My fridge/freezer is getting pretty full on fish.

My parents manage an asian supermarket. I was thinking of just dropping extra fish I catch off at the market. Are there any rules or regs against this?

[Katnip]

actually no sport caught fish can be sold...didn't stop me.

[drifter57]

i believe the shrinkage would be as a result of rigor mortis, with the muscles tightening up due to the muscles inability to release b/c the lack of excess ATP, or the molecule that helps unlock the muscle chains. I could see the shrinkage happening due the muscle contraction as well as the back-bone being cartilaginous / flexible, and as a result can be susceptible to compression... anyhow.... i digress =)

[twopatch]

How about a net no less then 18"wide on all vessels on the ocean.

[HESBROS]

How about a net no less then 18"wide on all vessels on the ocean.

Thats a good one. As it also applies to float tubers and yakkers as well, not just power boats.


(d) No gaff hook shall be used to take or assist in landing any finfish shorter than the minimum size limit. For the purpose of this section a gaff hook is any hook with or without a handle used to assist in landing fish or to take fish in such a manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily in its mouth. No person shall take finfish from any boat or other floating device in ocean waters without having a landing net in possession or available for immediate use to assist inlanding undersize fish of species having minimum size limits; the opening of any such landing net shall be not less than eighteen inches in diameter.

[Liteweight]

Wanted to start a thread regarding Saltwater Regulations that are often over looked and maybe help save some of the newer saltwater fisher people some citations. I am not a pro, but I have read the regulations, and I have also seen some posts regarding citations for regfs that folks did not even know existed. If this is not going to be a bennefit, then just scrap it. Like I said, I am no saint, but I have learned that there are reg that exist that I did not know existed until I read about or knew someone that has been cited.

Eddie & Rich
"Hesbros"

THIS IS A GREAT IDEA...BUT WHY LIMIT IT TO JUST SALTWATER? So many of us fish both!
FNN ADMINISTRATOR: Maybe should start a section on this???


i know most of us know this one but alot of ppl need to pratice this rule. especialy when fishing unfamilar waters.
If you don't know what it is DON'T KEEP IT!!

i've released more fish than i can count just because i wasn't sure what it was or didn't know the regs on it, only to research it when i got home to find out that it was legal.
most important thing to remember is that its your own responsability to know the limits and regs of the fish your going after. so while your getting your tackle together take a break and look up the regs of a few of the fish commonly caught where you'll be fishing.

Something I live by...has anyone ever seen some of the fines attached to some of these violations? They can be VERY stiff. There was a story in the INYO/MONO Register(?) a few years back about a couple of overlimit poachers that were caught...3 years and $50,000 in fines (if my memory serves correctly). When I was a deckhand, I had many opportunities to chat with Wardens and they were happy to inform me of penalties for violations (I believe so that I could pass along to passengers). Another penalty for some violations is IMMEDIATE CONFISCATION ALL RODS AND REELS!!!


Has anyone ever bothered to measure their catches more than once? Meaning that the first measurement is made immediately after landing the fish and the final measurement made after the fish has died...you will notice that most of the time the fish will undergo shrinkage after it dies...depending on what type of fish, usually there will be about a 1/4'' to 1 1/2'' discrepancy from the two measurements.

from what i know, after a fish dies, the muscles tense up and it collapses the back bone of the fish, causing it to shrink in length. What does this mean? It means that your 22'' keeper halibut may not measure 22'' after you've had it sitting out for a while. In fact, i know someone who has been cited by the DFG for keeping a halibut that measured 21 1/2''. His fish was clearly over 22'' at the time landing it...but he couldn't convince the DFG officials that the shrinkage occured within the two to three hour fishing period that he was out in the water...he eventually cleared up the citation in court by providing information that proves that this occurence is possible and happens very often.

Now, i am by no means suggesting that you should all throw back your minimaly/barely-legal catch or in any way trying to impose any predisposition on C&R, because that topic has always led to heated meaningless debates. What i do suggest, is that if you have a minimaly-legal fish and you do decide to keep it...just be aware that this could happen. Maybe a quick photo of the fish immediatly after landing--with a measurment tape to indicate the lenght may not be a bad idea to avoid any possible trouble you may run into with the law for supposedly keeping an undersized fish.


From CLOSED jaw to tip of tail...



Im no Forensic MD, but from what I know all muscle tissue relaxes upon death....

Any shrinkage is probably from dehydration....
Which can be measurable on a hot day after several hrs...


.

Depending on whole fish or fillet and how long since it was killed.
Partial dehydration or rigor either or will cause a fillet or whole fish to become shorter. That's why deckhands will (or should) water down catch bags during a trip. Whenever I caught a fish and threw it in my bag (or when we moved) I always spilled some water from the bait tank on my bag, it also keeps your fish fresher.


My fridge/freezer is getting pretty full on fish.

My parents manage an asian supermarket. I was thinking of just dropping extra fish I catch off at the market. Are there any rules or regs against this?

You must posess a valid commercial license in order to sell any catch. That's why DFG will usually be down in Diego when the boats come in during the summer. I've seen guys get off the boat and people try to get them to sell their catch. During Tuna season there is a HIGH demand for Bluefin. Anyone have an idea of how much $ per lb. for a Bluefin in Japan? (give you a hint...3 figures, 4-5 for a whole fish in the Commercial market). I've also seen guys get ticketed when caught. They will usually ask if the Warden knows how much the ticket will be...I've actually seen a guy come to tears when informed.
Although because of lax enforement, FDA requires paper trail on all meat, poultry and fish sales (I may be para-phrasing, I'm not quite sure about this to some extent. I remember something about this when I managed a grocery store. Makes sense though if you think about it. Contamination, disease etc for FDA to track origin).

HESBRO: I also think there's a specific distance from shore where you can't clean your fish...I believe it's within 1 mile from shore.
LW

[smokehound]

Even with a commercial license, certain fish are off limits for sale, such as california corbina, yellowfin croaker, white seabass, all three species of Paralabrax (kelp bass and kin), actually i think all our croakers are off-limits. Dunno about california halibut. but I have a feeling they are protected in ca.

[smokehound]

Heres one for surf fishing that you HAVE to know: SandCrabs: Limit- 50

Ive seen people get ticketed for overlimits of sandcrabs. Sometimes the people have buckets filled to the brim with them. I spend several hours out on the water, and ive never really needed 50 crabs to begin with. Anyone with such a gross overlimit is a real bastard.

Thats just greedy.

[TUNAVIC]

I've fished locally So Cal, for about 40yrs plus, the last 20yrs or more on my own boats. When I catch a fish I want to keep, I make sure its a couple of inch's oversized as far as regs go. If is something that I feel is going to be more scrutinized by the DFG, ie, white seabass, halibut,ect, I may fillet but I always keep the carcass,the rest like, calicos, sculpin,rockfish,barries,ect, I just slab em, that means I just fillet each side and leave all the skin on and ribcage in, when i'm ready to consume, I just finish the cleaning, very easy.
The only reason I suggest these things is, in all the years I've been fishing, and have been checked, boarded ect by dfg I have never rec a cititation.
Cya :LOL:Tuna Vic<((((<

[copeyboy]

Not sure if this would go in here, but I wanted to ask about surf fishing when swimmers are around. Is this legal? I'm not looking to snag some kid or anything, but I was wondering what to do if people come out and begin swimming in my fishing area after I've already been there. Can I keep on fishing or do I need to pull up lines? I want to fish sand worm artificials with my daughter, but she doesn't need to get up when I normally do to go fishing. Thanks for any help here.

[smokehound]

Normally, i just casually warn people where I casted, and to stay clear.

The surf isnt really the best place to bait&wait anyway.

[LGHT]

This is somewhat related to fishing, but not fishing directly. I enjoy eating shellfish as well and while fishing a long time ago I recall harvesting a few handful of muscles from the rocks out in Santa Monica / Malibu area. I basically I'm trying to find a spot where I can legally take muscles for consumption in the OC. With all the MLPA's and the recent closing of Laguna Beach I have been unable to find a spot that is 1. Legal and 2. has an abundance of them that can be easily taken.

I actually called the DFG and 1 lady gave me a few spots, but looking at the MLPA's 1 more restrictive zone overlaps another zone and when that happens your suppose to go with the more restrictive zone. So I call back speak to someone in the regulations department after being transferred 5 times and he confirmed that it was in fact a no take zone. My questions to him was well " ifthe previous warden said I could and I got caught wouldn't that be the DFG's fault" he quickly gave me a snide comment and said if I did take anything illegally the ticket was on me regardless of what I supposedly heard. I gave him the name of the warden and he got all snippy and then quickly said you can't take muscles in orange county at all and quickly hung up. Seems like he is a bit upset that his co-worker couldn't decipher the cryptic code of what is and isn't legal to take where in the OC like most of it's residents.

So I'm back to square 1 is there anywhere in the OC where you can legally harvest muscles at all?

[DMS]

Alright, so I'm just gonna say, if u catch a hali, Just save it till you get home. Ever read the reg on the fillets?! It's quite rediculous. Err on the safe side and leave it intact.


GM<><

Exactly, I'm a lawyer and just read it 3 times and still can't figure out what they want or don't want us to do with a flattie.

[DockRat]

Exactly, I'm a lawyer and just read it 3 times and still can't figure out what they want or don't want us to do with a flattie.
You can still fillet them as if your going to 1/4 them but leave a section connected so you end up with 2 fillets not 4. The finished fillet will look like a butterfly.

Or fillet it as seen in this video. 4 fillets is NOT legal from 1 halibut.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLp_VaH03-U

[DockRat]

As of March 1st 2013 Sand Bass, Calico Bass and Spotted Bay Bass min size limit is now 14".
Fillets must be 7 1/2" with a 1" min patch of skin.